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Faire Garb => Sewing => Topic started by: gem on September 04, 2008, 06:48:58 PM

Title: Chemise neckline fussiness issues; ideas?
Post by: gem on September 04, 2008, 06:48:58 PM
I have a Greycat chemise (http://pic50.picturetrail.com/VOL417/1033223/10747433/192068077.jpg) that I just absolutely adore--it has beautiful black edging at the neckline and cuffs.  There's a drawstring neckline, and one little thing I've noticed is that the gathers tend to be unevenly distributed--they're nice and ruffly at the front and back, but tend to go kind of flat and un-ruffled at the shoulders, and I spend all day readjusting it so that the gathers are even everywhere.

I'm wondering if I could replace the drawstring with elastic, or maybe sew the gathers in place, or both.  Suggestions?  If I go with elastic, how in the world do I figure out how much I need?

Laura, I love you and I love the chemise you made me, but after 5 years, it needs a bit of a boost!  :D

Gramercy!

Title: Re: Chemise neckline fussiness issues; ideas?
Post by: operafantomet on September 05, 2008, 12:33:41 AM
Yes, the wrinkles tend to end up in front and back center... It's annoying.

I wondered about one thing.... Raphael's "Donna Velata" shows a drawstring on each side, maybe the same is echoed in the back. Or maybe they're not drawstrings?

DONNA VELATA: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v31/operafantomet/renaissanceportraits/firenze1/raphael1514.jpg


Can it be that:

a) The chemise was pleated and tucked down, with no drawstring, and merely opened in front by those gold tips decorated bows? There's been a few portraits of chemise dressed (Venetian) ladies showing this solution. I think this Vecchio painting is another example: http://www.nationalgallery.org.uk/cgi-bin/WebObjects.dll/CollectionPublisher.woa/wa/largeImage?workNumber=NG3939&collectionPublisherSection=work

b) Could they be possible to open, like described above, and yet be drawstrings?

Or maybe another solution? Either how, they would have made it easier to keep the shoulder area neat and pleated, and not tugged down by the bodice straps or similar. Drawstring all around makes it very easy to adjust the width of the neck opening, but there will be some tugging. It seems like ready-pleated necklines was just as (or maybe even more) common, judging old portraits. Dunno about surviving garbs - the ones at Realm of Venus seems to be a tad later and they all show sewn-down pleats (if I remember correctly) and very decorated necklines.


VARIOUS ITALIAN CHEMISES:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v31/operafantomet/renaissanceportraits/milano/luini1520s-1.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v31/operafantomet/renaissanceportraits/venezia2/judith1520s.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v31/operafantomet/renaissanceportraits/venezia1/lotto1523.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v31/operafantomet/renaissanceportraits/venezia1/veneto1523.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v31/operafantomet/renaissanceportraits/ferrara/dossi1525ferrara.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v31/operafantomet/renaissanceportraits/milano/luini1530.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v31/operafantomet/renaissanceportraits/venezia2/pbordone.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v31/operafantomet/renaissanceportraits/venezia2/mariettarobusti.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v31/operafantomet/renaissanceportraits/mantua/romanomantua1531bjpg.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v31/operafantomet/renaissanceportraits/mantua/tizian1534este.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v31/operafantomet/renaissanceportraits/roma/caravaggioroma1596.jpg

NOT SURE IF THIS FASHION IS PURELY DECORATIVE OR ACTUALLY FUNCTIONAL....
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v31/operafantomet/renaissanceportraits/mantua/venetobart1500-10.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v31/operafantomet/renaissanceportraits/mantua/lombardy.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v31/operafantomet/renaissanceportraits/milano/solari1510jpg.jpg


Not sure this answered your question(s).... But it might give a historical perspective of what was common/possible/plausible. :)
Title: Re: Chemise neckline fussiness issues; ideas?
Post by: Kate XXXXXX on September 05, 2008, 02:39:55 AM
What a glorious set of pictures!  I particularly like the one of Judith with the sword.  That looks like fixed pleats to me, and I love the sleeve/cuff treatment.

(Wanders off thinking about chemise challenge...  )
Title: Re: Chemise neckline fussiness issues; ideas?
Post by: sealion on September 05, 2008, 06:45:35 AM
LOL Kate! That sleeve treatment is what caught my eye, too!
Title: Re: Chemise neckline fussiness issues; ideas?
Post by: Mythrin on September 05, 2008, 09:31:52 AM
I looked at that one in particular also. Kind of made me go "hummmmm.."
Title: Re: Chemise neckline fussiness issues; ideas?
Post by: operafantomet on September 05, 2008, 09:33:47 AM
That's why I added it to the site (I only have two pure chemise paintings there; the other one being of Marietta Robusti). It's so adapted to the fashion of the era - narrow lower sleeves, and lots of width at the top. Check out the dresses around the Judith one:

http://geocities.com/pisslei/galleryvenice

I'm glad you too found it interesting!


Title: Re: Chemise neckline fussiness issues; ideas?
Post by: gem on September 05, 2008, 01:20:39 PM
Operafan, GLORIOUS!!

Now, back to my question.  ;D  Anyone have suggestions for me about adding elastic?
Title: Re: Chemise neckline fussiness issues; ideas?
Post by: sealion on September 05, 2008, 04:34:25 PM
If it were me, I wouldn't add elastic. I have one chemise with elastic and don't like it. I would put the chemise on and adjust the gathers to your liking then tack it in a few places to kept the gathers from shifting.
Title: Re: Chemise neckline fussiness issues; ideas?
Post by: Blue66669 on September 05, 2008, 04:42:14 PM
Ok, adding elastic to a chemice. First, sew an elastic pocket (about 3/4 in) around the entire upper part. Do it about an inch or so below the neckline. Then, measure the elastic around your shoulders. Just pull out a piece and pull it around you, making sure to get the elastic tight enough on you without being uncomfortable. Be sure to get a wider elastic, cause the really thin stuff will cut into you mid day. I'd say go for the 1/4 to 1/2 inch elastic. Then, all you have to do is run the elastic through the pocket, then sew at the ends of the elastic to anchor it in place. Sew your little pockets shut, and VOILA!!!
Title: Re: Chemise neckline fussiness issues; ideas?
Post by: Naween on September 05, 2008, 05:33:04 PM
My chemise has elastic around the top, and I find it too shifts so that the bunching is never even. Pain in the butt!
Title: Re: Chemise neckline fussiness issues; ideas?
Post by: silverstah on September 05, 2008, 05:39:46 PM
Hee!  After 5 years, my stuff needs a bit of a boost, too. :)

Personally, I'd pull the drawstring out and permanently gather the neckline into place.  Run a few rows of gathering stitches around the neckline, and then hand-sew the pleats into place.  You could sew a small band on the interior of the chemise to give the pleats stability, perhaps?

Unfortunately, with drawstring or elastic necklines, there's going to be a bit of shifting and bunching.  If you want your gathers to be perfectly even, you'll have to stitch them into place. :) 

Hope that helps!
Title: Re: Chemise neckline fussiness issues; ideas?
Post by: gem on September 05, 2008, 06:52:04 PM
Quote from: silverstah on September 05, 2008, 05:39:46 PM
Hee!  After 5 years, my stuff needs a bit of a boost, too. :)

Personally, I'd pull the drawstring out and permanently gather the neckline into place.  Run a few rows of gathering stitches around the neckline, and then hand-sew the pleats into place.  You could sew a small band on the interior of the chemise to give the pleats stability, perhaps?

Unfortunately, with drawstring or elastic necklines, there's going to be a bit of shifting and bunching.  If you want your gathers to be perfectly even, you'll have to stitch them into place. :) 

Hope that helps!

Yes, brilliant!!  That was actually my first instinct--sewing the gathers in place.  I can definitely tack them down with some nice linen tape inside.

Happy, happy.... Did I mention that I lurve this chemise?  ;D
Title: Re: Chemise neckline fussiness issues; ideas?
Post by: silverstah on September 05, 2008, 07:18:13 PM
Hee!  Follow your instinct, Gem - you're a wonderful seamstress! :)

*blush* Aw, yay - I'm so glad you're getting SO much enjoyment out of the chemise.  And I'm glad to hear that it's held up so well for so long! :)
Title: Re: Chemise neckline fussiness issues; ideas?
Post by: operafantomet on September 14, 2008, 03:27:14 AM
OK, I gave in and updated the Venetian gallery with chemise paintings as well...

PLEATED NARROW LOWER SLEEVES:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v31/operafantomet/renaissanceportraits/venezia2/judith1520s.jpg

VERY FINELY PLEATED:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v31/operafantomet/renaissanceportraits/venezia1/tizian1530ish.jpg

GATHERED, SPLIT IN FRONT:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v31/operafantomet/renaissanceportraits/venezia1/vecchio1520s-1.jpg

SPLIT AT SHOULDER(S):
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v31/operafantomet/renaissanceportraits/venezia1/vecchio1520s2.jpg

SPLIT IN FRONT:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v31/operafantomet/renaissanceportraits/venezia1/vecchio1520s3-1.jpg

SPLIT IN FRONT:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v31/operafantomet/renaissanceportraits/venezia2/pbordone.jpg

BLACKWORKED:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v31/operafantomet/renaissanceportraits/venezia1/micheli1550s.jpg

BLACKWORKED WITH LACE CUFFS + PLAIN WHITE:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v31/operafantomet/renaissanceportraits/venezia2/fasolo1570sdiv.jpg

GATHERED, WITH LACE TRIM:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v31/operafantomet/renaissanceportraits/venezia2/mariettarobusti.jpg

ANOTHER FRONT SPLIT:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v31/operafantomet/renaissanceportraits/venezia1/tizian1515-20flora.jpg

WIDE SLEEVES:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v31/operafantomet/renaissanceportraits/venezia1/tizian1514mirror.jpg

SKIRT SPLITS?
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v31/operafantomet/renaissanceportraits/venezia2/bassano1540s.jpg