Greetings,
I am posting to create an interest list in participation at a Full-Time renaissance theme park. Are there any rennies out there who would be interested in living, vending, acting or visiting a renaissance theme park that would operate 24 hours a day for at least several consecutive months out of the year? I am looking into securing a piece of property that could sustain long term existence (with minimal need for importing supplies). The property will be large enough to build a small town with taverns, stables, shoppes and Inns as well as having workable farmland and villages separate from the main town. The concept is to create an environment where rennies can LIVE out their characters for more than just the weekend and guests can experience what it would have been like to live in the period. This would be a vacation resort where guest can come for the day, stay for a week or even become a contributing member of the community. So, have at it! Tell me what you think of this idea, what you like or dislike about it and why you think it will or will not be a success.
Fascinating concept. In what part of the country are you thinking about?
Interesting concept. Difficult idea to wrap my head around. Would like to hear more details. If trying to gauge interest Yea/Nay, I vote Yea.
I came across this location during some browsing...I would LOVE something like their tudor weekends the states!
http://www.kentwell.co.uk/ (http://www.kentwell.co.uk/)
Sounds like an interesting place to visit.
If you're talking about operating a Renaissance Theme Park as a business, you might look into how parks like Silver Dollar City (1880's era Ozark Mountains) or Dollywood (Smokey Mountains) are organized and run. They have a lot of crafts and entertainment geared to a specific "time" and "place."
If you secure the property, then I guess you'd take care of the zoning, permits, taxes, and any state or county required infrastructure (roads, water, sewer, electrical) improvements? What about conveniences like Phones (remote rural areas may have marginal Cellular coverage) and Internet Access? Would you build the structures that people would come to live and work in, or would they be required to do so? If they build and own them, how is the tax bill for property improvements divvied up - and could they sell them to whoever they'd like? If you own the structures, would the people be paying you to use the buildings, or be employed by you to demonstrate their crafts and talents for the community?
Take Care,
David Baldock
Loving the feeback/interest. Of course all state and local laws would be satisfied and the "Resort" would be run as a business. I'm currently looking at a piece of property in Central California that is around 500 acres and has amenities already (including a water powered mill house). As far as the modern conveniences go, for the sake of authenticity, mundane items such as cell phones and computers would not be welcome in the park but could be checked in at a secure building at the park entrance. Modern money will not be used inside the park but guests can purchase period replica tokens to make purchases inside the park (vendors can exchange these for cash). Bunk houses would be available for cast/crew and room fees would be deducted from pay accordingly. Crew would also have the option to reside in villages under a land/lease but might be required to build their own structure. The structure could be sold to a pre-approved lessee but land would not be deeded. The nominal land lease would provide for any taxes that would be incurred for improvements if that is the case. If a structure were forfeit or abandoned then that building would come into possession of the park and could be sold/leased at the parks discretion. Back to the mundane. Public phones and computers would be available at a cyber-cafe near the main entrance of the resort for those guests that absolutely must stay in contact while visiting the resort. The idea is to create an environment where the community is self sufficient with barter/trade/entertainment/farming etc. and the guest comes to learn and interact with the community. Vendors would essentially be private contractors and would be provided with sufficient area in the marketplace to vend and camp. I don't want to go into too much further detail at this point but I think you might catch the drift.
I just looked up the Kentwell Hall website and YES! The idea is to create the same type of experience but more from the commoners and tradesman perspective.
Quote from: dbaldock on August 09, 2013, 12:48:22 PM
Sounds like an interesting place to visit.
If you're talking about operating a Renaissance Theme Park as a business, you might look into how parks like Silver Dollar City (1880's era Ozark Mountains) or Dollywood (Smokey Mountains) are organized and run. They have a lot of crafts and entertainment geared to a specific "time" and "place."
I agree, I think your best bet for a comparative is Silver Dollar City (SDC). They are very successful and offer a relatively historical entertainment venue while also making sure modern amenities (which guests need) are provided for. They have some areas that are strictly historical (like the Homestead), the craft and entertainment areas (which vary from historical to edutainment), and the park rides. While I LOVE the idea of a strictly historical Ren park I think the stringent rules may turn away quit a few people, especially if they are wanting to stay at the resort. I know I would be wary of someplace that said I couldn't have my cell phone on me. The money changing idea is cool but I think I would make it optional. SDC also has a resort area that consists of camping and handmade log cabins. I would start with a SDC model and work from there. My best suggestion would be to go to Branson, MO and take several days to visit the park and stay in the cabins. If nothing else it makes for a great vacation. My family has been visiting there for almost 50 years and the third generation will be going for the first time this Christmas (he'll be 6 months old)!
I would also check out the College of the Ozarks, know as Hard Work U, and the Shepherd of the Hills venue.
What ever you choose to do I wish you the best of luck. ;)
An ambitious venture, certainly. Interest list: Aye!
From a practical perspective, it is doubtful that our family would exchange our much closer-to-home vacation options to come see you in Cali.
Cheers! from Ohio
I've seen the ideas tossed around on a number of ren forums over the years. I seem to remeber that there was someone planning south of Cleveland at one time. I personally would love to work in such an enviromentso I wish you the best of luck. Hopefully a ren faire version of Disney will happen someday. .
Quote from: Anomalous44 on August 09, 2013, 02:45:55 PM
Loving the feeback/interest. Of course all state and local laws would be satisfied and the "Resort" would be run as a business. I'm currently looking at a piece of property in Central California that is around 500 acres and has amenities already (including a water powered mill house). As far as the modern conveniences go, for the sake of authenticity, mundane items such as cell phones and computers would not be welcome in the park but could be checked in at a secure building at the park entrance. Modern money will not be used inside the park but guests can purchase period replica tokens to make purchases inside the park (vendors can exchange these for cash). Bunk houses would be available for cast/crew and room fees would be deducted from pay accordingly. Crew would also have the option to reside in villages under a land/lease but might be required to build their own structure. The structure could be sold to a pre-approved lessee but land would not be deeded. The nominal land lease would provide for any taxes that would be incurred for improvements if that is the case. If a structure were forfeit or abandoned then that building would come into possession of the park and could be sold/leased at the parks discretion. Back to the mundane. Public phones and computers would be available at a cyber-cafe near the main entrance of the resort for those guests that absolutely must stay in contact while visiting the resort. The idea is to create an environment where the community is self sufficient with barter/trade/entertainment/farming etc. and the guest comes to learn and interact with the community. Vendors would essentially be private contractors and would be provided with sufficient area in the marketplace to vend and camp. I don't want to go into too much further detail at this point but I think you might catch the drift.
Sounds like something I want to take part in. Although I wish it wasn't cali. I can't even abide going there for any reason at the moment. It would be a great idea to move there some 30 years ago, but not right now. :( Although, I would have access to wine grapes, hmmm . . . nah. It's not a good idea for me to move there now. In fact, I wouldn't be able to afford it. :(
Thanks to all who have replied so far. I'm loosening up on the ideas of strict period participation since the amenities required would clearly stand out. From a business perspective I'm thinking that the main town would provide a mix of modern amenities and historical fun, while the villages and outer parts of the park can be for the more hard core period buffs. I'm in the early stage of research at this time and the only reason I mentioned California is because there is a beautiful property with 350 acres 3 ponds, a lake and a water powered mill already in place. It would be fairly easy to get going. I will be expanding my search to include the rest of the country. Ideally the property will be at a low enough altitude to operate year round and should be more than 300 acres.
There was a thread about exactly this subject started by someone else a couple of years ago, who wasn't a regular to these boards, and who didn't come here to participate... but also wanted to gauge interest in his venture, and to find people willing to commit to signing binding vending leases in order to convince his potential backers to invest. He faded away, though, and nothing ever came of his idea, even though he made it sound like it was almost to the building stage, with plans, layouts, blueprints and such. It's been talked about several times, by lots of people... and there is always interest... but so far no one has done anything more than talk. There are, however, a great many people here who would likely flock to such a place, either as vendors, entertainers or patrons... if it were to ever come into existence. I would probably even lead the pack. :)
Have seen this idea put forth in other forums. Comparisons are always made to existing places which are operating, but it seems all of those places are basically historical for the site, as in castles or medieval towns in England and Europe, early American in Eastern US, American Indiana or Wild West in Western US, etc. These attractions are in keeping with the history and location. Most are also for day-trippers, people who are visiting an area with other attractions. Some are foundation-run, historical re-enactment, etc. with student volunteers and older people acting as docents. They are not primarily places of entertainment.
It is an intriguing idea, but needs much more research than can be gleaned from these forums. Start with actually visiting current renfaires throughout the country. See first-hand what works and what does not.
Talk with owners and management about the business. Find out what tax and insurance liabilities they incur as land-owners offering lodging as well as with other people building structures on their land.
Research failed faires and non-starters, particularly one in Texas that burned a lot of people who were trying to get it off the ground for the owner.
Some of your stated ideas are not in keeping with today's marketplace. The token period money idea is cute, but more suited to a child's playland for $10- $25 amounts – not for any place a major purchase might be made. Vendors are using remote credit card machines, finding it almost a necessity to stay in business at all. Without credit machines, impulse purchase is non-existent; making it more difficult by instituting a currency exchange will shortchange the vendors.
Multiple working ATMs through the fairgrounds are required if you want people to spend money.
Cell phone and internet hot spot access is being made available during the day and almost a necessity for overnight campers.
Port-a-potties are being replaced by flush toilets, etc.
ADA compliance has to be considered.
Can you find enough employees (as in rennies who travel the faire circuit) who would be willing to settle down in one spot for months at a time? One of the reasons some major faires limit their faire to a couple months is because vendors, seasonal employees and entertainers literally get burned out working long hours each weekend, with management and year-round employees working unbelievable long hours for the entire run of the faire, seven days a week.
People like the idea of going back to a simpler time, but not for a more than a day at a time. Yes, there are diehards living off the land, without money; but those people would not be your customers; customers are the ones with money to spend.
As for self-sustaining with people growing their own food, bartering, etc., that gets into a whole different arena. There is a web site (don't remember which one, ran across it in a research similar to this a while back) listing planned, created, as well as hippie-type communities around the world. Many start with the participants (non-guests) paying a fee (as in give us all your money) or having to work outside the commune to bring in money. The only ones that seem to survive for even a short period of time (or even get off the ground) are those built around a religion or life-philosophy which includes a no-outsider policy.
These forums are populated by all kinds of people associated with faire, entertainers, vendors, rennies (as in workers who go from faire to faire), owners, and, of course, paying customers. Hopefully you can get realistic responses and ideas from the various groups.
For what it's worth, as a faire-going customer, several times a year I travel a couple hundred miles to visit faires in Texas, spending perhaps $100 a weekend at vendors (not including lodging). Although a few people on these forums have indicated they do travel great distances for faires, I would not travel 1000 miles to visit a resort based on medieval or renaissance Europe. Of my family and friends who attend faire (spending a lot more money because they have it), none of them would travel that far for any faire (unless they were already in the area for a business trip).
Excellent points Polly!
Rani-I was going to point out the same thing. This sounds a bit like the last pitch by 'Sovereign Springs' (the member who made 3 posts then faded away) for a Colorado venture.
Here is the thread, originally posted in Ye Olde Classifyds back in 2011:
http://www.renaissancefestival.com/forums/index.php/topic,14722.msg308196.html#msg308196 (http://www.renaissancefestival.com/forums/index.php/topic,14722.msg308196.html#msg308196)
Some interesting posts before SS disappeared; never to be heard from again.
Quote from: Rani Zemirah on August 10, 2013, 02:32:10 AM
There was a thread about exactly this subject started by someone else a couple of years ago, who wasn't a regular to these boards, and who didn't come here to participate... but also wanted to gauge interest in his venture, and to find people willing to commit to signing binding vending leases in order to convince his potential backers to invest. He faded away, though, and nothing ever came of his idea, even though he made it sound like it was almost to the building stage, with plans, layouts, blueprints and such. It's been talked about several times, by lots of people... and there is always interest... but so far no one has done anything more than talk. There are, however, a great many people here who would likely flock to such a place, either as vendors, entertainers or patrons... if it were to ever come into existence. I would probably even lead the pack. :)
Thank you, this is very useful information. I am very new here so it is nice to hear some history on this topic. Binding contracts bwah ha! That just will not do.
Thank you Polly and Rowen! This is meant to create an interest list and knowing the history of a topic like this is very helpful. Sustainability is imperative for a venture like this and keeping vendors happy is the only way it will work. Although I am hesitant to think about all of the modern technology and conveniences required to make this a successful "business" I am quickly realizing that it is unavoidable. Unfortunately, this increases the start up cost tremendously requiring major underground construction for plumbing, electric and communication. I will be attending a festival next month for the first time with an overnight pass. I will take your advise and have some discussions with organizers of this event. I haven't heard any feedback from craftsmen on this thread yet. I know that I have seen some at the festivals who give demonstrations. Are there any craftsmen who would be interested in having a working shoppe where they could teach their craft?
As an Electronics Engineering Technician, I tend to look at the details of _how_ an item or project works.
If you're planning this as a self-sustaining / profit making business, then your business plan will need to include the expenses:
1. Property payments
2. Property, Income, & Payroll Tax payments
3. Insurance payments for property, liability, and company owned vehicles
4. Business, Restaurant, Bar, & Hotel Licenses or Permits
5. Business, Restaurant, Bar, & Hotel supplies
6. Employee Payroll payments
7. Building and Road construction & maintenance costs
8. Utility payments
9. Advertising & Marketing costs - Print, Radio, TV, & Internet
Then you need to determine how many visitors are needed (spending an average amount) on a daily / weekly / monthly basis in order to cover all of the expenses listed above - and buying the products from your vendors who are "private contractors". Along with that, you need to know how much nearby parking, hotels, camping, grocery, & restaurants would be required to adequately serve that number of visitors - as well as the people in your park. Another thing to consider is Daycare & Schools (either licensing and running your own, or ones available in nearby communities) for the children in your park.
Location is a bit tricky - when you consider the cost of gasoline in California, you don't want to be located too far from large population centers or airports that visitors would come from. If you're too close, land & tax rate are high - but if you're in the middle of nowhere, your insurance rates can be high since you're not close to medical or firefighting services. Also, remote areas don't have easy access to the hotels, camping, grocery, restaurants, daycare, and schools.
Sounds like quite a challenge, but I hope you can work out the details to get a Medieval or Renaissance Park operating.
By-the-way - The Texas Renaissance Festival is the largest "Hard" (permanent structure) Ren Faire in the USA, with ~55 acres of New Market Village "inside the fence", and several hundred acres of parking, camping, and utility space. There are some "Soft" (temporary tent structure) Ren Faires staged in city or state parks that have more total acreage than TRF, but the actual "inside the fence" part is smaller. TRF is near Houston (Wikipedia: "Houston is the fourth-largest city in the U.S. with 2.1 million population, and the economic center of Houston–The Woodlands–Sugar Land, the fifth-largest metropolitan area in the U.S. with over 6 million people."), and has been operating since 1974. Currently, it's open 8-weekends per year during October & November, with the weekend attendance last year ranging from 40,000 - 92,000 and 127,000 for the 3-day weekend after Thanksgiving (http://trfbeefeaters.com/attendance-statistics (http://trfbeefeaters.com/attendance-statistics)). It has those large crowds probably because people know it's there, and that it's only open for those 2 months of weekends. If it were open year-round, the weekend averages would probably drop, since there wouldn't be the urgency caused by a limited 2-month run.
Take Care,
David Baldock
Quote from: Anomalous44 on August 10, 2013, 03:12:22 PM
Thank you Polly and Rowen! This is meant to create an interest list and knowing the history of a topic like this is very helpful. ...
Anamalous44 - Would you clarify exactly what an "interest list" is that you have mentioned a couple times. The topic of a wholly created full-time renaissance or medieval faire or resort encompasses many varied aspects. A renaissance-era operating "planned community" would be an entirely different area of interest.
Are you looking for people who would be interested in being:
Paying customer at a renfaire?
Paying customer at a themed resort with modern facilities?
Paying customer at a themed resort without modern facilities?
Full-time paid employees?
Independent contract vendors?
Run-of-the-faire part-time employees?
Full-time Entertainers?
Traveling Entertainers?
Unpaid volunteers to work?
Unpaid and unpaying volunteers who would live full-time while dressed in period clothing?
People who would pay to live full-time while dressed in period clothing?
You might get better response if you were more specific as to what kind of feedback you are looking for. Then you might be directed to more appropriate forum topics.
For some—maybe all—of the reasons previously stated, the embark on such a venture would require very deep pockets. It's a fun idea, but it may not be realistic. Many of the folks who are playtrons (patrons who immerse themselves in the faire) have quite limited budgets. The faire is their annual vacation, and they save their pence throughout the year in order to attend.
For a major site as you describe, you may find state health codes REQUIRE permanent plumbing. For insurance purposes, you may be REQUIRED to have communications to emergency services.
Sure, things would be fun for a while, but there a real drawbacks. As recent as 2 years ago, there was a project in the Ozarks in which a castle was being built using tools and techniques of the 15-16th century. Not long into the project, OSHA came in and required the quarrying of stone to be done using modern and more safe methods. There were some folks living on site, I believe, and it was a fascinating undertaking. After about 3 years, it found itself to be unsustainable. It is now closed as they look for more money.
No one it trying to give up the dream, but you need to be aware of the drawbacks to your initial proposal.
I would LOVE to have a faire which had a hotel on-site, built to LOOK era from the outside, but have the conveniences on the inside. But, I'm old and need the comfort.
Another comparative may be Civil war reenactments. They only usually last 3 days but the historical policies are probably the closest to what you are looking for. Even then, they are still required to have port-o-potties, clean water, medical services, etc. A lot of work goes in to a single event and you have to have the reenactors (who own the tents, equipment, etc) willing to participate. It's a lot of fun but 3 days is about all I can handle without a shower, flush toilet, running water... ;D
I'm with Merlin on the "LOOK" era, but still have running water and flush plumbing. We also have to keep in mind that periodically cleaned port-a-potties are a modern invention. As one who remembers real outhouses, more than a couple people using a two-holer gets pretty bad after a chili supper. :o
Quote from: Dinobabe on August 11, 2013, 09:48:22 AM
Another comparative may be Civil war reenactments. ...
I have a question, Dinobabe. Do the reenactors pay to participate in those events? Or is it subsidized someone?
Just wondering.
Polly asked a great question, "what kind of interest list?". To clarify, in this forum, I am looking for paid, full-time, live in the community actors/entertainers/farm workers/craftsmen etc. as well as independent contractor vendors that might be interested in longer term vending opportunities (several weeks and beyond). After all of the feedback I'm getting, it seems as if this idea might be more challenging than I first thought. I may look into the option of a "themed campground" and let it grow from there. I did locate a piece of property in the mid-west that has an unrelated large event annually for one week, within an hours drive so there are plenty of amenities nearby.
Quote from: Anomalous44 on August 11, 2013, 10:32:40 AM
Polly asked a great question, "what kind of interest list?". ....
As a start, I suggest you read through the various forums here, including Merchant News, Performer Topics, Sewing (subtopics about providers of garb), Market Square, Ye Olde Classifieds. That might give you an idea of where to be place your query.
Outside of these forums, start with Google or Bing or Ask or whatever you choose and query for those people you are looking for. You might happen up some organizations catering to renfaire actors, vendors, etc.
Dbaldock- WOW! I wonder what a breakdown service such as that would be worth to many start up businesses?
Well done, Sir!
Anomalous44 - Look what Walt Disney did with swamp land in Florida.
Because of his endeavor, Airports and hotels, and restaurants were built up around it - Disney World.
But then he already had start up capital per his animations company.
He also made surrounding theme parks: Maybe you could think in terms of.........a
- Pirates realm
- Fairie realm
- Childrens fantasy realm
- Castle realm
- History realm (educational, such as Epcot)
- A coaster park (with rides)
- Haunted Knights realm
- Elvin realm
- Etc
Yes and Disney like would be - CLEAN and inviting. Period looking on the outside, but very modern inside infrastructure.
Maybe even look into getting backing from Disney?
Cheers!
Quote from: PollyPoPo on August 11, 2013, 10:11:24 AM
Quote from: Dinobabe on August 11, 2013, 09:48:22 AM
Another comparative may be Civil war reenactments. ...
I have a question, Dinobabe. Do the reenactors pay to participate in those events? Or is it subsidized someone?
Just wondering.
We pay for all of our equipment (which is expensive because it must be authentic) as well as pay to participate in most reenactments. We also pay dues to our reenacting group and not to mention our own travel costs per event. Some reenactments charge a fee for spectators because they use the money as a fundraiser for the cost of the event and sometimes a historical society or for park land. The organizers are often volunteers and come from within the reenacting community. It sometimes takes years to plan a big event! :P
Dinobabe, thanks for answer. It is pretty much what I thought - gotta be committed to put in that time, money and effort.
What Capt Spleen said.
Also, Disney had already opened Disneyland and had expertise, reputation, and name-recognition that few could rival today.
Quote from: Capt Spleen on August 11, 2013, 11:14:00 AM
Dbaldock- WOW! I wonder what a breakdown service such as that would be worth to many start up businesses?
Well done, Sir!
...
Cheers!
Thanks.
While I'm actually more of a romantic or idealist, I'm afraid my rather pragmatic, detail-oriented approach to big projects is sometimes looked on as being pessimistic or "doom & gloom".
Take Care,
David Baldock
Quote from: dbaldock on August 11, 2013, 12:35:28 PM
..
While I'm actually more of a romantic or idealist, I'm afraid my rather pragmatic, ... pessimistic or "doom & gloom".
Some people need a little pragmatic doom and gloom to get them on the right track.
Without a firm idea of what he/she is offering potential employees or partners Anomalous44 may not be asking the right questions. Creating a realistic business plan can help pull in his/her focus to something possibly more achievable.
Having big dreams is just starting Point A. Asking if other people want to participate is somewhere around Point R. There has to be a lot of research, editing, trimming, and bringing it down to earth to get from Point A to Point R.
It's going to take even more time, work, money and perseverance to get from Point R to Point Z.
Reading through much of the renfest forums is a start. There is a lot of good information here about how faires start, work, succeed or fail, as well as information about the renfaire community itself.
Quote from: Anomalous44 on August 10, 2013, 03:12:22 PM
...I haven't heard any feedback from craftsmen on this thread yet. I know that I have seen some at the festivals who give demonstrations. Are there any craftsmen who would be interested in having a working shoppe where they could teach their craft?
I'm an artist/vendor, but my work is fantasy rather than authentic. Dragons and gryffins and faeries, oh my! ;D
Regardless of product, however, I think most artists and craftspersons would be unlikely to relocate permanently. That involves family, homes, and much more. You're far more likely to get vendors wishing to work there for a part of the year, probably between gigs at regular renfests. And those of us who make our living at this have to make a profit, so that would be a huge factor in participation. I'm sure you could get vendors for short term gigs before proving that its a viable venture, but for anything more than a couple of weekends, I'd guess that most of us would need some evidence that we won't be losing money before we'd make a larger commitment.
As for your original authentic village idea, I'm getting too old for that. LOL Give me a hot shower at the end of the day and I'm happy. ;D
Also, the comment on money was right on. I HAVE to take credit cards. Much of my work is in the over $100 range and trying to manage swapping money types around would be inconvenient for my customers, quite probably to the point of losing sales.
Start small then grow?
Have a large Hall/Restaurant, and rent it out for weddings and small conventions/events.
With a period exterior. It could serve as a beer hall/garden when not rented.
*On a completely different note .........
Have you considered Crowd Funding?
http://www.socialbrite.org/2011/04/26/15-ways-to-crowdfund-your-startup-or-project/ (http://www.socialbrite.org/2011/04/26/15-ways-to-crowdfund-your-startup-or-project/)
P.S. If you are looking for a location there is an ex renfaire in Virginia with buildings and other infrastructure. One of them is (or used to be) my grandma's. Just a thought! ;)
Anyone been out there recently to see what it looks like?
Quote from: PollyPoPo on August 11, 2013, 09:49:46 AM
I'm with Merlin on the "LOOK" era, but still have running water and flush plumbing. We also have to keep in mind that periodically cleaned port-a-potties are a modern invention. As one who remembers real outhouses, more than a couple people using a two-holer gets pretty bad after a chili supper. :o
The key to a clean-smelling outhouse is sawdust or some other natural material. Scoop some in whenever there is a solid waste, and it doesn't smell. At least that's the theory. Don't know about big crowds using one. I lived on land a friend of mine owns. His outhouse never smelled. Ever. He had a large barrel underneath it (it was built on a hill) and he replaced the barrel when it was half full, composting the waste. Read up on humanure if you haven't heard of it. We used pine needles or sawdust and it was wonderful. Sitting out in nature, hearing the birds sing ... it was the first time I actually appreciated the possibilities of an outdoor toilet.
In agreement with you, GryffinSong...to a point. Should this venture capture the audience that, say, TRF has, you would be trying to dispose/compost the waste of as many as 80,000 visitors over a weekend. A pine bough is not going to cover it... :o ;)
I believe I need to clarify a couple of things since this thread seems to be taking on a life of it's own.
First off, I am not offering vending opportunities nor am I any where near doing so. In response to Polly, I believe that creating an interest list is part B in the dream because if there aren't people besides myself interested then failure is guaranteed. I believe that the point R you referred to would be recruiting, which I am NOT doing at this time. I have still yet to find out if there are people interested. I am purely researching the concept as Polly rightly pointed out is the stage I should be at.
Second, although I appreciate the suggestions of how to create interest or the "infrastructure" that would be ideal to each of you, I am more interested in hearing, based on the concept I have vaguely outlined, yeah or nay and possibly a brief reason why. I believe that Merlin had stated something about being at his age he prefers the convenience of modern plumbing. That is perfect! He has responded in the purest way possible and has not made any assumptions about another persons position in doing so. I am more interested in YOUR personal opinion and less interested in your theory or prediction of others (however valid it may be).
Thirdly, please don't be offended if I don't answer all of your questions relating to details. The last "concept" I discussed with the target demographic in the early stages is up and running and highly successful. Unfortunately, the person running it is someone who asked questions about detail. I basically handed him my concept and he pitched it to an investor as his own.
Not interested at this time.
Quote from: Merlin the Elder on August 11, 2013, 07:56:34 PM
In agreement with you, GryffinSong...to a point. Should this venture capture the audience that, say, TRF has, you would be trying to dispose/compost the waste of as many as 80,000 visitors over a weekend. A pine bough is not going to cover it... :o ;)
LOL, I hear that!!!
Ok, as to the original question, I might be interested for up to a couple of months a year. Longer than that and I think I'd start really missing the modern conveniences. :)
Put me down as not interested.
I'm not a performer or artisan, but if I was going to be in the area of the park/community, I'd probably try to visit for a weekend or two. However, I don't think I'd take a trip across the country to visit, unless friends were going or working at the park.
Having a dream is great, and being able to make a living at it is even better.
It's that second part where most of the difficulties lie... ;)
Take Care,
David Baldock
Thanks guys. The responses have been great and being able to gauge in this forum will save me from putting too much time and effort into a lost cause. It has become apparent that the concept would not interest enough people to warrant pursuing it further at this time. I invite more people to continue to respond and at such a time (if ever) there seems to be enough interest, I will pick back up. I currently plan to work toward purchasing a property for personal use that could be used as such a site so I will remain open to the concept or variations of it.
Are you a member of the SCA, Adrian Empire, or any of the other medieval re-creation groups? They would LOVE to have a good site for events. That way you get "living history" for a long weekend at a time, and could see how well it works for you. It would also give you another group of people to poll, because, honestly, you've not really gotten enough feedback here to be statistically significant. SCA members, and similar groups, are people who really enjoy living primitive. The Pennsic War, for instance, is two solid weeks of medieval camping, with lots of vendors and classes and so on.
Whatever you decide, best of luck with it!!! :)
If there are any relatively new readers here, please be aware that the apparent lack of interest might be due to the fact that each of these ideas has been thrown out on these various forums every so often.
None of the stated concepts is really new.
They have all been discussed: and
sometimes discarded as nice dreams, but not enough money to support them;
sometimes set aside until the business potential makes them workable; and
some are actually being put into effect now at faires.
The person posting the query was given the opportunity to expand on the ideas, maybe coming up with something more original. Perhaps after more research into renaissance and medieval faires, restaurants, events, etc., he might come back with something new.
Quote from: GryffinSong on August 13, 2013, 08:29:40 PM
Are you a member of the SCA, Adrian Empire, or any of the other medieval re-creation groups? They would LOVE to have a good site for events. That way you get "living history" for a long weekend at a time, and could see how well it works for you. It would also give you another group of people to poll, because, honestly, you've not really gotten enough feedback here to be statistically significant. SCA members, and similar groups, are people who really enjoy living primitive. The Pennsic War, for instance, is two solid weeks of medieval camping, with lots of vendors and classes and so on.
Whatever you decide, best of luck with it!!! :)
Great idea!
Also consider Civil War, Mountain Men, craft and heritage, and Native American events.
Quote from: PollyPoPo on August 14, 2013, 09:09:37 AM
Hey, GryffinSong, did you see the PM I sent you?
Yes, sorry ... thought I'd replied. :o Off to do that now. ;D
Quote from: Dinobabe on August 14, 2013, 09:17:42 AM
Quote from: GryffinSong on August 13, 2013, 08:29:40 PM
Are you a member of the SCA, Adrian Empire, or any of the other medieval re-creation groups? They would LOVE to have a good site for events. That way you get "living history" for a long weekend at a time, and could see how well it works for you. It would also give you another group of people to poll, because, honestly, you've not really gotten enough feedback here to be statistically significant. SCA members, and similar groups, are people who really enjoy living primitive. The Pennsic War, for instance, is two solid weeks of medieval camping, with lots of vendors and classes and so on.
Whatever you decide, best of luck with it!!! :)
Great idea!
Also consider Civil War, Mountain Men, craft and heritage, and Native American events.
I second that.
Something else to think about:
If you want to get your feet wet starting a small faire or an artisan village, check in to an existing rustic party venue and see about time sharing the site for a few years.
Commercial U-pick Pumpkin and berry farms are good places to start looking for a turn key, already developed venue.
They are usually glad of a money making opportunity leading up to their fall harvest events, Halloween haunted houses, and harvest corn mazes.
These events are notoriously crowded and popular, and are generally located close to population centers and paved highways. The best thing is-
People know where they are. All you need to do is advertise.
As for overhead- The owners of the site will frequently work something out in lieu of a rental fee for a percentage of the gate, and/ or some sort of proprietary vending agreement.
For example: our hosts have 2 food kiosks which they make tons of money from during the fair, using their professionally equipped on site catering facilities, and in turn they maintain the bathroom facilities, parking lots, access roads and security, etc. at no additional cost. They also advertise our faire on their website. ;) Win Win. They make money off a site that normally wouldn't be making any money for them for a couple of months, and we don't have the day to day maintenance headaches.
The party (mostly weddings) venues are next door, overlooking the faire, but the events don't interfere with each other because each has it's own parking lot and access road. Recently we have offered free gate to party guests-many of which have never been to a Renaissance faire or didn't know we were there.
Quote from: Rowen MacD on August 14, 2013, 06:27:38 PMRecently we have offered free gate to party guests-many of which have never been to a Renaissance faire or didn't know we were there.
Creating future customers!!! 8)
Quote from: Dinobabe on August 15, 2013, 09:12:31 AM
Quote from: Rowen MacD on August 14, 2013, 06:27:38 PMRecently we have offered free gate to party guests-many of which have never been to a Renaissance faire or didn't know we were there.
Creating future customers!!! 8)
Who are a little overdressed for a dusty faire, but it's fun to watch bridesmaids and groomsmen stroll about, looking at the vendor stalls. ;D. They don't stay long, but the guests with young children like having a distraction for the kids.
Sorry to leave this thread hanging for a bit, I've been busy. Lots of great feedback and suggestions on how to obtain more feedback. To be honest, the dream is to have a community where people can live a simpler life and the business side of it would be purely to maintain the needs of the community and educate others. I hadn't thought of doing different periods and groups but that might be just the ticket to making this happen. I will continue researching and researching...
Anomalous44 - see PM sent today.
I have a friend who owns a large piece of land out west. He built his own home with his own hands. He has several vegetable gardens. He knows people who hunt. He builds almost all of his things (including his home) with local and recycled materials, most of which he found or bartered for. His dream is to build a variety of sustainable homes on the property, and live simply. He already does that, and he'd like to add to it. Although he isn't building a medieval village, he belongs to a medieval re-creation group, and he hosts events there, both for them, and for several blacksmiths to demonstrate their craft. I love his ideas, and for some of us, he is an example of a simpler, more ecologically sound community.
I think this is a wonderful idea and am interested in it...