I understand that you are the GM and not necessarily the person directly involved in marketing, but I- and many others here, hence why this is a public question- am very curious as to the thought process that goes into some of the recent marketing pushes. I have seen many more television- and heard more radio- commercials of late than I have for several years now, for which I most heartily applaud. However, the "name your baby" stunt, the immersion-breaking "sponsored by-" signs, and the Fiat contest- which is being put on by Silverleaf Resorts, a dodgy company with nearly 500 complaints to the Better Business Bureau regarding fraudulent practices and advertising, and had personnel at TRF's gate pushing underage people to sign up for a contest that is clearly for 18+ individuals- have me wondering whether these marketing actions were properly vetted before being engaged in. I have heard rumours of others, but I will speak to those only if I see them for myself. These three are bad enough, as they threaten to adversely affect TRF's reputation among some of its most loyal- and high-paying, I might add- patrons. I understand a lot of supportive messages get posted on FB, and I am also well aware that MANY critical messages are promptly deleted. Ignoring our complaints and concerns is poor business and only serves to increase the concerns we have that TRF is going downhill, fast, into a glorified Medieval Times with beer and car logos splashed all over it. PLEASE listen to me when I ask you to not let this happen, to actually listen to our concerns.
As a dual-business-owner (partner in a publishing company and COO/owner of an executive protection firm), I have seen how fast missteps that damage reputation can bring a company down. I watched two competitors go down in flames for poor reputation management, and others lost business due to marketing missteps or actions on the part of management or personnel that adversely affected how their customers viewed them. Any time I take on a client, work with another company for a joint project, or hire on a contractor to do work for us, we vet the snot out of them because we know full well our reputation is in their hands. Likewise, we do not make any marketing or advertising push or material until we know bloody well how it will be received, as that is one of the banes of businesses today- poorly-thought-out marketing strategies. I have been going to TRF since 1989, and working there- off-and-on- since 1990. I do NOT want to see it harmed by poor vetting leading to the kinds of missteps I mentioned above. Sure, the Buzz crowd would eat that sort of thing up, but they account for one or two days a season per capita. The camping clans and playtrons take such things a lot more seriously, and are some of the highest concentration of season-long ticket-bundle-purchasers out there. The Buzz crowd won't notice if such marketing ploys disappear, but we most certainly DO notice them when they pop up. You risk driving away good, high-dollar customers in favor of the slim possibility of snagging a few of the less-enlightened sorts who show up for "beer-and-boobies", as one of them so eruditely phrased it opening Sunday, for a day or two a season.
Market to the crowd you want to see the most of, scatter-method does not work with as specialized of an entertainment form as you have here. For years I have heard "do not break the immersion!" from the ED and in the participant's handbook. What I see now is "Welcome to Disneyland circa 1497. Give us money." I do not doubt TRF will continue to bring in patronage, and if you burned every one of the camping clans you would still get enough "beer-n-boobies" patrons to show up to keep it afloat. For a time. But why lose any of us at all? Why not use a little common sense and forethought before doing something that royally honks off hundreds of playtrons, who then- in turn- rage to thousands of their friends, adversely impacting your bottom line? Do you truly break even on such stunts? In my household alone, the name-your-baby stunt and the doubling-down and dismissive, somewhat insulting, reaction we got for voicing our concerns cost you over a grand in ticket sales as- other than comp tickets we got for free at Space City Con and a couple of quarter-priced discount tickets we got this spring- we did not buy the sixty-some-odd tickets our clan would have bought. We put that budget towards Sherwood instead. Hell, the ONLY reason we didn't throw those away was because many of our friends gather there. I want to make that clear- our FRIENDS, not TRF, are why we even attended this year in the first place, nor are we alone. You read these forums, and know full-well that is a fairly common opinion. I want to come back to TRF in 2013, but am not going to spend a dime on it until I know we aren't going to just throw good money after bad.
I am asking, nay, begging you to step in and do more oversight of the marketing TRF is engaging in. Use focus groups before firing things off to see how they will be received, research partners and sponsors before getting into bed with them (metaphorically), and if you must have the sponsorship signs, for the love of Mike please try to make them at least look SEMI period. Things like this will go a LONG way to assuaging the fears that a lot of us have that TRF is on the fast-track to devolving into just another commercialized theme park with no soul. Other faires exist, the customers have options. Give us a reason to continue spending our hard-earned (and in this economy, tightly-controlled) money at TRF rather than waiting a few months to spend it at Sherwood or Scarby. Keep the dream that brought us all there alive.
"Like"!!!
In reference to the white tent Win a Fiat issue:
Removing the bulk of my post because Mr. Albert has replied to this query and states the drawing will be in December and open only to TRF fans, not nationwide.
Thank you.
Post being deleted because Mr. Albert has answered the question about the drawing for the Fiat 500 which will be in December and open to TRF fans, not nation-wide.
The car will be drawn on December to only TRF Fans not a national drawing.
Breandan,
I have such a hard time talking to you because you comments an full of half truths and rumors. It's like you listen to every negative comment and turn it against me.
What have you heard about the appearance of the festival?
How do the gardens look?
What about the campgrounds and the improvements?
Have you heard one positive thing about TRF?
Glad you posted that Mr. Albert.
As a matter of curiousity, are minors eligible to win the Fiat?
Our teens were being heavily solicited to make entries, even though they are obviously underage to even the most obtuse individual.
Did they stop when the found out their age?
RE: Underage kids being solicited to sign up for car.
I'm not sure the exact word exchange after the kids went to the table. I do know the kids walked away with an entry in hand; I did not intervene as I saw they were given a lesson by Dad on not signing up.
Since the kids had entries given to them I would assume they were not asked their ages.
I will let you know.
Edit: The 15 year old, upon being asked to sign up, took form, then told the solicitor that he wasn't old enough. Apparently the solicitation stopped there as he walked away from the tent. I'm not sure if there was a sign or if it was on the entry form, or how he knew he was ineligible, but I'm content that the boy took the initiative to walk away.
Quote from: Terre Albert on October 22, 2012, 04:24:23 PM
Breandan,
I have such a hard time talking to you because you comments an full of half truths and rumors. It's like you listen to every negative comment and turn it against me.
What have you heard about the appearance of the festival?
How do the gardens look?
What about the campgrounds and the improvements?
Have you heard one positive thing about TRF?
I applauded the renovations of the Globe stage and the addition of the Barbarian Inn, complimented the campgrounds and the improvements made there, gardens look pretty much the same as last year, so no need to comment there, and yes, I HAVE posted positive things about the faire. I also point out the problems with it. If you wish to be a good, solid manager of a business- and I've been doing it for two of them for nearly ten years now- you have to take the good with the bad, maintain the former and correct the latter. I challenge you to disprove my criticisms, as they are born of first-hand experience. I will be happy to post photos of the signs next week, you have plenty of witnesses regarding the Fiat issue who have or would be willing to voice their issues with it, the company responsible and the complaints filed against them are easily found on the BBB website (http://www.bbb.org/dallas/business-reviews/timeshare-companies/silverleaf-resorts-in-dallas-tx-8000090), and many people have voiced anger that their criticisms of the Heir to the Throne (http://texrenfest.com/heirtothethrone) contest were deleted, promptly followed by the contest being buried quietly without any public resolution or discussion as to the solvency of the matter. Every single one of the issues I presented in my initial post is supported by witnesses and documentation, and accusing me of half-truths rather than address these issues directly isn't going to settle the matter.
My concern is the appearance that is created by dodgy marketing becomes one of an organization with poor oversight and a desperation for money, especially in light of the paid parking fiasco. I challenge you to fix the problems- or openly tell those of us who believe them to be problems to take a hike, either way- rather than dance around the issue.
Paid Parking Fiasco??
Why do companies have soft openings?
Were you hear to see this fiasco?
Did is cause any problems in the traffic flow.
Why is it a fiasco?
*headdesk*
Terre, in another thread on this very forum are several people- paying customers- voicing their complaints about it, and the best response you have is to try and twist it around into an attack on my credibility? You DO realize that even if I suddenly dropped the matter, the problems would STILL be there, and you would STILL have to deal with them? If diversionary tactics, ad hominem fallacies, and basing the validity of the criticisms levied on whether or not I attended this weekend when plenty of people who did have voiced the precise same thing- or worse- is the best response we are going to get from the Texas Renaissance Festival corporation, I give up.
The proper, professional response would be to address the concerns directly- state that the Heir contest was a mistake and dropped (or was considered a good marketing strategy that sparked some controversy, either way), clarify the relationship with Silverleaf Resorts and the Fiat contest, and clarify that all of the follow-up calls for timeshare marketing people who entered have been getting are not associated with TRF, explain that the sponsorship tags throughout faire will either be made more period-appropriate for immersion as they have been done in the past, or that they will have to remain as they are for legal reasons of the contract with the sponsoring partner. Address the concerns rather than just attack or dismiss the people raising them. "Were you hear (sic) to see this fiasco?" is not the kind of response I would expect from a multimillion dollar business.
As an unbiased bystander here Terre Albert seems to sound very much like a politician straddling the fence and dodging issues. Breandan While I can neither confirm or deny the validity of his statements makes it very clear where he stands. I have seen Breandan make both positive and negative commentary on TRF and from this forum I would give him the edge on credability. Mr. Albert Breandan is not the only person complaining about issues taking place at TRF yet you refuse to provide any adequate answer of any type but instead just ask questions seeking positive feedback. If it walks like a duck talks like a duck and looks like a duck then it must be a duck and just my uneducated observation but TRF has major issues which need to be addressed.
(meekly holding up my hand to say something)
Obviously management is super busy with faire going on, but it behooves us all to remember that the internet has changed forever how issues are perceived and addressed.
The initial question about preferred parking appeared on TRF FB page on Saturday, October 20. I asked here if anybody knew anything about it. The first concern was perhaps parkers were getting scammed by an ambitious non-TRF entrepreneur.
That original posting disappeared from FB, and then a new one came up today by someone who posted their approval of the preferred parking. By this time, people here were seeing the newly posted signs and discussing pros and cons, sometimes heatedly.
Mr. Albert's response came this afternoon, some 72 hours after signs went up (Friday night I assume) and about 48 hours after it hit these forums.
As for the Fiat giveaway tent, first reference was in these forums, October 9. The first in TRF FB page was I believe October 19, Friday. While there were two responses by "The King" on the TRF FB page, they were not truly responsive to the concern, with the second one being too similar to the responses received from the time-share appointment setter upon the initial phone contact. Today, Mr. Albert gave us a definite response that the Fiat will be won by a TRF fan and that the contest is not national.
Each of these issues, as well as others, could have been addressed much more quickly and with less animosity had someone in the TRF office been really reading the questions and concerns. If nothing else, a clerk could put out a little message such as "give me a couple hours and I'll check on that for you," or "we're trying it out to see if this is something some people would interested in."
Anything to avoid the appearance that concerns expressed by your customers are simply being ignored could help prevent this happening repeatedly.
The internet is the new word of mouth venue and it is almost instantaneous, limited only to how fast someone can think and type.
Well said Polly.
Thank you Terre for answering the drawing question.
As to the parking issue, I do not recall reading any mentions of traffic problems. The concern is that while parking is advertised as free, the "soft opening" caught people off-guard (people who arrived early for close spots and lost them) and did not appear to fill those lanes throughout the day (though I see you said they sold-out).
Marketing does appear to be hit and miss, from an outsider's viewpoint. I do not have the experience to comment on how "immersion" is handled by TRF or its participants but those cars out front do stick out and being asked to fill out an entry form wasn't fun.
About Nolekhan's reference to immersion into the renaissance fantasy:
The tent out front was possibly the most glaring to me. Although ignoring it with the same aplomb I ignore the sales pitch tents at Wal-Mart and shopping malls, it acts as a roadblock at the entrance, not physically but visually. The eye is drawn to that tent, instead of to the façade of the Faire. Even the toilet facilities out front have a renaissance look.
The purpose of advertising and tent sales is to draw the eye of the customer.
In this case, it is pulling the customer away from the start of the TRF adventure, which has always begun slowly in the parking lot as people shed their mundanes and don their garb, followed by cameras snapping pix as we begin the trek up the rows. The conversation changes and people who have never met start smiling at one another as they walk together.
Then, boom, it comes to a screeching halt at the white tent. In years past people sat on the edging of the courtyard, especially new visitors trying to take it all in. Many of those seats were blocked by the tent.
The illusion is dimmed.
Somehow I don't think that was the intent of the decision makers.
My only issue is that some of these things might be bringing people in, yes, but it is bringing people in that will only come in once a season. When your loyal customers, who spend their time and effort doing a LOT of mouth marketing for the faire and finding individuals who have not attended that will enjoy it and attend for years, start to leave. you lose precious numbers.... from what I have seen numbers are pretty bad this year... maybe some damage was done last year with the loyal ones?
Looking at the Beefeaters attendance numbers, opening day was low compared to the previous two years. However, week two had an amazing rain day and week three was outstanding. The overall total is even with previous years. It looks like the push for Sunday attendance is working.
Answers
Preferred Parking - a new service which allows those who want to park close the opertunity. It does make revenue for the business but we still have free parking.
revenue - TRF is almost run like a nonprofit. Almost every dollar is put back into the festival in new construction to make the place better. We are proud of that.
Heir to the Throne - design to be a shock marketing campaign, I've alway said that. It did do that and we really never thought or took it serious.
New patron - very important to grow any business. While they aren't loyal now at one time many of you weren't. They need to experience the festival to enjoy and become the audience of the future.
Longtime fans - we do many things to make your experience better like expanding the campground and making the place beautiful for you when you come.
Attendance - we continue to set records every week. Bring in customer for our vendors and growing new fans.
Sponsors - help off set advertising and attract new guests. TRF has had Rudy T on the poster in the 90's and Fuji film and Southwest Airline were some of the first big sponsors in the 80's
Everything we do has thought and planning involved. I'm not hiding the fact that this is an entertainment venue or a business but we work to make it fun for all guests.
Parking - our number one customer service complaint. We work really hard to get people in and out with a two lane road. We are doing a great job making this run smooth this year.
I'm an easy target and I understand that , it's the career I picked. I've alway offered my time to anyone to discuss TRF and I still do. Your opinions are welcomed.
Nice one. There's always a plan. ;)
Thanks for those answers Terre.
Now could you please explain how the Brazilian place fits TRF's theme?
Quote from: Fenster on October 23, 2012, 07:15:42 AM
Thanks for those answers Terre.
Now could you please explain how the Brazilian place fits TRF's theme?
To add to this one, I will not even offer my own view or regurgitate what anyone else has said on either side of the debate. I will simply add that this is the NUMBER ONE complaint I overheard again and again and again from people around me. These are plain clothes wearing people who are not on these boards so you cannot say this is anyone here having a bad opinion. The comments were either that it was highly inappropriate in a venue with families present or to the effect of, "What the hell does this have to do with the renaissance." One suggestion was to replace the Samba dancers with Flamenco dancers which is more fitting with the Spanish area, a much more conservative style of dance, more family friendly, and at least closer fitting in with the overall theme of the fair. I cannot take credit for the suggestion although I think it is a great idea.
I think the restaurant was a great idea that wasn't implemented correctly. A lot of people love the idea of a sit-down restaurant at a ren faire- look how popular the Italian place is at Sherwood, for example- but it should maintain the immersion rather than break it. That is something that can be easily fixed by next year with a few garb changes and tweaks.
watch out, they might replace the floor show with TVs
Quote from: Zardoz on October 23, 2012, 11:14:36 AM
watch out, they might replace the floor show with TVs
Transylvanian Vampires? ? ? :o :o :o :o :o
Posting this separate from the restaurant response, as this is to Terre specifically-
Thank you for explaining some of those issues. I disagree with the shock marketing tactic, but if that's what you think will work, it's your business, not mine. Understand that I am bringing these issues up to try and head problems off BEFORE they come to pass, as I see a pattern of disorganized and short-sighted management that has led to some serious disasters in the past, and I think you are better than that. You have done more positive things for TRF than I have seen in nearly a decade, and you listened to us the last time we raised this kind of hell about the campground issues and security. Thus, I was a little surprised at the ad hominem response to the concerns raised rather than responding to them in a more professional manner as you did with the ravers and campground problems. It's like talking to a completely different Terre.
I am not going to pull punches with you because I believe you have it in you to step up to the plate and beat that disorganized hive of chaos that is the front office into an organized, sane, well-oiled business. I think the preexisting paradigm of laissez-faire and shortsighted thinking- not to mention sporadic oversight- that pervades TRF as a company dragged you into the same thinking that plagued prior GMs, hence why the radical shift in your decision making and responses. I could be wrong, but that is my assessment from what I have seen and from my own experience. I have been front-row-seat for many of the mismanagement mistakes made by George (many of which resulted in lawsuits and PR nightmares, despite his best efforts to spin it) over the past two decades, and the things I am complaining about are trivial by comparison. It is not the symptom I am trying to fix, but what I see as the potential downward spiral this could take that I am trying to prevent.
Why? Because I love this faire, despite what some people seem to think. I have watched it slowly devolve into a medieval flea market- an issue I have discussed my concerns on with you privately- and it was heartbreaking. This was my first ren faire, I met my wife out there, was married there five years ago in a huge ceremony, have MANY friends out there, and even helped build parts of that festival (rebuilt the blacksmith shop with Mark nearly ten years ago, and helped a friend build their booth). I have worked on cast, worked as a vendor, worked as a demonstrator, and have lent my services as a first-response medic on numerous occasions to patron and participant alike during emergencies. I have a LOT of history, emotion, time, blood, sweat and tears invested in this festival, and I do NOT want to see it go down an ugly road where I cannot follow. We are celebrating our fifth year anniversary out there Barbarian weekend. I want to be able to celebrate our tenth there as well. THAT is why I am riding your butt so damned hard about this over relatively minor issues- to raise awareness of minor issues born of a potential larger management breakdown and fix THAT rather than the symptoms it creates; to try and prevent issues from cropping up due to a breakdown in oversight and management. Am I being too draconian? Possibly, certainly in some peoples' eyes, but I am being honest and have the best intentions in mind. I am not bashing faire to attack it, I am voicing my disappointment with where it has gone and appears to be going. If this spurs some level of improvement in the administration of the faire, then I have done my job to keep it afloat, even if it takes ticking people off to get it done.
You know one day we could be friends, as I see your passion and I hope you see mine. I do listen, I also take orders. We will continue to make TRF better and we may make mistake along the way. Some would say taking chances are for the stupid or careless. We take risks, we make changes and that can result in positive or negative results, but we learn. We alway try to improve TRF and as you can see some like it other don't and the ones who don't we listen and adjust. We still have the best faire in the world, it may be big but it's also small enough for people to feel like family as you do.
Terre: I need a like button......
Quote from: Breandan on October 23, 2012, 10:56:16 AM
I think the restaurant was a great idea that wasn't implemented correctly. A lot of people love the idea of a sit-down restaurant at a ren faire- look how popular the Italian place is at Sherwood, for example- but it should maintain the immersion rather than break it. That is something that can be easily fixed by next year with a few garb changes and tweaks.
The Rose & Crown at Scarborough is immensely popular. And they keep the atmosphere in Tudor England.
I had a drink in the Brazilian place last Sunday. It was entertaining and the dancers were beautiful- but it was a strange jolt away from the TRF experience.I did not feel like I was at faire.
As for the fee for up front parking- I was saddened when I heard this as are many of my friends. It has been a tradition to arrive up to 1 hour early to get row 3 parking and meet friends before opening. Alas- now those with money to spend get that privilege. Just my thoughts for what they are worth. The grounds look lovely and I still adore tRF.
I always enjoy TRF. None of the marketing campaigns deter my experience.
Why are we even entertaining the idea that the Brazilian show is not family friendly when the chainmaille show is just up the lane? Ludicrous...
Terre--you and your team have done a fantastic job promoting TRF for the next generation, and improving TRF (including the campgrounds) for the old timers.
Quote from: Lady Guinevere on October 24, 2012, 09:27:00 AM
I always enjoy TRF. None of the marketing campaigns deter my experience.
Why are we even entertaining the idea that the Brazilian show is not family friendly when the chainmaille show is just up the lane? Ludicrous...
Terre--you and your team have done a fantastic job promoting TRF for the next generation, and improving TRF (including the campgrounds) for the old timers.
"Like!"