I'm gearing up to start what I think will be my most challenging project yet--making a renaissance corset. I've helped my mom and grandma make a court gown, and I recently made the bodice off of Simplicity's 3623, so I'm not a stranger to boning. What I need help with is deciding how to make this thing work. The pattern I've got is Simplicity 2621. I'm obviously going to leave the front the way the pattern has it, as I want the smooth, seamless look of the busk. What I want to know is...
1. If there's a way that I can make this sucker so I can lace myself into it. I'm thinking either eliminating the back laces altogether and making it side lacing, or putting laces in both places but lock-lacing the back and using the side laces to get in and out. If I went either of these routes, would it be possible to just have laces on one side, or would I need them on both? Is trying to lace myself into a corset from the side even a feasible idea, or is that going to be impossible to yank tightly?
2. I've never worn a renaissance corset before, so I'm not sure how well they stay up! If I make it strapless instead of how the pattern does it, will I be fighting to keep it up all the time?
I highly recommend the Elizabethan corset generator. http://www.elizabethancostume.net/custompat/
(http://www.elizabethancostume.net/custompat/)
I used it for the corset I just made (strapless, with boned set in tabs) and it fits perfectly and was a breeze to make. You can see some pictures of how it tuns out on pgs 87 and 88 of the in progress thread.
Keep the straps. Although you shouldn't "need" them, they are helpful! (Think pinning sleeves)
As for making it easier to lace yourself in. Rather than having the front cut on a fold, cut the back on a fold, eliminate the busk, and cut the front so it's two pieces. Do NOT make it a side lacing if you want to be able to lace yourself in. Side lacing can be a bigger pain than back lacing. I know how to back lace myself in. Side lacing just means you have to lace yourself in twice over. It's not fun in stays. In a dress, as long as you pre lace the dress, it's easier and is a lot more fun.
Front lacing is also period too. I don't think I've ever come across a side lacing period pair of bodies.
I've made that corset. The assets stay up just fine even without the straps actually contributing anything (mine are too long, which is how I know this!).
The only issue I see with switching from back to front lacing is that a properly fitting back-lacing corset does not fully close in the back. There will (and should) be a gap. But you don't want to transfer this gap to the front, or it won't fit properly (not to mention being horribly uncomfortable!).
If you use spiral lacing instead of the recommended lacing guides, you should be able to lace yourself up--just use a single lace long enough to stay laced up while you step into the corset (did that make sense? You loosen it up but the lacing stays in.), and you should be able to pull it taut yourself. However, hoisting your assets into position will be a little more difficult one-handed.
Alternatively, this pattern has side-back seams, which are period for gowns/kirtles/etc, and which are probably easier to lace yourself into (and here again a gap is OK). Again you'll want spiral lacing, and I believe you leave one side laced all the time and just pull the other one tight when you get in and out of it.
I second the no side lacing. I tried it once, and will never do it again, because it's pretty much impossible for me to get that bodice on. I think doing front and back lacing is best. It gives you more room for adjustment, but its still easy to put on.
Front lacing, as gem suggests, works slick. One can get themselves laced into a corset just fine when using a full length mirror.
My corset has back lacing and front hooks. Easy to get into, but still adjustable when needed. :) I have to make a new corset soon, and I fully intend to make it the exact same way.
Quote from: isabelladangelo on October 12, 2010, 12:13:31 AM
Keep the straps. Although you shouldn't "need" them, they are helpful! (Think pinning sleeves)
Front lacing is also period too. I don't think I've ever come across a side lacing period pair of bodies.
I wanted to forego the straps simply because the faire where I'm on court runs in July. Because it's ridiculously hot and humid almost all of our days, the ladies of the court are often improper and don't where chemises. The straps of my dresses come out far enough on my shoulders that they wouldn't cover the corset straps; therefore, no corset straps for me :)
I wanted to avoid front lacing simply because I need the busk to help keep everything smooth down my front.
Also, since I've got everyone here anyway, do you all use steel boning in your corsets? Where do you buy it? I'm getting sick of the wimpy plastic stuff Joann's sells.
For boning, I have used steel Electrician's fish tape, cut to the appropriate length. It comes in 1/4" width, isn't difficult to cut with decent wire cutters, and it's about $10 for 25 feet which will make 2 and part of a 3rd corset for me. http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?storeId=10051&langId=-1&catalogId=10053&productId=100660167 I have discovered, however, that I need closer to 1/2" boning, which, I could still do with the fish tape, just make a double channel and it's still only about $10 for the boning.
If you want spring steel, I can recommend fellow Wench Devlyn's Odd Bodkin site: http://www.oddbodkin.com/shop/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=48_60
Cable ties! The ones I buy are Malco 36" clear nylon ties, and you get a package of 25 for around $8-10. Then just cut them to size and round the corners. They're about 1/2" wide.
Make sure when you go to Home Depot to look for them (since I personally haven't found this brand at Lowes) that you specify the brand. They are usually not found in the electrical aisle (I can't remember where they are found - I had to ask about 5 different people the last time I went, and the last one found someone carrying some to go put away). Good luck! They're worth the search.
It's been a while since I've purchased any, but I'm thinking they were found in ...plumbing?
..and while you're in Home Depot stop by the paint department. A wooden paint stirrer makes a fine corset busk. Got this from someone here ages ago. It really works well! :)
Possibly in the section with dryer vents and such as well. They're sometimes called Duct ties. Make sure you get the big, sturdy ones, not the little wimpy ones. :)
The cable ties I use are black and they have like 50 ton rating ( I think its funny to see how much they can hold lol) and they are in with the electric wireing stuff I think.I havent gotten them in a while and I have convinced my brother in law to bring me a hand full from his work at the coal mine (they just toss em some times) If you cant find them ask some one for the heavy duty cable ties.
Cable ties it is! Actually, now that I think about it, I have a few ren faire friends who have said they use cable ties in their garb, too.
Quote from: Anna Iram on October 15, 2010, 10:49:42 AM
..and while you're in Home Depot stop by the paint department. A wooden paint stirrer makes a fine corset busk. Got this from someone here ages ago. It really works well! :)
That's genius! How well would that hold up to the weather, though? We usually have at least a couple of days where it pours rain and you get soaked to the skin. What do you think... varnish to keep it from mildewing? And that would also mean I couldn't toss it in the washing machine. Sad :(
I think most corset patterns call for a removable busk, if you use one. Usually, there's a busk pocket in the front, and a lacing hole in both the fabric and the top of the busk, so you tie it to stay in. That way, it can be removed when you want to wash it.
Yep, that's how mine is put in. There's probably much prettier busks out there, but with a little sanding of the corners this will do fine. I've never been soaked to the skin when I've worn my busk, and truth is I rarely wear it now as I prefer to be a bit more comfortable, but you could try a varnish. Worse comes to worse just make another trip to Home Depot! :D I also used the cable ties in that corset and it works great and no worries about the steel rusting. Something to consider maybe if rain is a usual part of your day.
The corset style bodice I'm wearing in my avatar is steel boned. I didn't make this one, but it's along the lines of a Moresca. You can see it's also front opening. It keeps me just as smooth in front as the busk does I think. I really wonder if under a gown you'd really be able to tell the difference.
Thanks for the suggestions, everyone! I'm going to give cable ties a try, and I'll be buying the fabric tomorrow. I haven't decided yet if I'm doing front or back lacing, but I guess that can wait a day or two.
Quote from: Anna Iram on October 16, 2010, 11:39:58 AM
The corset style bodice I'm wearing in my avatar is steel boned. I didn't make this one, but it's along the lines of a Moresca. You can see it's also front opening. It keeps me just as smooth in front as the busk does I think. I really wonder if under a gown you'd really be able to tell the difference.
I've been having trouble with the lower V of the bodice of my gown kind of bending up from the rest of my the bodice. I thought that it was because my corset wasn't holding me in properly, but I figured out today that it's because my underskirt poofs out underneath it and the boning in the gown is too wimpy to hold its shape against it. So I'm not as worried now about the busk as I was before :)
Okay, a couple new problems!
1. I bought cable ties today. I totally forgot to look for a specific brand! I bought half inch Gardner Bender ones. They seem pretty bendable to me. Are they all going to be pretty bendable, or do I need to take them back and look for different ones? Has anyone ever tried the steel ones?
2. Here's my new lacing idea. What if I put laces in both the front and the back? I'll lace the front all the way closed and then have somebody lock lace the back for me. Then I'll just be able to get in and out by lacing the front closed and having it fit right. Will that work?
Getting the right cable ties is *very* important. Unfortunately, it's pretty much impossible to tell just from the package if what you're getting is going to be supportive enough.
First, make sure you have the right width (see here (http://pic50.picturetrail.com/VOL417/1033223/4707019/282367920.jpg). You'll need the ones on the left.)
Second, check out this older thread about cable tie tensile strength (http://www.renaissancefestival.com/forums/index.php?topic=7475.0).
Of course, "support" is relative. If you're slim and not terribly busty (and the corset doesn't have much work to do), you might do absolutely fine with the ties you have.
Hack saw blades, and grind off the teeth
I use the Gardner Bender ones, mine are black are yours? But I use them in a bodice vs a corset.
gem, the ones that I bought say 175 pounds! I'm small in the waist and rib cage but I'm pretty busty, so I'm going to need more support. I guess it has just occurred to me to ask why we use cable ties in the first place--cable ties are made to be bendable to go around cables, so why are we trying to use them as stiffeners to hold garments straight up and down? ???
Adriana, mine are white. I think I'd like them just fine if I was using them in a bodice; I just need lots of support for the ladies in a corset :D
175 lb tensile strength will be just fine. That's what's in mine, and like you I'm small but busty.
Remember, a little flexibility in a corset is not necessarily a bad thing, particularly when you're shaped like we are. If it were absolutely rigid, you wouldn't be able to adjust anything, or have it shape to fit you perfectly when you lace it up. You also want to be able to move around comfortably, and it's nice when the corset can kind of conform to your body (but not so much it doesn't support you).
I'm probably just being too picky. Sorry, it's my first corset; I'm nervous!!! Do the cable ties eventually conform to your shape and hold it after you take it off? The corset I used all this season was a lingerie corset from Frederick's (I know, mistake number 1) and the plastic boning eventually bent to my shape. After that, if I didn't get it in exactly the right spot, the boning dug into the back of my hips all day long. Is this a possibility with the cable ties, too, or are they sturdier than that?
Also, what is the purpose of the tabs at the waist? I get that if it was an outer garment they'd be pretty, but what's the point of having them on an undergarment?
The tabs at the waist support the skirts, and also help the corset from digging into your waist.
Each individual bone doesn't necessarily have to have the rigidity you would think; corsets were also "boned" with reed, which is fairly flexible. A corset's support is a combination of the strength of the fabric; the boning material, which both holds the fabric straight and also that provides support; and the lacing of the whole thing around the body, which also adds support. I think for most of us who are intent on making our own corsets and bodices, finding the best combination is a matter of trial and error. Don't be afraid to try different things, different amounts of bonings, different types of bonings. I made my first few corsets with just duck canvas and zip ties, and experimented with amounts of boning, lacing position, and so on. And now that I've done that, I'm getting ready to make a new one using reed, just to see. It's part of the fun. : )
I've heard differing accounts about the tabs. The tabs on this pattern we're talking about (Simplicity 2621) are applied and unboned, as opposed to being integral and boned (see Lady Rebecca's corset for the latter), and I've heard people say that they don't support/protect the hips as well as boned tabs; but others disagree. One of the very few extant corsets from this period has applied tabs, however (a recreation is shown in the book The Tudor Tailor), so like everything else in this craft, YMMV! :D
I think the boned tabs make the corset much more comfortable. That way, the corset rides gently over your hips, and you will never have the problem of the corset digging into your skin. I highly recommend them.
Kathleen, here's a picture of the very slight curve given by my pink corset:
(http://elizabethcbunce.files.wordpress.com/2010/05/with-greyhound1.jpg?w=366&h=514)
It shapes itself to *fit* me, but springs right back to flat immediately after unlacing. Also, the front "point" (which is pretty rounded, actually) comes down fairly low in front, and is so heavily boned, that it lies very flat against the belly and the point definitely doesn't flip up.
UPDATE: So I've cut and sewn and I'm just finishing up boning the channels. This takes me almost to when I need to start grommets, and I need opinions. I looked at the corset generator that Lady Rebecca recommended (thank you!), and what I've got so far is pretty similar to this one http://www.elizabethancostume.net/corsets/corset1.html (http://www.elizabethancostume.net/corsets/corset1.html). I planned on doing a front and back lacing corset with the normal criss-cross pattern, but then I saw this one she made: http://www.elizabethancostume.net/effigy.htm (http://www.elizabethancostume.net/effigy.htm). What do we think about spiral lacing? If I do it spiral in the front, do I have to do it spiral in the back, too? And if I do end up doing spiral, is there a trick to spacing my lacing holes properly?
Quote from: Lady Rosalind on October 12, 2010, 08:35:14 AM
My corset has back lacing and front hooks. Easy to get into, but still adjustable when needed. :) I have to make a new corset soon, and I fully intend to make it the exact same way.
What pattern do you use? I have been planning a front hooking corset for a while, ever since seeing one of the ladies at faire doing a demo of Elizabethan dressing while wearing one.
You adjust the laces in back once. then just unhook the front to get into and out of the corset unaided. I have wondered how to adapt that wonderful front hooking closure to accommodate the Elizabethan profile....
As for side lacing: My Moresca is back and side laced. I have had no trouble at all getting it laced. I just leave one side and the back laced and tied and then lace just the one side after getting into it.
Quote from: Kathleen MacLeod on June 07, 2011, 01:37:06 PMWhat do we think about spiral lacing? If I do it spiral in the front, do I have to do it spiral in the back, too? And if I do end up doing spiral, is there a trick to spacing my lacing holes properly?
Kathleen, check out Jen Thompson's Zen of Spiral Lacing (http://www.festiveattyre.com/research/lacing/lacing.html).
Yes and yes!
http://www.festiveattyre.com/research/lacing/lacing.html ;D ;D