Lemme 'splain.
When I first was bitten by the bug I bought a shirt...needed breeches...had old, thin sweatpants, needed boots and had those black moccasin boots.
This morphed, by what I thought was necessity to 'better' bits of garb. Upgrades to wrap pants, better moccasin boots, hood and mantle, very rustic/almost burlap-like dark brown tabbard to Moresca Archers Jerkin.
My semi-fantasy-semi-Medieval woodsmen look gave way to a desire for a more Renaissance-y gentleman/soldier...thing.
Better boots, rapier, hat, better jerkins and doublets.
All along came many more shirts and breeches, etc. as well as more accessories like better pouches (became bigger pouches)....
After so much time and so much more money, I had (at various points) reached a satisfactory point given the goal.
But something else emerged: a significant displacement of comfort.
This, then, resulted in a certain 'scaling back' of certain elements. A bit of 'letting go'. Some measure of 'relaxing' semi-HA wishes/viewpoints.
Was this a sort of maturity, or rather a recognition of adult play and, as such (and accepting and embracing it as such) that this aforementioned...thing...could have its self-imposed leash relaxed? Or was it really as simple as: This is what I wanted...and man, it makes me hot in this GA heat and/or I'm constantly adjusting this or that or everything?
What I do know is that some things I wore a few years ago I'd never wear again in a million years, no matter how appropriate or realistic they may be because, to put it lightly, that s*** is some uncomfortable and annoying s***. ;)
I wore the archer's jerkin from Moresca I bought back in 1996 for the first time in over a decade to GARF today and, despite issues of my own self-image, was more comfortable than I had been in quite some time.
I'd have not dared worn something so gauche last year! It had to be an appropriately short/high(natural waist) doublet.
But that, too, has its place and its place is no longer its HA, but rather if it feels good to wear.
tl;dr version: my garb has gone from barely passable, to acceptable (considering), to fully appropriate to the spirit, to almost HA with practical limitations, to "Meh. It's not jeans and I look lots better than those Samurai Pirate Link Rangers with Nikes. Besides, I'm not as hot, tired and sweaty as that guy with the better garb and ruffled collar nor as uncomfortable in terms of temp comfort and within degrees of 'I-feel-silly'-ness as some of the Halloween costume-wearers."
I'm tossing aside my once-loved doublets for the old, toss-on vests and jerkins. I've given up on the 'swash tops' of my Son of Sandlar boots for 'just the boot itself'. I'd rather the basic hat than the Excalibur Musketeer hat. I'd rather my German Side Sword than the annoyingly long Torino rapier.
I'm nearing the Ren Fest version of the dude at the store in his old tennis shoes, worn comfy shorts and fave t-shirt.
Anyone else felt and/or experienced this? How did it transpire? How did you reconcile it? Did you just accept it and let it slide (giving it a "hey, I just wanna have fun, so this facilitates this fun, so...so what?")?
To me, it got hot in the middle ages too. If I'm wearing English garb in the summer heat, I tend to just wear my stays, a shift, and my farthingale + skirt. My shift is made out of linen that helps a lot and the farthingale acts as a fan by it's swaying as you walk. However, most of the time, I'm in Italian garb which was made to deal with the heat.
For a guy, I'd suggest not wearing the jerkin and just wearing slops with a shirt - as was common in the middle ages. It might not be "pretty" but it was what was done on the hot days. People tend to go back on what they know (ie, modern considerations) rather than research further and see how our ancestors would have handled it. BTW, a kilt with a linen shirt is probably pretty comfortable in the summer weather.
Basic summer tips for faire: Leaving the neck line and shoulders open allows heat to better escape from your body. Don't drink alcohol or sodas when it's hot - drink a lot of water instead. This will help you keep cool and allow your body to sweat like it should. Linen, linen, linen for any shirts/shifts/ or other garments close to the body. For some reason (And I've done this too!) the modern faire goers seems to believe everything was black and white in the Renaissance. ;) Rather than wearing those black pants with the black doublet, try lighter colors and materials. Black will make you feel warmer than a nice green or blue. And, believe it or not, do NOT expose your skin - sun directly on the skin not only can cause burns (Lobster is not a good persona for most people) but also will make you far more warm than having something like a shift between you and the sun on your arms and legs. (Again, leave the neckline open for heat to escape)
As Isabella stated it did get hot back in the time as it does today. Being HA is nice however being comfortable and avoiding a heat stroke is important. Camaflouge modern conveniences, the neck coolers that you submerge in cold water can be disguised undwe a kerchief or a rag and work wonders. One thing and no disrespect to the diehard HA folks while people of old had to endure heat and cold there is also the climatical changes to consider. 80 degrees in Germany is hot while in Oklahoma and Texas its just getting started hot is 95 plus. Germany is comfortable at hot Oklahoma and Texas even at 80 the humidity will start to kick your arse and dont get any better. Faire is about fun so I have always tried to think comfort first as I stated heat stroke will ruin an otherwise great day. HA is great just dont kill yourself to get there.
Eric I totally get you!!! I started out cheap and make shift and moved up over the years to handmade corsets, bum rolls, farthingales, peticoats, stomachers, over sleeves, coif and hat and all the fixins... and like many I loved the look so much.... but in NO possible way could ever afford the outragous and insane prices that so many pay for "natural and period fibers" and all that rot. So I just call it Hollywood HA or fantasy Elizabethan and let the garb nazi's be danged.... They are all completely correct in their quality information about breathing and cooling and all that... but I found that i just drink plenty of water (and yes I mean beer), dont overdo it and stay in the shade when possible was enough to keep me going.... BUT.. that didn't aleviate the misery of trying to get my dress between benches to sit and enjoy a show.... or not being able to bend down easily in a crowd to fetch a dropped hanky... even the simple task of a trip to the privy is a time wasting ordeal. So I have scaled back a lot! Losing a little weight has helped a bit with keeping the look and for 2012 I so far have totally forgone the corsets... I have been lightly boning my bodices so I get the effect even if it is not "perfect". I use lightweight ribbon neck ruffs that I wear like a choker instead of full starched partlets and skip carrying all the gloves and hand blown glass mug and bottles and all that crap that hangs off my basket. I found that if I had 50 people stop for a picture in the hard core garb... I still had 45 do the same in the cheater versions. I still do the noble garb, but you might find bare legs or cool hawiian jammie bottoms under my skirt for comfort instead of period correct underpinning... Just is sooo much easier and no body belongs under or peeking inside my dress anyways. Plus I like being able to partly dress or disrobe in the parking lot so I can enjoy dinner with friends so some of my stuff has become quick release.
I find it is as much about comfort as it is about perfection. Of course this is just for faire that I am speaking. and for me, Faire is more about fun and distraction than being accutely accurate. Huzzah to you dear for making sure your experience is fun!!!
I am sure I will continue to find ways to make my garb more comfortable and I don't feel I am spoiling anything for myself or those with whom I spend my days by doing so.
I have told numerous people that one of the reasons we gravitated towards pre-1550 Spanish clothing is that most of Spain is about the same latitude as Texas and has a very similar climate.
I make my own garb so that it fits me and I'm comfortable in it. I use fabrics like cotton, linen and silk so that our clothes breathe while also protecting from direct exposure to sun.
Having had 2nd/3rd degree sunburn when I was 15, I have no desire to repeat the experience.
You can get heatstroke in a muscle shirt and speedos if you don't stay hydrated.
One thing I didnt count on was how inconvenient it would be swinging that 40-inch sword around on a baldric. You constantly had to keep a hand on it to keep it from hitting shop displays or unsuspecting patrons! Finding something new that was more easy to manage was tough, but I found a nice 30-inch katzbalger short sword. Pretty historically inaccurate for a 17th century Scotsman to carry, but less hazardous to people and scenery!
Quote from: The Rabbi on May 21, 2012, 08:51:28 AM
As Isabella stated it did get hot back in the time as it does today. Being HA is nice however being comfortable and avoiding a heat stroke is important. Camaflouge modern conveniences, the neck coolers that you submerge in cold water can be disguised undwe a kerchief or a rag and work wonders. One thing and no disrespect to the diehard HA folks while people of old had to endure heat and cold there is also the climatical changes to consider. 80 degrees in Germany is hot while in Oklahoma and Texas its just getting started hot is 95 plus. Germany is comfortable at hot Oklahoma and Texas even at 80 the humidity will start to kick your arse and dont get any better. Faire is about fun so I have always tried to think comfort first as I stated heat stroke will ruin an otherwise great day. HA is great just dont kill yourself to get there.
However, it also gets a lot colder in 16th Century Germany in the winter than it does in 21st C Texas. ;) There is a reason people in Idaho wear in 55F what people in Texas might not consider wearing until it gets to 85F.
Eric, you've reminded me how uncomfortable and hot I can be at faire. I'm glad you started this thread, I never really considered pairing down a bit, but now I will. I'm a wench, but I have gotten rid of the corsets, I just could not walk around, sit, drive, etc in one of those. So I've been wearing boned bodices and they are way more comfortable.
But I could also leave a few things off of my belt. Maybe skip the leather bracers when it's too hot. Wear only 1 full cotton skirt instead of 2. Switch to short chemises. Ditch the favor rag. Invest in a lighter weight hat instead of the heavy ones I have. Hmmmm, you've given me something to think about.
Gina
What Dona C said. We think of "the Renaissance" as only happening in chilly England and Northern Europe. It ALSO happened in Spain and southern Italy, where temps in the 90s and high humidity were regular summer occurrences. Not to mention the fact that, during the actual Renaissance, there were Spaniards settled in Florida, and roaming about Texas, Oklahoma, and Kansas. AND Europeans started settling horrifically hot, swampy Virginia in the early 1600s. So our forebears actually knew A LOT about dressing for exactly the sort of weather our fairs take place in (and, in some cases, in the exact LOCATIONS our fairs take place!). (Check out Plimoth Plantation (https://www.google.com/search?q=plimouth+plantation+reenactors&oe=utf-8&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&um=1&ie=UTF-8&hl=en&tbm=isch&source=og&sa=N&tab=wi&ei=jHi6T7uJEeH16AGa9OHyCg&biw=1173&bih=748&sei=mni6T5DeKM6A6QGmj5H9Cg) to see how early settlers dressed for the North American summers.)
I find, for me, I'm actually far more comfortable in the heat (of Kansas, which I gather is like Texas, only more humid) in my Fair garb... than I am in corresponding mundane clothes like shorts and a T-shirt. And I think the #1 reason is that almost every inch of my skin is covered and protected from the sun. On the hottest days, I wear a big straw hat, which really is like walking around with your own source of shade (I find it more effective *by far* than a parasol).
But... like Arbocind and Isabella said, I *definitely* plan for the heat and switch up my ensembles. On the real Kansas Summer days, it's linen, linen, and more linen all the way. Lightly boned gowns instead of layers of corsetry and undergarments. I've also started carrying a basket, because like Arbocind mentioned, that dang BELT hanging around the waist gets hot & uncomfortable darn quick! It's just unfortunate that you guys don't experience the miraculous cooling effect of the swish of a linen skirt (or a farthingale!). I suppose a kilt might be similar...?
I do think, though, that there is something to be said for the adjustment to the fit of period clothing. It IS different than what we're used to every day, particularly the close fit on the torso and the respect for the natural waist--and how you move in your clothing does have a lot to do with how "comfortable" you find things. There are modern clothes I find perfectly comfortable for wearing out to work or whatnot, but which I'd find restrictive and uncomfortable for a Saturday afternoon lounging on the couch with my dogs. It's a context thing.
I think the true gist was lost in my rambling. Sorry for that. :)
Allow me to try again.
When I started I didn't have much and was comfy, but dissatisfied in what I was wearing as it wasn't 'realistic' enough for the period, being more loose fantasy. I wanted more appropriate clothing. I got more and more of it and then realized I just didn't feel good in it. (though I love the short at-the-natural-waist doublet...but I'd never wear it buttoned. Ugh. Hot.)
It's like I'm going back to what I began with (albeit with nicer stuff).
I can't do without a jerkin or doublet though. Just breeches and shirt would be way too boring. ;)
Heat is a separate, but related issue. All my stuff is bought with that consideration, since GARF is hot about 90% of the time. All 100% cotton and thin, light and airy. My fave breeches (100% cotton from Heart's Delight...and way overpriced) are positively gauzy. I could feel a mouse's sneeze through them at a hundred paces.
All my shirts are light, loose and cotton. I don't even wear my cotton blend shirts anymore.
I'll admit I even began going 'commando'. lol
Besides two of my hats, I never wear anything black. All shirts I've worn for the past few years are white or natural. Everything else is either green or brown (rarely).
Anyhoo, I was wondering if others followed this path of basically saying : "I don't care about all this mess anymore. What I care more about is bein' comfy and darn the garb (more or less)." ;D
Quote from: Maithu Ruadh on May 21, 2012, 11:23:18 AM
One thing I didnt count on was how inconvenient it would be swinging that 40-inch sword around on a baldric. You constantly had to keep a hand on it to keep it from hitting shop displays or unsuspecting patrons! Finding something new that was more easy to manage was tough, but I found a nice 30-inch katzbalger short sword. Pretty historically inaccurate for a 17th century Scotsman to carry, but less hazardous to people and scenery!
You ain't kiddin'.
At least once a year I wear my more Musketeer-inspired look and I spend most of the day thinking how I can't wait to wear my Son of Sandlar Capt. Teach's without the tops and to return to the shorter sword rather than that darn rapier.
Also, something about the Musketeer Hat from Excalibur (as much as I
love it!) keeps me from feeling comfortable in the neck and shoulder area. Almost like I can't move my neck muscles or crack my neck (even though I take it off lots of times in a day to do just that). The smaller and less obtrusive hats (like a muffin cap) are more comfy.
Quitting smoking last year helped pair down a bit of weight on my belt. Now I only have to have a single e-cig and a spare cartridge. I attempted to replace my wooden tankard with a small copper mug, but the metallic taste was not a winner for me.
EDIT - I really feel for you ladies and all the layers you guys have. Though, as pointed out by gem above, you get the air-conditioning swish with your skirts.
QuoteAnyhoo, I was wondering if others followed this path of basically saying : "I don't care about all this mess anymore. What I care more about is bein' comfy and darn the garb (more or less)."
Oh, lordy, yes! That's exactly why I made this dress (http://pic50.picturetrail.com/VOL417/1033223/17691164/275717822.jpg), which I used to call my Easy Dress. :D It reduces the layers (particularly at my waist), fits over mundane undergarments (hallelujah!), and closes with easy-peasy clasps instead of laces. However... it also strongly resembles this period example (http://pic50.picturetrail.com/VOL417/1033223/17480040/321237253.jpg), by Botticelli. It really is the best of both worlds. And I wore it TO DEATH. (It has been supplanted by this gown (http://pic50.picturetrail.com/VOL417/1033223/23882966/398628645.jpg), which is just as comfy but not quite as quick to get on. Don't seem to have a photo of it minus all the accessories that make it more period, like the sleeves, partlet, etc. But it converts to "easy" pretty quick!)
ETA: There are a lot of ways to get a more period look with easier-to-work-with pieces. Frex, in my avatar, I'm wearing a chemise AND a partlet... but a high-necked chemise would give the exact same look with fewer pieces to deal with. This kirtle (http://pic50.picturetrail.com/VOL417/1033223/23882966/398339163.jpg) has a totally-boned bodice and stiffened skirt hem, so I don't also have to wear a corset and farthingale.
Lots of little tricks like that--at least in women's wear. Anyone have similar tips for men?
I haven't made that sacrifice yet. Faire is once a year, and by god I'm going to dress all the way up for it. Though, my garb is not terribly uncomfortable either.
Faire is my job, so I've had to learn to make HA attire comfortable. Obviously natural fibers are important, and drinking water, and covering your skin, but the golden rule when it comes to comfort, AFAIC, is "buy custom". Buying off the rack is not going to give you a fit as good as having something made (or making it yourself), and when the fit is wrong, you're not going to be as comfortable, the end.
I have kind of pared down, by making some loose, non-corset-non-tightly-laced-bodice garb, or some garb that looks good soaking wet. I have a "gypsy" bodice (not EVEN getting into what a "real" gypsy looks like, I call it gypsy, so daggumit, it's gypsy. Deal.) that you can't even tell is wet when it is, and in our heat that helps. Mostly I would say that the heat and humidity of my home faire is one reason that I'm historically accur-ISH in my garbing. I use natural fibers that breathe but don't really worry about some of the frippery that adds things that can itch, stick or bunch in the heat (if that makes sense) or that I would worry about getting sweat or water on it.
As with most of the people here, I morphed when it came to being comfortable.
When I wear my Noble garb, I stick to as Natural fibers as possible. Cottons, Linens, Silks. Even if it is warm, I am comfortable because moisture is not evaporating as rapidly because of my various layers. I have portable shade as well as staying hydrated at all times.
Quote from: stonebiscuit on May 21, 2012, 04:26:19 PM
Faire is my job, so I've had to learn to make HA attire comfortable. Obviously natural fibers are important, and drinking water, and covering your skin, but the golden rule when it comes to comfort, AFAIC, is "buy custom". Buying off the rack is not going to give you a fit as good as having something made (or making it yourself), and when the fit is wrong, you're not going to be as comfortable, the end.
And it helps that I know my stuff can be trown in the washing machine and hung out to dry if it gets muddy. The silk underthings I can wash by hand.
Quote from: Amyj on May 21, 2012, 04:37:41 PM...or some garb that looks good soaking wet.
Since my girlfriend is present on these forums I'll not, I repeat,
not ask for more info on what this garb looks like when soaking wet! ;D
Quote from: Amyj on May 21, 2012, 04:37:41 PMaccur-ISH
You do, however, win the thread for the new word! :D
Lady Kathleen has responded in my thread! I'm not worthy!!! lol
But, seriously...
Quote from: Lady Kathleen of Olmsted on May 21, 2012, 08:32:15 PM
As with most of the people here, I morphed when it came to being comfortable.
I do find it interesting that one whom can storm forward and do seemingly all things garb related would ever see a need to scale back. It, after a fashion (if I'm pardoned the pun), makes me feel more comfortable in my personal decision to 'let some things go'. I mean, I know I should just relax and....relax, but I can't help but feel... darn... I dunno... like I'm being lazy? Not being...committal?
Weird.
Quote from: DonaCatalina on May 22, 2012, 04:49:47 AM
Quote from: stonebiscuit on May 21, 2012, 04:26:19 PM
Faire is my job, so I've had to learn to make HA attire comfortable. Obviously natural fibers are important, and drinking water, and covering your skin, but the golden rule when it comes to comfort, AFAIC, is "buy custom". Buying off the rack is not going to give you a fit as good as having something made (or making it yourself), and when the fit is wrong, you're not going to be as comfortable, the end.
And it helps that I know my stuff can be trown in the washing machine and hung out to dry if it gets muddy. The silk underthings I can wash by hand.
Oh, please. If I can't throw it in the back of the closet for the better part of a year then haphazardly toss it in both standard wash and dry, then I'm either not buying it and/or not wearing it.
I don't even wear the nice casual sports jackets and blazers I used to wear that required dry cleaning in mundane life. It's either none or unlined 100% cotton ones that I can spray with Febreeze and toss in the wash once a year! :P
Having a concealed carry permit and carrying a pistol everyday, I dress around it, so I'm used to layering even in the summer in GA. So I'm no stranger to this in mundane life.
So, wearing layers and whatnot isn't alien to me.
Others have issues with the cuts of the garb feeling so different to modern fashion, but that's not my issue either, as I mentioned before I actually love the feel of a doublet being 'way high up' at my natural waist. I've no issue of a heavy steel weapon on my hip either, obviously.
Strange, then, that I might still have these odd comfort issues. :/
Quote from: insidiousraven on May 21, 2012, 04:19:32 PM
I haven't made that sacrifice yet. Faire is once a year, and by god I'm going to dress all the way up for it. Though, my garb is not terribly uncomfortable either.
And see? That's yet another part of the issue (such as it is). How far does one go before one says to oneself (basically) 'well, heck I might as well just wear shorts and a t-shirt to fest if I'm gonna go this far?'. Dig?
I mean, yes, I could wear knee breeches and some simple shoes (as opposed to boots), no weapon and a loose and open jerkin or doublet and no hat and untucked shirt... but, man... from
my personal perspective that's actually far enough gone that I might as well go in 'mundanes'.
Well, when we first started dressing we had certain things in mind from watching other people at the Faire. So we went for those things. And you're right some of them are really not comfortable. For instance one of my first purchases was a dagger which I have long since deemed too heavy and not worth it!
And while I absolutely love most things piratical, I just didn't have the energy to dress that way this past weekend because it would have been too much trouble, LOL. And hot, but it was mostly the trouble part that sent me back to wench 101.
So yes, Eric I have done that same circle of "eh, too much trouble". But to cure you of going in 'danes - go once. We've gone in mundanes twice this year. One to Sherwood on a Sunday because it was near freezing with small bits of icy precipitation falling and we would have had to change in the parking lot for the 4 hour drive home. No thank you. Just let me in to pick up a few things and we'll head north! That was actually ok because several others we knew in a similar situation did the same thing!
And then one this year to Scarby due to my husband's health issues - it was either go in 'danes or not go. He hated it. It was like being in disguise. The next weekend (and since then) we've gone garbed, although a bit of garb-lite version compared to prior years.
Disclaimer: I have not yet finished my first cup of coffee...
I have found that my insistence on natural fibers for my garb has morphed over into my mundane clothing as well. Since I started doing faire, and investing in garb, I'm much pickier about the fabric in my everyday clothes too. That being said, I honestly don't think I would be any cooler in comfortable (for me) non-garb at faire than I am in garb. The lack of a skirt over walking shorts or pants wouldn't make that much difference, partially because the skirt is hiked up in the front/sides, and most of my shorts/casual pants are jeans, and actually heavier weight than my bloomers plus the skirt, so less breathable. As for the corset, I would rather be in a corset than the torture device that is a good quality bra in my size. At least the corset has a cotton lining against my skin and helps to wick some of the moisture from my skin.
There have been days that I went to faire in my shorts & t-shirt or jeans & t-shirt, and I don't think I've been any more comfortable, and actually, since I'd rather not be wagging around a purse or bag in my hands, I have at least my belt containing my pouches and tankard, so I have that weight anyway.
Eric! I challenge the mouse sneeze test! hahaha.. ( made my day! )
QuoteI mean, yes, I could wear knee breeches and some simple shoes (as opposed to boots), no weapon and a loose and open jerkin or doublet and no hat and untucked shirt... but, man... from my personal perspective that's actually far enough gone that I might as well go in 'mundanes'.
Well... shoes were actually far more common in the Renaissance than boots, and many fairs (ours included) have a no weapons policy. We get by. ;) (But yes, PLEASE don't leave your shirt untucked! I have given up with Milord, but he's not generally going for H/A anyway.)
Lady Kett, I can't stand going to Fair in mundanes! To me, it feels like showing up naked in church. (Not that I consider Fair a holy or sacred location, but the discomfort I feel is analogous!) Just... really wrong and uncomfortable. Last year we went to Comic-Con and only did costumes for one day. That was better, but we knew we'd go all out every day the next time!
Quote from: DonaCatalina on May 22, 2012, 04:49:47 AM
And it helps that I know my stuff can be trown in the washing machine and hung out to dry if it gets muddy.
YES. I absolutely can't comprehend dry-clean only costumes.
Quote from: gem on May 22, 2012, 12:06:56 PM
Lady Kett, I can't stand going to Fair in mundanes! To me, it feels like showing up naked in church.
That is a perfect description!!! LOL!
I've always wondered why the propensity of boots at faires, especially in otherwise beautifully historically accurage garb. Is it just a fashion thing or more to do with comfort/support while on your feet all day? Perhaps the more historically accurate shoes aren't as hard-wearing?
Quote from: Maithu Ruadh on May 23, 2012, 03:28:24 PM
I've always wondered why the propensity of boots at faires, especially in otherwise beautifully historically accurage garb. Is it just a fashion thing or more to do with comfort/support while on your feet all day? Perhaps the more historically accurate shoes aren't as hard-wearing?
For me it's rocks on the ground. Boots are simply more comfortable on the "protecting the foot" front. Open toed shoes, or very thin shoes would not be comfortable for me. Mary Jane type shoes just leave more room for dust.
So, I wear boots! :)
Honestly, I think the boot thing is thanks to decades of fantasy covers and idealized "medievalesque" Hollywood costumes, from Errol Flynn (http://www.theerrolflynnblog.com/Tina%20Gallery/robinhood222.jpg) to Kevin Costner.
In short, people just think they *look* cooler than shoes.
...Same deal with cloaks. In the Renaissance, people (men and women) wore coats. But we like the look of cloaks, so they've stuck.
Quote from: Maithu Ruadh on May 23, 2012, 03:28:24 PM
I've always wondered why the propensity of boots at faires, especially in otherwise beautifully historically accurage garb. Is it just a fashion thing or more to do with comfort/support while on your feet all day? Perhaps the more historically accurate shoes aren't as hard-wearing?
It is so much easier to find boots that are going to last forever and be comfortable than more period shoes. Modern Mary Janes are a dime a dozen and fall apart just as fast. Besides, boots keep feet cleaner, dryer, and free from rocks and mud.
All I know is I don't know how guys and gals can wear pirate coats in the middle of nasty humid August. I have a nice custom made doublet but sometimes it stays home if it gets too hot.
Quote from: stonebiscuit on May 23, 2012, 06:00:18 PM
Quote from: Maithu Ruadh on May 23, 2012, 03:28:24 PM
I've always wondered why the propensity of boots at faires, especially in otherwise beautifully historically accurage garb. Is it just a fashion thing or more to do with comfort/support while on your feet all day? Perhaps the more historically accurate shoes aren't as hard-wearing?
It is so much easier to find boots that are going to last forever and be comfortable than more period shoes. Modern Mary Janes are a dime a dozen and fall apart just as fast. Besides, boots keep feet cleaner, dryer, and free from rocks and mud.
http://oldesoles.com/shop/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=3
Marcie's Shoes
Vendor Description:
Handcrafted leather shoes, boots and leather accessories.
866-552-6687
sales@renboots.com
I have a pair of Dream Shoes, now made by Marcie's that is 14 years old and only had to be resoled once. Don Juan has a pair of native earth medieval slippers that are 12 years old and have been resoled once. So it makes a big difference where you buy shoes.
I wear good quality *mundane* shoes that stand up well to the rocky conditions at our fair. I started with a pair of Dexter maryjanes, and my current pair were made by Travelsmith and look almost exactly like the ones in this painting (http://pic50.picturetrail.com/VOL417/1033223/17480040/315892231.jpg). (These are one of those purchases where I kick myself for not buying a second pair, and now they're no longer made! I love my tan ones, but wish I also had a pair in black.) I do realize it's probably more difficult for men to find mundane shoes that look period!
For comfortable shoes, I wear Renboots' men's conchos (http://www.renboots.com/concho.html (http://www.renboots.com/concho.html)). They are very comfortable and durable, and much cooler than boots! Since most of my faire-going is during the hot summer, staying cool is a priority and these fit the bill. When the temps drop at the end of the season, I just wear them with socks (stockings). I should add that I tend to wear peasant garb, so the shoes fit the look well. They might not go as well with some other styles of garb.
Quote from: DonaCatalina on May 24, 2012, 04:55:56 AM
http://oldesoles.com/shop/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=3
I have a pair of Dream Shoes, now made by Marcie's that is 14 years old and only had to be resoled once. Don Juan has a pair of native earth medieval slippers that are 12 years old and have been resoled once. So it makes a big difference where you buy shoes.
To each their own. I've worn Dream Shoes and was not a fan. Unless something drastic changes, I will go to my grave declaring my love for my Sandlars.
Quote from: Eric the Ugly on May 22, 2012, 04:56:54 AM
Quote from: Amyj on May 21, 2012, 04:37:41 PM...or some garb that looks good soaking wet.
Since my girlfriend is present on these forums I'll not, I repeat, not ask for more info on what this garb looks like when soaking wet! ;D
Quote from: Amyj on May 21, 2012, 04:37:41 PMaccur-ISH
You do, however, win the thread for the new word! :D
LOL, sorry to disappoint, but the "wet" garb actaully has a wavy stripe pattern on it, so wet spots don't show....not nearly as hot as the visual I'm sure! :D But please feel free to use "Accurish"! I found it's the best I can use to describe the fact that I DO research my garb and TRY to be accurate...but honestly, I don't care enough to fret over it....and if it passes the 10 foot rule, I'm good. PLUS claiming "Accur-ISH" saves me from accuracy snarks who would want to "educate" me on the "right" way to make my garb. (I know the right way, just don't have the time, money or heavy motivation to invest right now). The "ISH" also is the part that leans towards comfort at the expense of accuracy. ;D
I started "historical" clothing with Civil War reenacting. There are no short-cuts in clothing there. You either wear full regalia or you don't participate/are shunned. It can be brutal but many groups are going for accuracy and education so it is part of the territory. I honestly can't say I was ever uncomfortable, except when the boning side channel split and one of my corset bones was digging into my hip and armpit simultaneously.
My first couple of outfits after starting faire were horrible. The chemises and skirts were fine but the bodices were terrible. I settled into ren-wench with occasional dabbles into noble-ish a la moresca and other more-or-less fantasy but pretty garb. Other then wench garb, I was rather uncomfortable because things didn't fit right or the material didn't breath well. I took a few year break from faire and went back for the first time this year in danes. I'm not sorry either. My mundane dresses are more comfortable than any faire garb I ever had. My priorities have changed. I don't go to faire for the history. Let's be honest, there isn't a whole lot of history out there. Some people try, and I applaud their effort. However, the fantastical is more prevalent. I am more interested in the atmosphere and the music now and I'm not seeking an escape from real life. When I garb again, I will go ren-hippie and call it good.
Quote from: Meagan on May 27, 2012, 09:20:17 AM
I started "historical" clothing with Civil War reenacting. There are no short-cuts in clothing there. You either wear full regalia or you don't participate/are shunned. It can be brutal but many groups are going for accuracy and education so it is part of the territory. I honestly can't say I was ever uncomfortable, except when the boning side channel split and one of my corset bones was digging into my hip and armpit simultaneously.
This is one reason I just wear a uniform, AND it's still historically accurate! ;D
But, yes, in Civil War reenacting there is no wiggle room. You might get run out of camp if you don't have it historically right. ::) Though I think the button thread counters are becoming hard to find (phew!) and with more females dressing in uniform the dirty looks and snarky comments seem to be fading. ;)
Eric, you've reminded me how uncomfortable and hot I can be at faire. I'm glad you started this thread, I never really considered pairing down a bit, but now I will. I'm a wench, but I have gotten rid of the corsets, I just could not walk around, sit, drive, etc in one of those. So I've been wearing boned bodices and they are way more comfortable.
But I could also leave a few things off of my belt. Maybe skip the leather bracers when it's too hot. Wear only 1 full cotton skirt instead of 2. Switch to short chemises. Ditch the favor rag. Invest in a lighter weight hat instead of the heavy ones I have. Hmmmm, you've given me something to think about.
Gina
Gina,
I've found (even though it may be historically incorrect) that by boning corsets in plumbing ties work just as well as steel or feather-weight boning. They give you the same effect as any other corset would for a fraction of the cost, also you can sit, bend and drive in it. All my corsets are boned in plumbing ties and they work wonders. One corset I have only has six pieces in it and it works just as well as any corset with spring steel boning and a busk. Also, short chemises are a wonderful thing, I wear them all season at faire.
I hope this helped at least one person!
This is the corset with only six pieces of plumbing tie 'boning'
http://www.flickr.com/photos/67034265@N03/7459392842/in/photostream
-Morrigean
When I make an outfit, I try and plan various ways to make it adaptable to me. Tie-on sleeves which can be removed during the day, side/back lacing which can be opened or closed a bit without ruining the look of the bodice, skirt which can be hiked up - stuff like that.
Also, I've become a huge fan of the high-wasted dress styles out there, for example Italian High Renaissance dresses. They pinch my actual waist, and leaves lots of room for my belly under it... I wouldn't want to go to a faire or party without being able to gorge! :lol:
Apart from that I wear a linen shift, a sort handkerchief linen type, which absorbs lots of moisture if/when needed. I also wear a loose pocket or two under the dress skirt, so I don't have to carry a purse all day. Last, but not least, I've bought quality Mary Janes from the brand Campers, they are super sturdy but feels like wearing slippers. With a pair of washable stockings I am set for faire!
I'm reviving this thread to ask a question. I'm opening an online shoe store with modern shoes but also a section for historical footwear (from medieval to Edwardian, and steampunk). I hope eventually to learn to make period shoes, hence the name "The Cordwainer's Apprentice." (Shameless plug here: http://thecordwainersapprentice.onlybusiness.com (http://thecordwainersapprentice.onlybusiness.com) - the shopping cart isn't operational yet but orders can be emailed.)
Most people that I talk to like the idea of historically accurate footwear, but comfort is the higher priority. More so for women as their shoes rarely even show. Rubber soles are very popular for their comfort, longevity, and water-resistance.
What do you all want in footwear? I.e., if I could get whatever you want, what would you ask for? Shoe v. boot, rubber sole v. leather sole, all brocade shoes, brocade shoes with rubber soles...anything.
Thanks! And I hope I can actually help you find the footwear you're looking for. That's really the driving force behind this endeavor; I don't expect to make money from it. I'm just hoping not to lose any :)
Well, I have a real problem with dressy flats. The back of the heel always rubs my Achilles tendon and blisters it, even with band-aids or other remedies.
The only pair of flats I've found that work for me are a pair of born mary janes which I wear to faire.
So for me, the most important part of comfort is a shoe that doesn't give me Achilles tendon blisters.
QEliz, I would want shoes that look period (really, truly historically period), and that DON'T look like everybody else's Renfair shoes. The market is already saturated with really expensive handmade boots and sandals.
Basically... less this:
(http://img2.etsystatic.com/000/0/5212926/il_570xN.145550722.jpg)
... And more this:
(http://revival.us/images/products/detail/Slashed_Tudor_Medley.jpg)
Also, our fairgrounds are rocky and dusty, and I need shoes where I don't feel every bump or stone or chunk of mulch underfoot when I walk. That's why I love my Travelsmith maryjanes--they're designed to be worn by people who are trekking all day long in various types of terrain. I see a lot of the inexpensive imported maryjane slippers sold by garb websites, but I can't imagine how they'd hold up to actual wear at Fair.
Off to explore your site!
I completely agree with Gem. I know they're considered less stylish, but I would LOVE a wider selection of comfortable, affordable, historically accurate shoes.
This site carries historically accurate (for the most part) renaissance footwear. http://www.garbtheworld.com/items/periodshoes.shtml
I purchased these, haven't worn them to a fair so I'm not sure how they'll wear. They are comfy wearing around the house, and look nice: http://www.garbtheworld.com/instock/catalog.php?item=1347&catid=Shoes
I wanted to purchase these tudor style shoes, but they've been out of stock in my size for the color combo I want: http://www.garbtheworld.com/instock/catalog.php?item=933&catid=Shoes
Gem, that's exactly what my thought has been - too many commercial modern-looking shoes, not enough more authentic looking choices.
Which leads to a couple more questions :P :
Is authenticity in materials and construction preferable to authentic looking but more comfortable options? There's a lot to be said for cushy insoles! It's not like they show.
I'm very intrigued by brocade shoes. Does anyone here have any interest in them? My research indicates that they were in style in the 17th and 18th centuries; I'm not sure if they were around in the 16th.
Well, I can't answer for everyone, but I personally prefer comfortable + authentic-looking. I know others will prefer things to be as historically accurate as possible. (I'm one of those silly folks who likes to play dress-up but still appreciates modern comforts like indoor plumbing and the Internet! LOL) There used to be a shoemaker called Lady Oren, who made the most beautiful period-inspired shoes, and they were *affordable.* She had pictures on her website of her shoes alongside period artwork showing each style.
And I know it's outside our regular period, but I for one would LOVE an affordable pair of over-the-top 18th C. brocade shoes. IMO, they're the most beautiful shoes of any era. But they're not easy to find, at all! You pretty much have to commit to making them yourself.
I had been coveting these from Victorian Trading Co for ages, even though that ridiculous heel is WAY not period, but when I finally tried them on, they were AWFUL! Completely unwearable.
(http://cn1.kaboodle.com/hi/img/b/0/0/39/3/AAAAC7LmBj4AAAAAADk0IQ.jpg?v=1236571102000)
So, yes--still on the hunt!
Gem, I agree completely! I LOVE those 18th century shoes! I'd like to learn to make something like these:
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e381/Elisa72/Pairofsilkshoes18thcentury.jpg) (http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e381/Elisa72/17thcenturybrocadeshoes.jpg) (http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e381/Elisa72/Brocadeshoes1735.jpg)
Two days after faire, my feet are still in agony. Due to my garb being a tad too long to wear without my boots with a 1 inch heel, I wore said boots to faire. I had gel inserts in them, and my feet feel as bad as they did 3 years ago before I went to the podiatrist and ended up with custom orthotics. I've had the boots for about 3 years and didn't have any problems in the past, but I will never wear those boots again.
I have bought 3 pairs of Heart & Sole shoes, which are historic looking, but are the most comfortable shoes I own, and I can wear all day without the orthotics. Bonus is they are beautiful looking as well.
So for me, comfort is the most important thing. I am still limping, and I doubt I'll ever forget the pain that I am experiencing. I decided I would never again wear anything that isn't comfortable, no matter how pretty they are!