Hello my helpful sewing geniuses! Well, I wore the dress many of you helped me make to the Az ren fest and my friend wore the one I made for her as well. I DEFINITELY have some improvements to make and I need some help. Here are the 2 dresses:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v633/BroadwayGal24601/ren_dress.jpg)
Mine is the gold one. So, besides the horrible hemming job I did right before we left...I have some things to fix. Any suggestions on an easy way to make the bodice smaller? The shoulder straps I can do easily because of how they were attached, but the bodice itself is too big. Laced all the way up, the top part of the back of the bodice on both dresses sticks out...that's WAYY not supposed to happen.
Also, I'd like to add sleeves to the gold dress. I'm thinking about doing sleeves like on this dress from The Other Boleyn Girl, only the sleeve would be all the gold fabric, then the little tab things would be the red fabric I have on the skirt...I think. I may change up those colors, but that's another story.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v633/BroadwayGal24601/Rp_Stuff/main.jpg)
Finally, the skirt on my friend's dress, the green one, pulled apart from the waistband when some guy stepped on it. Now, I know it can't take a lot of stress, but it should have held better than that. Any suggestions on how to put in a waistband? I've just been laying if flat against the skirt, stitching them together, then laying the band up, if that makes sense...
Help!!!
If the straps are removable, I'd just take a chunk out of the sides and re-sew up the seams. After that, re add the straps.
For the waist band, you might want to consider just attaching the skirt to the bodice and making it a full dress.
Yeah, the pattern is for a full dress, bodice and skirt together, but I like them separate...
Quote from: broadwaygal24601 on July 03, 2008, 10:42:45 PM
Any suggestions on an easy way to make the bodice smaller? The shoulder straps I can do easily because of how they were attached, but the bodice itself is too big. Laced all the way up, the top part of the back of the bodice on both dresses sticks out...that's WAYY not supposed to happen.
Yep, sounds like they are too big... While the person is wearing it, I would take the back edges and overlap them until you get the fit you want, then see how much of a difference there is in the measurement. Then, I's take apart the bodice, and remove the half that amount from each side seam. Just sew the seam, do not trim it, then try it one again to make sure you have the right fit.
The bodice may also be too long. I see this a lot in commercial patterns, when the person being fitted is shorter waisted than the pattern (and have done this myself by accident). I have also seen this, believe it or not, in professionally sewn, custom-made items. Did you also have problems with the bodice neckline scooting way up when you were sitting? If it turns out that the bodice is too long, you can trim the bottom of the bodice, making sure to keep the same contours of the bottom. I'd do this at the same time you are taking it in, so that you can adjust the overall fit.
Both dresses are quite lovely!
Firstly? I think you look very nice! Both of the gowns are done in really nice colors and I love the purple/green on your friend.
May I ask some questions?
Do you have a Corset under?
If you do can you let it out a bit?
If not? Then you will have to undo the seams and have someone with you to bring it in and fit you correctly.
Also? are you wearing a hoop of any kind? Even a corded petticoat? It will help with the shape of your gowns.
If you taper your bodice a little more like take off at least an inch to the point? It will make you look longer and give you a better fit on your skirt as well!
I would suggest a removable sleeve that is either open in the front or closed like this from Margo Anderson's Site:
(http://www.margospatterns.com/sleeves.gif)
These would better fit your gown, Figure A, B or C would be lovely on your bodice! It would just complete it so perfectly!
Cilean
QuoteDid you also have problems with the bodice neckline scooting way up when you were sitting? If it turns out that the bodice is too long, you can trim the bottom of the bodice, making sure to keep the same contours of the bottom. I'd do this at the same time you are taking it in, so that you can adjust the overall fit.
I don't remember, but my friend said there might have been some "scootage"...and she's taller in the torso than I am. So, it might be a little long. My only concern about shortening it is having it still cover the waistband of the skirt. Although, I'm going to put hook & eye things on the top of the skirt and under the bodice. That was a suggestion on this board to keep the skirt from slipping down.
QuoteDo you have a Corset under?
If you do can you let it out a bit?
If not? Then you will have to undo the seams and have someone with you to bring it in and fit you correctly.
Also? are you wearing a hoop of any kind? Even a corded petticoat? It will help with the shape of your gowns.
1. Yes, we both have on corsets, but they're too big. I made them off the corset generator site and clearly my math skills aren't the best because they're a bit big and gave us both back trouble.
2. Yeah, they could be let out, but they are too big as it is.
3. We are both wearing hoop skirts, although hers kept collapsing, so I have to go back to the drawing boards with it. But most of the day, we had on hoops.
QuoteIf you taper your bodice a little more like take off at least an inch to the point? It will make you look longer and give you a better fit on your skirt as well!
I don't understand what you mean here. Where would I taper the bodices? How do I taper a bodice?
And does anyone have any suggestions on how to strengthen the waistband so that it doesn't tear the seam as easily? The heavy fabric makes getting small, tight stitches difficult.
Also wanted to add that I'm going to make us both new corsets using the 3635 Simplicity pattern. It's an 18th C. corset, but I think if I make the back part have tabs instead of those long flaps, it would be pretty close to what I need - at least give the right silhouette. I tried using the custom corset generator and both corsets ended up too big, so I'd rather go with a physical pattern this time. Any suggestions from anyone who has used this pattern for a corset? Should I make 2 layers of canvas on the inside, then my fashion fabric on the outside?
Before you take a stab a making a corset using Simplicity 3635, you need to determine what the problem is with the corsets from the Corset Pattern Generator.
The CPG produces a corset that allows for 2 inches of squish and laces edge to edge. That is fine if 2 inches of squish matches your personal squish factor and you are making a bodice (because you generally want the bodice lacing edges to match.) It is not so good if you have an overall higher squish factor in the torso or if the bust has a higher squish factor (because the bust is a C cup or better) than the waist. Also, for corsets, you generally want a 2 inch lacing gap in the back to allow for weight fluctuations.
I took a look at the model on the cover of the pattern and I can see that her corset is too big on her because the lacing edges touch. There also seems to be possible issues with the locations of the straps on the corset. I ran into this recently with both 16th century bodies (Tudor Tailor Effigy bodies pattern) and the location of the bust points on 18th century stays (J.P. Ryan stays pattern.)
The bodice worn over the top of a corset with straps will need to be drafted very carefully to make sure that the corset does not show. It is much easier to do the necessary alterations to the corset pattern before cutting it out than to try and draft the bodice pattern to cover the corset.
The removable sleeves are a good suggestion. I have made them for mine and it works very well. I did the Loose Sleeve. I used chain stitched loops on both the sleeve and the bodice and used co-ordinating ribbon to attach. The sleeves look cute tied behind your back on hot days and they are there and ready for unexpected formal events (The Queen is progressing!)
I also made my bodice and skirt separate also for versatility, but I'm thinking of attaching them... The weight of the skirt pulls the waistband down below the bodice no matter HOW tightly I attach it. I'm thinking of attaching some flat pant fasteners to the inside of the bodice and the waistband. That way I can have it both ways:) Here is a pic that shows the sleeves...
(http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z53/vgaloosh/Valhalla0026.jpg)
Quoteyou need to determine what the problem is with the corsets from the Corset Pattern Generator.
I know what my problem was: I made it too big = my math skills are horrid! Lol. Basically both my friend and I are D+ in the bust and yet the corsets not only did the seams touch, we could have laced them each up maybe another inch. But, we wore them because they gave the look and didn't realize back pain would soon ensure because they were too big. I considered trimming about 2-3 inches off each side so that we could lace them up tight and still not have the edges meet...but that seems like a lot more work than just making a new one.
Should I instead maybe just retrace the pattern and shorten it, then remake a new one? I did well on the overall shape (which is surprising considering my lack of drawing skills), the tabs worked, ect...it's just too big.
What is your suggestion? Make a new one from the CPG or pattern or fix my old ones?
Quote'm thinking of attaching some flat pant fasteners to the inside of the bodice and the waistband.
I'm going to do that. Someone suggested it awhile ago on the boards and I'm doing that route. I also really like you're sleeves. I think I'm going to do a combo thing where they can just hang down, be detatched completely, or be buttoned to look like the Paned Sleeve (but w/ only one row where the chemise can come through) by putting a row of close buttons on one side and looks on the other side of basically a rectangle. That lets me have 3 different sleeve options. IDK though because I really like the multiple rows where the chemise can come through....hmmm.
PS: any tips or site on how to sew a strong waistband?
Are you talking about a sturdy waistband or keeping the skirt attached to the waistband?
The solution I used for both involves cartridge pleating which may not be possible in a skirt previously gathered to a waistband.
The easiest solution to prevent people from stepping on the skirts and the skirt then pulling away from the waistband, is simply to shorten the skirts. I originally had the skirts of my hunter green velveteen WAY too long. People (including myself) were stepping on the skirts before I even got inside the gate. But I simply stopped dead in my tracks and would not move until the problem resolved (well, except for me stepping on the skirts - I had to back up.) There was never a problem with the skirt pulling away from the waistband because it was cartridge pleated to a VERY sturdy waistband with nylon upholstery thread. The fabric would have given way before the nylon upholstery thread. Hmmm.... Good thing that never happened. I would have looked kind of funny walking around in just my farthingale, underskirt and with half an overskirt.
So, what do I use for a waistband? Well, originally I stuffed the waistband with commercial belting as recommended in the manuals for Margo's patterns. When I couldn't find commercial belting anymore at Hancock Fabrics, I whined about it on Margo's patterns list and Margo suggested using a double or triple layer of cotton duck cloth quilted together by sewing rows 1/4 inch apart down the length of the waistband. Really, the stiffness of the duck cloth waistband with the quilting is very comparable to that of the commercial belting. The commercial belting or the quilted duck cloth is a free floating layer inside the waistband which means it can be done to any waistband. Even as a retrofit. It does add bulk to the waist though and needs to be taken into consideration with the bodice worn over the top.
Here are a couple of tutorials for cartridge pleating:
http://www.elizabethancostume.net/cartpleat/index.html (http://www.elizabethancostume.net/cartpleat/index.html)
http://www.vertetsable.com/demos_cartridgepleating.htm (http://www.vertetsable.com/demos_cartridgepleating.htm)
I use strips of Tru-Grid, which is marked in 1 inch squares, as a stitching guide and then tear/cut away the Tru-Grid after all the stitching is done.
As I mentioned above I use nylon upholstery thread for stitching the cartridge pleats to the bottom edge of the waistband. Nylon is stronger than any other fiber so the fashion fabric is likely to tear before the nylon stitches give way.
For gathered or box pleated or knife pleated waistbands, the skirt fabric should be sewn once and then again as a security measure to prevent the separation of the skirt from the waistband. Overcasting the raw edge of the skirt and waistband join creates another line of stitching and extra security.
As always, to keep the bodice and skirt together and not gap, I sew thread loops on the top of the skirt at the junction between the gathering/pleating and waistband. I sew coat hooks near the inside bottom edge of the bodice which hook into the thread loops of the skirt.
Where does one purchase Tru Grid???
You can find Tru-Grid in the interfacing section of Joanns.
It is really a material for tracing/enlarging patterns.
About Tru-Grid (http://www.newarkdress.com/NF53.html)
Hey girls, well, I got to wear my dress again at the KC ren fest. It's cool how the more you work on it, the easier it is to wear. I just want some opinions on a few things. I did alter the corset and the bodice to make them actually fit. I put in a placket on the back so my corset doesn't show through even thought the panels don't come completely together. I also added small tabs and changed the undershirt fabric.
I did wear a bumroll, but no hoop as I explained later in the post.
I'm thinking of doing a darker red/maroon skirt and a thick (maybe 3-4 inches on the skirt portion) wide trim w/ beadwork. Also, I'm trying to decide sleeve options. Here's my dress:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v633/BroadwayGal24601/Dress.jpg)
I didn't wear a hoop skirt because mine keeps buckling and I have to fix it still, but yeah. The bodice looks kinda bulky to me for some reason...anyway, here are some sleeve options I liked:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v314/Maestro01/2008Promos/BW/BW10.jpg)
The red one
(http://www.kcrenfest.com/Performer/CharacterSurveys/2008/MaryTudor.JPG)
Or these
Which would slim down the bodice and not make it look so bulky? Could it be the corset I'm wearing that makes it look bulky?
If the hoops in the farthingales are buckling under the weight of the gowns, it means that the hoops themselves are not strong enough. Either double them up with another lot of boning inside the same casings, or take them out and replace them with stronger hooping. You might get away with just adding a stronger hooping to the bottom hoop closest to the hem and to the top hoop at the hips. Try it. If it works, you haven't wasted cash unnecessarily. If it doesn't, you can get more... :)
Fitting a corset and a bodice is something you should never try on your own. You need someone who knows what they are doing to help. After all, you cannot pin things between your own shoulder blades by yourself... ;)
The reworking of the bodice has improved it a lot. Well done.
Just a note in passing... I'm usually VERY wary of taking things in solely at the side seams. Yes, it's more work to take it in all round, but if you only work on the side seams, you can end up with armscye's that are too small and necklines that are too wide. You are better skimming a bit off each seam. You also need to look at WHERE on YOU things need taking in... Sometimes people need the back taking in rather than the front, especially if you are a C or bigger at the front.
Your *HOOP* will make the bodice look less bulky. That's part of its job--give mass and volume on the bottom to balance out the top inverted triangle.
Since the look of the era was all about achieving that conical shape--and nothing at all about slimming down the torso and waist--you just *do* get more bulk. I think my corset adds something like 1.25" to my waist measurement... add in all the other layers, and, yeah.
Quote from: Kate XXXXXX on September 23, 2008, 11:49:54 AM
Just a note in passing... I'm usually VERY wary of taking things in solely at the side seams. Yes, it's more work to take it in all round, but if you only work on the side seams, you can end up with armscye's that are too small and necklines that are too wide. You are better skimming a bit off each seam. You also need to look at WHERE on YOU things need taking in... Sometimes people need the back taking in rather than the front, especially if you are a C or bigger at the front.
Yeah, I took it in mostly on the sides, but I also took it in by moving the arm holes a bit and adjusting where the straps would be. I just kept checking to see where I needed it taken in.
I'll try the suggestions on the hoop skirt. I'll probably just start over, make a brand new farthingale and make a wider bottom "tube" so I can either get a thicker hoop or double up.
So, totally off subject, but does anyone know of a good pattern or way to make this top for a larger cup size? I tried a mockup and it was totally not working...help!!
http://www.costumersguide.com/chobit/enchantedelcapitan-015.jpg
OR
http://www.costumersguide.com/chobit/enchantedelcapitan-013.jpg
Try that, it worked for me....
I tried the link, but it didn't work.
http://www.freyaoftheshire.net/enchantedcapitan/enchantedelcapitan%20013.jpg That will work
The interesting thing about this gown is it is so totally ripped from the ball gown in the labyrinth:
http://www.costumersguide.com/labyrinth/ref24.jpg
Given that, you might want to check out ebay for some vintage 80's patterns to get an exact pattern of the gown. This one is probably too small (http://cgi.ebay.com/UNCUT-Butterick-Pattern-1980s-Formal-Dress-4634-6-8-10_W0QQitemZ140272639163QQihZ004QQcategoryZ11801QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem) but they do exist.
Other than that, try drafting the pattern on to a dress dummy if you have a good one. Or you can take an old bra apart if you have one that is on it's way to clothing death. What is wrong with the mock-up's?
The mockup just didn't seem to form to the breasts right. My cup size is bigger than my dressform, so I put a bra on it, and it just looked like fabric had been laid over it. I basically made like a wide bowtie, put a dart in each one and sewed it on the bottom panels (I can do the stuff under the bust cups, but for some reason the bust cups just ain't workin!). I'm a DD cup, so that could be part of the problem.
I thought about putting clear straps on it to help hold things up...idk...
Oh, and every time I put in darts, they come out really pointed...any way to avoid this? The seams in the bust cup in the pic aren't pointed at all...
I need to go away and write this elsewhere, with pix. I'll be back with a complete answer later...
Here is the gown picture for reference:
(http://www.freyaoftheshire.net/enchantedcapitan/enchantedelcapitan%20013.jpg)
This is a Princess cut gown without a waistline. This type of dress needs to be held up inside with a proper internal foundation attached to the gown neckline. This is the closest pattern I can find that is currently available:
(http://img.sewingtoday.com/cat/20000/itm_img/V2717.jpg)(http://img.sewingtoday.com/cat/20000/add_img/V2717.gif)
To make this fit the picture, the neckline would need to be altered and a sleeve pattern drafted. This should be possible, with care. The split skirt and decorative details would not be difficult to add to this pattern once the basic gown was made to fit.
Here are a couple of sites with instructions for making a full bust adjustment. While they show patterns that are more blouse shaped than gown shaped, the principles and methods for altering a gown pattern are the same.
http://www.cedesign.com/familyphotos/sewing/info/princessFBA/index.html
http://www.burdastyle.com/howtos/show/681
Remember that you will need to make this adjustment to the outer gown sections AND the inner foundation!
On making a gown with an inner foundation: the pattern I've suggested has full instructions for making this layer. It isn't exactly difficult, but you do need to take care, and a toile (or 'muslin') for both the foundation and the gown is necessary. Allow plenty of time. For a B or larger cup, forget the boning the pattern suggests and use spiral metal boning. Some extra help on these construction methods can be found in these two books:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/reader/1561584975/ref=sib_dp_pt/026-3538179-6462061#reader-link
http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/reader/0801987571/ref=sib_dp_pt/026-3538179-6462061#reader-link
However, if you look at the original, you can see that it was made with a dropped waistline:
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_f3mHwdbzQ3Y/RzTTB_hL0RI/AAAAAAAAE6M/xiiNwi6PM7Q/s1600/Labyrinth-138b.jpg)
For this version, no separate inner foundation should be necessary, and the gown can be based on one of these patterns:
(http://img.sewingtoday.com/cat/40000/itm_img/M5321.jpg)(http://img.sewingtoday.com/cat/40000/add_img/M5321.gif)
(http://img.sewingtoday.com/cat/40000/itm_img/M4109.jpg)(http://img.sewingtoday.com/cat/40000/add_img/M4109.gif)
(http://www.simplicity.com/assets/5006/5006.jpg)(http://www.simplicity.com/assets/5006/5006fb.gif)
Again, some neckline alterations will need to be made, and you'll need to draft those huge sleeves...
It is probably MUCH easier to manage this as a skirt and top than as a single whole gown, given the pouffiness of the skirt, which is why I have chosen these patterns.
For drafting a Leg of Mutton sleeve, try this:
(http://vintagesewing.info/1940s/42-mpd/illust/04-112.jpg)
Full written instructions here: http://vintagesewing.info/1940s/42-mpd/mpd-04.html (Scroll down about 2/3 of the way... ) Both versions of the gown have the sleeve head held to the arms with elastic. A simple casing should do this nicely. To make the sleeves stand out properly, you will probably have to interline them with dress net or organza (that is, mount the fashion fabric on a layer of very stiff net or organza and sew the two layers as one). They'll also need to be fully lined to protect you from the interlining.
Wow, so much food for thought. Thank you soooooooooooo much Kate! I already have the skirt in the sense that I found a bridal skirt for $2 that I'm splitting and then making an underlayer w/ hoops (not quite as big, but enough to get the point). As far as alterations to the neckline, I assume you mean basic trimming to make it look closer to the original.
Thanks again and I'll get to work on this asap!!!
You'll need to redraw the neckline to dip in the center front and back and go up just in front and to the back of the armpit, and you'll need to add the lower half of the armhole to the side sections, so that you have some support for the sleeves. You might find it easier to do this using the second McCalls pattern, as it has the narrow shoulder straps and the lower half of the armhole is already there.
Like using A/B of the second McCall pattern, not C, correct?
Yes. It would probably be easier to dip the front and back neckline and make the front and back lower hem pointed, and slant off the straps sections than add to the totally sleeveless ones, as you'd need to raise the under-arm section on one of those...
I did just that when I used that pattern last year to make a wedding dress top out of the bride's mum's wedding dress. Unfortunately I didn't have the chance at the end to take pix of the completed project.
...and of course I've missed all the pattern sales by like a day...great.
I'm going to try to get that McCalls one, but if I can't, what do you think about using this one? I just happened to have it, so I wanted to see what you thought. I'd still prefer to do the McCalls, but none of them are on sale and when I tried to get the simplicity one, it was sold out....
(http://www.simplicity.com/assets/2966/2966.jpg)
That should be perfectly possible.
Try this: Take a scan of, or snatch from the website, the back and front view drawings. Scale them up to a usable size for seeing details, and draw in the alterations to the top that you want to make. This will give you an idea of the alterations you need to make to each pattern piece. Extend the style/seam lines to meet the new back and front necklines. Once you have the shape fixed in your head, copy the pattern (trace onto paper), MARK IN THE SEAM ALLOWANCES, and pin the pattern pieces together. Then you need to add the extra/skim off the excess bits round the top and bottom, cut the pattern apart, add seam allowances where needed, and go on from there.
Bit like this, really... This used the above mentioned McCalls pattern:
Neckline alterations...
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3137/2944828312_ca0af82fb0.jpg?v=0)(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3215/2944828326_4a7789260a.jpg?v=0)(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3220/2944828342_0c49c2cbbf.jpg?v=0)
First hemline alterations:
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3019/2944828348_c687320d99.jpg?v=0)(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3196/2944828354_e9c34ac3fa.jpg?v=0)
The front pattern pieces ended up this shape:
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2331/2944828358_9437600ac6.jpg?v=0)
We started the McCalls pattern, and after further hemline shaping and shoulder adjustments, we ended with this:
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3009/2943993505_715a98cf01.jpg?v=0)
This was the internal structure onto which I mounted the fashion fabric. It changed again after this picture, to a raglan sleeve style as this fitted the customer and the style of sleeve we wanted a bit better... The last pix I have of the top are these two:
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3015/2944875786_1607e08ef0.jpg?v=0)(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2372/2944875792_a1e45d175e.jpg?v=0)
Neither of them shows the front. One thing to note is that I did eliminate the center front seam so that we had a larger panel of the brocade at the front. I felt that the seam up the front was one seam too many on patterned fabric. This is a sort of bastaed hybrid of draping on the stand and flat pattern manipulation that I call 'flat pattern draping on the stand'! ;D ;D
*Sorry about the missing pix - trying to get that fixed now...
Hope this has fixed it and everything is now clear!
Ok, so McCalls patterns are back on sale at Hancock Fabrics...should I go with that second one up there? Do you think that's going to be the easiest one to alter?
I think so, having done both this one and altered a strapless style to make these pink tops... (http://www.diceyhome.free-online.co.uk/KatePages/Sewing_Projects/Weddingallery/Washfd-finishedfront.JPG)