Hello, all.
After closing weekend on the campgrounds I thought I would come by and get some advice from some of you folks who are in long-standing clans.
My clan, The H.O.R.D., has just completed its second official season as a camping clan. We used to camp at D-22 (a stone's throw from procrastination) for many years before we were 'official,' and up until last year. Now that the campgrounds have been renovated, we were forced opening weekend of this year to move our camp onto the hill at C-22, because a road runs directly through part of our old campsite.
That's not the issue, it's a much better camping spot.
The issue is that last (closing) weekend, we were beat by members of naughtyham to our camping site by a matter of minutes. Several of our members at that time discussed with their representatives the fact that we were expecting a large group of rowdy individuals and that we usually camp directly where they were in the process of setting up their main tent. They informed us that they were expecting something like 30 people, though they didn't seem to have half that number by the end of the weekend. Our camp count was around 20 for the weekend.
I was not there for the initial discourse, but the end result was that we set our camp up a very short distance from where we have been and the two clans shared the hilltop for the weekend. Again, no problems here, though it was a little disappointing to camp in a different spot and to have to re-direct people who usually come to visit us.
Naughtyham camp set up their tents on wednesday and apparently abandoned it until late thursday night.
Friday morning, our camp wakes up to make it to the opening gates for cannon. Our typical morning routine began as normal: cowbells and mead horns blaring, huzzahs resounding, until everyone was awake and ready to roll.
Later that day, upon returning from faire, one of our newly-arrived campers told us of an exchange of words regarding our morning routine. Apparently, some of the naughtyham group were upset about us blaring 'car horns' so early in the morning.
First of all, no one touched a car horn. We may be loud, but we have a little more class than that.
That night, around 2 am, a (definite) car horn from their camp pierced through the night, lasting something like 20-30 seconds. Joining into the revelry, we began to cheer and blast mead horns in response. Later, it came to our attention that, perhaps, that car horn was passive-aggressive retaliation from that morning.
To my knowledge, there were no further interactions that weekend.
It is one thing to get to camp and have to alter plans somewhat due to someone else arriving earlier. It's significantly more annoying when that group of people turns out to be another clan who misrepresents the number of people that they are expecting and then expects you to alter the way you enjoy your weekend because they suddenly decided to move their camp (along with generators and light pollution) halfway across the campgrounds, next to you.
At this time, we have no intentions of moving, nor do we intend to skip the wakeup call period on the day(s) that we attend for cannon.
My question to you members of long-standing clans is this: How do you claim and keep your camping spots? How do you handle encroachments by people who complain about the things that you do and have done every year previous? Am I more bothered than I should be?
We usually have a fantastic time mingling with our neighbors, sharing in the revelry. This year, though, was lacking in that department.
According to the rules, camping spots are "first come, first served". So about all you can do is arrange to have site stakers get there early.
Quote from: xed on December 02, 2013, 11:34:09 AM
Friday morning, our camp wakes up to make it to the opening gates for cannon. Our typical morning routine began as normal: cowbells and mead horns blaring, huzzahs resounding, until everyone was awake and ready to roll.
I didn't camp this weekend but I fear this act would really anger me if I had to listen to this. I also like to get to the gate before cannon but I try NOT to disturm the people around me. I just don't understand why any one would go out of their way to be an inconsiderate camping neighbor, justifying it by "being rowdy"
Guess I am just getting old and cranky...
Really not much that can be done about it since its first come first claim. I missed camping with my clan this weekend because by the time I got there Friday it my normal spots were all filled. I hear your morning wake up but since I was all ready awake it didn't bother me any. Certainly nothing like the annoyance the ravers camped between us caused me.
KeeperoftheBear:
See, that's just it.
Nowhere did I say that we went out of our way to be inconsiderate. What I said was that we conducted business as usual. Going out of one's way would be spiteful. We had no measure of spite whatsoever for naughtyham, though we will not be changing our longstanding routines because another clan has decided that they don't like their usual spot.
We are young. We stay up late and we wake up early.
We've never had issues with neighboring camps before, not once.
8/10 times, the mead horn blasts are met with the same from other camps. I hardly see that as inconsiderate. We don't belch and moan when other camps make noise; we know where we are and why we have come.
I also don't see any other clans fighting over camping space, so there MUST be some measure of understanding that exists between clans as to who typically camps where. That's all I'm asking for.
If you want to camp next to us, that's fine. Just know what you're getting yourself into. And in this case, they were roundly warned. I'm not saying we play loud music all night; we don't. But if you're near a H.O.R.D. camp, you WILL hear the acoustic sounds of people enjoying themselves most thoroughly.
That's what I thought the campgrounds were all about.
SirRichardBear:
Are you saying you were camped near us? We've talked on the forums but I'm not sure that we've actually met in person...We should remedy that next year!
EDIT: After re-reading your post, I can't say that I'm familiar with any ravers being camped around us. Were you near C-22? I know I said behind D-0 in my OP, but that was wrong, it was behind D-22. For some reason, my memory keeps recalling a map of the campgrounds that had negative integers at the top?
As a further note, I think it's a bit screwy that the official TRF 'fliers' say that the campground opens at noon the day before. We typically show up 16+ hours earlier than that and we're usually 30+ on the car tag.
Can anyone verify exactly what time everything opens? I've heard as early as 10am the wednesday of closing weekend. That's more than 24hours before what's posted. I understand why this is done, but it is a bit unfair to those of us who drive long distances to participate.
Quote from: xed on December 02, 2013, 01:05:45 PM
KeeperoftheBear:
See, that's just it.
Nowhere did I say that we went out of our way to be inconsiderate. What I said was that we conducted business as usual. Going out of one's way would be spiteful. We had no measure of spite whatsoever for naughtyham, though we will not be changing our longstanding routines because another clan has decided that they don't like their usual spot.
We are young. We stay up late and we wake up early.
We've never had issues with neighboring camps before, not once.
8/10 times, the mead horn blasts are met with the same from other camps. I hardly see that as inconsiderate. We don't belch and moan when other camps make noise; we know where we are and why we have come.
I also don't see any other clans fighting over camping space, so there MUST be some measure of understanding that exists between clans as to who typically camps where. That's all I'm asking for.
If you want to camp next to us, that's fine. Just know what you're getting yourself into. And in this case, they were roundly warned. I'm not saying we play loud music all night; we don't. But if you're near a H.O.R.D. camp, you WILL hear the acoustic sounds of people enjoying themselves most thoroughly.
That's what I thought the campgrounds were all about.
Well Sir, I do not mean to distress you but I am humbly submitting my opinion. I do not have a problem with people enjoying themselves as long as they don't infringe on others. So I ask you two questions:
Do you realize that some people in the campground do not follow your schedule and like to sleep in?
Do you understand that the noise you create extends past the borders of your camp?
If your answers are both yes, then I fear I must label you as inconsiderate.
However, I am sure you will not allow that to restrain you nor cause you any loss of sleep.
America...Where people can disagree and still bend an elbow together.
I understand your points, and didn't intend to come off as confrontational. My apologies.
The thing is, I think back to how many drunk people I've had walk through my tent, how many times I've been woken up overnight, how many times I've been woken up earlier than my preference, the retaliatory car horn at 230 am, etc etc etc...And I move on.
Why?
Because I am aware that I am at a semi-public camping space. I am aware that not everyone's sleep patterns conform to mine. I am aware that everyone's idea of a good time differs. Once again: I know where I am and why I/others am/are there.
I don't waltz myself into another camp and belch out demands that that camp conform to my own opinion of proper camping, particularly when said camp has explained to me beforehand exactly what to expect. So why should I be subjected to the same?
We abide by a strict live and let live policy. Sometimes we are inconvenienced by others. Sometimes we inconvenience others. It's all a part of the TRF camping experience. As I've said before, it's not like we blare music all night or haul in generators that sound like cement mixers. Hell, we even make it a point NOT to walk directly through other camps without an introduction because that would be rude (a luxury that we were not afforded this weekend, or most weekends actually).
Following your two-question formula, it could be concluded that even something so simple as breakfast could be considered 'inconsiderate'.
Does everyone love the smell of cooking bacon?
Does the smell of your cooking bacon extend beyond your camping area?
Am I going to walk into your campsite in the morning, because I smell you cooking bacon, and demand that you stop cooking bacon for breakfast because I am a vegan and hate the smell of bacon? Or should I just deal with it for a short while and let you do your thing?
(Before you ask, I personally love bacon and have been awakened many times by that beautiful smell)
Lastly, I am also aware that there is a quiet camping area. What I do not understand is the fact that there seem to be SO MANY people who want a quiet, peaceful camping experience, but when I walk through quiet camping on my way to meet new arrivals at the camping gate, the place is so empty. Not a soul around to accept the very thing that they've been begging for.
For the record, we did go out of our way to be very quiet in the enormous empty field that makes up quiet camping. I say we went out of our way because we were NOT conducting business as usual.
Isn't that exactly what so many people say that they want? An enormous, empty, quiet space to lay one's head and not be disturbed?
Can a person who wants to party and then sleep in silence not walk from their quiet camping area to the party area and back once they've had their fill?
Either way, though, I had intended this thread to get some advice as to when/how to arrive in order to ensure that our usual camping spot is available. Other clans seem to have no problems regarding this issue, so I was hoping someone would be able to share a secret or two.
EDIT: The best part about the car horn retaliation is that no one in our camp was even close to asleep. We returned the effort with raucous cheering. It was great.
What time does this morning routine happen? If it starts too early I would be upset as well.
As far as when the campgrounds open, it usually opens earlier than they say so most of the big clans get at least one person there very early.
Something like 7-8 am. Early enough for our clan members to garb up and get to the gates for opening. We're here to go to the faire, right?
Our first members arrived at 5pm Wednesday, if I'm not mistaken.
Apparently, 19 hours early is still late!
Next year, hopefully, we'll be waiting in line. :)
I was camping in section 8 section 10 is just above the wash right along the back road correct? I heard the horns but it wasn't very loud. The ravers were along the back road in a big blue tent and were very loud. I'll keep an eye out for you next season.
I think I am somewhat in agreement with Keeperofthebar here, though maybe not quite as black and white.
And I would have to ask, Brother Xed - you came to ask for opinions of those that camp, but seem to have already made up your mind what's "right" :)
I would say, as others have said to me, the encompassing word in the campground should be "Respect". While I LOVE traditions and shared experience, and love the idea of a "Out of time", magical campground, I would say that some common sense needs to be applied to each situation.
In this instance, IMHO, your tradition of blowing horns and shouting at 7am has a very high possibility of annoying the hell out of someone who greatly desires (or needs) to sleep in a bit :). You give by way of justification the comparison of someone cooking bacon, however there really is no comparison, if we're being honest.
A more "apples to apples" comparison may be the clan that says, we have a 3am tradition of marching around our camp singing "The Drunken Sailor" at the top of our lungs while banging drums and cymbals. We're here to be pirates, right? A pirates life for us!! This is how we pirates turn in for the evening, our way of saying goodnight to each other.
Now, would you think folks might have a right to take umbrage at that clans tradition? We in Clan Dragonborn go to bed around midnight, and try our best to get 8 hours of sleep, so I would be a bit annoyed with both of you! I do try to hold to the "live and let live" motto, though, and if truly bothered would move my camp rather than start an argument.
However, if forced to do so, I wouldn't have a very high opinion of the H.O.R.D. Some people live their lives saying "to hell with everyone else - I'm going to do what I want to do!", but i wouldn't want to be around them very much.
Restrained from replying to let the other folks put forth their responses.
Yes, the campgrounds are first-come, first-served. Just because a clan/group has been camping in one area for years doesn't mean they can expect to get the same spot if they are late arriving.
The official word is "The campgrounds gate will be open at noon Friday". Note that it doesn't state that "The campgrounds gate will be opening at noon Friday". Those strong on English may need to explain this difference to the folks who couldn't pass 10th grade English. The Faire has the flexibility to open earlier if the campgrounds are ready to receive (i.e., all the trash from the teenage campers who Mother's couldn't attend and clean up after them has been picked up). Also, the security force has to be in-place and ready to receive.
If you have a problem with adjacent campers (too close, Ravers, loud noise, uninvited trips into your camp, bad body odor, etc.) please contact the security force. They continuously patrol the campgrounds. Also, the contact number is posted all over the campgrounds. If all you want is a gentle reminder of the campgrounds rules to the problem children before sunset, please flag me down (I'm the old phart on the Mule). My main function is to point newcomers to the camping areas that meet their requirements and to remind folks about the posted rules.
As far as horn-blowing just before opening cannon, that may be a tradition. However, horn blowing at 2 AM may result in ejection from the campgrounds (as two individuals found out in 2012). Remember, you have about 8,000 neighbors who may not be as festive as you in the early hours.
Refresher - In the general campgrounds, all amplified music is limited to 85 Db (that's decibels) at 10 feet from the sound source (i.e., speaker) and not 10 feet from the music tent. In the General campgrounds, all amplified music must cease at midnight. Note that generators are exempt, along with drumming and other unamplified music.
Okay, what did I miss? See everyone next TRF season, or at Sherwood Forest Faire for the 2014 season.
First off, I feel like we're coming off as a bunch of jerks here. I feel the need to reiterate the fact that we have never once had any issue with neighboring camps until this weekend, and we've never done anything differently.
That being said:
Quote from: BarbarianQueen on December 02, 2013, 05:47:02 PM
And I would have to ask, Brother Xed - you came to ask for opinions of those that camp, but seem to have already made up your mind what's "right" :)
My true question was one of how current clans reserve their camping spots. It would seem that the unanimous answer to that question is to get there even earlier. I'm pretty sure someone in my clan can handle that, we've already got a few who are planning to show up absurdly early next year to prove a point. I also plan my vacation time around this event, but being that the drive takes me almost a full day, I'm already at a disadvantage.
As for any other topics of discussion, I digress, though it looks like that's what the thread is about now, so I may as well just go with it.
Quote from: PollyPoPo on December 02, 2013, 07:16:57 PM
As for your early morning routine of cow bells and mead horns, perhaps enough people will remember the name H.O.R.D clan, and the early risers camped nearby will not feel the need to restrain themselves when they feel like belting out the Barney song at 5:00 a.m. when they are having their first cup of coffee. After all, live and let live.
Indeed. In fact, that would probably get us up a little earlier and make the trip to the gates a little easier. We still have some trouble, even with the wakeup call! :D
Quote from: mpullen on December 02, 2013, 07:46:30 PM
The official word is "The campgrounds gate will be open at noon Friday". Note that it doesn't state that "The campgrounds gate will be opening at noon Friday".
If you have a problem with adjacent campers (too close, Ravers, loud noise, uninvited trips into your camp, bad body odor, etc.) please contact the security force. They continuously patrol the campgrounds. Also, the contact number is posted all over the campgrounds. If all you want is a gentle reminder of the campgrounds rules to the problem children before sunset, please flag me down (I'm the old phart on the Mule). My main function is to point newcomers to the camping areas that meet their requirements and to remind folks about the posted rules.
As far as horn-blowing just before opening cannon, that may be a tradition. However, horn blowing at 2 AM may result in ejection from the campgrounds (as two individuals found out in 2012). Remember, you have about 8,000 neighbors who may not be as festive as you in the early hours.
Refresher - In the general campgrounds, all amplified music is limited to 85 Db (that's decibels) at 10 feet from the sound source (i.e., speaker) and not 10 feet from the music tent. In the General campgrounds, all amplified music must cease at midnight. Note that generators are exempt, along with drumming and other unamplified music.
Hi, Mr. Mike, I didn't know that was you!
First of all, thanks for everything that you do. It's truly a joy to see your smiling face making the rounds early in the weekend. I've heard lots about you from Clan Procrastination; next year I'll have to flag you down and introduce myself rather than just wave.
I definitely understand the difference in wording now that it's been pointed out, though I had no idea that the translation was meant to be taken so literally.
As for me calling the police, the problem would have to be pretty extreme for me to invite any of those guys near my camp. Their sourpuss expressions as they patrol are enough for me. Ever tried telling one of those guys hi? They're nowhere near as cheerful as you are, I can tell you that much.
I've got no intention of horn blowing at 2 am, that would be ridiculous. I'm not sure what picture you've got of us here, but a wakeup call between 7 and 8 am is a far cry from blowing a horn (or a drunken sailor march) at 2 (or 3), in my opinion. None of that goes on in my camp, which is a large part of why I feel it's so absurd to be upset over a few horn blasts once the sun is already up. I'm not sure if you were referring to us with the comment or not, but it was the other camp with the 2 am car horn.
Is there a particular time that the noise ban lifted in the morning? I've known about and respected since its induction the midnight cutoff, but I've never heard any word (or even thought about, honestly) regarding what time in the morning I would be considered 'breaking the rules' by making noise.
Ah, youth! "But this is what WE like to do. So, it MUST be ok! The rest of you must be wrong".
So, YOU GUYS like to get up early in order to be at the gate open. Awesome! Love the enthusiasm and unity. SOMEONE needs to be there at opening Canon, right?
Others, however, May have other traditions, like waxing eloquent with their friends late into the night, sharing stories and catching up around the fire. Their tradition then may also include sleeping in a bit and then sharing coffee together before heading to faire.
BOTH traditions have merit and validity. But, one, with the blowing of horns and shouting, seems to be more forcefully infringing on the other's rights. Again, it seems o come down to respect.
Maybe instead of blowing horns to wake up your clan, you could just throw buckets of ice water on the slow ones. That would be much quieter...except for the shocked screaming, I guess.
Quote from: BarbarianQueen on December 03, 2013, 01:23:18 AM
Maybe instead of blowing horns to wake up your clan, you could just throw buckets of ice water on the slow ones. That would be much quieter...except for the shocked screaming, I guess.
Snort. I love that comment.
We no longer camp. We have our sleeping schedule so that we get to the gate at 7:30ish and enjoy a bottle of wine and breakfast while we watch everyone else arrive. We have considered RV camping for some point in the future but the ravers, drummers et al are just too unpredictable for us. I do have a tendency towards violence when shocked out of sleep. So its safer for all around if I don't camp.
Quote from: DonaCatalina on December 03, 2013, 05:25:58 AM... I do have a tendency towards violence when shocked out of sleep. So its safer for all around if I don't camp.
Put you and Nimue together (she's the same way) and we could control the entire camp grounds! ;D
There is always noise in the campgrounds in the morning, whether it's from mead horns or someone blasting the Dropkick Murphy's on their car stereo at 7am. We camp in one of the quieter sections of the general grounds, but the sounds are still there. There has never been anything particularly shocking about it, since the venue is, after all, mostly a party venue. Particularly on the big 3 weekends. Mead horns create a lovely music... they are not like obnoxious alarm clocks, but more like an extended musical note borne on the breeze, reminiscent of the very era we are all there to celebrate and emulate. I can't really imagine a much nicer way to awaken, actually. I'm not quite as fond of shouting, but I'm guessing it's not everyone in your camp getting together to scream at the top of their lungs in the hopes of waking the rest of the campgrounds, correct?
It seems that most everyone here is intent on turning this into something it may actually not be... and, if you haven't experienced it then how can you judge it? Have any of you, personally, been woken up by this clan? If not, then how invasive can it really be?
It's really beginning to sound like a bunch of cantankerous old folks telling the kids to "get off my lawn!!!"...
It does seem, though, that if you are not interested in being around any noise then you would choose to camp in a quieter area of the grounds, and not in "party central", which would seem to be the area that was mentioned (if it's on "the hill" then it IS the central party area)... just as I will not be camping next door to the "Naked" camp with my 12 y/o daughter...
Even though there are rules to keep the general public from coming in to camp, and there ARE now rules stating that everyone must have a ticket, and NOT just a single ticket per car load, it is still a place where a majority of the people come to party, whatever form that party takes. Faire just happens to be one PART of their party... but different people celebrate in different ways, and anyone who tries to decree that THEIR way is the ONLY acceptable way is most likely going to alienate just about everyone else around them. There is no single right way OR wrong way... and as long as everyone is following the "rules" as laid out by management then there isn't really much anyone can do to change a particular behavior... they can only choose to remove themselves from the area, and find somewhere more conducive to their own idea of what makes for a good party.
Personally, I have never had a problem with others yelling out "HUZZAH!!!"... either in the campgrounds OR in Faire... and I generally echo the sentiment.
Quote from: Rani Zemirah on December 03, 2013, 10:09:12 AM
It does seem, though, that if you are not interested in being around any noise then you would choose to camp in a quieter area of the grounds, and not in "party central", which would seem to be the area that was mentioned (if it's on "the hill" then it IS the central party area)... just as I will not be camping next door to the "Naked" camp with my 12 y/o daughter...
We are DEEP in normal camping. We intentionally chose a spot far, far away from quiet camping, and have moved farther since the campgrounds have expanded.
Quote from: Rani Zemirah on December 03, 2013, 10:09:12 AM
Personally, I have never had a problem with others yelling out "HUZZAH!!!"... either in the campgrounds OR in Faire... and I generally echo the sentiment.
I honestly thought that this was the general consensus. Who'da thunk it?
With all the talk of thugs, theives, etc., I believe we're getting a worse name than we ever would've if I had just kept my mouth shut and never said anything.
Sorry about that.
While we're on the subject, though, perhaps your talk about thinking that what we experience/want to experience is the norm goes both ways. I know for a fact we aren't the only camp (or clan, for that matter) who goes out to party, being that there's so much buzz about that sort of thing exactly.
With that being said, I'm done here. I never intended to start a thread to bicker with any of you, or which relates my group of campers/friends to theives and thugs.
I'll see you all next season, hope you have a great year.
Quote from: xed on December 03, 2013, 10:32:16 AM
Quote from: Rani Zemirah on December 03, 2013, 10:09:12 AM
It does seem, though, that if you are not interested in being around any noise then you would choose to camp in a quieter area of the grounds, and not in "party central", which would seem to be the area that was mentioned (if it's on "the hill" then it IS the central party area)... just as I will not be camping next door to the "Naked" camp with my 12 y/o daughter...
We are DEEP in normal camping. We intentionally chose a spot far, far away from quiet camping, and have moved farther since the campgrounds have expanded.
Quote from: Rani Zemirah on December 03, 2013, 10:09:12 AM
Personally, I have never had a problem with others yelling out "HUZZAH!!!"... either in the campgrounds OR in Faire... and I generally echo the sentiment.
I honestly thought that this was the general consensus. Who'da thunk it?
I'm wondering if some of the other posters here thought that maybe you were just yelling EVERYTHING, instead of this one oh-so-appropriate show of vocal enthusiasm? And maybe they were under the impression that you were, for some reason, gathering the entire clan to yell it out together, as a way of waking OTHER camps, instead of just a spontaneous shout now and then, echoed, no doubt, by other nearby campers who are also excited to be there? And perhaps the mead horn reference was mistaken for some other type of horn, perhaps amplified, and not the lovely viking horns that are sold in so many shops throughout the lanes of every Faire?
It can be all too easy to arrive at conclusions that seem to be supported by the "evidence" that one chooses to focus on... while ignoring anything that supports any other scenario. I find that it is generally a good idea to gather a bit more information before making a leap that might be difficult to backtrack from... ;)
I am personally a bit disappointed at the whole "villagers with pitchforks and torches" mentality that seems to be emerging here! I can tell when someone is being ganged up on, and I see it happening right here. Xed never said anything at all about being confrontational with anyone at all... and in fact, related a tale about another camp/clan retaliating in a very passive/aggressive manner to something they didn't like, instead of asking nicely for a small concession... or instead of heeding the information that their new camping spot choice was, indeed, in the middle of an area that DOES get loud, from MANY sources... and has been in the past.
I don't recall any of this type of lambasting being handed out when the Naked Camp was stating that it WOULD be living up to it's namesake, and anyone who didn't like it could find another place to camp... or any of the OTHER adult themed camps, for that matter... so apparently I, with my 12 year old daughter, would be expected to either put up with it, or MOVE... but that only holds true for people who don't like what they SEE... and not for those who don't care for what the HEAR?!?
Since when did such a clearly double standard take such deep root in this forum? Do as I say, and not as I do? I don't think so...
Rani love, I don't think we are being "villagers with pitchforks" but rather having a civil discourse with each side expressing their opinions. I certainly meant no disrespect nor would I want to prohibit Xed from having fun. A nice horn blowing in the distance and a spontaneous "HAZZAH" certainly convey the feeling that we all seek. However, from his inital description it sounds like Xed's group is less spontaneous and more orchastrated in their morning ritual. Possibly I jump to conclusions that aren't warranted.
Personally, I love the quiet of camp in the morning, with the crispness of the air and the sounds of birds in the trees. Being aware that I am up and about before a fair percentage of the campground, I try to minimize the noise I make. This is the way I was raised and as I am getting older I have trouble comprehending any other attitude. I am not making judgements on the correctness of anyone's actions. I live the way I like, trying to avoid imposing on others as much as possible, rejoicing when meeting others of like mind and tolerating those of different mind.
Xed, I hope next year we can meet, hoist a few ales and discuss weighty issues (like if Adam & Eve had belly buttons and if so, why?)
Is it October 9th 2014 yet? I need to go stake my claim for Clan Destiny!!
Xed, we try to camp just down the road from you. Saw you setup at that location Opening Weekend, but also saw NaughtyHam and others throughout other weekends.
(This also goes for BarbarianQueen's question on etiquette)
And while I have arrived late to see my preferred location taken, and we have definitely been encroached by others, we definitely try to be vocal about things, both good and bad. "Hey, can you guys keep it down, my buddy's still asleep." "Hey, can you guys go around this way to your tent so you won't be bumping into her new car." or simply, "Hey Mr Officer, these guys are obviously drunk, they have been tripping on our tent, are being belligerent. Could you please just keep an eye on them since we would hate to see an altercation develop." We have also made good friends of polite neighbors and invited them to let us know when they are coming so we can make room for them to camp next to us.
Why isnt the opening time set? I dont know. I have been #17 Barbarian weekend, #45 Opening, and #35 Hallow's Eve, and my only comment is "Darnit! I wish I had snuck out of work sooner!!" But I am very fortunate to be able to take sick and personal days during TRF season (my boss is a fan).
But to answer your original questions:
"How do You claim and keep your camping spots?"
I or a clan member gets to campgrounds as early as possible before Friday at noon. Set up as many of others' tents, place others' groundcloths where their tent will lay etc. Sometimes that requires the hardship and sacrifice of camping on Thursday and enjoying the company in merriment of other clans. After enough time (and looking at LadyJessica's map) we try to respect each other's established claims. But even that doesnt guarantee that a newbie will jumbp right in.
I believe I answered on encroachment, but I also practice the Golden Rule, treat others as you would like to be treated. Sometimes I prefer to sleep in than go to Opening Cannon, but I won't lie and say I haven't answered someone else's horn call just after Cannon.
And with that I will say that I believe you are more bothered than you should be.
I hope I answered your questions.
~Lord Hector_
I don't expect camp to be a hotel where I can expect to get an uninterupted nights rest. Even in Quiet Camp it can't be completely guaranteed with people getting lost, wandering, etc. Heck the Steel Dragon blasting its horn will wake everyone as it goes by in the dark hours.
I usually wake up when the light starts coming through the tent or a bit before then. I use Cannon as my alarm clock to get ready lol. It's a long day inside faire so I try to pace myself. Mimosas help with that! ;D
Quote from: Rani Zemirah on December 03, 2013, 12:59:53 PM
I don't recall any of this type of lambasting being handed out when the Naked Camp was stating that it WOULD be living up to it's namesake, and anyone who didn't like it could find another place to camp...
A bit of a strong statement. I believe what I typed was -
Quote from: BarbarianQueen on November 06, 2013, 08:04:34 AM
Rest assured, Camp Naked Knights and Disrobed Damsels will be tucked away in a quiet corner somewhere in the old or new camp, with good screening and warnings, far from impressionable young eyes, and, like Shangri La, the only way to find it will be through sheer luck, help from the Barbarian God's, or if the Barbarian Queen smiles upon you and imparts the secret directions... ;D
and
Quote from: BarbarianQueen on December 01, 2013, 03:51:38 PM
I can tell you one thing- with a group of impressionable 20 year olds sharing our front living area, Camp NK&DD did NOT live up to it's name :) (well, because of that and the frigid weather Friday Night).
- Just to set the record straight. ;)
Lets' just put the cards on the table - what we're talking about here are two questions -
1. Is the "loud Camping area" a place where partial-anarchy is acceptable? Ie. is no activity "off limits" other than the concrete rules of the camping brochure?
2. Secondly, if there are
unwritten understandings about activities not expressly stated, then are there some traditions that are deemed more acceptable than others?
Of course, if the answer to #1 is "no", and #2 "Yes", then a whole host of other questions pop up.
I, for one, would vote for anarchy!
Like most of you, I come to TRF camping to get away from rules, 21st century societal constraints, and the reminders of just how complicated and restrained our culture has become. I would hate to lose the wild and wooly freedom of the TRF "loud" campgrounds! Long live the revellers! For truly, I am one.
However, as I have stated I think before, a society/culture governed only by anarchy tends to collapse on itself eventually. Things fall apart and a stronger authority steps in and says "everybody out of the pool!". In camping at TRF for 10 years, I have seen the "wild and wooly" begin to morph into the "mean-spirited and nasty" more and more each year (NOTE - I'm not referring to HORD or you, Xed!!). I dread the day it goes too far and someone steps in to put a halt to it all.
However, I think "civil discourse", as referred to by Keeperofthebar above (and what I personally would classify this thread), helps to define and shape the barriers and limits of our little culture before they get out of hand. It's good to Hear from the new generation, like Xed, and the old farts, like me (yes, I'm older than most of you, I believe). I consider us all a part of the same extended family.
Alas, strong but good-hearted debate without animosity or personal attack is a disappearing art, I'm afraid.
My apologies If I've said anything on a personal level that offendeth someone.
Quote from: xed on December 03, 2013, 12:42:48 PM
With that being said, I'm done here. I never intended to start a thread to bicker with any of you, or which relates my group of campers/friends to theives and thugs.
I'll see you all next season, hope you have a great year.
"Oh, oh, I see, running away then, are we?. You yellow bastard! Come back here and take what's coming to you.
I'll bite your legs off!"(name the movie for extra points!)
There seems to be some misunderstandings and whatnot going on.
Xed, I see where you are coming from and I've threatened my clanmates with my brass foghorn, a time or two, and gotten the response... "Blow that damn thing at my tent, at 7am, and i'll shove it ** **** ***". Although with most, I'd actually like to see them try, (nothing like a good, half hungover, morning brawl to get the blood pumping) I have yet to break out this most annoying tool in my arsenal... key word being "YET". I would say, let your neighbors actions dictate your morning ritual. As far as traditional spots, having a landgrabber in place when the gates open is the best way to get "your" spot. My clan has had people pitch camp along our borders and usually a heads up to them about our camping style is enough for them to either join the party or scoot over a bit. Being friendly and bringing booze, when introducing your group, USUALLY smooths things out.
Notice I'm saying "usually" a lot... you'll run across cranky, uptight people out there, on occasion, and there will be no talking to them. PR had a group, with a loud Chinese generator, that seemed hell bent on causing trouble a year or two ago... Even after being told to go F themselves, Teach and his people were the soul of courtesy. It was a rough go but they let them slide... sort of. ;)
Every camp is different... most of us who love this are tolerant of other groups and the way they do things... we chalk it up to being part of the experience of camping at TRF. No one here wants to bicker and this medium is probably the worst for actual peaceful debate and discussion, since emotions aren't properly conveyed. I've seen the ugly specter of discord arise on here more than once this year and have been disappointed by this...I thought we all got past this a few years back, people. :o :( :-[ Everyone needs to draw in their claws, let their hackles down and think about this in the off season. Next year is the 40th anniversary of TRF and i plan to make it fanfreakingtastic... lets all, as R/F members, aim at this goal.
The floor is open. My rant is done.
*steps down off of soapbox*
Well Said
Quote from: BarbarianQueen on December 03, 2013, 08:35:43 PM
Quote from: xed on December 03, 2013, 12:42:48 PM
With that being said, I'm done here. I never intended to start a thread to bicker with any of you, or which relates my group of campers/friends to theives and thugs.
I'll see you all next season, hope you have a great year.
"Oh, oh, I see, running away then, are we?. You yellow bastard! Come back here and take what's coming to you.
I'll bite your legs off!"
(name the movie for extra points!)
I'm afraid, my lady, that I've already racked up all the bonus points from quoting/calling monty python sketches/films allowable by law. Now I just need a place to spend them.
Quote from: Laird Fraser of Lovatt on December 04, 2013, 06:57:50 AM
There seems to be some misunderstandings and whatnot going on.
Xed, I see where you are coming from and I've threatened my clanmates with my brass foghorn, a time or two, and gotten the response... "Blow that damn thing at my tent, at 7am, and i'll shove it ** **** ***". Although with most, I'd actually like to see them try, (nothing like a good, half hungover, morning brawl to get the blood pumping) I have yet to break out this most annoying tool in my arsenal... key word being "YET". I would say, let your neighbors actions dictate your morning ritual. As far as traditional spots, having a landgrabber in place when the gates open is the best way to get "your" spot. My clan has had people pitch camp along our borders and usually a heads up to them about our camping style is enough for them to either join the party or scoot over a bit. Being friendly and bringing booze, when introducing your group, USUALLY smooths things out.
Notice I'm saying "usually" a lot... you'll run across cranky, uptight people out there, on occasion, and there will be no talking to them. PR had a group, with a loud Chinese generator, that seemed hell bent on causing trouble a year or two ago... Even after being told to go F themselves, Teach and his people were the soul of courtesy. It was a rough go but they let them slide... sort of. ;)
Every camp is different... most of us who love this are tolerant of other groups and the way they do things... we chalk it up to being part of the experience of camping at TRF. No one here wants to bicker and this medium is probably the worst for actual peaceful debate and discussion, since emotions aren't properly conveyed. I've seen the ugly specter of discord arise on here more than once this year and have been disappointed by this...I thought we all got past this a few years back, people. :o :( :-[ Everyone needs to draw in their claws, let their hackles down and think about this in the off season. Next year is the 40th anniversary of TRF and i plan to make it fanfreakingtastic... lets all, as R/F members, aim at this goal.
The floor is open. My rant is done.
*steps down off of soapbox*
This is the type of response I was hoping for. Thank you, Fraser, for reintroducing the lost art of civility.
My clanmates tend to threaten the same thing, but they've never attempted anything of the sort. They usually wake up cursing my name, drink a cup of coffee, and then go on with their lives at the wonderful and exciting Texas Renaissance Festival. By the end of the day, most of them are usually happy for the few extra hours of enjoyment, sponsored by a moment of annoyance.
As a sidenote, I'd love to hear the brass foghorn sometime.
I was actually hoping to hear some stories about how this clan or the other lost their camping spots for a year or two, and returned with a vengeance to sleep in the campground line while waiting for the gates to be opened. Perhaps some "you are not alone" type of stuff.
I had no intention or desire for any bickering whatsoever.
It's all good, Xed. I've been a Landgrabber for McShuggenah and been sitting at the gates at 0 dark 30, on Thursday morning, for AHE. I'm "usually" the first at the gates... after a half a bottle of loki, setting up camp can suck but it's a vital duty if you want an exact spot. ;)
As i said... this medium sucks for conveying emotions. Sarcasm and humor sometimes don't come across correctly. I haven't run across a true a**clown on here in years, so i'm pretty sure that a lot of this hostility, lately, is just misunderstandings piling up on each other. ;) You should bring your group out AHE... it's when all of us freaks crawl out from under our rocks and the woodwork... y'all should fit right in!! LOL.
We've been to AHE a few times, it's always a good weekend. AHE and opening weekend are our two wildcards, while we're always around for closing.
Actually, I remember just a few years ago (before HORD days) when Lady Jessica introduced a few of us to everyone on the campgrounds, PR and McSug in particular. That was the year I met Kilted Privateer, Bonnie Pearl, and so many others for the first time!
And you're right, text is not a very good medium for conveying subtle emotions like sarcasm and humor.
I apologize, also, if I ruffled anyone's feathers. The entire reason I'm here to begin with is to build report and get along with everyone on the campgrounds. :)
EDIT: I'll bet AHE will be a great weekend for King Midas' Masquerade....hmmmm....
This is a great group of people, Xed... I personally have met most, raised a few cups/bottles and am proud to call them My Fairemily. It's been a strange season... the Earth Mother wasn't pulling her punches for us, this year, and my personal weather spells seemed to come to naught... a wet & cold Rennie is an unhappy Rennie. LOL Next year, AHE, will be something to go down in the record books... ;)
*i'd like to find and read that book sometime* ;D
I still say we form up a clan with Merlin as our patron titled The Geriatric Knights. Old Man Canes and rockers will abound ;D
I think I need to find another spot. I like the "spot" we use and I've been in the same area for 6 years now and it seems the "neighborhood" isn't as nice as it once was.
It's easy when your entire group consists of 2 to 4 people.
I can't say noise bugs me very much, unless I have to listen to the same Die Antwoord cd at 400db 27 times in a row. That is pretty annoying. Or people screaming nonsense at 3am, that kind of sucks as well.
Quote from: Breandan on December 04, 2013, 12:42:39 PM
I still say we form up a clan with Merlin as our patron titled The Geriatric Knights. Old Man Canes and rockers will abound ;D
Be careful what you say about us olde pharts. I'm sure you refer to another Merlin. There seems to be a plethora of us about. ;D ... and I'm not old...I'm ancient.
I have also seen a return to some of the "easily lighted fires." There are better response mechanisms than immediately assuming the worst, and reacting accordingly.
While not being a TRFer, I do see many of you at other faires, and since joining this forum nearly 4 years ago, I have not met anyone that's a total a-h, so it distresses me to see anyone act like one here. Think before responding! I like the golden-tongued (penned?) Breandan because he can rip you a new one and make you think you like it. Seriously though, he does seem to consider his responses incredibly well. (Breandan, I'll be at opening of Sherwood, and you can pay me there...)
SQUUEEE!! Can't wait to see you and your lovely bride at Sherwood Merlin! ;D
Breandan is the soul of courtesy... just don't pee in his Wheaties. Ever hear the phrase, " HULK SMASH"?
It's been nerve wracking season... Monsoons, Rennados, LEO interdictions... you name it, it happened this year. I'm looking forward to my first trip to Sherwood...
Was there for both the monsoon opening and the rennado AHE and show lots of flashing blue and red lights past the bondfire closing sat. Also the freeze highland weekend. Yea here hope for better weather for Sherwood.
Quote from: Bonny Pearl on December 05, 2013, 06:44:23 AM
SQUUEEE!! Can't wait to see you and your lovely bride at Sherwood Merlin! ;D
You had BETTER be there opening weekend, girl! It has been FAR too long!
Sir Richard, I think I am mentally prepared for whatever Sherwood throws at us. Opening Weekend is our traditional visit, and this will be the 4th. We've had hot, ice, and rain.
Quote from: SirRichardBear on December 05, 2013, 09:13:56 AM
Was there for both the monsoon opening and the rennado AHE and show lots of flashing blue and red lights past the bondfire closing sat. Also the freeze highland weekend. Yea here hope for better weather for Sherwood.
what happened at the bonfire? you mean the final sat. of the season?
Shooting for opening, but it's a wee bit far out to know for sure. We'd like to camp, and can't do that with the kiddos, so a lot of it depends on babysitters
We are hoping for the middle/end of March for our Sherwood outing, since it will be Miss ScallyWag's 13th Natal day on the 23rd... and she would dearly love to celebrate it with Fairmily! We're also hoping that many of you will be in attendance for the weekends of the 15/16 and 22/23, since we are planning to try and be there for both.
Getting back to the subject at hand, however... I could relate the story of the last time my daughter and I were down there for Celtic Christmas weekend, and were the first of the clan to get to the campgrounds, only to find usurpers trying to take the kitchen spot! There wasn't much we could do to keep them from taking some of our spots, but we did manage to get the kitchen area reserved... by tying clothesline between all of the trees and hanging four 5yard saris around the area! It wasn't breaking the rules, (exactly), since we weren't "roping off" the area... we were just hanging "clan colors", and building a privacy curtain! :D lol
I had to post on the clan fb group that we were being invaded, and pretty soon the cavalry came to the rescue, and a couple of truckloads of folks came racing out to make sure no more ground was lost! It was a little stressful, though... particularly since they were a bit rude about claiming the whole "first come, first choice" rule... even though we were technically there first, and were claiming the whole area. We didn't have enough gear to lay out to claim all of it, though... and they were a bit belligerent about it all... but I'm guessing they didn't much enjoy being right next to our fire ring all weekend, or the guitars, singing and drinking that went on there every night until 3-4am, either... since they don't seem to have come back since then, as far as I know.