As a member of the Rennie community, do you think that Faires need Rennies?
conversely;
As a GM, ED or AD, do you think Faires need Rennies?
What part do Rennies play in staging a successful Renn Faire?
In what way?
The playtrons?
Local Rennies?
The Road Rennies?
Because there are three very different groups that are called Rennies.
Have to say...We (forum members) are not "true Rennies". ***Ducks tomatoes***
Before this forum we (myself and other "playtrons") took "Rennie" to mean a subset of "Carnie". A person who travelled from Faire to Faire taking the less desireable work (construction, clean-up, Cabriolet, etc). Often a "Rennie" made barely enough to survive and pay for travel to the next festival. So in this view...No, Faires cannot exist without Rennies.
The forum views the term in a differing way, Rennie = Playtron. I believe Faire could exist without the Playtron, but the garb shop could not. Fact is fact, I've been to a lot of Faires and while the Playtron is important, they are well outnumbered by the "Danes".
Hey, that last tomato was an apple!
I, as a "playtron" believe that we add color that wouldn't be there...
Yes...they do.
They make the atmosphere one that urges danes to return. They also help the performers so they can make more tips. If everyone sat on their hands and made the shows dull... danes would be less likely to enjoy the shows and get up off their wallets.
We also enjoy going to faire to see other rennies which makes us return more often...ergo faires make more money.
Oh yes, we rennies/playtrons add alot to faire. Many, many mundanes come up to me to ask questions on where they can find a certain show or stage or just want to know if there is an ATM on site or where to buy a certain flavor of beer. I think the rennies are very helpful to faire in this aspect. We know the place and have the time and interest to help out new people.
Additionally, I agree that we add color and fun to the faire. We are not tied to a booth or a stage. We are free to wander and talk to anyone at anytime. We can help with audience participation where it might not happen otherwise. And the mundanes are quite amazed that we do this for the love of it, not for $.
And lastly faire management loves us. Rennies/playtrons attend the full run of faire, pay gate, show up for opening cannon, drink and eat until closing cannon. I do nothing else during the run of PRF so I can afford to go all six weekends.
Gina
Quote from: Fraser of Lovatt on September 07, 2010, 12:11:46 PM
I, as a "playtron" believe that we add color that wouldn't be there...
Yep, "Playtrons" are a vital organ to the Faire body. Free "labor" and they tend to spend considerable dollars over time. Faire would survive without them, but be poorer in coin and "soul".
Quote from: Capt Robertsgrave Thighbiter on September 07, 2010, 11:34:31 AM
What part do Rennies play in staging a successful Renn Faire?
Like everyone's said; Playtrons are a vital part of the Faire atmosphere, they're a big part of the show to the mundane patrons, without us most faires would just look like a weird shopping mall.
Yes from all perspectives.
A) Rennies who are vendors at several faires are often the only source for certain 'Ren' themed merchandise that diferentiates a fair from a shopping mall and attracts the buying public.
B) Many fairs connect afford to pay enough cast members to provide lane entertainment for their paying attendees. Rennie volunteer cast members put a lot of work into their roles and help keep the fair going.
C) Rennies who are playtrons, pay their own way in and provide additional background for the tapestry that is fair. Many of them also back up the cast and are knowleadgeable enough about fair to give directions and answer questions for mundane visitors.
Every last one of the above posts is soooo true.
I have no problems volunteering to be the fair version of the Walmart greeter for the price of admission whenever possible ;D Heck, I do it even when I pay to get in, it's just too much fun to resist.
Frequently Playtrons are the only 'street characters' you will see at the smaller faires that can't afford to pay for anyone other than stage acts to entertain the masses.
We most certainly contribute greatly to the atmosphere and color of any faire, no matter how large. For my hometown faires (there are two) I also distribute flyers, put up posters, setup/cleanup and direct traffic for the price of admission.
I certainly hope the faires need us. I should imagine that the local economies benefit from the faires, although it's rather curious that so many of the locals are somewhat oblivious to what's going on in their own town. So many of the locals (in Waxahachie) we talk to have never been to the faire, young and old alike. I think that's pretty nuts, myself.
For Nim and me, Scarby is our annual vacation destination. (yeah, ok...nerds...get a life and all that...) We'll spend 3 nights in Waxahachie with the friends we bring along. By the time the 4 of us are done, I'm guessing that we're dropping $4-5k into the local and faire economies. We're probably not the norm, but considering the number of R/Fers that I'm coming to realize are part of that faire, we have got to have a significant impact.
The last RenDezvous at Scarby was before we found this community, but from what I understand, the folks there really made the R/F community feel welcome. I really don't think that would have been the case had they thought that the Rennies were unimportant.
I think there is a definite sybiotic relationship here. As a Playtron Rennie, I absolutely need Faire. Does Faire need me? It would survive without me, but I like to think that, in conjunction with all my fellow Playtrons, that we add to the ambience of the town or village with our presence and our "good morrow to thee"s and "faire thee well"s. We sing along with the performers when appropriate, we buy, buy, buy from the vendors, we eat and drink to our hearts content.
I think that we are a vital part of the Faire, something that the organizers have come to count on, although they won't admit it, and may not realize it until the impact made one weekend the Playtrons don't show up for some reason, like the invasion of another Faire.
The emptier streets and pups, some of the laughter, some of the feeling, and some of the spirit are missing when you take the people who come out and add to the place, without asking for money in return.
We just ask for a place to that will let us be Rennies.
My opinion - Faires absolutely need Rennies, of all types. For all the reasons that have been stated above.
Rennies give each Faire its flavor and in truth, it's heart.
1) Without Rennies, garb merchants could pretty much stay home and sell on the internet. Not only garb merchants, but
folks who sell swords, boots, hair thingy's, leather work and all of the acilliary accoutraments that go into making a well
dressed Rennie. That's a huge chunk of the merchant class. With less merchants, less vendor fee's and I think Faires depend on that to pay the fixed costs. With no Rennies to show off the garb etc, how many Danes are going to spring for that $200 bodice or $300 sword?
2) Without Rennies, the Faires have to pay staff to do things like trash policing ( rat catchers, at some faires) and things of that nature.
3) Rennies do a good bit of advertising, either overtly like showing up for a parade or other event or subtly - because every Rennie I know always tells thier friends and family and co-workes about Faire. And are so enthusiastic about it! This is advertising that Faires could not possibly hope to pay for. I feel that each Rennie brings at least 5 folks to faire. 5 people that likely have never even heard of a Renn Faire before.
4) Rennies give a Faire its sense of community. I;ve seen Rennies pitch in and help merchants who are in a hurtin way, organize monetary help for folks who get hit by illness. Heck one Faire we performed at, they helped us drag all of our equipment from stage to stage. They are the heart of Faire.
5) Bands like ours owe a great deal to the Rennie community. I know our CD sales are like 5 Rennies to one Dane.
So, a big Huzzay to all of the Rennie community. The Brigands drink to you 3 times 3!
With out you, Renn Faires would be little more then a local carnival.
I am a walking, talking, screaming advertisement for PRF. My friends are quite tired of me.
Gina
I agree with what's been said, but I think too, that what is forgotten is that faires *breed* Rennies and Playtrons and so forth. We were all, Merchants included I would guess, at some point Danes, and evolved from there. We are a natural part of faire. As natural as Cast and Crew.
Quote from: Anna Iram on September 10, 2010, 09:27:22 PM
I agree with what's been said, but I think too, that what is forgotten is that faires *breed* Rennies and Playtrons and so forth. We were all, Merchants included I would guess, at some point Danes, and evolved from there. We are a natural part of faire. As natural as Cast and Crew.
I would slightly disagree. I think Rennies also breed Rennies (both literally, and just through friends). I went to my first faire, already having made myself a full garb outfit. One of my friends had commissioned garb from me, and I tagged along. And though I may not be a full-fledged "rennie" with a home faire and all that, I absolutely love faire and go every chance I have.
And to stay more on topic, no I don't believe faires can exist without Rennies. There would be so much of a faire's atmosphere missing without all of the paytrons coming in dressed up, whether they have characters of their own, or no.
I knew that would be a bit "outside of the box" for some, but don't dismiss what I said so lightly. Not off topic in the least. My point was, and using you as an example if you don't mind Rebecca, although you may have worn garb to your first event and so forth, and made garb for a client, you were still, more or less a dane. Perhaps I'm wrong and you were already more invested through other clients. I'm sorry if I'm mis representing your particiaption here. Anyway, It's not just about what you are wearing, garb or no, I went once a year every year in garb, but still was more a less a "dane". I think it's about having a sense of "home" and ownership in some way when you walk through the gate. I think faires strive hard for that illusion and those that continue on to become Playtrons or even Rennies participate year round in some way, and are a natural extension of that.
Could faires survive. No. We help keep it alive even when the gates have closed for the season. Through our purchases, even in the off season, and through communities such as RF. Some more than others I suppose but still, I think we are essential.
Quote from: Capt Robertsgrave Thighbiter on September 10, 2010, 08:39:03 AM
With out you, Renn Faires would be little more then a local carnival.
This is it in the proverbial nutshell, Captain. If I wanted to be a passive observer I would go to a movie or a theme park.
Ren faires and historical festivals; such as Celtic games, reenactment encampments and heck, even ComicCons and the occasional Rocky Horror Midnight Revue are unique in that they actively encourage people to
be part of the show, instead of just watching.
Audience participation is probably one of the most uniquely successful and enjoyable forms of entertainment, and if the 'cast' is willing to help make the show better for everyone, I say:
Huzzah!
Quote from: Capt Robertsgrave Thighbiter on September 10, 2010, 08:39:03 AM
4) Rennies give a Faire its sense of community. I;ve seen Rennies pitch in and help merchants who are in a hurtin way, organize monetary help for folks who get hit by illness. Heck one Faire we performed at, they helped us drag all of our equipment from stage to stage. They are the heart of Faire.
And there it is! I can't tell you how many times I've gone to a Highland games or Celtic festival and camped at a ground populated by Rennies, and was treated like an old friend come home. I'm deffinately a Colorado Ren Fest playtron, even though I only manage to make one or two weekends a year, so I don't know that I could call myself a Rennie (I'm too busy with all the Scottish/Irish/Celtic festivals!) but if I could go all 8 weekends, you bet I would, because the Rennies most certainly fill out the place. If it weren't for all the playtrons, the lanes would be a lot less interesting.
Quote from: Anna Iram on September 11, 2010, 05:51:37 AM
Anyway, It's not just about what you are wearing, garb or no, I went once a year every year in garb, but still was more a less a "dane". I think it's about having a sense of "home" and ownership in some way when you walk through the gate.
I definitely see and understand that. Though I guess in that case, I'm still sort of a dane. Because I've moved so much in the 1.5 yrs since I started going to faire, there's not a faire I've been to for more than one year. But I still love going, and someday, I do hope to have a home faire. (Right now I'll claim Sterling, since it's my favorite. :))
Now that I think we have proved the value of rennies at faires, let me add to what was mentioned
before; our value to local communities. L'il Mac and I do 4 faires across the U.S. each year and we
spend alot of monies on the road. After each one, I tally the cost, everything per show; fuel,
maintenance and repairs to our trucks, repairs to the booth, booth fees, electrical fees, payroll
for our help, hardware stores, arts@craft stores, groceries, washeteria and dry cleaners, eating out,
entertainment, and one faire we can't live on site, so we have a motel bill for the entire run of the show.
These are not major marketplace cities we are in, but do draw crowds from them. A good chunk of our
monies spent goes to Corporate America, which helps supply someone with a paycheck. But as the
years are going by, with more traveling, both of us have found more and more mom@pop America.
They know us, we know them, their kids know us, they know when faire time is, they come to faire
and so on, the word and experience of faire gets spread. I have not a clue, all of us combined, what
boost we supply to a city, but surely, it's more than was there before we arrived.
The Festivals wouldn't be a Festival without Rennies.
A heartfelt yes-
I have been working as stage crew for 14 of my 16 years here at AZ-
and I have seen faires without stage crew-true I am biased about this.
But I believe that Fairs need Rennies-
Crazy
As someone who has studied the business... sorry, folks. NO.
Rennie playtrons are great to have, but the bread and butter of faires is the once a year mundane. They are more numerous, spend more on beer and food (the biggest source of income to the producer) and have no attitude problems about "But you OWE us for the way we enhance your atmosphere!
Now, I'm not down on "Rennie Playtrons" as a group: a lot of friends and fans have come from that group, because you know I respect you. But some playtrons are the ones with the greatest sense of entitlement (we were here first. It's OUR playground. You're just a dane. We know the actors! etc, etc) and they tend to make their garb, not buy. they bring picnics from home. they congregate and block access to the front seats at the best shows.
Of course, most people who consider themselves rennies aren't like this...but I'd also say (looking back to the query I posted about assumptions of what pubsing OUGHT to be) that we all have assumptions that we carry unconsciously.
And the numbers of cold hard cash brought in, show that 'danes are the lifeblood of faires.
Maggie, I agree there are certainly plenty of playtrons/rennies that fall into that category, those that bring all their own drink and food and rarely make a purchase or see a show. I do though think there are many who consider themselves patrons and go out of the way to leave generous tips and purchase favorite vendors . I certainly learned from a long time rennies how to properly tip, and while Playtrons may make their own clothing, accessories, shoes and weapons purchased from faire vendors would more than make up for the difference. I'd think ,all said, playtrons would spend far more than the average once a year mundane. I suppose I could be wrong. I know you've been in this biz long enough to know.
Just speaking for myself, and I'm sure for many others, but I certainly don't feel any faire owes me anything other than a good show. In fact I feel it's my pleasure, when I can manage to attend, to support the faire financially as well as in spirit.
I think it's interesting that everyone seems to have a different definition of "rennie."
Judging by context of various different posts (not all in this thread), rennies are:
-people who "get into the spirit" of faire
-the backstage crew
-the people who come to faire dressed in costume
-people who travel from faire to faire living on the road
-people who are regular patrons at faire
-people who work at faires
So we can't really answer the question "do faires need rennies?" because we don't have a definition that everyone everywhere in the world is going to agree on.
There's a very good article floating somewhere around here. It was written, I believe, for Scarby and well describes the differences between Playtron and Rennie, etc.
Here it is:
http://www.renaissancefestival.com/forums/index.php?topic=9044.0
Apologies to the originator of the thread if this is off topic, but I think it's an interesting read.
But i've also noticed that the term "Rennie" means different things in different parts of the country... everything from a carney to a well dressed playtron.
Quote from: Queen Maggie on September 19, 2010, 05:09:20 PM
As someone who has studied the business... sorry, folks. NO.
Rennie playtrons are great to have, but the bread and butter of faires is the once a year mundane. They are more numerous, spend more on beer and food (the biggest source of income to the producer) and have no attitude problems about "But you OWE us for the way we enhance your atmosphere!
I would say it depends on the faire. There are small faires out there that do "need" regulars/playtrons/what most people here consider "rennies" to be. For a faire the size of Maryland's, however, I would agree that they are not "needed". While I do think it'd be a different faire without them, the faire would hardly go down the tubes if they were all gone. I don't even see their absence affecting the majority of garb vendors - although a much lower percentage of danes and day trippers are likely to buy a corset or cavalier hat, their numbers are so much greater that they probably still represent a majority of their business. I'm guessing that the vendors of nobles garb would probably miss the die-hard regulars, but I'm not even positive about that. Certainly they're negligable on the radars of food and drink vendors (at least as far as their bottom lines are concerned; they may be far more visible to the individual salespeople and more meaningful in terms of tips). While I've certainly "helped out" at faire, doing privy duty and giving directions, I realize my unsolicited, voluntary services, while presumably appreciated, are hardly indispensable.
Just thinking about it in terms of working in a booth that has a range of "lower end" stuff up to the "higher end" stuff that goes for several thousand dollars.
I notice it seems to be mostly the ungarbed (or mostly ungarbed) folks who buy the stuff on the lower end of the shop (say...$200 and below). For the higher end of the scale...I don't know, it seems to be mostly people in garb who see there multiple times. That said, one of the booth's frequent high-end item buyers (he's a collector) I've never seen in garb. Yet he's there most every weekend so I'm not sure I'd classify him as a "mundane".
Of course, having friends in another booth that is almost exclusively in that realm of "lower end" stuff (drinking horns and a reasonable selection of garb)...from hanging out there, it seems to be mostly the ungarbed patrons who give them most of their business (lots of men who want a cool horn to drink out of. Or younger folks who want the blowing horns, of course.)
I suspect a lot of that sort of analysis really depends on what you're selling. A jewelry booth will appeal to a broad spectrum of folks, whereas a place like, say...Noblesse Oblige is really going to appeal to two groups I can think of off my head: "Rennies" who want fancy garb and women looking for wedding dresses that aren't your run-of-the-mill David's Bridal sorts. ;)
Maybe "need" is just the wrong word. I consider myself a Rennie in that I (we) dress up and try to play the part, though we don't have the experience and training that many of you do. That's mainly due to the fact that we're too far away to come every weekend.
I can't speak for everyone, but we talk the faire up all year long, probably making nuisances of ourselves. I'd like to think that we are providing a free service to the faire. We don't ask for anything in return but a good time, and we've never been disappointed. Most of our garb and jewelry came from the faire. I'd be embarrassed to tell you how much we've spent at the LA Williams booth over the years, and at a couple of the jewelers whose names are escaping me at the moment. We go to the faire with the intent to spend too much money.
"Need" may be the wrong term—"Benefit from" may be a better way of putting it.
Ah, there's the point! Renn faire playtrons, and enthusiasts, who dress up and add atmosphere are very welcome, add to the fun and are often a very positive influence (I'm familiar with a friend like this, who makes it a point, everytime he comes to a faire to introduce himself to a first timer, answer questions and talk about why he loves it so much)
But there are others (none that I've heard from in this thread!) who insist that they deserve more than other patrons, because they are garbed. They think they can create acting bits in the streets and that they are helping, but in fact, since they are tipsy, and smoking and costumed out of period, they are damaging our show. They are making first time patrons think that we drink while working, that we don't notice kids and make coarse jokes, and because they are in any costume, they are assumed to be on cast. Sometimes they copy what they've seen on stage the week before, and give away the jokes. sometimes they just don't realize that they are interrupting a carefully rehearsed bit. And someone times they demand special favors (you should let us use the backstage privies since we do so much for you! We should have our own exclusive area because we add color. We want to kidnap the princess this weekend, it'll be fun!... )When you make things exclusive they don't add anything to the casual observer: they just feel that they've been shut out, and who wants to feel that way?
And again, "Rennie" is a term with differing definitions among differing groups and locations. It was first adopted 30 years ago by the on the road workers. Later playtrons adopted the term without realizing that the former group had already used it (why not? it's an easily understood reference, and a common short form.) Does it mean just someone who garbs? Someone who shows up every week? Someone who knows the acts? Someone who volunteers?.... Thus this discussion can go at cross purposes, without anyone actually meaning to run it off course.
Quote from: Capt Robertsgrave Thighbiter on September 10, 2010, 08:39:03 AM
3) Rennies do a good bit of advertising, either overtly like showing up for a parade or other event or subtly - because every Rennie I know always tells thier friends and family and co-workes about Faire. And are so enthusiastic about it! This is advertising that Faires could not possibly hope to pay for. I feel that each Rennie brings at least 5 folks to faire. 5 people that likely have never even heard of a Renn Faire before.
This. During faire season, all me and my friends talk about is how much fun we've had that weekend at faire; when it isn't faire season, about 90% of the time all me and my friends talk about is how much we wish we were at faire. It's very rare that a person starts hanging out with us and DOESN'T end up going to faire.
Not to mention, I don't think a lot of people would go to a renaissance festival if it was just a bunch of 'danes and some actors. The playtrons definitely give renaissance festivals a more real feeling. The actors who are getting paid to be there can't very well go sit in the tavern or walk around with a bottle of mead, eventually bringing that comforting sense of debauchery we've all come to know and love about ren fests. ;) haha
Everyone at work knows when Faire is...or they just come find me...I love Faire and I feel it would survive without me...I would miss a pleasant and enjoyable time of year to catch up with old friends and make new ones.
Quote from: Queen Maggie on September 21, 2010, 10:29:50 AM
...**snip**...But there are others (none that I've heard from in this thread!) who insist that they deserve more than other patrons, because they are garbed.....
I agree with you there. In my dane profession, I'm seeing an awful lot of this "entitlement" feeling. I don't want to say it's a generational thing. I can't really pinpoint
where it starts. We buy season passes each year regardless of how many times we expect to be able to visit the village (750 mile round-trip). That (at Scarby) provides us with a couple of perks, like close-up parking and a discount at the souvenir shop. The rest that we're entitled to, as I said, is a good time, but no other special privileges.
I really enjoy it when someone wants to get a photo. That makes me feel like I'm helping to make their experience better. I had a little girl come up to me on one occasion and ask me if it's difficult to become a wizard. I talked to her for a few minutes, and then she told me that she wanted to be a wizard when she grew up.
Do the faires
need us? Maybe not. But ask yourself, would the faire be better off without us? I would suggest that there isn't a faire in the country that would answer that in the affirmative.
I wouldn't say that faires need us as we are not cast or actual workers for the faire. However, I do think we benefit the faire & its vendors. I cannot count how many times I've been asked about my Moresca bodice & I've been happy to plug them, their products & their customer service. I also have some family members who, after we purchased some salsa & other goodies for them at Fiery Faire, will visit FF every year when they come to make their own purchases.
I'm with Queen Maggie on this one. At TRF, it's so vastly huge that the "rennies" really are not needed. As cast now, and a booth worker previously, most of our focus is thrown to the patron. We play to the patron because the playtrons entertain themselves. Playtrons have their friends and their agendas. My husband has been a long time rennie, and until this year, had almost no interaction with our faire's cast. Nor did he care to! I find that a LOT of the TRF playtrons come to play amongst themselves and have a good time. Yes, their money is spent in the pubs and getting food and sometimes garb. Sometimes they are a distraction to what we're trying to accomplish. TRF's money comes from the families that come out once or twice a year, buying souvenirs and other fun things to take home with them.
Quote from: blue66669 on September 28, 2010, 10:12:44 AM
I'm with Queen Maggie on this one. At TRF, it's so vastly huge that the "rennies" really are not needed. As cast now, and a booth worker previously, most of our focus is thrown to the patron. We play to the patron because the playtrons entertain themselves. Playtrons have their friends and their agendas. My husband has been a long time rennie, and until this year, had almost no interaction with our faire's cast. Nor did he care to! I find that a LOT of the TRF playtrons come to play amongst themselves and have a good time. Yes, their money is spent in the pubs and getting food and sometimes garb. Sometimes they are a distraction to what we're trying to accomplish. TRF's money comes from the families that come out once or twice a year, buying souvenirs and other fun things to take home with them.
:P
*Not in the face!*
I really think it depends on what kind of rennie you are. Are you stirring up drama and being generally annoying? If so, you're not needed or desired. Are you respectful of the cast and vendors, do you respond kindly to patrons? I would say you are welcome but maybe not needed. However, at other smaller fairs, I would say garbed rennies who are in that second category are needed. Why? Because at smaller fairs (I attend several) they hire very few cast members. There are acts, but they stay mostly in their stage areas. So who is left to walk the lanes and make things seem more realistic? Rennies. It's been my experience at these smaller fairs that most of the rennies who attend do fall into that second category. They go to support the smaller faire in hopes that it'll keep bringing in more and more patrons and grow.
So, in some cases, I think rennies are needed. In other cases, not so much. :/
Quote from: Fraser of Lovatt on September 28, 2010, 10:36:05 AM
Quote from: blue66669 on September 28, 2010, 10:12:44 AM
I'm with Queen Maggie on this one. At TRF, it's so vastly huge that the "rennies" really are not needed. As cast now, and a booth worker previously, most of our focus is thrown to the patron. We play to the patron because the playtrons entertain themselves. Playtrons have their friends and their agendas. My husband has been a long time rennie, and until this year, had almost no interaction with our faire's cast. Nor did he care to! I find that a LOT of the TRF playtrons come to play amongst themselves and have a good time. Yes, their money is spent in the pubs and getting food and sometimes garb. Sometimes they are a distraction to what we're trying to accomplish. TRF's money comes from the families that come out once or twice a year, buying souvenirs and other fun things to take home with them.
:P
*Not in the face!*
Imma put it all up in yer face LOLOL! I love you Fras.
Oh, and then there are wonderful playtrons who bring treats for cast and boothies. Those ones can stay. :D
And I totally agree with you Drac. It was like that at KYHRF. Very small with a light cast. Here, playtrons are very much so needed to fill in the gaps and complete the ambience.
Quote from: LadyDracolich on September 28, 2010, 10:38:25 AM
I really think it depends on what kind of rennie you are. Are you stirring up drama and being generally annoying? If so, you're not needed or desired. Are you respectful of the cast and vendors, do you respond kindly to patrons? I would say you are welcome but maybe not needed. However, at other smaller fairs, I would say garbed rennies who are in that second category are needed. Why? Because at smaller fairs (I attend several) they hire very few cast members. There are acts, but they stay mostly in their stage areas. So who is left to walk the lanes and make things seem more realistic? Rennies. It's been my experience at these smaller fairs that most of the rennies who attend do fall into that second category. They go to support the smaller faire in hopes that it'll keep bringing in more and more patrons and grow.
So, in some cases, I think rennies are needed. In other cases, not so much. :/
So true! I attend both large and small faires, and I adjust my behavior accordingly. If it does not seem that interaction on my part is needed or particularly welcomed (as sometimes happens at the larger venues with bigger casts) then I let the paid actors do their thing with no interference from me. I am happy to become a neutral part of the crowd scene and pursue my own agenda. The trick is to find your niche and stay in it.
I have been asked if I would like to be on cast a few times, but I
choose to be a Playtron because my work schedule and other activities preclude firm commitments to volunteer or to work at any fair, and I don't like to promise what I may not be able to deliver.
I like to think that, as long as we aren't in the distracting/annoying/PAY ATTENTION TO ME!! catergory, any Faire would be happy to have us. I am on my own agenda. I show up, walk the lanes, go to the pubs and sing along, buy what I am looking for, see those I cherish. And get photographed. Over and over and over. I'll admit I love it. It once took me 45 minutes to walk from the Dragons Pub to the Jousting feild at MDRF. I figure I'm at least giving the Faire attendee a little more background to look at on the tapestry that is the Faire. What I get in return is more than I deserve -
I get to be at Faire.
I also think a lot of faires think of us as free advertising. I mean who else is going to do their level best to covert all their family and friends into regular faire-goers?
This is only an observation:
Several times the purchasing of garb has been mentioned. Even someone stopping to ask where a particular items was purchased. Why do mundanes purchase garb? If there weren't "rennies" wearing "costumes" (whether they made or purchased it) would mundanes be less likely to purchase clothing? I think rennies encourage action; whether spending money, interacting with cast, returning the next year or even the next weekend. This doesn't mean the faire would close down without rennies, just that we are a valuable and important part of the faire experience making each moment that much more magical by just being there! ;)
Thank you Dinobabe,
I freely provide information to Patrons when ever they ask about our 'costumes'. I tell them that the faire experience is very much enhanced should they decide to attend in garb, and they are most welcome to browse the shoppes for gowns and garb and to wear them right then and there!
As far as purchasing garb at faire goes, I think that in some cases, it IS the Playtron who does just that, especially things like quality corsets and bodices. When I was a once or twice a season attendee, in my 'danes, I looked at various garb vendors and didn't buy anything because "I can make it for much less, no way am I going to spend that much money for that corset/bodice/whatever". Now, well, a simple chemise, sure I can make it for a whole lot less than what Moresca wants me to pay for it. Having made several chemises, skirts, and even a corset, I am here to tell you that I will gladly shell out that $$ for a Silver Squirrel patchwork skirt (27 feet around the hemline), and most certainly for a properly fitting bodice or corset. Do I think some things are overpriced? Sure they are, but knowing how much time & effort goes into even a basic skirt, if it's got anything other than a basic line & straight hem, I am willing to pay for THEM to take the time to get it even or whatever, so that I don't have to fuss with it.
Corsets & bodices are, at least for me, a HUGE undertaking, and, for example, the one I've been working on off and on since, around Christmas, I've got probably 15 hours into it, and another 10 to get it finished, including grommets. That's 25 hours. Even at minimum wage, I've got $180 just in labor, plus my materials, which are another probably $50 (using only duck and twill, since it's an undercorset only and doesn't have to look pretty, all of which I managed to get as clearance remnant pieces), so that $250 corset is starting to look more and more like a bargain to me!
I appreciate the presence of the Playtrons at festivals I visit other than the ones I frequent, simply because I already know the magic of faire, and I like to let the actual cast focus their attentions on bringing that magic to the visitors who don't.
Do I think as a Playtron I should be entitled to any sort of special privileges? Nope, simply the respect due anyone else who has paid their way into the festival. I've worked part-time, selling CDs at various events, and in all honesty, I don't want to do more than that, because I like my freedom to roam. Even when I have been selling, I have no desire to go into the "keep", as I feel like that's more for the cast & performers to have their downtime. I do not need to be in the back of shoppes, and I never have been without express permission from the shoppe owner. I do sometimes wish management would keep in mind that as we are garbed, the average, non-playtron attendee presumes us to be cast, we do add local color, and that in and of itself makes us "part of the magic". I do, also, however, belief that by virtue of the fact that we are presumed by the public to be part of the magic, we have a responsibility to conduct ourselves in a manner that will not bring disgrace or negative comments about the festival.
Quote from: Dinobabe on March 22, 2011, 10:58:35 AM
This is only an observation:
Several times the purchasing of garb has been mentioned. Even someone stopping to ask where a particular items was purchased. Why do mundanes purchase garb? If there weren't "rennies" wearing "costumes" (whether they made or purchased it) would mundanes be less likely to purchase clothing? I think rennies encourage action; whether spending money, interacting with cast, returning the next year or even the next weekend. This doesn't mean the faire would close down without rennies, just that we are a valuable and important part of the faire experience making each moment that much more magical by just being there! ;)
Agreed. I think we seem to be more 'approachable' than the cast, etc.
I've been photographed quite a bit over the years, however I've been asked about my garb and accessories (my weapons more often in that regard) more times than I could ever hope to count.
I think I scared one guy last year who seemed very interested to become more involved and dress up and so on. At one point in the conversation he came right out and said: "All right. So...all told...everything you're wearing now. Total price."
So I told him.
He was...surprised. I quickly added that it took me quite a while to amass exactly what I was wearing (despite having much more at home), and that I also could have saved money if I knew then that I should have spent more on quality thereby deleting the need to repeatedly spend money on lesser quality (like footwear for example. I'd have saved almost a thousand bucks if I'd just bought my Son of Sandlers to begin with).
But do faires 'need' us?
No.
Money-wise, we're certainly the minority.
Do patrons 'need' us?
Maybe.
Do patron benefit from us?
I'd say so.
The thing I recall the most from the first time I went to a ren fest (GARF) when I was 12 were all the people milling about in garb and speaking in period style and so on. It was so damned atmospheric to me. I could not have cared less about things like the musicians and the joust. To me it was the feeling of that...other place.
Hopefully, for others out there, we add to that.
After reading the original post for this thread I did quite a bit of thinking on the subject. The thought of whether or not my faire *needed* me in any fashion never crossed my mind.
The St. Louis Ren Faire and Pirate Fest are pretty small compared to many other faires. If you don't stop and look at things starting when you walk in the gates you can walk the entire circuit in less than an hour. That being said, there's tons of things packed into our little space and because it's located in a wooded and hilly area it lends an unbelievable amount of atmosphere.
There were times at faire when playtrons seemed to outnumber patrons and I found it astounding at how much a step out of the mundane it really was, and not just for me, but for everyone.
The larger faires I have no doubt depend heavily on the mundane dollar, as I'm sure my faire does also, but in bad weather (which there's usually at least one weekend with rain and all around crappy weather in the 4 weekend run) it's us died hard nut cases that are still out there spending money and trekking through the mud (2+ inches up muh skirt!). *chuckle* AmyJ and Bob are damn near fixtures they spend so much time there.
The NonProfit that hosts Ren Faire also does the smaller Pirate Fest (held on the same grounds) and other smaller regional, yet still historical, events throughout the year and tend to pull from a core group of peoples - playtrons.
The first year of Pirate Fest (it's only been running 5) playtrons were damn near the only people who showed up. We absorb the more risque jokes at performances because we don't get offended and are willing to play along, help performers hawk their wares, "You've got CD's?!", are willing to try darn near anything if we get to wear garb, but more importantly we look cool. *snarky giggle*
Would the faire cease to exist if playtrons just one day disappeared? Probably not. Would it cause a financial strain? I'm not sure, it could. Would there be a tremendous loss of "feel" to the faire? YES!
Quote from: Once Debauched on April 10, 2011, 08:02:31 AM
*chuckle* AmyJ and Bob are damn near fixtures they spend so much time there.
Heh, yea...we are! :) Although in our defense...this IS our only "vacation" each year. We can't afford to go anywhere else! LOL!
As for faires "needing" playtrons? I would say quite simply, yes. Almost every one of us was first brought by a friend, and we now bring friends, who in turn will bring more friends... Each and every one of who will spend at least $20 a day. Plus, we playtrons take a certain "ownership" of "our" faires and do what we can to help them grow...by money, work or donations (
stupid refridgerator worked for 5 years in my basement...dunno why it died after one week at faire!)
I guess to me the question is like asking, do professional sports NEED the fans?
Does a Bear ...... well you know the rest. I do not hide the fact that I own a soft site festival so as an owner If it were not for Rennies why would I own a fair. Myself The Cast The Vendors and Entertainers are but the humble servent of You the Rennie. All to often it is easy to get involved in the money side of the business and forget what is truely important(been there done that) and that is our guest be they the paytron or the playtron that are the reason we even exist. Rennies are the heart and soul that create a great fest and the overall ambiance even for the mundanes. Do we need Rennies? Hmmmm let me think about this........YESSSSSSS!!!!!!!!
Assuming that Rennie in this thread means a paying customer who dresses in garb and goes to faire routinely (or as often as finances allow) ... maybe the owners don't "need" us, but any shop selling garb (be it clothing, belts, boots, mugs, etc. anything that constitutes the entire look of the Rennie) -- yeah, those shops probably need us for them to stay in business.
After all, how many mundanes (i.e. non-dressing up customers) actually buy $300 corsets, good $25-$100 wooden mugs, $800 eight button boots, staves, hand-constructed art pieces, etc., unless they plan to come to faire in garb thus becoming Rennies? Even if the customer is dressed in mundanes, if he lays down $100 for a pair of men's wrap pants or a half-cape, I'm pretty sure it's a Rennie in disguise.
I've heard too many comments of horror when a vendor tells someone a corset is going to be more than $100 or that one-of-a-kind chain-mail headpiece starts at $150 and goes up depending on how many inches of length are added. And, of course, there's always "I can make it at home for pennies."
Yes, I believe the faires need us as much as we need them.
Quote from: Once Debauched on April 10, 2011, 08:02:31 AM
Each and every one of who will spend at least $20 a day.
I can't imagine any of us spending anything close to $20.00 at faire. I know in food and drink alone I spend no less than *starts counting fingers... now toes* well... more than I'd like to admit! lol
$20?? Lord, I spent that on salsa today at Lady McArthurs. Can you really go to a faire and only spend that much? ;)
Quote from: Merlin the Elder on April 10, 2011, 11:08:27 PM
$20?? Lord, I spent that on salsa today at Lady McArthurs. Can you really go to a faire and only spend that much? ;)
I can't... and I'm pretty sure AmyJ can't either! LOL
LOL...heeeeeyyyyyy, I said at LEAST $20!!! That would be walking in the gates and MAYBE buying one beverage! That just shows that if that was the ONLY money the people we bring in spent...the faire would be doing pretty well right there! Hell, I think I drink spend $20 just getting to faire! ;D ;D ;D
(note to self...after doing this years taxes...MUST find a way to make playtron faire expenses deductible....)
Self of Amyj,
If you find a credit on any IRS forms that let us deduct or take a full credit for playtron expenses, you just gotta share it with the rest of us. ;D
Yeah... the line that says "Dependents" ... but don't put "Iris & Rose" or "Don Juan & Miguel." I've already claimed them....
Quote from: Merlin the Elder on April 11, 2011, 06:22:22 PM
Yeah... the line that says "Dependents" ... but don't put "Iris & Rose" or "Don Juan & Miguel." I've already claimed them....
No fair(e)! We were going to claim Iris & Rose this year! Dadgummit! :-\ :-*
Quote from: Amyj on April 11, 2011, 08:53:40 AM
(note to self...after doing this years taxes...MUST find a way to make playtron faire expenses deductible....)
My parents said I should write off all of my 2011 faire expenses as "costume research" for my business.
Well, here is my two shiellings worth, A faire needs playtons/rennies as much as it needs the mundanes/ paytrons. How ever the rennies are the soul of the faire, and with out it's soul it is dead. The rennies bring life to the faire, they spend money, they buy things that the paytrons most of the time are not going to shell out the money for like that 600 dollar buffalo rug, or 300 dollar leather corset. And sometimes look better then the cast and be mistaken by both cast and mundanes. No, your mundane is there to have entertainment,to eat, drink ,and watch a few shows and buy some little shiny things and go home at the end of the day. The rennies will be there from the time the cannon fires in the morning, and the gates open and all the way till closing. They will camp out in all kinds of weather and even walk about in foul weather to support "THIER HOME FAIRE", Were by the mundanes will not even think about leaving the house and going to the faire. So can a faire get by with out rennies, it could, but you don't a renaissance faire, all you got is an over priced amusement park!