Wow! Here is something that I think could make a very lively discussion. With all the comments on adornments people wear to the faire, the responses should be very interesting.
I have a friend that is a Ren Faire performer/cast member. We were discussing the faire, and of course, we got into a discussion of all the different personas who visit the faire. Like Star Treks, Storm Troopers, Steampunk. You get the picture. His response is a totally different perspective, coming from someone who works at the faire for his livelihood. Again, it is just his OPINION, but since most of us don't make working at faires our lifestyles, I thought it worth putting out in our forum.
My friend feels insulted that people come to faire not dressed in garb that fits the scenario. Oh, not H/A garb, none of us really have that, and of course, he realizes this. But his point of view is that the cast spends up to 3-4 months in rehearsals to give the patrons a someone realistic re-creation of a Medieval or Renaissance Village faire. The owners and management spend lots of money to hire the people to do this and decorate the grounds. The musicians spend time and money rehearsing (somewhat) period songs and getting together garb to look the part of a Renaissance bard. The merchants spend time and money to build booths that look like houses of the time period. Without going on and on, I think you get my drift.
Then in come the Trekkies, Steampunk, etc, and he feels like they are thumbing their noses at everyone who has worked hard to provide a fun environment with a semi-realistic portrayal of the time period. It's like they are saying, "Yeah, this is a Renaissance Festival, but I dress this way because I CAN, and there's nothing you can do about it." And he feels it takes so much away from the environment.
I told him about this forum, that we are such a diverse group, and he said, without naming names, I could post this on here.
I'd love to hear what others think, because I never really thought about it from that point of view. Again, it is his opinion, not mine, not yours, not managements, so it isn't official, but I think there is some truth in what he says.
So any posts, please let's keep it "nice" and without drama!
First and foremost, it is a place to have fun, so people who want absolute historical accuracy need to find living history events and go to those. I think it would very dull if it wasn't for the people who bring the fantasy aspects and all the non historically accurate fun to faire. I like to see anything from late antiquity Carolingian Renaissance through the middle ages ( I play Viking), THE Renaissance and on into earlier colonial/ age of sail ( need pirates!) to goblins and faires. I've never worked at a faire and real life kind of limits the faires I can attend to Scarby and TRF, so my perspective is only from what I see at those. I do however, have close friends that do/have worked at faires around the country and they for the most part have the same opinions as I do.
The argument has been made that if they are paying, they can get in wearing whatever they want. Not buying this, I can think of a couple dozen businesses that will turn people away for being "out of place". Try getting into Slimelight in England in street clothes, good luck.
My opinion, there dozens of sci-fi cons around the country every year and most people are not more than a few hours drive from one. If you want to play Trekkie, Storm Trooper, or Jules Verne, go there.
The first time I ever came across this, it was people dressed as Star Trek. I asked them about it and they said it was supposed to be like going on away mission on a low tech planet. Likewise, some steampunks I know say its supposed to be like time travelers. I'm not sure what the stormtroopers excuse would be.
As to the initial post, I would point out that the majority of patrons who come through the gate aren't dressed in period clothes either and are technically destroying the illusion too.
Quote from: serenamoonsilver on July 30, 2010, 09:24:20 PM
The first time I ever came across this, it was people dressed as Star Trek. I asked them about it and they said it was supposed to be like going on away mission on a low tech planet. Likewise, some steampunks I know say its supposed to be like time travelers. I'm not sure what the stormtroopers excuse would be.
As to the initial post, I would point out that the majority of patrons who come through the gate aren't dressed in period clothes either and are technically destroying the illusion too.
I understand what you are saying, but I think my point was a little different. It is that a cast member who (along with the rest of the cast) put a lot of time and effort trying to show the general public a recreation of a Renaissance village, who felt like those dressed from time periods not remotely associated with this one (and not just fairies or pirates, people kind of thought they were around in the Renaissance) were like a slap in the face to those people working so hard to make the recreation.
Again, it may be only he who feels this way, certainly not every cast member. It's just I had never thought of it that way, and I was wondering if anyone else had heard (or experienced this if they work at faire) this from other cast members or performers or merchants.
As I understand you, his point is: If you go to Faire, either dress in your normal (mundane) clothing, OR dress in an interpretation of the period. He feels that by going out of your way and dressing COMPLETELY out of period, a person is insulting the crew.
Is that it?
I don't have a problem with it myself. If someone wants to wear a halloween costume of Freddy Kruger, that's OK with me. If that's how they want to be seen, then let them. They're not disturbing the guests. That goes with trekkies, Star Wars, vampires, and steam punk to me. Why not? The more the merrier!
Now, if say a person dresses in some sort of scandalous costume, that is meant to be obscene and may incite a riot (KKK, Hitler, etc), then I feel that person should be escorted from the Faire for trying to be disruptive and trying to take away from others' fun.
I think your friend makes a valid point.
People in street clothes who come to experience the festival do not change the nature of the event or distract from what the participants are trying to do. People who see the festival as their personal halloween party, who show up in a C3PO outfit, or as storm troopers, trekkies, Darleks, Zorro, Batman, etc. do in fact distract and detract from the ambiance, and that is the case regardless of how good of a back story they've made up.
I see pirates and steampunk also as a problem but to a lesser extent.
Festivals over time evolve into what they allow. If any given fest if OK with evolving into a fringe fest, well, fine. But if that's not the goal then it ought to be recognized that permitting Wonder Woman to come through the gates is going to undermine the fest experience for participants and patrons alike and detract from the goal of a fun journey back to a particular place and time.
Believe me, as a performer as well, I can see his frustration. But we also have to remember the statement the faire also makes "Where Fantasy Rules" I believe it is. Personally I am honored and respect to the fullest all the hard work and dedication that everyone puts into the faire to make it what it is. But, it is a business, and getting people in the gates mundane, wearing well done Elizabethan clothing or a Fred Flintstone outfit is what it is about first. Then it is what they get once they are in.
One also has to remember that a large amount of people come just to be with friends, family or shopping, and don't really care about the rest. As sad as that is, with all the hard work as I stated before, it is a reality. Bottom line is, they shouldn't worry about it. They should just take the pride in knowing THEY and EVERYONE else that contributed the many hours, have worked hard and did a great job.
And, one other thing to remember, I have personally seen patrons in all sorts of other non-period garb or costumes sitting at these long rehearsed performances taking it all in. So it works both ways. One doesnt have to dress it to enjoy it.
Once again, my hat goes off to all those dedicated individuals for making Bristol a great place to enjoy.
I'm confused. How does people in non period detract or undermine from the experience anymore then the hordes of mundanes?
I dress as well as I can to fit the Ren theme of our faire. I am asked many times a day if I am Robin Hood. That said;
I don't feel that they are thumbing their noses at anyone, maybe this is just a place they fell they can be accepted dressing as such. Maybe they know it will get them attention and for some reason, didn't get enough as akid or in high school or whatever they want to get it here.
I agree though and I would like it more if everyone dressed in garb to fit the theme that the faiire is attempting to recreate, and that includes fairies, pirates and anything that can be mildy associated with the time period. But hey I do my thing and try to look past it though it does kind of throw me out of my ren bliss for a second when I see it. But I get my groove right back on and dance it out.
Don't let it get to you people we're here to have fun.
Jay Byrd
I never thought of it that way. I rather like steampunk but don't have the outfit to pull it off just yet, but now I'm thinking maybe faire isn't the best place for it. However, while I've never been to a con, I know that a faire and a con are very different in atmosphere and people. I've got friends who go and just by the pictures alone, it's very clear to see that they are different, right? I think I can understand why someone who loves the faire and steampunk fashion wouldn't want to just confine themselves to a con.
However, like I said now I'm thinking of it in a different light. I think everyone has their limit to what they like and don't like to see at a faire. I've never seen Trekkies before but I did see a strom trooper and I was very confused. I've also seen walking trees, goblins, fairies, dragons, centaurs, fauns, Romans, Tudors, Greeks, vikings, and many other fictional and non fictional characters spanning centuries. Perhaps do you think that rennies 30 years ago were not happy to see Romans at a Renaissance festival? Or fairies or goblins? Maybe in 30 years trekkies and steampunks will be as normal as seeing those I have mentioned. I don't know how I feel about that though.
Personally, I believe there is a gray spot, it's not black and white. Fairies are common place, whether you like them or not, but it seems there's a dislike for steampunks. What about a steampunk fairy? I'd like to see that. But, where does that fall? Like I said, there's a gray spot where a costume crosses from somewhat accepted to 'you wore that?'. I think Trekkies and star wars fall into the latter category, and I think those people who dress as that know it. I don't think they do it to be rude or disrespectful though, but I'd like to see them maybe try to dress in garb, its fun! But maybe not to them. How can I say that when I see trekkies and star wars fans I feel like I'm at a costume party when there's a fairy court running about?
I just can't stop blabbing incoherently, I'm really sorry :/ but again, there's a norm at faire and then there's something new coming. But was the norm that is today always a norm? Maybe so, I don't know, but maybe this something new will be the norm in later years. I kind of hope not though...
Interesting topic—and responses. My personal take on it is that the Trekkers, Trekkies, Star Warriors, Dr Who's, etc., are simply out of place and context. How would Henry VIII be viewed at a Star Wars convention? Sure, it could be fun, but it's not in context.
I had a young man come up to me at Scarby this year and start talking what I thought was nonsense. I was totally taken by surprise and was dumbstruck (easy to do, but that's another thread). I think we both ended up embarrassed. Turned out, he was one of the Dr. Who invaders that weekend. It might have ended up an interesting exchange, but it was so out of context, I had no clue to what was going on.
Costuming to match the faire's period would be difficult and expensive for us playtrons because we move around to different faires. So there is this +/- couple of centuries thing happening. The legends and lore of the era also play a role. I know some have a problem even with those of us that attend as fantasy characters. At least we fit the context of the ages.
There are venues for the characters of the space movies, classic TV, and comic books. Rather than be disruptive to the intent of the faire, they should use those venues for those costumes. Better yet, costume up in more appropriate attire and join us!
Quote from: Captain Cornelius Howard Duckman on July 31, 2010, 01:07:32 AM
I'm confused. How does people in non period detract or undermine from the experience anymore then the hordes of mundanes?
I shall allow the image to speak for itself...
(http://i842.photobucket.com/albums/zz350/Dregspics/CP.jpg)
Quote from: Delireus on July 31, 2010, 01:59:38 AM
Perhaps do you think that rennies 30 years ago were not happy to see Romans at a Renaissance festival? Or fairies or goblins? Maybe in 30 years trekkies and steampunks will be as normal as seeing those I have mentioned. I don't know how I feel about that though.
I can't tell you what every Rennie of 30 years ago thought, but I can tell you what my cohorts and I did...At that point in time, many of us thought the Faeries who showed up were kind of silly...And we would enjoy playing with the patrons in mundane clothing and with their cameras, etc. Very few showed up in out-of-era garb except for modern (in our day the glam rockers and what would eventually become goth) apparel. For the few who did wear, for instance Victorian/Dickensian clothing, we would just play that they were time travelers. We had very few chain mail type garb except for knights, we all kind of viewed them (not the knights, the chain mail bikinis when they started to show up) the way we did the people who came as Faeries. The Faeries have become commonplace at Faires and since these days there are so many children (30 years ago, not so much!), I think the Fae and the other fantasy characters of the era and pirates and LOTR ones are fun for the young ones and their parents, it encourages imagination and play, which is good for all ages (or scary sometimes, too, but still OK in my book).
I can see Renee's friends' point, it can seem like people who might possibly know what a Faire is about could seem to be thumbing their noses at it. Most of those who've invested in lavish whatever-their-thing-may-be know about the various cons etc that exist for that particular ouvre. But they've paid and if they want to wear a chicken suit, they can, unless the Faires become members-only, which isn't a very cost-effective way to run a business.
I would prefer to see more in period-ish garb for the illusion, myself, but I don't begrudge anyone in any attire their chance to enjoy the Faire and maybe want to come back in more period garb (especially being a merchant!).
And I've got to add, the Fops are so much fun!!!!
Quote from: Lady Renee Buchanan on July 30, 2010, 09:35:21 PM
I understand what you are saying, but I think my point was a little different. It is that a cast member who (along with the rest of the cast) put a lot of time and effort trying to show the general public a recreation of a Renaissance village, who felt like those dressed from time periods not remotely associated with this one (and not just fairies or pirates, people kind of thought they were around in the Renaissance) were like a slap in the face to those people working so hard to make the recreation.
Again, it may be only he who feels this way, certainly not every cast member. It's just I had never thought of it that way, and I was wondering if anyone else had heard (or experienced this if they work at faire) this from other cast members or performers or merchants.
My point was that I don't think most of these people are "thumbing their noses" at the hard work the cast does. I think they appreciate the illusion even more than the mundanes do perhaps. The man off the street comes in and doesn't go much beyond observing and thinking that's cool. The steampunk/trekkies come in and like the playtron wants to be part of the illusion created, however they're doing it from a place that perhaps feels more accessable to them. I would lump them in more the wildly non-HA fantasy types you see (fairies, WoW-style warriors, LotR types, etc).
That said, I do agree that some of the costumes (such as the guy in a banana suit I saw once) that are there just to get attention.
I've stayed quiet on this topic for at long as I could stand. Now it is time to add my two cents worth. ;D
When I first started going to faires in garb (4-5 years ago) I made every effort to dress in historically accurate garb to the best of my knowledge and sewing abilities. The more research I did, the more disappointed I was in the garb I saw on most faire-goers not to mention the cast members and the stuff being sold at faire. Two years ago I got involved with the SCA. Now I wear my attempts at accuracy for SCA events and wear the fun stuff to faire. I have been into Steampunk costuming for about a year- I like that it is a fun mix of accuracy and imagination. Please note that to date I have only worn Steampunk garb to a Ren Faire for Day of Wrong.
All of that said what really chaps my weed puller about this topic and those like it is that the people complaining about Steampuck, Lolita, Star Trek or whatever showing up at faire are usually the same people who dress in "Celtic", "pirate", "bellydancer", or "wench" garb. I wish these people would take a moment to realize that these outfits would be just as out of place in an Elizabethan English village as a Trekkie!
Seriously, if what other people are wearing at faire really effects your enjoyment that much, maybe you should just stay home!!!
Quote from: sealion on July 31, 2010, 11:07:43 AM
All of that said what really chaps my weed puller about this topic and those like it is that the people complaining about Steampuck, Lolita, Star Trek or whatever showing up at faire are usually the same people who dress in "Celtic", "pirate", "bellydancer", or "wench" garb. I wish these people would take a moment to realize that these outfits would be just as out of place in an Elizabethan English village as a Trekkie!
Seriously, if what other people are wearing at faire really effects your enjoyment that much, maybe you should just stay home!!!
And as I said, if you want a historically accurate Elizabethan era village, go to a living history exhibit. The fantasy aspects of "Celtic", "pirate", "bellydancer", or "wench" garb are much more in line with the overall environment than a Storm Trooper or some anime character.
Of all the sci-fi franchises y'all have so much trouble with, leave Doctor Who alone! He would be the most likely to show up! He is a time traveler, and a personal friend of Elizabeth I and all! ::)
What I find funny and ironic about these types of threads, besides the fact that we got a couple of folks on here that it seems just can't let the subject drop, is that currently two forums for kilt wearers that I am on are having the same discussion about "those renfaire people" that show up in garb at Highland games and other Celtic events.
I guess I should start polling some sci-fi forums and see what they don't like see patrons wear at conventions? I know some of the folks at the last Apollocon that stuck some goggles on what was obviously their renfaire garb and called it steampunk looked silly as hell to some of us.
The Tenth Doctor was at TN ren this year. He's also at area cons.
OT:itunes has a free download of the 1st episode of the Ninth Doctor.
I just think if you go to an event you at least try to fit in, to do otherwise is simply an act of disrespect, intended or otherwise.
There is a huge local Hmong festival in town, many go in 'danes, and many more in traditional SE Asian garb. Is it OK to show up as a Star Trek away team on a "field survey mission"? Or in ancient Chinese warrior/Samurai garb?
Celtic, Biker, Sci-fi, Religious festival, who cares...treat the event with dignity.
Sealion, I think you are not responding to the question I asked as the topic of this post, rather responding to perceived criticism of what people wear to faire.
I don't care - and most people agree here - what anybody wears to faire, so there is no need for such things as "if you don't like it, stay home."
From the first post, it says that a CAST member felt that people who came as Trekkies, Steampunk, etc. took away from the ILLUSION that the cast, merchants and entertainers worked very hard to try to project for the people who came to visit a RENAISSANCE faire.
And my question was, has anyone else heard that from a performer, or has any performer/cast member felt that way, because it is a different perspective than what I would ever think of. If I didn't make that clear in the first post (I'm not a professional writer, just someone who attempted to convey another person's opinion), I apologize.
This is NOT a thread about "should they or should they not come wearing what they're wearing," meaning all of us, because none of us really dress as they did back then - thank goodness. Rather, it is what I stated above.
Why is there so much negativity in the threads lately? Is it the summer heat? There's several threads that are just complaints. I don't think that was the intent of this thread but thats were it's headed.
Faire and this forum are meant to be enjoyed. Not nitpicked till all the fun is sucked out. Please remember Ren fest is a place to escape the annoyances of the regular world. Go to fest and have fun.
Quote from: Zardoz on July 31, 2010, 12:38:20 PM
I guess I should start polling some sci-fi forums and see what they don't like see patrons wear at conventions? I know some of the folks at the last Apollocon that stuck some goggles on what was obviously their renfaire garb and called it steampunk looked silly as hell to some of us.
That's a good Idea, to get the Trekkies and Star Wars fans take on it. See if they understand why some people might be upset and see how they would feel if rennies came to a sci-fi con in garb.
I have a few friends who have gone to Anime conventions in garb. The general 'theme' at a Con seems to be that just about anything goes so no one bats an eye.
My DH is a semi-regular performer at our home faire & he loves seeing the non-HA people. He'll even make a point to tell me about it & ask me if I saw it too (if I was there that day).
I've also worn steampunk garb to Faire a few times & the cast response (at least to me) has been very positive. I know a few cast members & none of them have said 'Yeah, we hate the Trekkies, Steampunks, etc'. There are few opportunities for me to wear my Steampunk stuff in general & if I was banned from wearing it to faire that would leave me possibly 3 opportunities to wear it per year (Book Character Day, Halloween & Anime Convention).
I also would say that (regarding steampunk) if Faires don't want Steampunks they at the very least should not have vendors selling steampunk garb & accessories. I bought one of my pieces at TRF last year & it is definitely a steampunk piece.
Finally, I think the last thiing we need are fewer places where those of us who enjoy garb-ing up & hanging out with those who do feel welcome. I personally feel very welcome at my current faire no matter what I'm wearing. If that changed I would more than likely visit much less.
Ho-Hum. Just another bashing of those people who want to expand their faire experience. It's tired, tired, tired. Not everybody and everyplace has an event where one can show off their fantasy, etc. garb. At least people make an effort. And the last I saw the faire owners have the right to people away at the gate. And demand that their employees have a dress code.
It's become crystal clear that some people just aren't happy. Even if everyone showed in faire garb, someone would kvetch about the person who had - gasp! - visible machine stitching.
Quote from: Zardoz on July 31, 2010, 12:38:20 PM
Of all the sci-fi franchises y'all have so much trouble with, leave Doctor Who alone! He would be the most likely to show up! He is a time traveler, and a personal friend of Elizabeth I and all! ::)
Personal friend? He married her! For a day at least. Then she exiled him. Naughty, naughty Doctor! :D :D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=olk5cJ-lcJU&fmt=22 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=olk5cJ-lcJU&fmt=22)
As a personal preference I would much rather have someone dress up than wear mundane clothes. I tend to find those who are more comfortable and secure to dress in any sort of garb or costume are much better company than certain danes who look down on you for it. I've actually had a dane ask me what I was "trying" to be. And I was simply dumbstruck. Why anyone would think it would be ok to approach a total stranger and make rude remarks about their attire is beyond me. So come as what you will whether it be pirate, wizard or Trekkie because Faire is what you make it.
Hmm... I reread the original post and still don't see a question in there. I stand by my opinion that if the "friend" is so offended by people dressing in inapropriate garb and finds it so disrespectful then he or she should stay home/find another line of work.
BTW- The mental picture I get if someone try to pull weeds with the part of their anatomy that "weed puller" was substituted for (sorry, I didn't realize that word was not allowed) definitely brightened my mood! :lol:
A few points:
1) If you are a paying customer, then you can do whatever the heck you like. Though it does seem like wearing something like a storm troopers outfit to a Renaissance-themed event seems just as odd as wearing a zombie costume to someone's wedding. I dont know. I mean, what legitimate reason would you have? But again, you pay the dollar, you do whatever you like. Those that at least attempt to dress ren-esque are always appreciated I can say.
2)As someone who works faire, here are my humble opinions/observations:
a) As the actor, it seems you ought to do what your guild master/director tells you to do, first and foremost.
b) That said, if you are an actor for the faire and if the faire claims to be a vision of 1588, then it seems proper that ought to attempt to dress as they did in 1588. Check out your faire's website: most say if they are of a specific year or if they are fantasy, etc.
c) Having an actor or member of the public come dressed as a florescent red fairy with 8-foot wings, for example, kinda kills the illusion the rest of us work so hard to create if that is what the faire is about.
d) There are all kinds of ways to keep it mostly or fully HA while keeping the individuality most people strive to display.
e) Most people of the public come dressed in mundanes and that is expected (it's not distracting as a steampunk person would be, for example).
f) It's about having fun, or else none of us would be here! :)
That said, I dont say anything to those that come dressed in something other that what is period for any given faire. I like this approach: http://attack-laurel.livejournal.com/167972.html personally.
Something to consider as well is that some people dress in whatever style they like every day...Whether the latest is glam or mods or rockers or steampunk or retro hippie/original hippie/dancer/blahblahblah or whatever (probably less likely some types, but you get my drift). Some of these people are just dressed as they prefer to dress and are able to live whatever lifestyle supports that and show up at faire in that attire.
I still see the original posting as just an inquiry for perspectives, not a request for people to complain. Do you find it a distraction, a minus, a plus or just roll with it?
Valiss! I LOVE reading Attack Laurel's posts! She inspired me to go "extreme" on decorating my son's doublet. Although I don't always agree with all she posts, I really enjoy reading her blog. Thank-you!
We where asked asked for an opinion and we gave them. Look at my profile picture, you think I care what people look like? No. I'm full of tattoo's and metal adornments, sheesh. (sans the deathrock hawk now)
People showing up in whatever costume they want to wear doesnt bother me, I still have fun doing my thing, hanging out with nice folks and meeting new people. I just think it would be more fun for everyone that if you where going to dress up, try to at least keep with the theme.
Now, off to work on my Space Marine armor.
Quote from: Butch on July 30, 2010, 10:22:00 PM
If someone wants to wear a halloween costume of Freddy Kruger, that's OK with me. If that's how they want to be seen, then let them. They're not disturbing the guests. That goes with trekkies, Star Wars, vampires, and steam punk to me. Why not? The more the merrier!
The problem is that some of it is disturbing and disrupting to the guests. I have taken mundanes to Faire, trying to turn them on to our little world. This was years ago at the Ontario RenFest, which unfortunately closed years ago. They saw four people in Trek uniforms (albeit very low quality ones) and thought that it was dumb, and it took away from their experience, and what were they doing there, and in a round about way the experience turned them away from Faire. Many mundanes are at Faire for the first time, and you only get one chance to make a first impression. We need the mundanes to help support our Faires through their revenues. If you think that Playtrons keep Faires afloat, think again, we are in the minority of attendees. If they leave a Faire with the outstanding thought is of a bunch of Stormtroopers or an Away Team (because everything else "fit in" at the Shire, that would stand out) then they may not return, because the Faire has just turned into another ComiCon.
Quote from: Captain Cornelius Howard Duckman on July 31, 2010, 01:07:32 AM
I'm confused. How does people in non period detract or undermine from the experience anymore then the hordes of mundanes?
This is like asking if the audience takes away from the actors' expeience at a Broadway play. The illusion is being put on, in a large part, for the mundanes. They are the audience, so some thought has to be given to their reactions. Do the people riding the rides at Disney make it feel like less of a Magical Kingdom?
Quote from: Taffy Saltwater on July 31, 2010, 06:47:14 PM
Not everybody and everyplace has an event where one can show off their fantasy, etc. garb. At least people make an effort.
Quote from: cowgrrl on July 31, 2010, 06:42:15 PM
I've also worn steampunk garb to Faire a few times ..... There are few opportunities for me to wear my Steampunk stuff in general & if I was banned from wearing it to faire that would leave me possibly 3 opportunities to wear it per year (Book Character Day, Halloween & Anime Convention).
I don't have as big a problem with Steampunk, but having few venues to wear garb nearby is not a valid reason to have Stormtroopers and the like invade a Faire. I have one Faire within a 1 hour drive of me, and that venue is only on one weekend per year. As I want to wear my garb more, I choose to drive four hours to the next nearest three Faires, 5 hours to a another and ten hours to my favourite (all times are one way, double it for total time travelling to and from).
One parallel I have used in the past is this: I'm a Leafs hockey fan from Toronto. The season is limited (especially with the talent on our team in the last few years). This doesn't make it okay for me wear my Leafs Jersey and flag to a hockey game in Buffalo where the Sabres were playing, say Boston. Just slightly out of place, right? But can you imagine me going to a Yankees game in my Leafs jersey, waving my Leafs flag and chanting hockey cheers, yelling about a penalty or an off-side? Demanding a Penalty Shot?
If it's you thing, go, enjoy, and take
appropriate part.
Quote from: Lady Renee Buchanan on July 31, 2010, 12:54:52 PM
From the first post, it says that a CAST member felt that people who came as Trekkies, Steampunk, etc. took away from the ILLUSION that the cast, merchants and entertainers worked very hard to try to project for the people who came to visit a RENAISSANCE faire.
And my question was, has anyone else heard that from a performer, or has any performer/cast member felt that way, because it is a different perspective than what I would ever think of.
Lady Renee, yes I have heard that from other shopkeepers. We do try very hard to create that illusion of a village. When I first started at MNRF (1998) we had a costume director. We had to submit ideas/drawings of what type of garb we were going to wear and have it approved. I don't know when that ended, but I haven't gotten anything, no guidelines, or rules about costuming, in years. Also, a few years ago, MNRF decided to have an ATV dealer set up and demonstrate their vehicles RIGHT BY the MAIN GATE! Talk about destroying an illusion! :o
I'm with you on that, Lady L (ATV's)! And also the broadcasting of sports games in pubs.
I also am from the days when you had to pass inspection (and that was not just cast, it was everyone).
Quote from: Butch on July 30, 2010, 10:22:00 PM
As I understand you, his point is: If you go to Faire, either dress in your normal (mundane) clothing, OR dress in an interpretation of the period. He feels that by going out of your way and dressing COMPLETELY out of period, a person is insulting the crew.
Is that it?
I myself have heard comments like this from cast members. The cast directors expect them to stay in character regardless of what their 'audience' is wearing but the trekkies and the storm troopers frwquently make that more difficult than people in mundane clothing do. Not all of them by any means, but enough of the star trek characters have come up in the middle of a lane set and pretend to run scanners over the person or persons invovled in the skit. So that irritant probably set them against sci-fi characters at faire to begin with. My personal opinion is I don't go to sci-fi cons in all my regalia and expect to be treated as the Marquesa De Rende, so why should they come to a Renaissance faire and expect all of us to treat them as if its a sci-fi con?
Look at it another way. Would you like it if someone you didn't really know came to one of your relatives' formal weddings in torn jeans and a rock band shirt and insisted on sitting on the front row?
It seems to me to be a matter of manners.
Quote from: Captain Cornelius Howard Duckman on July 31, 2010, 01:07:32 AM
I'm confused. How does people in non period detract or undermine from the experience anymore then the hordes of mundanes?
I've long said that the paying public can attend in whatever is street legal in that community,* and I admit people watching is part of the fun of fair, but I would suggest that things like Star Trek/War uniforms, furries or other attention grabbing clothing ( http://mrffriends.tripod.com/pages_groups/unusual_patrons.html ) can be things that distracts the audience from the actual show especially when they walk past or join the audience of stage acts that are in performance. They can also reinforce the public perception that there's nothing historical/educational to be found at Renfairs.
The furry that showed up to MNRF a couple years ago
http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b160/Groomporter/shows/MNRF%202007/P9150006.jpg
*Although I confess I'm tired of the woman who has been showing up at MNRF for at least 15 years wearing an 18 inch, erect codpiece. I would like to see management politely ask her not to wear it anymore.
Quote from: Lady Nicolette on July 31, 2010, 09:46:21 PM
Something to consider as well is that some people dress in whatever style they like every day...Whether the latest is glam or mods or rockers or steampunk or retro hippie/original hippie/dancer/blahblahblah or whatever (probably less likely some types, but you get my drift). Some of these people are just dressed as they prefer to dress and are able to live whatever lifestyle supports that and show up at faire in that attire.
Yeah I've pointed to people that the Goths who show up at fair are sometimes just wearing their day-to-day "going out with friends clothes" and are not in "costumes" for the going to fair.
Quote from: DonaCatalina on August 01, 2010, 09:25:01 AM
I myself have heard comments like this from cast members. The cast directors expect them to stay in character regardless of what their 'audience' is wearing but the trekkies and the storm troopers frwquently make that more difficult than people in mundane clothing do. Not all of them by any means, but enough of the star trek characters have come up in the middle of a lane set and pretend to run scanners over the person or persons invovled in the skit. So that irritant probably set them against sci-fi characters at faire to begin with. My personal opinion is I don't go to sci-fi cons in all my regalia and expect to be treated as the Marquesa De Rende, so why should they come to a Renaissance faire and expect all of us to treat them as if its a sci-fi con?
Look at it another way. Would you like it if someone you didn't really know came to one of your relatives' formal weddings in torn jeans and a rock band shirt and insisted on sitting on the front row?
It seems to me to be a matter of manners.
Manners are one thing and what you described is rude, just as it would be rude to interupt a cosplay skit at a sci-fi con. But from talking to people who do this, going dressed up to a con and going dressed up to faire are two different experiences for some of them. A sci-fi con may have areas for LARP, but when the day is done its still just a convention hall, full of tabled merchants. It's not made up to be an alien planet or spacestation. Now when you walk into a ren faire, its like entering a whole other world. It isn't as hard to imgaine yourself a time traveler or on a "low tech alien world". I really can't name another place that's open to the public where you can get that kind of experience. I think as long as they aren't acting rude then it shoudln't be a problem and I would hope the staff would take it as a compliment. After all, there a lot of other things at faire the break the illusion for me more than the trekkies, etc.
Quote from: Lady Nicolette on August 01, 2010, 07:09:36 AM
And also the broadcasting of sports games in pubs.
Yes, I really agree with you on that one. I know there are some die hard sports fans, but in my opinion, the festival shouldn't be promoting that.
Quote from: groomporter on August 01, 2010, 10:45:11 AM
*Although I confess I'm tired of the woman who has been showing up at MNRF for at least 15 years wearing an 18 inch, erect codpiece. I would like to see management politely ask her not to wear it anymore.
I agree with you! I have seen her out there every year, wearing that thing. Especially since they want to be more family friendly and we have to sign a no sexual harassment policy.
QuoteLook at it another way. Would you like it if someone you didn't really know came to one of your relatives' formal weddings in torn jeans and a rock band shirt and insisted on sitting on the front row?
It seems to me to be a matter of manners.
I honestly think there's a huge difference. The person who is dressed in non-HA garb is still making an effort to 'play'. I also don't expect cast members to interact with me if I'm not in HA garb & I'm not one who tries to interact with cast members whether I'm in HA garb or not.
Quote*Although I confess I'm tired of the woman who has been showing up at MNRF for at least 15 years wearing an 18 inch, erect codpiece. I would like to see management politely ask her not to wear it anymore.
Honestly, as a person who travels for faires, that bit of info gives me pause about whether or not I'd want to visit MNRF. Although I have to ask, are we talking codpiece or dildo?
Quote from: cowgrrl on August 02, 2010, 11:13:09 AM
Quote*Although I confess I'm tired of the woman who has been showing up at MNRF for at least 15 years wearing an 18 inch, erect codpiece. I would like to see management politely ask her not to wear it anymore.
Honestly, as a person who travels for faires, that bit of info gives me pause about whether or not I'd want to visit MNRF. Although I have to ask, are we talking codpiece or dildo?
Codpiece. It's velvet and decorated with pearls. When we first saw her wear it years ago it was about the time when Blackadder was on public television locally so we assumed it was a joke inspired by the huge one he wore in one episode. A friend who used to know her through the SCA said she actually has some sort of feminist statement she's trying to make, but whatever the statement is it gets kind of lost. She's a playtron and shows up about once a year or so.
Yep, darned tired of her too! Sorry if it's viewed as negative or not, just flat out tired of seeing it.
Okay, I have to ask. What was she wearing other than the bejeweled codpiece?
A few years back we had a fellow wearing armor made from soda cans, with the logos still clearly visible. I thought it was funny and cool and it made me smile, but alot of the comments I heard were of the rolling eyes/how dare he kind. I can see if it's something or someone who is trying to be offensive, or if it is a faire that really does strive for complete accuracy...I guess for me there is a line between going to the show and playing along, even if it is out of context and going to the show specifically to garner attention for yourself and I've seen folks wearing aceptable "ren garb" be just as disrespectful to the cast and disruptive to the show in their own ways as those dressed out of period. It's the spirit behind the person that matters to me more.
She dresses as a man in a black doublet and tights and with pumpkin pants if I recall. Even has a little fake chin beard. So the thought that she has some feminist message is also kind of lost in the sense that she's cross-dressing.
A couple years ago we also had a guy show up wearing a jerkin stitched together from "Magic the Gathering" cards.
Quote from: Lady Renee Buchanan on July 30, 2010, 08:08:58 PM
Then in come the Trekkies, Steampunk, etc, and he feels like they are thumbing their noses at everyone who has worked hard to provide a fun environment with a semi-realistic portrayal of the time period. It's like they are saying, "Yeah, this is a Renaissance Festival, but I dress this way because I CAN, and there's nothing you can do about it." And he feels it takes so much away from the environment.
I've worked faire for seven years now, and I have to say that is a rather myoptic and, dare I say, self-centered way of viewing the matter. I can pretty much guarantee that nobody is thinking "there's nothing you can do about it". They're probably not thinking about what any of the cast and characters at faire are thinking at all. The primary reason they're wearing what they are wearing is because faire is a place where a lot of people dress up "differently" and it's a safe place for them to do so. I know for a fact that this is why some of the furries and S&M fetishes dress up and come to faire, because I've talked to them. They feel they can wear what they want to wear and not be judged, and I for one feel that this feeling of universal acceptance is one of the greatest things about faire in general, and why so many people are drawn to it so strongly.
Quote from: robert of armstrong on July 31, 2010, 11:40:15 PM
The problem is that some of it is disturbing and disrupting to the guests. I have taken mundanes to Faire, trying to turn them on to our little world. This was years ago at the Ontario RenFest, which unfortunately closed years ago. They saw four people in Trek uniforms (albeit very low quality ones) and thought that it was dumb, and it took away from their experience, and what were they doing there, and in a round about way the experience turned them away from Faire. Many mundanes are at Faire for the first time, and you only get one chance to make a first impression. We need the mundanes to help support our Faires through their revenues. If you think that Playtrons keep Faires afloat, think again, we are in the minority of attendees. If they leave a Faire with the outstanding thought is of a bunch of Stormtroopers or an Away Team (because everything else "fit in" at the Shire, that would stand out) then they may not return, because the Faire has just turned into another ComiCon.
I've heard the "first impression" argument before, and I remain unconvinced. There are always stories about how somebody came during Day of Wrong, or saw somebody in a chain mail bikini, or some other thing that convinced them that faire was "stupid". What I would have told the offended people would be along the lines of my earlier point; that what makes the faire community so wonderful is not a slavish adherence to any particular time period, but a sense of acceptance of people for who they are. Those people in their low quality Star Trek uniforms are welcome because they're here to have fun, and that's what faire is all about.
Quote from: DonaCatalina on August 01, 2010, 09:25:01 AM
I myself have heard comments like this from cast members. The cast directors expect them to stay in character regardless of what their 'audience' is wearing but the trekkies and the storm troopers frwquently make that more difficult than people in mundane clothing do. Not all of them by any means, but enough of the star trek characters have come up in the middle of a lane set and pretend to run scanners over the person or persons invovled in the skit. So that irritant probably set them against sci-fi characters at faire to begin with. My personal opinion is I don't go to sci-fi cons in all my regalia and expect to be treated as the Marquesa De Rende, so why should they come to a Renaissance faire and expect all of us to treat them as if its a sci-fi con?
The problem I see here is not the clothing, but the behavior. Regardless of what they were wearing, they were stepping on your bit (which is a bit of an occupational hazard when doing bits in the lanes). Would it have made any difference if they were in street clothes, but drunk and interrupting your bit? What if they were SCAdians in authentic garb joining in in an inappropriate fashion? The worst interruption I ever got as a performer was from somebody in garb, totally "in character" with their Celtic persona. I was introducing the Scotsman's kilt song, and they started screaming about how the English accused all the Scots of being drunkards, and how horrible the English were. The interruption was as "historically accurate" as anything else going on at faire, but I would've much rather have had to deal with some Trekkies, steampunks or Whovians.
Quote from: groomporter on August 01, 2010, 10:45:11 AM
I've long said that the paying public can attend in whatever is street legal in that community,* and I admit people watching is part of the fun of fair, but I would suggest that things like Star Trek/War uniforms, furries or other attention grabbing clothing ( http://mrffriends.tripod.com/pages_groups/unusual_patrons.html ) can be things that distracts the audience from the actual show especially when they walk past or join the audience of stage acts that are in performance. They can also reinforce the public perception that there's nothing historical/educational to be found at Renfairs.
Of all the "negative" comments I've read, this is the one I can sympathize with the most. I wore a Day of Wrong outfit last year that pretty much stopped a show in the middle of a song (it was in support of a bit I was doing with the act and the act following them, and I thought I had timed it so I would be noticed between songs, but I mistimed it and they were already singing ... to the backs of the audience while they all turned around and looked at me. I came by and apologized afterward.) It's the visual equivalent of yelling to somebody halfway across faire while standing next to a stage act in the middle of a show. While it's something performers have to put up with, at the same time it's still annoying.
Quote from: will paisley on August 02, 2010, 04:30:37 PM
They feel they can wear what they want to wear and not be judged, and I for one feel that this feeling of universal acceptance is one of the greatest things about faire in general, and why so many people are drawn to it so strongly.
Well said sir! (http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c353/Knoty-Dragon/FUNNY/icn___clap.gif)
So Nazi arm bands and 18" phalluses are ok???
Both are real examples of "Faire" attire.
I guess we all have our own comfort level with others expressing their "freedoms". Apparently I am close-minded.
I guess the point here might be don't let other peoples choices drag you down. If some one does show up and act in an offensive manner, or dress in a way that *you* might be inclined to be upset by, don't let it color your day. There's so many happy things at faire, why focus on the few that upset you? Laugh it off and let it go.
Quote from: Noble Dreg on August 03, 2010, 10:43:06 AM
So Nazi arm bands and 18" phalluses are ok???
Both are real examples of "Faire" attire.
I guess we all have our own comfort level with others expressing their "freedoms". Apparently I am close-minded.
"Your freedom to swing your arm ends where my nose begins."
Other people have already mentioned clothing being "street legal". For that matter, most faires do at least an adequate job of policing clothing deemed "obscene" or inappropriate for the general public (where "public" includes children). To use your turn of phrase, apparently I'm content to let the faire management and security staff do its job.
Moreover, none of what you mention has anything to do with steampunk, Trekkie, or Star Wars outfits, which is what the original post about. The objections that most people would have to someone wearing a 18 inch phallus or a Nazi armband have nothing to do with how it "doesn't fit in" with the setting of a Renaissance Faire.
Quote from: will paisley on August 03, 2010, 11:09:26 AM
Moreover, none of what you mention has anything to do with steampunk, Trekkie, or Star Wars outfits, which is what the original post about. The objections that most people would have to someone wearing a 18 inch phallus or a Nazi armband have nothing to do with how it "doesn't fit in" with the setting of a Renaissance Faire.
We all have a right to express an opinion on a public forim without being labelled "Myopic" or "self-centered". I too leave it to Faire managemennt to decide...By expressing my opinion to them and on this forum.
You yourself brought up S&M/Furries, also not in the original post...So you can deviate whereas I cannot?
Quote from: Noble Dreg on August 03, 2010, 11:18:21 AM
Quote from: will paisley on August 03, 2010, 11:09:26 AM
Moreover, none of what you mention has anything to do with steampunk, Trekkie, or Star Wars outfits, which is what the original post about. The objections that most people would have to someone wearing a 18 inch phallus or a Nazi armband have nothing to do with how it "doesn't fit in" with the setting of a Renaissance Faire.
We all have a right to express an opinion on a public forum without being labeled "Myopic" or "self-centered". I too leave it to Faire management to decide...By expressing my opinion to them and on this forum.
The original post repeated the opinion that people were dressing in non-appropriate attire to "thumb their noses" at cast, and that they had the attitude of "there's nothing you can do about it". To think that people are dressing up for the express purpose of offending cast *is* myopic and self-centered. If the person being quoted weren't actually on cast, I probably wouldn't have drawn as much attention to the statement. However, it pains me to know that there are people working faires who have such a low opinion of their audience, solely based on their attire.
Quote from: Noble Dreg on August 03, 2010, 11:18:21 AM
You yourself brought up S&M/Furries, also not in the original post...So you can deviate whereas I cannot?
I can deviate, you can deviate. However, if you bring up the objections to one subject (obscene clothing) as an argument against another (steampunk, Star Trek), I am going to point out that they are, in fact, two different subjects.
Quote from: will paisley on August 03, 2010, 11:09:26 AM
Moreover, none of what you mention has anything to do with steampunk, Trekkie, or Star Wars outfits, which is what the original post about. The objections that most people would have to someone wearing a 18 inch phallus or a Nazi armband have nothing to do with how it "doesn't fit in" with the setting of a Renaissance Faire.
I think the Nazi arm band is something that doesn't fit in at a Renfair, but the main point is those things can be just as distracting to the audience as the other other outfits.
On a slightly different twist, there are some also participants or fair managers who would prefer that customers did not come in costume at all. Usually they are afraid the audience can't tell who is a participant and who is a patron and are afraid the cast will be blamed for some behavior committed by a playtron. If I'm not mistaken, isn't there a fair or two out there that requires cast members to wear some sort of visible badge/identifying mark?
This topic seems to be creeping towards aggressive... let's all just take a breath and enjoy our day at faire.
Quote from: groomporter on August 03, 2010, 03:14:10 PM
Quote from: will paisley on August 03, 2010, 11:09:26 AM
Moreover, none of what you mention has anything to do with steampunk, Trekkie, or Star Wars outfits, which is what the original post about. The objections that most people would have to someone wearing a 18 inch phallus or a Nazi armband have nothing to do with how it "doesn't fit in" with the setting of a Renaissance Faire.
I think the Nazi arm band is something that doesn't fit in at a Renfair, but the main point is those things can be just as distracting to the audience as the other other outfits.
On a slightly different twist, there are some also participants or fair managers who would prefer that customers did not come in costume at all. Usually they are afraid the audience can't tell who is a participant and who is a patron and are afraid the cast will be blamed for some behavior committed by a playtron. If I'm not mistaken, isn't there a fair or two out there that requires cast members to wear some sort of visible badge/identifying mark?
Scarborough Faire cast members & stage performers wear a specific pin that identifies them as 'real' & not playtron. Its about the size of the side of your fist & changes every year.
We had badges for cast for a year or two at MNRF, but I think it was more about the new artistic director needing to be able to separate a cast he did not know as well yet from boothies or playtrons.
So, the renaissance, medieval, pre industrial age, and fantasyaspects of a faire are ancillary to what is basically a catch all for people to wear any sort of costume? Why bother calling it a renaissance festival at this point and not just a big anything goes roll playing costume party?
I' not trying to sound like a d-bag, but seriously...
In the meantime, this is the good ol' USofA where we have a little thing called the First Amendment, which we use and abuse everyday on this forum. The First Amendment also covers nonverbal expression whose purpose is to communicate ideas. So unless and until such time as fairs may amend their entry rules (i.e., no steamers, Star Wars, GOA/Pirates, fairies, wizards, Star Trek, ad infinitum), I'll be out there taking full advantage of the First Amendment.
Quote from: Taffy Saltwater on August 04, 2010, 10:38:58 AM
In the meantime, this is the good ol' USofA where we have a little thing called the First Amendment...
Which ends where private property begins, which is why faires can and do have rules as to what is acceptable at their venue. Any "freedom of expression" is strictly at the whim of the owners. Just a minor point. :)
Yep, and as a general rule, the owner of private property is free to restrict expressive activities of others on the property and are under no obligations in relation to the First Amendment. So, you are correct, until the owners change entrance policy, everyone will just have to deal.
Since we are in the "good ol' USA, of which I gave a good portion of my life, blood ,sweat and tears for, we are all free to moan and groan about it. At least until a mod or owner of this fine site tells us to stop :P
I believe TRF performers also have an official badge.
On a lighter note, I would say Renee has definitly acheived her objective of a very lively discussion! ;D
On the Star Trek thing, take it from this life-long trekkie, it ain't a new idea. I'm not sure when it started, but the Starfleet uniforms at faire thing has pretty much become a pop culture punchline. It's been a joke in Sci-Fi circles for many years, it's even been a running gag on 'The Big Bang Theory'! Seems like I always see a couple of Trek costumes at TRF, some better than others, and I just think it's funny. I know it can seem like these folks are being disrespectful towards faire and garbing etc., and while it's possible that someone who owns and wears a Starfleet uniform might think we are as nutty as most of the mundane faire attendees do, I just think they are having fun in their way, in an enviroment that they hope is as accepting as we all say it is.
There were a couple of people at TRF last year in Doctor Who outfits, which I thought where fun, and a couple of folks in Stargate SG1 outfits which I found silly at first, but after my wife pointed out that half of the alien worlds on Stargate looked like a ren-faire in Canada anyway, I thought they were funny too.
I love fantasy and Sci Fi so I enjoy the surprise of the Star Trek officers or seeing DR Who or hobbits or whatever strange new creatures await around the corner of faire! It is fun!
I don't work at Renaissance festivals- the Colorado fest is actually my favorite festival to go to simply because I don't work at it, and can be a spectator who can participate as much or as little as I choose, which is a nice change of pace. I work the Celtic/Scottish/Irish festivals all over the midwest. So here's my perspective- the perspective of someone who actively works and lives in living history. So here we go...
I am in a living history group called the Renaissance Scots. We portray civilian life in the highlands of Scotland from the late 1600's to the early 1700's. From my point of view, I don't mind if people come to the festival in an outfit that is not period- or more accurately culture- appropriate. At least they made an effort. You can tell by the details that they actually researched and thought out their outfits. To beat a dead horse, they made a real effort. The ones who irritate me are the ones who come to festivals looking like freakin' Braveheart, with tablecloths wrapped tightly around their legs and swords bigger than they are strapped to their backs, and faces painted blue. Or the people who wear great kilts and don't bother pleating them. If you're going to wear a kilt, do a little research and find out how to actually wear one!! I don't care if you've wrapped your kilt badly, as long as it's actually wrapped- and tartan! (Tartan meaning not just plaid- something with a sett and stripe to pleat to!) Kilts also can be solid colors... but I digress. Weather a real official clan tartan, or a tartan material you can get at JoAnns- it makes no difference! The JoAnn's ones are actually more Renaissance appropriate, anyway. I guess to me, the thing is the actual effort put in. Doing it half assed when the rest of are making genuine effort is what annoys me.
(A fairly important point here- The Celtic/Scottish/Irish festivals are NOT meant to portray any time period like the Ren fests, and are in fact modern cultural festivals instead. So in reality, costumes are not appropriate unless you actually ARE involved with the festival- but I'm not one of the people who complains about costumed attendees. I'm in the minority who actually likes it! Oh yeah- and a kilt and t shirt do not qualify as costume.)
I like "dark age" history, I play Viking and I know it isn't period, unless you want to use the "renaissance" term to include the Carolingian period. I do my best with what my budget allows, so of course it isn't perfect. It's funny though, I was born in Ireland, my entire family lives there, and my mothers family tree goes back to the Norse founding of Wexford. I guess it's literally in my blood. :D
My cousin did living history back in Ireland and you cant even enter the park in any costumes. I explained that in another thread, though.
I like sci-fi too, but I wont be wearing space marine armor to faire and purging heretics.
Quote from: crashbot on August 05, 2010, 07:30:52 PM
I like "dark age" history, I play Viking and I know it isn't period, unless you want to use the "renaissance" term to include the Carolingian period.
Have you heard of this group?
http://www.fjellborg.org/
They're buddies of mine- they've been threatening to kidnap my son for years- it seems blacksmiths were a high commodity with Vikings!
Quote from: Nighthawk on August 05, 2010, 09:10:38 PM
Quote from: crashbot on August 05, 2010, 07:30:52 PM
I like "dark age" history, I play Viking and I know it isn't period, unless you want to use the "renaissance" term to include the Carolingian period.
Have you heard of this group?
http://www.fjellborg.org/
They're buddies of mine- they've been threatening to kidnap my son for years- it seems blacksmiths were a high commodity with Vikings!
No, but I know of some of the groups that they link to from their site. They are European groups. I'm still new to it, have always held an interest, but it wasnt until recently that I started trying to put together my kit.
Quote from: crashbot on August 06, 2010, 09:12:39 PM
No, but I know of some of the groups that they link to from their site. They are European groups. I'm still new to it, have always held an interest, but it wasnt until recently that I started trying to put together my kit.
It's awesome that you're involved in something like that. I know that the Vikings are a big worldwide group, which is one reason I'm involved with the Denver group. I'm more of a fan and a reader of their email than I am an active member, but the group that I'm in, the Renaissance Scots, is unique among Scottish living history/reenactment groups in that we're a civilian group. To my knowledge there are no others out there, so we're on our own. The Vikings have this awesome global network. Even for someone who is hundreds of years later, they're one heck of a resource! Does your group have a website? I'd love to see it, it so. My group's online home is www.renscots.org.
There are a lot of things that detract from the Renaissance mood of Faire MORE, IMO, than bad costuming by playtrons. Pop bottles and paper drink cups are probably the biggest one. It's hard to take it seriously when you see the Pepsi logo everywhere. And for me, carrying around your own dishes and mugs is just as distracting, b/c people in period didn't tote their dishes around with them in public.
I decided long ago that if somebody else's costume detracted from MY day at fair, that was MY problem.
As for the performer in the OP, I feel bad that he feels that way. I understand what he's saying, but it probably bothers him a lot more than it does any of the audience.
"La la la!!"
Costumes happen!
Deal
If His Majesty says it's OK, who am I to argue. As ugly as it is, I do like my head attached... ;D
Quote from: Nighthawk on August 06, 2010, 10:18:17 PM
Quote from: crashbot on August 06, 2010, 09:12:39 PM
No, but I know of some of the groups that they link to from their site. They are European groups. I'm still new to it, have always held an interest, but it wasn't until recently that I started trying to put together my kit.
It's awesome that you're involved in something like that. I know that the Vikings are a big worldwide group, which is one reason I'm involved with the Denver group. I'm more of a fan and a reader of their email than I am an active member, but the group that I'm in, the Renaissance Scots, is unique among Scottish living history/reenactment groups in that we're a civilian group. To my knowledge there are no others out there, so we're on our own. The Vikings have this awesome global network. Even for someone who is hundreds of years later, they're one heck of a resource! Does your group have a website? I'd love to see it, it so. My group's online home is www.renscots.org.
No site, not really a member of any said group. Just look to them for help when I need it. My "group" consists of myself and a friend. We are both crafty though, so we can make pretty much everything we need, aside from some of the smith work.
Working on a tent now, building the frame by hand. Nothing like old fashion work to make you feel good. Especially when you have an unfulfilled IT job, lol.
Quote from: crashbot on August 09, 2010, 08:36:54 PM
No site, not really a member of any said group. Just look to them for help when I need it. My "group" consists of myself and a friend. We are both crafty though, so we can make pretty much everything we need, aside from some of the smith work.
Working on a tent now, building the frame by hand. Nothing like old fashion work to make you feel good. Especially when you have an unfulfilled IT job, lol.
Man, do I know that feeling! Building a tent is my off season project. I'm borrowing a friend's baker's tent right now. My buddy and I are building a tent to set up our leather shop in at the Celtic/Scottish/Irish festivals.Post pictures of your tent if you wouldn't mind!
Quote from: groomporter on August 03, 2010, 03:14:10 PM
On a slightly different twist, there are some also participants or fair managers who would prefer that customers did not come in costume at all. Usually they are afraid the audience can't tell who is a participant and who is a patron and are afraid the cast will be blamed for some behavior committed by a playtron. If I'm not mistaken, isn't there a fair or two out there that requires cast members to wear some sort of visible badge/identifying mark?
I don't speak for Scarborough's management, but I can tell you that the participants at Scarborough wear badges to help patrons identify who is an official part of the festival. I do not believe that the main reason for this is because the management doesn't like people other than participants dressing up. It is my understanding that it is done partly so that people have a visible sign of who they can turn to if they have questions or an emergency arises, as the people wearing badges will know best how to get help. If a child is told at the beginning of the day, "If you get lost, look for someone wearing a yellow shirt with "Safety Services" on it or someone wearing one of these *indicating a badge*" then that child knows where to get help if they are separated from their family.
Also, the badge helps participants recognize each other. In a festival as large as Scarborough, you don't necessarily KNOW who everyone else is before the festival opens. You know the people that you associate with (performing company, members of your shop, people in your stage act), but it saves a lot of time when folks are wearing their badges. When I have one on, the hawkers know that I'm working too and don't waste their time on someone who honestly hasn't got time to stop right now, or the performers know that the person going past them is probably working as well and doesn't necessarily want to be hit up to participate in a bit (though if they make eye contact and show interest, they're more than welcome to play along!). If there is an emergency and I go to someone with a radio to get help, it goes more smoothly if I'm wearing a badge because they know that I work for the faire too and there is an implicit level of responsibility there.
And yes, there are times when the average patron sees someone in costume doing something inappropriate and assumes that they're part of the festival, but when they are asked if the person had a badge and they reply "no", management can then explain that the person they saw was not representing the faire and bought a ticket just like the average patron did and that security will now take care of the situation.
So, wearing badges has proven to be a positive thing in my personal experience. That's my thoughts on it anyway.
It also helps security know who is allowed back stage
Some fairs issue IDs or passes to participants but ask that they be kept concealed except when backstage or on the set after hours.
Quote from: Prof. John Bull on September 01, 2010, 07:16:17 PM
Some fairs issue IDs or passes to participants but ask that they be kept concealed except when backstage or on the set after hours.
Like MNRF where we have photo ID's for full-time participants and generic plastic passes or paper day passes for part-time participants. (Except for the year or two when performance cast had leather badges to identify them)
I know this was more asking of "known performer's views"... but..... ;D. I came to faire drawn for the personal interest of medieval and renaissance history. So although I find storm troopers as cliché as three Captain Jack Sparrows (no offense, most of you Sparrows look cool to me) at a faire, it has no ill effect on my experience. I personally feel that if someone has a ruined experience as a first timer to faire because of how some people dressed out of period, then, IMO, they may have really not been interested in the first place and simply found an excuse not to like the faire.
I come to faire because I think its fun and unique and found even more reason to go now that my family chooses to dress in somewhat period clothing (were not exactly H/A). Where else could you do that and have a setting of props, charaters, etc. that is as realistically close to 15th century as one could really get? I can respect one's let down when they see Captain Kirk and the Vulcan crew walking amongst the mundanes, but, how long has this effect been there? Inst there usually a few in the crowd who like to stand out??? - I have found some of the best witted humor spun out the mouths of performers when you see them interact w/ the likes of such "odd" costumed persons. One day at Bristol, a group had dressed up in robot type costumes walking about the faire. I don't know how it evolved, but one of the vendors were engaged in a "playful battle" with the robots and it was interesting to watch. The vendor handled the battle and dialog almost as well as you might imagine if it were really happening in the 15th century. And you have to think of the business side as Lord Clisto so suitably pointed out! These people pay to get in, and although they may not be most of the "preferred" attendants by some, they certainly do help the cause, and to me, that is contributing to ticket sales that allow the gates to reopen every year.