Hello ladies...and gents!! It has been absolute AGES since I have been on the boards and posting. Life happens, I suppose. But I suddenly got the festival itch (though my festival doesn't start for about 6 months, ha!) and am looking around for inspiration for a new bodice this year. I'm running into problems, though...
You see, most of my garb (99%...not kidding) was made pre-baby (ie 110-115 lb frame). My little one is 4 now and shortly after having him I was diagnosed as having hypothyroidism as well as pcos.. and both have made me gain a TON of weight.. we won't even discuss how much, we'll just leave it as significantly more than my prebaby body weight! So, none of those old outfits fit (shame, because they were beautiful). The first year, I bought a bodice at the festival but I have even outgrown that. I have an under bust bodice that I can manage..but it isn't my favorite and not very flattering. I went for the past few seasons saying I'm not going to make/buy anything because I WILL lose the weight. FAIL! That never has happened, so I determined this year I was going to get a new bodice. I am confident I'll be repurchasing from the very merry seamstress because I have never been let down by the garb I get from her. The problem I'm facing, though, is a particular style bodice. My weight gain is typical of pcos and hypothyroidism where it is mainly in the stomach. The weight isn't a normal placement...as in, it really is mostly in the stomach..I almost have a pregnant look because my stomach is fuller than my bust. Bodices tend to end at the natural waist line, which will squish all that excess weight down, creating a super inner tube look! I don't really know what to do because of that. I don't want to wear a dress that has more of an empire waist line because I feel that I already have to do that in my mundane clothing and love the look of the bodices that actually cut all the way down to the natural waist. I'm just not fond of the idea of having the squish spilling out of the bottom of the bodice. I guess I'm curious if anyone has advice on a flattering cut? Will it help if it has multiple lacing points/where would be the best lacing points? I am considering this: (http://www.verymerryseamstress.com/pictures/bv03.jpg)
But lord knows Heather is significantly thinner than myself in that photo.
I don't know.. I feel like I've hit a wall with ideas on the most flattering garb for me to wear now. :'(
First off, welcome back! :) Second, Cute bodice! I'd think it would work fine if you lace it top to bottom as shown. That would give you two places to let it out a bit. Be sure to ask her to make modesty panels.
Can't decide if the white laces would draw attention to your tummy, or not. Cute look though. I wonder if she can do this with matching eyelets so you could use lacing in the same color as the bodice?
I think you would look lovely in Italian high Renaissance style. That is, the style depicted by Raphael, Bacchiacca, Andrea del Sarto and the likes. They depicted high waisted bodices, and full flowing skirts, and with a waist emphasized with a belt. I'm thinking dresses in this style:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v31/operafantomet/renaissanceportraits/firenze1/th_raphael1505.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v31/operafantomet/renaissanceportraits/firenze1/raphael1505.jpg) (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v31/operafantomet/renaissanceportraits/firenze1/th_raphael1506.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v31/operafantomet/renaissanceportraits/firenze1/raphael1506.jpg) (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v31/operafantomet/renaissanceportraits/firenze1/th_raphael1506b.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v31/operafantomet/renaissanceportraits/firenze1/raphael1506b.jpg) (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v31/operafantomet/renaissanceportraits/firenze1/th_raphael1507.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v31/operafantomet/renaissanceportraits/firenze1/raphael1507.jpg) (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v31/operafantomet/renaissanceportraits/firenze1/th_bacchiacca1520.jpg) (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v31/operafantomet/renaissanceportraits/firenze1/bacchiacca1520.jpg)
If you make it side/back laced, as was custom, you can also drastically alter the size. Though this Florentine dress is of later style, it shows how mid Italian bodices were typically laced (and it had lacing like that on both sides):
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v31/operafantomet/pavonazzo/blueflor18lacing.jpg
Jennifer Thompson at Festive Attyre has made a dress in this style, of a salmon/pink silk accented with black and green. There are tons of helpful patterns, advices and comments in her dress diary:
http://www.festiveattyre.com/research/diary/diary.html
I made a similar dress some years ago, based on the first portrait above. It can be seen here:
http://aneafiles.webs.com/unicorn.html
I second operafantomet. The early Italian style is your best bet. Weight gain and loss isn't as huge a worry with that style until you lose a LOT of weight.
First, a ginormous SQUEEEE!!! to see you back here, Fortune!!
Regardless of where (or whether) you make or buy, I'm going to suggest you have a look at the bodices over at Odd Bodkin (http://oddbodkin.com/shop/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=120&zenid=f4ab2b290ba089dd805e2458d70b9223). Devlyn features models of all shapes and sizes in her photos, and you can get a good idea of what styles look good on women with your figure type.
Have you tried anything on to see how squishable your new figure is? (And where the various bits squish *to?*) That will help you figure out what you'll be comfortable in--both physically and in terms of how beautiful you feel.
Another option, of course, is to go with a period corset and gown--nice wide farthingale to balance out your midsection, lots of detail in the shoulders and sleeves to bring the attention up toward your face.
Gem, thank you! ;D It has been absolute ages since I have been active on here! I've been spending some time playing catch up and reading through quite old posts (I have a lot of reading material now, that is for sure!)
I haven't tried on any properly fitting bodices at my current size, no. The closest to fitting me is an under bust bodice that was a nursing bodice prototype and in that one all the squish goes downward and I end up with a prominent roll in the bottom front. In past seasons I have masked it by layering very full skirts. Too bad the weight wouldn't go to my bosom, that would have been easier (and funner!) to work around! ;)
I may end up going the route of Italian since that would be easiest, but I'll admit it isn't my favorite look. I am kind of wondering how a standard faire bodice would look if I added a bum roll and a hoopskirt... if that would give me a more intentional flair/fluff below the bodice instead of the oh-wow-stuffed-sausage look.
However, saying that... I started browsing around at vendors who have photos of Italian dresses and this one caught my attention, but I've never heard of the vendor. I posted about it in the list of trusted vendors, too. Its Aetas Designs: http://aetasdesigns.com/aetas/. They have a dress called the Larell that may (?) fit okay.
(http://aetasdesigns.com/aetas/wp-content/uploads/wpsc/cache/product_img_106_450x300.jpg)
Or at least something along those lines. Thoughts?
Thanks again, ladies, for your help. I appreciate it!
That style is the forerunner of the high Renaissance style discussed above. The forerunner has recently been made famous through "The Borgias" and "Assassin's Creed". It's also a lovely style. Biggest difference is that it historically included an underdress and overdress (the later style used only an underdress), and that the sleeves are narrower and often split.
Though I won't push a style on you if you don't like it, I just have to say that the high Renaissance style is never prettier than when worn by a curvy woman. Whereas I look nice enough in that green Unicorn dress, it came so much more to life when a curvier friend of mine borrowed it this Christmas. Had she not made a face and pulled her underskirt here, it would be the perfect picture of how flattering the silhouette was on her. She became the belle of the ball.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v31/operafantomet/unicorn/unicornunderskirt.jpg)
(I was posting at the same time as Anea!)
I happen to think that that's gorgeous. And it would be SO super-easy to make, too! Although it's not totally H/A, it reminds me of Caravaggio's Judith (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/b2/Caravaggio_Judith_Beheading_Holofernes.jpg/800px-Caravaggio_Judith_Beheading_Holofernes.jpg), only, you know, more dressed-looking. :D
I know what you mean about the bodice smooshing things *downward,* too. In the last two years, to my everlasting sorrow, I have inherited the little bit of lower-ab fluff that all the women in my mother's family have (sigh). Bodices look best if they hit at the natural waist on the sides/back, and have either just a *slight* downward curve in front... or an extreme one (like my Simplicity corset (http://pic50.picturetrail.com/VOL417/1033223/23241773/387656749.jpg)). Anything in between just squishes everything in the most unfortunate way possible.
Cartridge pleats that go all the way around are another good disguise for ab fluff. When I first made my Campi dress (http://pic50.picturetrail.com/VOL417/1033223/23882966/398628645.jpg), I was worried that the pleats made me look wider at the waist/hips, but what they actually do is... look like pleats! I feel much more comfortable about how I look in this dress than in the one I made where I left the front smooth.
That said, I'm more of an hourglass so my figure issues are a little different than yours, so take what I say with a grain of salt!
Anea, I think one of my biggest concerns is that it'll look more... rippled and not cuvy, lol.. if that makes sense. What is worn under something like that green dress? Do you wear a corset under it? It doesn't seem like one would, what with the natural curve of the breast to upper torso area. (though I could be way off) Your friend does look lovely in it, I have to admit. I don't at all feel any styles are being forced on me. I'm beyond thrilled to have any and all suggestions... helps me to get a better idea. Plus, what I may typically like isn't necessarily the best cut and style for my current figure.. and I'd rather have those with greater knowledge of period garb assist in suggesting flattering dresses.
When I gained most of my weight I was mortified at how I looked trussed into my Elizabethan garb... So stepped back and made two jumper style gowns that are Italian"esque"... Sadly not hystorically accurate, but the bodice is very short. In fact just below the bustline with small lacing and a full gathered skirt. I am very comfortable in them. And you can still play with pretty sleeves, bare shoulders and lovely color and jewelry.. which always looks good on EVERY figure!
(http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3509/5840061839_980cf2fb57.jpg)
This one is "peasant" style but so comfy on a hot day
You look cute, Amy. :)
I'm wondering if a venetian would work for you:
http://realmofvenus.renaissanceitaly.net/yourgarb/2006/Kendra.htm
It could be more relaxed thana traditional bodice, though a corset is worn under it, and the "v" would draw the eye up.
Quote from: FortuneRose on March 10, 2012, 03:00:53 PM
Anea, I think one of my biggest concerns is that it'll look more... rippled and not cuvy, lol.. if that makes sense. What is worn under something like that green dress? Do you wear a corset under it? It doesn't seem like one would, what with the natural curve of the breast to upper torso area. (though I could be way off) Your friend does look lovely in it, I have to admit. I don't at all feel any styles are being forced on me. I'm beyond thrilled to have any and all suggestions... helps me to get a better idea. Plus, what I may typically like isn't necessarily the best cut and style for my current figure.. and I'd rather have those with greater knowledge of period garb assist in suggesting flattering dresses.
The bodice is stiffened with hemp cording ( http://www.festiveattyre.com/research/cording/cord.html ) between two layers of silk/linen, then interlined, and then with the fancy fabric on top. I only wear a chemise and underskirt underneath. I can't stand corsets, so I always stiffen my bodices so they function without it. For pre-1600 it's usually how it was done anyway.
Amy, I love that apron in the picture you posted!
Amy, that is exactly how I feel when I try to get into the garb that (semi) fits me... and I think you ladies are right.. The more I'm looking at portraits as well as dress diaries, I think I'm going to go the route of SOMETHING Italian-esque and try to jazz it up. The cut, it seems, it just going to be the most flattering and comfortable and keep me from feeling self conscious about squishing. I like your idea, Amy, of playing it up with decorative sleeves and jewelry. I've collected a folder, now, of inspirational photos.
Anna, I did look at Venetian and DO love the looks of them... that is one that I can remember wanting to make about 5 years ago but just never did. However, I still think that it would show more of the weight than I'd like. Still on my radar to make one day, though (ahem, when the weight is down some) :P
Anea, when I was spending most of yesterday searching the web for inspiration your pictures came up so much! In your own blog, on featured websites... you are an Italian gown star! ;D
You definitly don't want to spend the day feeling squished. Might be the higher waisted italian would be far more comfortable. It's certainly a beautiful style and I think it would be fun to wear. Italian gowns are so feminine. I just wanted you to consider that you don't have to hide your new body, to look and feel beautiful Though clearly the Venetian is cinched you could go looser for now. Just smooth over your tummy. I thought perhaps the long "v" front would gice you a nice line and the corset style you were looking at. Of course this is all just an idea. As Gem said, it would be ideal if you could try on various cuts of corsets, from short to long waisted, to see their effect.
Anyway, I completly understand how you feel. Looking forward to seeing what you choose. :)
I wish I had the ability to try on different styles. It would definitely help with decision making and seeing how things will actually look. Part of me is considering attempting a hemp corded corset. I read through the link Anea provided about working with it and from her experience, the experience of the author of that page, and countless others... it would seem that is a very comfortable (and shape appropriate) corset with many Italian gowns. I don't know if my skills can do it justice.. but it would save me money and I don't even know of anyone who actually makes/sells those types of corsets. Oddly enough, I was looking through my binder and pulled that website and printed off that info a little over a year ago when I was considering going for a more Italian-esque dress.
Has anyone else made a similar corded corset?
Gem is the corded and hemp corset girl here! Really has made some amazing pieces that way
Since my kidney transplant, I have no muscle tone in my abdomen, and I am not allowed to do crunches or sit-ups or any type of ab work. So I have what I call my "pouf" in the front. The Moresca Pirate Bodice is cut longer in the front and does wonders for keeping the belly from pouffing out from underneath the bottom and making a tire at the top of your skirt.
(http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e109/LadyReneeBuchanan/Jan312011Renee.jpg)
It was comfortable without squishing, but unfortunately, the bottom sat right over my donated, transplanted kidney, and I was worried about it being affected when I laced it, so I sold it. In the picture, I didn't lace it all the way closed because of that. It is just a style that won't work for me because of my health condition, but it is slenderizing and does a great job of not making the stomach bulge out from underneath.
Ooo, Lady Renee!! You look very nice in that bodice! You're right, if you have any squish, it certainly isn't showing it. It seems to only be showing fluff in the "right" places ;) THANK YOU for sharing that photo! That gives me an idea of what it would look like with a longer cut bodice.
Quote from: amy on March 11, 2012, 01:06:07 PM
Gem is the corded and hemp corset girl here! Really has made some amazing pieces that way
Not me! I just talk a lot. :D
The coral colored Italian gown I posted earlier has a corded bodice (the one with the cartridge pleats all round), so it doesn't require any additional underpinnings.
I've also made a corded version of the pink Simplicity corset, but it's currently a UFO (still needs binding and eyelets, and also I have nothing to wear *with* it, and unlike my pink linen one, is decidedly inner wear ONLY).
It's really no more difficult, skill-wise, than any other boning method. If you find a pattern that you like (and, really, Simplicity 2621* (http://www.simplicity.com/p-1576-costumes.aspx) might be a great start--it's long in front like Lady R and I recommended, and has a really good fit overall), you can just adapt it for cording by how closely you space the boning channels. That, for me, was the most difficult part to master--getting the channels narrow enough for the proper support, but not so narrow I couldn't get the cord through. A combination of Jen's floral-wire-with-a-loop-at-the-end and Mythrin's discarded windshield wiper blade tools worked perfectly for me.
Cording will give you a curvier fit than rigid boning, but if you follow the links on Jen's site, you can see how versatile it is. People have used it for everything from contemporary bridal bodices (Anea! ;D) to Elizabethan effigy bodies. But it is THE PERFECT answer for the beautiful soft, lifted curves of the earlier Italian looks.
(*More about Simplicity 2621--I love this pattern so much, I made a whole dress (http://pic50.picturetrail.com/VOL417/1033223/23882966/398339163.jpg) out of it! That's a fully-boned [cable ties] bodice, with a skirt attached. The hem is stiffened with 2" cotton belting. I even made some tie-on sleeves (http://pic50.picturetrail.com/VOL417/1033223/23865558/398366742.jpg). My point is that if you got a good fit with it, it can be so much more than just a corset! Use gorgeous fabric, add trim and tabs and ruffles/peplums, and you can get a totally custom fancy bodice look. Um, which I now want to do, after writing that! LOL!!)
I actually started that simplicity corset, oh goodness, something like 2 years ago! I got nearly to the point of putting the boning in and for whatever reason one night it got put down and never picked back up! I should pull it out and see if I can work it so that it has the channels for the hemp cord and not the original intended cable ties. If not, I still have the pattern and can start a new one.
Quote from: FortuneRose on March 11, 2012, 10:42:32 AM
Anea, when I was spending most of yesterday searching the web for inspiration your pictures came up so much! In your own blog, on featured websites... you are an Italian gown star! ;D
Or I just had a period where I was waaaaay too active on the internet... ;D
Quote from: gem on March 11, 2012, 04:26:33 PM
Quote from: amy on March 11, 2012, 01:06:07 PM
Gem is the corded and hemp corset girl here! Really has made some amazing pieces that way
Not me! I just talk a lot. :D
The coral colored Italian gown I posted earlier has a corded bodice (the one with the cartridge pleats all round), so it doesn't require any additional underpinnings.
I've also made a corded version of the pink Simplicity corset, but it's currently a UFO (still needs binding and eyelets, and also I have nothing to wear *with* it, and unlike my pink linen one, is decidedly inner wear ONLY).
It's really no more difficult, skill-wise, than any other boning method. If you find a pattern that you like (and, really, Simplicity 2621* (http://www.simplicity.com/p-1576-costumes.aspx) might be a great start--it's long in front like Lady R and I recommended, and has a really good fit overall), you can just adapt it for cording by how closely you space the boning channels. That, for me, was the most difficult part to master--getting the channels narrow enough for the proper support, but not so narrow I couldn't get the cord through. A combination of Jen's floral-wire-with-a-loop-at-the-end and Mythrin's discarded windshield wiper blade tools worked perfectly for me.
Cording will give you a curvier fit than rigid boning, but if you follow the links on Jen's site, you can see how versatile it is. People have used it for everything from contemporary bridal bodices (Anea! ;D) to Elizabethan effigy bodies. But it is THE PERFECT answer for the beautiful soft, lifted curves of the earlier Italian looks.
(*More about Simplicity 2621--I love this pattern so much, I made a whole dress (http://pic50.picturetrail.com/VOL417/1033223/23882966/398339163.jpg) out of it! That's a fully-boned [cable ties] bodice, with a skirt attached. The hem is stiffened with 2" cotton belting. I even made some tie-on sleeves (http://pic50.picturetrail.com/VOL417/1033223/23865558/398366742.jpg). My point is that if you got a good fit with it, it can be so much more than just a corset! Use gorgeous fabric, add trim and tabs and ruffles/peplums, and you can get a totally custom fancy bodice look. Um, which I now want to do, after writing that! LOL!!)
Gem--how is it you made your Simplicity bodice look so smooth on the outside if you corded it?? I'm going to be making the Margo Anderson plain front bodice with back side lacing and I want it to be smooth. I was going to wear my Simplicity corset underneath it for support, but should I bone it?? And if so, do I only bone the inside so it doesn't show? I bow to your wisdom*bow.* ;D
Waves to Wicked! :D
Two things:
1.) I didn't post pictures of my hemp-corded Simplicity corset. It's not Internet worthy, although it works just fine. LOL
2.) The purple dress is boned with cable ties, but I do have a hemp-corded gown (http://pic50.picturetrail.com/VOL417/1033223/23882966/398628645.jpg), and you can see that the bodice on that is nice and smooth, too. In contrast, check out the pink Simplicity corset (http://pic50.picturetrail.com/VOL417/1033223/4707019/375845406.jpg), where the boning channels are totally visible.
So what's the "secret?" Boned flatlining! Here's the innards of the purple dress:
(http://pic50.picturetrail.com/VOL417/1033223/4707019/394881513.jpg)
And the corded dress:
(http://pic50.picturetrail.com/VOL417/1033223/4707019/391421875.jpg)
...And here they are again, now with the fashion fabric applied:
(http://pic50.picturetrail.com/VOL417/1033223/4707019/395160825.jpg) (http://pic50.picturetrail.com/VOL417/1033223/23865558/398312681.jpg)
Voila! All those pesky boning channels vanish. ;D
The corded one is medium weight linen, and in this photo you can see some texture of the cording visible through the fashion fabric. To prevent that, you can add a layer of wool felt between the flatlining and the fashion fabric, but it's really not that much of an issue once it's worn.
The Margo bodice definitely calls for some strategic boning *and* it's meant to be worn over a corset. I made the purple kirtle so I'd have something that was as supportive as a corset but just one layer (of clothing; it's actually four layers of fabric--lining, 2 layers of canvas, and fashion fabric). The boning in the Margo bodice is to keep the garment smooth as you wear it. But even with a fully-boned bodice, I still had issues with the fashion fabric on my purple kirtle developing a honkin' ugly crease (http://pic50.picturetrail.com/VOL417/1033223/23882966/399576741.jpg) right across the front (sob!!). Milord (and everyone on Pattern Review) says that nobody notices except me, but still. IT'S NOT SUPPOSED TO DO THAT! And I still don't know why it did.
If you use cording, overall you'll end up with a curvier shape, but a *large* part of the curviness of my corded dress comes from the curved-front opening, which you can see really well in the picture above. You can still achieve a more proper Elizabethan silhouette using cording, although you'll want to experiment with where you place it and the angles you use, etc.
Did that help, or just confuse the issue more?
One more thing! I'd do this now, but I don't have time. Try doing a Google search for "corded Margo bodice" (or gown) and see if anything comes up. You never know--someone might have tried this already!
Quote from: Wickedvox on April 19, 2012, 05:48:56 PM
Gem--how is it you made your Simplicity bodice look so smooth on the outside if you corded it?? I'm going to be making the Margo Anderson plain front bodice with back side lacing and I want it to be smooth. I was going to wear my Simplicity corset underneath it for support, but should I bone it?? And if so, do I only bone the inside so it doesn't show? I bow to your wisdom*bow.* ;D
I just finished my first MA bodice-in fact, the same one you are making with the same side/back lacing option. :)
Like Gem said: The MA bodice is designed to have a lightly boned interlining-you will end up with three layers-to help it lie flat over the corset with no pulling, creasing or anything else that will ruin the smooth 'line' of the bodice.
If you have problems with the interlining boning or corset boning showing through (like I did) add a layer of felt or a heavy interfacing over that section and under the fashion fabric.
I learned a
lot making this bodice, good luck!
Gem and Rowan both: thank you thank you thank you! That's exactly the information I need. I re-read the instructions last night (I read them a hundred times before I start a new project) and thought, "Hmm, if I have to fit the tissue over a corset, then I probably have to *wear* it over a corset." Which is why I chose the side-back-lacing option b/c I don't want the back lacing from the corset to show (otherwise I'll have to put in a privacy panel for the back-lacing option). And Gem, no body ever notices our "mistakes" but us...I *love* that dress of yours. I wish I lived closer to all of you so I could see you at faire...*sigh* someday I'll get to travel to everyone *else's* faires. Thanks again ladies!