Okay, here's the deal: school starts back up in a week, I got bitten by the hatmaking bug when I picked up this great millinery how-to book called "HATS!" I can't afford the hat blocks, and I can't find the buckram frame in the shape I want. I was perusing the Margo Anderson pattern instructuions for the tall hat and she said to make the frame out of plastic canvas. Is this the same stuff people use to make rug-hooking projects? Kind of like a thick plastic grid? If so, I think I can use it to make this particular hat frame instead of buckram. To those of you who have been making hats, do you find this to be an acceptable replacement for a buckram frame? This thread is especially aimed at YOU Lady Kathleen as you seem to have experience doing EVERYTHING! (I saw your hats on another hat-making thread and they were gorgeous, SHOCKING! lol) What other changes would I need to make by not having the "correct" supplies?
I have a friend who has made some of her hat frames out of plastic canvas. It is not what is used for rug hooking, I would think that the holes are much too small for that, it's more of a needlework kind of canvas
Great! Thanks Raevyn!
You can DEFINITELY get awesome hats using a plastic canvas base. You can buy it in any craft store. It's just like what you use for latch-hook rug making, except the holes are MUCH SMALLER. Most often it's used for yarn needlepoint crafts (think of what you see in those beginner cross-stitching kits for children). Here are a couple good tricks to remember:
I highly recommend doing a good thick whip stitch all the way around the edges of your frame before you put on your pretty fabric, not just to hold any padding in place, but to prevent any sharp spurs from the plastic edges from poking through the final product.
Also, if your plastic frame seems a little flimsy for the piece you're working on (say, a large top hat, for instance), use WIRE to stitch the seams together, and wrap the plastic periodically with wire wherever needed to add strength or shape to it.
Have fun experimenting!
http://www.flickr.com/photos/strawberrykaren/222418482/ (http://www.flickr.com/photos/strawberrykaren/222418482/)
The French Hood I'm wearing in the link above is from plastic canvas. The photo was taken six years ago and, unlike some of the cardboard base hat I have, the plastic canvas still looks fantastic. It's relatively easy to cut. Given that you are looking for an Elizabethan style tall hat, you might want to look at the Saint Patrick's Day hats. You can easily cover one of those to look semi-correct.
I use the non-woven pelmet stiffening! Works a treat, and I use it for a lot of hats from different eras.
My husband bought me a tall hat from a shop in Bristol, can't remember the name at the moment. It is made with plastic canvas, and I love it!
We go to faire in the brutal hot summers, and it is so light on my head and thus keeps me cool, not sweating from a heavy hat. I've had it 4 or 5 years, and it is in the same shape and perfect condition as when we bought it. It's in my avatar picture. It kind of tilted down, so you can't see that it is tall, but it is!
Thank you EVERYONE! I love this board! Isabella, it looks so smooth, did you use a spray adhesive? It gives me hope I may be able to do this--I need a hat for my Victorian outfit and this is the only way I'll be able to afford it :/ Thanks again!
No, no spray adhesive. What I did was keep the raw edges out and then sew the black veil to the upper raw edge (right sides together) and the lower raw edge to the coif (right sides together). This hid the edges inside the hood but also allowed for a smoother look. ;D
Plastic canvas works great for many Hat styles. I use it for Pill Boxes, French Hoods, and Gabled Hoods.
For Elizabethan Tall Hats, and Brims, I use heavy duty Buckram from JudithM Millinery.
The Margo pattern recommends plastic canvas for durability and waterproofing, since buckram tends to melt in the rain.
Plastic also does not have the crease memory of fabric, so it stands to reason it would hold up better to crushing.
I want to make a gabled hood one day, and I think plastic will be the way to go.
I haver not quite perfected the use of Plastic canvas for Arched Tall Hats as of yet. I will have to experiment on smaller hats, like more for Steam Punk.
I have had no problems with the Buckram, even when there has been moisture.
If any of you are in DFW and are going to All-Con this weekend, our own Sharon of Dreamhats is going to be leading a panel on hat-making. She could probably give you some great info too. :)
Well, I bought the plastic canvas today. I'm going to use some old fabric remnant for my test hat, see how that goes.
I'm afraid I don't know what DFW is, so it's safe to assume I won't be going lol. Wish I could though. It's hard being a self-motivated learner with no support...thank god I have you ladies ;)
Wicked, do you have a link to your hat book, pretty please?!
(DFW *usually* = Dallas/Fort Worth)
And just for fun, here's a shot of my pillbox made with a plastic canvas base (http://pic50.picturetrail.com/VOL417/1033223/17691164/275717822.jpg).
Quote from: Lady Kathleen of Olmsted on March 13, 2012, 12:44:58 PM
I have had no problems with the Buckram, even when there has been moisture.
I haven't heard of anyone having real problems with buckram in hats either, so it surprised me to see MA require the plastic for her tall hat pattern.
According to what I have found on the net though, there
isa milliners buckram that is stiffened with water soluble glue to make it more pliable for use while shaping hats, so it is apparently not waterproof. I would think that buckram used for dressmaking would need to hold it's shape through a washing, so it may be a different type.
I have not had the misfortune, as yet, to have my hoods (made with 'regular' buckram as far as I know) get wet, so I don't have personal experience with the 'slump' effect some folks have reported.
The hatmakers out there would know more...... ;D
Gem--http://www.amazon.com/dp/0312656866/?tag=googhydr-20&hvadid=8748849684&hvpos=1t1&hvexid=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=2043576931269055271&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=b&ref=pd_sl_7gmh72sds1_b
I wanted to make the hat on the cover in gold shantung to match my skirt, but turns out I should've measured my melon before I went shopping--the canvas is too small. I may just abandon my pursuit for now. School starts up again next monday and I still have finishing on a couple projects and need to get started on a christening outfit for a friend. :( Oh well, I can admit when I've taken on too much.
Quote from: Lady Kathleen of Olmsted on March 13, 2012, 12:44:58 PM
I haver not quite perfected the use of Plastic canvas for Arched Tall Hats as of yet. I will have to experiment on smaller hats, like more for Steam Punk.
It's actually quite easy. The plastic canvas is very flexible and with a bit of wire sewin along the brim - it holds it's shape nicely.
I have used plastic canvas in all my hats that I wanted a bit of form and shape for: tall hats, pillboxes, flat caps and italian bonnets (just the brim, of course). I like it as it is very breathable and so easy to work with (ie: when you mess up cutting it, it is not expensive to replace ;D )
Quote from: Wickedvox on March 13, 2012, 05:02:43 PM
Gem--http://www.amazon.com/dp/0312656866/?tag=googhydr-20&hvadid=8748849684&hvpos=1t1&hvexid=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=2043576931269055271&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=b&ref=pd_sl_7gmh72sds1_b
I wanted to make the hat on the cover in gold shantung to match my skirt, but turns out I should've measured my melon before I went shopping--the canvas is too small. I may just abandon my pursuit for now. School starts up again next monday and I still have finishing on a couple projects and need to get started on a christening outfit for a friend. :( Oh well, I can admit when I've taken on too much.
I would think that you could piece together a large enough bit of plastic canvas, by wiring or whatever you planned to do to connect the 2 ends together in 2 places instead of just the one original spot. Measure how big around you need your crown opening, and cut a second piece of the plastic canvas to make up the shortage left from the full piece. For example, if you need 20 inches, and your full piece of canvas is 14 inches, cut the remaining 6 inches from a second piece of canvas and secure it to one edge of the full one, and then you should be able to fit your crown from there.
**Now, that suggestion is NOT from experience, as I've never in my life made a hat, but it seems like a logical solution to me.**
Raevyn, I'd considered that, but I think it would create a sharp edge where they were joined that I would not be able to smooth out. I will just keep pondering it for now.
I had to adjoin to bits of canvas together and what I did was to whip stitch them together and where the sharp edge was created, I "forced" it to be flat by afixing a popcicle stick to the back of the canvas.
It kept the edge from bumping out and no one ever saw the inside of my hat, so I was covered.
Quote from: Rennigirl on March 14, 2012, 03:38:22 PM
I had to adjoin to bits of canvas together and what I did was to whip stitch them together and where the sharp edge was created, I "forced" it to be flat by afixing a popcicle stick to the back of the canvas.
It kept the edge from bumping out and no one ever saw the inside of my hat, so I was covered.
That's a good idea Renni!! Thanks!
I've used both plastic canvas and buckram, and I have to admit I prefer buckram. Mostly, I just find it easier to wrangle - stitching wire to plastic canvas is a pain!
As far as buckram melting in the rain, it is a problem, but not an insurmountable one. Use a heavy buckram (medium or theater weight), double it up, mull it (cover with flannel, its another layer between the buckram and the rain), and then spray the whole finished piece with Camp Dry (or some other water proofing spray) when you're done. I've made French hoods out of buckram and have had very little problem with rain. Just keep adding that Camp Dry!
Hey ladies, check it out! I emailed the author of Hats! about my difficulties and she wrote me back! Just in case any of you were interested in sources (aren't we all) and DIY tips (again, aren't we all?).
Hello Erin (that's me! *points to self*),
Thanks for your email, and for your interest in my book. It is true that hat blocks are very expensive - this is sadly an unavoidable aspect to millinery. It is worth keeping an eye on eBay for any useful blocks - sometimes they sell for reasonable prices, sometimes for quite a lot, it really depends on the market. I get my blocks from a British blockmaker called Guy-Morse Brown, who makes both the modern 'trilby' crown shape (in truth, not a true trilby, but a modern variation) and the cloche brim block which I use in the book to make the trilby shape. You should be able to see all the block shapes on his website.
There is also a Brooklyn-based milliner (I can't remember his name off the top of my head) who has a tutorial on YouTube on how to make a your own block based on an existing hat, using spray foam. I have never done this, and think it would probably not be a lasting solution - ie, you could make a couple hats on the block, but it wouldn't last forever. You can also carve you own block using high-density styrofoam, but you need to make sure you wear a mask and work in a well-ventilated area as the dust can be pretty nasty. If you do this or the spray foam technique, I would make the brim and crown separately, so that you can adjust the fit and dimensions easily.
Hope that is helpful, best of luck,
Sarah (Cant)
I have done a few hats with the plastic canvas. What I learned:
1) Overlap the canvas for "seams". This will keep the canvas from trying to bow out at that point.
2) Use a lining fabric or thin batting or interfacing if you are covering it with a really thin fabric. Especially if fabric is shiny or you might get wet... otherwise "grid" shows through.
3) Is GREAT in wet weather!!!! No losing it's shape!
4) If you think of it, sew an "ice pack pocket" into it! SOOOO nice on hot days!\
5) Use fishing line or such to sew the canvas... hold FOREVER!
6) Buy some of the cheap wire coat hangers from Walmart. The plastic tip on the end pops right off and the wire is sturdy but easy to cut and shape. Use two plastic tips and you will never have a poke-through!
Wow! Thanks Lady Aldyth! GREAT tips! LOOOVE the ice pocket idea! (I'm stashing this thread away for my summer projects ;)
Be very wary of using ice packs. There have been SERIOUS medical issues associated with ice packs and using them for longer than 15 minutes. If you need cool off at fair, wet a wash cloth and wear that. It's a lot safer. /end medical alert
Quote from: isabelladangelo on March 24, 2012, 12:32:11 AM
Be very wary of using ice packs. There have been SERIOUS medical issues associated with ice packs and using them for longer than 15 minutes. If you need cool off at fair, wet a wash cloth and wear that. It's a lot safer. /end medical alert
LOL you sound like a fellow nursing student! Heat & ice: 20 minutes on, 20 minutes off!
Quote from: Wickedvox on March 24, 2012, 11:45:08 AM
Quote from: isabelladangelo on March 24, 2012, 12:32:11 AM
Be very wary of using ice packs. There have been SERIOUS medical issues associated with ice packs and using them for longer than 15 minutes. If you need cool off at fair, wet a wash cloth and wear that. It's a lot safer. /end medical alert
LOL you sound like a fellow nursing student! Heat & ice: 20 minutes on, 20 minutes off!
;D When you've seen people go into shock due to using ice packs on a hot day you tend to be a bit militant about people getting cooled off naturally.
Ice packs directly applied can cause problems regardless of how hot it is. I can't stand one on me for more than a few seconds. Wrapping the pack in a layer or two of dry terry cloth removes the risk and discomfort, and lets a cool layer of air permeate after a few minutes. A wet washcloth or even bandana around your neck is perfectly safe, easy, and extremely effective, as Isabella suggests. An alternate point is on your wrists. Both places are easily accessible and carry a lot of blood.
If heat is a problem on any given day, alcohol, especially, should be avoided. Caffeinated drinks can also be trouble makers.
Sounds like we've got a few medical scholars around here! Merlin is right, anywhere that is a pulse point is a good area to cool--surface veins and arteries cool more quickly reducing temperature more efficiently. REI sells a cooling bandana you can dip in cool water once and it remains cool for up to 4 hours (If I remember correctly).
WalMart also has the bandana looking coolies, that have the crystals in them that you can soak for awhile in cold water, and they work for several hours. they are also, as I understand it, not terribly hard to make. One of my friends has some that look like small snakes... I try to keep a supply in my cooler at the shoppe (in a ziploc baggie, because if they absorb too much water, the crystals keep expanding and the gel starts to ooze between the weave), just in case I get overly warm.