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Faire Garb => Sewing => Topic started by: gem on January 10, 2009, 03:30:57 PM

Title: Can we talk about hemp boning and corsets again?
Post by: gem on January 10, 2009, 03:30:57 PM
I know we had some discussions of hemp-corded corsets/bodices on the old forum, but we have a lot of new members with lots of experience, so I thought I'd throw it up here again.

I've read extensively about using this technique--everything I can find online, starting with the pages on Festive Attyre (http://www.festiveattyre.com/research/cording/cord.html).  What I'm really interested in is discussion and tips from our members here, based on their own experiences with this. :)

I have tried this on test scraps several times, and I always find the hemp impossibly difficult to feed through the boning channels--and if I widen the channels, the support/stiffness is compromised.  I know somebody here (Mythrin?) uses an old windshield washer piece to help with that, but I'm not even sure what that would look like.  I've tried squashing the folded end into a point with needle-nosed pliers, and feeding it through with everything from brute force, to an extra-long crochet hook, to a tube turner--and none of them give good results.  I seem to remember reading about somebody who sewed the channels as she went--laying one row of cording down and then sewing along it.  Has anyone tried that?  I have doubts that I could keep my rows straight, or get my machine in quite that snugly (altho' I have a new machine with lots of specialty feet; I think there's a piping foot that might work).

This is a technique I'd really love to master (I would love a corset like Jen's (http://www.festiveattyre.com/gallery/linens/un4.html) for my growing Italian wardrobe), and so far I can't even conquer Step 1.
Title: Re: Can we talk about hemp boning and corsets again?
Post by: Adriana Rose on January 10, 2009, 03:38:00 PM
I would be leary about using hemp in a corset, yes its H/A but I donno about you guys but I like to wash my corsets at least once a season and the hemp is a natural fiber so if it gets wet it might rot.

Think of a hemp necklace that has been worn for a long time it gets kinda squshy..

But on that same line you could use a cotton cording that likes to get wet..

For the getting it into the channel i would try wrapping the end of the cord in packing tape to make it a touch more stiff.


hope that makes sense
Title: Re: Can we talk about hemp boning and corsets again?
Post by: Kate XXXXXX on January 11, 2009, 02:45:17 AM
Hemp is tough.  It doesn't mind getting wet.  It liked to be dried out fully, though.  Let's face it, until artificial ropes came along, hemp was one of the fibres used for ship rigging, and that got wet all the time!  Hemp has many properties in common with linen, though it tends to be rather coarser.

Experiment with the zip foot.  I think, if you sew all the channels from one side, you'll end up with a sort of corduroy effect, with it flat on the underside, so you might want to try sewing the channels alternately from either side...  The other thing is that if you read the notes on the construction of the first corset you like, she made this with TWO cords through each channel, so you might like to experiment with this idea...  She fed the cord through folded in half and snipped though it to get the cord feeding tool out.  Very ingenious.
Title: Re: Can we talk about hemp boning and corsets again?
Post by: mollymishap on January 11, 2009, 01:42:45 PM
Gem, have you read http://www.festiveattyre.com/research/cording/cord.html (http://www.festiveattyre.com/research/cording/cord.html) from Jen's website?  It's a little hard to find.  Does it help?  I've never tried the process myself, so hth!
Title: Re: Can we talk about hemp boning and corsets again?
Post by: gem on January 11, 2009, 01:54:06 PM
Molly, yep--that's the link in my first post.  ;)

Kate--doubling up the cord is where I run into trouble.  I did read yesterday that a couple of costumers had tried single widths and that it worked--I did a test patch of that and wasn't that impressed with its rigidity; maybe I should try narrowing my channels and doing single width?
Title: Re: Can we talk about hemp boning and corsets again?
Post by: Kate XXXXXX on January 11, 2009, 01:57:36 PM
Whichever you do, the cord needs to be very snug inside the boning channels.  Choose the smoothest hemp cord you can find, either way...  Doing a single cord will give a finer and much softer finish.
Title: Re: Can we talk about hemp boning and corsets again?
Post by: peggyelizabeth on January 11, 2009, 11:10:13 PM
I've done it a couple of times, I did make the channels first and then using wire made a hook like thing to pull it through. It wasn't easy, but it does work well. The biggest thing to keep in mind that whatever you use to pull the cord, it's going to get caught in the fabric unless you're very careful.

As for washing, I've washed mine without any problems, seems to me that there's a reason hemp was used by sailors for so long, it take water well and doesn't lose structural integrity.
Title: Re: Can we talk about hemp boning and corsets again?
Post by: operafantomet on January 12, 2009, 06:35:31 AM
I'm not actually sure how H/A hemp boning is (as the few early 16.th century sources on boning/stiffening only mentions cardboard). What I DO know is that it offers one of the best methods to make dresses in early/high Renaissance styles, and it it is one of the most comfortable ones I've tried. I've used it for these two dresses:

http://www.geocities.com/pisslei/raphael
http://www.geocities.com/pisslei/unicorn

Getting the hemp cord through the channels is a bit hard, I agree. I usually sew the channels first. Then I use a big crocheting needle (? I think that's what it's called in English), squeeze the hemp cord through the eye and makes the cord long enough to be able to fold it double. And here's the trick: the needle is pushed into the channels backwards, with the eye/non-sharp end first. You have to have something really sturdy to be able to push at the sharp tip (like a metal object with a small "grope"), because you have to push the needle through. But this works! The needle is almost never caught in the fabric.

When all channels are "stuffed", I usually sew a horizontal seam to secure that the threads stay in place. That's why I love hemp boning - you can cut it, sew in it, and you don't have to bind the ends. Aaaah! Bliss.

I've never tried to wash any of the bodices (as they are sewn to the skirt and has lots of trims etc. which I'm not sure how would react to eachother). But good quality hemp should be possible to wash! As another pointed out, it just needs it time to dry properly. Don't superheat it, it might react differently than the fabric.

ETA: I used a much lighter hemp cord for the Unicorn dress than the orange Maddalena Doni dress. I prefer the thinner cord, as it gives a lighter (but just as sturdy) result. The Unicorn cord smelled like a barn when I bought it (and when I used it...), but the dress doesn't smell. Thank God...
Title: Re: Can we talk about hemp boning and corsets again?
Post by: mollymishap on January 12, 2009, 07:47:45 AM
QuoteMolly, yep--that's the link in my first post.  Wink

DUH!!!  ::)  That's what I get for not clicking on your link before replying.  I automatically assumed it went to the picture of her red finished corset.

You know you've been reading other people's dress diaries too long when...
Title: Re: Can we talk about hemp boning and corsets again?
Post by: Lady Kathleen of Olmsted on January 12, 2009, 12:24:24 PM


One of first corsets I made when a the Costume Shop was an 18th Century Hemp boned corset. It took me forever to make it. I did use a zipper foot and sewed each channel as tightly as I could. Binding the corset was another things entirely. I can't begin to tell you how many machine needles I broke.

I personally perfer using Plastic Coated Metal Bones or Heavy Duty Cable Ties for corsets.
Title: Re: Can we talk about hemp boning and corsets again?
Post by: operafantomet on January 12, 2009, 01:34:16 PM
Quote from: Lady Kathleen of Olmsted on January 12, 2009, 12:24:24 PM

One of first corsets I made when a the Costume Shop was an 18th Century Hemp boned corset. It took me forever to make it. I did use a zipper foot and sewed each channel as tightly as I could. Binding the corset was another things entirely. I can't begin to tell you how many machine needles I broke.

Why did the needles break? I've experienced that with rigilene, but not with hemp cord. Was it too thick?
Title: Re: Can we talk about hemp boning and corsets again?
Post by: Lady Kathleen of Olmsted on January 12, 2009, 01:52:53 PM


Because the channels were very close together, there was thickness. The hemp cord was not huge, but the cord added thickness all the same.

Title: Re: Can we talk about hemp boning and corsets again?
Post by: Kate XXXXXX on January 12, 2009, 04:08:08 PM
What machine and what size needle were you using?
Title: Re: Can we talk about hemp boning and corsets again?
Post by: gem on January 12, 2009, 04:51:50 PM
Well, I will say that I broke a couple needles sewing *through* the hemp cord on my test swatches, on my sew-through-anything workhorse Brother, so I'm always surprised when people say they sew through it!

I'm wondering if I don't have the right cord.  Does someone have a mail-order source for some good-quality stuff?

And Operafan, *thank you.*  You're the first person who's actually admitted to having any kind of difficulty getting the cords pulled through!  The method Milord and I finally perfected involved me pulling on the canvas, and him pulling on the cord--but I don't know if he's really up to helping me bone a full corset or bodice!!

The nice thing about cable ties is that they're so rigid--which is *also* why they won't work for the early Italian gowns, which have a lovely curve over the bust.
Title: Re: Can we talk about hemp boning and corsets again?
Post by: Mythrin on January 12, 2009, 06:43:55 PM
Yes, I am the one that uses windshield wiper blades as a hemp boning tool ;D  I love hemp boning, it strong, comfortable, cool, easy to care for (machine wash, line dry) and versatile.  I have used the channels as part of the design of the bodice, hidden it under a garment while making it an actual part of the dress.

Now that I have finished my promotional "advertisement" on hemp boning let me say that I PUSH it into the channels as apposed to pulling it through the channels as most of the discussion has been about.  I find it easier, faster and I only have to worry about finishing the bottom edge and not the top.  Also I have more options as to how it can used.  I decided that a picture is worth a thousand words and put together a quick and dirty web album of some photos of working with hemp boning and my infamous funky tool and some of the garments I have made with it.    I have found that if I use leather needles and go slow that my Singer can sew through hemp all day.  I generally sew the binding on the front with the machine and hand sew the other side of the binding so that I can make sure that it stays snug all round.

I sew the channels using the foot as my size guide.  I find that with my Singer and a standard foot that if I use the right hand needle setting and the left hand edge of the foot I have the perfect size for a snug fitting channel.  As KateXXX pointed out, smooth hemp counts.  I will cut my hemp a few inches longer than I need so that I can fold it in half at a particularly smooth area prior to inserting into the start of the channel and still have enough length.  I then slip my windshield wiper blade in that fold and push.  If it starts to bind I will use hemostats or needle-nose pliers to give me more grip. Another trick I have learned is to pinch the fold of the hemp into a point with the pliers so that it fits easily into the channel.  Another trick I learned is to leave an inch or two of extra fabric, both lining and front, on the bottom and make sure to stop my channel at the actual hem line.  The reason is that the extra fabric becomes a handle for me to pull, work and otherwise make the hemp slide into the channel.  I then trim the excess.

http://picasaweb.google.com/MythrinFarm/HempBodice# (http://picasaweb.google.com/MythrinFarm/HempBodice#)
Title: Re: Can we talk about hemp boning and corsets again?
Post by: gem on January 12, 2009, 07:51:20 PM
Oh, Mythrin, I *heart* you.  Thank you *so much* for putting that together!!  I do remember pictures of the blue bodice from my earlier whinging about this.

One thing I've noticed--your channels definitely look a pinch wider than mine.  I am going to give this another try.  I bet I can find some kind of metal doo-dad that will work like your wiper blade (I have a super-long, skinny crochet hook, but it doesn't do well to hook around the hemp; and the tube turner dealie I have isn't long enough or sturdy enough; and I seem to have trouble with wire catching in the canvas.)  With the hemostats or pliers--are they long enough if the hemp catches up in the *middle* of the channels?
Title: Re: Can we talk about hemp boning and corsets again?
Post by: Kate XXXXXX on January 13, 2009, 02:41:22 AM
Fascinating.  Thank you.
Title: Re: Can we talk about hemp boning and corsets again?
Post by: Lady Kathleen of Olmsted on January 13, 2009, 10:27:57 AM


THanks for the photos, Mythrin!!!! Seeing them makes better sense of hemp for corsets.

Kate!!  The machine I used in the shop was a heavy duty Pfafff and Leather needles of all things. That was the summer of 2000 when I did that corset. I have not made a hemp corset since.
Title: Re: Can we talk about hemp boning and corsets again?
Post by: Mythrin on January 13, 2009, 11:53:57 AM
I suspect once you all (read those interested) get a handle on hemp boning you too will become a fan. 

Gem, the hemostats/pliers are used to give me more push if necessary.  I put them on perpendicular to the hemp pushing devise about 1 inch in front of the channel and with my left hand lightly holding the fabric down on the table.  The bodice is just on the edge of the table and the pliers hang over the edge.  I push hard with the pliers, move them back and do it all again.  If you have much more than an inch of blade being pushed on you can kink your devise. 

I would guess that I only have to get out the pliers for 1 in 4 of the channels, the rest of the time the flat end of the devise gives me a comfortable place to push against.  If it starts to bind, I get out the pliers to prevent kinking or bending the wiper blade devise.  What is nice about the wiper devise is that I can bone up to 16 inch long channels, obviously the shorter the channel the easier it is to insert hemp into.
Title: Re: Can we talk about hemp boning and corsets again?
Post by: Artemisia on January 13, 2009, 01:23:30 PM
I just used hemp for my recent completed project.

I also use the width of my sewing foot as the channel width. I use 1/16" cord instead of the 1/8". The wider stuff stiffens way too much and doesn't "bend" for me. I also didn't cord the entire length of the bodice - I corded every one inch.
(http://i42.tinypic.com/21cwmfd_th.jpg)

I also used treated hemp cord and a loop turner to thread the hemp cord. The raw stuff shrunk about an inch after washing the gown several times.

(http://i40.tinypic.com/140vssi_th.jpg)
Here's a video so you too may be convinced of its power:
http://s6.photobucket.com/albums/y236/theartemis/dressdiary/?action=view&current=120108017.flv

I wrote lots more about this in my dress diary.  ;)
Title: Re: Can we talk about hemp boning and corsets again?
Post by: gem on January 14, 2009, 03:25:33 PM
Ok, so I was at JoAnn today and picked up some really stiff floral wire, a ball-point bodkin (http://www.threadandmore.com/ProdImages/ballpoint%20bodkin.jpg), an "Ezy-Pull" bodkin (http://www.stitchesbyannie.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/DritzEZPullBodkin706.jpg), and a pair of needle grips (http://www.createforless.com/InterchangeData/images/3/2000/1006/2007051617445662000-1006-0181.jpg) (closest thing to a hemostat I could find).  Surely, SOMETHING will work.

I am wondering about cord thicknesses, though.  The circa 2002 dress diaries all say 1/8" cord (or 1/16"), but all the cord I'm finding is measured in millimeters (or weight).  I looked at some 3 mm cord at JoAnn (not hemp), and that looked like it was close in size to the 1/8" cord, but it's hard to say. Does anyone have a supplier of *really good* quality cord?  I saw some online that said "polished" or "waxed," which sounded promising, but again--what do I know?
Title: Re: Can we talk about hemp boning and corsets again?
Post by: Cilean on January 20, 2009, 03:49:09 PM


I was able to be part of Lizapalooza which was a 2 day discussion with Drea Leed.  She had some
examples of 'stuffings' some modern like chop sticks and others if you click on the next picture there are the chop stick experiments.

http://picasaweb.google.com/Cilean/DreaLeedSTalkForCostumeTalk#5199667940704017170 (http://picasaweb.google.com/Cilean/DreaLeedSTalkForCostumeTalk#5199667940704017170)

Quick note on washing of the Hemp Cord, I did that and allowed it to air dry and it was not as stiff but still held my DD's. My channels are 1/4" and very well stuffed
and stayed pretty well and I did not get the chance to use the PoB because of weight loss.

Title: Re: Can we talk about hemp boning and corsets again?
Post by: Tixi on January 23, 2009, 07:49:47 AM
I'm intrigued by the idea of hemp boning...  What width hemp did you all use, and where did you get it?
Title: Re: Can we talk about hemp boning and corsets again?
Post by: gem on January 23, 2009, 08:42:41 PM
Hail and well met, Mmeeooow!  Welcome to the boards!

If you go back and look through the posts in this thread, you can kind of see what people used--particularly Mythrin's slide show, and the post from Artemisia with the photos and video.  It seems like there's *a lot* of variation.  Artemisia had great results with this really tiny cord almost like thread, and the stuff Mythrin uses is as thick as yarn.  That's what I finally got to work, too.  I *think* it's the 1/8" cord--2 widths fit in a scant 3/8" channel.  I found my spool at Hobby Lobby for $10, tho' I know JoAnn carries the narrower stuff.

(edited for spelling)
Title: Re: Can we talk about hemp boning and corsets again?
Post by: mollymishap on January 24, 2009, 12:47:24 PM
OK, so I went to the only place in town (Walmart--I live in a small town) that has any craft supplies and the choices in hemp were in the beading aisle and comprised of either a few hanks of variously dyed thin hemp or one ball of natural un-dyed thin hemp.  I bought the ball of thin hemp.  It's either the same as or very similar to this one I found online: http://www.thebeadery.com/product_p/1890.htm (http://www.thebeadery.com/product_p/1890.htm).

So this is where I'm stuck: I came home and used my nifty turner thingie and pulled the hemp through my channels.  Thing is, the head of the nifty turner thingie is larger than the width of the hemp so that in order to stuff the channels properly I either have to double up on the hemp (=quadruple strands per channel) or just let the one double strand hang out rather loosely in the channel.

Is this ok?  The consensus seems to be to stuff the channels tightly, but is it ok to have 4 strands per channel?
Title: Re: Can we talk about hemp boning and corsets again?
Post by: gem on January 24, 2009, 03:10:49 PM
Molly, you corset-making fool. LOL  My understanding is that when you use the wee skinny hemp, you *do* use 4 per channel.