Please Note: No offense meant to those whose opinions and ideas differ from mine. This is a free country, and everybody can do whatever they want. If you post something back in this thread, please be mindful of others' feelings, don't make it a personal attack, and keep it positive, ok?
This is my opinion only.
I've been reading different thoughts about the upcoming RenDezvous at Scarborough in April, 2010. I'm reading about Steampunk, Alice in Wonderland, etc. Steve and I are flying 900 miles each way, taking 4 days off work, spending 5 nights in a hotel, renting a car, in short, spending lots of money - which will be our vacation for the year - to go to a Renaissance Festival.
And that's what I prefer to see. People at a Renaissance Festival wearing garb for a Renaissance Festival, not top hats, goggles, etc. I think there is a place for these different things, just not at a Renaissance Festival, and as part of the Forum get-together, I just don't feel it is appropriate at the RenDezvous. The reason we joined this forum is our love of Renaissance, why wouldn't people want to wear the garb that brought us together in the first place?
Am I the only one who feels this way?
No you are not alone with this feeling. I feel the same way. If this were a fantasy forum and we went to fantasy festivals this would be fine.
I didn't like it when Des Moines Ren Faire had Prince Charming on cast. It just didn't feel right.
I agree with you, Renee. It's quickly becoming cosplay (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cosplay (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cosplay)) instead of Ren faire. ::)
A "Day of Wrong" is fine and dandy. Not an entire faire run of it, though.
I agree with you completely! Rendezvous is Rendezvous and thats what I would like to see myself. But thats just my opinion.
Let me add that I know all kinds of different people walk thru the gates dressed as everything and thats just the way it is at faire BUT to try to organize a different invasion of something other than RENN FAIRE well. . . . . . just my opinion.
I agree that over the years, the whole idea of the Faires has become more homogenized. And I'm certainly not at all a garb nazi or insistent that all be h/a. I did live through the times when you had to pass muster with Phyllis Patterson personally inspecting everyone before the gates opened, so maybe I'm just an old curmudgeon. But here are my thoughts on it.
To completely go out of anything even close to era seems somehow more like it belongs to another type of festival to me. I can see medieval stuff passing at Renaissance, pirates passing at the time period as well. Even faeries actually originally were not generally seen outside of being in the performances of the plays of the era (although they certainly were believed in by the general populace of the day). But when you start getting too futuristic (Steampunk, Elvis, or Star Wars), you may as well just call it a costume party. Which isn't what it is. Not that I don't enjoy costume parties. Cosplay, RP and Fantasy faires are fun, but they are a different ball of wax.
I can understand why everyone feels that it is out of place at a ren faire but I've always appreciated the fact that whoever you are, wherever you are, you can come to the faire and dress however you like, and have fun. Would it probably be more at place at Comic Con or a convention or festival related to it- yes. I can't control what people do or how they dress when they walk through the gates into our faire, and to be honest, I don't want to.
As for the way things are regarding the Rendezvous, there is no theme nor will any non-Ren related events be sponsored by the Rendezvous. Because people have voiced their opinion on the matter and we have even been told that some people will not come due to the non-Ren related things such as a SP invasion or other, we ask that those things be organized elsewhere and non in correlation with the Rendezvous.
I just want everyone to come to Scarborough and enjoy what it has to offer, to see it for yourselves. To join us for a weekend to meet other forum members, see friends and fairemily from across the country, and to drink and be merry. It will make me sad that something like this will cause people to not want to. I can understand that you are spending great amounts of money and taking time off work to travel so you can join us so we will continue to try to do everything to make your time here as wonderful as possible.
I can guarantee, a very sparingly few people dressed otherwise will not change how incredible our cast or artisans are, or change magic of our shire.
El, I'm sorry. I'm so sorry. I have to call rubbish on all that. Absolute rubbish. It's not a free-for-all. It's a Renaissance festival. Steampunk is speculative Victorian sci-fi. The rest is cosplay (see my above post). There are other, more appropriate venues for brass goggles and lightsabres.
Quote from: Mad Jack Wolfe on November 26, 2009, 08:44:01 PM
El, I'm sorry. I'm so sorry. I have to call rubbish on all that. Absolute rubbish. It's not a free-for-all. It's a Renaissance festival. Steampunk is speculative Victorian sci-fi. The rest is cosplay (see my above post). There are other, more appropriate venues for brass goggles and lightsabres.
There are better venues, such as conventions for lightsabres and brass goggles. I've been to both.
My opinion is that it doesn't make my experience worse or better if a few people come to faire wearing whatever they would like.
You are allowed to feel however you would like about all of this.
But I can't control what everyone does, and I'm sorry that you all feel so strongly about it.
I hope you don't think ill of us for those very few that we can't control coming into Scarborough dressed as such.
While I take some poet license with my garb I try to at least imply Elizabethan. The Steam Punk definitely looks out of place but I don't mind it at all if it's tastefully done. And some folks look just awesome in their outfits. I have a hard time not stopping and staring at some of the elaborate contraptions that folks have put together. At least they are not dressing like Harry Potter. :D
No one expects you to be responsible for the actions of othesr, El. I'm just saying that things have gotten really skewed as of late, and, in my opinion, it's time for a course correction. Whether that happens or not is up to much higher powers. But don't think anyone will be boycotting your faire because of the actions of a few misguided souls.
El, I think the point Renee was trying to get across was she didn't want to see any organized events like the Alice in Wonderland thing or Steampunk Invasion.
We all know that no one can control what others wear. You can't say, 'You can't come because you are dressed differently.'
Nickie summed it up perfectly--it is going from Renaissance to a 'costume party'.
I really wish I could say I gave a rat's arse but I just don't anymore.
Quote from: Welsh Wench on November 26, 2009, 10:32:27 PM
I really wish I could say I gave a rat's arse but I just don't anymore.
Hear, hear, love. My thoughts as well.
I am thankful for this forum and all the friends I have made here.
Have fun and enjoy each other's company at Rendevous. Cause that's what the Rendevous is about,
Quote from: Mad Jack Wolfe on November 26, 2009, 10:51:28 PM
Quote from: Welsh Wench on November 26, 2009, 10:32:27 PM
I really wish I could say I gave a rat's arse but I just don't anymore.
Hear, hear, love. My thoughts as well.
Quote from: Mad Jack Wolfe on November 26, 2009, 10:51:28 PM
Quote from: Welsh Wench on November 26, 2009, 10:32:27 PM
I really wish I could say I gave a rat's arse but I just don't anymore.
Hear, hear, love. My thoughts as well.
Triple ditto on that. Storm-troopers in a kilt...though amusing...man, I have to shake my head every time.
eloquent, I am sorry that people have decided not to come because they think there may be "other" types of dressing. Since Steve and I bought our tickets months ago, I didn't mean to imply that we didn't want to come, and I certainly hope you don't think I am criticizing Scarby. On the contrary, we are excited to see this faire and our Forum friends since the last RenDezvous we went to and meet new Forum members.
And guess what? I've seen Steampunk at Bristol - only a little bit this summer. I missed out on the Star Trekkers if there were any, but I also think Lady Nicolette summed it up best. I want to go to a Renaissance faire. Not a costume party.
And of course, nobody expects you or other RenDezvous organizers, no matter what faire the RenDezvous is held at, to control what anybody is wearing. I'm just glad it won't be incorporated as an official event into this RenDezvous.
This girl just wants to have fun! ;D
I'm glad things have chilled out a bit on this topic. My observation has been that the Texas faires (TRF & Scarby) are the most heavily attended by folks in garb and costume. As a result, many want to come be part of the fun - and choose to wear something beyond their day-to-day clothing (mundanes, "naked", etc.). That does lead to some "blending", true. However the LARGEST CONTINGENT is our own beloved - playtrons in garb. There will be more than enough Rennies to keep the spirit of the Faire as it should be - heck our own King is a member here (VIII).
My experience is, if you go in, railing against the contrast (SP, Alice, etc.), THEN that is ALL you will see. The more attention you give it, the more there will be. In fact, through the Law of Attraction - you'll even bring more of it into your reality. I say, focus on the R/Fers who will be there, the discovery of a wonderful Faire, and enjoy the event.
I for one, can hardly wait to go and see this bonny bunch of R/Fers, my Dear, Dear Texas Friends that I miss more than words are able to describe, the friends I know, and the friends I haven't met yet.
And now, One thing I really want to ask - because it's naggin' at me - - -
Does anybody read the title of this thread - and NOT have Peter Frampton's "Do ya feel like we do?" playing in your noggin?
I definitely don't think that Renee was suggesting in the least that the event be boycotted! So let's put that idea to rest.
For my own opinion, I do feel that the more of us that keep the tradition of garbing for Faire in the most appropriate garb we can afford is a good thing and will help keep the Faires alive as what they are and have been for the 36 years I've been going.
Throughout those years, there have always been people who wear out-of-period garb or just what they wear every day (in the 70's at Agoura, there was no shortage of Rod Stewart and David Bowie wannabes) and it didn't stop the Faire or make it a drag (pun!) to attend, nor will the coming and going of all other styles and era that we might see.
I think it's more a point of, if you know how to play in the period, you'll be encouraging more people who don't to join in the next time. Which is all a part of keeping the Faires alive, which is something that I think most people would agree upon in these forums, which were started as a celebration of the Faires and a way to meet others who also enjoyed attending them.
And yes, Molden...I certainly do!
If I may weigh in here just a bit. If you think SteamPunk is bad(Hell I don't even know who they are or what they look like), you should have been at TNRF some years back when we had a group of transgender folks in. This was their outing to complete their transgender re-assignment process, talk about some wild outfits that absolutely did not fit the period, W O W!!!!!!!! I think I could have handled Star Trek stormtroopers better, at least I knew what they were, this crew did not have a clue.
I can't believe how my question got skewed. All I said was that going to RenDezvous, I hoped that there wouldn't be sponsored invasions of anything else besides Renaissance stuff, because it is a Renaissance Forum event, and did anybody else feel that way.
At no time did I suggest anyone boycott this faire, or that people didn't want to go because of "other" styles of clothing, or that anyone would go to this faire and "rail" against those dressed differently.
My gosh, people, there was no "chilling" about this topic at all. I asked a question.
And maybe I shouldn't do that anymore, if people are going to get all up in arms over things.
*the normally laid-back Renee who is known as a peacekeeper walks away because she is starting to get very frustrated at simple things being turned into drama*
To answer Lady Renees' basic question; Yes, sometimes I do...... BUT
This topic comes up a lot, and I'll admit that several years ago I was among the folks who bridled at any garb or even elements of garb, that I found to non HA or otherwise an anachronism in the faire setting. Personally I've gotten over that! People are gonna do it, nobody is gonna change it, I do it, and I've come to think its a good thing that folks want to do something to get into the spirit of faire, so I wouldn't want to discourage it. It's better than showing up in the baggy cargo shorts and crocs they might wear otherwise!
I seem to be in a lot of groups that have this issue! I recall we had some folks from the TRF cast come to our local Sci-fi convention here in Houston to promote the faire. I thought it was nice, I see a lot of cross-over of Sci-Fi with the 'fantasy' of faire, and many folks I know really get into both, but there were actually people there who thought it was "inappropriate" to mix ren-faire with Sci-Fi! Nothing like a 40 year old man in a Harry Potter school uniform saying some faries, princesses and elves are inappropriate at a Sci-Fi con! It all led to infinitely boring discussions that evening where I found myself hearing and using words like parachronism or prochronism or chronological anomaly, which nobody should have to say unless their gonna be graded on it !
So, is the Steampunk, Wonderland, Ster Trek and Star Wars kids' garb more fantasy than R/F ? sure, but so are barbarians, fairies, chicks in chainmail, elves, rangers, pirates of the Caribbean, belly dances, gypsys, most kilts, turkey legs, bathing, etc.......But...
Faire would be a less interesting place without them!
You know, to me the great thing about faire is the fact that you get to see and meet all kinds of people, patrons and those in garb as well. That such divergent groups can come together and interact,generally peacefully is in part some of the magic that I enjoy about those special weekends.
The ALRF in Oct. was the last faire I attended, I was fortunate in that I was able to bring along a friend of my brother's who had never been to faire.Doing so was enjoyable, for many reasons, not least was the fact that I was able to play guide to someone who had no idea what a ren-fest was all about.He asked many questions, answering them reminded me about many basic reasoning about what I do what I do as well as why there are faires.
We saw people garbed as typical rennies, goths, steam punk, pirates,belly dancers, fantasy and there was even a bag piper in kilt.Explaining each "type" and their possible reasons and motivations reminded me of the diversity and the common eclectic motivation behind why people garbed and role played regardless of the theme.The fact that one in twenty maybe even fifty people was garbed shows that the willingness to "role play" by adults is uncommon and something worthy of note.
You will never be able to compel anyone to not express their interests at faire any more then you can keep bikers or transgenders or even rednecks from participating and I am not sure we should try. For me when I encounter someone who is obviously out of place,like the gent I met garbed as Abraham Lincoln at the TNRF,I generally take the opportunity to talk to them and try and understand what they are up to.Afterwards I thought that it might have made for an interesting photo op, for anyone who observed that, possibly titling such a shot as "Lincoln confers with his chief wizard, before the battle of Gettysburg".
I must confess that when I first encountered someone in steam punk garb, I felt like Lady Renee, "there is someone out of "phase" garbing", until my brother's friend's perspective reminded me that in most people's eyes we both would appear odd regardless of being at faire or not.The forums are enjoyable because, in spite of differences we all share our love of faire,being able to interact, express our opinions and share our view points is why we are all here. Whether I agree with someone here or not, I would hate to think that anyone would feel like they couldn't or shouldn't be able to express their opinions and think that we would all lose something in that case.
***shaking head and thinking how the subject got off track and somewhat twisted***
I think the idea of the discussion was more of whether or not R/F.com as a group should do this, not whether it's right or not for anyone else to. I can definitely see it as a "day of wrong" event or even an after-hours event, but somehow at Faires, it seems to me that we should try and promote Faire appropriate events. Hey! Some people have to make it in mundanes, too, due to whatever circumstances (including many of our members)...I think it was more of a "should R/F.com do this as a part of the RenDevous?"
Sorry for the late response, I was gone to TRF all weekend and was out of reach of computers and almost all tech for three days.
Renee, when I mentioned that people had voiced their opinion of not coming at all, that was not directed at you. It was of someone who had contacted as the organizers outside of this and had said that so I apologize greatly if you felt like it was directed at you.
Whats most important to me is that people come and have fun and enjoy their time here. That's all I care about really! :)
While I agree in part that I hope there isn't a sponsored invasion of cross-themensional proportions, I don't really mind it. I think, in part, it's because of all the different non-reality that comes into faire. I mean, for one, you have fae (and no, I'm not bashing here), which is obviously on the mystical side. Granted, this was a time period when the mystical still clung, even as the sciences were taking off. Believing as we do now as a society, it's out of place in the grand scheme of things, but it's something nice to see at faire. What's more, it's widely accepted at faire, despite being out of place! So honestly, in the wider picture, seeing an invasion of roving android ninja facing off against clockwork laser-wielding western pirates, while it might distract from faire, shouldn't detract from it.
Personally, I'd just look at it as the big-hand-in-the-sky-with-the-dice dropping a random encounter on the group.
Well since I can remember a time that Faries, Pirates and even kilts were not accepted or allowed at certain faires, there were just a dozen or so faires at the time. I have seen the "fantasy" part of the "Renaissance" explode as more and more faires have come into being. Now you can go to almost all faires and see elfs, goblins, faries, many centuries of pirates, samarai, wizards as well as a whole cornucopia of other mythical, fantasy and wrong time frame garb.
My personal opinion is that if it gets people in the gate......"time travelers", star trek/wars, steampunk, and feel that the name should be changed to "FANTASY" faire and let all go at it as they wish. Personally, I would find it very hard to find fault with any type of garb at faire when I hang around with so many that do not wear "Historically Correct Renaissance Clothing" and then see some in that same group say, "well mine might be off a few hundred years, but that is just wrong for faire". Come on people, think about what you just said.
I myself have figured out a way to wear my kilt with all the different "re-enactors" From medival to victorian, many different war groups and even steampunk....
Just make sure there is a pub...some Irish, Celtic or Faire style music...and a place for me to gather with my "family" and I am fine with it all. It is all suppose to be FUN....
Ok we can end this and do it on a high note.
Me and Meg are planning one hell of a party. Everyone is gonna come and have a great time. Then, on the last day, everyone is gonna cry and crap cause they don't wanna go home. Then we'll come back here and post our pictures and talk about how we wish we could be back at RenDezvous.
I don't believe that either Meg or myself are planning on incorporating any sort of theme day into the RenDezvous schedule, which is already as full as we're gonna get it. We want to be able to get together, and offer options, but give people the opportunity to see our faire, and see why we love it.
I personally don't dig the Sci-Fi scene at faire, but meh, as long as it's got nothin to do with me, I can sit back and have a beer and a giggle at the whole thing.
Huzzah. . . very well said! I'm sure Lady Renee did not intend on this subject to take the turn it did. I can't wait for Rendezvous to get here, See Ya All Soon!
Huzzah to blue & eloquent for the marvelous celebration they will put on for RenDezvous. ;D
And Lady Joyce Ann is right. I never meant should other eras of dress be or not be worn at faire. Only that I felt I would not like to see that as an official RenDezvous function.
So let's say "goodbye, good riddance" to this, because now all of us know that RenDezvous will be "Ren."
[quote author=Lady Renee Buchanan link=topic=10081.msg211231#msg211231 date=126005213
So let's say "goodbye, good riddance" to this, because now all of us know that RenDezvous will be "Ren."
[/quote]
Renee, since opinions have been asked, I'll offer mine. This forum, and the first RenDevous was simply about folks who love to go to faire coming together, having some laughs and enjoying each others company. No one said a word to anyone about what they were wearing, or if sub groups were having "official" gatherings as part of Rendevous. We all accepted that, whether we ourselves wanted to be a part of that group or not, so that they might add to the tapestry and so it was okay, because in the end we are all sub groups of the same forum. Our gatherings weren't so much "REN". It was about "Faire". It was about meeting each other and having a good time and fairing together. Everyone was made to feel welcome. Certainly no one started a thread shinning a light on one particular group in this open forum. It makes me sad that some of you think this is okay, and I think some of us has forgotten that the word Playtron includes the word "Play".
Anna, thanks for offering your opinion.
Please understand that it's a NON issue at this point, and RenDezvous will be as it always was and always will be- a gathering of like minded individuals that just want to meet and have a good time at faire.
Quote from: blue66669 on December 06, 2009, 12:12:57 PMPlease understand that it's a NON issue at this point
It was never really an issue to begin with, outside of people's personal opinions.
One quote said it best: "Faire is not history as it was, but rather history as we would have liked it to be."
Examining that quote, it stands to reason that the homogenization of different historical and fictional elements is the very essence of the Faire Experience. The fact that Faires tend to incorporate Medieval, Renaissance, Pirate, Fantasy, Fiction, Japanese, Greek, Roman, and holiday themes and the Day of Wrong proves that the homogenization works.
Granted, some elements are considered "off the beaten path" for certain tastes, but in rebuttal, I submit that non-Fairegoers believe that dressing up in heavy, elaborate garb and pretending to be someone you aren't is also "off the beaten path."
It's really all a matter of perspective and opinion, and as they say, opinions are like sphincters: everyone's got one and they all stink.
Blue, I want you to know I appreciate you and Eloquent and all of you who have volunteered to host our invasion this year. My thoughts here are not meant to be unkind....just straight up. I know you all want us to come and enjoy what Scarby has to offer and I know you'll throw a heck of a party for us. I just don't want to see one group be told they cannot have an official function only to find that other groups are told that they may. I want us to be fair, across the board, to everyone that calls this forum home.
Well, since no specific groups have been told that they're going to be having an "official" function...
Elle and I will be posting the RenDezvous events sometime within the current month. It's mostly comprised of Meet and Greets/photo ops for the group, a tour of our faire for those that wish to participate, a couple of period craft courses (if we can pull it off), and dinners outside of faire. There will not be any subgroups with official time on the schedule. RenDezvous is about the WHOLE of us, not about how many cliques we can get to show up.
Thank you. :) To that I will give a resounding HAZZAH!
Let's hope THIS guy doesn't show up:
(http://img683.imageshack.us/img683/5170/darthmcvader.png)
:) ;) :D ;D ::)
,,yeah..but wouldn't it be too awesome if he showed up in tudor garb as say...King Vader the VIII! :)
Funny...Skywalker doesn't sound Scottish to me.... ;D ;)
Quote from: Trillium on December 15, 2009, 10:21:54 PM
Funny...Skywalker doesn't sound Scottish to me.... ;D ;)
Alrigh', thot's it... ye an' yer dog're...!
Do you mean this guy? :D
(http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/2508/darthhenry.jpg)
That's a whole lotta awesome...
LOL...AWESOME!!! (Is that you VIII?)
*Sound of mechanical breathing*
"Elizabeth...I am your Father...."
Ok that does it, we will all have to come naked
Okay sounds good. Bring your Vader mask. LMFAO
Leave it to VIII!!!!!!
I have been going to Scarborough Faire/Renaissance Festival for many moons now. This will be my 20th anniversary! Back when I was single and a friend invited me to this cool thing he called Scarborough Faire. I've been hooked ever since. So the Rendesvous takes on a special meaning for me. I have strode the lanes at Scarby (and many other faires and festivals) these 20 years, and mostly been quiet...meeting only a few new folks each year. This year, I hope to make hundreds of new friends. I believe this shall be a wonderful event, full of color, laughter, fellowship, much hugging and hand-shaking and loads of fun. Whatever part I play, that part will be special and fit in comfortably with the many great memories that I have of from visiting our beloved village. Blue and El, thanks and you know I stand and await your direction as to how you need us to help. I look forward to meeting you all.........huzzah! and throw wide the gates....
Thank goodness Good King Henry has a sense of humor! Otherwise he would have never been able to handle the Pretender to the throne of France. (giggles)
Quote from: Lairde Guardn MCrack on December 04, 2009, 08:58:02 PM
Just make sure there is a pub...
Well said, M'Lairde, well said!
I know that the Marylanders will be there in The Spirit of Ren...I shall be kilted, circa 1314 or so...the earliest period eye-wear I can find that works for my myopia is frames circa 1780, but hey, it beats running into the furniture all day...
love to all, and whatever you wear, remember, "No plumbers crack allowed"...
8)
In the past I've worn some goofy non HA stuff for themed weekends, obviously just for the theme (think pirate wolverine from x-mas for fantasy weekend), and nowadays I basically stick to my fae characters, since our home faire is fairy friendly (and hires fae on cast). I always feel out of place portraying my faun, but it goes over so well that even cast members take photographs, so I just can't deny an audience. But yeah I started seeing steampunk VENDORS this year and I was like WAIT...WHAT?
Quote from: Amras Elfwine on April 17, 2010, 02:18:52 PM
love to all, and whatever you wear, remember, "No plumbers crack allowed"...
8)
Best quote that I've seen all day. LOL.