I just viewed some pictures from BARF and it got me thinking - what type of Faire do you like: Pemanent structure or not?
I thought that BARF had a real festive and quaint look to it. Most of the smaller ones we have progressed to that are temporary are nice, but - well, small. BARF looked fairly big.
We have been to several of the larger ones (ARF, Scarby, MRF (Minn), KCRF, CRF (Colorado)) and really like those, but I also would like to attend a faire like BARF.
BARF is probably a fairly decent mid-sized faire. It's not so tiny that you're constantly reminded it's small, but not so large as to be un-knowable. I only wish it were open for more than a month and a half.
Permanent structure. I mean, the smaller faires are nice and fun and all, and usually have better interaction between people attending. But I'm at the pub for more than half the day, and I prefer to feel like I'm at... a pub. Not the local church festival's beer tent.
Don't get me wrong, though, as long as there's beer and stout, I'm happy either way... ;D That's the real important stuff!
Quote from: RSLeask on February 25, 2010, 05:12:21 PM
Permanent structure. I mean, the smaller faires are nice and fun and all, and usually have better interaction between people attending. But I'm at the pub for more than half the day, and I prefer to feel like I'm at... a pub. Not the local church festival's beer tent.
Don't get me wrong, though, as long as there's beer and stout, I'm happy either way... ;D That's the real important stuff!
Now that is a good point 8)
My answer is - I like 'em both, however - it does depend on the faire.
I originated at Texas Ren Fest, which I condsider the "grand-daddy of 'em all"... By that, I mean it is HUGE, has permanent structures, flushies, pays a great deal of attention to detail, has a large population of playtrons (those of us in garb that do it for the fun). I LOVE that place...then again, it has been and likely will always be my "home" faire. Also, the camping just outside of the gates is a BIG part - even a seperate part in ways of the experience.
I've been to other of the larger faires that I don't have the same fondness for. I won't mention those to avoid any arguements in the thread as everyone has their favorites for their own reasons. Nothing is served by bringing them up...
Then there's CRF, a small (by comparison) permanent structured faire that has many of the top national entertainers at it which belies its decievingly small size. Scarby is an experience unto itself - it reminds me much of GARF in its size and amenities. Both have strong regional followings.
But I also LOVE BARF! Granted, I'm recognized as a patron "saint" there and I am just a little predjudiced... I will say that though it is a tented faire, I LOVE the spirit and people there! It's "vibe" reminds me a lot of another small tent/permanent structured faire - Excalibue when it was in Smithville, TX. I have been to none like it. It will always hold a special place with me...
I like the permanent structures better. It seems like they usually feel more realistic, particularly in the case of Sterling and OK Ren Fest in Muskogee. Plus, usually, permanent structures = better/larger bathrooms. So far, OK Ren Fest wins (the ones in the castle), followed by Scarby. I don't like to chance porta-privies in a farthingale.
MNRF is big, attendance similar to TRF but in a smaller area (crowded at times). I guess you could call the structures "permanent" but some barely so! :)
I also attend a tiny fair up north called Twig. The only "permanent" structure there is the ticket booth, and I have sneaking suspicion it comes delivered on a truck with the port-o-pottys. :)
To me the large fairs have a "Rolling Stones" concert feel to them, loud and brash. You can let your hair down and get lost in the party. Smaller "tent" fairs have a coffee shop gig feel to them, quieter and reflective. If I was forced to choose only one...well bigger is better. I am thankful I don't have to choose.
I prefer permanent structures myself, but there's so much more to a faire than that. I'm also fond of BARF, it's one of the most festive faires I've attended. It's a good sized faire as well, lots to see and do.
I've been to large faires with beautiful buildings and immaculate landscaping, and while the scenery was lovely, the overall feeling was sterile. On the flip side, I've been to smaller and/or tented faires that don't have much flash and sparkle, and had the time of my life. Each faire has its own flavor, regardless of size or architecture.
Wow, Athena hit it very nicely. The large permanent ones are nice, but can feel a bit sterile. The smaller ones are more personal, but lack the variety.
I think I prefer the larger ones, when all is said and done. But, there is a lot of very nice goings-on at smaller faires.
Like Molden, TRF is my home faire. It's big (53 acres) and can be a bit confusing at first but the sights, sounds, smells and that "vibe" set the stage for some of the most wonderful experiances. You don't care that you're lost... wandering around is part of TRF. Some of the buildings have been there for a long time, which lends to the atmosphere. It's like pulling on a pair of old, broken in, shoes... comfortable.
The camping is another subject all together. :D
My gut reaction to that question is that it should be about the people at faire, the cast, entertainment, playtrons etc.. not the 'facilities'.
But I'll see photo's from non permanent faires, and while the subject of the photos looks cool, you'll see a ez-up or steel roofed pavillion in the background, or a chain link fence around the jousting lanes. I hate to say it, but that sort of deminishes the thing in my mind. Not that I would not want to go there, it's just a matter of what I'm used to, I too think of TRF as my home faire, and I think it's size and atmosphere have kind of spoiled me.
I'll always prefer filet mignon but a good old fashioned hamburger patty is good sometimes too.
Permanent is best but smaller ones with temps can be fun. I wont do multiple trips to the smaller ones like I do at the big permanent ones though.
I usually make 10-14 trips to Scarby each season.
me personally, i have mainly been to larger ones, KCRF, MNRF, PARF, NYRF, VARF, but i also appreciate the smaller ones i have went to once in a while too.
something about the permanent structures, and more than the structures, the way the faire has carved a niche into the forest over the course of many many years is what it's all about. like at kcrf, they have cared all the old tree stumps into artwork, some shops go through trees, incorporating their root structures into the store itself.
the established ones just seem so much more real.
I like them all! Each faire is so different. I love the smaller faires for the comraderie and the big ones for the flushies and all the excitement! LOL!
Quote from: kcdcchef on February 26, 2010, 10:38:38 AM
me personally, i have mainly been to larger ones, KCRF, MNRF, PARF, NYRF, VARF, but i also appreciate the smaller ones i have went to once in a while too.
something about the permanent structures, and more than the structures, the way the faire has carved a niche into the forest over the course of many many years is what it's all about. like at kcrf, they have cared all the old tree stumps into artwork, some shops go through trees, incorporating their root structures into the store itself.
the established ones just seem so much more real.
I must say of the few faires I have been to, KCRF was really had a great atmosphere because of what you mentioned above.
I agree, there is much more to faire than the physical grounds, I was centering my comments/question around the grounds only.
I've only been to Bristol once as a performer. (don't much go as a patron anymore).
For me it is not about the structures, it is about the cast!
RPFS is the grandmother of 'em all (48 years, 2 more until the golden!), and we really haven't had a permanent home in ages :-(.
I'm with Noble Dreg- I'm glad that I don't have to choose! I attend MNRF with it's permanent structures and I also attend OWRF in Twig which has no permanent structures but is nestled sweetly in a little clearing surrounded by woods. It is a space well used and that Faire is getting bigger and better every year! =D
I love both types of faires. Although, I must agree with Lady Rebecca about the importance of "nicer" privies at the larger faires when dressed in multiple layers. ;D
I wish BARF would get some permanent structures. It has been around long enough that permanent privies would be nice, at least.
Quote from: ItsTheBishop on March 16, 2010, 11:59:04 AM
I wish BARF would get some permanent structures. It has been around long enough that permanent privies would be nice, at least.
I also agree, but the tented feel of the BARF keeps it close and intimate. The pubs all have permanent structures and some vendors have permanent booths. I think a total rework of BARF with permanent structures would mean losing a lot of tree cover. From what I have seen in pictures from other faires, BARF seems to be blessed with canopy, which in Florida can mean a great deal.
I prefer a blend of both. All permanent structures feels bland, all tents gets kind of bland too (how much canvas can you look at before you get turned around?). It all depends on the feel that you want your faire to portray. Do you want a trading post/caravan feel? More tents than permanent, but get some wood in there as well, a pub, a couple of buildings, a blacksmith. Throw some vardos in there as well, non-permanent structures. Don't forget horses, how did the vardos get there? Do you want a village or town? Equal the ratio out; people have come to settle, but there are still travelers and gypsies with things for sale. A city? More permanent structures; the place has had time to build up and they may still want the traveling merchants, but there may only be a few small places where they are allowed to hawk their wares.
In another way it's not about the type of structure at all, but the quality. Cheap plywood buildings do not an atmosphere make, nor do ez-ups and carports.
The problem comes in when you try to do the wrong thing with the space you have. Lots of land? Don't try to do all tents or your faire will feel sparse and incomplete. Small acreage? All those permanent structures, one on top of another, will feel claustrophobic and make your faire feel even smaller.
Sorry about rambling, I just feel that this is an intregal part to the sucess of a faire. The "feel" when you walk in needs to be right, and the right type of structures is a large part of it. I mean, patrons see the structures and tents even before they know what's in them...
Quote from: Leneas Distara on March 23, 2010, 01:11:55 PM
Quote from: ItsTheBishop on March 16, 2010, 11:59:04 AM
I wish BARF would get some permanent structures. It has been around long enough that permanent privies would be nice, at least.
I also agree, but the tented feel of the BARF keeps it close and intimate. The pubs all have permanent structures and some vendors have permanent booths. I think a total rework of BARF with permanent structures would mean losing a lot of tree cover. From what I have seen in pictures from other faires, BARF seems to be blessed with canopy, which in Florida can mean a great deal.
I know at Bristol they are strict about cutting trees. My Grandma's shop had two trees thru the roof!
Quote from: Dinobabe on March 24, 2010, 08:08:31 PM
Quote from: Leneas Distara on March 23, 2010, 01:11:55 PM
Quote from: ItsTheBishop on March 16, 2010, 11:59:04 AM
I wish BARF would get some permanent structures. It has been around long enough that permanent privies would be nice, at least.
I also agree, but the tented feel of the BARF keeps it close and intimate. The pubs all have permanent structures and some vendors have permanent booths. I think a total rework of BARF with permanent structures would mean losing a lot of tree cover. From what I have seen in pictures from other faires, BARF seems to be blessed with canopy, which in Florida can mean a great deal.
I know at Bristol they are strict about cutting trees. My Grandma's shop had two trees thru the roof!
Now that is awesome!
also, remember that structures do not mean a large faire. Our home faire(TNRF) is not allowed to build permanent buildings, ie four walls. but, i still consider it fairly large. on the flip side, i have been to a faire that had LOTS of room, buildings galore, and no ambiance. there was not interaction between the cast and guests. i believe thats what makes a faire!!!
that being said, i LOVE the buildings! i am so excited to be able to visit GARF and Bristol this year, so i will have my first experience at a large faire!
Although the cast is what puts the Faire over the top, the buildings and/or tents are like the dressed stage at the their play.
I love the village-y feeling I get from a permanent structure Faire, although a few tents here and there give it a feeling like the town is slowly growing, and the tents are more recent arrivals who haven't yet built their more permenent homes.
An all tent faire can be fun, but lacks that rooted feeling. Plus, without permentent structures, it feels almost like the Faire could up and disappear and not be there next year.
If the buildings are there, year after year, you get to remember the times you had while there in the past as you create new memories.
I'd like to hear someone's take on Sherwood. I understand that its about 1/3 the size of Scarborough but its 90% permanent structures. Since it is new, all the feedback would be new.
About Sherwood,
I was there opening day - Sherwood is going to be one of the big ones. Had an intimate feel but many permanent structures. It's had on-going work for quite some time and it shows (labor of love). Name is Sherwood Forest Faire, not RenFestival, so it's got medieval. ren, magic and all time-travelers fit in. It's being described as magical and that's how it feels. Right now they're using port-a-potties, some portable flushies. Hopefully it will grow enough to put in permanent fixtures in the not-too-distant future. I've only been to TRF, Scarby and a big one about an hour from Chicago (some 30 years ago, so I don't remember the name), as well as a few small, tent-type faires. The small ones don't seem to last long. Texas is big enough to support several large faires thoughout the year.
I'm thinking that the question of permanent or temporary faire is the wrong question for me. The question I'd like to answer is do I prefer a large, commercialized faire or a people-oriented, welcoming faire? Sometimes, the smaller ones have permanent structures as well.
After attending the 4 Winds Faire in Texas for the 2nd time last month, I realized that I'm more attracted to a faire that doesn't treat me just like a source of income. I'm not $20/$50/$200 walking in the gate. I'm a person who wants to be there & wants to interact w/ the cast, crew & other fairegoers. I felt like family at 4 Winds. Granted, I already knew some of the performers but it was also the other fairegoers & crew that I met that made me feel welcome.
I have missed that feeling since the King Arthur Faire in Stroud, OK closed its gates in 2007. This faire was the same way. It wasn't commercialized & everyone was made to feel like family.
Granted, there are acts & performers you can usually see at the big, commercialized faire that you can't see at a smaller faire. That is the advantage of the big ones. But, the smaller, engaging faire is the type of faire I most want to attend.
Quote from: Zardoz on February 26, 2010, 10:20:53 AM
My gut reaction to that question is that it should be about the people at faire, the cast, entertainment, playtrons etc.. not the 'facilities'.
Z, you beat me to that one! That's one of the reasons I love the Celtic festival- especially the Elizabeth Celtic Festival- so much. The atmosphere is more intimate. So give me a well-made, details mobile festival any day! Although I have to also say that I love the Colorado Ren Fest...
In my humble opinion it is those who attend both in garb and mundane the cast and performers and yes even the vendors which make a fair. I am fortunate in the fact that my site has flushies and a permanant structure for a pub but as we are an annual gathering and the keepers of magic permanent structures would be a drawback fo us. The type of buildings should be dictated by the storyline of the event and used to create the desired ambiance but are not what make a fair.
There was a soft faire in Little Rock a few years back, right on the river. It could have been a beautiful setting. It wasn't so much that there were no permanent structures that turned us off...there just wasn't much of anything. It was ill-conceived and provided very little entertainment at all. We spent less than an hour there and got bored and left.
I don't know that Arkansas can support a faire in much of any fashion. There's only a handful of us Arkies on this board that I've identified, a few people I know have shown any real interest at all in faires. "Let us know next time," they say, then when next time rolls around, it's "I'm washing my hair that weekend."
I'm not in AR but close (Memphis, TN). I would LOVE to have more Faire opportunities!!! ;D
Love the permanent buildings and the way NYRF is set in the woods. The cast is great, entertainment is ...entertaining, and the people are friendly. For me although I guess NYRF is considered a big faire it has a great feel to it also.
And as for being able to support a faire with not much interest on these boards, NYRF is an example that it can happen. I'll make a post, faire is opening in two weeks, who is going? and 4 people respond. But when I get there, there is always more than that inside.
Quote from: Jay Byrd on January 11, 2011, 11:47:31 AM
Love the permanent buildings and the way NYRF is set in the woods. The cast is great, entertainment is ...entertaining, and the people are friendly. For me although I guess NYRF is considered a big faire it has a great feel to it also.
And as for being able to support a faire with not much interest on these boards, NYRF is an example that it can happen. I'll make a post, faire is opening in two weeks, who is going? and 4 people respond. But when I get there, there is always more than that inside.
Just found an old brochure from NYRF where you can see the twin towers in the distance. Very whimsical.
I prefer permanent structures. The tents are fine for a start-up Faire, but it takes buildings to really pull you out of the mundane world.
Though you do expect those structures to be maintained. If you go back the third year or so, it is disappointing to see the booths or stages looking like my aunt's old chicken shed.
See I disagree and like seeing the old booths look like your aunt's old chicken shed, or as I would perceive it to look. If you went back in time half a milleniium to the renaissance era in an old English village of some kind, I do not think the structures would be all that maintained looking.
Me personally I cannot do the tent type of faire. Unless the entertainment and shows are knock you off your feet awesome best I've ever seen, I will have a hard time seeing past the fact that I am watching it on a hay bail looking at a tent. It's why I haven't been back to VARF since they moved. I think the structures, signage, and landscaping make a faire, as much as the entertainment.
I have become of the opinion that shade, mowed down weeds and lack of debris (glass, broken boards, fire ants, fallen branches) is more important tents or buildings.