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Faire Garb => Sewing => Topic started by: Ser Niall on August 24, 2012, 01:38:22 PM

Title: where can I find a pattern for this?
Post by: Ser Niall on August 24, 2012, 01:38:22 PM
Does anyone know where I can find a pattern that comes close to this coat, as seen on The Tudors?  I'd like to eventually make something similar, but I haven't seen any patterns that approximates it.

(http://krisgamble.files.wordpress.com/2009/11/cavill4.jpeg)
Title: Re: where can I find a pattern for this?
Post by: CenturiesSewing on August 24, 2012, 01:51:22 PM
The Tudor Tailor book has it, would just need to add length. They have a pattern set as well, http://www.tudortailor.com/hmgajh.htm (http://www.tudortailor.com/hmgajh.htm)




Title: Re: where can I find a pattern for this?
Post by: Ser Niall on August 24, 2012, 02:21:58 PM
Thanks for the link.   I didn't know what it was called, which is probably why I couldn't find a pattern.  I was searching for a tudor coat, and they're calling it a gown.

In the picture, it looks like it has a hood, or large collar.  Do you know if the tudor tailer pattern can be modified to have this?
Title: Re: where can I find a pattern for this?
Post by: CenturiesSewing on August 24, 2012, 02:37:07 PM
In the book they have the option for a curved turn back collar not just the square yoke styled one.

If you have a doublet pattern that fits you, it would not be too hard to convert that into what you are looking for if you don't mind a few mock ups.
Title: Re: where can I find a pattern for this?
Post by: Wickedvox on August 24, 2012, 03:27:46 PM
Get in the habit of making mock-ups now Ser Niall--you'll need to do it for a really good fit and when you start mixing/drafting patterns. You'll spend an equal amount of time ripping seams and recutting pieces if you don't make mock-ups (speaking from experience lol!). It's easy enough with all these super-talented people to support and guide you ;)
Title: Re: where can I find a pattern for this?
Post by: Ser Niall on August 24, 2012, 03:31:44 PM
On the advice of everyone on this board I'm already in the habit of making mock-ups.  I did a muslin of my doublet and had to adjust the pattern accordingly.  Even with this, after my doublet was sewn together I still had to take it in a little. 
Title: Re: where can I find a pattern for this?
Post by: Kate XXXXXX on August 24, 2012, 05:55:29 PM
The Royal Palaces website has a free child sized one that you could enlarge:  http://www.hrp.org.uk/HamptonCourtPalace/educationandcommunity/learning/funandgames/activities

I made this:

(http://assets.burdastyle.com/project_images/assets/000/052/717/632ed16b9920bdb6bae381557c11e201a64feba0_large.jpg?1249003368)
Title: Re: where can I find a pattern for this?
Post by: Wickedvox on August 24, 2012, 07:41:04 PM
Quote from: Kate XXXXXX on August 24, 2012, 05:55:29 PM
The Royal Palaces website has a free child sized one that you could enlarge:  http://www.hrp.org.uk/HamptonCourtPalace/educationandcommunity/learning/funandgames/activities

I made this:

(http://assets.burdastyle.com/project_images/assets/000/052/717/632ed16b9920bdb6bae381557c11e201a64feba0_large.jpg?1249003368)

Ohhhh...now *that* is gorgeous! I need that orange material for my Roma outfit I'm planning!
Title: Re: where can I find a pattern for this?
Post by: Lady Kathleen of Olmsted on August 24, 2012, 10:49:25 PM
http://store.reconstructinghistory.com/rh604-early-tudor-noble-mans-outfit.html (http://store.reconstructinghistory.com/rh604-early-tudor-noble-mans-outfit.html)

I have this pattern from Reconstructing History. This would work for the Outer Great Coat.
Title: Re: where can I find a pattern for this?
Post by: Kate XXXXXX on August 25, 2012, 04:42:10 AM
It might, but I've never had anything but disasters from their patterns!  The RP one went together like Lego. It now resides here, in their Education Room, aqlong with the green kirtle, a coif and a flat hat.

(http://www.medievalaccommodation.com/medieval-britain/South%20East/South%20East%20Pics/Ightham%20Mote%201.jpg)

http://www.nationaltrust.org.uk/ightham-mote/

Wickedvox, it's more red than orange, with lots of gold thread.  It's silk and viscose, bought in a shop in Walthamstow!
Title: Re: where can I find a pattern for this?
Post by: Lady Kathleen of Olmsted on August 25, 2012, 08:03:49 AM


I hear you on that, Kate!

But this pattern was the only one I could find. 12 years ago, SIMPLICITY had a Tudor Great coat pattern tht went to a 3XL. The pattern was out for a year only.
Title: Re: where can I find a pattern for this?
Post by: Kate XXXXXX on August 25, 2012, 08:18:42 AM
The thing I find with the RH patterns is that they take so much time and effort to adjust to fit (both the bits to each other and the whole to a human being!) that you might as well start with pencil and paper and draft your own from Janet Arnold or Susan North or Norah Waugh...  And the instructions skim over the construction details you really need and give you acres of (frequently badly researched and incorrect!) historical data.  I object to paying for this sort of mess.  At least with a Simplicity pattern you know what you are getting (usually a flavour of historical that will need a bit of adjustment along the way to make it fit, and cheap!).  At least with Simplicity, you can trace off the pattern, use standard methods to adjust to fit the customer, and usually get away with a single toile and one or two fittings.  THREE toiles for a gown, plus a complete redrafting of major pattern pices, is not an economic option for us professionals!

My advice for this garment: Draft up a standard bloke sized pattern (for, say, a bloke of 5'10" with a 42" chest) from the RP kid's one, and adjust as per customer requirement.
Title: Re: where can I find a pattern for this?
Post by: gem on August 25, 2012, 05:49:03 PM
Quote from: Kate XXXXXX on August 25, 2012, 08:18:42 AM
My advice for this garment: Draft up a standard bloke sized pattern (for, say, a bloke of 5'10" with a 42" chest) from the RP kid's one, and adjust as per customer requirement.

Kate, do you have a good tutorial on how to do that? I can draft and drape, but I am totally intimidated by grading! (I'm almost exactly the size the Tudor Tailor patterns are drafted for, but have no idea what to do with JA or others!)
Title: Re: where can I find a pattern for this?
Post by: Kate XXXXXX on August 25, 2012, 05:56:01 PM
Er...   No!  I could show you, but I haven't ever had to make instructions for doing it!
Title: Re: where can I find a pattern for this?
Post by: CenturiesSewing on August 25, 2012, 06:29:40 PM
Gem, the slash and spread method works for a number of things.. http://blog.caseybrowndesigns.com/tag/pattern-grading/  (http://blog.caseybrowndesigns.com/tag/pattern-grading/)
You could also shift the pattern in increments but that gets a bit more tedious at times.

Title: Re: where can I find a pattern for this?
Post by: Wickedvox on August 25, 2012, 08:36:52 PM
Quote from: gem on August 25, 2012, 05:49:03 PM
Quote from: Kate XXXXXX on August 25, 2012, 08:18:42 AM
My advice for this garment: Draft up a standard bloke sized pattern (for, say, a bloke of 5'10" with a 42" chest) from the RP kid's one, and adjust as per customer requirement.

Kate, do you have a good tutorial on how to do that? I can draft and drape, but I am totally intimidated by grading! (I'm almost exactly the size the Tudor Tailor patterns are drafted for, but have no idea what to do with JA or others!)

This lays out grading in 3 different methods and they have pictures: http://www.threadsmagazine.com/item/4368/making-sense-of-pattern-grading/page/all
Title: Re: where can I find a pattern for this?
Post by: Kate XXXXXX on August 26, 2012, 03:35:08 AM
Grading is fine for two or three sizes, but not from child aged about 7 to adult with 42" chest!  I find with that the best thing to do is treat the pattern as a scale pattern and draft up as if enlarging a diagram.  So, roughly, if the pattern is sized for a 25" chest, and you want a 42" chest, the pattern needs to be made 1.68 times larger.

Damn!  I KNEW someone had made a vid!  Our own Centuriessewing

http://youtu.be/lGVTgXftt9U

Title: Re: where can I find a pattern for this?
Post by: Dinobabe on August 27, 2012, 09:21:20 AM
So I find it interesting that no one pointed out that he is standing next to a car!! Total time warp!! ;D
Title: Re: where can I find a pattern for this?
Post by: Ser Niall on August 27, 2012, 02:59:56 PM
Thanks for the tips everyone.  I don't think I'm comfortable with drafting or scaling a pattern myself.  However, I did find something similar in a commercial pattern (period patterns), it says it has 3 styles of gowns.  The Henry VIII looking guy on the envelop looks like he's wearing something similar to what I'm going for, I can simply lengthen it.  http://www.amazon.com/Early-Tudor-Garments-1495-1537-Pattern/dp/B00188L4V2

Quote from: Dinobabe on August 27, 2012, 09:21:20 AM
So I find it interesting that no one pointed out that he is standing next to a car!! Total time warp!! ;D

What are you talking about?  That looks like a pretty standard 1580 model year Ford ;)
Title: Re: where can I find a pattern for this?
Post by: gem on August 27, 2012, 03:26:23 PM
Niall, from everything I've heard, those patterns aren't beginner-friendly (or friendly at all! LOL)--little to no (or confusing) instructions, pieces that are poorly drafted and don't line up well, etc. I think  you'd have better luck working with the Tudor Tailor patterns Kate recommended--either the ones in the book, or one of the specific patterns sold on their website.

It is unfortunate that there aren't more men's Tudor patterns available. The information is out there, certainly (Tudor Tailor, King's Servants, PoF, etc), but it would be really nice if there were a few more commercial patterns produced, for those of us who aren't really interested in drafting/grading (I do myself, but for Milord I just want to sew & go!). I was hoping MA would come out with a kit to match the woman's Tudor, but she did a woman's Venetian instead.
Title: Re: where can I find a pattern for this?
Post by: Ser Niall on August 28, 2012, 12:57:51 PM
Quote from: gem on August 27, 2012, 03:26:23 PM
Niall, from everything I've heard, those patterns aren't beginner-friendly (or friendly at all! LOL)--little to no (or confusing) instructions, pieces that are poorly drafted and don't line up well, etc. I think  you'd have better luck working with the Tudor Tailor patterns Kate recommended--either the ones in the book, or one of the specific patterns sold on their website.

It is unfortunate that there aren't more men's Tudor patterns available. The information is out there, certainly (Tudor Tailor, King's Servants, PoF, etc), but it would be really nice if there were a few more commercial patterns produced, for those of us who aren't really interested in drafting/grading (I do myself, but for Milord I just want to sew & go!). I was hoping MA would come out with a kit to match the woman's Tudor, but she did a woman's Venetian instead.

Yikes, I'm definitely going to stay away from that pattern then.
Title: Re: where can I find a pattern for this?
Post by: Cilean on September 03, 2012, 08:39:18 PM


Okay so I have a couple versions.  Any of these can be changed to make that Coat which was known I think as a Gabardine or Cossack, or Gown.  Remember what you saw in the Tudors was a few decades out of time, as they used Elizabethan couture.

Here is some information from Drea Leed's site:
http://www.employees.org/~cathy/cote_body.html (http://www.employees.org/~cathy/cote_body.html)
From Reconstructing History:
http://store.reconstructinghistory.com/rh611-1490s-pre-tudor-mans-gown.html (http://store.reconstructinghistory.com/rh611-1490s-pre-tudor-mans-gown.html)

http://store.reconstructinghistory.com/rh604-early-tudor-noble-mans-outfit.html (http://store.reconstructinghistory.com/rh604-early-tudor-noble-mans-outfit.html)

http://store.reconstructinghistory.com/rh615-early-tudor-1500-1520s-mans-gown-and-jerkin.html (http://store.reconstructinghistory.com/rh615-early-tudor-1500-1520s-mans-gown-and-jerkin.html)

From Tudor Tailor:
http://www.tudortailor.com/hmgajh.htm (http://www.tudortailor.com/hmgajh.htm)

I Hope this Helps!!!


Cilean







Title: Re: where can I find a pattern for this?
Post by: Orphena on September 04, 2012, 08:58:14 AM
Ser Niall,

You may want to check out your local library in the theatre section. I have had some success using theatrical costuming books (some that come with simple line patterns) to create such a coat.
Title: Re: where can I find a pattern for this?
Post by: Ser Niall on September 04, 2012, 11:43:42 AM
Quote from: Cilean on September 03, 2012, 08:39:18 PM


http://store.reconstructinghistory.com/rh615-early-tudor-1500-1520s-mans-gown-and-jerkin.html (http://store.reconstructinghistory.com/rh615-early-tudor-1500-1520s-mans-gown-and-jerkin.html)

I Hope this Helps!!!

Cilean



Thanks for those links.  That jerkin linked above looks pretty neat, might have to keep that in mind for an outfit.  The sleeves are really cool.

As for the gown, thanks everyone for your suggestions.  Lots of ideas here, I'm sure something will pan out.  This is going to be for a costume for next year's festival, so I have some time for research and prep.
Title: Re: where can I find a pattern for this?
Post by: TiaLD77 on September 04, 2012, 03:34:26 PM
Ser Niall,

dont toss the idea of the Period Patterns completely out the window, you can usually find them fairly cheap on e-bay. Now dont get me wrong they can be difficult to work with, I suggest you get a roll of freezer paper so you can trace off the pattern pieces you will need to construct your coat (that list in the instructions is usually easy to find and understand). then once you have your pieces, refer back to the tudor tailor, or JA's POF on how to construct it. Most of these garments are easy to construct its the sizing that can be the pickle, and its one of the main reason I will still purchase patterns by Period Patterns.

Just my 2 cents and now back to lurking...
Title: Re: where can I find a pattern for this?
Post by: gem on September 04, 2012, 03:57:13 PM
Wow, Tiall, that's great to hear! The sizing question is where I tend to run into issues, too--not so much the construction--so thanks for putting this pattern back onto *my* radar!
Title: Re: where can I find a pattern for this?
Post by: DonaCatalina on September 05, 2012, 04:47:25 AM
Like TialD, I use traced patterns to adjust sizing. But I use plaid Christmas paper to give me a grid. After Christmas you can find tons of it in the dollar stores, sometimes for .50 a roll.