In regards to my Badagris the Witch Doctor persona at BARF...
I'm bringing my shamanic hoop drum and some rattles as part of my costume. Obviously, I wouldn't bang on my drum near any performers or anywhere near musical acts-in-progress, but is there anywhere I absolutely shouldn't make any noise? I didn't plan on banging on the thing much, but if somebody gets interested in my costume and I want to do some healing drumming or something as part of the character, I don't want to anger the rennie spirits!
I had the same concern last year because I bought a wassail horn and really wanted to try blowing it, but I didn't want to disturb any acts or vendors...now hopefully I can get some advanced warning.
I know a lot of faires look down on playtrons doing any kind of preformance what so ever. (If it draws a crowd, it's preformance) It doesn't matter whether or not you are asking/getting money or not - it takes away from the paid preformers even if you are away from their space. I do know people that have been kicked out of fair for being playtrons with a shtick.
So no drums, no musical instruments of any kind. If you want to do a full shtick, audition for your faire - although given that the European Renaissance didn't have "witch doctors" I'm pretty sure you'll have to change your entire persona.
I think it's fine unless you are a nuisance. You have a respect for payed performers and others so why not have a little gun with your character? You can always dampen your drum or just play softly.
They had witch doctors....it just wasn't the name ascribed to them until the phrase was coined in the 1700s. ;) Besides...faires hire fairies...and I'm pretty sure there were more people beating drums during the renaissance than there were winged cunning folk flying around. Thanks for the warning, though...ill make sure not to draw crowds. if anything ill just interact with the cast in character.
I was planning on playing with my hands. Pretty quiet that way. Especially if I put the drum in my lap...then I might as well be drumming on a picnic table ;)
Thanks for the responses!
Quote from: isabelladangelo on March 13, 2014, 08:40:37 AM
I know a lot of faires look down on playtrons doing any kind of preformance what so ever. (If it draws a crowd, it's preformance) It doesn't matter whether or not you are asking/getting money or not - it takes away from the paid preformers even if you are away from their space. I do know people that have been kicked out of fair for being playtrons with a shtick.
So no drums, no musical instruments of any kind. If you want to do a full shtick, audition for your faire - although given that the European Renaissance didn't have "witch doctors" I'm pretty sure you'll have to change your entire persona.
Quoted for truth. If you want to perform (which is what you're talking about), go through the proper channels.
I'm going to agree that you should not play your instruments at faire, unless you are on cast or otherwise contracted to perform. Carrying instruments as a visual part of your character -- yes, absolutely! But not playing them. Even playing quietly may draw patrons, simply because they'll want to get a closer look at what you're doing. It's not merely a matter of volume, but interest.
You should totally consider auditioning, though. It's a lot of fun! And you'd have a lot more freedom to play up the parts of your character that could get you in trouble as a patron.
Okay, I think I need to clarify my question! =) I get the feeling some of you might be picturing a New Orleans Bond villain sitting on the lane with a chalice drum between his legs and his inverted tophat awaiting tips. I have no desire to "perform." The extent of the attention that I care about is maybe a "hey, nice costume."
I'm not a musician, nor do I aspire to be one (I'm busy enough with writing and acting...can't do it all ;) I just have a wooden shaman's hoop drum, about 10", that hangs from my neck. I'm wearing it because it's part of my costume AND because I was hoping I could commission someone to paint a picture on the head for me. I just wanted to know that if I'm walking around and decide to tap my hand against the drum, that security won't cold-dim bulb me in the base of the skull and drag me away. =)
I don't want anyone to think that I'm trying to horn in on spectators and steal the show. I just want to be a shaman and drink my mead and have fun buying stuff. You have all been helpful and I think the answer is that I don't really have to worry...I didn't think about this, but with the din of the faire, you won't be able to hear me tapping my hand against the drum anyway! ;)
On a side note, I would love to work at a faire some day...maybe when I'm retired. Sadly, writing doesn't leave me time for any more jobs.
The people I know that have been kicked out of faire:
One guy who was spot on for Captain Jack Sparrow - he got kicked out for drawing attention away from the performers due to his costume
One lady and her husband plus friends as I understand it - dressed up as lepers
They weren't causing noise. Their costumes were *fantastic*. Both got kicked out faire. They were not allowed to come back wearing those outfits
No one is picturing the one man band. What I am envisioning, however, ain't going to be pretty and we are all just trying to warn you before jumping over that cliff that ya know, maybe, it's not such a good idea. If you want to to do it, well no one on the internet can stop you. However, know that there are consequences to actions and, as I tell my nephews all the time, if you do this, the rest of us will just point and laugh when what I already told you comes true. ;-)
Being kicked out because your costume is too nice?
I never would have thought that could happen.
If you're absently tapping the drum as you're walking around, you're right, you likely won't have much issue. My concern came from the idea that you'd at any point be sitting or standing still while playing it. Even while taking a breather at a picnic table, quietly playing your drum could in theory look like a performance to people who don't know any better, and that's where the issue comes up.
But yes, at some events well-dressed patrons can and have been removed for drawing too much attention away from the performers, especially if -- like most of the very good Jack Sparrows I've seen -- they're in character, too. And this really can be a big deal, because most of the paid performers perform for a living, and the wages they get from the venue alone generally aren't enough for them to live on -- it is absolutely CRUCIAL that they have the opportunity to collect tips, and so patrons attracting too much attention can actually hurt the performers' livelihoods. It's not usually that extreme, of course -- how much damage could one Jack Sparrow really do? =) -- but the point is there, and it's actually pretty nice to know that some venues look out for their performers that much, because I know of a few who couldn't care less, and it's heartbreaking.
LordSterben, you're right -- now that I have a clearer idea of what you're looking to do, you're very unlikely to run into any issue at all. But the general points made in this thread are still very much valid. =)
I have only attended 2 major RenFaires- Pennsylvania and Maryland, plus quite a few small weekend Faires. Before I go, I email the Faire asking for permission to attend, explaining what I do with the Renaissance Bubble Machine (RBM), documenting that bubbles were made in the time period and that the technology of the machine existed in the era. I further state that I do not bubble near stages or performances, nor near food venues or vendors. Also, I do not accept tips. I am generally welcomed although one Faire did not respond to my email, which I took as a yes. Unfortunately, after only 20 minutes on the grounds, a delegation escorted me to the Gate. They did acknowledge it was their bad form for not replying to my email.
I totally understand a Faire wanting to have creative control over the entertainment presented at their Faire, which is why I seek permission to bring the RBM.
Quote from: 609wood on March 13, 2014, 07:16:00 PM
Being kicked out because your costume is too nice?
I never would have thought that could happen.
More because they had a shtick. All that "into character" stuff doesn't fly at some faires. It is to protect the performers but it's also to protect the other patrons from uh...interesting characters. The main faire I attend had some
very interesting incidents four or five years ago.
This is all really interesting information! Helpful, too. After seeing myriad pictures of things like elves, fairies, steampunk, stormtroopers and Vulcans at larger renaissance faires (such as the one I'm going to), I figured all bets were off. Heck, BARF had a steampunk costume contest, and witch doctors and Jack Sparrow are more HA than steampunk.
I'm kind of torn on my feelings about all this (yes, I know my feelings are academic because I don't make the rules). Part of me says, "Yeah, sure, I get it. They're taking away from the paid acts. Makes sense." I'm an artist. I get it...I'm constantly struggling for the next gig or the bidding too low on a contract or trying to get another radio interview.
Then another part of me says, "If a fake Jack Sparrow can steal the show away from your act...what does that say about your performance?" It's like me wanting the internet to pull all of the blogs off the internet that aren't written by people who do it for a living. I get paid when people read my stuff, so these other bloggers are taking away from my livelihood! No one cares...I just have to write better content.
As far as kicking me out for my costume, what it boils down to for me is motive. I'm a grown up and I respect the system, but I'm also a paying customer. I'm going to go and have fun. If they don't approve and kick me out for having a "good costume" then the merchants will lose out on my money and the money of my group, in perpetuity. No hard feelings, but I think such a move would be absurd on the part of management and I just wouldn't come back. Besides, 90% of the fun is showing off a costume that I made by hand..so if I can't wear it, I'd have no reason to be there anyway. =)
Especially when last year I saw multiple Links, a few characters from Mortal Kombat, numerous people with tails and furry ears, a Boba Fett and...the list goes on. =) Historical accuracy can't be that critical at BARF, from what I've seen.
I still thank you all for your input, and I appreciate that you're warning me against things that might spoil my fun or get me removed. You're all being remarkably patient and kind since I know I'm an outsider and my questions/views are probably pretty skewed. ;)
If BARF security is anything like MIRF security, and they should be pretty close (same front offices and all) if they don't approve of it, they will stop you at front gate and give you the option of leaving it at the front gate with a staff member, or running it out to your vehicle.
Also, as BubbleWright pointed out, you can always contact the festival in advance to see if your drum would be a problem.
-kat
I've only seen a few people get kicked out of faires, and for most of them it was for being stupid and/or drunk. I have seen a few instances where, especially in small er faires, folks were asked to leave, or re-dress when they were dressed as royalty. In and of itself not a bad thing, but trying to dress as the same individuals in the faire's court can cause some real confusion. Just remember most of the people who are asked to leave, or escorted out are, at least in the eyes of the organizers, either endangering the paytrons or staff, or threatening the feel of the faire. Stormtroopers are obviously paytrons, and other visitors will see them as such. In a faire that has a Dance Macabre, period dressed lepers could go either way. If you help build onto their idea of the illusion its fine. If you try, even inadvertantly, to change it, but well enough that other paytrons can't tell, they can get a bit upset. And then there was the lady who fired an arrow blindly from handicap parking into the faire.. but thats a (hopefully) unique case.
If participating behind the ropes is something you're interested in, find a smaller faire and give it a whirl. Around here most of the characters in the lanes or in the re-enactment yards are volunteers, and even for the multi week events, you don't have to sign on for the whole run (as long as the group your with can field enough people each day). I started 'performing' last year at a lot of the local soft faires out here last year. I had wanted to for years, but like you I was concerned about the time commitment. Really, at least for me, it means I have a yard to go back and rest at when my feet get tired, and I get to go for the whole weekend for faires where I cold only afford day tickets. So I have to be on site at 8am instead of whenever I manage to get there, and I have to help clean up? So what? Totally worth it.
Then another part of me says, "If a fake Jack Sparrow can steal the show away from your act...what does that say about your performance?" It's like me wanting the internet to pull all of the blogs off the internet that aren't written by people who do it for a living. I get paid when people read my stuff, so these other bloggers are taking away from my livelihood! No one cares...I just have to write better content.
It's not like that. The internet at large is a public space. Renaissance festivals are by and large private events, and therefore you must have permission to perform there. If you didn't have permission, you wouldn't come to the festival as a patron and then sell things. You wouldn't go to the opera and do your own show in the lobby, or go to someone else's book signing and do a reading from your book. This is no different, and frankly I am a little irritated by this sentiment. If your act is good, great! There's always room for good acts! Get a job at the faire and become the competition. If you can't commit to the whole run (understandable), see about getting a guest performance pass for the weekend (or several weekends). Many faires are very into that sort of thing.
Obviously, patrons can dress however they want (within the boundaries of decency, law, and whatever rules there are re: weapons etc). I personally love seeing people dressed up, whether that be in accurate Flemish garb or as a Storm Trooper, because dressing up is fun. It's when you start to perform that things become a problem.
Having done shows at a few small fairs, I have a thought to add to this. If you want to bang on the drum with wild abandon, get to know one of (or several of) the performers and see if they have any interest in help drawing a crowd for their show. I'd bet at least a few of them would be willing to let you drum up an audience for them (sorry, bad pun, I know :P ) before they start doing their thing. I suppose you could still have issues with the management, if they're the type to do that, but you would legitimately be assisting one of the performers, and not detracting from anything with the crowd you'd be drawing.
Quote from: Sev on March 13, 2014, 07:42:46 PM
But yes, at some events well-dressed patrons can and have been removed for drawing too much attention away from the performers, especially if -- like most of the very good Jack Sparrows I've seen -- they're in character, too. And this really can be a big deal, because most of the paid performers perform for a living, and the wages they get from the venue alone generally aren't enough for them to live on -- it is absolutely CRUCIAL that they have the opportunity to collect tips, and so patrons attracting too much attention can actually hurt the performers' livelihoods.
Agreed- Sort of a 'why buy the cow when the milk is free?' situation.
The distracting Playtron does not ask for tips (and he is not allowed to take tips either; just to be clear). When he is interacting with other patrons on the street, and he is very good, then he is giving away a commodity someone else is trying to make a living off of.
To aggravate matters; when the same patron encounters a real cast member or a professional actor later on who is doing something similar (and
is busking for tips), they assume he is just like the last guy that 'played' with them and won't bother to offer any money. It is an honest mistake, so it's just better just to not to add to the confusion.
A good example would be a Jazz festival: We have the paid performers during that time, and there is a small cover charge for the stage/ beer garden area. Musical buskers are common in the area during the rest of the year, but are temporarily banned during this time, because they may take some of the audience away from the paid entertainment.
I can't help but laugh at how the topic went back to me performing. =)
Remember, I don't want to perform. I was only asking about idly tapping on a drum. Although the idea of banging away with reckless abandon to draw a crowd did make for a pretty funny mental image!
and stonebiscuit...I don't have an act. I'm not issuing a challenge to performers. I was just saying that it seems like an odd situation (or a bad performance) that could be damaged by a Jack Sparrow impersonator walking around. Unless he had a whole routine going..in which case that would be an act, which is different. The conversation had moved along to people being kicked out because of their costumes and that's what I was referring to. Sorry if you didn't catch that part. ;)
Quote from: theatrekat on March 14, 2014, 10:32:54 AM
if they don't approve of it, they will stop you at front gate and give you the option of leaving it at the front gate with a staff member
And at first I thought you meant they would give me the option of leaving my costume at the front gate! I was thinking...how in the heck would me walking around in boxer briefs be less of a problem? lol
So we're clear on the terminology, an impersonation is an act is performing. Ditto "tapping" on a drum. That's what the topic started as, and that's what it's continued to be about, as far as I can tell.
As someone who is periodically offered money after being asked for a photo, I would say it depends a lot on the faire as to making noise on a drum or having a spectacular garb or persona. I just tell people I'm a visitor there just like them (well, almost just like them).
I have not been to BARF, so I do not have any idea how big/small/loud/quiet/or period specific it is. The faires I attend all have some badge or symbol for entertainers, but some are difficult to spot if they are not all required to have them on the same part of clothing. (I believe Scarborough requires players to put them on upper left of shirt??)
At someplace like TRF a customer/playtron would almost have to be on stage to attract any special attention and tapping a drum would probably not even be heard above the din. The only playtrons that really attract attention would be something out of the ordinary, such as the blue dice heads a couple years back (like "WOW" to any board role-players). Jack Sparrows are a dime a dozen; shamans are almost as common. If someone pulls out a guitar and a tip hat that person will be escorted out in short order.
Scarborough is a bit more period and lower audio volume in some areas, and has more obvious lane players working for tips. There might be a problem if someone gives even the appearance of trying to attract an audience, such as "teasing" on a drum where players are working. The only people I've heard of being turned away for garb are those outfits which are deemed too revealing in the eyes of the gate people.
Responses here are giving some very good advice, from asking management for guidance to getting a feel for the individual faire. You might also (if you have not already done so) ask your question in the forum group for the specific faire(s) you plan to attend. If you are attending faire(s) with camping, you might try playing your persona on the campgrounds to see what happens.
Have fun.
LordSterben-If you wish to show up at the faire, dressed as a witch doctor or shaman, and just walk around seeing and being seen as most Playtrons do, then there really is no issue with whatever you want to do...just keep it low key and you'll be ok. If the PTB let you in the gate; you are clear. Worst that can happen is they make you leave the drum in the car.
While you wear the drum (it sounds interesting, I'd love to see your outfit) leave it alone, unless someone asks you about it. I'm sure no one (faire employees) will mind you tapping out a rhythm by way of demonstrating that the drum is real, just restrain yourself from attempting a full scale ritual or something. LOL.
My Laird and I attend faire in a variety of garb, but the noble outfits will get us stopped for photo ops pretty regularly. We are not on cast (usually), so we just stroll around looking interesting; and we do try to stay in character to match the clothes, similar to what the fairy Playtrons do.
Outside of an occasional 'Good morrow' , we do not perform in any way; that's not our job.
As a dressed Playtron, it helps if you know where things are, and it's a bonus if you know when certain popular acts are on stage-it's a guarantee you will be asked that question at least once while in garb-so grab a schedule and keep it handy.
Ideally, well dressed Playtrons add to the ambiance of the faire, without being a distraction, or interfering with those cast members doing their thing.
Oh, my goodness, Rowen, :)your comment about being asked if you know where things are just reminded me of a week or so ago at Sherwood. I was sitting about 3 feet from a large map placed on an outer wall. People were looking at map and then asking me where were on the map. LOL
Quote from: BubbleWright on March 13, 2014, 08:44:40 PM
I have only attended 2 major RenFaires- Pennsylvania and Maryland, plus quite a few small weekend Faires. Before I go, I email the Faire asking for permission to attend, explaining what I do with the Renaissance Bubble Machine (RBM), documenting that bubbles were made in the time period and that the technology of the machine existed in the era. I further state that I do not bubble near stages or performances, nor near food venues or vendors. Also, I do not accept tips. I am generally welcomed although one Faire did not respond to my email, which I took as a yes. Unfortunately, after only 20 minutes on the grounds, a delegation escorted me to the Gate. They did acknowledge it was their bad form for not replying to my email.
I totally understand a Faire wanting to have creative control over the entertainment presented at their Faire, which is why I seek permission to bring the RBM.
Felix, I thought you worked for PARF! I'm a perfect example of someone who would think LordSterben works for the faire. So take the drum as part of your garb, but don't "play" it. The Jack Sparrow pirate was asked to leave my local faire, he was too much in character.
Gina
Although I am merely a playtron, the street cast always interacted with the bubbles throughout the day. Kelly Morris as Queen Elizabeth was so enamored of the bubbles that she would send the Queen's Guards to play in them.
Quote from: BubbleWright on March 16, 2014, 02:57:18 PM
Although I am merely a playtron, the street cast always interacted with the bubbles throughout the day. Kelly Morris as Queen Elizabeth was so enamored of the bubbles that she would send the Queen's Guards to play in them.
That's the kind of thing every Playtron dreams of; feeling like you're part of the fun!
The best faires I have been to are the ones where the cast actively engages patrons in garb; either in play or in conversation.
There is no greater pity than to have a truly gloriously dressed and well rehearsed cast... that speak to no one but their fellows.
They may as well be on a stage
Thanks for the continuing responses! Sadly my girlfriend has been very sick and we couldn't make it last weekend. She's still not doing too well, but it should clear up in time for next weekend.
Fingers crossed!
We finally made it. Hope has been sick for two weeks and now I have it, but we went anyway because time is running out. No one said anything about the drum. I did play it at one point during the obscene torrential downpour because some guy and his kids were splashing in the foot-deep puddle while hundreds of other people just crammed under shelter and watched. It was crowded and I was already wet so when the guy asked me to play the drum for his kids while they danced, I ran out into the puddle and splashed around with them.
I did get hassled about two things, which actually ticked me off a little bit. First off, I checked the BARF site a dozen times to make sure, and I've asked around. Nothing that I've seen said shoes were required. So I decided rather than carry around shoes, I would just not wear them and left them in the car. At the gate, they told me I couldn't go in. Okay...not the end of the world. So I go all the way back out, get the shoes, come back, and then the woman standing NEXT TO the one who told me about the shoes told me I had to put on a shirt because you could see my nipples. That angered me because they made me go back twice. Why not tell me these rules at the same time...unless you're just making them up? I dunno...even half the cast beyond the gate acted like they hadn't heard about this "no nip" rule. Some of them said it was new this year. If so...why is it not on your website where I can prepare for it, ya know?
I didn't want to put on a shirt so I painted over my chest with the rest of my paint. Ironically, when it started raining, my chest washed off AND my shoes got sucked down into two feet of mud where I decided to let them rest. Oh well!
None of it ruined my day, I'm just recounting the events. =)
(https://scontent-a-atl.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/t1.0-9/10156084_287177681437975_1512041521_n.jpg)
Never heard of no shirts/no shoes rule at any faire before.
Other than safety reasons(for the shoes) this may be a 'Patrons only' rule.
In hot weather here in the Midwest- I have seen plenty of (male) cast members stripping down to breeches and sandals to do heavy work and many walk around like that most of the day unless they want to avoid sunburn.
Most belly dancers I know perform without shoes, then walk around barefoot.
It is pretty normal to see Pirates doing so.
Sorry about your shoes, hopefully they weren't something you valued ???