Im sure by now MOST people have seen Phantom of the Opera...if not get your netflix on! lol
SO. In the Il Muto scene there are several fops..all with AMAZING justaucorps on. and when they are standing you can see that they kind of sping away from the body though I see no visual signs of support. and sit in amazingly gracefule and sturdy looking pleats
As can be seen in this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ni3oLQA4ebs (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ni3oLQA4ebs) at 0:08 - 0:14
Any ideas on achieving this look?
That is a very short clip, but very full skirt on the coat and interlined with a heavy canvas. I recall somewhere a mention of tailors of the period using it to give that stiff full look. Another option might be to try a light weight buckram but that might be overkill.
I know...Im sorry for the short clip but there isnt much showing the costume and that was the best I could find. Another option a friend suggested was a thick horsehair braid along the hem and maybe halfway up...any ideas there?
Horsehair braid could help give the lower edge of it that stiffness but from the look of it, the coats are silk taffeta that has been flat lined to something heavier. Hmm I might have that movie still, I'll look around and see. :)
it looked like they used a really big cartridge pleat kind of...if you pay attention to the bottom hem it curves back and forth alot. I'm such a visual person i'm having issues explaining it in text...If I were to be tackling this I would get alot more fabric that any pattern might call for...canvas back it all...and then cartridge pleat it but have the stitches run my longer than the usual cartridge pleating...to almost a cartoonish point...
As far as I can tell... The jacket worn by the fop is more Baroque than Rococo. They pretty much followed the same cut, but the Baroque one had bigger pleats and overall details, while the Rococo one was narrowed and "refined". I agree what others have written about it being large cartridge pleats. You wouldn't get those rounded shapes by using the pleating they used in period tailoring, where the ideal was that the back folded out like an accordion (see the pattern to the left:
http://www.americanrevolution.org/clothing/frenchfashion28.jpg ).
I think a layer or two of stiff fabric would do the trick. I agree with your friend about stiffening the bottom as well, though I'm not sure with what. Can't be too stiff, if you want those nice curves.
You know, that jacket was auctioned off eBay some years ago. The Really Useful Group sold basically all of the movie costumes, and I know the fop jackets were included. You could do an online search and see if you find the owner or better pics of it?
http://www.reconstructinghistory.com/rh802-1760s-frock-coat.php?s=&c=22&d=189&q=2&p=191&w=21 (http://www.reconstructinghistory.com/rh802-1760s-frock-coat.php?s=&c=22&d=189&q=2&p=191&w=21)
http://www.jpryan.com/details/1750.html (http://www.jpryan.com/details/1750.html)
Here are patterns that could work for such a coat. I use the JP Ryan for the fuller skirted Pirate coats. Adding Horsehair braid or a sturdier twill underlining will get the result of the skirting jutting out more.
Okay I had to look at this thread for the tittle. LOL
Carry on.
*turns and walks out*
I also might suggest padded organ pleats.
How does one do padded organ pleats?
OKAY sorry all had to drudge this topic up again to get any renewed thoughts. I will be attempting to make this costume for the Pirate weekend at MNRF for my fop :D heheh
SO...we are in agreement that it needs to be lined with 1 to 2 layers of cotton duck or twill. (which would you suggest be the better option?)
and it needs to be stiffened along the hem with something like horsehair braid...
Im still not convinced on cartridge pleats...if you look closely they ALMOST appear to be a knife pleat but im not sure. and of course the small of the back needs to fit up against the small of the back and I think the cartrdige pleats would push that away from the body...so its almost like the pleating used in the ruff tutorial from the renaissancetailor.com website. which creates a flat neckband but the s curve for the outer edges (which would explain the nice s curves of the skirtting...
hmm
what do you all think?
(http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s74/silverytyger/pleats.png)
Screenshot from 10 seconds into the youtube version...
Visually the pleats remind me of ribbon candy but they top where they are actually attached is covered by the actual bodice (for lack of a better word) part of the coat
It definitely looks cartridge pleated IMO just ginormously so and hidden by the other pieces
I'm going to agree with Gyspy on the cartridge pleats. I was just doing a test fit of a cartridge-pleated skirt, and the folds at the hem look *just* like that--large, soft, and round. And my pleats are tiny--1/2". Normally you'd build the fullness into the jacket pieces themselves (like this (http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3119/3840965058_3f0ce181ab.jpg)), but it looks like the pleats are coming from underneath the jacket, not built into it, which is why I think they might be cartridge pleats--they're sewn to a separate band/whatever, and that extra fabric at the join (kind of a peplum-ish layer, where the buttons? are) is there to cover the top of the pleats.
The historical tailor's patterns I have see have HUGE side pleasts that you sunran pleat. They look like cartiage pleats. They were to be stiffened with Buckram to make them stand out so much.
If you can find it at a library I would check out "The Cut of Men's Clothes". It helped me when making the Pink Pirate's new coat.
Whats actually covering the pleats in that picture is the pocket. The side of the coat is drawn back so far that it matches the front of the coat. The following picture is from 9 seconds into the movie. Marked on it in blue are where I see visual pleat lines. These are far too big to be cartridge pleat lines (you would see the smaller pinches from the cartridge) these look like definite knife or box pleat lines. The same lines appear when pleating the ruffs from renaissance tailor (see picture below movie picture) a 1 inche stacked knife pleat of sorts would creat the GIANT figure 8's at the bottom I believe...what do you think?
(http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y208/William_Paulet/Untitled.jpg)
(http://www.renaissancetailor.com/images/ruffs10.gif)