I've been performing at various festivals for the past six years or so. But I don't have an act. I don't have a specific character. Ladies and gentlemen, I am a cast actor.
At several of the faires I've done, there has been a specific plot shown through various shows through out the day, introduced at opening gate and continued through three or four more shows throughout the day, with street improv to flesh out the story and tell people who missed the shows what's going on. So here's my question- do you care about the plot? Do you show up at opening gate and follow through to the end of the day, seeing how everything wraps up?
Just wondering...
I've been known to follow it, to some extent. Though, uh, I often forget (save for some of the "bigger" bits that happen on stage) and then find myself pleasantly surprised when I run into something referring to it while traveling in the streets. ;)
I don't think that general patrons know that there is a story line to the show, even though they may follow the fight scenarios throughout the day.
They may know a bit about it due to character interaction (The King of Spain is here to try to marry the Queen!) but I think the people who follow it from begining to end are few and far between.
To me, it's the best part of the faire. It puts the story in a specific real time, it gives real character to the actual historic personages, and it gives the actors a chance to really develop their character work (I too am a character actor in several faires)
Yes, I know there are many folks who couldn't care less. So what? there are others who don't care about the music, or the shopping, or the magic acts or the children's centers... you don't need to eliminate one part of the whole just because not every person cares for it...
I just want it to be as accurate as possible historically, so you don't misinform people about history (That said, if it's a 'fantasy faire' it makes no difference: I'm talking about you don't make up a secret marriage for Queen Elizabeth, or such that will misinform the public who watch "the Tudors" and think they are getting accurate facts...)
Quote from: Margaret on August 04, 2009, 06:08:05 AM
I don't think that general patrons know that there is a story line to the show, even though they may follow the fight scenarios throughout the day.
It all depends on how it is presented. My company, Knights of Iron, pretty much defined this type of entertainment over the last 10 years. What we have found is:
#1 use a story line that people are already familiar with, be it Robin Hood, Musketeers, King Arthur, or whatever, it is MUCH easier for people to grasp and follow a storyline that they at least have a passing knowledge of, rather than trying to educate on character AND plot all at once. This year at MiRF we are doing Robin Hood. When I introduce myself as "The Sheriff of Nottingham" not much else needs to be said. They KNOW Robin Hood will be there, and they know the basis of the story. If you are pitting "Lord William of Sussex" against "Sir Marcus of Trinoveer", ummm, WHO THE HELL ARE THESE GUYS? Much harder sell.
# 2 Make it "good guys in white hats, bad guys in black hats", meaning EASY for the audience to differentiate the characters.
# 3 Provide visual appeal. Make it interesting to look at. When we did The Legend of King Arthur we abandoned the idea of good -vs- evil knights as that put everyone in surcoats and armor, and they all looked the same. BORING. So we decided to have the Arthur's knights (who were all dressed similarly, and looked like a team) fight against Mordred's "Finest Warriors Money Could Buy" which included a Saracen, a Ninja, an Amazon, and a Pirate. Visual appeal. Also, and I can't emphasize this enough PRETTY SELLS. If your cast is attractive, expect better results. If they are all fat, out of shape, and missing more teeth than they have, you have an uphill fight. Costuming must match as well. My Musketeers each had 2 complete Musketeer costumes, and multiple wigs so they could appear "perfect" throughout the day. people didn't pay to see the wet, bedraggled musketeers. They want to see the ones that stepped off a movie screen. This is NOT cheap. Each of my musketeer costumes was over $3000.
# 4 Hook the kids into the story. We do this by distributing favors to the children from all of the "good guy" characters. The favor must reflect something of the character giving them out. Robin Hood gave out little arrows on pins. The Musketeers had Fleur de Lis on pin backs. The more you can get the children involved in the story, the more they will drag their parents. Interaction is key. Your characters have to work the streets, and work them hard. The more people you interact with, the higher your numbers will be.
#5 Do NOT count on the program to tell your audience where you will be. We print cards that have show times, locations, and descriptions. On the back they have a map with locations noted and times. Give these out.
#6 Set up every scene so it leads into the next one. Cliffhangers are great. People want to find out what happens, and you need to make them want that.
#7 on that note, make the audience CARE about the characters. To make your heroes more heroic, make your villains awful. The more it looks like the good guys cannot win, the more the audience will love it when they do. This is lifted right from Rocky. Rocky couldn't win. He didn't stand a chance. But, somehow, against all odds, he found the heart to be a champion. If your characters do that, your audience will respond.
I know many people say audiences don't follow scenario shows, but our numbers over the last 10 years say different. Often our shows outdraw 3 or 4 stage acts combined. People want to believe in heroes. They want to be part of the action. They want an immersive environment, where they feel as if they are invested in the action. We have had our stumbles, and a learning curve, but when we open The Adventures of Robin Hood at the Michigan Renaissance Festival on August 22nd I am willing to bet that people will know there is a story line, and will follow the show.
See you in August!
L. Dale Walter
Director
Knights of Iron
www.knightsofiron.com (website is currently in redevelopment - please bear with us!)
At PaRF, we put the plot into as many shows and street interactions as possible. This year especially, the goal is to take the story to the streets and make the patrons as involved in it as possible. I think it is true that a lot of people coming into a faire might not know what or if there is a storyline but its up to the cast of the show to make it important to them. I really like having a plotline as inspiration and motive throughout the day. I've only been to one other faire since I became involved and I really didn't hear a word about the plot the entire time I was there.
Quote from: L Dale Walter on August 04, 2009, 08:55:56 AM
It all depends on how it is presented. My company, Knights of Iron, pretty much defined this type of entertainment over the last 10 years. What we have found is:
#1 use a story line that people are already familiar with, *Snip*
# 2 Make it "good guys in white hats, bad guys in black hats", meaning EASY for the audience to differentiate the characters.
# 3 Provide visual appeal. Make it interesting to look at. *snip* Also, and I can't emphasize this enough PRETTY SELLS. If your cast is attractive, expect better results. *snip*
# 4 Hook the kids into the story. We do this by distributing favors to the children from all of the "good guy" characters. *Snip* Interaction is key. Your characters have to work the streets, and work them hard. The more people you interact with, the higher your numbers will be.
#5 Do NOT count on the program to tell your audience where you will be. *snip*
#6 Set up every scene so it leads into the next one. Cliffhangers are great. People want to find out what happens, and you need to make them want that.
#7 on that note, make the audience CARE about the characters. To make your heroes more heroic, make your villains awful. The more it looks like the good guys cannot win, the more the audience will love it when they do. *snip*
OMG --
*morning epiphany *
Dale Walter- the Renaisance Festival's very own VINCE MACMAHON!
:D :D :P :D :D
Results don't lie. My stage count numbers are huge, and Knights of Iron has a rabid following. People like Knights of Iron shows.
Isn't that what entertainment is all about?
LDW
Quote from: L Dale Walter on August 05, 2009, 04:42:22 PM
Results don't lie. *snip* Knights of Iron has a rabid following.
I suggest taking those carrots out of your back pockets.
Oh...that was RABID! sorry. ;D
Are you changing anything about your hawking or scene setting prep for this season, since your scenario is going to be a separate entity from the overall 'Show' Plot? Adding additional non-fight 'scenes' out front or just inside?
As far as I know, there is no mention of it in the Opening Scene at the gate - So it looks like it's more in your court to hawk your own scenes, like a stage or lane act. That's going to be different than in previous years, when the KOI story arc was more married into the show plot.
Quote from: Katie Bookwench on August 05, 2009, 05:24:59 PM
Are you changing anything about your hawking or scene setting prep for this season, since your scenario is going to be a separate entity from the overall 'Show' Plot? Adding additional non-fight 'scenes' out front or just inside?
As far as I know, there is no mention of it in the Opening Scene at the gate - So it looks like it's more in your court to hawk your own scenes, like a stage or lane act. That's going to be different than in previous years, when the KOI story arc was more married into the show plot.
Actually as we are doing Robin Hood, it is pretty easy to set the show up. No need for an elaborate into at opening gate. The Vulgarian -vs- Court plot is a far harder sell. Once someone hears "Hello I am Robin Hood" or "I am the Sheriff of Nottingham", it is pretty much set in motion. The -know- the story, and the characters.
The plot runs similar to the Vulgarian thing, but is far more sinister. Robin Hood uncovers Prince John's plot to kill QE, and put a Plantagent back on the throne, namely him. He must fight from the shadows until he can prove Prince John a villain, and safeguard QE.
Over the past 4 years we have gotten very adept at tying scenes together, and hawking in and out. Remember Silver Leaf had never seen ANYTHING like a Knights of Iron show, or really any kind of cohesive plotline. Neither had Castle Farms in Charlevoix. The Legend of King Arthur show, and the fact that we proofed The Adventures of Robin Hood in two other venues first, honed our ability to set up it up, and lock the audience in early. The addition of the Robin Hood Academy of Swordsmanship, where 25 children are selected and train with Robin and the Merry Band, and then each get a chance to test their skills against the Sheriff, locks those kids into the plot, and they WILL NOT leave until they see what happens to their heroes.
So, the story arc does tie in, but does not require much support. It is much more "drop in" then the Musketeer shows were. It also allows the multiple story arcs, or at least the "premise" of the Vulgarian court to run without any interference of one with the other.
In addition, there are two "float" scenes, which are not scheduled, but can occur at any time during the day. They are designed to give the show a more "organic" and less scripted feel. One is a dramatic scene which serves to more firmly establish Robin and Marion's relationship and Marion as a string character, and the second is a comedic scene about Marion's questions about what Robin will want on their wedding night. Both can fit anywhere into the show after Act II, but before the resolution.
So, yes it is a Knights of Iron show, but a different type of Knights of Iron show that MiRF has seen before.
L. Dale Walter
Director
Knights of Iron
I love the story, I may not follow it, but I always love it. I think it gives the actors in the faire something to talk about other than their character. When you make small talk it isn't about who you are necessarily, it is about the times and what is going on. This gives the actors at faire something to talk about. "The queen's barge just landed and she's on her way to give an address. I wonder what she'll say" Things like that.
I know that I am acting in my first faire this year and as an actor I'm thankful for the plot because like I said before it gives me a little something to work with when I'm acting on the street around the different patrons.
As for Robin Hood stories? Well, LDW, I LOVE them and I'd probably get sucked into your Robin Hood story almost immediately. Granted at NYRF this year I got a kiss from one of the Sheriff's guards and that made all the kids around me freak out. "Why are you letting an evil guy give you a hug" it was awesome! Your scenario sounds really awesome. :D
There's a storyline like this--supposedly--at KCRF, where we have had season passes for at least seven years. The storyline and events are mentioned in the brochures and daily schedule. One year it was Cinderella. Sometimes it's characters trying to woo the queen. I always think it sounds fun. I always keep my eye out for the story-related events/acts.
I have NEVER seen one. Not once. In seven years of going weekly, spending full days on site, and being aware of these ongoing stories. Never.
Obviously this must be partly our fault, combined with bad timing, and whatever... but I do make it a point every time I go out to say, "Ok, let's try and catch part of the story today!" But we have yet to be in the right place at the right moment, apparently, to catch any of the story.
So I'm *sure* it's great fun for the players, as Queen Maggie says, but from the POV of an average PLAYTRON and season passholder, it's actually kind of not any part of the experience at all. I can't imagine how a casual fair-goer who comes once every five or six years would ever be aware of or able to follow it, if they even managed to find it.
Sorry, Chris. :-\
Quote from: gem on August 16, 2009, 07:39:33 PM
There's a storyline like this--supposedly--at KCRF, where we have had season passes for at least seven years. The storyline and events are mentioned in the brochures and daily schedule. One year it was Cinderella. Sometimes it's characters trying to woo the queen. I always think it sounds fun. I always keep my eye out for the story-related events/acts.
I have NEVER seen one. Not once. In seven years of going weekly, spending full days on site, and being aware of these ongoing stories. Never.
Interesting. I have been to KCRF twice, and had no trouble following the story. One was even a musical version of The Hunchback of Notre Dame. Saw the opening scene, followed the story to conclusion. There was also a Robin Hood story line that I watched as well.
Please note I am not at this faire every weekend. I have been there 2 weekends (once in 2001, and once in 2005), and was working as a lane character as well at invitation of the ED.
Quote from: gem on August 16, 2009, 07:39:33 PM
I can't imagine how a casual fair-goer who comes once every five or six years would ever be aware of or able to follow it, if they even managed to find it.
I don't remember how KCRF advertised theirs, but I had no trouble finding, nor following it. My characters, be they at MiRF, SLRF, or the now defunct CRF, made sure everyone knew there was a story, had supporting handouts, and hawked into, and out of every scene. Our numbers are huge, and people follow the story, and come back time and time again to see it. We also provide a synopsis and characters on our website, which is checked by our fans before attending a show we are at so they have times and locations.
Not sure how you missed the one at KCRF.
L. Dale Walter
Director
Knights of Iron
www.knightsofiron.com
Dale, I don't think you qualify as the *general* and *casual* patron that Gem is referring to.
Sure you only went to KCRF twice, however you are kind of uniquly qualified to spot a plot line and understand it, or see a fight scene and realize what it is.
The patron who goes to faire once a year is so overwhelmed by everything that is going on around them that I do not believe that they know there is a story line or plot to the day.
I adore it when I attend faires and it makes me sad when it isn't presented elsewhere.
Pastimes Entertainment does beautiful, involved storylines in small gorgeous locations and their audiences love it. (castles, turn of the century manor houses, state parks near the ocean)
The flip side is 'actorbation' at other venues is when the performers forget they aren't just there to glorify their own characterization.
However, I've found that when you travel away from small venues that plot gets lost and most patrons want easy characters and hitty-stabby. We did a fairly elaborate storyline for three years at one faire (we were the closest thing to 'cast') and when the venue changed so did our audience participation. So at certain faires we take our cue from the defunct Renaissance Sword Theater
* describe your character in three adjectives, stick with it.
* Have a street schtick for the people who want to play along (and yes, we make an impression apparently)
* Don't be afraid to go for the obvious or the underdog.
But if we aren't official cast, we just don't bother :(
This is overly simplistic, and there are faires like Maryland and Sterling where the audience has been educated to look for the story. But for most faires -
95% of the audience thinks the story is, "Hurray, the King is here!"
The other 5% doesn't know the King is here.
Quote from: Margaret on August 17, 2009, 05:59:00 AM
Dale, I don't think you qualify as the *general* and *casual* patron that Gem is referring to.
The patron who goes to faire once a year is so overwhelmed by everything that is going on around them that I do not believe that they know there is a story line or plot to the day.
Granted I am not your average patron, but KC did make their story pretty easy to follow, meaning if you -wanted- to follow it, you could.
They key, as I have discovered after 10 years of doing these kinds of shows, is hook them early. As I have elaborated on how to do this in an earlier post, I will not go into it here.
Suffice to say, my team is ready for MiRF with 5000 handout cards with plot synopsis, times, and locations on them. All of my good guys have show keyed favors by the thousands to give out to children. All my cast works the lanes constantly to involve people in the storyline.
Plus, it's freakin' Robin Hood! Who doesn't know and love that one?
L. Dale Walter
Director
Knights of Iron
www.knightsofiron.com
Quote from: aerial angels on August 18, 2009, 03:54:13 AM
This is overly simplistic, and there are faires like Maryland and Sterling where the audience has been educated to look for the story. But for most faires -
95% of the audience thinks the story is, "Hurray, the King is here!"
The other 5% doesn't know the King is here.
Allison is right; the audience has to be educated that there IS a storyline. We did this with the 4 years of Musketeer/Pirate shows so people came expecting to see a new story.
As we have had a 3 year absence, it will be interesting to see how quickly we can re-educate the patrons to the new storyline. Stacking two of the most controversial people in Renfestdom on the cast was done intentionally, and, believe me, it is drawing attention!
Stage counts will tell, but if the promos and media day are an indicator, I would get an early seat at the 4:30 Chess Match!
LDW
(insert stuff here)
My 2 cents.
Patrons (I.E. the general populace who shows up every 2 to 5 years) are the self same people who go to movies, read books, attend stage plays, watch television, form fan clubs ad infinitum.
They do these things because generally, people like a good story which in general must have some form of plot and characters.
So now transfer the Patrons love of the above Plot and Characters and put that into an open air theater setting (Renaissance Faire). If the story is properly advertised I.E. hawking, constant working of the lanes by the characters in the show and the ever crucial hooking in the children then the show will quite simply have a following, more so if the story is dynamic, action oriented with a simple good versus evil style plot (Thank you Walt Disney!)
The Hero must be Heroic, the Villian must be nearly insurmountable and in the end the hero wins...oohs and ahhs all around.
I've watched "Plot" driven storylines at several renaissance fairs, frankly most approach it poorly and the entire affair devolves into a fairly un-entertaining mind numbing wander into actorbationville. When it is approached correctly, the concept knocks the cover off of the ball.
The KEY to this type of shows success is that the actors within the show MUST MUST understand that the show does not exist for them it is for the paying customer.
When this simple rule is observed, magic happens. When the rule is ignored the show fails.
All that said, the only way you would know or not if I'm right is to come out to MiRF and see if we entertain you with the Ledgend of Robin Hood.
This is all very interesting. I can't look at what other faires do in terms of story from the point of view of a patron. I go to a faire and I look for the plot/storyline, because (at least at the faires here in Ontario) I know a good chunk of the cast. So I don't really know what it's like coming in as just a regular patron.
I felt I did a disservice by not linking to these folks earlier (in a rush)
They make sure they have the perfect venue, they have recurring characters that grow, learn and sometimes die, even smallest characters have a history and ways to interact and they prep the public most of the year!
http://www.pastimesentertainment.com/pirate.html
(and scope out the other shows :)
Pastimes does one hell of a good job developing story and plot. We performed at thier pirate faire the last 4 years, and they argh all about the plot. They manage to carry over elements from the year before, and write new twists into what seems like one long continuous tale. Last year Capt Hook got married. This year he got divorced, in example.
IMHO, making up wholely fictional charecters , ie Sir Rampage vs Sheriff Wantage is a tough sell, and who the hell are they in the first place? Make it Sir Robin and Sheriff Notingham, people already know who they argh - lets you develope story line rather then having to educate patrons on who you are.
All IMHO of course - we dont usualy get involved with the actors much, unless it is to steal something from the troupe. Or to mutter " I didn't vote for him" when the King passes by.
i think that if a show is done right than it is very easy to follow the plot throughout the day, and it enriches the patron's experience at the faire. i greatly enjoyed seeing the robin hood show this past weekend and at many of the shows i saw the same patrons (mainly families) over and over again. oh, and the children! when they talked to the good guys they were talking to their heroes, you could see it in their faces. it was just like going to Disney world and meeting Cinderella. but if a show is not done right then patrons will stand and stare then walk away wondering what they saw. there is no emotional investment.
i think there is another type of show at MiRF that is similar to the robin hood show. i am not really sure. i know the actors, fine people, but i have no idea what i was watching. :( there was yelling and people pretending to hurt eachother, but i don't know who i was suppose to be cheering for. all of a sudden there was an area roped off and there were people fighting. it felt like i was watching WWE medieval style.
i was just reading my last plot and it occurred to me... the only plot that i have seen at the 4 different faires i have been to involve the queen/king showing up, saying hi and opening the gates. except for the knights of iron shows. they make plot work and work well! i have seen their musketeer show, king Aurthur show and robin hood show and they do it right! if they could write a book about what works and what doesn't there would be more better plot driven faires. and i think that would make every faire better.
The size of the faire and the quantity of cast members should dictate the need and/or benefit of a running plot. If the plot is carried out in the lanes throughout the day, it tends to draw in patrons. At larger faires than can afford to dedicate a stage to developing the plot line, it may work but at smaller faires it just competes with the stage shows. People who may enjoy a music act would have to miss it because they wouldn't want to miss the next installment of the story. That's not good for the stage acts.
At the faire that I am currently working, the owner has seen fit to cut the cast to an absolute minimum. A plot line wouldn't be possible beyond opening gate show.
I have seen faires that use a scripted show and faires that use interactive improv in the lanes. The patrons seem to respond to the latter and come away with a much better memory of the experience. Of course, that depends greatly on the ability of the cast to pull it off. My only complaint of scripted shows is that the cast doesn't usually interact with patrons in the lanes. I'm sure there are faires that do both but it's a rare situation.
Yes, for the tiny faires, a running plot that happened might detract from stage acts - though if the Entertainment department was on the ball, they could find a scheduling solution that would benefit everyone.
At MiRF, there are both improvisationally interactive and scripted interactive street events. Both are interactive, in the sense that the audience is invited to cheer or boo the action, or to take sides with characters in the scripted action - what they cannot do in a scripted scene is interject themselves into the already established scene and change the direction, or the outcome of the events-- but not everyone that attends the show will want to be the star - many people are content to watch from the sidelines.
The others in the cast are there to offer the improv activity, that is (we would hope) more tuned to give the audience member a chance to be the star, and drive the action with their response to the actor(s) of the village.
It's not really the quantity of the cast, but the quality, that would enable or disable the effectiveness of a running plot to the show. Even a very small faire could develop a very open, general plot if they wished to, but I think a lot of thought by the Entertainment Director should go into the talents of the actors involved, and how intensive the show's overall plot should be.
i agree with bookwench, when done right the size of the faire doesn't matter if the plot is executed well. i went to a very small faire once where plot worked well. the scenes were scheduled at the same time as shows that pulled a different demographic and then in between the scenes anyone could interact with the characters.
Quote from: Terry Griffith on September 01, 2009, 01:21:40 PM
I have seen faires that use a scripted show and faires that use interactive improv in the lanes. The patrons seem to respond to the latter and come away with a much better memory of the experience. Of course, that depends greatly on the ability of the cast to pull it off. My only complaint of scripted shows is that the cast doesn't usually interact with patrons in the lanes. I'm sure there are faires that do both but it's a rare situation.
TRF does.... ;D
MiRF's scenario show does lane interaction pretty much all day except at scripted scenes and even then some patron interaction comes into play.
Good times.
Thighbiter, it's up to the actors to define those rolls. Made up characters can be wildly popular, with the right actors playing them. The problem with playing mostly known characters is that they are known. People don't tend to take super well to deliniations from story archs in their favorite characters.
I know someone who was seriously ticked off that Pasttimes (and yes, they do a wonderful job!) had Hook marry anyone at all. He is simply too beloved to screw with. Same with Robin Hood and Arthur and....
As for my opinion on plot.
Nope.
I've heard so many questions come into my booth because people will catch a snippit and not know what's going on. Most people don't show up at the crack of the gate and stay until the last call.
Allyson mentioned Sterling training the audience to look for it, but they don't. They've been putting plot lines in their shows for 20+ years now and people who've been going that long still don't seem to catch on to anything beyond what the royal overlaying plot is. Spanish Ambassador visit to the Queen... Normally there are many subplots that do work into shows but are not so strongly tied in that you *need* to see everything to know what's going on. Thanks to that, people don't really look for it. Now, Sterling has undergone TREMENDOUS change in the past couple years with the new owner, and so Gary has put a bigger push back on the plotline but overall in the past decade, it seriously lagged and patrons didn't notice let alone care.
This is kind of a loaded question on here. We aren't mundane patrons.
Rennies notice the plot because we are there, performing, vending or attending and we notice the ear marks.
I forgot which faire it was, forgive me, but my absolute favorite "involvement" technique of plot introduction of any faire was a newspaper as a program.
It wasn't large, it wasn't elaborate. The map, the cast, the vendor list was all present and cleverly worked in but there was a "headline" story that you couldn't miss the title of..."Can the Queen Evade Spanish Invasion" (example)
Then there was a smaller article "Sherrif Rottenly, Long arm of the law or henchman?" there was an obit section complete with "Grave Digger looking to fill vacancies", there were announcements "Mayor's searching for suitable husband" and "Pirates to the East, Thieves to the West...is the shire in danger?" Small articles giving plot elements were there but a really quick skim of titles and bylines gave patrons a great understanding of plot. I was blown away impressed.
I also expected to see a tonne of these crumpled in the streets, but they weren't. There were recycling bins, just in case people didn't keep them but many did, and even sought out "autographs" on them. I also saw them put to use as a bum-buffer on a wet bench, as umbrellas and as the ever popular mud shield at the mud show.
Quote from: mistress lilly on September 10, 2009, 08:56:13 AM
I forgot which faire it was, forgive me, but my absolute favorite "involvement" technique of plot introduction of any faire was a newspaper as a program.
It wasn't large, it wasn't elaborate. The map, the cast, the vendor list was all present and cleverly worked in but there was a "headline" story that you couldn't miss the title of..."Can the Queen Evade Spanish Invasion" (example)
Then there was a smaller article "Sherrif Rottenly, Long arm of the law or henchman?" there was an obit section complete with "Grave Digger looking to fill vacancies", there were announcements "Mayor's searching for suitable husband" and "Pirates to the East, Thieves to the West...is the shire in danger?" Small articles giving plot elements were there but a really quick skim of titles and bylines gave patrons a great understanding of plot.
That is a fantastic idea!! Someone was really on the ball with that one.
Quote from: mistress lilly on September 10, 2009, 08:56:13 AM
plotline but overall in the past decade, it seriously lagged and patrons didn't notice let alone care.
This is kind of a loaded question on here. We aren't mundane patrons.
Rennies notice the plot because we are there, performing, vending or attending and we notice the ear marks.
I think the 400+ people screaming for Robin Hood to get up after the Sheriff put him down in the final scene last Monday at MiRF may disagree.
We get -very- few rennies at Knights of Iron shows. We have mostly families with kids. Very Disney-esque market.
All depends on how hard you work the streets, how solid your characters are, and how much you want to put in. People keep telling me plot doesn't work. Show numbers, fan mail, autographs, and pictures (over 400 taken of the bad guys on 9/6 alone) say differently.
LDW
Quote from: mistress lilly on September 10, 2009, 08:56:13 AM
I forgot which faire it was, forgive me, but my absolute favorite "involvement" technique of plot introduction of any faire was a newspaper as a program.
It wasn't large, it wasn't elaborate. The map, the cast, the vendor list was all present and cleverly worked in but there was a "headline" story that you couldn't miss the title of..."Can the Queen Evade Spanish Invasion" (example)
Then there was a smaller article "Sherrif Rottenly, Long arm of the law or henchman?" there was an obit section complete with "Grave Digger looking to fill vacancies", there were announcements "Mayor's searching for suitable husband" and "Pirates to the East, Thieves to the West...is the shire in danger?" Small articles giving plot elements were there but a really quick skim of titles and bylines gave patrons a great understanding of plot. I was blown away impressed.
I also expected to see a tonne of these crumpled in the streets, but they weren't. There were recycling bins, just in case people didn't keep them but many did, and even sought out "autographs" on them. I also saw them put to use as a bum-buffer on a wet bench, as umbrellas and as the ever popular mud shield at the mud show.
PaRF does this. Every year there is an "Elizabethan Times" with a map, schedule, show info, cast info and brief articles oexplaining the plot line and history-related info (and of course a fair share of advertising, but that's business). They've made it a bit more compact in the past couple years, but its still a standard with lots of info, especially for new patrons.
For a number of years, I was the president and manager of a smaller college run faire in Grand Rapids, so I've seen the plus sides of plot and how it works, as well as the downsides and how it doesn't.
The size of the festival has very little to do with whether or not plot is followed, but rather how easy or how difficult it is to cover enough patronage to get them to follow it. As Dale has said, by printing advertisement and hitting the lanes hard -- and also by choosing very recognizable characters -- it draws in a crowd or at least generates interest. If you have a plot line and spend no time selling it or talking about it, then no, patrons won't follow plot; they won't know it's there!
Choosing characters that people are already naturally invested in -- ie, characters of storybooks and legends -- DOES make a distinct difference in average patron following. At our festival, since it is college run and volunteer based, we accept everyone whether they have a costume or not, whether they have acting experience or not, etc. We have attempted to do small plot-line scenarios throughout the day before, and while some of the patrons seem interested and followed it through to the cumulative scene at the end of the day, we were unable to offer them characters that they could invest themselves in. We gave them Pirate Captain with a moron crew versus the Upholders of Law, which was fun, and I saw many who were entertained, but I would hardly say that they were invested in the victories or failures of the characters.
In addition to that, none of us were able to spend time in the streets hawking the plot or interacting very closely with patrons because our festival requires us to have multiple roles -- we are its actors, organizers, fundraisers, information boothies, security, groundskeeping, etc, etc. We saw proof that if you can't be present to sell your show, then it doesn't work. A plot show requires effort.
Basically, if you're going to create a plot line and expect it to be followed, you need to be present, you need to be vocal, and you need to be there for your average patron, not for your friends and not for yourself. I do think that a plotline with original characters can work, but it is a far greater undertaking then already using established characters of legend and requires a great deal more effort than most people are willing or able to put forth.
When I started going to other festivals as a patron, the first thing that hooked me was an exciting plot with investable characters. I enjoyed it so much that every weekend I went back, I still followed the plot show, even though I'd seen it time and time again. People love their movies, their books, their tv shows, and plot scenarios are an opportunity to bring all of that right to the face of an average person and give them something really cool to watch.
So, do patrons follow plot? Yes -- if it's done right and the people within it are committed to sharing their story with everyone who walks through the gate.
From a Stage Act's point of view;
As a stage act; we are more focussed on what is immediately affecting our audiences - ie weather, other shows, time of day etc etc etc. We generally don't know what the cast is up to at any given time, we may see bits being played out on the street, but like Alison says, 90% of casual Faire-goers (not anyone on here, again,the fact that you're on this board means you are Not Casual LOL... if your footwear costs half or more of what your car did then no, you are not casual) only know "Yay! The King is Here!"
So I guess I'll say for more stage performers, no, we don't usually follow the storyline although we are aware of it, and think all the castmembers do a kick weed puller job of
drawing in the audience to get them to care.
"Hello, my name is Inigo Montoya. You killed my father. Prepare to die!"
Who he is
Plot exposition
What is going to happen next
Best Character intro ever!
Quote from: VIII on October 12, 2009, 11:31:23 AM
Who he is
Plot exposition
What is going to happen next
Best Character intro ever!
Agreed! Like I always tell my performers "If the audience doesn't know who you are in 7 seconds, you have failed."
I saw it constantly this year. I would introduce myself "Pleasure to meet you, I am William DeLacey, the Sheriff of Nottingham..." and BANG they KNEW what was going on. The audience knew that Robin Hood would be there, and that we would be in conflict. Nothing more had to be said.
LDW
Well I am going to throw in my 2 ducats worth. Essentially everything, everyone is saying has merit and each is staunchly protective of their particular opinion. However I would like to point out 2 things. 1. What works for one may not necessarily work for someone else. L.Dale's opinion is a good one but I don't think it would work in a small market. At Gulf Coast a central theme has been tried, but since it is a 1 weekend faire it is impossible to get the central characters together to reherse the scenario and know for a fact how everything is going to work out. 2. Here I am going to go out on a limb because I tried googling the info and could not come up with the reference that I was looking for. I know I read it somewhere. What I am referring to is the established concept of why the original medieval/renn-faires were established in the first place. They did not come about because a specific event was occuring, I.E. the King/Queen is visiting, K. Henry/K Francis meeting on the field of the cloth of gold, ETC. ETC. The faires were established as a method of trade between countries in order to bring goods from one country to the host country which did not have the raw materials. I.E. Spanish Toledo Steel for weapons or French Wine to England for English Wool or English Oak for ship building, Oriental spices, silk ETC. The hosting countrys monarch would have to give dispensations of taxes in order to entice the merchants to bring their goods. Also the host country would also provide protection from thieves and bandits. If the host countries monarch was traveling he/she might visit the faire giving it a more important reason for being. Specific events like maybe Eliz./Mary Q of Scots. could be used, or the Field of the Cloth of Gold was another specific event, but these were rare. In all likelyhood the faire was hosted by a regional official such as the local Duke of a region and therein if he was important enough he might invite the King/Queen. But the main reason for the faires was TRADE. Is there any historical document which confirms that Elizabeth or Henry actually attended a faire. As I said I am not stating that I am the expert here, but this is what I have learned over the years. For the most part ALL of our renn-faires adhere to this trade concept, as evidenced by the number of vendors at each faire, there is your trade reason. If a dispute arises between two factions, then to me there is the subplot and the reason for the joust. At GCRF, the trade aspect is the initial reason for being there, as an addendum, we merely use the concept of "the King and Queen are visiting and they wishes to see a bit of sport", so the SCA puts on demostrations and the jousters will make passes in friendly competition. Of course the King, being a former seafaring man in his younger days can, at a few times during the day, be seen at the gypsy camp watching the belly dancers and learning new "naval manuevers". And believe me the puns get worse from there. It does not always have to strife and turmoil. I have found that most people come to faire to see the joust anyway, whether there is plot or not. Like I said at the beginning, just my 2 ducats worth.
Quote from: BLAKDUKE on October 19, 2009, 09:23:35 AM
For the most part ALL of our renn-faires adhere to this trade concept, as evidenced by the number of vendors at each faire, there is your trade reason.
I'm not sure I agree with this bit. Most faires I've been to are based on the Royal Progress, where His or Her Majesty would journey through the countryside to see various parts of his/her kingdom. The stores/vendors that are there are stores that would normally be in the town, plus others that would spring up in order to milk some money off the royal retinue. Granted, most small villages wouldn't have that many shops, but they wouldn't be selling pre-made nobles garb, wooden swords or Diet Coke either. In any event, that's the rationale for "faire" I've seen presented at most faires, and it's the excuse for having the king or queen there.
Will
I said that all of our faires "adhere" to the trade concept, I did not say they were all based on it. True the royal progress is the theme in a lot of our faires but there were faires long before the royal progress came about. Trade with other countries, cities, shires etc. still remains high on the list of reasons. My point is that while a "plot line" may be essential in some venues, they are not necessarily required to have, and that presence and/or absence of a central plot will not make or break a faire. As an example
has anyone ever come up to faire management and complained that the faire stunk or was bad or did not hold their interest because there was no central plot and/or theme. There are successful faires that have 7 different themed weekends and with a plot for each one(whew). There are faires which have only one theme for the entire run with and without plots. And lastly there are faires with no plot whatsoever just people gathering and enjoying the atmosphere and events and having fun. In truth kids(7 - 15)
I do not think care about plot. Show them knights in shining armor, grandly dressed nobles, peasants wallowing in the mud, animals of any kind and they are happy. As long as the kids are happy, that is whats important.
The BLAKDUKE
Quote from: BLAKDUKE on October 21, 2009, 07:47:47 AM
My point is that while a "plot line" may be essential in some venues, they are not necessarily required to have, and that presence and/or absence of a central plot will not make or break a faire. As an example has anyone ever come up to faire management and complained that the faire stunk or was bad or did not hold their interest because there was no central plot and/or theme. There are successful faires that have 7 different themed weekends and with a plot for each one(whew). There are faires which have only one theme for the entire run with and without plots. And lastly there are faires with no plot whatsoever just people gathering and enjoying the atmosphere and events and having fun. In truth kids (7 - 15) I do not think care about plot. Show them knights in shining armor, grandly dressed nobles, peasants wallowing in the mud, animals of any kind and they are happy. As long as the kids are happy, that is whats important.
The BLAKDUKE
On that matter, I think we're in "violent agreement". ;D I have long since given up on conversing with patrons about any of the plot points at our faire. It's like patron repellent - it actually pushes them away.
Quote from: will paisley on October 21, 2009, 08:49:17 AM
Quote from: BLAKDUKE on October 21, 2009, 07:47:47 AM
My point is that while a "plot line" may be essential in some venues, they are not necessarily required to have, and that presence and/or absence of a central plot will not make or break a faire. As an example has anyone ever come up to faire management and complained that the faire stunk or was bad or did not hold their interest because there was no central plot and/or theme. There are successful faires that have 7 different themed weekends and with a plot for each one(whew). There are faires which have only one theme for the entire run with and without plots. And lastly there are faires with no plot whatsoever just people gathering and enjoying the atmosphere and events and having fun. In truth kids (7 - 15) I do not think care about plot. Show them knights in shining armor, grandly dressed nobles, peasants wallowing in the mud, animals of any kind and they are happy. As long as the kids are happy, that is whats important.
The BLAKDUKE
On that matter, I think we're in "violent agreement". ;D
Will
No violence please..... I am a peacefull man(yeah right). In truth most people today could not care less about history, it's finer point, or it's majpr points. Ask them about the "War of the Roses" and they will refer to a couple named Rose that got divorced last year. Ask them about the war of 1812 and they will tell you that was the war that freed the slaves. The American Revolution, that was the where WE beheaded Louis XVI and Marie Attoinette. It's just plain scary how people just do not care about what went on before video games. If they do not learn it in the movies it just never happened. I fear if the trend continues our faires will slowly decline and dissappear because no one will be interested in old stuff like that.
The BLAKDUKE
Quote from: BLAKDUKE on October 21, 2009, 07:47:47 AM
In truth kids(7 - 15) I do not think care about plot.
Disagree. Out target market is kids 3-11, and BELIEVE ME they are interested in what happens to Robin Hood, King Arthur, The Three Musketeers, or whoever our storyline is about. Now if the show in question is about the consolidation of currency under QEI, ummm, maybe not so much...
Our show this year at MiRF "The Adventures of Robin Hood" pulled 17,315 people over the 7 week run, or well over 10% of total attendance. Those numbers are huge for any show, and for a scenario they are unheard of by most.
You just have to get the formula (previously discussed) down, and it WORKS.
L. Dale Walter
Director
Knights of Iron
Quote from: BLAKDUKE on October 22, 2009, 09:38:39 AM
Quote from: will paisley on October 21, 2009, 08:49:17 AM
Quote from: BLAKDUKE on October 21, 2009, 07:47:47 AM
In truth kids (7 - 15) I do not think care about plot.
I obviously can't speak for everyone, but I was a vehement follower of the plot when I was that age. I suspended my disbelief right out the window--I remember one time when I was about 11, my friend and I got so worked up over the Robin Hood scenario we were actually kicking/throwing rocks at the Sherriff of Nottingham.
Speaking of the power of plot, especially for children. In 2005-2007 we ran a show at the Silver Leaf Renaissance Faire called "The Legend of King Arthur". In it two of the biggest bad guys were Percard the Black Knight, and D'Kahn, a Russian character.
In 2008 we ran a Robin Hood show (this is just put in here as a point of time line)
In 2009 we did not do a "plot based" show, but rather we brought Percard and D'Kahn back in a stage show called "The School of Villainy", where they attempted to recruit new villains for their "Empire of Pure Evil", which was explained as a "kind of like Amway for villains"...
During one of our more crowded shows, I watched a whole family of five get up out of the middle of the audience and leave about 5 minutes in. I found this odd, as we were really the only show on at the time, and it was going well. So, I noted it, and moved on.
Later in the day the parents came up to me and apologized. It turns out that 3 YEARS AGO their 3 kids saw the King Arthur show, and when they realized we were the villains from that show, wanted NOTHING to do with us. Furthermore, they were still wearing the favors that the knights bestowed upon them, as they had saved them so if the Knights of the Round Table saw them again, they would know they were being faithful to the oaths they had taken.
I was a bit stunned. She went on to say that her family often uses the lessons taught in the King Arthur show as illustrations for her children, saying how if you do something bad you are like Mordred. Suffice to say NONE of her children want to be like him, and all aspire to be like King Arthur and his Knights.
I can live with that...
LDW
We went to KCRF years ago and wanted to follow the scenario. After Opening Gate, we positioned ourselves for the next act in the Robin Hood show, so we got there early. When start time came and went (being the hams we are), we started narrating the "show" of the patrons walking thru the (not a stage) performing area.
"Look! She must be Maid Marian!"
"Nope, she's got a baby carriage!"
"Uh oh, Robin's got some 'splainin' to do!"
etc...
No, not brilliant theater, but fun nonetheless.
We were eventually informed the Robin got Strep Throat and they had to cancel that act.
For the final act that day, Robin made an appearance and mimed the entire denouement with the other performers filling in the story!