Well, I've been working on my newest gown, and its time to work out the bodice, my least favourite part. I've attempted to draft a pattern using the instructions on the Sempstress blog, but I'm not having much luck. Math was never my strong point, and I must be doing something wrong. I'm now considering drafting something using my dress dummy, but I'm nervous.
How does everyone else do this? Any suggestions? Or tutorials?
I have several old costume books - costumes for theatre, etc. I do not own the correct Janet Arnold book, nor do I have Margo's pattern for women. I have my corset pattern, my older bodice, and perhaps I could work with simplicity 3782, which I do own.
Help please!
I generally drape my own from an existing well-fitting bodice. Do you have a pair of stays that fit you well? You should have no trouble draping/drafting a corresponding bodice for them. (I haven't had much luck with the "measure here; draw a line" methods, either.) Start by taking either your best-fitting or your most similar-to-your-end-goal bodice, lay it out as flat as possible on your pattern paper, and trace around it. Add seam allowances, adjust neckline/openings/etc, and try a muslin.
Our own Centuries Sewing has an excellent tutorial on draping a bodice on her blog (http://centuries-sewing.com/research-and-tutorials/pattern-draping-tutorial-gown-or-kirtle-bodice/). She demonstrates it on a dress form, but I do it on myself. It just takes longer, and it's helpful if there's someone else in your house to put pins where you can't reach.
There's a trial and error process, where I move between flat pattern drafting and muslin draping, but if I have a good idea of where I'm going, I can usually get there in the end. I have had a couple of failures (the actual dress in Centuries's tutorial is an example; she wrote it after I totally gave up on a bodice based on the Tudor Tailor kirtle... but I have new construction theories and will start from scratch one of these days!).
I'm also going to recommend the new book Draping Period Costumes (http://www.amazon.ca/Draping-Period-Costumes-Costume-Topics/dp/0240821335/ref=sr_1_fkmr1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1369066830&sr=8-1-fkmr1&keywords=draping+historical+costumes). It's a little bit pricey, but for me it was a total revelation. I can do flat patterns, and I can drape on myself--but I've always been mystified by grading, and how to take, say, a Janet Arnold pattern and make it fit me. Draping Period Costumes is like the (very obvious) step my brain is missing in that process--how to transfer the shape of pattern pieces onto MY shape.
Good luck! I will say I have had the very worst luck when starting completely from scratch, and all my most brilliant successes have come from either tracing or adapting things that work on my body already. YMMV, but it might be worth a try!
gem! I knew you would chime in with advice I could run with!
Ok - as per your suggestion - here is what I have right now. I dressed my dress dummy up - she is padded out to my measurements, and stands shoulder to shoulder with me (so she's the correct height). Her bust line is a little different than mine - but I've worked out a squishable solution. The crazy green is so that she has arms, and it keeps all the padding in place.
As per your suggestion, I've thrown my older bodice on over the corset, and the measurments/ fit are fairly close to when I wear it. The light blue is my muslin. It's a titch long yet, causing a few horizontal wrinkles, and that front point will need to be a bit reduced, but we all know it is easier to take away than add!
The join at the shoulder will need to be rounded out. I'm going for front opening (with hooks), slightly arched front -but it may be a bit high still.
I'm planning to add puffed paned sleeve caps, but one thing at a time.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v18/ShariO/QueenElizabeth1/IMG_5731_zpse89c1336.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/ShariO/media/QueenElizabeth1/IMG_5731_zpse89c1336.jpg.html)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v18/ShariO/QueenElizabeth1/IMG_5734_zpsac8ebc15.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/ShariO/media/QueenElizabeth1/IMG_5734_zpsac8ebc15.jpg.html)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v18/ShariO/QueenElizabeth1/IMG_5735_zps1803f4fd.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/ShariO/media/QueenElizabeth1/IMG_5735_zps1803f4fd.jpg.html)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v18/ShariO/QueenElizabeth1/IMG_5736_zps4c1629ad.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/ShariO/media/QueenElizabeth1/IMG_5736_zps4c1629ad.jpg.html)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v18/ShariO/QueenElizabeth1/IMG_5737_zps04d8a18c.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/ShariO/media/QueenElizabeth1/IMG_5737_zps04d8a18c.jpg.html)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v18/ShariO/QueenElizabeth1/IMG_5738_zpse99a2c92.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/ShariO/media/QueenElizabeth1/IMG_5738_zpse99a2c92.jpg.html)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v18/ShariO/QueenElizabeth1/IMG_5739_zps865290cc.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/ShariO/media/QueenElizabeth1/IMG_5739_zps865290cc.jpg.html)
Popping my head out of Middle Earth for a moment....
Orphena looks like you are off to a good start with your blue mock up, one extra thing you might want to do is adjust the darts so the muslin is smoothed out, that way it will be easier to mark them for pivoting them out later. :)
It is hard for me to see if you marked it but how high is your bodice back going to be? If it is down to where the end of the white shows in the back that is too far down, you will be fighting to keep the sleeves up.
Hey Centuries! Thanks for your tutorial! The back is actually quite high - the white is part of how I'm adjusting the bustling, so it can be disregarded for this project. I was thinking of keeping the neckline right up where my gold bodice hits - less area to sunscreen, more support if I ever get a wired collar built, or want to add a ruff.... You can see it marked in pink on the shot of the shoulder seam from the top. Do you think that will that work?
If I am seeing the right mark, that should be plenty high enough. :D
Ok...so, once I have that dart nice and smooth...how do I get rid of it again?
I have a tutorial for that! ;D
http://centuries-sewing.com/2012/12/02/kirtle-sew-along-measurements-and-adjustments/#more-2782 (http://centuries-sewing.com/2012/12/02/kirtle-sew-along-measurements-and-adjustments/#more-2782)
Scroll down to "Removing that pesky dart".
If my tutorial doesn't make sense here another one:
http://www.modehistorique.com/research/eliminating_darts.pdf (http://www.modehistorique.com/research/eliminating_darts.pdf)
Quote from: CenturiesSewing on May 21, 2013, 06:34:23 PM
I have a tutorial for that! ;D
http://centuries-sewing.com/2012/12/02/kirtle-sew-along-measurements-and-adjustments/#more-2782 (http://centuries-sewing.com/2012/12/02/kirtle-sew-along-measurements-and-adjustments/#more-2782)
Scroll down to "Removing that pesky dart".
If my tutorial doesn't make sense here another one:
http://www.modehistorique.com/research/eliminating_darts.pdf (http://www.modehistorique.com/research/eliminating_darts.pdf)
Gob*smacked... Your instructions for removing a dart were... AWESOME! And way easier than any other instructions I've read...
(sorry, just had to chime in!)
Using a Drape can be a very good tool for Bodice drafting.
Often using a Corset generator works as well. I used that to draft the bodice for the Venetian Noblewoman I did last year for Lady Kett. I had made a mockup for her to try on and it fit nicely. The double I cut out for me was what I used for the actual pattern. This particular project was bascically all had drafted. The Process for the Ladder Lacing was from the very talented Jen Thompson of Festive Attyre.
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/426554_10150706265046280_206952686_n.jpg)
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-frc1/431350_10150706265621280_1698925875_n.jpg)
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/425981_10150706266546280_381472795_n.jpg)
There are some excellent Corset generators on the Elizabethan Costuming Page that was very helpful as well as those by Janet Arnold.
Centuries..your tutorial rocks! Thank you! So nice to have such resources available! Gold star from me! :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D
So, next question... Just how lined does my bodice need to be? I see some people adding boning, some people adding canvas, some a layer of "nominal" lining that doesn't'tseem to do all that much... My. Old bodice was completely unlined - but there was a strip of boning next tithe lacing holes, other than that, no structure added.
My corset is fully boned - with steel boning, so I don't really need a lot of other support, I feel. If you all disagree, however, I'm open to persuasion!
The reason I ask is that I'm about ready to sew up my first mockup, and leaning towards using sheeting, at this stage of the game...
The lining will prolong the life of the garment and help protect against wear, tear, distortion, etc. My corset (avatar photo) is unlined--it's just a layer of linen + one of canvas + the boning and binding. Two little layers. It's held up really well for 4 seasons now! My kirtle (from the same pattern) is four layers--2 boned canvas inside, the damask fashion fabric outside, and lightweight quilting cotton for the lining. I think it's really up to you, but I like having a nice finish inside and out. If I were on a super deadline and had a lot of other things to finish... I could probably be convinced to forgo a lining on an otherwise well-constructed gown. (I have never lined a skirt.)
Seconding what Gem says about bodice lining, it also adds another layer to help absorb sweat and gives a tiny bit more padding between you and the boning.
Ok, mockup one is done! I managed to lace myself into my corset, and got the mockup on. I took afew pics in my dingy bathroom, then added a few pins to tuck in the front a bit. My hubby came home in time to help take a few better pics (and help me back out of the corset!)
Some things I noticed... the skirt fits (phew!) but can tend to gape a little bit at the back due to the weight of the back pleats. I may need to add points to fix this, but things may also adjust once I get a proper hook on the skirt.
With the corset, I overflow - there is not much I can do about it - but I'm hoping that the bodice straps will help - they do in my gold bodice.
Ok, here are the pics... help me out ladies!
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v18/ShariO/QueenElizabeth1/IMG_5776_zps6f6d9ca9.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/ShariO/media/QueenElizabeth1/IMG_5776_zps6f6d9ca9.jpg.html)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v18/ShariO/QueenElizabeth1/IMG_5777_zps323f781f.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/ShariO/media/QueenElizabeth1/IMG_5777_zps323f781f.jpg.html)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v18/ShariO/QueenElizabeth1/IMG_5786_zpsb416f18b.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/ShariO/media/QueenElizabeth1/IMG_5786_zpsb416f18b.jpg.html)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v18/ShariO/QueenElizabeth1/IMG_5792_zps0e6ba3f2.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/ShariO/media/QueenElizabeth1/IMG_5792_zps0e6ba3f2.jpg.html)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v18/ShariO/QueenElizabeth1/IMG_5794_zps9598a959.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/ShariO/media/QueenElizabeth1/IMG_5794_zps9598a959.jpg.html)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v18/ShariO/QueenElizabeth1/IMG_5795_zpse08f9261.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/ShariO/media/QueenElizabeth1/IMG_5795_zpse08f9261.jpg.html)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v18/ShariO/QueenElizabeth1/IMG_5796_zps72c6a02a.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/ShariO/media/QueenElizabeth1/IMG_5796_zps72c6a02a.jpg.html)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v18/ShariO/QueenElizabeth1/IMG_5797_zps92b3a3a3.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/ShariO/media/QueenElizabeth1/IMG_5797_zps92b3a3a3.jpg.html)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v18/ShariO/QueenElizabeth1/IMG_5798_zps9033224b.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/ShariO/media/QueenElizabeth1/IMG_5798_zps9033224b.jpg.html)
You are off to a good start! :) Here are few things to try out.
Armscye needs to come up, it is far too low. If you attach sewed in sleeves to it you would not be able to lift your arms, also that will help control the side overflow.
Bit harder for me to see, but I'd also add about an inch to an inch and a half + seam allowances to the top of the shoulder straps and blend it down into the armscye. If you lift your arm up, where your arm and shoulder meet and crease should be where the outer edge of your shoulder strap hits when your arm is down. This is something I always have issues with myself.
The front darts look like they are pinned off grain which is causing some of those wrinkles, with the corset on you are smoothed out, so you may be able to get away with unpinning them and smoothing the excess fabric into the side seam.
The back looks like it is too long just under the shoulder blade area, you can pinch out the excess horizontally and pin it out to see if it fits better.
Thanks for your feedback, Centuries!
Ok, here is draft #2. I put in place the changes you recommended, as well as reducing the front point down. I did not quite understand what you meant about "add about an inch to an inch and a half + seam allowances to the top of the shoulder straps and blend it down into the armscye. If you lift your arm up, where your arm and shoulder meet and crease should be where the outer edge of your shoulder strap hits when your arm is down"... so if you could elaborate, I would appreciate it! I do feel that the shoulder strap may be alittle wide across the shoulder - if I remove some fabric, I would take it from the shoulder side, not the neck side - I'm thinking perhaps 3/4 of an inch?
I did not add any seam allowance anywhere except at the sides and shoulder - I was planning on doing that at the final draft. Imade sure to cut the front along the selvedge, but I still had difficulties getting it pinned nicely in the CF. Hopefully with a few layers, and my slightly thicker gown fabric, it will be a bit more cooperative.
There are 2 sets of pictures - the first is un altered, the second set is after I had m'lord add a few pins - but as he doesn't sew, it was a little bit of a challenge. ONLY ONE SIDE IS PINNED. No skirt this morning.... it was too early - I guess you all now will see my fabulous jammies - which I assure you are not riding low - my corset gives me some definite creases down my back!
I really appreciate your help - my mom sews, but she's a good hour away, and oddly, this is a faster way to fit!
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v18/ShariO/QueenElizabeth1/IMG_5799_zpsa396708b.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/ShariO/media/QueenElizabeth1/IMG_5799_zpsa396708b.jpg.html)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v18/ShariO/QueenElizabeth1/IMG_5800_zps2c40ef23.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/ShariO/media/QueenElizabeth1/IMG_5800_zps2c40ef23.jpg.html)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v18/ShariO/QueenElizabeth1/IMG_5801_zps2f359b9a.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/ShariO/media/QueenElizabeth1/IMG_5801_zps2f359b9a.jpg.html)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v18/ShariO/QueenElizabeth1/IMG_5802_zps8d3002c6.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/ShariO/media/QueenElizabeth1/IMG_5802_zps8d3002c6.jpg.html)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v18/ShariO/QueenElizabeth1/IMG_5803_zps89a01136.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/ShariO/media/QueenElizabeth1/IMG_5803_zps89a01136.jpg.html)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v18/ShariO/QueenElizabeth1/IMG_5804_zps4080b5ea.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/ShariO/media/QueenElizabeth1/IMG_5804_zps4080b5ea.jpg.html)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v18/ShariO/QueenElizabeth1/IMG_5805_zpsd18fdeaf.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/ShariO/media/QueenElizabeth1/IMG_5805_zpsd18fdeaf.jpg.html)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v18/ShariO/QueenElizabeth1/IMG_5806_zps5d5166c1.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/ShariO/media/QueenElizabeth1/IMG_5806_zps5d5166c1.jpg.html)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v18/ShariO/QueenElizabeth1/IMG_5807_zpsf62970ee.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/ShariO/media/QueenElizabeth1/IMG_5807_zpsf62970ee.jpg.html)
And now for those that show the pinned / altered version
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(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v18/ShariO/QueenElizabeth1/IMG_5809_zpsc6deef3e.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/ShariO/media/QueenElizabeth1/IMG_5809_zpsc6deef3e.jpg.html)
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Orphena, hopefully these will make sense, (very tired right now). I'll take some photos later today to try to explain the shoulder point/armscye placement. But looking at the second mock up photos your armscye area has lots of fabric in it, so you won't need that adjustment.
(http://centuries-sewing.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/frontstrap-adjustment.jpg)
(http://centuries-sewing.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/armscye-adjustment.jpg)
Snip in around the back of the armscye as well where it is folding.
You back panel is still a bit bubbled, but by how much seems to vary on how you are standing. In one photo you have your hands on your hips, in another you look like you are standing straight. So it is hard for me to read the wrinkles. So it will take some tinkering with. The back of the bodice waist line is now pretty much hitting where your natural waist is so that is good. You might try putting the back darts back in to temporarily smooth things out.
Here are a few photos from my kirtle tutorial (that is still wip) but it might help m'lord understand what the mock up needs to look similar to.
My mock up has 5/8th seam allowances included, which have not been trimmed into so there is a bit of wrinkling.
(http://centuries-sewing.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/mockupbodicefront.jpg)
(http://centuries-sewing.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/mockupbodiceback.jpg)
Draft three is drawn up, but I'm not wriggling into my corset alone (there is always a moment of panic when it is on its way over my shoulders, and still covering my face...what if I get stuck like this!?!).
Assuming I get this one to fit without major wrinkling, all I would need to do is add seam allowance, and off I go, yes?
Lining, yes. Outer fabric, ready to go. Should I do a layer of something extra for structure? I think I will plan on a length of boning down the centre front to stabilize...
Pictures tonight when m'lord returns. In the mean time, I'm working on accessories and the like!
Get some rest, tired lady! :D
You should be good to go once the fitting tweaks are done, if you are doing sew in sleeves I'd baste them in to test fit now.
I'd add a layer of canvas or duck cloth to you bodice, the corset is doing the reshaping but that extra layer will help smooth things out and you can attach boning cases to it.
Mockup #3. I think this is the most mockups I've done, and I'm not sure we're there yet!
I tried to take a shot of each view with my hands at my sides, and then my hands on my hips. For the side shots, there is one with my arms up as well.
I managed to get a hook on my skirt, so one more bar, and it is done, except for the special decoration pieces that I am waiting on the mail for...
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v18/ShariO/QueenElizabeth1/IMG_5814_zps6ad62682.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/ShariO/media/QueenElizabeth1/IMG_5814_zps6ad62682.jpg.html)
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(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v18/ShariO/QueenElizabeth1/IMG_5821_zps1d928bfb.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/ShariO/media/QueenElizabeth1/IMG_5821_zps1d928bfb.jpg.html)
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(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v18/ShariO/QueenElizabeth1/IMG_5823_zps6ced4705.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/ShariO/media/QueenElizabeth1/IMG_5823_zps6ced4705.jpg.html)
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This one is to illustrate the bump created by my skirt waistband - I am hoping the canvas, lining, and boning in the front edge help sort it out!
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v18/ShariO/QueenElizabeth1/IMG_5825_zps8de77468.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/ShariO/media/QueenElizabeth1/IMG_5825_zps8de77468.jpg.html)
Thanks CS!I owe you a nice beverage if I ever get out to your home faire! (Which one is that?)
I think we are very close! ;D
You need to trim down just tiny bit more at the under arm, and along the back of the arm, you still getting a few folds in the fabric where the fabric is binding when your arms are down. Just do half inch snips into where it is folding and that should take care of it. The third photo with your hands on your hips, bothers me in the armhole area, is that excess fabric that is loose and sticking out? if you pin it into a small dart how does it feel?
The back fold, I just realized that is about where the top of your corset ends? A higher backed set of stays would help with that but I know that is outside the scope of your current project. So I'm going to suggest running some boning along the back in a fan shape.
Did you adjust both shoulder straps? Or it might just be one came unpinned in the photos.
The waistband bump, I would move where the waist starts to drop down forward a little.
If you decide on doing one more mock up, I'd do it in a heavier fabric like duck cloth just to get an idea of how the final product will fit.
Thanks for the drink offer! I'm all the way down in Tampa, FL so that may not be possible short of teleportation. ;)
Huzzah, O! Looking great! (Your wig came out fabulous, as well!)
QuoteIf you decide on doing one more mock up, I'd do it in a heavier fabric like duck cloth just to get an idea of how the final product will fit.
I totally second this. I think some of those tiny wrinkles will smooth out in a heavier fabric.
Only THREE mockups? Sheesh. I should be so lucky! LOL
So, I was doing some searching through the forums before I attempt mockup # 4 in a heavier fabric, and came across a number of posts that suggest a curved front. Now, I am disinclined to fiddle with the pattern too much more, but it was a pain to get that front edge pinned closed - so much so that I was considering basting the front edge closed on tomorrow's mockup. What do you think - should I bother? (Yes I know, I'm overthinking again! :D)
I also found a link from a forum member (sorry I don't recall who!) who pointed to this well done demo of draping the pattern - but it requires 2 people - the model and someone who sews. It is an alternate way than Centuries suggested, not including darts, but I thought I would include it here as well - http://www.mathildegirlgenius.com/DressFitting/DressDemo.htm (http://www.mathildegirlgenius.com/DressFitting/DressDemo.htm)
Centuries was kind enough to let me know that she might not be available for a quick answer for a little while, so I'm hoping some you quieter people peeking at this thread will chime in!
I lovelovelovelovelove my curved front gown (which I draped on myself!), and it should *absolutely* be on your to-do list someday... but not for Queen Elizabeth. The point of the curved front opening or seam is to, well, curve. It hugs you snugly beneath the bust and gently lifts the bust into a lovely soft rounded shape. See my dress diary (http://elizabethcbunce.wordpress.com/historical-costuming/16th-century-middles/italian-working-class-ensemble/) for comparison photos.
For Elizabethan bodices, you want a cone--as flat from the bust point to the waist as your boning can make you. Your stays will do the majority of the shaping; you just need your bodice to echo that basic silhouette.
At this point, because you're SO CLOSE, I would lay your bodice muslin on top of your stays and compare the shapes. You might get a different view of how to pinch/draft out the little darts & tucks you've been taking during the fitting process. (I have to admit that I am a total dart renegade; I pin them out in fitting, and then just act as if they don't exist when I transfer the pinned muslin to the new pattern. It can alter the shape of parts of the flat pattern--frex, pinning out a dart in the armscye will give it an L shape--but it's not noticeable in the finished bodice. HOWEVER, you need sleeves, so you don't want to fiddle too much with your armscye if you're going to set them in.)
Oh, to answer your first question: When I move from muslin to canvas for fitting my bodices, I replace the pins with lacing. You can do temporary lacing strips or quick eyelets (ie, poke holes with your awl you can lace through)--or just sew yourself into it with a big tapestry needle and some heavy string. (It looks like I actually did machine-sewn eyelets on one of mine--how ambitious I was! LOL)
Is your gown going to open in the front or the back? If it's not going to lace up the front (like your mockup), I would make that adjustment in a mockup ASAP, because for some totally inexplicable reason, moving the opening can totally throw off the fit. My pink stays fit me well, but when I used that same pattern to draft a side-back lacing kirtle, the bodice was suddenly HUGE on me! I ended up chopping off like 2" per side to get it to fit again.
Good luck! It's fun watching this project come together. (Says the Queen of Mockup Fatigue! LOL)
Thank you Gem!
Yes, I figured the answer would be "no" but I had to double check. I'm actually glad the answer is no!
My corset does not have straps, so I cannot see it being too helpful for the arm hole - but it may help with the side seam a little. I am really hoping the thicker fabric will help.
For sleeves - my plan is to make paned shoulder "caps" that cover about as much arm as a t-shirt sleeve, with straight sleeves under them that attach to the gown via the button and hair elastic method that I am keen to try out. I am planning the anchor points (the buttons) to be hidden inside the shoulder caps, but actually on the gown.
I am aiming for an earlier elizabethan feel, as I prefer the look, and I can get away with portraying an age of 30ish character, and not have to deal with the wheel farthingale either. Although I like the huge mutton sleeves, I'm not quite ready to go there for this year!
And yes, the bodice will close in the front - but likely with hook and eyes, rather than lacing. I find when I am dressing, my current bodice is such a pain to lace up, and if my corset isn't tight enough, I need to take an awful lot of layers off to fix it all!
On the stays: yes, I'd say higher all round is the way to go. It should come across the back at least as high as your armpit, and duck under the arm... And then come up again over the bust. Only Victorian corsets are that low. And add a little more in the front width at bust level so there's no overspill there. The busk up the CF should give you that straight line up the front. But the bust has to go somewhere, and if you don't accommodate it, you get spillage! ;) Remember that the aim of the stays is to shape, not to reduce!
Once you have that smooth cone effect, it'll be MUCH easier to get the bodice smooth.
It's all looking pretty good so far. :)
Well, here is what I've been working on... a few notes before the pictures -Yes, it WILL close -I just don't have the hooks on yet. The shoulder seam is also not sewn as of yet. There is a layer of cotton canvas, with boning along the back and the center front, and the lining, and the gown fabric.
My biggest concern is just how tight it is under the arms - do you think lowering that by an inch will affect the smoothness of the bodice?
I am very pleased with how smooth it is - and that the back meets the skirts so nicely!
Trim will be done by hand, but may consist of pearls etc rather than a lot of sewn on trim.I'm less and less happy with the black trim on my skirt, but I cannot remove it at this stage - too much else to do!
Thanks for your help and feedback!
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v18/ShariO/QueenElizabeth1/IMG_5827_zps0f04cd7d.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/ShariO/media/QueenElizabeth1/IMG_5827_zps0f04cd7d.jpg.html)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v18/ShariO/QueenElizabeth1/IMG_5828_zpsc662f5a5.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/ShariO/media/QueenElizabeth1/IMG_5828_zpsc662f5a5.jpg.html)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v18/ShariO/QueenElizabeth1/IMG_5829_zps77b16e16.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/ShariO/media/QueenElizabeth1/IMG_5829_zps77b16e16.jpg.html)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v18/ShariO/QueenElizabeth1/IMG_5830_zps54e85d2d.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/ShariO/media/QueenElizabeth1/IMG_5830_zps54e85d2d.jpg.html)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v18/ShariO/QueenElizabeth1/IMG_5831_zps0ae2e93d.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/ShariO/media/QueenElizabeth1/IMG_5831_zps0ae2e93d.jpg.html)
Ooh! It's looking really nice, Orphena!
I have a question: the bones that show in the back, going in a V-ish shape: are they on the bodice or your stays? Because I don't think you need them if they're on the bodice. The fit is looking so good, that if you have the time & the inclination to do another fitting without the bones you might see that the bodice looks just fine without them.
If they're on the stays, you could minimize the bumpiness by adding another layer of canvas to your bodice. That is, if the bumpiness bugs you. I have a personal peeve about bones showing thru fabric, but that's just me. And it could be the camera playing tricks with the sheen of the fabric, so the bones might not show so much in person.
Great work & I just Looooove the color on you!!!
So, I did end up adjusting the arm scye, pulling it down about an inch and a half, and smoothing out the curve at the back and front. The way it was just wasn't going to be comfortable. While i was in there, i also added a layer of cotton batting over the back to cover the bones...thanks for the catch, molly! I'm working on shoulder puffs today, using a pattern from Tudor tailor.
I have a question about trim... Do you think I can get away with NOT adding trim to the bodice? I have more metal filigree bits (although some are small ), but I'm hesitant to add big bold black and gold trim to the nice clean bodice! If it was just gold, I could do it, but the skirt has black and gold, and I cannot see a way to carry on the theme without the black... Help me out!
I DO have a nice long strand of pearls to drape all over the bodice, and a metallic gold standing open ruff...
Can you "get away with not adding trim to the bodice"?
If you were playing anyone else but QEI it probably would be OK...but since you're not, I'd say add the trim. Baste in on if you think you won't like it later on & won't be using the gown for Lizzie again. It won't detract from the fit, and if you place it strategically, it will complement it.
Remember: Bessie liked her BLING.
I actually just used the last of my trim on the sleeve panes... Didn't quite have enough as it was! I still have jewels and such to add bling, just not my pretty gold trim. I will try to get more, but I doubt the place re ordered yet... So I guess Bess may have to slum it a bit for right now!
Where did you buy the trim? Do you have enough time to order some online if we can ID it?
I don't think it would be a problem to mix/combine trims (ie, use a different trim on the bodice than on the skirt/sleeves). It will add fancy layers, and as we all agree: the more the better! And the bodice is the focus of your costume (besides your beautiful face!), so it can have its own trimwork (you could even make some with the scraps from your forepart).
Here's a nice shot (is this Syrilla?!) that shows the layering of different trims to great effect:
(http://www.renaissancefairepictorial.com/tn06/images/port/queene.jpg)
The trim across the top of the bodice echoes the guards at the bottom of the skirt--but it's not identical, and the guards at the bottom are different than the trim along the skirt opening. I also like how she didn't follow the opening of the bodice; a better chance to work with meagre scraps!
When do you debut, Orphena?
I need to be able to wear the gown by this coming Friday. I have Tuesday off, but I may have difficulty seeing for a few hours, as I am getting drops put in my eyes by a specialist.
I think I have worked out a solution, that doesn't involve the black trim, and uses the last bits of my gold trim (the non lace one)
Excuse the pins, but this is where I am heading...
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v18/ShariO/QueenElizabeth1/IMG_5842_zps9b0b5a4a.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/ShariO/media/QueenElizabeth1/IMG_5842_zps9b0b5a4a.jpg.html)
Detail of the shoulder: (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v18/ShariO/QueenElizabeth1/IMG_5841_zpsdf9ab8f1.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/ShariO/media/QueenElizabeth1/IMG_5841_zpsdf9ab8f1.jpg.html)
And, of course, I will center this on the back:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v18/ShariO/QueenElizabeth1/IMG_5840_zps299495f2.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/ShariO/media/QueenElizabeth1/IMG_5840_zps299495f2.jpg.html)
Lookin' good!
May I suggest an alternate placement for the bling on the back? Not only would it be uncomfortable to lean back in a chair & have the jewels poking into your back, but you also don't want people to be pointing at your back & saying oooh! ahhh! You want them looking at your front and saying OOOH! AHHH! ;) It invites more interaction. If you want some decoration in the back, get a large jeweled decorative pin and a long strand of pearls and use the pin to secure the pearls to the back of your bodice. It looks more period and it's functional, too.
But anyway, my suggestion is to move the bling to the front along the top edge of your bodice. I forget what it's called...billiments? No, I think that's for a headpiece. Anyway, something like this:
V
O---O---O---O
Where the Os are the yellow jewels, the --- are those gold filigree pieces & the V is your cleavage. That way, the two jewels you have right now on the front won't feel so lonely & you'll get more bang for your buck!
ETA clarification about brooch placement: The brooch would be pinned roughly where the first cluster of pearls is on the back of the bodice in your picture or just a teeny bit lower. The pearls would be worn as a "normal" necklace, only that the back where it touches your neck would be secured by the brooch. I hope that makes sense...
That looks great! Totally agree w/Molly about the jewels (and got a giggle out of "the V is your cleavage!").
I won't bother you now, but when you have a chance, I'd love to know how you did the paned upper sleeves--I love the bronzey/greeny/gold silk lining! I'm planning something similar for this year's Saxon gown, and hadn't quite figured it out yet.
Thanks for your input, ladies!
Molly - loved your diagram! The back- I think it will be okay - quite honestly, there are rarely chairs with backs at faire, and with my corset, there is not a lot of leaning.... I just want to add some interest on the back as well!
Gem - I will type something up when I'm at work about the sleeves - I want to keep a record anyways!
Ok - so the hooks need some moving - and there is no corset on the mannequin, or I need a modesty panel, but how about this for trim / gem placement :
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v18/ShariO/QueenElizabeth1/IMG_5846_zps6dc6014a.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/ShariO/media/QueenElizabeth1/IMG_5846_zps6dc6014a.jpg.html)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v18/ShariO/QueenElizabeth1/IMG_5845_zps0d915a87.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/ShariO/media/QueenElizabeth1/IMG_5845_zps0d915a87.jpg.html)
LOVE it!!!
A modesty panel would be a great idea. It doesn't have to be any more complicated than a tube of red fabric that's got enough stiffening inside so as to not shift around on you.
Something I've done to hide hooks (and you can alternate them for added security, btw) is to place them so that even with the pull there will be no gap, then go ahead and really secure them with strong hand stitching through all layers, THEN place your gold trim on top to hide the hand stitching.
You're almost there!!!
Sleeve Caps / Puffed / Paned Shoulders.
I adapted a pattern out of Tudor Tailor to start this project – it is part of the "Fitted English Gown" project in the book. I built the Sleeve Caps as separate pieces from the gown, but they will be permanently attached to the bodice. All in all, this took me a VERY full day to do just the sleeve caps. Sorry for the novel – but details take words – I was in too great a rush to take pictures as I went – so sorry – next time, perhaps!
I started by drawing out the basic shape of the sleeve foundation on square inched graph paper. I recently bought a French Curve, which helped keep my curves nice and smooth – but quite a lot of moving the curve was required to get the curves close to the pattern in the book. (So don't think you are just going to put the ruler down, draw a line, and be done!). I adapted the pattern for both length (as my armhole is a little larger than theirs) and height (As I wanted a bigger sleeve cap). I cut that piece out of lining (Cotton) and a layer of cotton canvas – for sturdiness. I then put 3 lines of boning casing on the canvas running vertically from bicep edge to shoulder, and one across them from front to back. (This is illustrated in the book – just don't stitch across any of the vertical casings as you attach the horizontal one!). I put the shorter bones in right away (and stitched them closed), but did not insert the long (front to back) one yet.
Going back to the pattern, I traced out another copy, extending it up a good inch, and down about 2 (This actually made my panes longer than I needed, and I ended up trimming a few inches off the bottom – but I would say to start too long, and cut down is still a better idea than being too short!). I also added about 2 inches of width. From there, I split the pattern into 5 panes (It may have been wiser to copy this at this time, but everyone works differently!), simply by drawing angled lines through the pattern. I noted on my pattern to include some seam allowance when cutting, marked the front edge of each pane, and numbered the pieces. I cut 2 layers of fashion fabric for each pane – 20 pieces of fabric in all. I added a line of trim down the center (ish) of the top of each pane, matching where they began and ended to it's mate– making sure that I had a left and right for each pane – this is quite important – I stacked my panes up – so pane number 1 was a stack of 4 pieces of fabric all aligned, wrong side up, right side up, wrong side up, right side up. I put trim on the TOP pane (Wrong Side up), and the BOTTOM pane (Right side up) Then I sandwiched my lace trim in the seam allowance (Which I obviously ran out of, as panes 2 & 4 on each sleeve didn't get any trim!), and sewed the panes up (leaving the top and bottom open), pressing each so the edge was crisper. I pinned the panes to the foundation (with the lining underneath) keeping everything in the correct order, leaving the bottom of the panes unpinned at this point. I also marked which sleeve was the left sleeve (as the front and back were beginning to look much the same!) I decided, ultimately NOT to sew it all together and have to turn it to hide the seam allowance on the inside – the boning was going to make that difficult, and I was just too tired to figure out what order I would need to pin everything together!
The fabric store was now open, so I popped over, and bought a meter of duponi silk (A half meter might have been sufficient, but I wasn't taking any chances – besides, at $10 a meter...). I laid the silk out, put the pinned foundation on the silk, and added a rough inch or so all around – as I wanted the silk to be able to puff out between the panes. One thing I would do slightly differently next time is to keep the bottom edge (Bicep edge) wider, rather than tapering to follow the curve of the pattern. I pinned the silk into the layers, working the top edge first. My layers were then (from the bottom) lining, canvas, with boning casing on the top, silk, and panes (right side up). Then I pinned the bottom (bicep) edge of the silk, leaving the excess to float aimlessly in the middle. At that point, I started playing with the panes, getting them to lay as I wanted, changing the angle of the bottom edge of each pane, and folding the excess fabric out of the way. (It's about here that I took the picture). From there, I trimmed the excess away, and kept everything pinned in place. I cut bands of fashion fabric – 3 inches wide, 1 pair as long as the shoulder edge, 1 pair as long as the bicep edge, and pressed it in half, then in half again, so the long edges met in the middle. I probably should have cut this on the bias, but I made it work. These strips became my seam binding - I carefully ensured all layers were sandwiched between, and sewed them up. Note that the short edges (the under arm seam) are still open – I did not sew these up at all (yet), through any of the layers.
Finally, I carefully (patiently) inserted my long bones into their casing, and added about ½ meter of netting as stuffing - the netting goes between the canvas and the silk (I did try a version without putting the long bone in as well, but it made the inside of the sleeve more bunchy and stuffed. I do think that long line of boning helps). At this point, the short edges can be sewn up – either into the underarm seam as is suggested, or you can do what I am planning, and just seal them up, and then use a tie to pull the edges in. This is as far as I've actually completed – my bodice needs the shoulder seam fitted properly over my corset (on me!), but they are basically ready to attach.
My plan is to turn the shoulder edge inwards, and stitch it to the outside of the arm hole, which should increase the "upwards" puff of the sleeve cap. The directions (and likely any sane person) suggest that they should be either sewn directly into the armhole seam, or at least sewn into the inside of the arm hole – but my idea is to mount buttons onto the wrong side of that shoulder edge (which would now be facing upwards), and use that to attach my lower sleeves to. This method also keeps things from getting too bulky under the arm, which I don't enjoy.
The instructions in the book are probably a great guideline, but I have made a couple of pairs of paned slops by this point, so I've come to understand that there is something natural about playing with the panes until they look right – you cannot do this by strict measuring – be prepared to play with the bottom angle until it sits how you like – and then struggle to get the other one to match. I DO recommend doing both sleeves at the same time – if I had split it up, I doubt I would have had the motivation to do the other one! This is NOT a project you can do for the first time in a couple of hours.
Molly - Yep... you are completely right.
My hooks and eyes are actually alternated - but I didn't go through all the layers - which is why it is pulling open. Hiding it with trim is not something I had thought of - but will definately do.
Tonight I have enlisted m'lord to get me in to the corset, and the bodice, final fit the shoulder seam, and then see where the hooks need to go, exactly. I will move any in, that need it, and reinforce the stitching by going all the way through all layers, and then add the trim.
Pretty much all that is left is hand stitching...
Ok, so, I need a solution that can be accomplished quickly.
After an entire day of hand sewing, the trim & sleeves are on. The sleeves are 1. a smidge too long, and 2. way too bulky. That I can live with for right now. The major issue is the fit. I had the hooks on, but the whole bodice was too loose,, so I re stitched the front, moved the hooks, and made sure to sew right through all layers. The front no longer gapes open, but in order to close the front, I need to get so tightly laced that, well, it's just not possible. This also makes the whole bodice rise up, gaping at the shoulder.
Can I cut a very small (like less than an inch) panel and put hooks on it, adding a center front panel to make it wearable?
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v18/ShariO/QueenElizabeth1/IMG_5853_zps4ee53633.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/ShariO/media/QueenElizabeth1/IMG_5853_zps4ee53633.jpg.html)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v18/ShariO/QueenElizabeth1/IMG_5855_zpsf90d8865.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/ShariO/media/QueenElizabeth1/IMG_5855_zpsf90d8865.jpg.html)
Well, if it's not wearable as it is, you're going to have to add that panel. If so, might I suggest using a strip of the black and bejeweling *it* all the way up & down so that it looks like you did it on purpose? There's no way you're going to "hide" a panel of the red, so make it obvious & (strangely, therefore) less noticeable that way. What do you think?
molly - it is defiantley something I can adjust, when I have more time. I didn't do anything crazy like trim it away - it is all folded into the bodice.
I went ahead and started on the panel, added hooks on one side, and stitched it right to the other side - no sense in having more hooks ready to pop open! Besides, my poor fingers just couldn't handle more hooks!
I did have a strip of the same gold trim on it, but ripped it off this morning before work. The plan is to add those gold filigree diamonds to it. It ties in the skirt, and of course I intended to do that! ;)
I'm just so tired. Not much left to go. Move 2 gems on the top front, add design to back, add filigree to front. Finish beading under sleeves (on breaks at work!), attach feathers to fan, add pearls to wig, and girdle if time. If not, I have another that will do.
We'll see how far I get tonight! 2 evenings and Friday morning to go!
Quote from: Orphena on June 12, 2013, 09:24:32 AM
[snip]
I'm just so tired. Not much left to go. Move 2 gems on the top front, add design to back, add filigree to front. Finish beading under sleeves (on breaks at work!), attach feathers to fan, add pearls to wig, and girdle if time. If not, I have another that will do.
We'll see how far I get tonight! 2 evenings and Friday morning to go!
I hear you about being tired. Nothing like making a gown in an insanely short amount of time, but you're almost there! You can do it!!!
Molly has the best idea: Insert a 'stomacher' in the front.
I have heard this was the period way to temporarily adjust the fit of the bodice to make it looser, like during pregnancy or an illness, or to just pretty up a piece to make it look different-like adding a pair of sleeves (which you could make to match the insert).
I have never made one, but I think they were usually laced into place, like sleeves.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stomacher (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stomacher)
A picture and a description of how they were fastened in place- though the picture is of an extant stomacher from the 1700's . The article mentions pins, laces or even stitching them in place....In the 14-15th century they were referred to as Plackets. I can't find a period pic, but perhaps one of the other ladies here has one to show us....
Thanks Ladies!
I have now added the teeny tiny placket - it is an inch wide. It is all blinged out, and the bodice now fits. The huge puffed sleeves are dragging the neckline out of position a bit - after faire, I'll be taking them off, and reworking them, but they will have to do for this weekend.
Still some hand stitching on the collar and the under sleeves, but I see the light at the end of the tunnel. If all goes well, I should be done tonight, leaving me time to rest tomorrow morning before faire!
Whoo-HOO!!!
Have fun & post pics of you in all your splendor when you get back!
Your work is looking amazing. I can not wait until you post finished project pics. Great job.
Can't wait for the photos of the finished work!
First and foremost... THANK YOU!! To everyone who helped, suggested ideas, gave feedback, or just peeked at this project - I couldn't have done it without you! While I don't recommend making an entire new gown in 5 short weeks, if you are going to do it, make sure you have a support group! It may not feel like it, but you're all coming with me to faire tomorrow!
Pics of me in the gown will be forthcoming- but all my underpinnings are packed, so these shots will have to do until then! This is a just a quickie on the mannequin....
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v18/ShariO/QueenElizabeth1/IMG_5863_zpsf9dc39b7.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/ShariO/media/QueenElizabeth1/IMG_5863_zpsf9dc39b7.jpg.html)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v18/ShariO/QueenElizabeth1/IMG_5862_zpsfecf625e.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/ShariO/media/QueenElizabeth1/IMG_5862_zpsfecf625e.jpg.html)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v18/ShariO/QueenElizabeth1/IMG_5861_zpsb1f6c0f9.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/ShariO/media/QueenElizabeth1/IMG_5861_zpsb1f6c0f9.jpg.html)
HUZZAH! I can't wait to see you in it! ;D Have a GREAT weekend!
Woo! ;D
WOW! You are going to look FABULOUS!
Wear it well, and break a...nail! (cause I can testify: breaking a leg sucks!! :( ) - best of luck on your Show. ;D
Quote from: Orphena on June 14, 2013, 08:35:11 AM
[snip]
It may not feel like it, but you're all coming with me to faire tomorrow!
[snip]
YAY! I can use a Faire-Fix!
SO: I'd like to see the Mud Show (if there is one) if not, then anything with Celtic music...OH, and I don't really care for turkey legs, but some Scotch Eggs would be nice...and to drink,
well so long as you toast to yourself from me (and I daresay, all of us),
Your Majesty, I don't really care what's in the mug (though a bit of Mead would be lovely)...
Three Cheers for Her Majesty!!!
Hip, hip, HUZZAH!
Hip, hip, HUZZAH!!
Hip, Hip, HUZZAH!!!!
Long live the queen!