So I just saw this post (https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10154468327130626) on Facebook. I'm not condoning or condemning it either way, but I thought it was interesting. At the very least, it's true that faires are dwindling popularity, and that's pretty sad.
Thoughts?
Link doesn't work.
Ferret
Fixed; the forum script chewed up the URL. If you still can't hit it, it should be at https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10154468327130626. (https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10154468327130626.)
Thank you.
A powerful message.
Ferret
Thanks for fixing the link.
I took a look at the site, as well as the author's main FB page. He seems to be based in California and most of the comments to his letter seem to be from people in California.
As one experiencing faire in Texas, the letter does not quite ring true for us here. The big three keep growing, in size and attendance.
There are all types of faire throughout the country (and the world); each with their own flavor and viability. The bigger, more commercial ones seem to be thriving; the smaller, soft-site ones are on a much more precarious road, for a myriad of reasons.
Here's hoping the letter author finds contentment in his faire experience.
The writer has evidently never been to Bristol. The lanes are so crowded, at times it's hard to get through. They have even closed both parking lots because they were completely full. I'm sorry his experience is so dismal. Ours is magical and "our" faire continues to thrive.
This past season, the Colorado Renaissance Festival saw record attendance. The Duchess and I found the crowds not only enormous -- at times we were unable to keep to our schedule because the lanes were so crowded -- but exceptionally receptive and genuinely interested in our characters. I agree with the poster who opined that the hard sites and more historically accurate faires are on the wax, while the soft "fantasy" faires are on the wane.
I know MDRF is always crazy crowded - to the point that it will be moving in a few years to a bigger location. VARF isn't as much but that's because of it's location - it's between Richmond, VA and Washington, DC rather than near any single large city. Traffic getting down to VARF from DC is always impossible and going from Richmond to Ladysmith (where VARF is) isn't all that great either. Basically, they suffer from a poor location choice.
Quote from: isabelladangelo on August 19, 2014, 01:02:37 AM
I know MDRF is always crazy crowded - to the point that it will be moving in a few years to a bigger location. VARF isn't as much but that's because of it's location - it's between Richmond, VA and Washington, DC rather than near any single large city. Traffic getting down to VARF from DC is always impossible and going from Richmond to Ladysmith (where VARF is) isn't all that great either. Basically, they suffer from a poor location choice.
When we lived in Woodbridge, VA, we always went to the MD renfaire vice the VA renfaire. The weekend traffic anywhere in that 95 corridor is horrid (THE MAIN reason we live in KC now!).
There was one passage in there that I found interesting. I do not know how true it is at other faires that I have not been to but I have seen it at the ones that I have been to. A number of you know me and/or have seen me at several faires. I have never missed an opportunity to play with Patrons also with Playtrons. Unfortunatley, whether by order or by sheer inexperience I have found some Playtrons and cast members be at a total loss for words when approached and spoken to even in the simplest conversation. That can be improved upon. What saddened me most was one faire(un-named) that prohibits interaction between Playtons not on cast and Patrons. These are some things that need to be changed. The OP is right WE are the ones that need to change it. See you at faire.
My home faire is MDRF, I visited Sterling last month while visiting some of my fiance's family... I was so confused- Moresca's wasn't crowded, no food lines, very very few patrons dressed in garb. Funny how your perspective changes based on what you're used to !
Quote from: gypsylakat on August 20, 2014, 03:04:55 PM
My home faire is MDRF, I visited Sterling last month while visiting some of my fiance's family... I was so confused- Moresca's wasn't crowded, no food lines, very very few patrons dressed in garb. Funny how your perspective changes based on what you're used to !
I want to share a similar story that I found amusing - and odd. A few coworkers went to Boston to attend a wedding (I live in the Midwest and work in IA). They had ever been east before and so made a vacation out of it. One day they were there, they went to King Richard's Faire. My friend told me they loved it. When they came back, she asked me if I wanted to see her faire pictures. Of course I was interested, so she showed them to me.
All she had was multiple pictures of different family members holding and eating turkey legs. Nothing else! Not a show, no cast members, no buildings, after being at faire a whole day and loving it, nothing but pictures of people eating turkey legs.
Lady Renee,
Just wondering, had your friends been to any other ren/medieval themed faires before? Or was this a first-time experience for them?
Quote from: Lady Renee Buchanan on August 20, 2014, 06:10:29 PM
I want to share a similar story that I found amusing - and odd. A few coworkers went to Boston to attend a wedding (I live in the Midwest and work in IA). They had ever been east before and so made a vacation out of it. One day they were there, they went to King Richard's Faire. My friend told me they loved it. When they came back, she asked me if I wanted to see her faire pictures. Of course I was interested, so she showed them to me.
All she had was multiple pictures of different family members holding and eating turkey legs. Nothing else! Not a show, no cast members, no buildings, after being at faire a whole day and loving it, nothing but pictures of people eating turkey legs.
Just like the 1928 movie on Henry VIII. (Because, if anyone bothered to think about it for a second, they'd realize that the turkey was an American bird. :P )
Quote from: PollyPoPo on August 20, 2014, 06:34:23 PM
Lady Renee,
Just wondering, had your friends been to any other ren/medieval themed faires before? Or was this a first-time experience for them?
First time ever to a faire. And they loved the joust, the shows, the shopping. Just..........pictures of turkey legs!
Lady Renee,
That 'splains it. For some reason people are fascinated by turkey legs cooked that way. They have been popping up at all kinds of events the past 10 years.
Unfortunately, funnel cake has started popping up at Faire. It might even be period, but it jars the senses sometimes.
Quote from: isabelladangelo on August 20, 2014, 09:14:07 PM
Just like the 1928 movie on Henry VIII. (Because, if anyone bothered to think about it for a second, they'd realize that the turkey was an American bird. :P )
A bird from the North American continent that was introduced to England in the 1520's. Therefore it is period-correct for Tudor England. They became fairly common to find in the marketplace around 1535, the same year Henry VIII broke ties with the Catholic church.
Quote from: PollyPoPo on August 21, 2014, 06:32:43 AM
Lady Renee,
For some reason people are fascinated by turkey legs cooked that way. They have been popping up at all kinds of events the past 10 years.
I actually really don't like them, everyone says "Oh Renn Faire? You MUST have a Turkey Leg" but I can't stand those tendony things that feel like shards of plastic boning- they're about as much work to eat around as Crabs!
gypsy-Same here. I don't like the little tendon-thingies, the grease, or the fact that a turkey leg is way too much for me to eat. I hate to waste 1/2 a drumstick that I paid $8.00 for.
I would rather pay $5.00 for a burger, or $3.00 for a hot dog and soda.
The letter brought up some good points-I might add that it would also help if the hosting venue would sponsor a float in the local town parade.
Our home faire is held at Bellevue pumpkin Ranch and Berry farm. They also have a Haunted Hayride feature and and a pirate festival (next weekend) there; however, they don't bother to put a float in the Bellevue Days parade.
I don't get it. Here they have trailers and tractors out the wahoo, plenty of folks in garb who would love to throw candy, and a stellar opportunity to wow the public; but no, the parade has the usual retirement home buses, local businesses with seriously lame floats(what's up with that?), red hat society, shriners, and lot and LOTS of politicians in classic cars.
Quote from: Rowen MacD on August 21, 2014, 10:39:31 AM
gypsy-Same here. I don't like the little tendon-thingies, the grease, or the fact that a turkey leg is way too much for me to eat. I hate to waste 1/2 a drumstick that I paid $8.00 for.
I would rather pay $5.00 for a burger, or $3.00 for a hot dog and soda.
What I would love to see more of (ie, I've seen it at a couple of faires) is roasted chicken breasts with some period "bbq" sauces - like Lemon or honey (with cinnamon!). It would be a size people can eat, something everyone recognizes, but still educating the taste buds as to what our ancestors ate.
As for the turkey, the earliest for "peasant" eating I've seen in 1573 which would be about 50 years before most faires' timelines. Although there are accounts of the rich eating the bird back to 1526, they were also eating peacock and crane. ;-)
Oh, and funnel cakes are sort of period - just not the way we make them today. Today, they are normally made with corn flour because we are Americans and make everything with corn. ;D I LOVE making medieval apple fritters - they are delicious. Just almond milk, wheat flour, sugar, and cinnamon coating a thin apple slice. Fry it up in some olive oil and it is
SO good.
Okay, back on topic: Rowen, why not contact your local renn fair and ask them why they don't join in the parade? Even volunteer to help out.
Really, the only issues I've seen with any of the "local" faires I go to (PA, MD, VA) are location, old infrastructure, and/or bad info. The old infrastructure is one I know faires outside my normal three are having issues with. Even a new paint job (there was more than stucco and brown beams to Tudor architecture) would be helpful. One of the biggest issues with MD is the unpaved hills. I was shocked at PA when I saw pavement - which did take away a bit from the faire experience, really. However, just having the main throughway bricked over with be nice and helpful for parents with kids (strollers!) and those with wheelchairs. Yes, it would be expensive but it also might help people to come back rather than think of that miserable time they had getting leaves out of wheels and stuck in mud.
Pavement is a turn-off for me as well, Isabella. OKRF has an area that is paved—I think it actually is or was a parking lot at one point. Pavers — either brick or stone — would be fine with me, but I hate seeing concrete or asphalt on a hard site. If you're going to go to the trouble of building a (permanent) period village, at least make things LOOK period.
For soft sites, it's a different story, and I have no problem with it there.
Quote from: isabelladangelo on August 21, 2014, 11:40:11 AM
One of the biggest issues with MD is the unpaved hills. I was shocked at PA when I saw pavement - which did take away a bit from the faire experience, really. However, just having the main throughway bricked over with be nice and helpful for parents with kids (strollers!) and those with wheelchairs. Yes, it would be expensive but it also might help people to come back rather than think of that miserable time they had getting leaves out of wheels and stuck in mud.
I have to say that one of the things that I love about MDRF is how natural the environment is. We went to the PA festival this year and I was really surprised at how much the pavement detracted from our experience there. If we went regularly I would definitely have to give up my boots for something with more cushioning.
Quote from: Captain Jack Wolfe on August 21, 2014, 07:33:43 AM
Quote from: isabelladangelo on August 20, 2014, 09:14:07 PM
Just like the 1928 movie on Henry VIII. (Because, if anyone bothered to think about it for a second, they'd realize that the turkey was an American bird. :P )
A bird from the North American continent that was introduced to England in the 1520's. Therefore it is period-correct for Tudor England. They became fairly common to find in the marketplace around 1535, the same year Henry VIII broke ties with the Catholic church.
There are even period references to using turkey feathers to fletch arrows, instead of goose. Goose was considered superior.
I can tell you that from the time I started keeping track of fairs, I've seen a bunch of fairs open, but also quite a few close. The big fairs seem to be doing just fine, yeah, but they were established long ago. Newer fairs seem to have a harder time of it.
My own personal experience is from going to a bunch of fairs in the northeast US. While we go in full garb, we've never been approached by any non-cast members; people very much keep to themselves in their own group. It's fine, really, but I've not had the family thing that you are all talking about. :/
This R/F community was the catalyst that got me into the "fairemily." Granted, Texas seems to be the most closely-knit and active group on here, but I have found bunches of these nuts at every faire we've attended.
Those who post their photo here will have the best chance of making contact with fellow R/F members, and I dare say, there are members at every faire. If you cannot be recognized, you cannot be sucked into the revelry. Maybe you need to become more proactive. I was REAL shy when I first joined. Lady Kett and Dona Catalina recognized me from here, called me over, and put an end to my shyness.
I feel that as Playtrons the onus is up to us to go up to people and instigate conversation. If you wait for patrons to do more than ask for permission to take pictures then your in for a long day. The poor patrons do not know if you are on cast or not, and not knowing that are unlikely to venture forth as they are afraid of intruding on some skit. I was at a faire(name unimportant) and a group of cast members were huddled in a group carrying on a conversation about something to do with the village and some poor soul tried to come up and talk to them and they ignored the person completely. Now that could / should not have been the intent. So whether we are cast or not we must put forth the effort to engage people in conversation of some sort. And there is no need to break character. A simple comment about their cell phone is enough, I.E. Why are you talking to air??????
or something along those lines, people in shorts I.E. why do you come to faire - half naked, have you no shame?????? These are but a couple of things that can be done, it is simply a matter of doing them.
Quote from: BLAKDUKE on August 23, 2014, 06:05:12 AM
I feel that as Playtrons the onus is up to us to go up to people and instigate conversation. If you wait for patrons to do more than ask for permission to take pictures then your in for a long day. The poor patrons do not know if you are on cast or not, and not knowing that are unlikely to venture forth as they are afraid of intruding on some skit. I was at a faire(name unimportant) and a group of cast members were huddled in a group carrying on a conversation about something to do with the village and some poor soul tried to come up and talk to them and they ignored the person completely. Now that could / should not have been the intent. So whether we are cast or not we must put forth the effort to engage people in conversation of some sort. And there is no need to break character. A simple comment about their cell phone is enough, I.E. Why are you talking to air??????
or something along those lines, people in shorts I.E. why do you come to faire - half naked, have you no shame?????? These are but a couple of things that can be done, it is simply a matter of doing them.
Agreed-David and I try to talk to as many people as possible; even if it's just to say 'Good Morrow!' or 'Have you seen the queen?'
You should greet others in garb as you encounter them;no one should be ignored. They took the trouble to dressed up, so give them the attention they are asking for-it's fun for everyone.
If you are in garb and you catch a non-garbed patron's eye; you should exchange pleasantries. Many times this results in a photo op, so it can slow you down if you are headed for a show-but be good-natured about it. There will be other opportunities to see your favorite act. You are part of the show, whether you paid to get in or not.; many times I have heard people say they go 'for the food and to see the costumes'.
"You are part of the show, whether you paid to get in or not."
Exactly right!
It's unfortunate that the author on FB experienced the experience. Perhaps it's a reflection of changing demographics? I.E., richer people are coming into the area and displacing those most likely to go to faires. I am not sure whether the "newly rich" (I'm tired of looking up the correct spelling of the autonym) or Old Money have any connections to ren faires for entertainment, but "no" would be my guess. Another factor might be that these people are those who are much more wedded to modern civilization and less apt to use ren faires as escape avenues. I would say that for some people because there are those of us who are confused by the way the modern world is progressing, uncomfortable with the direction it is heading, towards a Star Trek future (where I do not want to go), or how meaningless civilization has become, there is a need to escape if only for a few hours, to a place where human relationships and a simpler time without all the distractions of modern times take priority. This is something that all faires share, to provide escape and the opportunity to be as you are.
The author would do well, as many have mentioned here, to travel and see these faires across the country; there's over 250 of them! I second the experience in Texas. My home faire is Sherwood, and so far, our numbers are increasing each season. Because we are a relatively new faire, we have to talk it up with many people, even to the point of dressing up on some days and simply going into a store and asking coworkers about their knowledge of Sherwood, and then talking to them about it as well as my raiment I happen to be wearing that day, BEFORE I hand them a single post card. I'll even do this at restaurants when I sit down to eat, depending on the circumstances. I do this quite often, for no particular reason; just do it, as it's becoming a way of life for me.
This is what I foresee in the future; ren faires transition from a place of escape to a place of reality, where people's daily lives are not only affected by the day at the faire, but also by the economy that exists within the faire, the trades one partakes in, and the relationships formed in the process. This place of reality would be a transition point for those desiring to leave behind the needlessly complicated modern world back to a more sane way of living that honors people, their relationships, and their way of life. This is already happening in the rennie world, and has for a long time. There are people who have not had health insurance for a long time, have not held a modern job (in the sense of office work, retail jobs at Walmart, etc., engineering jobs, computer jobs, etc.), don't even live in a "proper" modern house, among other things. It is my hope that this will spread into the modern world.
Curious about something! When you say "the big three in Texas," are you including Sherwood?
There are several smaller faires, but the "Big Three of Texas" would be TRF, Scarborough, and Sherwood. Sherwood's growth in its short lifetime has been nothing short of phenomenal, and it rivals some of the longer established faires, if not in size, then certainly in quality.
I wish I lived close enough to make Sherwood my home faire. It's difficult enough to be at Scarby more than once a season, which IS my home faire. We have a couple of start-up soft faires here in Arkansas, but so far, we've not been able to get to either because of scheduling conflicts. I think we're going to be able to daytrip to the Texarkana Ren Faire in October, but waiting to see if family commitments are going to interfere.
Quote from: Merlin the Elder on August 24, 2014, 02:28:56 PM
There are several smaller faires, but the "Big Three of Texas" would be TRF, Scarborough, and Sherwood. Sherwood's growth in its short lifetime has been nothing short of phenomenal, and it rivals some of the longer established faires, if not in size, then certainly in quality.
I did a double take at "the big three in Texas" because I knew only TRF and Scarby would be the big ones, but did not know that the perception about Sherwood is already changing in spite of its youth. This is very encouraging, considering the gamble, the risk the owners took even though a lot of things were favorable at the time of decision. Anything big like this you try, there are risks involved, and that includes the people who make it happen. I completely trust the people making it happen at Sherwood will continue to make it happen. Also, every year, the campground continues to bring in ever more people, and sometimes, the campground has to expand outward. Fortunately, there is extra land for this and a possible expansion of the faire.
TAKE NOTE, commercialized faire owners/operators... This is not meant as a blast at them, but it must be said that the commercialization of the faires akin to that of Six Flags or the Disney parks creates a different feel, a different presence. I don't know if you intended that, but as a patron, it's rather jarring to see that. I wonder about how commercialized the faires in CA are, since I have never been to one out there, and I would imagine everything is expensive out there, including land, labor, and inputs of the faire, not to mention taxes on the state level. This probably forces them to get commercial sponsorship because they cannot pay for it out of their own pockets (correct me on this, please).
LOL! Look at the things that have happened already at Sherwood after only five seasons. Some of what is going on there goes on at no other faire in the country! ... okay, technically, it's not "at faire" (and no...I'm not a paid shill for Sherwood! ;D ).
Sherwood's progress has been extremely ambitious to date, but it appears to me, as a distant outsider, it is definitely generating a following. I don't know about bottom line, but from watching the growth from year 2 thru 5, there is obvious growth happening.
It's only my opinion, but yeah... Sherwood is a "biggie."
My 2 cents (for what that's worth) & my perception: Sherwood has succeeded for a variety of reasons. Well thought out business plan, fantastic piece of land at a great location (close to Austin & San Antonio), and probably the best decision they made was the ongoing inclusion of people that are literally "partners" in the community that is Sherwood. There is the annual Faire that lasts 8 weekends, the Celtic Festival that is 2 weekends. And during the rest of the year, they open up the campgrounds and Faire itself for the gatherings that are every 30 - 60 days. Those are a time for folks to come together and work on their camp sites as well as do some work in and for the Faire itself. This builds a certain level of "ownership" in Sherwood that in my opinion, is at the core of the success of the Sherwood story.
As in any new business venture, it generally pays to study the predecessors of the type of business one is getting into. What they did and why they did it. What brought about success and what didn't. Sherwood would be a good study in building a successful Renaissance Faire. Call it "RenFaire 101".
Having said all this, comparing what works well in one location in the country certainly doesn't guarantee that it will work everywhere else. It seems in recent years the state of California has done a lot to make things hard on businesses in that state. And some of those businesses have up and left that state. I'm not saying that is the case here, but if Faires in general are growing and succeeding through out the country but the ones in CA are struggling............
I want to add that Sherwood also does summer camp for kids with a choice of one of three weekends and a summer camp for adults for a long weekend as well.
You're right, it's a volunteer-run thing with the maintenance of the faire grounds, camp grounds, and marketing meetings for people who live in their respective areas and how to market Sherwood. The more often the faire grounds are used, the more money can be made and the more cohesive the faire people can be. It keeps the spirit alive and moving.