Well this was a first for me at TRF. I tend to be a "live and let live" sort of person, just seeking to pass around the joy and good news. I have never been shocked at the festival, yea, in in fact do more shocking than most :).
However this past weekend threw me for a bit if a loop.
I and Sir Scott have been camping in the new area in the trees closest to the grounds entrance. It's been nice! We pulled in there early Friday and set up our area, then drove back out to do some shopping. When we got back, as we tried to pull into the area a small group of folks actually stopped our car and made us roll down the window. "Are you planning to camp in BONDAGE CAMP? Cause that's what this is! You don't have children with you do you?" We responded that we were already set up and drove away from this odd exchange.
After unloading and changing into some "stroll about" garb, we went on our traditional Friday dusk walkabout, to enjoy the atmosphere and maybe meet some folks. That's noticed it - all around us were campsites set up to, well, enjoy some bondage!
There was bondage and S&M equipment everywhere, and people were already beginning to indulge themselves. We walked by several camps where people were sitting or walking about totally naked, and we were continually approached or hailed by folks who wanted to know when and where we were going to be participating. Never been offered to be spanked by so many men in such a short span...
Sure enough, at the entrance to that area of the camp grounds, on the road, a sign had been erected saying "bondage camp. No one under 21". And, all weekend long various highly sexualized S&M activities were taking place out in the open.
At our campsite, there was a group of families who had set up before we got there. They had pre-school and elementary age kids! I believe they ended up leaving or relocating in Saturday afternoon.
Like I said, I'm not easily shocked or disturbed, and judging others is not my thing, but something about this set pretty uneasily with me. I'm all for healthy sex lives and the joys of experimenting and trying new things with your spouse, but this area if the campground seemed to not be the time or the place to engage in out-in-the open sexual play.
I'm guessing that with the size of this forum, some of you reading his May be an active participant in one of the group's that organized this. I'd like to hear your rationale and thoughts behind this event, to be honest. And I wouldn't mind hearing from others as well.
I love the fact that TRF allows folks the right of personal expression, and approaches things on more of a "live and let live" philosophy, but there probably needs to be a line set SOMEWHERE, and I wonder if this may have just stepped over it a bit.
I mean, what happens when one of those parents sues other patrons or TRF for endangering a minor? For sexual harassment? For disturbing the peace with public nudity/sexual acts?
Get a couple of multi-million dollar lawsuits on the docket and watch how fast things change around TRF for the rest of us.
Thoughts?
We monitor the campground all weekend with as many as 11 officers at any given time. We are aware of this groups and they have been coming to TRF for the past couple of years. While we do not promote nudity or crude sexual activity we are very tolerant to all our guests and their lifestyles. I know there were police in the area all weekend and we will watch this group in the future. Thanks for the information.
First off although I just signed up for the forums, I have been camping at TRF since the 90's when it was just a small patch of land at the very end of parking farthest away from the entrance. It has always been part of the whole experience of the fest for myself and my friends who make the long journey from New Orleans every year for what is in my eyes the most possible fun that can be had in one weekend. We have made many great friends in the fest and out over the years.
It is unfortunate that you set up camp early on and they came and camped by you. Some people camp in the same spot every time so that they can be found by friends. I don't know if that was the case here. I don't think it was right to sort of bully you but it was kind of a warning as to what was coming. I was not there to witness them or the setup they had. Over the years I have found it best to get setup quick and play music right away so that those wishing to camp next to us would have an idea that we do not plan to sleep much. We were there Oct. 25,26,27 but stayed in our camp site next door to Valhalla. We had Rocky Horror playing on the movie screen and several people brought the kids to watch it which made some adults uncomfortable. Not really a G rated show.
The quiet camp ground was created so that those who did not want to hear or see what they think is inappropriate would have a place to camp. Over the years people who should be in the quiet area have started bringing their children on walks through the main camp, fire circle and such and complain about vulgarity nudity and other things they find offensive. They have also set up camp next to loud all night party peeps and felt everyone should have a bedtime that is the same as their own. The main camp is not rated G but the quiet camp ground is.
Being from New Orleans we get this same attitude from people who bring the kids to Bourbon St. and feel that it should be kid friendly. If it was rated G it would not exist. Adults need a safe place they can have fun without having to worry about children watching. The security at the camp grounds has always been fair to those who were not out of hand. They have a tough job that can go unappreciated to say the least. Yes some do get out of control and they get dealt with appropriately. I would not bring a church group or kids to either Bourbon Street or TRF main camp.
If people do try and ban all the adult activities and turn it into a Disney campground I nor my friends would be making the drive anymore. We do not believe in drinking and driving and that is what makes the camp ground perfect for us! We can enjoy great food and drink all day in the fest and walk home to our camp. The most brilliant idea ever!
We are coming back to camp on Nov. 22 for the weekend and will be staying up til the wee hours being a loud fun bunch that we are and we invite all ADULTS to come to our camp for some New Orleans hospitality.
I hope your weekend was at least half as fun as ours was even though you saw more than you wanted to!!
P.S. There are those who treasure your belongings as much or more than you do at the camp. Make sure you lock your valuables in your vehicle and if you have a cooler or generator lock it with a chain or it may walk away with a pawn shop fairy!!
I'm pretty open about things and really have no problem with alternate styles of entertainment. The question for me is were they respectfull to other campers aka not blasting lights and music till 6am, warning others that the area was not PG-13 in a friendly none threatening way and didn't try to bully or intimiate the other campers and did they pick up after themselves and not trash the camp grounds. Kept their activities within their own camp and did not invide other camps unwanted.
I don't agree with the movie rating policy. Quiet versus Non-Quiet does not equate to Family Friendly versus Red Light District. Sorry, that ain't gonna fly.
Our camp, the same as many others, has occupied the same area on the same weekends for many years. We are located in the main camp at what was once called row 0. We camp directly behind the remnants of Chaos, and our camp IS Family Friendly. We do not tollerate all night partying and will indicate this nicely, one time only.
We had an altercation with a bunch of kids (20 somethings) who felt that the main camp was a 24 hour long party place and that they could hold that party where ever they pleased. To them, that included next to our camp which had been setup since Thursday night. They arrived on Saturday. Decided that spinning fire next to our tents was a good idea. At 3am, we are no longer polite.
The main camp will always be all things to all people. You respect my groups right to be safe with our kids, quietly after 2am, with a tent that isn't burnt to the ground, and we'll let y'all have your all night drunkfest that should be about 100 yards away.
As for the topic of the thread, if they keep themselves walled in and are not exposing themselves to thems that don't wish to see it, and the faire is ok with it, then let them do what they please. However, it is still first come first claim, and if your claim is gone when you get there, and you intend act in a way that may not agree with your neighbors, then you need to find a new place to setup.
Lorde Charles
Clan Procrastination
I will destroy you if you threaten my family's safety
A lot of people here are pretty open minded about alternative lifestyles and the like. However, there are some other questions that might need consideration in any discussion of this particular topic. Such as:
Are the nudity and special activities visible to any Faire-goers who are not camping? (Barbarian Queen mentioned it was in the new tree-line camping area near Faire entrance. How close that is to non-camping parking? Or to the outside privy? Cannot figure out on the campground map exactly where bondage camp was set up.) (Later reply indicates it was not visible.)
Are the nudity and special activities visible to campers who are driving from further out and parking in what used to be rows 1-5? (This could very likely include people from family/quiet camping trying to park closer.) (Later reply indicates it was not visible.)
Is that camp allowed to create some kind of barrier around themselves by roping area off, putting up screening cloths? (Something other groups are not allowed to do.)
Did they actually create their camp area around where other campers were already set up, in effect evicting anyone not wanting to be part of the nudity and special activities? (The Barbarian Queen's posted she was already camped and perhaps a couple other families – not clear if they were there before the bondage camp.)
Are they allowed to post a no one under 21 sign on the road?
Since the area is close to the entrance, is it visible to campers walking to and from the Faire from the campgrounds? (Later reply indicates it was not visible.)
Are toys left out visible to incoming Faire-goers (campers or not) in the morning?
(Later reply indicates it was not visible.)
Obviously we all sleep at some point. But, we like many others make the journey from afar for a reason. Our reason has been the freedom to have a mainly unrestricted and ungoverned good time, enjoy friends new and old and dazzle at the spectacle that is the renfest and it's wonderfully open camping experience. Obviously we all have something or another that bothers us about it, hell if you have gone as many years and times that we have it's unavoidable to rub someone the wrong way or vice versus. In recent years rules have surfaced that admittedly they make sense in many ways - but rules they be none-the-less. Rules absorb the freedom and when the freedom goes so does the experience. Love thy neighbor is the general status quo as long as thy neighbor love thee back. I agree that setting up upon an existing camp and saying this is how it is and how it will be, especially if your bringing an extreme sense of fun, is, well not right, the area is large enough to venture elsewhere rather than to encroach another's site. I also agree that the main camping area is and has for the decades we have gone been considered "that free zone" of anything goes and sleep if you can. It should remain as such so as to not lose the magic that created it. Knowing this when we camp with and for our friends for unrestricted fun the main site is where we reside. When we camp to bring the kids we gracefully bow out and locate elsewhere so that the presence of our offspring doesn't spoil others freedoms on their days of decadence. My eyes enjoy the spectacle but, it's ultimately MY responsibility to shield my children that exposure until they are of age, as such we camp outside the main in the quiet "family" zone. To do otherwise would be unjust to all. To expect the fest to lay jury over this matter is wrong. To expect the police to, well that is how rules come about. Those who do the complaining and post objections need to direct them inwardly first and analyze the long term effect it could bring to us all before sharing them with the masses or the governors.
This camp was tucked away and signs were posted so people would know what they could potentially walk into. I was camping near the area and didn't see anything spill out into the other camp areas, nor did I hear of any such incidents.
I've seen this kind of thing out in the open in other areas of camp, wide open, so I'm not really sure why it is being discussed now. Is it because they 'named' it Camp Bondage and hung a sign like any other clan would? Is it because these folks wanted to be sure that all around them were safe and aware of what was going on?
No more rules at camp please. We have enough.
Quote from: Bonny Pearl on November 04, 2013, 02:29:40 PM
This camp was tucked away and signs were posted so people would know what they could potentially walk into. I was camping near the area and didn't see anything spill out into the other camp areas, nor did I hear of any such incidents.
I've seen this kind of thing out in the open in other areas of camp, wide open, so I'm not really sure why it is being discussed now. Is it because they 'named' it Camp Bondage and hung a sign like any other clan would? Is it because these folks wanted to be sure that all around them were safe and aware of what was going on?
No more rules at camp please. We have enough.
YEAH! What she said! ;D
From what Bonny Pearl said, the Bondage Camp was positioned so it was not visible by people not specifically looking for it. It would not be evident to other faire goers from the parking lots.
Am I reading that correctly?
Quote from: PollyPoPo on November 04, 2013, 03:07:55 PM
From what Bonny Pearl said, the Bondage Camp was positioned so it was not visible by people not specifically looking for it. It would not be evident to other faire goers from the parking lots.
Am I reading that correctly?
You had to read the signs to know it was there Polly. It was not visible from the road.
Like I said as long as they respected other campers I have no problem with them and would most likely stop and say hello if for no other reason than I'm a curious person and enjoy meeting people with lots of different views.
Well, apparently I am in the minority.
Again, I'm not judging individuals or groups, or trying to offend anyone, and I like rules less than anyone!
And, I'm not trying to be argumentative, but just so we're all on the same page, let me get more specific - there seems to be differences of experiences and observations in the discourse above.
This is where we camped in the new area. We were the yellow dot.
(http://i.imgur.com/2YncfPB.jpg)
It's really nice! Flat, shade, and REALLY close to the entrance, in fact, the closest camping in the entire campground. We were at the yellow dot, and the group with multiple families and small children were the blue dot. We got there Friday at about 3pm - they were already set up and enjoying the outdoors!
A good size group of young people were camped at the reddish pink dot. They were there for the Bondage Camp. They were polite, if a bit noisy (laughter, moans and screams from the spankings :) , and this is what was taking place there in multiple camps over the whole area, in case you didn't happen to wander over for a visit (Stock photo, but a good representation, and a "safe" link. Click it!)
Link to photo that included nudity removed. Please PM BarbarianQueen for link. - Sir Martin
I had the linked photo above initially embedded like the camp photo. My thought was to recreate the experience I had unexpectedly encountering this activity, but discretion got the best of me.
I guess my worry was for the families and the kids. These were not the only families in the area, and their were quite a few other kids and children of varying ages. We were camped a good 500 feet from the "Bondage Camp" sign (which was up by the Chaos encampment), and it wasn't there at 3pm on Friday (unless we just missed it).
Could you see this from the road? Yes, if you knew where to look or happen to look at just the right time. Also, that stretch of road is the busiest part of camp at opening and closing of the festival. Maybe there was a "central official" area for the group, but I can tell you from camping there that participants and their activities were spread over quite a bit of the new area.
Wow, I feel like such a party pooper for expressing my thoughts! Maybe, as a mom, it was the shock of seeing four year olds playing swordfight, and also being able to see in the same glance the activities of the bondage camp participants.
On reflection, maybe a more remote area of the camp, away from the main road, or better warning signage or more natural cover for the activities would have made me feel less uneasy.
So Terre - does this mean I can stake out an area and set up some signs that say "The Naked Knights and Denuded Damsels - under 21 not admitted" and invite all my clothing optional friends for a party-hearty weekend??
;D
Actually, I'm totally serious on that last bit. Terre?
Don't mean to double post, but I wanted to re-mention something else I shared above.
Lord Scott and I have a long history of visiting obscure places and events "where the wild things are", if you catch my meaning. Though the years, we've watched these events grow and change, and not always for the best. In several instances, the activities of these events became so amped up through the years that the "law" finally stepped in, and stepped HARD. After that, gone were the wonderful and magical experiences which had seemed to be somehow at 90 degrees from the "real" world. For us, Camping at TRF is still one of those "wild and wooly" experiences that seem to be on a different plane than the world of the 'Danes. I would just hate for something to occur that would somehow put that at risk. "No rules!!" is equivalent to anarchy, and the world tends to eventually squash anarchists and their followers, where possibly much freedom with only a gentle hand of guidance might help avoid the mundane-ish hand of "expression oppression".
Hope nobody here takes offense to me sharing my thoughts. I tried hard not to pass judgement on folks or speak poorly of their activities in the above postings, only to comment on how it was integrated into the TRF world.
I know I'm probably in the minority, but to me it seems like over the past 10 years or so, the campgrounds have gone from the hippy/tribal drumming dancing feeling place that I fell in love with to the in your face I'll do what I want sexual free-for-all that it is now. Yes, I understand the whole family/ quiet camping thing, but I thought that was originally done for the noise level, not so the rest of the campgrounds could have an orgy...
Again, these are my own personal feelings, and people are free to do what they want, but there's a reason that I and others have stopped going out there as much.
Not being argumentative either.
I camped with Chaos this weekend and like I stated earlier, I didn't witness any spill over nor heard of any. I am just one person though. I went back there with some friends that were curious about it and it was pretty well enclosed. As for camp in general, anyone can very easily stumble into a camp that is doing the same type of activities, they just won't have a sign. You can see some interesting sights at the drum circle as well. I walk that particular row every weekend to get to into faire. I walked it this weekend; didn't see a thing in the morning or in the evening. With the way people were set up along the row, all I saw was their camps, not the bondage camp.
I didn't say 'no rules' I said 'no more rules.' If people are taking their kids to faire and camping it is their responsibility to keep them away from what they deem as unsuitable and not for minors and to monitor their camp parameters to be sure the kids are safe, etc. I am a parent also, know the risks and act accordingly.
I don't want to see us start becoming a 'helicopter community' because then it spills over into what happens inside faire with butt cheeks, fur and chain maille on display or kilt checks, floggings and so on. Some people will think that is too much for their kids to see, depending on age of course. It's their call to act accordingly and move on, or not. There was a big stink last year about the chain maille show. I'd hate to see camp come into that same kind of situation.
If you set up the Knights & Damsels camp let us know because there will probably be quite a few visitors lol!
Not sure what you mean by "helicopter community", but it wasn't your posts that I was actually responding to.
Quote from: BarbarianQueen on November 04, 2013, 09:04:56 PM
Not sure what you mean by "helicopter community", but it wasn't your posts that I was actually responding to.
It's a term used for parents that hover over their kids lol, Helicopter Parents. No worries.
Barbarian Queen and Tink, I do not think you are particularly in the minority by way of your thinking, but perhaps in the minority in speaking out. It has become almost politically incorrect to voice an opinion which is not in favor of everybody pushing the envelope when it comes to behavior. It swings too far one way and there is anarchy; too far the other and a lady such as Barbarian Queen cannot enter Scarby.
Absolutely, parents are responsible for shielding their children from activities deemed unfit for younger people, even as people are responsible for avoiding places where activities offensive to them are likely to take place.
Families with children read the official literature and think that the difference in the campgrounds is based on noise level. Driving into the campgrounds, the new area looks very inviting, close to entrance, with plenty of trees for coverage. Campers have no warning that there is a sex camp set up close by; or (darn, I typed it up, thought about it and deleted what I had typed. Better not put that in print).
Obviously, from comments in this thread and others through recent years, there are many people who believe that TRF general camping should be a place where just such activities are permitted with few or no limits. Many have posted lamenting the demise of the free-wheeling, naked Godiva, old days.
The owner/management makes the decision as to what TRF campgrounds are to be in the future. Perhaps they will one day designate a portion of the campgrounds as suitable for adult-only activities, yet allowing more moderate campers to have a communal bonfire which families could enjoy and where dancers and fire spinners could come to play.
Interesting topic. I liked Terre's comment: "we are very tolerant to all our guests and their lifestyles." I think most of us here understand that there are a lot of people camping and there will be some provocative behavior at times. Common sense dictates that we all show respect for each other. It sounds like the Bondage Camp people were trying to alert others who may have been offended.
Barbarian Queen - I appreciate the info you have provided, but I had to remove the link in one of your previous posts because it contained nudity. It was an interesting image, for sure, but R/F members will need to contact you by PM for a link of that nature. Now you're not the only one who feels like a party pooper. :)
I haven't been in the campgrounds this year because the lanes have been sealed off with dirt mounds and newly-planted trees. Even when not camping, it was fun to go visit with friends for a couple hours before I headed home (or back to the motel). Guess I will need to get a tent soon.
Quote from: PollyPoPo on November 05, 2013, 12:24:57 AM
Barbarian Queen and Tink, I do not think you are particularly in the minority by way of your thinking, but perhaps in the minority in speaking out. It has become almost politically incorrect to voice an opinion which is not in favor.
I don't care what anyone's personal lifestyle is or what their sexual preferences are. I care how they behave towards me. And I care if their behavior affects places that I enjoy.
However, I may be one of the few who understands Barbarian Queen's concerns about the slippery slope. This is a public campground in the sense that TRF is not restricting campers to 21 and over. There is a line at which arrests and lawsuits will happen and A. Camping rules will be like those at a state park, or B. The legal costs will force closure of campgrounds to anyone who is not an employee of the faire. ie. Scarborough.
I pictured to myself how I would have felt if these people had moved in next door while I was camped there with my 11 year old niece.
I do not want to have to explain to her mother how she found out what 'bondage' is, or how she saw the nude men and women camped next to us.
AHE we had a toy hauler pull in next to McShug... our Clan Matron promptly alerted them that we were a "R" rated camp and that there may be some brief nudity from time to time. Imagine our shock when they broke out the Naked Jenga... Great weekend. The cops even rolled in during the game and were like " HOLY S**T! What the hell is going on here?!?" then hung out and watched for a bit... ;D
From the original post, it would seem that the families were in the area first. Then the bondage group came in later.
For those of you who are part of more adult groups: since TRF is supposed to be first-come first-camped, how do your groups handle that kind of a situation where there is a smaller family group already camped where you were planning to camp?
We move over a bit. If you REALLY plan on having a certain spot, you need to have Land Grabbers, on site, Thursday morning. If you don't then its your own fault if "your" piece of camp is taken by someone else.
Martin, though you are not able to drive into the camps, the walkway is not guarded in any way. You can always take a stroll out to the camps and kill some time while waiting for traffic to die down
And I completely agree with Fraser.
Sent via digital carrier Pigeon
Quote from: Laird Fraser of Lovatt on November 05, 2013, 07:11:37 AM
AHE we had a toy hauler pull in next to McShug... our Clan Matron promptly alerted them that we were a "R" rated camp and that there may be some brief nudity from time to time. Imagine our shock when they broke out the Naked Jenga... Great weekend. The cops even rolled in during the game and were like " HOLY S**T! What the hell is going on here?!?" then hung out and watched for a bit... ;D
Dude you make me sound old with that matron stuff!?!? :o but yes to answer some questions...for McShuggenah AHE has always been a kid free weekend or under 5 or older than 17. It's the one weekend a lot of our group cuts loose and thus the reason we have a land-grabber. When people start to come near us I ask if they have kids and if they are ok with nudity. Just so they are aware of what they may see or hear from our group.
I agree with Dona Catalina about the slippery slope effect.
The bonfire is an example of something that started off a little wild, but children could still come watch for a while before heading to bed. Then eventually, young women were bouncing topless before the fire was even lit. Add the jello shots wagon and the girls got younger and younger, and drunker and drunker. Cops made sporadic attempts at control, but too often just ignored the underage drinking and serious drugs. Eventually someone thought it would be a good idea to toss in a propane tank.
Is it any wonder that ravers thought they could come in with their equipment and blast the sound so that there were complaints from civilians up to two miles away? Their websites, F/B and so forth, were hopping with the news that TRF was a place where there were no rules or grownups to tell them they couldn't. So the reaction had to be a sound level check and no amplified sound after midnight in the general campgrounds. For everybody.
I agree with Dona Catalina that eventually changes will occur, whether through management limitations on certain behaviors, or the more extreme behavior drive out the moderate, or through legal action, particularly where minors are concerned.
There is official advertising and then there is the perhaps unintentional internet advertising that occurs in conversation forums and the Facebook pages.
A business entity can claim everyone is on notice that they enter at their own risk, but that disclaimer does not often hold up in court. Hopefully TRF has sufficient legal insurance to cover any such legal actions.
Quote from: LadyJessica on November 05, 2013, 08:57:25 AM
Quote from: Laird Fraser of Lovatt on November 05, 2013, 07:11:37 AM
AHE we had a toy hauler pull in next to McShug... our Clan Matron promptly alerted them that we were a "R" rated camp and that there may be some brief nudity from time to time. Imagine our shock when they broke out the Naked Jenga... Great weekend. The cops even rolled in during the game and were like " HOLY S**T! What the hell is going on here?!?" then hung out and watched for a bit... ;D
Dude you make me sound old with that matron stuff!?!? :o but yes to answer some questions...for McShuggenah AHE has always been a kid free weekend or under 5 or older than 17. It's the one weekend a lot of our group cuts loose and thus the reason we have a land-grabber. When people start to come near us I ask if they have kids and if they are ok with nudity. Just so they are aware of what they may see or hear from our group.
Well, you ARE clan mother... ;D
*got to love me!* ;)
repect is the key if the ravers had respected others they would still be there. From what I've read here and on my camper forum (we have a TRF camping topic since several of us camp there during the season) this groups seem to respect other campers around them. I understand the concern people have specially parents with kids but am willing to give them benefit till the prove they can't repect others. Not having kids of course factors into that.
You took the words out of my mouth, Sir Richard! Respect is key... act like an a**clown and you may end up superglued inside your tent.
We know what camps are G, PG, R or NC17 and respect their boundries & rules.
As the mother of a male "tween" I would have concerns if R rated/ sexual activity was visible as we move back and forth between the privy, gate, food vendor, etc. when leaving the family/quite camping area. That being said, I would say a few bare booties and free boobies never killed anyone. If you go to SouthBeach Miami, not much difference! At Sherwood our son was free to roam and find other kids to play with. He of course can read so I am sure if there was signage that warned over 21 only, that he would read it and avoid, so kudos for using appropriate signage.
We camped there all weekend. We showered multiple times and made numerous trips both out of the campgrounds and to the convenience store (near where this was?). I can honestly say that we didn't even know it was there until the drive home when I read this thread.
While I can pretty assuredly say that neither myself nor my better half is interested in this kind of behavior, we are not the type to censor anyone's fun as long as they're being respectful about it. From what almost everyone here has said, you pretty much had to ignore warning signs, and press forward to even run in to this camp. They didn't seem to act disrespectful towards anyone else near them/in the rest of the grounds. Hell, most people here didn't know they existed, and spent a weekend within 1000yd of them.
My 2c, for what it's worth, is live and let live. They posted signage a good ways back. They kept to themselves. They were respectful. If/when they start crossing lines, then take appropriate action against them, like what was done with the ravers.
Respect is absolutely key. While I have no interest in bdsm, I know many who do. For the most part they are respectful of those with kids, but there are always those few who just don't care and those are the ones who cause issues. We had an altercation one time with a member of a group who was very angry at us being in "his spot" and how dare us be camped in main camping with a child. We were at a respectful distance from the group and no one there said anything to us. Just because we have a child does not mean we want to be out in the middle of no where next to the railroad tracks with a mile walk just to get to faire. We understand that it will be louder and there is a possibility of adult happenings after dark. We make sure our son is in bed by 930 at the latest. As long as a bondage camp is properly shielded, that's fine, but be there early to claim your out of the way area and don't set up next a camp that is already there and then warn them of what you are doing. It doesn't matter if its "your spot" that you use every year on a particular weekend, be there early to claim it or be prepared to adjust your plan.
just FYI,
For Trillium, this spot was in a new area of camping just opened, not a traditional spot for anyone.
For James, this was very close to the Faire entrance, opposite end from where the showers and store are.
This sort of thread is what I love about this community, there are several opinions, respectfully stated and no one feels the need to judge or be rude. <3 for all that have commented!
The only thing I can say is that, I learned my first year camping that the campsite, like faire is full of things that you may or may not want to see. As long as things are done with respect to boundaries, which it sounds like they were, then all is well that ends well.
Respect, give it everything will work out.
Respect - I think that might have been the original question paraphrased.
If there were already families camped in the area where sexual acts were going to be performed in the open, did the bondage clan cross that line? Or did they ask the families if they had any objections beforehand? Or have they become such a large group that they basically do what they want? Since no one from that group (nor the families who were camped there) has responded, we don't know.
Tossing in my $0.02, since I am known for my subtle and restrained voicing of opinions ;D
I have been working and attending TRF since '89. I have seen things that have left my inner child scarred, and that takes a LOT, let me tell you, but most of it was in the early to mid 90s. Most were INSIDE faire (a 5'3" 350lb man who had enough hair to convince me Sasquatch was definitely one of his ancestors and was built like a Warhammer 40k dwarf wearing a G-string bikini in an inflatable tub... yeah, that'd make a Shàolín monk run screaming), but I've seen some doozies out in Patrons as well. The slippery slope was long slipped, and I can tell you from personal experience (and participation *whistles innocently*) that things have been MUCH wilder in the past.
Bondage Camp, Raver Haven, Order of the Loquaciously Inebriated Monks, I don't care, so long as they keep it to their camp, show respect, and shut the hell up by 2am so I don't have to groggily and angrily go into their camp and threaten to pull their internal organs out through their nostrils in alphabetical order (seriously- I get grumpy when woken up to "DOO-kah DOO-kah DOO-kah OONTZ OONTZ OONTZ" at 3am). Parents- and I speak as one- are responsible for monitoring their children, so if these groups keep their activities hidden away from common sight, no awkward moments of "Daddy, what's a gimp mask for?" should occur. Now, that being said, if anyone DOES step out of line and put it out there for the public, TRF should be willing to back up the LEOs in busting their butts and hauling them off, both to prevent things from getting out of hand and as a corporate CYA move to prevent TRF, Inc. from getting a reputation second only to Mr. Slippery-Fist's Bar and Grill in San Francisco. It cuts both ways- let them have their fun so long as it's not harming anyone (Mouse excluded, I fully plan on tossing him bound and gagged into their camp with "SPANK ME!" written on a sign pinned to his chest, since fires are such a passe torment for him now ;) ), but crack down on those who push the lines and are disrespectful to other campers. Trust me, I've seen things you wouldn't believe out there, but it wasn't in people's faces, so it didn't bother me beyond a dire need for eye-bleach.
Seriously, if you think Bondage Camp was bad, picture this in a G-string-
(http://images.mmosite.com/warhammer/images/races/slayer-look-01.jpg)
Quote from: Breandan on November 05, 2013, 01:45:05 PM
Tossing in my $0.02, since I am known for my subtle and restrained voicing of opinions ;D
...
BWWWAAAAAAYYYYYY!!!!! Almost made me choke on that one!
B....he had the longest line of folks to spank him on AHE and all he said was.... huh?
So I fully support such measures in his case!
Quote from: PollyPoPo on November 05, 2013, 11:02:33 AM
just FYI,
For Trillium, this spot was in a new area of camping just opened, not a traditional spot for anyone.
For James, this was very close to the Faire entrance, opposite end from where the showers and store are.
Complete opposite end of camp... what we call the "negitives".
Quote from: Dracconia on November 05, 2013, 03:01:01 PM
B....he had the longest line of folks to spank him on AHE and all he said was.... huh?
So I fully support such measures in his case!
But was the flogger ON FIRE?
Oh, Mouse...
Well I Also attend Anime conventions and have often wonder how parents explain the people wondering around there in dog collars and leash wear fur cosplay outfits. Of course I also wonder after seeing them what anime I seem to be missing.
we have been going to the ref fest for over 10 years but this was the first time to camp. i pulled the trailer in early. friday morning and picked a spot in the new area right on the road across from the handycap parkng. i set up my tt and got it ready fo
the family's arrival. there was no signs up yet for bondage camp. i was approached late in the day as more of them showed up and was told if i had kids i had to move. i told them there is no reserved parking. when i pulled in there was no one in the area.we got into a bit of an argument and i told them i had no problew with what they were doing but they should hace choosen a more isolated area. The group turned out to be rspectfull and all honestly where less noisy than than other guest. they seemed to go to bead fairly early and did not have loud music or yelling, cheering going on.
they kept to themselves and i did not see anything that wasnt pg rated from my camp.
i say to each his own. they made less noise than the drum circle that was about 100 yards away
DonaCatalina, thank you for getting my original point.
I'm all for "respect" and "freedom", but that would also extend to families who don't want to see an adult woman or man chained to a cross and whipped until their arse is red.
Both of these groups have a right (currently) to use any part if the campground they want. However, at some point in order to keep the peace, these groups may need more help steering clear of each other. If TRF doesn't find a way to gently do so (such as with better signage, more clear designations, descriptions, etc), my worry is that a conflict or clash could occur that would eventually involve the law or a bunch of lawyers.
I say this simply because I don't want another one of our "magical and mystical" places and experiences to get squashed.
By the way, for those who didn't venture over or weren't there ( we DID go over to say hi to some of the camps), this wasn't really a "camp", like camp McLotofus or Phoenix rising, it was much more a Bondage Festival, with anywhere from 20-25 camps participating, spread out over much of the new area. They had erected a stage and incredibly bright area lights at the very back if the camping area, which I assumed was there main gathering area for group activities, but we didn't venture back that far.
Alrighty then!
If you can't beat 'em, join 'em! (no pun intended...)
Won't be camping this week, but next week, please be on the lookout for our new camp and clan banners, and come camp with us, or at least stop in for an extended stay!
Please offer suggestions as to where the best and most amicable location would be for our new clan - new area, back of the old area, one of the old parking lanes, etc.
Also, make sure to bring something warm, such as a fire pit, burn barrel, etc. It might be a bit "nippy", ahem...
Here's our new camp banner/warning sign -
(http://i.imgur.com/1Zoyo3K.jpg)
Make sure to stop by and keep abreast (ahem) of the goings on in our new camp, though I know with all the established strong camps, we'll be up against some stiff competition (ahem).
There will be no bondage or beatings here - only courtly behavior, good music and lots O' mead! Bums will be thrown out!! (Well, ONE kind of bum, anyway).
Oh, and Terre, please chime in with YOUR suggestion for a safe location.
See you there!
Quote from: prothos on November 05, 2013, 05:58:26 PM
we have been going to the ref fest for over 10 years but this was the first time to camp. i pulled the trailer in early. friday morning and picked a spot in the new area right on the road across from the handycap parkng. i set up my tt and got it ready fo
the family's arrival. there was no signs up yet for bondage camp. i was approached late in the day as more of them showed up and was told if i had kids i had to move. i told them there is no reserved parking. when i pulled in there was no one in the area.we got into a bit of an argument and i told them i had no problew with what they were doing but they should hace choosen a more isolated area. The group turned out to be rspectfull ....
Thank you prothos for giving us more insight into what was actually transpiring between at least some of the bondage group and campers who had already set up before the bondage group arrived. While you stood up to them and stayed, rather than be involved in an argument/altercation, other campers may have just packed up and moved to the quiet campgrounds or left the campgrounds entirely.
Posts by campground management through the last couple years (here and on the Facebook pages), have repeatedly responded to queries about the "adult" area by saying there is no "adult" area; there is general camping and the quiet area.
While Terre Albert indicated TRF is tolerant of various lifestyles, if big groups like this come in and are allowed to displace campers already set up, does that not create an intolerance for the other campers?
In this particular case, prothos said he was told if he had kids he had to move; Barbarian Queen told us she and her escort were stopped while driving back to their campsite and asked if they had children. Is there a procedure in place for campers who are told to move by a someone not wanting kids in the area to report such activity to officers or management?
Perhaps it is time for TRF campgrounds to reconsider reserved areas or designating specific areas for adult-themed camping.
This is my point. Established clans DO NOT impose upon campers not affiliated with them. I have yet to see any clan threaten people camped in "their" area...usually its "Howdy Neighbor", the clan scoots over a bit and invites the others to come by for a beer. Bondage Camp isn't really a clan... its a loose group of like minded individuals. Kind of like my clan, they only camp once a year... we talked to some of the "leaders" during the open house and they seemed to be nice people. I'm sorry that some people from their group tried to be a**hats but as a whole, it sounds like they tried to follow the unwritten clan rules. If they REALLY wanted that spot, they would've had landgrabbers there Thursday morning.
This is all IMO.
Naked Ed......(shudder)
Again, just to clarify -
Bondage camp wasn't really a clan, and they weren't claiming a "spot". The single sign for the event was on the main road outside Chaos camp. It seemed to basically designate the entire new area, and that proved to be the case. There may have been a "central" area, but multiple camps were there to participate (20?), scattered throughout the entire new area (which is about the size of the entire original area near the bonfire). And, many of the individual camps had set up quite the elaborate bondage equipment. We saw probably 10-12 large wooden bondage crosses set up across the new area. Only a couple of these were in use during the afternoon, but from the sounds of smacking and moans of pleasure, quite a few more were in use as the sun went down :)
Well, I've said my piece, and now have begun to feel like I'm judging or expressing distaste for what folks were engaged in, and that was not my intent or purpose. My only thought was to raise questions of how groups like this could be safely managed in the future, such that TRF doesn't run into problems, putting the rest of our fun at risk.
Rest assured, Camp Naked Knights and Disrobed Damsels will be tucked away in a quiet corner somewhere in the old or new camp, with good screening and warnings, far from impressionable young eyes, and, like Shangri La, the only way to find it will be through sheer luck, help from the Barbarian God's, or if the Barbarian Queen smiles upon you and imparts the secret directions... ;D
Smile away on me queen. We will return Barbarian weekend without kids in tow.
Ah, Barbarian Queen, you might have just hit upon what I question.
While, as Laird Fraser says, clans may have traditional spots for camping and send "land grabbers" to make sure they get tents up first, the bondage group appears to have decided that the entire new area was theirs and by virtue of a sign they could make it off-limits to other campers who might have members under 21.
Several years ago, clan groups sent people ahead to put up ropes or sheeting barriers to block off large areas for their particular group. That is no longer allowed.
If the long-established clans cannot claim an area without having tents on the ground and clam members on site, is it acceptable for this group to do just that?
The question has nothing to do with their activities, but why they can designate the entire new area for their exclusive use simply by posting a sign.
Quote from: BarbarianQueen on November 05, 2013, 09:24:02 PM
...By the way, for those who didn't venture over or weren't there ( we DID go over to say hi to some of the camps), this wasn't really a "bondage camp", like camp McLotofus or Phoenix Risen...
Wait, we're a bondage camp?
The wife and I must be going to sleep way too early.
Alex, you have noooo idea ;D
...seriously, though, Mouse had a line longer than a downtown McDonalds drivethrough at lunch rush waiting to spank him, I think it wrapped around the camp twice. Dunno if that counts, per se, but he didn't seem to mind much :P
BarbarianQueen you make me wish I was camping in two weeks. I'll not be down again till highland weekend or closing. If Camp Naked Knights and Disrobed Damsels are there then I'll just have to force my self to visit and say hello
Quote from: <Alex> on November 06, 2013, 10:03:02 AM
Quote from: BarbarianQueen on November 05, 2013, 09:24:02 PM
...By the way, for those who didn't venture over or weren't there ( we DID go over to say hi to some of the camps), this wasn't really a "bondage camp", like camp McLotofus or Phoenix Risen...
Wait, we're a bondage camp?
The wife and I must be going to sleep way too early.
Ha! Not my intention - it has been edited to reflect my meaning.
::) yet another reason ol' Zardoz never camps anymore
New user here.. Hello everyone
My family and I are the ones mentioned in the original post and indicated by the blue dot on the map posted by BarbarianQueen. This is the story of how we got there
Our family consists of my wife, myself and our 4 children (all 6 and under). This is our second year camping at TRF (visiting the fair for 5.)
I arrived at the campgrounds around 2:00 and began to look for a place to camp. Having experienced the opening weekend deluge, I wanted to scout a few areas out before I set up camp. We do not like the family camping area. It is too far from the entrance, too quite, too secluded, no shade, and few porta potties. When you have 4 kids, it is wise to camp near the potties (and the entrance). Although this is only our second year, we have camped multiple times in different areas (we have not yet found the perfect spot or clan to camp with).
SO back to the story, after driving around for 30 minutes I decide to talk to Red Beard and Bonny Pearl about a good place to camp. Bonny, pointed out the bondage camp so I would not camp near there (Thank you Bonny.) So I continued to drive around - and still could not find an appropriate spot (groups kept running me off the second I drove up telling me I could not camp near them because they were having more people arrive - even though there was no one at the spot at the time.) After many unsuccessful attempts I decided to camp near the entrance and close to 4 porta potties in a row. I found a flat spot and proceeded to set up the camp. Come to realize - after I had set up the tent and canopy, that I was right in front of the bondage camp. I did not realize it was right behind me. There were no signs in the area I was in - the signs were on the road in front of the bondage camp - not the entrance road. No one came up to me and warned me or asked if I had kids. I did not realize where I was camped until I saw a 'gentleman' who was camped next to me unpack a cage (dog cage) and paddles. As I began to look around I saw a woman bent over a car bumper getting flogged. Now I am a very open minded person I could care less what anyone does - and in fact under different circumstances - who knows I may be there myself. This does not mean, however, that I want my 6 year old daughter to be exposed to it. So back to the story, after I figured out where I was, I called my wife (who was still driving - with the children) and told her the situation. We determined that we would reassess the situation when she arrived. In the meantime, I re-arranged the canopy and my truck to block the views and hoped it would be enough. Luckily 2 RV's parked perpendicular to our tent and completed our security perimeter. When my wife finally arrived, we determined that between the canopy, the truck, her mini-van, and the 2 rv's our view was almost completely obstructed. It turned out well and we stayed the entire weekend. No one ever asked us to leave and I never had to ask anyone to remove themselves from my children's' view. Overall we had a extremely nice weekend with zero problems.
Now people could say (and they do) that my family and I should stick to the family area - I say hell no. That is the most boring place at the entire faire. We like being around people, the noise, and the general faire camping atmosphere. My only wish is that we sometimes had a babysitter so my wife and I could participate in some of the adult activities.
I will see you all soon
McCool
Finn!! You finally made it on here lol! Good to see you!
Ladies and Gents,
This thread is informative, but has at times gotten a bit too spicy for the public section of R/F. Please remember that images and video (and links to these) cannot contain nudity. We all appreciate helpful info about the campgrounds (and other aspects of TRF), but this info cannot include details about activity that is of a sexual nature. Adult fun is part of our great faire, but we are drifting a bit too far into specificity here.
Thank You Bonny and Barbarian Queen for your warm welcome.
I have tried many times to register for the site but never had the motivation to not to give up until this thread. I told my wife "hey honey they are talking about us on renaissancefestival.com". She was a bit shocked :o
Anyway I did want to add to the discussion a little more. When Bonny told me about the camp, we were located near Laughs a Lot. I did not know that the bondage camp was spread about the entire area all the way to the last camping spots in the far corner located on entrance road. The area was HUGE. This is why I did not realize we were in the camping areas for the folks participating in the activities. The extravaganza was actually pretty far away. I doubt we could have seen anything even without my obstructions. It was just the participants that were near us. One group or about ten 20somethings were actually not even involved so, it was not that bad. The only suspects were a little north of us.
The only problem my wife and had with the bondage camp was the location. It was positioned so that almost everyone in the entire camp had to pass by it at some time. There was no escaping it. You could not choose to bypass it. In other words you could not give your consent. You were compelled to be subjected to it. Even if you did not participate or search it out, it was so evident that you could not miss it. Everyone in the entire camp knew exactly where it was because they had to pass by it. In my opinion, it should be located in the desolate hinterland - AKA Family Camping. :)
McCool
Finn, I'm glad you read my welcome and relief over the safety and good experience of your kids before it was deleted.
Your family and my concern for them was truly the reason I started this thread.
Cheers!
Finn - let me also welcome you to our humble forums. I'll be out at TRF a few more times this season, so give me a holler if you see me out there.
Im happy to see them at trf I would love to see the gate hand out signs for every one. if you dont want anyone under 21 in my camp. I would make my own.I have been going to trf for 15 years I have 3 kids. When they were old enuff they could go with me. Yes It was before they was 21 but they were teenagers and already having sex.For the last 4 years I have been up set because folks under age 16 run wild. THey think the fire and drums is a babysitter.I start saving when in come in from trf. so I can go to trf. I am a adult, love there is a camp ground that i can have adult fun. I understand the kids like to come to see the fire and drums.but at 10:00 and after keep your kid in your campsite in the Quite camp. It part of having kids. last year there was so many young kids running all around I called trf and email them about all the kidds. Me and all the ones I have taken with me love to come back. we could not have fun not enuff moms and dad to take care of there own kids. after that. I was going this year. and if it was still like this I was going to quit going. I just got back today. all the moms and dad at trf. Thank you for having your kids at there camp
SO eveyone over 21 could have some fun.It is always a new adventure. I truly love trf. Ill see yall for the 16 year. Bondage camp dont let just a few run you off I have the big wood
I camped by them last year. and had no issue. They kept thier activities confined to thier area. Other than the sound of a whip or paddle i didnt even know they were there. Its not my type of life style but to each his own as long as its legal.
We monitored there activities this weekend and was happy with the efforts to hide their activities and respect others.
I have not actually ever attended Bondage Camp, but I know many who have, and I've had occasion over the years to visit other parts of patron camp (I can admit that, now that I dont' work out there anymore? lol). From what I've witnessed personally out in patron camp, and what others have confirmed on this thread, there is potential nudity and sexually suggestive activity going on in any number of camps out there, on any given night. Bondage camp differentiates itself in two ways:
1) They openly warn passers-by and camp wanderers of what they are doing, so that visitors on walkabout aren't accidentally exposed to things they might find shocking or upsetting... would that ALL camps were as conscientious about the sensibilities of their neighbors, I have on more than one occasion gone visiting and unexpectedly come upon some pretty, erm, *adult* activities - some of dubious legality.
2) They make a concerted effort to obscure their activities from direct line-of-sight visibility from roadways and thoroughfares. Again, when things get rowdy and racy in other camps, it can be pretty visible. I know I've seen it, from a car driving by.
It is unfortunate that a small number of the members of this camp were less than diplomatic in their dealings with neighbors during set-up; I strongly suspect that this was a case of someone either trying to be considerate VERY clumsily, or someone lower on the totem pole being a little confused about how exactly they were supposed to handle set-up coordination with neighbors. Personally knowing the organizers, and having witnessed much of the communication around the planning of the event, I can guarantee that this is a group that takes respecting its neighbors and maintaining a good relationship with the campground VERY seriously. Individuals who violate the rules and guidelines they set up specifically to avoid upsetting the neighborhood are NOT welcome back in following years. To that end, I'll be happy to pass on the concerns re: set-up and "landgrabbing", and posting signage earlier to the organizers, as they are very committed to making sure that toes are not stepped on.
Ok, now I'll give my 2cents. I know some of the organizers of Bondage Camp and did step in and say hello and watch for a little while both Friday and Saturday night. I know that in the organizing the plan was to have RV's parked around the perimeter to try to "shield" the main areas and the "play" area was in the far end along the camping boundary with tarp curtains hung to conceal activity. They had their own security who checked IDs on anyone who looked too young and even kicked people out who were gawking or watching just for kicks and being disrespectful. That whole community is about tolerance, privacy and respect. That said, there can always be a few bad apples in any group.
I have much less of a problem with Bondage Camp and the way they do things than I do with the 20somethings that drove right up into our camp that Saturday morning about 10am (my clan puts flags up around our staked out area so that it's evident there is a boundary), were either already drunk or still drunk and started putting up a tent right next to where we were eating breakfast. We politely told them they were in a clan camping area and showed them a large open area they could put up their tents and then proceeded to let our neighbors know so we would all watch our things and each others things. And we camp on the border of quiet camping!
You folks who posted recently realize that my original post was entered two years ago, right?? I wasn't at trf this past year for Bondage Camp weekend, so I can't comment.