It seems to me I had seen an image on this site of a Lady in garb and what looked like a doublet worn with a skirt. Was I just seeing things? I ask this because my wife would like to know how to improve the warmth of her Ren Garb. What is period and functional
There are MANY ways to have warm garb. And no, you weren't seeing things. :-)
http://www.festiveattyre.com/research/diary/diary6.html (http://www.festiveattyre.com/research/diary/diary6.html) - There are a couple up at this site.
(http://www.costumes.org/history/kohler/275Renaissance.JPG)
The one above is an extant women's doublet from about 1570's.
Now, of course, these are all late 16th Century. Women didn't wear doublets until the 1570's in England and it was considered somewhat risque given it was seen as a man's garment.
For warmth; coats, Spanish surcotes, lining skirts in fur, lining sleeves in fur, muffs, and so much more. There are tons of examples of what they wore in winter all of which are quite lovely.
Simplicity 3782 has a pretty good base for a ladies doublet. I have seen some variations of the bodice turned into a doublet.
For warmth I use longjohn leggings and shirts under my garb. I also have a flannel chemise and pantaloons that I wear too. We froze our collective bums off one weekend so I made warm under things and we have yet to have a cold weekend again but always be ready. Velvets and wools are good to have at least one skirt out of too. Oh and dont forget a good cloak. ;D
Definitely layer up. Long johns are good - if the neckline shows, just cut it down below the bodice's neckline.
There is a lot of garb that will keep any lady warm and still be period:
Quilted petticoats! - I have one for my 18th C garb and have been meaning to make one for my 16th C.
Slightly thicker high necked linen smock. - You loose a lot of heat out of your shoulder/neck area. Even a light covering will help immensely.
Ladies pantaloons - http://realmofvenus.renaissanceitaly.net/workbox/extdraw.htm (http://realmofvenus.renaissanceitaly.net/workbox/extdraw.htm) They had them. The thicker embroidered extant ones look very much like ones that show up in many illustrations from the later 16th C. Adding a bit of a heavier lining to those would be fine for winter wear. However, even the thin ones will help, especially with a quilted petticoat.
Also, don't forget the materials the garb is made out of. Wool and velvet are both wonderful for colder temps. Gloves, muffs, hats, and coats also help. No one needs to go for something modern under their garb - it got cold in the Renaissance too.
I'm not certain if cloaks are HA, but it's what I wear. I live in Florida, but our late winter faires can be cold and damp. Nothing like my lightweight wool cloak to keep the elements out. Added bonus, the hood protects my hat until I can get in out of the rain.
Yes also to a high neck chemise/ partlet, and warm stockings and don't forget some pretty doeskin gloves.
Quote from: isabelladangelo on October 28, 2011, 02:17:39 PM
Slightly thicker high necked linen smock. - You loose a lot of heat out of your shoulder/neck area. Even a light covering will help immensely.
I second this. I find that if I wear my partlet and a cap that covers my ears (both shown in my avatar), it really does go a *long* way to alleviating any chill (without being overwarm when the day heats up in the afternoon).
Coats are also period, and a lot warmer and more practical than cloaks. I'm partial to doublets, myself, and a Google search for "doublet bodice" (to distinguish it from men's doublets) or "doublet gown" will bring up lots of hits. Margo Anderson's Elizabethan Lady's Ensemble includes a pattern for a doublet bodice, as do
Patterns of Fashion and
The Tudor Tailor.
Tudor Tailor also has a pattern for a less fitted jacket, which they call a waistcoat (like this (http://freespace.virgin.net/f.lea/waistcoat8.jpg)), and a couple more cold-weather options that are quite fetching.
They also had really beautiful sweaters, though they don't show up in portraits that often, that are reminiscent of modern Dale of Norway cardigans. Isabella, I seem to recall you have a link to one of the extant pieces?
I don't think wearing modern long underwear is a problem, personally; most of us probably haven't added a set of bias-cut (or frame knitted) woollen stockings to our garb yet, after all. A nice pair of silk leggings will do the same job discreetly and comfortably, and you won't have to pile on as many bulky layers of skirt simply to stay warm. (Does anyone remember in "The King's Speech" when Geoffrey Rush's sons are reading in their apartment--
wearing their winter coats because it's so chilly? And that was the 20th century! Yeah. I'm guessing they didn't like being forced into all those bulky extra layers any more than we do!)
Margo Anderson has a doublet pattern, they are very good patterns but her patterns are not cheap. here is a link if you are interested. Main site - http://www.margospatterns.com/
doublet pattern - http://www.margospatterns.com/Products/ElizWrdrb.html
http://larsdatter.com/knit.htm - all knitted items!
The silk jackets -or cardigans as we'd call them today- were mostly worn in the home and not really outside of it. My guess is they were more like a robe and less like a modern sweater in terms of how they viewed them. But yes, they very much exist.
I'm curious what your wife's current garb is, Captain. Is she wanting to have something made to suit your own garb, or does she wear something more casual?
Quote from: gem on October 28, 2011, 03:28:56 PM
They also had really beautiful sweaters, though they don't show up in portraits that often, that are reminiscent of modern Dale of Norway cardigans. Isabella, I seem to recall you have a link to one of the extant pieces?
Camiciolas - halfway down here: http://aneafiles.webs.com/glossary.html
As for period, functional and warm: you've gotten tons of good advices already. But in general: layering. I've written about it in Italian context, but it could easily be transferred to other styles as well. Most of the items were in use all over Europe, though the style might have varied. Here is picture examples: http://aneafiles.webs.com/renaissancegallery/italian.html
Over the dress your wife can wear various items to keep warm. A large cloak is wonderful, but would be slightly old fashioned for mid/late 16th century style. Shaped doublets and jackets became more popular. You've gotten nice examples of this already, so I won't add too much to that. In foul weather, a short cloak only covering the shoulders were sometimes used too. It was usually made of wool felt dipped in/inserted with oils to make it water proof. It usually had a hood.
As for jackets, it's often considered Jacobean (I.E. 17th century), but the other day I wrote a bit about the Italian 16th century equivalent in my blog, here: http://operafantomet.livejournal.com/246447.html
Hope it gave you a couple of ideas!
A garment which became vastly popular in Italy in the second half of the 16th century was the zimarra. It's a long, wide overdress which probably was inspired by the kaftans of the Ottoman empire. It often had frog fastening in the front and/or ornamental trims, and it could be sleeveless for summer, or fur lined for winter. It could also have detachable and/or hanging sleeves. I don't know how much popularity these overdresses gained in the rest of Europe, but in Italy (especially Venice and Florence, which did quite a bit of silk trade with the Ottomans) they became incredibly popular, until the more fitted doublet overdress took over.
Examples from portraits:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v31/operafantomet/renaissanceportraits/roma/th_altissimo1535giuliagonzaga.jpg) (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v31/operafantomet/renaissanceportraits/roma/altissimo1535giuliagonzaga.jpg) (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v31/operafantomet/renaissanceportraits/firenze2/th_bronschooledt1560s2.jpg) (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v31/operafantomet/renaissanceportraits/firenze2/bronschooledt1560s2.jpg) (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v31/operafantomet/renaissanceportraits/venezia2/th_domenicoriccio1567palazzothiene.jpg) (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v31/operafantomet/renaissanceportraits/venezia2/domenicoriccio1567palazzothiene.jpg) (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v31/operafantomet/renaissanceportraits/venezia2/th_countessliviabyveronese.jpg) (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v31/operafantomet/renaissanceportraits/venezia2/countessliviabyveronese.jpg) (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v31/operafantomet/renaissanceportraits/venezia2/th_spilimbergo1560.jpg) (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v31/operafantomet/renaissanceportraits/venezia2/spilimbergo1560.jpg) (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v31/operafantomet/renaissanceportraits/firenze2/th_bronzinoschool1555.jpg) (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v31/operafantomet/renaissanceportraits/firenze2/bronzinoschool1555.jpg) (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v31/operafantomet/renaissanceportraits/venezia2/th_micheli1565genova3.jpg) (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v31/operafantomet/renaissanceportraits/venezia2/micheli1565genova3.jpg)
Especially the ones worn by Giulia Giulia Gonzaga (1) and Countess Livia da Porto Thiene (4), looks gorgeous. Imagine being wrapped in soft fur on a cold autumn/winder day... M-m-m... But it would probably be an expensive item to recreate if it's to be fully lined. I'm mostly mentioning it to show they dressed for summer and winter in the past as well, just as we do today. By the use of drawers, wool stockings, partlets, knitted sweaters, fur lined overdresses etc. they knew how to keep warm!
Few or none 16th century zimarras has survived. One from late 16th or early 17th century Venice can be found in a museum in France, however:
http://realmofvenus.renaissanceitaly.net/workbox/extwomclo5.htm
Quote from: Colleen McGuinness on October 28, 2011, 02:05:39 PM
Definitely layer up. Long johns are good - if the neckline shows, just cut it down below the bodice's neckline.
I get silk long johns for winter use. They are less bulky than cable knit and they are just as warm.
Quote from: operafantomet on October 29, 2011, 05:30:21 AM
A garment which became vastly popular in Italy in the second half of the 16th century was the zimarra. It's a long, wide overdress which probably was inspired by the kaftans of the Ottoman empire. It often had frog fastening in the front and/or ornamental trims, and it could be sleeveless for summer, or fur lined for winter. It could also have detachable and/or hanging sleeves. I don't know how much popularity these overdresses gained in the rest of Europe, but in Italy (especially Venice and Florence, which did quite a bit of silk trade with the Ottomans) they became incredibly popular, until the more fitted doublet overdress took over.
They are called Spanish Surcotes in England.
http://www.elizabethan-portraits.com/TBElizabeth1a.jpg (http://www.elizabethan-portraits.com/TBElizabeth1a.jpg)
QEI owned and wore several.
Those do look very comfy.
Isabella: thank you for the name of the English equivalent.
Another thing to keep warm: muffs!
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v323/reiseaudun/th_periodmuffs.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v323/reiseaudun/periodmuffs.jpg)
The first shows a Venetian lady from ca. 1595. The other is also from 1595, but shows an outfit "in the French style". The third is a Venetian courtesan from the early or mid 17th century.
More info + a gorgeous recreation here: http://renaissanceitaly.net/mygarb/muff.htm
that looks yummy! On my if I had the time list is a rabbit skin lined cloak. I think it would be fablous but I just dont have the time and well my faire is in June and July. Maybe if I take the shop on the road for a fall show I will do it then,
Y'all are so very generous with your time and info. Thank you all very much. Nancy's garb is very basic. We are in Virginia and attend VARF in May and June. Her garb is "Seasonal" Basic stuff as in a skirt, Bodice, and chemise. We are planning on a visit to Carolina Faire on Nov. 12 which is why I asked.
Here are a couple shots from Varf in 2010.
(http://i295.photobucket.com/albums/mm148/frankblanton/053010064.jpg)
(http://i295.photobucket.com/albums/mm148/frankblanton/053010065.jpg)
Definatly closed toe shoes you dont want cold toes! :o
Like I said earlier warm leggings, fluffy socks and a long sleeve under shirt gets the job done.
What a handsome couple you make, Captain.:)
I agree your wife might be fine with some warm underthings. I' m thinking Carolina would be chilly during the mornings, but turn pleasant by mid day. Of course, the weather being what it is this year......
She'll need an entire new outfit. ;) I'd go with a high necked smock -it looks more complicated than it really is. It's basically two big rectangles for the body, two smaller rectangles for the sleeves, your basic collar and wristbands, plus a few gores tucked in on the sides of the body and at the neckline where it gets gathered. Do it out of a light or medium weight linen.
She'll need a new pair of bodies. It looks like she might have lost some weight since she originally bought them in the photo because it looks a bit loose. The doublet is designed to go over a pair of bodies. There is actually a very good Simplicity Pattern out that she might want to look at. http://www.simplicity.com/p-2009-costumes.aspx (http://www.simplicity.com/p-2009-costumes.aspx) See if she likes the red dress. The "underwear" for it is here: http://www.simplicity.com/p-1576-costumes.aspx (http://www.simplicity.com/p-1576-costumes.aspx)
Since time is an issue, what you might want to do instead is make a new pair of bodies, the new smock, and a couple of new skirts. I wore my 18th Century quilted petticoat last night and was perfectly warm. It also gives the overskirt some body. You can get pre quilted material pretty easily at joanns. Just cut it out in gores or pleat it up (take the stuffing out of the waistband area so you can pleat it). It shouldn't take much time at all. Over the quilted petticoat, she can wear either heavy linen or a velvet skirt (wool is best but it's $$$ right now). That with a velvet Spanish Surcote (very simple to make. I made one the other day out of fleece for my Mom in about an hour and a half) and she'll be warm. :-)
A nice warm cloak will go a long way too, for both of you. I have a couple made from blanket-fleece that are VERY cozy (one actually WAS a throw blanket that someone used to make a cloak for me, the other was yardage from the fabric store). I also have a fur wrap that I ADORE and get tons of comments on that is quite literally just 2.5 yards of faux fur - mink, I believe - that I sewed (inside out) down the long edge and across one end, flipped rightside out and stiched the open end together. Really simple but it looks rich and expensive. I would like to do another with some lining on the inside, maybe flannel.
Isabella, you are a wonder that you could make all that in two weeks. I envy your sewing skills. :)
A wrap is a great idea. It would suit the style of her garb and be more versatile. I wore a liteweight one before I purchased my cloak and the nice thing about it was you could bundle under it or when the day became warm pin it to one shoulder and let it hang open.
Mine was simple a large square of wool flannel. Didn't even need sewing as I fringed the edges all around with scissors.
Fur lined.....yum. :)
Quote from: Anna Iram on November 01, 2011, 10:53:36 AM
Isabella, you are a wonder that you could make all that in two weeks. I envy your sewing skills. :)
A wrap is a great idea. It would suit the style of her garb and be more versatile. I wore a liteweight one before I purchased my cloak and the nice thing about it was you could bundle under it or when the day became warm pin it to one shoulder and let it hang open.
Fur lined.....yum. :)
A regular skirt shouldn't take more than a half hour - you cut the edge of the fabric for a waistband and you pleat the rest of it up to your waist size. Last week, I made two in the morning for work since I had no idea what to wear that day.
A chemise shouldn't take much more time if you are doing a basic Italian style. A high neck shouldn't take more than an hour.
Really, the only thing time consuming is the pair of bodies and that should be around three hours. (Cutting the duct ties takes forever)
Even the Spanish Surcote is really simple. I use the http://www.wodefordhall.com/surcote.htm but make regular armscyes and not the sideless. You have a front opening rather than a pull over and add sleeves. I also like to add the shoulder rolls which are nothing more than strips of the same fabric -sometimes covered in trim- pinned to the shoulder area. You just make little loops out of the strips.
If you do one item a day, you can have an entire new outfit in a week.
Quote from: Anna Iram on November 01, 2011, 10:53:36 AM
Fur lined.....yum. :)
Oh, not even fur-lined.....just fur. I got petted a lot. :-)
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/298754_2410311330047_1019133134_2807634_597057368_n.jpg)
There is a vendor on Etsy that has some really good looking faux fur by the yard. I am working with her for some for a christmas present for my mom and she is very nice!
Colleen, the pair of you look scrumptious. How do you keep your faux fur clean without it looking ratty?
Quote from: DonaCatalina on November 02, 2011, 10:36:15 AM
Colleen, the pair of you look scrumptious. How do you keep your faux fur clean without it looking ratty?
It really hasn't been a problem. I only use that one on dry cold days but I've just thrown it on the washer and dryer a couple times during the season and it has held up really well for the past couple seasons. It still looks almost good-as-new.
Quote from: Captain Dungcaster on October 31, 2011, 08:47:33 PM
(http://i295.photobucket.com/albums/mm148/frankblanton/053010065.jpg)
For this I would suggest:
*Modern tights, preferably of wool (and the ones which stays up!)
*More period looking knee highs, of wool also (H&M has a great selection)
*Mary Janes for the feel. Put a wool or thinsulate sole in there, and the feet will stay fairly warm.
*A thick cream or flesh coloured jersey (the wool/silk mix ones are divine) with a fairly open neck.
*An underskirt. Partly for warmth, partly for lifting the current skirt.
*Maybe a partlet to close the exposed throat area. But this is a give-or-take.
And then the hard part: some sort of long sleeved overgarb. This will have to be made rather than store bought. There are many alternatives to what it can be. Most have already been suggested:
*Zimarra/wide overdress. If the opening is lined with fur it'll be cooooomy.
*Short jacket, tight in the waist and wide over the hips. Think Jacobean jackets.
*Doublet bodice with sleeves.
*Also a shawl or wrap of some sort, though this is more 19th century than 16th century.
And as for the hands, both leather gloves and muffs is perfectly period. Another popular item was the "zibellino", the fur with elaborate gold-and-gem studded animal head. It could be worn around the neck, or one could "hide" the hands in it. It was much in vogue in the 16th century, at least in Italy. It was usually attached to the girdle (the precious metal belt).
This portrait of Livia da Porto and daughter shows both a fur lined zimarra (wide overdress) and a zibellino worn over one hand. Something tells me this portrait was painted during wintertime!
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v31/operafantomet/renaissanceportraits/venezia2/countessliviabyveronese.jpg)
More picture examples here: http://larsdatter.com/zibellini.htm
Basically I just wanted to show that you can wear modern wool underclothes under your costume, and they can easily be purchased at H&M and similar large stores. Hope it gave you some more inputs!