Just curious and seeking some discussion. Are other musicians/groups seeing a decline in CD sales? Our CD sales this past summer were much lower than past years and I'm not sure if it is economy driven or are people starting to want to download everything and not carry a CD out the door. I've done some general research and many believe the CD will be obsolete by 2015. We would be due to record our 6th CD this winter and I am just not convinced one way or another whether we should. Any thoughts?
We're planning a new CD for next year's run. So far we haven't had any trouble selling them. There are certain crowd-pleasing songs in our set list that aren't widely recorded that sell the CDs for us.
CD sales are our largest source of revenue. I think that's true for nearly all musical groups that perform at fests.
I suppose we could sell memory sticks with MP3s on them instead. They cost a little more than CDs, but not much.
As a consumer, I think it would be great to be able to pay and download music directly from my favorite groups' websites. Rather like Amazon.com does with some of their music, you know? I have no idea how easy or difficult that would be to set up, though.
Setup varies based on whether using a program or not, and knowledge with coding.
That having been said, it is a feature that comes with Zen cart..
I know Tartanic is on iTunes, and think more Ren-players should look into it. I don't have a clue what the process is, but it could be worth it; I have all of Tartanic just because it is on iTunes.
I buy cds at faire. I do buy single songs from iTunes but it's from acts I like that are at faires I can't attend.
Here's a response from another consumer - in the 40's - 50's age range. We buy CDs at faire. I have never downloaded one thing in my life, and neither have most of my friends. I would check the age range at your shows. This is a complete generalization, not set in concrete. But a lot of older people either don't feel comfortable with downloading because they don't really know how to do it, or don't want to do this. So if you have a mostly younger audience, then not producing CDs and downloading may be the way to go. But if your audience is older, although some may embrace this, a lot will not do it. I'd rather buy a CD at faire, take it home, and put it in my player and press a button to listen, rather than going on the computer and paying to download songs. My own preference, not a blanket statement.
If your electronic medium crashes, then you would still have the CD's. Luckily, I have a computator that can upload CD's for recording onto my MP3 player, so I should be able to keep my music for the life of the CD's.
Thanks everyone! I appreciate the input. I am looking into CD Baby (which then helps you get into ITunes) and other media like flash drives. Keep the thoughts coming, it is very helpful!
Regarding the age of your crowd: Well, I'm in my mid-40's, and I prefer to download over buying a CD. So I don't know as age really has a lot to do with it. Most of the people that I associate with are computer savvy enough that downloading tracks for purchase is a viable alternative. I'm not saying to go SOLELY with that, but offering it as an option (whether you offer individual tracks, full CD's, or both) only serves to increase your marketplace opportunities.
Regarding having a CD as backup: Once I've downloaded a track / CD, I usually burn myself a copy to serve as a backup and to use in my living room stereo system, which has a 300 CD changer and a 400 CD changer linked together. (Hubby and I are still working on filling 'em. The 300 is full, but we've still got space in the 400! *grin*).
Just my two pence. :)
I'd stay away from flash drives. Using them for music distribution strikes me as gimmicky -- and since I work in marketing, I have seen a lot of gimmicks come and go and stick folks with a lot of weird swag.
I personally prefer CDs. I buy CDs, mostly at faires, and I don't download music. Now, things may be different if you can set up point-of-sale downloads directly to my personal music device right at faire, but until then, I'm buying CDs.
CDs, always cds. I only use cds in my car, and that is where I listen to most of my music. I can put them on my computer to put them on my froggy MP3 player to listen to at work. It's really nice to have a hard copy, and I can buy a cd at faire and not have to remember what performer(s) I want to buy music from when I get home.
Jade
I still buy CDs. For me, if my hard drive(s) die I want to be able to get back my music.
One thing to remember is if you buy downloads and they are MP3's they dont sound as good as a CD.
MP3's are compressed audio and are missing a lot of sound quality compared to CD's. Some downloads are full CD quality. MP3's are smaller that is why they are so popular.
It is something to keep an eye on.
It is strange how with all this technology we have went backwards in sound quality.
I buy only CDs. I have never downloaded any music, either. I have some GREAT speakers and they dont' connect to my computer in the basement office. I only use them upstairs and all the CDs I have sound fantastic on there! I also hook up my piano keyboard to those speakers.
Quote from: winterland on January 03, 2010, 12:42:18 AM
One thing to remember is if you buy downloads and they are MP3's they dont sound as good as a CD.
MP3's are compressed audio and are missing a lot of sound quality compared to CD's. Some downloads are full CD quality. MP3's are smaller that is why they are so popular.
It is something to keep an eye on.
It is strange how with all this technology we have went backwards in sound quality.
Amen, and most people dont care or don't notice the difference. There's a big difference from playing on a stereo system or just on earbuds.
Quote from: winterland on January 03, 2010, 12:42:18 AM
One thing to remember is if you buy downloads and they are MP3's they dont sound as good as a CD.
MP3's are compressed audio and are missing a lot of sound quality compared to CD's. Some downloads are full CD quality. MP3's are smaller that is why they are so popular.
It is something to keep an eye on.
It is strange how with all this technology we have went backwards in sound quality.
That depends soley on the bit rate at which they were ripped. When buying MP3's, if they don't tell you the bit rate, assume it's low; ie, 128 or less. Ergo. the higher the bit rate, the lower the compression ratio and the better the sound quality. The highest "common" bitrate is 320. A 640 bit rate can be had, but the players/decoders aren't likely designed to be able to play them.
If you are an audiophile and sound quality is your passion then you most likely will be listening to music on CD on stereophile quality equipement (ie, Mark Levison Nº 512 CD/SACD Player with Mark Levinson Nº 326S Pre-Amplifier and Nº 532 Dual Monaural Power Amplifier using Audioquest interconnects and speaker cables to B&W speakers). If portability is your priority, then MP3s on your iPod/whathaveyou will be your focus. Neither is better than the other. It is simply a matter of priority and application. Hence, a tire is not better than a skillet.
Quote from: Rapier Half-Wit on January 03, 2010, 12:22:45 PM
Quote from: winterland on January 03, 2010, 12:42:18 AM
One thing to remember is if you buy downloads and they are MP3's they dont sound as good as a CD.
MP3's are compressed audio and are missing a lot of sound quality compared to CD's. Some downloads are full CD quality. MP3's are smaller that is why they are so popular.
It is something to keep an eye on.
It is strange how with all this technology we have went backwards in sound quality.
That depends soley on the bit rate at which they were ripped. When buying MP3's, if they don't tell you the bit rate, assume it's low; ie, 128 or less. Ergo. the higher the bit rate, the lower the compression ratio and the better the sound quality. The highest "common" bitrate is 320. A 640 bit rate can be had, but the players/decoders aren't likely designed to be able to play them.
If you are an audiophile and sound quality is your passion then you most likely will be listening to music on CD on stereophile quality equipement (ie, Mark Levison Nº 512 CD/SACD Player with Mark Levinson Nº 326S Pre-Amplifier and Nº 532 Dual Monaural Power Amplifier using Audioquest interconnects and speaker cables to B&W speakers). If portability is your priority, then MP3s on your iPod/whathaveyou will be your focus. Neither is better than the other. It is simply a matter of priority and application. Hence, a tire is not better than a skillet.
Yes but if you buy the CD or Cd quality download Wave file etc. then at least you have the high quality audio then can convert into a smaller MP3 for portability. I am actually looking at getting a new turntable and digging the vinlyl albums out. Haven't listened to vinyl in over 10 years.
Quote from: winterland on January 03, 2010, 12:42:18 AM
Yes but if you buy the CD or Cd quality download Wave file etc. then at least you have the high quality audio then can convert into a smaller MP3 for portability. I am actually looking at getting a new turntable and digging the vinlyl albums out. Haven't listened to vinyl in over 10 years.
That's a whole different point and digresses the original subject of the post even further. Yes, what you say is true, however the original post was "Are CDs obsolete, with a secondary sub-thread of what's a better quality media, which is what I addressed.
I am 28 and I buy CDs.
I have downloaded a couple of songs off of Amazon but only because I had a free credit in my account from a promotion.
I am very computer literate- I build them (computers that is)- and I spend probably about 10hrs a day on the computer,hence I hate being on the computer.
I like coming home or sitting in my car and popping in a cd.
I buy CDs at faire and even online from my favorite acts. I have no problem with paying for the shipping of a cd
Thanks everyone for your candid and thoughtful remarks. I believe it means it's back to the studio for us (Crimson Pirates).
Quote from: robin35051 on January 12, 2010, 11:57:56 AM
Thanks everyone for your candid and thoughtful remarks. I believe it means it's back to the studio for us (Crimson Pirates).
Good luck to you in your endeavors good Sir!
FWIW, the O'Danny Girls didn't bother to record a CD this year and instead went with a download card. They sold them hand over fist, but they also offered a discount on the card ($10 instead of $15) and offered an additional discount if purchased along with their old CD.
Quote from: winterland on January 03, 2010, 12:42:18 AM
One thing to remember is if you buy downloads and they are MP3's they dont sound as good as a CD.
MP3's are compressed audio and are missing a lot of sound quality compared to CD's. Some downloads are full CD quality. MP3's are smaller that is why they are so popular.
It is something to keep an eye on.
It is strange how with all this technology we have went backwards in sound quality.
if you encode at 320 the human ear can't tell the difference .. another option is to encode in FLAC which is loseless ..
I've thought about this alot myself when thinking of musicians at a festival. While I thought a USB key would be nice, the consumer wouldn't use it until they got home. So instead, I would say offer either a card with a URL and distribute yourself and hookup with CDBaby and have them host. Or encode and setup your own shopping cart .. There are a ton of open source solutions out there to achieve this if you or someone you know is technically savvy. So I would say this:
1) Offer a CD for instant gratification. I personally purchase CD's and listen to them on the way home from a festival then encode them after I get home.
2) Offer a card or a flier that has a URL address with the ability to download the CD.
Now I know this will date me(as if my photo did not already), but truth to tell I would rather see a vinyl album with nice art work.
Yeah like that's going to happen. I am never on the bleeding edge of technology. The only reason I have CD's is because it is to difficult to get my music on to cassetes, and all of my daily driver cars have CD players in them. My antiques have only radios. I have one car with a cassete in it and I'm trying to sell it, so when it is gone then I am at the mercy of the techno-crats.
Though I keep up with technology (New Squirrel Wagon has MP3 capability), I still prefer the sound of my turntable at home. (Right there with you, BLAKDUKE!) I prefer to buy CD's at faire, and probably will never buy a "down load card".
I don't like keeping up with any gadget small enough to lose. And, I still enjoy classical and 40's Big Band music on my old-style Crosley radio...
Cheers!
As has already been mentioned, CD's provide a backup if you have a catastrophic failure. I've got both a 1.5T external drive and a 160GB Ipod Clasic, but I still want the CD's.
In addition, Sony makes a couple of juke box type players that hold up to 400 CD/DVD/Bluray disks that have an Ethernet connect so that you can identify and categorize them almost automatically. I say almost because the web service used isn't yet 100% complete.
Quote from: replicant on January 14, 2010, 02:45:13 PM
if you encode at 320 the human ear can't tell the difference .. another option is to encode in FLAC which is loseless ..
This is true, and being a live music audiophile I usually keep a high BR MP3 copy of the concert and a FLAC copy. Until I find a decent portable FLAC player I will have 2 copies of my live music collection. I also believe that FLAC encoding or SHN takes a certain amount of audio and computer knowledge to play let alone encode. I just don't think it is a viable alternative for the average listener. But man do I love listening to a screaming concert in FLAC...
Anyway sorry for my ADD
I tend to buy CD's then go home and encode them to MP3. Unless of course I am lucky enough to find live recordings straight in MP3. Most live music today is traded through High BR MP3 or FLAC directly. For example I have been to a modern concert and downloaded the show directly from the Archive (www.archive.org (http://www.archive.org)) the next day. Now in the case of the Renaissance Festival, this is generally not the case. However if a group would record live and encode to a USB flash memory card I would ABSOLUTELY buy it.
In summation, I believe that CD's of studio music are just as valuable today as they were five years ago and the discerning listener will know the difference between the CD copy of the master and a lossy encoding. This is why I don't purchase music from iTunes. So if you want I would offer both an encoded copy and a standard CD copy of your latest album
Sound quality aside, if you want to increase your odds of making a music sale beyond a nice tip, you need something in hand to sell to patrons. People are just more likely to make a purchase if you have the product there to place in their hands, rather than making them look you up later on the internet. For most of us, that means burning a CD. It is the cheapest way to physically distribute your work. Some might offer MP3s in some format or another too (you can burn them onto CDs) for the few patrons that don't want to rip their own. You can also produce hybrid CDs that have both CD player and computer files (pre-ripped). I also suggest you put stuff online for those who are diligent enough to look you up. I find, however, that I am more likely to sell singles or just listens online than I am to sell entire collections of downloads.
I usually carry a few professionally packaged CDs and, and a few USB drives with MP3s just because they are so small as to be negligible. Each USB drive also has a mini web site on it and some extra materials (like videos) just because they would fit. The USB drives can be very small, but the only way that I have found to make them cost effective is to buy them as closeout items, and label them myself. Unfortunately, I cannot find them as cheaply as I once did (about $1 each), so I don't think they are nearly as cost effective as just burning a CD (about 20 cents). We just did a short run of 120 CDs with full graphics, cases, booklets, and packaging. With shipping they came to about $3 each. At $15 each our break even point was 24 sales. So now we're up to around 70 sold, with nothing sold online.
I buy CDs, and this is why, a CD is like a book, it's a large object which holds info. And I don't have to power up a CD to get the music, i just throw it in a player and it plays. On the other hand, if I downloaded stuff, not only do I have to have a internet connection, I also have to have an IPOD or other digital device to run the music anywhere else, and some cars won't play MP3's, or have IPod connections and what not, but a CD will always play, unless it's scratched or someone didn't burn it correctly. But, I'd say if corporate America has it's way CD's will be obsolete and internet will be the only way people will get music, because it's all about the merchandising. So keep pumpin out CDs for those that just want to hear music, without having to deal with technology.
Can someone give me a home stereo system or car stereo that plays MP3s from either USB drive or SD memory card? They don't scratch and they are so much smaller than CDs.
I haven't bought a CD in at least eight years. If I can't find it online (that's very rare) then I find something else to listen to.
I actually just bought a cd last week.
I bought it online and was very excited to open the little box that I found in my mail box
and even more excited to get to look at the art work and leaf through the liner notes as I listened to the cd on my balcony.
Auryn is right, when you download music, you don't get the album art, and other goodies that come with cds. I was at a garage sale about a decade ago, and I had the chance to buy a box of albums for $5 and there were alot in it, but I sifted through and chose the few I wanted they were askign liek anikle or dime a piece, but I figured I don't need all those. Later I kicked myself, and my aunt told me I should've bought them just for the album art. And the worst part was they were old sixties band I'd never heard of but when I named them off my uncle said I passed up a bunch of good psychedelic music, and I love that stuff now, that I know what I missed. So I agree with the production of cds and the material that goes with it.
There are always going to be people on both sides of the fence, IMO. Personally, I'm far more interested in the music than the art in the jacket. Some of it is neat, but at the end of the day, I buy the music for the music. I don't buy CD's unless I can't take delivery of the music in any other form anymore.
..which is to say, I purchased two CDs at MNRF last weekend.
It all comes down to what you are going to use the music for, really.
I like the fact I can go online and download just the good songs, but I really like the idea of burning a CD of my purchases, in case the drive takes a shine.
I know from experience that Ipods are prone to a few issues, as are any MP3 player and computer. I would just as soon be able to back my downloads up on hard media than trust my entire library of tunes to loss or accident, which would be the case if you stored them on your computer or a player. Of course the site would be more than happy to sell you all those songs again should the unthinkable happen.
Personally, I'm too much of a tightwad to shell out good money for stuff I already bought once, thus I need CD's. As for storing them in Itunes, etc. as a 'permanent' backup file, I tend to run to the paranoid there. It wouldn't take much of a jump for Itunes to start charging people a fee to store their libraries for longer than, say, a month or two, especially if the files are huge.
It sounds like it's spilt 50/50....so why not have both available?
That way people who want the cd can buy the CD and those that want to download or don't have the funds on hand can download them at a later date....
If it isn't too expensive to do both...go for it....that way all of your bases are covered...just my 2 cents
I agree with Rowen; If the PC goes POOF my music will still be safe on their discs. I don't play the originals once I have them ripped (at very high bit rate =>320) to my PC. That saves the originals from regular wear and tear, and I can play anything I own as I sit here at my PC. And for when I am driving, I play the discs that I have burned myself.
Now if some enterprising music company wants to sell me 640 bit mp3's on SD card, I would consider it.
Quote from: Rapier Half-Wit on September 02, 2010, 11:03:14 PM
I agree with Rowen; If the PC goes POOF my music will still be safe on their discs. I don't play the originals once I have them ripped (at very high bit rate =>320) to my PC. That saves the originals from regular wear and tear, and I can play anything I own as I sit here at my PC. And for when I am driving, I play the discs that I have burned myself.
Now if some enterprising music company wants to sell me 640 bit mp3's on SD card, I would consider it.
I'm with you guys. I buy CDs usually for the main purpose of having a physical back-up. I load the music onto my computer and have it on my mp3 player but there's been at least two times that I've had to wipe my hard drive and then find out afterwards that I didn't save all of my music! T_T Any music I by over the internet, as well, gets copied to a CD.
Yeah, physical back-ups are good. I still like old cameras, as well even though film and processing can be expensive, as opposed to digital, which I do have. you can still view the pics, but if you loose electricity or the computer, you can't look at them.