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I hate to admit this has become my new obsession... the Steampunk Crossover.

How many of you that are merchants have picked up a new crowd with the Steampunk Crossover and / or what does everybody think about the crossover of Steampunk followers into the Rennie world.

Not to hurt anyone's feelings;
but I don't go to a Renaissance Festival to see steampunk stuff. I go to have at least some semblance of a Renaissance experience. I don't go to sci-fi conventions because that type of costuming holds no interest for me.
I do believe that steampunk is more than welcome at sc-fi conventions.

Quote from: DonaCatalina on March 12, 2012, 11:38:33 AM
Not to hurt anyone's feelings;
but I don't go to a Renaissance Festival to see steampunk stuff. I go to have at least some semblance of a Renaissance experience. I don't go to sci-fi conventions because that type of costuming holds no interest for me.
I do believe that steampunk is more than welcome at sc-fi conventions.

And I think I agree with you but over the last few years I have seen more and more crossover.  At times it is like seeing the poor souls in the ninja outfits.

Personally, I do adore Steampunk and do not mind some crossing over being done at Ren faires.

That being said, I do agree that it had become over done as of late. I am truly glad for the merchants finding and extra niche to gain more business. I would only like to see the costuming more Renaissance styled instead of Victorian or Gothic Lolita. Being able to merge with many generes is one of the things I like about Steampunk. I would just like to see more actual merging when it comes to Renaissance. Part of the Faires, to me, is a certain amount of fantasy and non-fiction. Steampunk, as well as wizards and other magic casters that are welcomed at Faires, certainly fit into that.

It only truly irks me when I see completely non-Renaissance costumes. Star Trek and Ghostbusters, I'm looking at you! The costumes may be well done and yes some episodes of Star Trek feature Renaissance settings via holodeck. That's truly stretching things however.

Quote from: Amara Deegan on March 12, 2012, 11:51:11 AM
It only truly irks me when I see completely non-Renaissance costumes. Star Trek and Ghostbusters, I'm looking at you! The costumes may be well done and yes some episodes of Star Trek feature Renaissance settings via holodeck. That's truly stretching things however.

Too funny!

Quote from: Amara Deegan on March 12, 2012, 11:51:11 AM
Personally, I do adore Steampunk and do not mind some crossing over being done at Ren faires.

When does it move from "some crossing" to "too much crossing?" Like DC, I'm not crazy about the crossover. I'm going to a Renaissance Festival, not a Steampunk Festival.

Don't get me wrong, I actually find Steampunk quite interesting and fun. If there are that many people, though, who want to do festivals, they should hold their own.

There's enough diluting of the themes of some of the Renaissance and medieval faires already. Once you fully embrace Steampunk as part of the R/F experience, then comes some other period, then sci-fi, then there is no longer a Renaissance faire, but a big Halloween party.  Just my own opinion, which when presented with a couple dollars, might get you a cup of coffee...

Quote from: Amara Deegan on March 12, 2012, 11:51:11 AM
Personally, I do adore Steampunk and do not mind some crossing over being done at Ren faires.

That being said, I do agree that it had become over done as of late. I am truly glad for the merchants finding and extra niche to gain more business. I would only like to see the costuming more Renaissance styled instead of Victorian or Gothic Lolita. Being able to merge with many generes is one of the things I like about Steampunk. I would just like to see more actual merging when it comes to Renaissance. Part of the Faires, to me, is a certain amount of fantasy and nonfiction. Steampunk, as well as wizards and other magic casters that are welcomed at Faires, certainly fit into that.

  While I too don't mind the crossovers and the Cosplayers, (I want all the patrons to have a good time), my hubby is more along the 'historical re-enactors ' mindset.   He very much feels that renaissance fairs should be themed, that the theme should be respected. 
  If we are attending a fair for the first time, he will research it and we will dress accordingly. 

   While Steampunk may or may not be a good fit for some Ren faires,  it is only fair that the  merchants should make money too.
   Most leather merchants now feature some Steamy products for sale in their booths at the  renaissance faires, and they seem to sell well because there seems to be a shortage of garbing websites for the genre right now and they are exploiting this while they can.
   I really don't have a problem with it but...I would ask that they keep those in the back of the tent/booth when selling at a medieval themed event.  It tends to spoil the ambiance a bit to see racks of top hats with goggles and geared wristwatches displayed next to mugs and pouches.
   
     
   

I enjoy the Steampunk look, just not at a RENAISSANCE faire.  So no, I don't like all of the crossover.  I'd never tell anyone that they are "wrong" for doing it, but I just won't be doing it.

When I started going to faires I had absolutely no idea what personality I wanted to be. Pirate, noble, fairy (what are your opinions on fairies at a faire, if I may ask. They are so common now that they are sometimes synonymous with a renaissance faire, but...are they really Renaissance? I digress) Anyways, I finally found my niche in...steampunk! (if my profile picture didn't already give that away)

I absolutely love it. However, I completely understand if some people might not like it at a Renaissance faire. Trouble is, faire is like my second home, no matter which faire it is, and I want to wear my absolute favorite outfit, which is my steampunk one. Honestly, I've gotten almost every article of my steampunk outfit at faires. I and my friends have had some animosity shown to us at faires when we are in out steampunk garb (mostly from vendors, actually), but for the most part, people are very nice usually.

I do not get upset when I see people in Star Trek stuff, cosplayers, or anything, but that's probably because I know some might group me and steampunk right in that category with them. To answer the question asked, I personally love to see steampunk stuff at a faire, but believe it or not, I don't want it to take over either. I fell in love with a Renaissance Festival, and I want it to stay exactly like it is and not turn conpleatly into a Steampunk con, a Sci-fi con, an Anime con, etc. What made me fall in love with it however was how so many different groups could come together, from hard core history buffs to crazies in kilts, and be somewhat accepted. Like I said though, I totally understand why some may not be such a fan of a steampunk crossover, but other genres (fairies, vikings, Romans)  are usually accepted, though I'm sure at one point in time, they were new and somewhat unwanted as well.

I love all kinds of crossovers. If you want to come out, and have fun? Good for you. Welcome to the faire, you paid your money, wear whatever you like. My only problem is the people who come out specifically to act like douchebags. You know, the ones who toss on something stupid, like tin foil armor, and then decide they are in character and refuse to break it. Seriously, if your idea of fun is acting like real life internet trolls, you are welcome to go elsewhere.

While I like Steampunk, I am concerned as to how it may erode the image and feeling of the Renaissance Faire. Granted one currently sees 12th century Crusaders alongside of 17th century pirates at Faires set in the 15th-16th century but 19th-20th century seem a bit out of place and time. Of course, time is the key word as time travel is part of the Steampunk ethos. With the prediction of $4.00+ a gallon for gas this summer, Faires might reach out to new patrons to increase their audience base. Indeed, PARF has scheduled a Time Travelers' Weekend. From the PARF website- Time Travelers Weekend August 11 - 12, 2012... The soothsayers have foreseen a chronological convergence of time travelers, doctors, treckers of the stars, the steam-punkified, slayers and many more of the fictions of science as they gather upon the Shire of Mount Hope.
Then again, it could be argued that everyday 21st century patron costumes are truly out of place at Faire.

I don't know that the average patron could distinguish between the time periods being presented. I'm not sure I could. But if just becomes a costume parade for anything, any period, it then becomes a comic con and not a Renaissance or Medieval festival, and the owners would need to change the name, else be sued for false advertisement. Steampunk Weekends or Time Traveler Weekends are tolerable. I can attend faire on other weekends.

I can live with a few people who are missing the point of the Ren faire, but if it gets too pervasive, I will go elsewhere. I think a good number of these people do it simply to be disruptive.

I think some of the steampunk outfits are the most creative I've seen anywhere.  However, I don't think they belong at a Renaissance faire. To me, personally, I don't care if people wear Medieval, Pirate, fairy, Renaissance, even if it's the wrong time frame, because it still gives the impression of being back in time.

I also don't like the Roman garb, stormtroopers, and anything else that isn't remotely connected to the time period ranging from 1200 to 1700.  There is someone at Bristol who wears a red alligator head.  And 2 people that wear furry tiger heads.  Now really!  That is a costume party and looking to get attention, in no way does it add anything to the Renaissance theme.

We are personal friends with some of the musicians at faire, not just fans at faire.  They hate seeing Steampunks and other eras.  They say they play their hearts out to give the patrons a Renaissance experience, and they feel that the inappropriate costumes break the essence they are trying to provide.

For the past 3 years, Bristol has held a Steampunk weekend.  They even have their own parade around the grounds.  Even though we go mostly every weekend, I think we will skip that weekend this year. 

Having said all this, I would never say a word to anyone wearing Steampunk or anything else to faire.  It's just my opinion, and I would never hurt anyone's feelings by saying something to them.  I just personally don't like it at faire.

Firstly saying that I like the look of Steampunk. I have contributed to a few threads around here assisting folks with finding items of that nature. I am working on an outfit of my own (to be worn ONLY to sci fi conventions and events, you will never see me in it at a Ren Faire) and if the stars align and the moons eclipse I may be wearing it at DragonCon this year.  ;D

( Note, this is my opinion only and my piece of eight on the matter. Which may or may not get you a cup of coffee, depending on the vintage of said piece of eight )

When it was a small interest I had no problem with it. But now that it is growing, I wonder how far it is going to go and how many lines it will cross. And to me it is not a genre unto itself, it is the adaptation of others. I have seen Elizabethan steampunk, Victorian steampunk, Pirate steampunk (even a Jack Sparrow steampunk statue ) the latest 3 musketeers movie was steampunk, star wars steampunk and the list goes on and on. To me, it is still altering other genres and not an original premise.

But in the wearing and appropriateness, I also say this:

As per delireous question about Faeries at Faire (which includes all other manner of mythical characters )
While not perhaps TANGIBLE characters, in the time periods which Ren Faires encompass, people did indeed believe in all sorts of mythical and magical creatures, Faeries, Dragons, Gnomes, Witches and things which go bump in the night, etc etc etc. So personally, I can "see" those there. Matter of fact, Vampires were first reported as far back as Mesopotamian times, just that that term was not used till much later ) Go, beloved Transylvanian Court!  ;D

Like Lady Renee said in the time range from 1200 to 1700:

Pirates were active in 1650, before the 1700's. I see those being around.
Vikings were around close to that time (notable up to 1100 and memories I am sure run long after they DID attack places in Britain ) I can see those being around.
Barbarians, Celts, etc I can also see.
Crusaders were actually noted in the 11th century with the creation of the Knights Templars, so I see that.
Star Trek IS a stretch but as they did time travel, I can stretch it. Although I note personally when entering primitive cultures, they did their best to garb and act like the culture they were entering most times.
Doctor Who....another stretch, but workable.



What I do not see:
Roman....centuries before the timeline.
Egyptian...same thing.
Star Wars....nuff said.

I'm sure I have missed several classes in both categories, those were just spur of the moment.

But I do question the motives of some classes at a Ren Faire. I would think Sci Fi conventions would be a Nirvana, encompassing so widely varied of time traveling, alternate universes, parallel dimensions, assorted galaxies and workable scenarios, classes and races.
( I also look at financials however and know sci fi conventions are HELLA expensive compared to a Faire budget for attendance )
Or like Merlin said, are some just doing it to annoy? One example I cannot find viable reason for is Stormtroopers in Kilts. That phrase was originally coined to show ultimate wrongness and many have taken to displaying it openly in garb. Is it a joke or simply rubbing it in faces?

A question for steampunk ( or star wars, roman, egyptian, etc )

Would you wear it to:
An SCA event
An old west gunfighter gathering
A civil War recreation
A colonial display
A HA Pirate event
Or anything like that? Probably not, as those kinds usually have some rules and guidelines in place. Ren Faires are one of the few who do not place restrictions on such things.
Is it ok to take advantage of lax guidelines and cheaper venue to do your thing your way. And not picking at any one group for this, either, there are far worse ones (Ravers camping for the cheap and (USED to be)easy to get away with blasting techno and lights BS at a ren faire of all places, anyone? )
Famous saying "Just because you can, doesn't mean you should."
What makes it ok to enter one venue that is loosely acceptable to this when others are great with it but still many more are not at all.

But I digress. Would I ever say anything or act differently to anyone wearing ANY sort of non period garb at a Renaissance Faire in order to hurt feelings, look down upon or disdain them in any way? Certainly not. (however if you come up to me and attempt to playact your particular personae all bets are off. You will get a period reaction to such strange goings on including calling for the guards and burning at the stake, etc will be discussed for witchery.  ;) ) Usually I do not acknowledge them at all unless they look wave or speak, then I of course greet them with a return nod, etc same as anyone else, a very few have asked for pics together which I of course did as well. I will never get more serious about it than simply put off, no annoyance, anger, rage, etc over it, either.

One thing that does disturb me more than a little is learning on this thread itself of several Faires now promoting (and therefore encouraging ) time travel weekends, etc.
That will certainly open the door to invitations all around. And like Merlin said....if it become any more than the casual attendance of a few and become pervasive ( or invasive above the Ren Theme itself ) then I too will take myself elsewhere. Which after 3 decades of joyful attendance, will be certainly more than a sad thing indeed.

Again, just my piece of eight. No better than anyone else's. :)

Being in Dallas with several science fiction anime conventions throught the year I really don't understand why people want come to faire in Steampunk.  I never say anything I normally just ignore them just as I ignore the star wars, star trek and Doctor who people I love all those programs but really with at least 5 science fiction cons during the year in the area there is no reason to invade faire.   

As for mixing periods I guess growning up with 1950's period movies I don't have a problem after all movies like Knights of the Round Table, Ivanhoe, Robin Hood etc all had knights wearing armour more correct for  Renaissance sport jousting than the period the movie was set in. 

   If a normally Elizabethan themed Renaissance faire has a Steampunk themed weekend, I'm cool with that.  
  But should the festival still be called a 'renaissance faire' on those dates?  

  The problem with calling it by the regular faire name would be that most of the one day or weekend patrons don't really bother to find out what the 'theme' is on any particular weekend.   They just want to pack up the kids and head to the renaissance faire to see princesses, knights and jousting and have a turkey leg or two.   If I showed up with my family expecting to see the middle ages and find myself in the middle of the 19th century, I think I would be disappointed to say the least, especially of I hauled a bunch of my family out there expecting the same show I have always seen in the past.  

  Personally, I think people can and wear what they want to, to what ever event they want.  I recognize that some people want to dress up as their favorite characters and they don't particularly care whether or not the event is appropriate to the costume; so we will continue to see Darth Vader and ninjas walking around.  

 I just know that I wouldn't show up at the Dickens' Christmas at the Old Market weekend dressed as an Elizabethan Noble.  I respect the fact that the regular cast (some of whom are also rennies) are trying to portray the 19th century, and my garb would detract from the overall ambiance.
  That said, I will have to throw my vote behind the folks who say that when non renaissance garb becomes a featured part of faire, it is no longer a Renaissance Faire but a cosplay convention.



small edit for grammer...gah I'm tired
 

 

I had a discussion at my steampunk club about this last night. A big 'problem' with steampunk is that everyone has their own definition. Some people completely base it off of Victorian culture and costume, and stick strictly to that. They don't want the gadgets or goggles, and that's totally fine. Still others set steampunk in the future, in a sort of post-apocalyptic setting. However, a big percentage deal with time travel as a key element, hence the merger of past and future ideas. If some can accept Star Trek time traveling, would steampunk not be acceptable too? (If you don't like trekkies at a faire, this might not apply to you)

Why is this acceptable (I assume, I haven't heard anything against it) Does this guy make you feel like you're in the Renaissance era?
(http://www.doesntsuck.com/images/random/centaur2.jpg)

or this (once again, no one is upset about fairies)
(http://0.tqn.com/d/phoenix/1/0/G/X/RenFest2006Feast10.jpg)

but not this (which is labeled as a steampunk outfit by the maker, Damsel in this Dress)
(http://damseldress.com/uploads/images/big/1288325340_7.jpg)

Nothing against any of these people, their costumes are all lovely, but wouldn't they all be better suited at a fantasy convention?

If you can accept Vikings, Captain Teague, who were admittedly 100 years too early, could steampunk, with roots arguably in the Victorian era, which started in 1837, not squeeze into Renfest too? Texas Renaissance Festival has a Roman weekend and a Barbarian weekend (which a lot of people translate to vikings) but these do fall outside the 1200-1700 time period we have established in this thread as acceptable periods to draw from.

I would absolutely love to attend a steampunk convention and gladly wear my outfit there. Trouble is, Kansas is not the best place for steampunks (who knew!). I have to drive 2 hours to the nearest renfest as it is, so for the time being, I take what I can get. While I can only speak for myself and my friends, we mean absolutely no disrespect to those who try hard to be period. Steampunk is just 1 of many outfits and personas I have and wear to faire. While I definitely understand why some people might not care for it at faires, it doesn't seem to be a terribly huge stretch of the imagination as to why people would wear steampunk things to a renaissance festival.

I treat all those characters like they are mundanes.  That way I dont have to waste my energy worrying about it.

Centaur.....as far as I know there is only the one. And again a mythical beast that many folk believed in drew illustrations of and told stories about during those times. Same as I already said, Fairies, gnomes, goblins, trolls, vampires,dragons, werewolves,witches etc etc etc. If there were 20 of them at any particular gathering then I would likely be put off by it, but still would never say anything to them in any form or deed. Remember they did "exist" if nothing else in the minds of the people during said time period.

And also like I said, naming cultures was just a spur of the moment thing. And with approximate dates, as I am certain Vikings did not just switch OFF at the turn of the century, more likely there were fringe bands that still raided well after the new century started. There are even a few Native American stories of them appearing in North America years after their decline. Again, they existed tangibly and again were drawn, discussed and stories told.

I state moreover that to me personally this is only a discussion and a no win scenario, nor a debate. And one I hope now is and will always be a friendly discussion. And I love discussions, if we were all of like minds on anything it would certainly get boring fast. :)

Personally I view the Roman weekends the same as time traveler weekends as out of place. And Rowan also brings up a valid point of it being incredibly confusing if they do not make it crystal clear when they go off track on themed weekends, granted that most mundanes never bother to check a schedule. If I was to bundle up the family as a regular customer for a historical learning experience of "lets all go to the RENAISSANCE faire," got there and it was Roman, Steampunk, Time Traveler, even Pirate....discouraged, disillusioned and angry would not even come close to how I felt.

But the way I feel about it is....Steampunk did not exist in those time periods. Not in the most fevered of imaginations. Barring some drawings from DaVinci, perhaps. Yes there were a few small gadgets but nothing popular or well used. A steam machine was actually designed in the first century, but nothing came of it. The most noted notions were not until the very late 1800's and Wiki claims the term came later still.

QuoteOrigin of the term

Although many works now considered seminal to the genre were published in the 1960s and 1970s, the term steampunk originated in the late 1980s as a tongue in cheek variant of cyberpunk. It seems to have been coined by science fiction author K. W. Jeter, who was trying to find a general term for works by Tim Powers (The Anubis Gates, 1983); James Blaylock ( Homunculus, 1986); and himself (Morlock Night, 1979, and Infernal Devices, 1987)—all of which took place in a 19th-century (usually Victorian) setting and imitated conventions of such actual Victorian speculative fiction as H. G. Wells' The Time Machine. In a letter to science fiction magazine Locus, printed in the April 1987 issue, Jeter wrote:
Dear Locus,

Enclosed is a copy of my 1979 novel Morlock Night; I'd appreciate your being so good as to route it Faren Miller, as it's a prime piece of evidence in the great debate as to who in "the Powers/Blaylock/Jeter fantasy triumvirate" was writing in the "gonzo-historical manner" first. Though of course, I did find her review in the March Locus to be quite flattering.
Personally, I think Victorian fantasies are going to be the next big thing, as long as we can come up with a fitting collective term for Powers, Blaylock and myself. Something based on the appropriate technology of the era; like "steampunks", perhaps...
—K.W. Jeter

All a moot point however like I said. Wear what you wish by all means. I wont stop anyone. I just personally feel it out of place, when Sci Fi gatherings have a reasonable explanation for anything at all that happens and of course, anything goes and I am sure that it is welcomed with open arms. If I see one Centaur or a fairy or a troll or a dragon and a child asks about that, I can easily explain they are portraying a mythical creature thought to exist in Ren Times. I can't imagine explaining steampunk to an 8 year old without having to drag utter reality into it while immersed in as complete of a fantasy setting as possible. And a handful of the few walking around are easily dismissed with an open mind. However, come the day I walk into a Ren Faire and see 50 out of place whatever cultures without it being a themed weekend and bad on me for not checking, well....I won't be returning to that particular faire.

But a question back....
Suppose you are attending a full blown Steampunk Faire. All steampunk booths, cast, shows, music, foods, etc etc etc...
And you see some Romans, Stormtroopers, Pirates, Ghostbusters, Trolls, Dragons,Fairies and Centaurs scattered all about. How would that make you feel?
Or would you quickly rationalize it being you have the steampunk notions of Sci Fi and its hundreds of possibilities?

Ren Faires do not get that luxury. ;)


But anyyyyway. Any of Ya see me at Any Faire come say hi. I do not truly care what you are wearing, you will get a hug, some good conversation and most likely an ale from me. ;D my feelings do not mean spit in the cosmic order of things and no one will care in a hundred years anyway. :P

A little off topic but Japanese have been doing stories about steam powered robots and such since the mid 1980's and Vernes super submarine Nautilus was not only steam powered but the steam came from burning coal, I beleive the Albatross was also steam powered.  So while the term Steampunk is fairly new the general ideas for it have been around a long time.

I agree. Because as I said

QuoteThe most noted notions were not until the late 1800's

Vernes novel was published in 1870. Also A Journey to the Center of the Earth (1864), and Around the World in Eighty Days (1873). :)

Pretty sure I've seen this thread before... a couple of times.  ::)  :D

Quote from: angusmacinnes on March 15, 2012, 05:31:41 PM
I treat all those characters like they are mundanes.  That way I dont have to waste my energy worrying about it.

I do like how you think.

Me too, Doña.  That Angus is one laid-back Scotsman.

I don't love it, but I don't hate it, either. I do agree with what some have said, that if Steampunks became an excessive presence it would be disappointing to me. As it stands now, though, I've personally never spotted more than 3-5 at one faire, so as long as the presence is negligible I don't mind in the least.

And honestly, I think I'd rather see a Steampunk costume than plain clothes (...says the mundane who has no garb of any kind).

I've never been a steampunk fan.  Although I can appreciate the thought and dedication that goes into an SP costume, I'm not particularly fond of costumes where a wearer just 'throws some gears' on an outfit and expects everyone to regard it as steampunk.  It was my understanding that the purpose of the design was that everything had a function.  Hot-glueing a brass gear to a top hat does not make you steampunk.

Having said that, I don't necessarily mind those folks at faire.  Unless I find their outfit pleasing to the eye (which means that thought and creativity were invested in the costume, get your minds out of the gutters), I tend to ignore them, as I would Imperial stormtroopers, Hogwarts residents, Batmen (or Jokers), Budweiser carton knights, and other hosts that, in MY mind, do not add to my experience at Festival.  I don't make any snide comments, I just pretend I don't see them, and go out of my way not to interact with them.  Lesson here: don't feed the trolls.  I always hope at some point in their future, they'll look back at pics of themselves, and go, "What the hell was I thinking, showing up to a Renaissance Festival as Master Chief?"

After all, it's a Renaissance Festival, not Halloween, unless it happens to fall on that particular weekend.  When it does, I concede to the 'anything goes' belief.

As most renaissance festivals go, many patrons (myself included, to a degree) aren't historically accurate as they don't understand the differences between Medieval/Renaissance/Elizabethan/Victorian time frames, hence the variety of period costumes.  I assume Steakpunk would fall in the Victorian era, and that's why we see more and more of that genre attending every year.

Well, I grok that this is a unpopular opinion with some folks here, but...

I like SP, at least I did when it was a sci-fi sub genre in the 80s. Now that it's a costuming fad I'm getting a little worn out on it. I got tired of seeing it at sci-fi cons a few years ago, when all the goth kids were starting to recycle their old vampire outfits with goggles, gears and nerf guns. Or worse folks doing the same to their renfaire getups.
As somebody who is far from a HA purist, I find seeing clone troopers, Doctor Who, Starfleet and SG1 away teams, etc. at faire pretty funny, but I don't feel the same about the SP crew. I guess I think there is enough sci-fi at faire already.

I fall somewhere close to batninja, it's not that I pretend not to see them, but unless their outfit is glaringly bad, my subconscious sees them pretty much as shrubbery.
People I know very well will confirm that if they come out in mundanes, it will take them 3-4 tries to get my attention. I just don't see the mundanes or the Halloween costumes.

Quote from: Captain Cornelius Howard Duckman on March 15, 2012, 04:38:10 AM
You know, the ones who toss on something stupid, like tin foil armor, and then decide they are in character and refuse to break it.

The people in the tin foil armor are a personal pet peeve of mine.

I'm biased on this subject, but when it comes to Faeries....

"Remember they did "exist" if nothing else in the minds of the people during said time period."

This quote from a previous poster sums it up for me ;)

E

Is someone inferring that faeries don't exist?!? If faeries don't exist, then wizards don't exist, and since I think, I am, which means faeries exist.  Got it? GOOD!

Just a thought on the whole fae/wizards question ...

Having spent some time studying, and among, animistic people today, I can assure you that what we would see as things of myth and legend are absolutely positively real to them. They'll even tell you they've seen things that you know don't exist, and they're not lying. They really believe it.

I can only think that in the Medieval and Renaissance eras, such things as faeries and wizards, witches and centaurs, dragons and mermaids were unquestionably real to people. Not that people would have strolled right past one in the lanes, but they certainly would not be considered fantasy at the time. I do not doubt that there were people who would testify -- and believe -- they had actually seen such things.

That is why, to me, the question of fae and wizards and other people and creatures that are present in period literature is a different question of steampunk.

I totally agree with you Iain. I know that 'unofficially' Scarby's justification for fae folk is that many people of the time fervently believed in such.
Even for myself, my indoctrination by my Irish grandmother was such that when an unusual patch of shamrocks appeared at the base of one of the oaks, I cautioned my husband against mowing it.

I promise you... I exist...   To prove it, if I don't shower.... "I stink, therefore I am."

Yeah, I'm pretty sure I exist also....

Although...If I don't exist, does that mean I don't have to pay taxes?  ;D

I have to laugh when someone asks "do you believe in Faeries?"  Do I believe?!?  Hell, I KNOW Faeries!!!  ::)  



And a wizard or two, as well...  ;)

Quote from: JCadden on April 04, 2012, 10:04:07 AM

Quote from: Captain Cornelius Howard Duckman on March 15, 2012, 04:38:10 AM
You know, the ones who toss on something stupid, like tin foil armor, and then decide they are in character and refuse to break it.

The people in the tin foil armor are a personal pet peeve of mine.

For me, when I see this I smile and think "at least they are trying to get into it"

This is an extremely expensive hobby, a lot of folks wanna come out and have fun, for me it's not as much fun unless I try to dress up. I don't have period clothes, heck some of y'all might think I'm WAY off...but, I'm TRYING!!

Oh, and I love SP, I go to tea parties and conventions as much as possible. I agree it's not a good fit at faire, though some of my garb will cross over the two hobbies. It's a money issue...so I'll wear my faire skirt that I sewed for $6.00 with my SP outfit. Guess what, not one SP person will ignore my existence because I don't match.      I know that sounded snarky, and I really am not trying to be rude..but the thought that I'd be ignored because I can't spend $100+ on an outfit I'll wear 2 maybe 3 times in a year just hurts.

:-\

A Tammy, I'm sorry if you thought my post was directed at you or the amount you spend on garb. I don't purposely ignore anyone.
I am thrilled by whatever Renaissance-ish effort people make in their garb, regardless of how much it cost. I can't tell you how much stuff I have picked up at thrift stores for $2.37 for garb. No one is faulting you or intended to hurt you because you are tight on funds, leat of all me. Aren't we all tight on funds to a degree?
But I am so focused on the clothing of pre-1600 that my subconscious tunes out sci-fi and mundane type clothing.

Quote from: Rani Zemirah on April 05, 2012, 11:03:33 AM
I have to laugh when someone asks "do you believe in Faeries?"  Do I believe?!?  Hell, I KNOW Faeries!!!  ::)  



And a wizard or two, as well...  ;)

YAY!!!!

My reply wasnt focused towards you DonaCatalina. You've always seemed like a very nice person here on the boards. It was meant as an 'in general'.
;)

I can personally attest, Tammy, that the Doña is really that nice. We'll be visiting the Doña and her Don by this time in the morning!

So, I have a thought to toss into this discussion, if you don't mind.

What do you think of goths showing up at faire?  Do you feel that they ruin the atmosphere?  To them, the "costumes" are what they wear every day.  That *is* their mundanes.

To some people, steampunk is the same.  That's actually what they wear, every day.  If you're ok with the goths, why does the steampunk bother you?

...

My thoughts on the matter are (and, I can see I'm in the minority here), wear what makes you happy.  I really enjoy costuming.  A well made costume is cool.  A not as well made, but clearly effort put into, costume is great, too.  Do I like it better if you're going with the spirit of the event you're attending?  Absolutely!  That makes it more fun for everyone.  A couple of out-of-place outfits aren't going to ruin it any more than all the mundanes are. 

I haven't seen any stormtroopers or things like that at my faire, but it wouldn't bug me.  I'd perhaps think they were a bit silly (I think the idea of a stormtrooper in a kilt is awesome, though), but it wouldn't bug me.  Heck, at the faire I go to now, you'd be one of the more costumed people!

The only thing that bugs me is when people aren't wearing *enough* costume.  You do, in fact, need to wear something underneath the chainmail bikini (have seen, needed eyebleach!).  Guys, invest in a dance belt or a cod piece if you're going to wear tights w/o pants over them.  Or at least some tighty-whities.  Please. (have also seen, there was NOTHING left to the imagination! :o )

Quote from: Merlin the Elder on April 06, 2012, 09:54:19 AM
I can personally attest, Tammy, that the Doña is really that nice. We'll be visiting the Doña and her Don by this time in the morning!

Rub it in. :P

Yall have some fun and dont break im, eze brittle and all. 8)

Non-renaissance period clothing does not bother me at all.  I attend Sherwood, TRF and Scarby in Texas.  All 3 require their workers to garb period appropriate, but customers come as they want.

Some people I know have encountered snarkies and self-styled garb police at TRF or Scarby in the past, but in each case the put-down came from someone in mundanes or dressed in a brown or black toned, cotton, machine-loomed, machine-sewn, wannabee monk thingee.   The hardest thing to do is not burst out laughing. 

It takes something really out of the ordinary to catch someone's eye at the large faires, like the "blue dice heads" at TRF last year.  After the initial "nerd alert" we all were amazed at how they were created and worn.

Of course, I did see Adam and Eve once at a faire, with strategically placed leaves – hopefully they were wearing thongs - but I was more fascinated by the paleness of their skin and wondering how much sun screen they were wearing and if it would last all day in the Texas sun.  As for little kids seeing too much – makes for good teaching chance about sun, bugs, and poison ivy.   8)

I love seeing interesting outfits at faire, different people make the world go round! People are incredibly creative, especially when they believe they're going to a place where they won't be judged for wearing whatever they want. Most people attempt to match the renaissance time period, but a few don't. I'd never get upset, look down on them, or have any animosity towards those people, and I'd certainly never deliberately ignore someone just because their clothing choice.

When I go in my steampunk garb to a faire, I've always felt included and welcomed. There are only a handful of times when someone has said anything rude or snarky (once in my fairy outfit, once in my pirate garb, and once in my steampunk one) but other than that, people have seemed very receptive and nice. In my experience, just about everyone at faire is welcoming, no matter what someone is wearing, and that's a big part of what I love about faire so much! There will always be someone out there who has a problem with something you have on, sadly, no matter what you're wearing, so just try to focus on the positive reactions you get, rather than the negative ones :)

Quote from: Delireus on April 09, 2012, 12:29:34 PM
When I go in my steampunk garb to a faire, I've always felt included and welcomed. There are only a handful of times when someone has said anything rude or snarky (once in my fairy outfit, once in my pirate garb, and once in my steampunk one) but other than that, people have seemed very receptive and nice. In my experience, just about everyone at faire is welcoming, no matter what someone is wearing, and that's a big part of what I love about faire so much! There will always be someone out there who has a problem with something you have on, sadly, no matter what you're wearing, so just try to focus on the positive reactions you get, rather than the negative ones :)

I don't like to snark at anyone, since I can vouch from personal experience that it makes you feel like poop for the rest of the day.  Anybody who has had a run in with the 'period police' (who also seem to have it out for the fae and pirates too) can vouch for that, but thankfully, it doesn't seem to happen at faire as often as it used to. If you make an honest effort at trying to participate, you should be left in peace to enjoy the event.   
    That said, I guess the only 'costumes' I really object to involve those that leave very little to the imagination.  I'm reasonably sure that faire is considered a family venue, and as such there is, and should be, a line drawn between garb/costume and blatant exhibitionism. 
     I generally don't care what people, (men or women), wear to faire as long as it looks like I won't have to disinfect the spot they just sat on before I sit there.  If they are clad in nothing but a sword, a leather or chain maile g-string, and a cup, a cape does not make up for the fact that the man is otherwise practically naked.  As for the ladies; Same goes for the modified mud flap outfit w/thong along with the chain maile bra sans lining.   'I'm dressed like a barbarian'  is like saying they are wearing the French Maid outfit from the adult toy store to clean the house in.
    People usually don't take kids to motorcycle rallies like Sturgis (where you can see many of the same outfits) for the same reasons.  Faire is not an adults only venue, or amateur night at the strip club.       
   I already know we have lost customers due to the skin factor, and with the drive toward 'family oriented' entertainment nowadays, the Faires will have decide what is acceptable and what is not, and to post signs like Disneyland used to do-'We reserve the right to exclude inappropriately dressed patrons'.  (Nice way to say no bikini tops or daisy dukes, shirts and shoes required).
   

Believe it or not, Rowen, I've seen more `dane-wear that was totally inappropriate at our faire than garb-wear.  I'm not one who has a problem with a lot of skin showing. Some people can make it work, and some can't. But who is going to decide?  There was one barbarian couple that used to frequent Scarby who were really fabulously attired, but had an abundant amount of skin showing. There was absolutely nothing offensive in their dress. Quite tastefully done.

I saw one mundane this weekend that made me want to wash my eyes out with acid. If I'd have been with the fashion police, I would have had to shoot-to-kill. Three-quarters of her overly-abundant bum was hanging out of her short-shorts.

     But Merlin, the people of Walmart have to go someplace to have fun!
   

Quote from: Rowen MacD on April 09, 2012, 10:18:15 PM
     But Merlin, the people of Walmart have to go someplace to have fun!
   

Let the buggers go to WalMart where they belong...  :P

Something I used to remind people is that many of the Goth kids who came to fair were not attending in "costumes", they were wearing their "normal" clothes (or at least their after-school going to the mall to hang with friends clothes).

One of the interesting things is that there is a small number of steampunk people who are treating it more of a lifestyle than just cosplay, and are wearing at least "neo-Victorian" outfits on a day-to-day basis. In a smaller way steampunk seems to have become a small subculture and not just "dress-up" for a few people. Here's a couple threads from the Brass Goggles forum.

What the Heck is a Steampunk life style ?
http://brassgoggles.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,16053.0.html

"How many of us dress "Neo-Victorian/SP" all the time?"
http://brassgoggles.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,20117.0.html

Some have even talked about living in steampunk communities the way some rennies have kicked around the idea Rennie artist communities (I think this usually comes up whenever someone talks about a year-'round faire) http://brassgoggles.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,7476.0.html

Quote from: Merlin the Elder on April 09, 2012, 05:04:32 PM
Believe it or not, Rowen, I've seen more `dane-wear that was totally inappropriate at our faire than garb-wear.  I'm not one who has a problem with a lot of skin showing. Some people can make it work, and some can't. But who is going to decide?  There was one barbarian couple that used to frequent Scarby who were really fabulously attired, but had an abundant amount of skin showing. There was absolutely nothing offensive in their dress. Quite tastefully done.

I saw one mundane this weekend that made me want to wash my eyes out with acid. If I'd have been with the fashion police, I would have had to shoot-to-kill. Three-quarters of her overly-abundant bum was hanging out of her short-shorts.

My sister saw that, or something very similar, and had to describe it to me at length. For once my mundane blindness came in handy. I think it was the hair that freaked her out the most.

At MNRF a few years back
(http://mrffriends.tripod.com/images/picture/unusual_patron2.jpg)

 Looks like she ran through a brier patch in a black bodystocking.   
  So this qualifies as a costume, and not exhibitionism?
     Maybe I'm getting too old to tell the difference *sigh*

From the looksees going on behind her, I would be guessing the reverse is even more, uh, interesting than the front.

Quote from: groomporter on April 10, 2012, 09:17:01 AM
At MNRF a few years back
(http://mrffriends.tripod.com/images/picture/unusual_patron2.jpg)

Compared the Adam and Eve spotted last year, this ren-goer is heavily overdressed, even without the hat.

She reminds me of the picture I just saw of a hand that went through a paper shredder...

Quote from: DonaCatalina on April 10, 2012, 08:41:44 AM

Quote from: Merlin the Elder on April 09, 2012, 05:04:32 PM
Believe it or not, Rowen, I've seen more `dane-wear that was totally inappropriate at our faire than garb-wear.  I'm not one who has a problem with a lot of skin showing. Some people can make it work, and some can't. But who is going to decide?  There was one barbarian couple that used to frequent Scarby who were really fabulously attired, but had an abundant amount of skin showing. There was absolutely nothing offensive in their dress. Quite tastefully done.

I saw one mundane this weekend that made me want to wash my eyes out with acid. If I'd have been with the fashion police, I would have had to shoot-to-kill. Three-quarters of her overly-abundant bum was hanging out of her short-shorts.

My sister saw that, or something very similar, and had to describe it to me at length. For once my mundane blindness came in handy. I think it was the hair that freaked her out the most.

Hair?!? What hair?? The rest blinded me (in the bad way) to look any further...

Quote from: groomporter on April 10, 2012, 09:17:01 AM
At MNRF a few years back
(http://mrffriends.tripod.com/images/picture/unusual_patron2.jpg)

From a "skin" standpoint, it doesn't bother me, but it surely doesn't fit a Renaissance faire.  It would work well at the local "gentlemen's" club.

I see this alot at biker rallies. Don't fit the renaissance era, but it covers more then a bikini.

   This and the chain maile micro kini +thong. 
   I saw more 'barbarian princesses' at Sturgis in '99 and '00 (the last two years I was there), than I have seen at all the Renaissance faires since.
  Curiously enough, I saw no bikinis there, though there was a lot of upper body 'paint 'n Pasties'   No pics of which are SFW.  ;D
   

Judging from the tricorn and boots... I think she might believe this is a "pirate" look...?  

Quote from: Rani Zemirah on April 10, 2012, 07:19:57 PM
Judging from the tricorn and boots... I think she might believe this is a "pirate" look...?  

Well obviously she lost the sword fight...

Let me preface this to say that I have no problem at all with people who wish to dress up. But, that being said...

Different gatherings have different themes. With most gatherings, there are going to be mundanes, and that is much of what it's all being put on for.  So, would you go to a snow-ski resort in a bikini or speedo? Would you go to a horror convention dressed as an angel? Would you go to a formal dinner in cut-offs?  Do you want space and technology booths at your local Ren faire?

It's more about whether or not it fits in, rather than what it is. How well does Star Wars fit in with the steampunk crowd?  Would Biblical characters be welcome? Does this not make any sense?  I worry enough about the Merlin character at faires, but at least at the faires I attend, Merlin was part of the mythology of the era.

This issue seems to be nearly as divisive as religion or politics, despite the fact that it's more clear-cut.  There needs to be a connection to the period, however slight. I don't find electronica conducive to a good faire experience, yet the bird-man continues to spread throughout the faire circuit, and is quite popular. Maybe it is only me that still likes a more Renaissance feel. I go to faire to get away from the mundane world, not immerse myself in it.

It reminds me sometimes of a local Sci/fi/fantasy convention where some people seemed to interpret the fantasy aspect to include sexual fantasy and so we started seeing people in latex or BDSM gear during the day instead of just later when most of the kids would be in bed or not limited to the "adults only" floor of the hotel.

Quote from: groomporter on April 10, 2012, 11:35:10 PM
It reminds me sometimes of a local Sci/fi/fantasy convention where some people seemed to interpret the fantasy aspect to include sexual fantasy and so we started seeing people in latex or BDSM gear during the day instead of just later when most of the kids would be in bed or not limited to the "adults only" floor of the hotel.

I think you have it there, Groomporter......These folks have always been out there, and have always wanted to act out their fantasies.  
  It's starting to look like some are 'testing the waters' to see just how far they can take this before someone points out that they have gone too far.  It's gonna be an interesting aspect to follow.    
   We do see these folks at the Pirate fests, but they haven't been showing up at the Ren faires around here.
   Yet.
 
 

Well, at least with Steampunk folks are mostly covered...  ;)  :D

Quote from: Rani Zemirah on April 11, 2012, 04:04:36 PM
Well, at least with Steampunk folks are mostly covered...  ;)  :D

True! ^_^.  They are the anti-barbarians!   

    You know, I was thinking that if a faire is big enough, why not have an encampment set aside for the Steamers?  It would take a bit of brainstorming to get it to make sense, and they might need to procure a 'time machine'  as the centerpiece, but what the hey?   Just a thought....
    Disney has Tomorrowland, Fantasyland, Frountierland, etc.
    Perhaps one day there will be an outdoor  Steampunk Fair, maybe in a setting like the 1894 international exposition and not just conventions...

At KCRF space is at a premium.  Not to shoot down your excellent idea, Rowen MacD, but KCRFdoesn't even have a member's garden (or Friends of the Faire) just because whenever space opens up, it is immediately used for something.  Do Steampunkers have a board like this one here?  If so, couldn't they organize a day to "time travel" to a Renaissance period and visit?

Merlin, loved your post!

We do occasionally do that... although when we announce here, publicly, that we're planning an excursion (invasion) to one Faire or another there is always a thread like this one that pops up complaining about "those ridiculous Steampunk people", and how annoying we are to "REAL Rennies"...  :P

Quote from: Rani Zemirah on April 11, 2012, 11:11:29 PM
We do occasionally do that... although when we announce here, publicly, that we're planning an excursion (invasion) to one Faire or another there is always a thread like this one that pops up complaining about "those ridiculous Steampunk people", and how annoying we are to "REAL Rennies"...  :P

True story, sadly. 

Quote from: Rani Zemirah on April 11, 2012, 11:11:29 PM
We do occasionally do that... although when we announce here, publicly, that we're planning an excursion (invasion) to one Faire or another there is always a thread like this one that pops up complaining about "those ridiculous Steampunk people", and how annoying we are to "REAL Rennies"...  :P

The Kentucky Highland Renaissance Festival has a weekend just for the Steampunk groups to invade. I personally love how much work goes into some of their outfits. I know a couple of people who have made all the leather work they wear themselves along with all the detail tool work to get the designs raised in the leather. A lot of the steampunk community puts in as much work if not more in their outfits and I can't see dismissing them just because they don't fit the theme.

I am a vendor and as long as the outfit is nice I truly see nothing wrong with it, heck even if it is not so great you have to give the people for at least trying.  I have personally been snarked by people in the SCA telling me how my whole outfit was incorrect for the faire. I wear a lot of fairy and gypsy style clothing and the one lady got made at me for asking if she personally weave and dyed the material she was wearing or did she buy something from the store.

Arthur Rowan posted a reply to the "Steampunk at Faire" thread I started on the PaRenFaire dot Netters Forum. Arthur has worked as a performer/director at the PaRenFaire for 4 years and is currently a musician/performer with the musical duo "Rowan and the Rose". He mentions that he and Kelly Morris (Queen Elizabeth at PARF 2008-2009) will be performing at the NJ and the PA Faire this year. Below find Arthur's post, used with his permission. I find it great insight from the performer's point of view...

From a former performer standpoint, I LOVED playing with people in out of period costumes. I remember the day a fully-decked Imperial Stormtrooper showed up at opening gate, and within fifteen minutes at least three of us had demanded 'TK-421, wherefore are thou not upon thy post?'

On numerous occasions I've engaged Star Trek Away teams with a 'Good my lords in strange garb, prithee, approach...' then once they were near I'd lower my voice, drop all accent and Elizabethan character entirely, and demand 'What the hell are you doing breaking the Prime Directive by not blending in with this pre-warp culture?! I have been undercover on this research assignment for FOUR YEARS, and so help me God if you blow this assignment for me there will be HELL to pay back at Star Fleet command.'

Klingons are also a favorite... I welcome them openly and publicly as, clearly, Ambassadors from the Dutch, and then I tell the crowd how I'm about to engage them in their native Dutch tongue. Then I would, in hopefully decent Klingon, tell them 'Your father is a coward who died without honor.' One time, the Klingon in question even understood me, and hilarity ensued as he showed his fury, causing me to grovel before him at my poor understanding of the Dutch language.

And as for Doctor Who, well, everyone knows that he actually IS period, as Queen Elizabeth took out a very high bounty on his head for 'reasons unknown...'

The point being, one of the most fun parts of street improv for me is finding new and creative ways to incorporate literally anything that's thrown at me, period or no. That being said, it's understandable if someone wants as close to a specifically Renaissance experience as they can (although it should be said that walking around in a medieval knight outfit circa 1000 AD is as equally out of period as a StarFleet uniform, just in the other direction on the timeline.)

In conclusion, one of the things I love about Renaissance Faires is that every faire has its own personality. Some are wonderfully hyper-historical. The PA Faire is not. They've been taking things in a slightly different direction ever since they paved the roads, amped the stages, and put a soundtrack and fireballs into the Ultimate Joust. I've always enjoyed the more theatrical, 'spirit of the law not the letter' approach to the period that the PA Faire takes, but it's also totally reasonable to dislike it. And the beauty of the Ren Faire world is that there are other Faires that will probably be more to those tastes, frequently within equal driving distance of the PA Faire.

One final thought: please be careful when throwing around the phrase 'They make these decisions because they don't really care about us loyal fans. Anyone who's ever had to plan a party for even a hundred friends, much less ten thousand, knows how INSANELY difficult it is to please everyone, even if (perhaps *especially* if) they're someone you care a lot about.

Sir Rowan sounds like someone I would greatly enjoy interacting with at Faire... or anywhere else!  I admire his sense of fun, and his adaptability.  :D 

Arthur is a real hoot to be around. He recently toured in Spamalot, playing King Arthur

Quote from: BubbleWright on April 12, 2012, 08:45:14 PM
That being said, it's understandable if someone wants as close to a specifically Renaissance experience as they can (although it should be said that walking around in a medieval knight outfit circa 1000 AD is as equally out of period as a StarFleet uniform, just in the other direction on the timeline.)

He's got a wonderful perspective on things, and it's so refreshing to hear that everyone is accepted in his view. I completely agree with everything he's said, especially this snippet. A knight in armor would probably be welcomed by those who are not fond of steampunk, but like he said, they are both out of period. I wish more people would adopt his perspective on being friendly to anyone and everyone, no matter what they are wearing. He sounds like a great guy, thanks for sharing BubbleWright!

Quote from: CecilyWilkins on March 17, 2012, 11:26:42 PM
And honestly, I think I'd rather see a Steampunk costume than plain clothes (...says the mundane who has no garb of any kind).

This is true.  I think some of the (most of the) Steampunk garb I've seen at Bristol has been really REALLY well done, and I'd rather see that than just street clothes.

But the Star Trek, Doctor Who's, come on now.. :)

Saw a quartet of Trekkies at KCRF yesterday that was pretty clever.  Their garb had the cut of Ren period clothing, with the colours you'd expect of Star Fleet. The Vulcan of the group created the ear effect via jewelry.

I love any type of costuming, and I would rather see any garb than none. So yes I am guilty, I usually do one day renaissance and one day steampunk. To me they have just as much place as wizards and fairies. You didn't really see them at the renaissance courts either, but they seem to be fully accepted.  I live in extreme southeast missouri, I have very little opportunity to go to any other event except the faires I travel to, so I am going to take advantage of it and get in as much garb in whatever style I love as I can. To tell the truth, mundanes bother me more than any garb that I might see. As far as vendors, I see so many shops that are not related in any way to renaissance, or just make the barest effort to fit in, that to me a steampunk shop is an advantage. I want new faires in areas where we don't have them, I want the current ones to stick around and I want them to grow. If that means branching out a bit to steampunk then I don't mind a bit.  It's all creativity and fun to me.

I think it's totally fine for patrons to be wearing steam punk. In fact, at Bristol, when I go steam punk (airship mechanic), a lot of the cast has fun asking questions and asking me about my time travel adventures. I've gotten lots of compliments for my outfit too.
What bugs me is when SP becomes "slap on the gears" and it loses its functionality, as I feel functionality is the basis of steampunk.

I'd rather see someone having fun SP than not being able to dress up because they don't have ren garb.

Now if the cast or shop owners were 'punked out, that would most certainly bother me, and i think it would lose the whole vibe of the ren setting ren faire would lose its point.

My wife and I were having this discussion after attending faire this year.  While neither of us mind steampunk as a genre, seeing it take over our faire has diminished our interest in it.  There were quite a few steampunk costumes the day we went, and some vendors have even started to stock a lot of steampunk related items.  I don't mind having a few oddball items here and there, but when you go to a leather shop hoping to find something to accent your renaissance costume, but find nothing but gears it's a little frustrating.  I don't want to get specific, but I went to a certain vendor looking for a piece to go with a future costume I'm making, and was hard pressed to find anything that wasn't steampunk or victorian.  Our primary costuming fun comes from renaissance festivals, and we'd rather look and be inspired by medieval clothing.  There are other events, like comic-cons or steampunk only gatherings, where people can wear that garb.

The wizards, elves, fairies, etc have more of a place than steampunk since these costumes are based off of actual myths from the period, or fantasy/dungeons and dragons material which itself is based off of medieval myths.

I don't want to sound snobbish, but we have the most fun at a festival when we can be immersed in the time period.

I've seen patrons going to Renaissance Faires dressed in Western, SteamPunk, Star Trek/Wars, Fantasy and beyond.  Beyond being I'm not exactly what time period love child they came from.  I agree that Vendors need to make money and so must offer wares that appeal to the customers.  The current trend being Steampunk.  I love the Steampunk look and I agree that at a Renaissance Faires the wares should be more in the background and not so much in the foreground.  I don't really care much for the Steampunk specific booths at faires, it is a renaissance event after all.

With that being said, I think the Steampunk Crossover is really out of hand when it comes to Victorian events such as Dickens Fair.  This is where steampunk has really ruined the whole atmosphere and event in IMHO.  I have even seen Steampunk at western events as well.  Being that it is such a popular theme, why don't they have more events specifically for it and leave the Renaissance/Victorian events alone.

Quote from: Ser Niall on November 01, 2013, 02:16:37 PM
My wife and I were having this discussion after attending faire this year.  While neither of us mind steampunk as a genre, seeing it take over our faire has diminished our interest in it.  There were quite a few steampunk costumes the day we went, and some vendors have even started to stock a lot of steampunk related items.  I don't mind having a few oddball items here and there, but when you go to a leather shop hoping to find something to accent your renaissance costume, but find nothing but gears it's a little frustrating.  I don't want to get specific, but I went to a certain vendor looking for a piece to go with a future costume I'm making, and was hard pressed to find anything that wasn't steampunk or victorian.  Our primary costuming fun comes from renaissance festivals, and we'd rather look and be inspired by medieval clothing.  There are other events, like comic-cons or steampunk only gatherings, where people can wear that garb.

The wizards, elves, fairies, etc have more of a place than steampunk since these costumes are based off of actual myths from the period, or fantasy/dungeons and dragons material which itself is based off of medieval myths.

I don't want to sound snobbish, but we have the most fun at a festival when we can be immersed in the time period.

What he said............is what Steve and I say.

Lady Renee, Sir Michael & Ser Niall:  I couldn't agree more.  I think the steampunk look is intriguing, but it belongs more properly in it's own places...with
it's popularity, surely there might be more specific venues that will spring up to support it, look what's happened with the various Cons for other interests.
On the side of having been a merchant, the best thing that can be done is to support the artisans and merchants who are crafting in the Renaissance or
Medieval eras as much as you can...and of course keep supporting the Faires by attending, become involved more if you can, to keep the Faires alive with
their original intent intact.  And I'm not saying that you have to be historically accurate if you are bothering to wear garb, just that if you are able to come up with a relatively good Steampunk look, you probably can be creative enough to come up with something remotely period.

Lady Renee, et alia;
There are events specifically for steampunk stuff (http://www.tor.com/blogs/2013/10/steampunk-october-2013).
But these people don't see it as ruining someone's Renaissance experience
as much as they see it as getting more use out of something they spent some money on.

I can see that point...Any kind of garb is a financial investment.  I just do miss the days when it was essentially Renaissance/Medieval garb around the Faire.

Quote from: DonaCatalina on November 04, 2013, 04:50:31 AM
Lady Renee, et alia;
There are events specifically for steampunk stuff (http://www.tor.com/blogs/2013/10/steampunk-october-2013).
But these people don't see it as ruining someone's Renaissance experience
as much as they see it as getting more use out of something they spent some money on.

I would love to wear my ren gear for Christmas walkabouts here during the Dickens festivals, but since the 'era' is Victorian...I will not, and do not, intrude on their ambiance. 
    My garb would not fit in, and even though I spend a lot of money attempting to look Elizabethan; there is a time and place for it.

For those unhappy with Doctor Who cosplay at "Renaissance themed" events; the Doctor is a time traveller. Technically he fits in with any time period, be it Elizabethan England or Pre-Revolutionary France or Pompeii on Volcano Day, despite whatever distinctively obscure fashion sense he may display. A time traveller is no more outlandish in an already heavily fictionalised setting than fairies, trolls, wizards, or genuinely benevolent monarchs. I don't care for the fairies, trolls, or wizards, but I don't kick up a fuss about it. They paid their admission price same as me. Might as well make it a party, eh?

Speaking in my own defense, I have loads more fun showing up at Ren faires as the Doctor than I ever did as a pirate. And I probably had more fun that I should have as a pirate. The regular folk get a kick out of having their picture taken with me, and the cast generally enjoy having the last of the Time Lords drop in for a visit. The court at MNRF are particularly welcoming and friendly in that regard. Love Hank and Liz, they're a smashing couple. BARF and TNRF, the faires I attend most regularly, also have me feel right at home. And my companions! Oh, how they do make my hearts glad.

Yes, there are other events I could go to, but they don't fit into my already very full schedule. So if you find my presence at faire distressing... I'm sorry, I'm so, so sorry. You're gonna have to get used to it.  8)

Just to clarify, a time traveler character is a time traveler and thus makes sense.  Just as, (even though perhaps there are a LOT more fae creatures than likely walked the streets within the era), they also were part of the mythos of the time and thus, make sense.
Perhaps if Steampunk folks have time traveling in their repertoire, they make more sense than I realize (and indeed they may, with all of the cogs and gears and such). 
I still miss the days of most people showing up in garb and most people making an effort to fit the period...but you are right, Jack, in that fun is the primary purpose of Faire and has been since the very first one.

The Steampunks I've encountered seem divided into two camps: airship pirates and time travellers (or some odd mixture of both). The ones at BARF got a kick out of being chewed out by the Doctor for their amateurish time travelling antics and the damage they were doing to the space-time continuum.  ;D

I stand corrected, then...Thanks!

  I am hoping to get a Tardis for our little faire so that the Dr(s)-there are 9-10 versions in the Dr Who club- feel more at home. 
  After reading some of the above:  I am going to suggest that the local SP group see about about putting together a Jules Verne Time Machine;  that would really help with linking the 'scene' with the renaissance era. 
     An area could be provided featuring the time machine and the various 'travelers' could have a place to gather and get pics.
  The photo ops alone would be worth it!


Edit: Most faires have a central signpost. Perhaps a 'Time Travelers' picket could be added-pointing the way to the Tardis and Tim Machine area.
   That way the patrons would have an idea where the oddly dressed folk were coming from, and they would have a time/place there.

Renee's statement:  I do not like Steampunk at faire (don't like Trekkies, Dr Who - sorry, Jack - animal and/or furry covered heads, paws, etc).

I don't like to look at it.  That's my opinion.  However, I would never, ever, in a million years tell anyone they are wrong to wear it, shouldn't wear it, are wrecking my day, and all that other nasty stuff......

Everyone pays their money to get in, they can wear whatever they want to enjoy themselves.  I can not look at it if it bothers me.  And that's what I do - on Bristol's steampunk weekend, we don't go.  The rest of the time, it's big enough that you can usually pass most of the day not running into them if you make an effort.

However, the point has already been made - I don't wear my garb to sports events (and our football team is The Pirates!) or to the mall shopping, and I've spent buckets of money on it.  I am with Nickie, I remember the "olden days," 25-30 years ago, when everything was Medieval/Renaissance, and you truly had the "feel" of the era.  That's what I miss most, I think.

Well said, everyone.  Thanks to all for keeping this a friendly, informative and honest discussion.

I did see a post somewhere that the privys should look like a tardis, so it looks like time travelers coming out of them.

(Just for the record, I ditto Renee - their day, their way, but I do not have to like it :) )

Yeah, that joke has been around as long as the show, 50 years and counting.  ;D

Both the Faire and The Doctor are about 50 years old...coincidence?   :)

Period or not period... Fairies are decidedly NOT period to Renaissance England, and neither are Golden Age Pirates or Wizards.  No one would have seen ANY of them walking the streets of ANY village or city in England during that time, or any other country in the land, either.  Oh, and the whole Roman Bacchanal theme?  Right out... along with all of the lovely men in kilts!  No matter what people BELIEVED at the time... what people SAW was JUST... people... walking around going about their business, dressed in the manner befitting their "station in life".  Same with any point in the Medieval era (because even Wizards were called "advisers")... no matter what people believed, it's what they actually saw in their day to day lives that was the reality.  So if people are going to be so insistent that this one thing (Steampunk) does not belong, then none of these other things belong, either.  Take away all of your pirates, all of your Fairies, your Wizards and kilted Scots, and you might as well just take away the magic of Faire, itself... because that's what will happen.  When only one version of something is accepted as being valid, or worthy, to the exclusion of all else... then the magic of that thing begins to die. 

And then you might as well just go spend the day at work, because there won't be much real difference, at all...

I have to say that the original faires didn't have a lot of those characters, but still retained a magical feel without them.  No faire can be completely authentic, but the faires in the era that I started with were just as transporting, although they were different than what they have morphed into.  There are pluses and minuses to any, to be completely honest, at least from the standpoint of having seen them in pretty much all of their incarnations.

Quote from: Lady Nicolette on November 12, 2013, 10:25:31 PM
I have to say that the original faires didn't have a lot of those characters, but still retained a magical feel without them.  No faire can be completely authentic, but the faires in the era that I started with were just as transporting, although they were different than what they have morphed into.  There are pluses and minuses to any, to be completely honest, at least from the standpoint of having seen them in pretty much all of their incarnations.

yep

Faeries and wizards were part of the Celtic folklore. True, they didn't walk the streets, but they were period legends. Storm-troopers, Darth Vader, Steampunk,  and Dr Who were not part of the legends, and Roman centurions were long-gone.

Pirates and kilts were not part of Henry VIII era, as you said, but I'm not going to be the one to tell our (Scarby) Queen Margaret she cannae have her kilted guard about her!  :o  In the grand scheme of things, the kilted Scots and pirates are not considered by the general, less-than-historically-aware public to be out of place.

My main objection to this at the Renaissance and Medieval  faires is that at some, it has become nothing more than a costume party. That's okay, if that's what you want to go to, but personally, I don't. There are so many conventions all over now for the comic book and steampunk characters, they don't need to invade the Ren faires.

You can't really control who wears what to Faire that isn't with the Faire...But I do have to say that I object to Faires accepting outside-of-the-faire scope merchandise...Not saying that the merch has to be h/a, but at least make a reasonable attempt (ie not sell steampunk stuff).  And the cast should reflect the tenor of the Faire, be it Medieval, Renaissance or whatever, as should the entertainment.  Music can be played in the style of, if not actual period music (please, no completely unadulterated bluegrass!), and I really still prefer non-amplified shows and music (or at least well-hidden amplification).

Fortunately there is always a place for a wench!  ;)

No argument there! 

Quote from: Lady Nicolette on November 13, 2013, 07:27:25 AM
You can't really control who wears what to Faire that isn't with the Faire...

....Music can be played in the style of, if not actual period music (please, no completely unadulterated bluegrass!), and I really still prefer non-amplified shows and music (or at least well-hidden amplification).

Yeah, I know that the costumes cannot be controlled. ... and I do consider them just costumes when they veer so far from the feel and atmosphere of the faire.

My hearing isn't what it used to be, so I appreciate the acts that use some amplification so that I can hear what is going on. Otherwise, I have to make sure I get to the show site 20 minutes early to ensure a front-row seat. The sound systems do need to be well-hidden.  They ALSO need to be well-maintained! Hearing static and distortion because the batteries in the transmitters need replacing pretty much sucks.

A group at Sherwood plays nothing but old music AND instruments. I have never in my life seen so many strange and fascinating instruments as they use. Their music is un-amplified, and centuries-old. They explain where it came from, who wrote it, if known, and my wife and I find it a wonderful program. Sad to say that not many stop by in support.

Quote from: Merlin the Elder on November 14, 2013, 09:29:45 AM




A group at Sherwood plays nothing but old music AND instruments. I have never in my life seen so many strange and fascinating instruments as they use. Their music is un-amplified, and centuries-old. They explain where it came from, who wrote it, if known, and my wife and I find it a wonderful program. Sad to say that not many stop by in support.

What group is that?

Gauwyn,
I believe the group Merlin is referring to is the "Worthy Waites of Whimsey".  I've taken in a few of their shows myself at Sherwood.  They give history of the songs they sing as well as history of some of the instruments they play also.  Interesting show that does give one a feel of period music. 
Here's a web address:  http://www.worthywaites.com/ (http://www.worthywaites.com/)

Quote from: Merlin the Elder on November 14, 2013, 09:29:45 AM
A group at Sherwood plays nothing but old music AND instruments. I have never in my life seen so many strange and fascinating instruments as they use. Their music is un-amplified, and centuries-old. They explain where it came from, who wrote it, if known, and my wife and I find it a wonderful program. Sad to say that not many stop by in support.

Would that be Musica Antiqua by any chance?
http://www.music.iastate.edu/antiqua//images/photo38.htm (http://www.music.iastate.edu/antiqua//images/photo38.htm)
  They were a staple at the now defunct  (and much lamented) Renaissance faire of the Midlands in Council Bluffs, Ia.   They played to small audiences by preference, and were always full, but they don't play Renaissance faires here anymore.

  The RFotM went on for 25 years and stayed about 95% true to the original Renaissance Faire 'feel'.   
   Because it was held on a college campus RFotM had no permanent buildings-just some wooden gates and stages that were put in storage between faires-but they managed to be very well attended in spite of being a tent faire with no alcohol. 
  The main complaint was long lines and nightmarish patron parking.
  They protected the ambiance by separating the modernized acts like Tortuga Twins, Jolly Rogers and Musical blades along with the vendors of the Japanese swords and other junk into a different area of the grounds from the vendors of hand made goods.   
    At the other end of the grounds; un-amped musicians, period acts, a fairy Glen, drench-a-wench and entertainment like the joust-which more closely represented the 'era' of the faire were located among the trees and in colorful tents.
  I loved that fact that you could attend the 'real' Renaissance faire, then had the options to go over and see the rest of it if you want.
When the RFotM moved to Westfaire, started serving alcohol and allowing more junk vendors in, the Patronage that allowed them to pay the name acts like Tartanic, et al. dried up.
   Within a couple of years they resembled a flea market with a joust, and folded shortly thereafter.
 
 

Quote from: Merlin the Elder on November 14, 2013, 09:29:45 AM

A group at Sherwood plays nothing but old music AND instruments. I have never in my life seen so many strange and fascinating instruments as they use. Their music is un-amplified, and centuries-old. They explain where it came from, who wrote it, if known, and my wife and I find it a wonderful program. Sad to say that not many stop by in support.

That sounds like a wonderful group!

With the perspective of about 40 years of doing this, it does seem like the Faires that were nonprofits do seem to have had a lot more historical bent to them.  The old RFotM sounds like it was a wonderful Faire.  The corporate/for-profit structure seems to bow more to the money-gods, but that is the way of the world.  I'm glad I got to experience the old ones the way that they were and glad that the Faire still exist even in their present incarnations.

 Agreed.   Siouxland is the only non profit faire that I know of right now.  It is truly a delight to attend.  The patrons have put a lot into getting this off the ground, including attracting some of the known acts like Twigg, Tortuga Twins and the Lost boys.  Since the faire is the first weekend of June-I guess its 'pre -season' for them.  They try out some of their new material too.  They did have Celtic Games there this year.
   I don't get that the only model that the PTB think will make money is a mish-mash of Marde Gras and Carnival with a little Sturgis bike rally thrown in.
    Renaissance themes seem to be incidental.

Quote from: Lady Nicolette on November 14, 2013, 01:18:54 PM

Quote from: Merlin the Elder on November 14, 2013, 09:29:45 AM

A group at Sherwood plays nothing but old music AND instruments. I have never in my life seen so many strange and fascinating instruments as they use. Their music is un-amplified, and centuries-old. They explain where it came from, who wrote it, if known, and my wife and I find it a wonderful program. Sad to say that not many stop by in support.

That sounds like a wonderful group!

They are. As RenStarr guessed, they're called the Worthy Waites of Whimsey.  As far as I know, they only do Sherwood.

Their web page - http://www.worthywaites.com/ (http://www.worthywaites.com/)