Hi there, just wanted to share a story and get opinions about a "situation" I found myself in recently.
I have attended KRF in Carver at LEAST yearly for the past 10 years; in the last two, have also included my now 11 year old son and 9 year old daughter.....they have a BLAST and we look forward to it all year. SO.....this year, my daughter has chosen to go to Faire for her birthday and bring a friend. I mentioned this ahead of time to her friend's Mom (whom I have been friends with for the past 8 years) just to be sure she'd be ok with my brining her daughter so far away for the entire day. When she called me about it; she suddenly was asking if her older daughter could go (no big deal, I have room in the car) and then that SHE wanted to go as well, and would drive, etc, etc. BUT, the BIGGEST issue was that this friend of mine is............a mundane :(. OK, so picture this......me and 4 awesome kids, all dressed in Garb for faire, and HER, walking around like a lump in her jeans and sweatshirt. Kinda kills the mood, wouldn't you say? Am I being unreasonable? Also, she has a tendency to take control of things so I told her, since it's for my daughter's birhtday, that I'm going to drive and stay all day, etc,etc. I thought I would find some empathetic ears here. What do you think? What would you have done?
THANKS GUYS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Gwen
Do you think that you could get away with telling her htat garb is required in honor of your daughter's birthday and, if so, do you have garb she could borrow?
Yes, I had suggested twice that if she wanted to go, she had to dress; (I have plenty of garb she could have borrowed) she emphatically replied "I don't dress up, I'm not into that" which is the reason for the whole uncomfortable situation. Would you agree that it completely changes the atmosphere and mood if you're with someone who is NOT dressed and not nearly as into faire as you are??? I hate for her to feel unwanted, but truly, it would be a big bummer.
Thanks for your suggestion. My thinking is that only people who are rennies would understand.
Can you possibly tell her that it would be important to your daughter to have her entire birthday party "in the spirit", and that you can find her some simple (probably peasant) garb that would be comfortable, as well as functional? Ask her to try to understand that you want this to be a complete "experience" for your daughter, and that you think it is important for everyone participating to make it as authentic as possible - for your daughter. You might also point out that, if it was her daughter, you know it would mean a lot to her. Just a thought.
Truth be known, she probably felt more uncomfortable than you know. I wouldn't worry about it too much - some people are just going to be kill-joys.
I would've said she was welcome to come but she could drive herself (that way if she ends up not wanting to stick around, she can leave before you guys do).
That and strongly hint she could at least rent some garb for the day (assuming that fest does that?).
Honestly, though, I wouldn't have pushed the garb thing on someone. Though if they'd invited themselves along on my outing, I would've probably come up with an excuse for us to separate at some point during the day, at least for a while.
I'm with Lady Analise....take separate vehicles.
Quote from: Gwenwhistle on September 12, 2008, 07:05:06 AM
she emphatically replied "I don't dress up, I'm not into that"
Then why does she want to go, to the point that she invites herself.
I am of the firm opinion you can't be nice and P.C. with people like that. Tell her to get into the spirit of things for her daugthers sake if not for yours or stay home. Another avenue is talk to her daughter and see if she can persuade Momma to garb up a little.
oh, I have been in this position many times and for us, it DOES put a damper on the day. We go often though, so one weekend out of 8 is not a big deal. If I could only go once and had to drag around a partypooper, I would probably do something wicked. :)
DEFINITELY take two cars! this way she can leave early if she wants. Give her a program and tell her the things your daughter wants to see ( the birthday girl ) and if she wants to come along she can, or she can pick her own shows. And then try not to focus on her but on the many wonderful sights and sounds of faire.
Hopefully, she will lighten up and really enjoy herself. Faire has a way of doing that. Good luck! LF
maybe she's a rennie in the making my first ren fest me and my friends didn't dress in garb even though i thought it was a fantastic idea. one of my friends didn't want to so we didn't well the friend who didn't want to dress up decided that it might be more fun to dress up the second year we've been wearing garb every since. maybe her going this year might spark her to want to dress up next year
and i agree incase she is a party pooper take more than one car so she can leave when she wants if she doesn't like it
Gosh, I really don't see an easy way out of this. It sucks that she invited herself along but refuses to garb up even though she know your daughter want her to do it. Maybe it's time to stop trying to be nice about it and just tell her point blank that she should stay home if she refuses to honor your daughter's request to wear garb.
You could always stop off at a convenience store for some snacks and then take off and forget she came along Oh yeah her child is with you, she might notice that........ Well outside of things that are decidedly illegal, outlandish, rude, crude, abrasive and fattening I am out of ideas...................
It's not easy to be nice to everyone and sometimes you can't. The best idea here, is the separate car idea. If she doesn't like the experience, she can leave any time she wants.
If she tries to take over though, like you said. She has the tendency to take things over. Then you'll have to be more assertive and block her if she tries to do that. Keep it firmly in her head as well as yours. The day is for your daughter, not her. My wife and I went for a few years with me in garb and her not. We still had fun, but it became way more fun when she learned the pleasures of the garb.
Good luck in what ever you decide though, and Carpe diem.
Perhaps you could take along extra garb for her, and when she starts feeling that uncomfortable "out-of-place" feeling that mundanes sometimes experience when in the company of a group of garbed rennies you could casually mention that you have a "spare" in the car? Who knows... after she's been there for an hour or so she may be looking to buy her own garb! LOL
WOW, thank you all so much for your great words of advice. I knew I could count on rennies to understand. I actually have sat down with my friend to explain my feelings and although she was very open to hearing it, she REALLY didn't see what the big deal was if she wasn't in garb. I finally had to just say "If you were into faire, you WOULD understand." and had to leave it at that.
Blakduke; LOVE the convenience store idea........ :D
I don't think not dressing up is a definite mood killer. I don't dress up. My DH almost always does & my kids do about 50% of the time but I don't. I probably will at some point but not yet. Yes, we do get a few odd looks with him in his gypsy garb & me in my capris & shirt, son in chainmaille & daughter in danes with fairy wings but we're use to it & it doesn't bother me a bit.
I honestly wouldn't push her too much. Everyone has their own comfort level & she may think (right or wrong) that being in costume will bring too much attention.
Thanks for your input, cowgrrl. Just curious, why DON'T you dress? I suppose in your particular case, you guys are ok with it and it works for you BUT, going to faire is our ONE TIME a year treat and for ME, anyway, being with someone who isn't willing to get in the spirit IS a moodkiller. I went one year with a guy who just wasn't into faire and vowed NEVER to do that again. Maybe I'm being selfish but we drive 2 hours and spend 200 bucks at least; I want it to be special each and every time, THIS year, most importantly for my daughter. Ya know? Yeah, I'm selfish............
I was going to mention to bring some garb in the car, when I saw it was already posted.
Word of warning, though. The opposite could happen. She could go to the faire in 'danes and have a great time. But if you force her to wear garb, even for your daughter's sake, she could be so uncomfortable and miserable that it will make the day worse.
We went to faire this past June and had invited our friends to go. They live 3 hours from us, so we were going to meet them there. Maxine (her second faire and her husband's first, they had their own garb) told us they had friends that they had mentioned going to, and the friends asked if they could go as well. So Maxine asked if I had garb that I could loan their friends, which we mailed to her.
The friends decided on the morning of, that they wanted to drive their own car, so they did. Well, this other couple lasted at the faire for less than 2 hours, then left. While we were perusing the stores, they stood in the middle of the lane. For shows, the four of us sat down, they stood in the back just outside the perimeter, and eventually said goodbye and left. So they were garbed, but miserable, and ended up leaving, while the 4 of us had a blast.
So just because someone is garbed, if they are unwilling, they might still not get into the spirit of the thing.
Quote from: Gwenwhistle on September 14, 2008, 08:15:16 AM
Thanks for your input, cowgrrl. Just curious, why DON'T you dress? I suppose in your particular case, you guys are ok with it and it works for you BUT, going to faire is our ONE TIME a year treat and for ME, anyway, being with someone who isn't willing to get in the spirit IS a moodkiller. I went one year with a guy who just wasn't into faire and vowed NEVER to do that again. Maybe I'm being selfish but we drive 2 hours and spend 200 bucks at least; I want it to be special each and every time, THIS year, most importantly for my daughter. Ya know? Yeah, I'm selfish............
There are lots of reasons. By the time we decided to get season passes & be 'rennies' I had decided to have weight loss surgery & buying garb seemed like a waste of money until I reach my goal weight. Also, I enjoy the interactions I have with the cast when I'm dressed in 'danes. They're more likely to mess with me & I like messing right back. I'm also pretty sure that even when I have garb I will not dress up on very hot days. I overheat somewhat easily & the garb will probably be replaced with a tank top & capris.
I do feel I'm just as much 'in the spirit' as anyone who is dressed up. As I said we have season passes to our closest faire & are there most weekends. I yell 'Huzzah', warn people with kids about opening cannon, purchase way more stuff than I should & see more shows than you can shake a steak on a stake at. I love faire, but on my terms, which include not dressing up.
Also, as I've mentioned before, everyone has their own comfort level. We took my in-laws to faire last year for the first time ever. Had we insisted that they 'get into the spirit' & dress up they more than likely would not have gone with us. Thankfully they did & had a wonderful time, even in 'danes. We'll probably end up taking my parents this year & its the same deal. In fact, none of us will probably dress up that day so we can just 'blend' together.
All that said, we're visiting TRF this year & I'm seriously considering renting garb for at least 1 day. I want to see how it feels to be dressed up. So I'm coming around. Just in my own time.
Absolutely, I agree about not forcing someone to wear garb; it makes no sense if they'll be completely miserable the whole time BUT,BUT,BUT.........SHE invited herself, I did not ask her to go then insist she dress. Doesn't that make a difference here? Also, Cowgrrl, it sounds like you are really into the faire despite what you might be wearing, which counts for alot when it comes to atmospere and mood; sounds like you hoot and holler with the rest of them so it doesn't matter in your case!
BTW, prayers to you for your weight loss! Hope it all goes your way.
Cat
I'm sure you've already thought of this, but did you ask her if she'd like to try on some garb at home, long before ever going to faire? Maybe if she could try it on at your house and walk around in it for a bit, she'd find it's not so bad after all. Who wants to throw on something they've never worn before (nor seen others wearing) in the morning and walk out the door to go to a place they've never been and risk feeling silly and awkward all day?
Just a thought.
Probably a bit late for this reply to be useful, but hopefully someone looking back at old posts will see it and learn from it. This post draws from my experience today (Saturday 2008-10-11) at TRF.
I can see both sides of the situation. I can see how someone in 21st century street clothes (aka "mundane" wear) can be distracting to those celebrating a much earlier period of history. I do plan for my remaining visits to faire in mundane wear to number in the single digits, with the possible exception of Dickens on the Strand and similar events (and only because I'd want to do a Victorian costume, and would consider Renaissance-era wear just as potentially distracting as mundanes).
I would expect that the number of rennies who attend their first faire in garb is rather low. My first three four visits to TRF were in mundane wear, and I'm not sure even renting garb is in the budget for the next one or two visits this season. So yes, that means I've never been to a faire in garb, yet I do see that day coming (probably if/when I go to Scarby in 2009, at the latest, TRF 2009).
At the same time, I probably would wear loaner garb if it were offered, were I in a comparable position of the mom in this situation. Whether or not I would rent garb at my own expense in that situation is something I don't think I can speculate on with any degree of accuracy. I can truthfully say I would sympathize with "to honor the son's/daughter's birthday" angle.
I also think the separate car idea is the best possible solution.
The odd thing about all this? My first visit to TRF was with my happily mundane mom and some former neighbors of ours. I was re-introduced by a friend who attended/attends TRF as a mundane and has/had, apparently, no shame about it (a friend who I'm not in touch with anymore, just by mere coincidence).
I love Blakduke's idea, though...
I myself, go to faire, about 1/2 the time, in danes! The reason being thatwhen my kids are with (which is more and more! :) ),they may want to leave when it gets too hot, and go do something else, somewhere else. To me, I don't always want to take the time to "ungarb" when we're busy. That may change, never know. But please remember this,we were all 'danes once!:) Don't try to force the issue, or you could lose a friendship, or totally turn someone off completely to the faire experience. This is just a friendly suggestion, I do not wish to start a heated debate!
Quote from: renren on October 12, 2008, 11:02:45 AM
I myself, go to faire, about 1/2 the time, in danes! The reason being thatwhen my kids are with (which is more and more! :) ),they may want to leave when it gets too hot, and go do something else, somewhere else. To me, I don't always want to take the time to "ungarb" when we're busy. That may change, never know.
Indeed, it's entirely possible I won't always go in garb when that time comes. I will probably hear a few jokes about my mundane alter ego, but I'll worry about those later...
Quote from: renren on October 12, 2008, 11:02:45 AM
But please remember this,we were all 'danes once!:) Don't try to force the issue, or you could lose a friendship, or totally turn someone off completely to the faire experience. This is just a friendly suggestion, I do not wish to start a heated debate!
As alluded to in my previous post, it's possible there are a few out there who have never attended faire as a mundane. They are of course a distinct minority but I would stop short of saying "all".
I know, I get lots of jokes, and "I didn't recognize you!" LOL!
Quote from: Lord Duelist on October 12, 2008, 01:25:26 PM
As alluded to in my previous post, it's possible there are a few out there who have never attended faire as a mundane. They are of course a distinct minority but I would stop short of saying "all".
::raises hand::
I've never been to faire as a 'dane. Went garbed my first time (as did my wife and the two renlings).
Tell her that rennies consider ungarbed people NAKED.. Would she want to go to faire NAKED? May be that would make her come to her senses.. Also, if she doesnt like /want any of your garb, costume rental at faire ( if yours have one) could be a good option..
Hubby and I got married at a faire and we requested that instead of wedding gifts, each guest would go and rent a costume.. Tell her that as a gift for your daughter's B-Day you would like her to rent a costume instead of buying a gift.. Its like $30-$50 per day..
blarg. I took my boyfriend to the faire last year and he wore a bright orange polo shirt and khaki pants. He was fun, but it's hard for me to be in character with he and his friends are walking around like tourists.
My other friend was fun. Though he was also in danes - denim shorts and an Immortal shirt - he played along with my character and interacted like a playtron with the cast. I'm definitely taking him this year, and I'm happy to lend if he wants.
As for my boyfriend, I told him that I like to go so I can be in character. I'm not offended if he goes with his friends, but I'd be really happy if he dressed up and saw it from my perspective.
QuoteTell her that rennies consider ungarbed people NAKED.. Would she want to go to faire NAKED?
I definitely feel way naked and weird if I go to faire in 'danes. I don't enjoy it nearly as much. I've been to faire in 'danes maybe four times, and it's just not comfortable for me. :P Haha
I went to my first faire at Sterling in 1983. I went as a "dane" because I did not know what to expect. I bought my first piece of garb(which I still have) and vowed never to go NAKED ever again. I cannot evision going to faire naked, but that is me. It is not for me to look oddly at people who choose to go to faire without garb and I guess it could be viewed that if there were no "DANES" there would be no faire. There are all manner of reasons to go to faire and I guess people should all go for their own reasons. The best reason is to have a good time no matter how your dressed.
The Blakduke
I'll go a bit farther and tell you all how much fun it is to go to the zoo, or the mall, or any number of places, garbed, in character.
over the top, hell no, not me. ;D
Quote from: Hey- Arent You? on December 06, 2009, 05:28:59 PM
I'll go a bit farther and tell you all how much fun it is to go to the zoo, or the mall, or any number of places, garbed, in character.
over the top, hell no, not me. ;D
It is a difference experience. I have also been to the zoo in my faire outfit and walked the Queen Mary (ship) as well. Last minute supply runs to the supermarker just before faire is also fun at times.
Now I have also been to faires in mundanes on a few ocassions but prefer to go dressed. I work the faire circuit in my area and sure, friends see me and question why I'm not dressed. I don't necessarily feel out of place when with them. On the other hand, you can take the outfit away from the Rennie but you can't take the character away. I still find myself speaking and interacting in character even when not dressed in my outfit at faire.
Bottom line, dressed is always better. because you become more a part of the atmosphere.
I can definitely understand why some people may feel uncomfortable garbing up, regardless of how silly we think they're being. My wife, the kids, and I go to multiple faires every year, but even after doing this for years she still gets a little nervous about it for the first faire of the season. Sometimes people don't understand that a good number of people will in fact be in garb, and they don't want to feel out of place, or they feel that they will not fit in with the people in garb, either in action or in quality of garb. Some people may think that all the comments and jokes about things like 'if you can breath its not tight enough' are the way things really are and have to be. They may not understand that that was how people dressed, and no matter what people may be willing to sacrifice for fashion, clothes (especially for peasants and middle class) had to be functional, and in most cases at least bareable. I'm not saying that you shouldn't encourage people to dress, quite the opposite in fact. I think faires would be even better if everyone would go in garb, but that is realistically never going to happen unless they want to not allow people in in mundanes. If you know someone who wants to go, but does not want to go in garb, find out why, and address their particular concerns. By being too pushy, saying go in garb or not at all, you may actually reinforce what fears they have about going in garb, and about faires in general. For something special, like a birthday celebration, where you want everyone involved to be involved, let them know that you are trying to do something special for that occasion, and make sure they know it is for that occasion only. Liken it to a costume party with a particular theme, if it'll help. Offer to take them on a different faire outing, either before or after, to get the feel of the faire, and the concept of garb. Before would obviously be better, as you could get them to go garbed for the event. If getting someone in particular to go in garb is important to you, let them know, and know why, address whatever fears they have about, be patient, and be willing to accept it if, in the end, its not their thing. The last thing we want or need is another crazy rennie story running around out there.
Back when I was younger, I was a little more active in trying to find a local smith to teach me the craft. I did find one at a local faire one year, who was willing to take me on as apprentice if I could have a 'trial run' at that faire at his forge. However, through absolute bad luck, it was one of the few times I have gone out of garb, and he couldn't let me behind the rope in mundanes. Of course, being of mixed emotion (happy at finding him, and sad at not being able to do it) I was too absent minded to get further contact info to try again later.
Bottom line, it always pays to go in garb, you never know what opportunities may arise.
So this thread has been brought up again after a while..... my question is, did the friend go, and what did she wear?