Hi,
I had question of how much is too much for a girl to wear to the Ren Faire in hot weather. Our daughter has two Elizabethan gowns one in cotton velvet and another in poly taffeta. Both gowns have underskirts (that the gown goes over) made of brocade and muslin, the bum rolls were sewn on the inside of the skirt so, that she could walk and run around without worrying about the bum roll falling off.
The sleeves of the gowns are detachable so, she can stay cool without a tight Elizabethan sleeve. There is no corset needed to be worn because there is four rows of boning in the front and grommet lace up back. After putting the gowns on her it doesn't seem the bum roll is supporting the the skirts which has Cartridge pleating. I thought of taking the bum roll off and adding ribbons to it and have tied to her waist then put the underskirt on. Or go with a hoop skirt which would lift the whole gown up and give it the support the bum roll can't. I also, took in the skirt but, bum roll still droops. :(
I just don't want to overheat our daughter with layer upon layer so, I thought the hoop skirt would be much cooler. She doesn't mind wearing everything it's just that I haven't done the outside test in 80 plus degrees. And with the hoop skirt going potty would be a lot easier I would think than bunching up her under skirt and holding it up for her. We bring a port-a-potty for her so, it's not a really big deal about the potty. (Sorry for too much info there).
And I expect her to run around and play with other children because she is a three year old, thus the gowns are meant to be worn and enjoyed by her.
Thanks for any feedback.
I'm not the best to be giving on advice since I don't have any children of my own. However I have seen several little girls in a similar age range in hoops. But when I pass them about an hour later, the mom is carrying the hoops and the little girl is rolling around enjoying being free. How heavy are the skirts? Could you make a tulle petticoat for her? I know it isn't very period but it might be that happy medium between a bum roll and hoops. Or if you made hoops could you try using horsehair braid stuff instead of hoop steel...it might give the shape you want while being easily collapsible for her to easily sit and play around and such, but probably only if the skirts are lighter weight.
I was going to suggest something similar to Ariel--I'd probably put a row of hoop "steel" (whatever you were going to use) in the hem of the gown itself, instead of fussing with multiple layers.
It sounds like you already have these ensembles pretty well put together, but for the future (or other people reading the thread)... If you're determined to have an elaborate, multi-layered period/HA court look, I'd probably look into doing a set of Tudor-style layers: chemise, lightweight (linen or cotton) kirtle (no boning, no hoops, something she can get dirty in), and an overgown of "fancy" fabric.
But for simplicity's sake, I'd probably make the chemise sleeves integral to the kirtle, so the base layer is one easy, non-shifty piece. And unless your little girl is on cast or REALLY loves to play dress-up, I'd probably leave it at that! Fancy up the kirtle with guards/trim/beading/etc if you want a more noble look. But she's your lass, and you know her best!
For my girls I did stiffened hems and I added more stuffing to the bum rolls. When the rolls are too droopy they can't support the weight of the cartridge pleats.
Their layers are: lightweight chemise, bum roll, underskirt, overskirt, bodice with poof sleeves. (Per request of my oldest.)
We haven't had the chance for them to be worn on extra hot days, though- then we go as fairies.
Lady Fae you gave a great idea to stuff up the bum rolls with extra stuffing. I will try that tomorrow and see what happens.
The gown that is the heaviest in weight is the velvet cotton gown, where the bum roll just droops. The poly-taffeta gown is very lightweight and I think by just adding additional stuffing will do the trick with that gown.
As my last option I can resort to what Ariel has recommended is making a tulle petticoat or a stiffer hem with a horse hair binding. I don't think my lord will be too happy walking around the faire carrying our daughter's hoop skirt to and from the car.
For now I am close to a H/A look with the velvet cotton gown, I need a year or two to recover from all the hand beading (my station has been lowered to hand beading serf at the moment) I am doing with pearls on that gown. And maybe attempt what Gem recommends which is going with the Tudor-style layers, then our daughter will be five or six.
I'd get rid of the poly taffeta. Poly is essentially plastic. Think of wearing a plastic bag in summer because that's what poly is. It doesn't breathe at all. Instead, go with linen or a tropical weight wool.
A chemise and a kirtle should be fine for the warm months. The sleeves can either buttoned on -which would give the kirtle it's bling- or tied on. You can add an "embroidered" apron for the front. You can also add embroidery to the chemise (the decorative stitches on most sewing machines can give a decent blackwork look to a tissue linen chemise) to give a more noble look.
A helpful link:
http://home.uchicago.edu/~atterlep/costuming/breughelbabies.htm
Unfortunately I can not get rid of the poly-taffeta gown, whether she wears the gown or not is a different situation. Would I have her wear this gown in 80 to 90 degree heat plus a heat index, no that would not be advisable or realistic.
Secondly, this comes down to me not asking the seamstress what type of fabric she was using for the outer gown, I saw the sample of the tapestry for the bodice and under skirt and saw a sample of the poly-taffeta but, did not ask if it was POLY-taffeta because I would have not gone with that fabric. For the cotton velvet gown I supplied the fabric, so it is a lesson to be learned - I will supply all fabric and trims before doing another gown with a seamstress again. I was very upset that the gown was made in poly-taffeta but, at this point I have saved money and have already spent on these gowns. The gowns were made with the intention of growing with our daughter, so I have no choice but to make it work out. I can either make into a party dress or let her wear it on cooler days. The worst part of this is the poly-taffeta gown is her favorite and that all she wants to wear. The cotton velvet she likes too but, not as much as the poly-taffeta gown.
As for a kirtle gown that maybe down the road but, with money already spent and lessons learned, I have do what I can to make this work out.
I'd sell the poly taffeta gown or, since it is her favorite, find a way to make the gowns yourself in order to save money. Ebay is awesome for fabrics (I just made a norse outfit for $15 using quality linen) as well as fabric.com and etsy. Making a chemise is super simple, even for toddlers (I've made them many times before for little kids. Rather than ribbons, use elastic at the cuffs and neckline). A kirtle should be laced on both sides for kids so it can be let out, make the skirt extra long just so you can add growth pleats.
Unfortunately, although the gowns you have right now would work in the below 80 F temps of fall, I would not advise having a child in them in the summer. I have seen kids overheat at fair before and it breaks my heart each time. Children don't understand what their bodies are telling them all the time and tend to way over do things when they are having fun -like wearing a pretty dress on a very hot day.