We were working on our booth yesterday, and it seemed like everyone we met warned us that my daughters needed to be prepared for unwanted male attention. A neighbor even suggested painting "jail bait" across their foreheads.
Are there some polite come backs I can have them memorize when someone gets too friendly with them?
Hopefully it won't even be an issue, but I'd really hate to get trouble because my sweet little home schooled teenager beat the $&@??! out of a drunk patron.
It would be much better to talk about it now and prepare them with a couple of options rather than leaving them to their own devices.
Thanks!
I don't see any problem at all with hanging a small(ish) sign on them saying...
UNDERAGE!!!
Dungeon Bait!!!
.. or something similar, in a very noticeable area. That, along with some humorous comebacks like "the Royal Guard will be here shortly to escort you to your cell", while pointing to the sign hanging round her neck, or attached to her belt, should be enough of a deterrent... one would hope!
That is a great idea.
I like the sign idea
the only thing I worry about is that I've seen drunk men take the jail bait signs as an invitation to be belligerent.
I would maybe have a quick conversation with the head of security about what his experiences are with their patrons and.
Personally I would have no problem with my daughter (if I had one) *&#@* slapping the crap out of someone who decided to get fresh with them by trying to touch.
I would definitely talk to your daughters about maybe having them try to laugh it off and ignore the person,
I like Rani's line
Quote"the Royal Guard will be here shortly to escort you to your cell",
but I would also give them the self preservation permission to do physically defend themselves if someone touches them.
but thats just me.
Oh, I would most DEFINITELY give them the go-ahead to defend themselves, no matter what!!! If someone lays a hand on them, then all attempts at politely defusing the situation go right out the window!!!
I absolutely agree.
I saw the "dungeon bait" pin too and also worried it wasn't clear enough and might be seen as an invitation. I did grab the vendors card and will probably order a plain and simple "Under 18" pin for my daughter to wear. She's usually escorted by someone on the grounds and wouldn't have to handle anything on her own.
If they are working in your booth and you want to be funny you could come up with something about them protesting a violation of the child labor laws.
That is if they would go for it.
I watch the male patrons and if they have that look I try to scoot them on their way. I am a tad mother henish with my girls so I try to divert that kind of thing. Being next to a pub that is rahter hard some times because pretty Garland Girls are like honey to a drunk bee it seems.
But sometimes my girls do flirt and some times they flirt into hot water, I am tempted to make a beauty pagent style sash that says Dungeon Bait and make them wear it when the younger ones flirt too much.
Lord knows that I have gotten into hot water to the point some guy tried to grab my bodice, I had a spray bottle on my belt and I sprayed him in the face to get my point across.
My advise is to watch the crowd. If some cant get the point I always say " My lord I never have and never will run THAT sort of house." Because management tends to frown on a merchant punching a patron.
The sign is great and it works! Milord Clisto has a picture of a certain pickle sellers comely daughter with a roughly made leather sign tied around her waist so it rests on her butt, that way patrons checking her out as she walks by read: "Hands off-she's only 13"
Picture here:
http://www.sirclisto.com/desmoines/we3.html
Quote from: Auryn on October 04, 2011, 09:11:40 AM
I like the sign idea
the only thing I worry about is that I've seen drunk men take the jail bait signs as an invitation to be belligerent.
I had a conversation with a girl working in a vendor's booth at PARF about her "Dungeon Bait" pin and asked if it worked. She said it worked part of the time, and that it worked as an advertisement the rest of the time to men who are attracted to that sort of thing. Regardless of what any pin says, I'd think the best protection would be a visible adult presence nearby at all times.
Strangely it works having a man around for that matter. I have had at least one guy working for me for the past oh 3 years and the amount of creepers was tolerable, then this year none of my guys came back and we had quite a few pet drunks and the really creepy slobbery kind of guys. Despite my attempts to scoot them along they kept coming back, then if one of my guy friends stopped by for a chat they were on their way. Its rather funny really.
Back to the topic at hand if there is a problem get a brute squad so to speak and have a man hang out be it to be a runner or a helper the creepiness may leave your girls alone.
You are on Mockingbird Lane, right? Make friends with your close-by neighbors. There are some intimidatingly large guys around there. & some equally intimidating mama bears too.
Does your Faire have a safe word? At PARF if one yells out CONSTABLE !! help comes a running. Perhaps a sign that says Touch me and I'll yell (Safe word)! Of course this will only work if the drunken louts know about the safe word and how it works.
Sign that says:
UNDERAGE!!!
Go Directly to JAIL!!!
Since, I can't always acompany her, my daughter wears the dungeon bait pin, and also a whistle around her neck she jokingly calls her rape whistle. She is fun sized- 5'3" and 115 pounds dripping wet.
But she is also a dancer and WILL kick the living crap out of you if you try to touch her. In the meantime, any one of her fifty fest "uncles" will come to her aid. and finish the job.
Confidence is half the key. Make sure your girls are confident and self assured enough to know they can defend themselves. If some jerk is too touchy- feely, she can make it known by drawing attention to the situation. Humiliate the jerk at the very least, get him kicked out at the worst. Any decent guy, or mother hen will assist.
The whistle is a great idea! Loud, gets attention, annoying. Perfect! I might start wearing one... ::)
I can't speak for everywhere, but I know that here in Florida, the very instant it goes from unwanted attention to unwanted touching, it is assault. I would expect that the laws are very similar across the USA. Pushing oneself on a woman is deplorable; touching a woman without her permission is intolerable. I would hope that there would be enough gentlemen around -- all it takes is one -- to make it unnecessary for the woman to defend herself. Sadly, I realize that is often not the case.
You're so right, Iain. However, you'd be surprised at how many people look at the display of cleavage as a sign they are entitled to touch, perhaps even a right to touch. If a man touches a woman inappropriately, I really see no need to be polite. A hard slap across the face is in order.
Ironically, women are often brought up to be polite and non-physical regardless of the situation. Never yell, don't hit, etc... It is a shame that we don't teach self defense for girls in high school. I was sexually harassed in college and didn't know how to deal with it. To this day I wish I had canned him a good one. Now I would. I am currently taking kickboxing and plan on taking a few Krav Maga classes. Some men think they have the right to be pimps just because they are men (no one on here, of course!).
I'm normally a very peaceful wizard, but I'd love to see an obnoxious boor get his comeuppance by a well-trained lady!
Hear, hear!
Not exactly clever, but I've found that taking a step back and saying "no" or "back off" or something similar, depending on the exact situation, in a firm, confident (but very serious) manner usually gets them to stop. If that doesn't work, I leave. If he touched me, he would get hit. Thankfully, I've never had to do the last one.
Important tip, for hitting people, especially if you're not trained in a martial art: don't punch someone in the face! That's a good way to break your hand. If you want to hit the face, and a slap won't be sufficient, use the heel of your hand. Elbows and knees are also very good for getting people to back off. They're hard, and much less fragile than hands.
I am afraid that Merlin is correct. Last year was my first year and I had a fabulous time but there was one instance out at the camp grounds where I had someone seriously grope me. I mean like hand all the way in my corset. Lucky for him I was drinking and didn't knock him one fast enough before he ran. Unlucky for him he is one of my students so I reported it when I came back home, just in case.
I love to dress up and as you can see by my pic "stuff" is on display. I just ask that you look but don't touch, unless invited to. I don't see why some would have a problem with that.
I do have to say though that several guys around the campfire last year came to my "rescue" and offered to beat on him a little. :P
Please remember that the original question related to undue attention to Working Minors. What steps an adult can take may not be appropriate for them.
A blast of pepper spray from someone 15 burns just as bad if it came from someone 30... :o ;D
*A bit radical but sometimes it takes that to get through to people*
Since the original poster is vending soap and etc. which of course involves a lot of touching and handling of merchandise, perhaps a sign like such:
Touch the merchanDISE, We love you.
Touch the MerchANTS, go to Jail.
Naturally we want to do all in our power to avoid conflicts such as these. However in the past as per my customer service experience, I find nearly all the time that either people do not read signs and if they do, they ignore them. Particularly if alcohol is involved. Like the many good suggestions already submitted I would suggest a combination of signs, a pin or button and become fast friends with surrounding merchants and cast. By all means use a safeword, even if it is "EHWWW MUTHAHHHH!" And instruct them on the advantages on NOT letting customers get within grab reach (at least a one foot buffer zone ) and how to deftly step away when it appears they are about to reach. Personally, I would NEVER have them reveal their age ("Not old enough for you, Milord " will USUALLY suffice ) or relationship status, nor anything personal for that matter. Talk to them about the many ways some will try to get that info as well..."So, how is school coming along....Does your boyfriend like you having this job.... What's the weather like around here between faires...etc etc etc..."
And let us not discount the testosterone laden teen crowd either...while not known to be nearly as up front and physical, they may perhaps become an annoyance as well for I am sure they will all fall instantly in love and begin the phase of moon and puppy eyes... ;)
But for those, tis simple...put on the Mommy hat and carry a big club. ;D
I kind of like this pin myself. Straight to the point.
http://www.cafepress.com/+do_i_look_18_225_button,204320694 (http://www.cafepress.com/+do_i_look_18_225_button,204320694)
I think as adults attending the fair we should have the fortitude to assist in backing some of these scoundrels off. i would like to think that if I saw someone inappropriately addressing or touching a woman of any age that my sword might be drawn, regardless of how well peace-tied. ;D
Keep them within sight and well be a momma badger, if someone messes with your babies you get cranky. If the creep in question gets too persistant get a police officer ( We always have a handfull of Sheriff Deputies and State Patrol officers at CoRF) and have the person spoken to about his manners.
Fuzzlet is only a month old but we plan to raise her to protect herself if need be however having faire 'uncles' around helps. I worked a small food service kiosk when I was in high school. I had alot of drunks come to my kiosk for late night munchies, and then stupid high school boys who thought they were god's gift to women. My manager told me if anyone tried anything to yell out a code word. Any staff that was near by that heard it came over to help. I only had to use it once, but when I did I had 2 momma bears, and an intimidating grizzly of a male manager show up.
I like the idea of the signs in the shop, and the jail bait pin ideas. Add in the safe word that will call for help sounds like good ideas to me.
There will always be idiots out there no matter what you do, but putting things in place to prevent them will stop the worst of it.
Lord Dragon,
LOVE that button!
All of your advice is spot on. It is far better to not get in a position that would need action in the first place. Ounce of Prevention and all that. However, we are talking about underage girls here. Youth and inexperience fueled by ego-inflating attention can make for lapses in judgement about how far they can allow a situation to go, and that's why adults are needed to chaperon.
In my experience supervising employees of the younger set I have had more 'problems' (more of an annoyance) with younger males hanging around than older guys. I know kids are kids, but slap and tickle is inappropriate especially when they are supposed to be working, and in a worst case scenario the drunk guy might get the idea in his head that it's OK to approach the girl when he observes her being playful with her boyfriend. I've seen it happen.
I'm not saying the girls need to be prudes, but they do need to be made aware of where they are at and who is around. And when it looks like they are pushing the envelope, sometimes the adults have to be the adults, Buzzkill and all.
Quote from: Rani Zemirah on October 04, 2011, 09:25:58 AM
Oh, I would most DEFINITELY give them the go-ahead to defend themselves, no matter what!!! If someone lays a hand on them, then all attempts at politely defusing the situation go right out the window!!!
I help teach self defense to girls getting ready to go into college. That's one thing we tell them. If someone lays hands on you after you have told them not to, then the assumption is that that person is planning on hurting you. All bets are off at that point.
Quote from: Dinobabe on October 06, 2011, 09:01:03 AM
Ironically, women are often brought up to be polite and non-physical regardless of the situation. Never yell, don't hit, etc... It is a shame that we don't teach self defense for girls in high school. I was sexually harassed in college and didn't know how to deal with it. To this day I wish I had canned him a good one. Now I would. I am currently taking kickboxing and plan on taking a few Krav Maga classes. Some men think they have the right to be pimps just because they are men (no one on here, of course!).
You are SO right! That's one thing we try really hard, in an 8 hour class, to teach out of girls. That mothering instinct/training can get you into some serious trouble. I personally really like the idea of a whistle. I got my daughter a keychain with an alarm on it. It's an earsplitting screech, a lot like a car alarm.
A word of advice- look closely at the way you're being taught to kick. Are you using the top of your foot as a contact point? If so, STOP!! I have seen so many kickboxers end up in casts because of that. Those bones are fragile. The ball of the foot right behind the toes are the best contact points.
Quote from: Nighthawk on October 06, 2011, 08:35:20 PM
A word of advice- look closely at the way you're being taught to kick. Are you using the top of your foot as a contact point? If so, STOP!! I have seen so many kickboxers end up in casts because of that. Those bones are fragile. The ball of the foot right behind the toes are the best contact points.
I've only taken 3 classes but the instructor is really big on correct use. He was very specific about using the ball of your foot for straight on and your shin (too high vs too low) for side kicks. I have quite a few bruises on my leg right now from lack of technique! I showed him the bruise on my ankle. He said the bruise should be higher! ;D
I want to thank everyone for the very thoughtful and helpful comments. I can see that in our case, a sign or pin might be taken as a challenge, and put an idea in a persons head that might not even have occurred to him otherwise.
A whistle is an excellent idea. Blowing it doesn't actually physically hurt anyone...at least not usually.
My 17 year old just wants to focus on her business, and my 13 year old just wants to be a kid, and play with her sisters and spend the money I pay her to babysit.
Hopefully we wont have any issues at all.
The fellow that taught me some self defence stuff always said if a guy grabs you and starts to hurt you take a souvenier, DNA is the key to catching people like that.
Also my brothers taught me alot, I was the youngest soo yeah.
I don't know if anyone mentioned this, didn't go back 3 pages of posts, but give a thought to what they are wearing.
I am sure your daughters are not in the least being provocative or suggestive in their dress, and you as a mother wouldn't allow that for young girls.
However...... there are a lot of drunk, stupid people around. Some people think (and I've seen this, unfortunately) that if a woman wears a bodice, she is a wench and wants to be rowdy and bawdy. The usually drunk guy thinking this doesn't differentiate between young girls wearing a bodice and a modest shirt or a mature woman showing whatever degree of "the girls" she chooses to.
Of course, those who know better realize this is not true. And I certainly don't think in any case that what someone is wearing SHOULD make a difference as to unwanted attention, especially to an underage child.
But perhaps dressing them in a 1 piece dress or something not as visible as a bodice and skirt might make it click in some drunk guy's head that she is NOT what he thinks of as a wench and he will leave her alone.
Do I think this is right? No. But even modest dress can be misconstrued for someone who has been drinking, and if a change of clothes deflects some unwanted attention, it might be worth a try.
Good point Lady Renee.
I've noticed that most of the younger girls working at fair tend to be more demurley dressed than the older women (probably due to momma nixing the push up bodice), but there is still a risk of being 'painted with the same brush' no matter how they dress. This happens more often at the Pirate fests. It's a stereotype, and it sucks.
Quote from: Dinobabe on October 06, 2011, 08:47:33 PM
Quote from: Nighthawk on October 06, 2011, 08:35:20 PM
A word of advice- look closely at the way you're being taught to kick. Are you using the top of your foot as a contact point? If so, STOP!! I have seen so many kickboxers end up in casts because of that. Those bones are fragile. The ball of the foot right behind the toes are the best contact points.
I've only taken 3 classes but the instructor is really big on correct use. He was very specific about using the ball of your foot for straight on and your shin (too high vs too low) for side kicks. I have quite a few bruises on my leg right now from lack of technique! I showed him the bruise on my ankle. He said the bruise should be higher! ;D
Perfect then! I have seen some kickboxing and teakwondo schools that have just horrified me.
Personally, I'd avoid the 'Dungeon Bait' signs, as most patrons might not get them. Hell, I first saw them this year, and my first thought was 'Oh, a kinky on- ... shiner bock, it's a play on jail bait, moving on.' I'd also avoid anything that points out how old they are. I'd use a pin that says 'My boyfriend/father will beat you if you touch me' only clever-er or 'I'm not on interested in flirting' or 'I'm taken' anything that flat out declares her off limits.
Quote from: Adriana Rose on October 04, 2011, 03:49:47 PM
Strangely it works having a man around for that matter. I have had at least one guy working for me for the past oh 3 years and the amount of creepers was tolerable, then this year none of my guys came back and we had quite a few pet drunks and the really creepy slobbery kind of guys. Despite my attempts to scoot them along they kept coming back, then if one of my guy friends stopped by for a chat they were on their way. Its rather funny really.
Back to the topic at hand if there is a problem get a brute squad so to speak and have a man hang out be it to be a runner or a helper the creepiness may leave your girls alone.
Hmmmmmm, reminds me of when I was the only male in a belly dancing troupe or, a few years later, escorting very attractive psychology classmates when they wanted to do some nightclubbing during a conference. I don't recall anyone ever bugging them.
No offense is taking about the "brute squad". Being an escort as in "escort destroyer" I think rather plays to our egos.
Thanks again for all of the help. The girls are extremely conservatively dressed by their own choice, so that is not a contributing factor.
We did not have any problems opening weekend, so I'm hopeful that the whole situation will turn out to be a nonissue.
Hang around, or get Warrior Monks like these to tactically position themselves around your location.
Works better than a 20-gauge galvannealed steel, interior locked, chastity belt!
(http://i51.tinypic.com/33bpte9.jpg)
Drive off unsolicited advances by hungry pilgrims with your very own Warrior Monk Chapter Rally!
Guaranteed or your salvation back. :P ;) ;D
This weekend at CRF a male friend bought my daughter a pin that states "I am way too young for what you are thinking!" TO which she promply displayed it on her bodice. Not to mention we hang around/near a large group of guys that my daughter is comfortable with and I worry less cause they won't let anyone near her if she doesn't want them too.
You may wish to get to know your neighbors, as someone mentioned, and find your girls some "Rennie uncles" as my daughter has them all over the faire.
Go over to the Enigma Booth, ask for Chameleon or Vampy, explain the situation, tell them I sent you. Then go over to Authentic Wardrobe, ask for Griffin or Ivy, same drill. Make friends with Barbarian cast that patrols your area. The food booths & pub near you have security radios. The girls will have plenty of places to run to & large people to hide behind if need be.
too funny W/M. You can guard my charge any day!
Quote from: amy on October 11, 2011, 12:36:55 PM
too funny W/M. You can guard my charge any day!
;D It's what we were made for.........historically......really..
Quote from: Warrior Monk on October 11, 2011, 12:51:15 PM
Quote from: amy on October 11, 2011, 12:36:55 PM
too funny W/M. You can guard my charge any day!
;D It's what we were made for.........historically......really..
The Knights Templar: Protecting underage maidens from drunken perverts.
Hmmm ... not quite the way I would have described it historically. Equally noble, but nonetheless ... ;)
Pilgrims Brother....pilgrims. :P ;D
Protecting underage maidens from drunken pilgrims? You wouldn't think that situation comes up all that often.
(I'm joking I'm joking)
It's the hats. Those silly Pilgrim hats. Destroys their self-esteem. Leads to drunkenness.
Sorry, back on topic ...
I was thinking about the circumstances in which I would intervene, and I realized it has a lot to do with the demeanor of the woman or young lady involved.
If she's smiling and appears to be going along with things, I am unlikely to intervene.
But she shouldn't allow herself to appear panicky or vulnerable either, because if no one chivalrous was about, that could spur on the offenders.
However, if she was not smiling, and/or backing away, I think it would be clear both to the offender and to potential helpers that help was desired.
Those are just my thoughts. Does that make sense?
Quote from: iain robb on October 13, 2011, 06:19:19 AM
However, if she was not smiling, and/or backing away, I think it would be clear both to the offender and to potential helpers that help was desired.
Amen.
There are quite a few of us Faire brothers & Uncles about at TRF... All our lasses have to do is yell "Peanut butter" and they'll have large, burly types coming to the rescue. I don't care how drunk you are... the sight of a 6'4" 250lbs Scot, with a blackthorn in hand, bearing down on you, will sober you up real quick. Multply that by four to six and most will beat a hasty retreat... if they have ANY sense they will. ;)
*The LEOs won't be far behind...*
Peanut Butter is a great safe word. There are lots of Fest Uncles about at any faire I think. Speaking as a mother of a petite 15 year old, THANK YOU!
I've luckily never had a guy be inapropriate with me. However the other ladies in my small clan would come running just as a Ren brother/uncle would. First day I'm well armed so I'm not worried. I've had clear admirers and thats all fine, I find it flattering :) But someone covered in celtic warrier get up pianted blue with 5 pieces of leather armour dosen't hurt. If worse came to worse you could yell or holler and someone would come running.
I plan to take my neice to Ren Faire when she's older, so this is what I have to look forward to. Probably get a riot act talk from BIL lol.