I figure I'll offer up my take on TRF 2008 opening day, from what is only my second season attending as an adult. (I know, this is long... but in a roundabout way, this may well be a better intro than my actual intro post.)
I'll start by saying I absolutely, positively had a wonderful time, from cannon to fireworks. I am also grateful I made my Thanksgiving Friday visit last year, as the experience I gained from that trip was used to its fullest extents today.
It seemed like the crowd was a bit thin, this being a combination of observations from the portion of the drive down FM 1774 past Magnolia, through the entire day, through the drive home down TX 105 to I-45 (more on this later). The only contrary evidence was the seating in The Arena still relatively full at fireworks time. One would think discounted tickets would solve this problem (hey, the discount certainly helped my budget).
This may be the second, and last, time I actually plan on seeing a 9:30am show start to finish. I lost track of time browsing at the start of the day and only caught most of the last half of Arsene. What I did catch was Arsene's usual hilarious act, so it was not a total loss. I made a tentative plan to use the "open" time later in the afternoon to see an Arsene show in its entirety (specifically the 3:30pm show), after realizing staying put for the entire the 11:30 show would likely make me late for the noon gathering at the Prince of Wales pub. (In true geek fashion, I timed my walk from POW to the Odeon at around 1min30 to 1min45, this show ended at 10:06, so that's a good 8-9 minutes late, possibly more if it ran even longer.)
The first real change I notice is this year, the sodas are Pepsi products. At least Dr. Pepper is still being served. I don't know the politics or financial details of how that happens; I just know I felt like an idiot when I asked for a Coke. I can live with Dr. Pepper, though.
At Sound and Fury's 10:30am show (which is one I've seen before, but still insanely funny), I learn they added a new show (entitled "A Little Death" if I remember right) which would debut at 4:30pm. At this point I am still undecided as to whether or not I'll try to fit it in.
I use a bit of the open time before noon to venture over to Sherwood Forest and get in what has become an obligatory attempt at Drench-a-wench. New wench this year, with a completely different attitude and style from last year's (again, it may well be someone different every year). I also browse a few shops, and snag lunch (I forgot the shop name, but it's the BBQ Dragon sandwich).
And this is the slightly embarrassing part... I've forgotten most of the names of the people I was introduced to, besides Valt; I remember faces at least, it's just a question of matching to names from the avatars and/or pictures. (note to self: must not wear yellow shirt next visit)
I had set aside about an hour and a half, and despite the parade the crowd thins out well before 1pm I decide to rearrange the schedule the second time scratching the tentative plan for the 3:30pm Arsene show.
So I dash over to the Agora stage to catch Gypsy Dance Theatre's 1:00pm show and Christoph the Insulter's 1:30pm show, the latter of which is likely one of my new favorites. Next time I'll have to find someone to go to that show with, given how he runs his show (which I can explain in a future post if nobody else beats me to it).
I have a little more open time (I think I grab more food and just kind of stroll a bit) before waiting until 3:30pm for The Other Brothers, who also did not disappoint.
And then comes Sound and Fury's 4:30pm show. For a show they are still trying to work out some of the rough edges for, it was great.
Finally it's time for Iris & Rose at the Sea Devil Tavern at 5:30pm. I'll just say if Iris & Rose ever truly disappoint me, I will know the world is about to end. My sides hurt by the end of this one from laughing so hard. (Iris & Rose felt it necessary to apologize for running overtime, surprising for a 5:30pm show, when I suspect most people would otherwise be just waiting for the fireworks.)
The only other thing to note is I did, for once, try out the TX 105/I-45 route on my way home, in an attempt to avoid what I suspect to be the more traveled FM 1774/TX 249 route. I can see why some like this route, though it did seem like it took longer before I felt like I was making real progress back towards Houston.
Opening day was, to be sure ... an enormous amount of fun. Hope to meet even more of you in the coming weeks.
Opening day was a ton of fun!
the only bad thing that happened all weekend was some drunken weed kicker harassing some neighbors who eventually got the cops to handle him. everything else was pretty normal...hanging out with some friends, doing some shopping, eating good food, drinking a little (too much), meeting a few new people.
good times. hopefully I can get some pictures uploaded in the near future to share.
Quote from: Lord Duelist on October 11, 2008, 11:45:08 PM
It seemed like the crowd was a bit thin, this being a combination of observations from the portion of the drive down FM 1774 past Magnolia, through the entire day, through the drive home down TX 105 to I-45 (more on this later). The only contrary evidence was the seating in The Arena still relatively full at fireworks time. One would think discounted tickets would solve this problem (hey, the discount certainly helped my budget).
Crowd was definitely
not thin! With a headcount of 26,200+, it may have been a record opening day. The areas I could see from my booth were certainly crowded.
The headcounts I heard were 26,500+/- for Saturday, and 17,000+/- for Sunday. These are incredible numbers for Opening Weekend, and are good numbers for just about any weekend. Factor in Hurricane Ike, high gas prices, and the state of the economy, and these numbers are even more impressive.
I think this is due to a combination of several factors which include the discount tickets (which are a standard practice for every season, BTW), the fact that the Astros aren't in the playoffs, the incredibly nice weather, the fact that this was actually the second weekend in October, rather than the first, and people just wanting to relieve some stress and have some fun.
What truly surprised me was how early the crowd made it back to Sherwood Forrest both Saturday and Sunday. Typically we don't get busy back there until after 11:00 a.m on Saturday, and after noon on Sunday. We had patrons in Sherwood by 10:00 a.m. both days, and they stayed until nearly 7:00 p.m.. Even better, they were playing and having fun. :D
As for the Drench-A-Wenches, there are more than one. The ones we have this year are veterans, but unless you stayed through all of the shift changes this year and last, you haven't seen all of them. To further confuse matters, we sometimes make a temporary change when one of the ladies is feeling bad, or if we have a young lady wanting to try her hand at it.
Randal
Lord Duelist, I am glad you had a fantastic time at Faire this weekend and hope you get to come back soon!
Excellent observations, Randal. Lots of folks apparently have decided they need to get away from mundanity and TRF is a great way to do it. Official opening weekend attendance was 43,626 which places it among the best opening weekends ever! Didn't make it back to Sherwood but I'll get back there to see you in a week or two.
I will say this from the performers side there were plenty of paytron that wanted to play and sing-a-long. To those that came by the Sea Devil and even more to those who came out and sang at the Pub Sing.
Thank You
It was good to see you again, Broadside. The pub sing was a lot of fun. Did the performers decide to move it to the Feast Hall in future weeks or will it remain at the Leek and Daffodil?
That is under discussion as we speak. We moved it on Sunday to the benches outside of the POW and had mixed reactions. We were going to have it inside the Feast Hall but there was not enough word of mouth to get an audience to show up. So I would say that if you are interested in showing up for the Pub Sing check with us during the day at the Sea Devil and we should be able to let you know where it is going to be.
I guess that is the trouble with having something that is technically unofficial. You never know exactly where or who is going to show up.
I had a great time on Saturday. I got to try out my new Jester outfit and character and had a blast. The people were fun on Saturday. It was great to see Var! I missed Bonnie though :(. She was in the feast when I was at the POW looking for her. Ah well.
Quote from: Chianti on October 13, 2008, 10:37:26 AM
I had a great time on Saturday. I got to try out my new Jester outfit and character and had a blast. The people were fun on Saturday. It was great to see Var! I missed Bonnie though :(. She was in the feast when I was at the POW looking for her. Ah well.
The new outfit looked great. Thanks for dropping by.
I had a WONDEROUS time! See News from Meow Manor in the Realm of Glenlivet for more.
So sorry I miss you Chianti- When will you be there again? I sure missed you on cast! but I Loved the Kings feast! Lord A would have adored it! Prime Rib! What a treat! I had fun! I even stayed in one spot for 2 hours! Hard for me to do- usually! I will be at the rest of the meet and greets! I hope!
I spent the whole weekend hugging old friends and meeting new friends- alas no wizard as yet. Getting out my Wizard Wanted sign for next weekend- and hope I have better luck this year!
I Needed this weekend- and the hugs. There is way too much reality in my life - I hate dressing like a Muggle- and TRF revived my spirits! See you all again- soon. I want to find the pirate pub sing! New contest? Find the pirate Pub Sing? Yo Ho! LOL!
Quote from: Queen Bonnie on October 13, 2008, 01:26:39 PM
I had a WONDEROUS time! See News from Meow Manor in the Realm of Glenlivet for more.
So sorry I miss you Chianti- When will you be there again? I sure missed you on cast! but I Loved the Kings feast! Lord A would have adored it! Prime Rib! What a treat! I had fun! I even stayed in one spot for 2 hours! Hard for me to do- usually! I will be at the rest of the meet and greets! I hope!
I spent the whole weekend hugging old friends and meeting new friends- alas no wizard as yet. Getting out my Wizard Wanted sign for next weekend- and hope I have better luck this year!
I Needed this weekend- and the hugs. There is way too much reality in my life - I hate dressing like a Muggle- and TRF revived my spirits! See you all again- soon. I want to find the pirate pub sing! New contest? Find the pirate Pub Sing? Yo Ho! LOL!
Queen Bonnie, again it was a pleasure to see you, and an honor to have you as a guest in our shop. See you next weekend!
Quote from: LadyElizabeth on October 13, 2008, 01:30:31 PM
I really do understand why the true Queen of TRF and all fairs have hired Guards to protect them from the mundane onslaught!! How I do wish I had my own "Chris" or Guard to protect me...
I do want to say though that I did not allow the insanity to ruin my time at all!!! Opening weekend this year will go down as a fabulous opening weekend!!
I am SURE there are many men and women on the Forums that would Gladly be your escort!
Hugs Elizabeth! You are so beautiful- everyone wants a picture! Amazing garb!
I find it is handy being a Wizard Queen!I need no royal guard- but it might be fun?- When things get annoying- I can just disappear! POOF!
I miss my Wizard Escort! Lord A once said NO when someone asked us to pose for a picture! It was so unlike him! He made them grovel! It works very well and is amusing too!!
Quote from: LadyElizabeth on October 13, 2008, 01:51:24 PM
See the problem is that most mundanes have no clue that I'm not the real Queen of the fair or at least on cast there. So if I am at all rude to them or ignore them or something, then they could end up looking unfavorably at TRF in general or making complaints to the festival staff. I don't want that to happen either, so I play along and am usually just flattered by the attention.... it's just that Saturday was so over the top invasive and beyond annoying that by the end of the day I came close to blatantly yelling at a few rude folks. I just hate loosing my cool composure and love of my time like that.
My Lady Elizabeth, when the hoards become unbearable. you are quite welcome to decompress in the wizard realm of Pyro City. It is a hidden kingdom that is not visible to most mortals.
However please note that we are rude too, but in a good way. ;D
Hey PyroMaster, what was up with us getting shorted that last *BANG* at closing cannon???
ONLY TWO NOW?????
Lady Elizabeth any time you see me around and need an escort to get someplace just ask. I have a little bit of practice in doing that from Four Winds and Scarby.
There we already have a Royal Guard getting put together giving their services to you!
Quote from: blue66669 on October 13, 2008, 02:57:37 PM
Hey PyroMaster, what was up with us getting shorted that last *BANG* at closing cannon???
ONLY TWO NOW?????
Oh. Um. You noticed that, then? ... Yes, we are doing 2 booms now. 2 are as good as 3, right? And besides, these are LOUD booms! We set off a chariot alarm for the first time in years on Sunday :o
Quote from: PyroMaster on October 13, 2008, 03:31:38 PM
Quote from: blue66669 on October 13, 2008, 02:57:37 PM
Hey PyroMaster, what was up with us getting shorted that last *BANG* at closing cannon???
ONLY TWO NOW?????
Oh. Um. You noticed that, then? ... Yes, we are doing 2 booms now. 2 are as good as 3, right? And besides, these are LOUD booms! We set off a chariot alarm for the first time in years on Sunday :o
Think you could squeeze off 3 good booms for me next Saturday? I promise, I'll leave you alone for the rest of the season...
I wanted to chime in that you outdid yourself on the fireworks Sunday!! Great job!!
Quote from: ravic on October 13, 2008, 08:55:18 AM
Quote from: Lord Duelist on October 11, 2008, 11:45:08 PM
It seemed like the crowd was a bit thin, this being a combination of observations from the portion of the drive down FM 1774 past Magnolia, through the entire day, through the drive home down TX 105 to I-45 (more on this later). The only contrary evidence was the seating in The Arena still relatively full at fireworks time. One would think discounted tickets would solve this problem (hey, the discount certainly helped my budget).
Crowd was definitely not thin! With a headcount of 26,200+, it may have been a record opening day. The areas I could see from my booth were certainly crowded.
Okay, maybe my observations missed just a bit. Wouldn't be the first time. It's entirely possible that more of them came later and/or left earlier.
Quote from: Randal on October 13, 2008, 09:54:35 AM
As for the Drench-A-Wenches, there are more than one. The ones we have this year are veterans, but unless you stayed through all of the shift changes this year and last, you haven't seen all of them. To further confuse matters, we sometimes make a temporary change when one of the ladies is feeling bad, or if we have a young lady wanting to try her hand at it.
Wow, I guess I do indeed learn something new every day. Last year I saw the same one both times I went and assumed there weren't nearly as many. Guess my newness is showing...
Quote from: Lord Dragonspyre on October 13, 2008, 09:57:51 AM
Lord Duelist, I am glad you had a fantastic time at Faire this weekend and hope you get to come back soon!
Tentatively my next visit is slated for November 15th. There's a lot going on in my mundane life right now, or it would be sooner.
Element of Air, there is no WAY that TRF cast would be stopping you and asking for a picture. We aren't allowed to carry cameras, for one, and we're in character at all times inside the gates, for another.
LadyElizabeth, they'll soon enough catch on that you're not wearing a white badge. All will be well.
It's not silly at all, Elizabeth. As your Hatchet sister and a friend, all you need to say is that I need an escort and this wench will be at your side. ;) Great to see you this weekend, by the way, and looking forward to seeing you and your sister at All Hallows Eve, darlin!
A lot of the 'danes don't see the white badge nor do I think that they care. I was stopped for photos on a few occasions this weekend and my garb is nowhere as stunning as Elizabeths. *shrug* Sometimes they can be a bit ridiculous...I know I had a bit of an issue getting some photos of Element this weekend during the chainmaille show as a good portion of the photographers were quite pushy and rude, both returning photographers and one-time 'danes. But then again, I also snapped at two tall men who were standing in front of another short photographer and I...so I got myself to where I could see. 8)
Quote from: LadyElizabeth on October 13, 2008, 01:30:31 PM
I do want to say though that I did not allow the insanity to ruin my time at all!!! opening weekend this year will go down as a fabulous opening weekend!!
Yes this was a fabulous weekend but it would have been more fun if we found eachother sooner.
You know I am there for you any time you need me. I will keep people from bugging you too much.
I can't wait till next weekend when we run around together all weekend and play. Email me on myspace with your number.
I am not going to even start talking about how many times I was stopped for pictures. I am The Cat Girl of the Ren Fairer people want to take pictures with me I'm OK with it. We dress up and people are going to want to take pictures of us in our really cool outfits, But I see what you are saying some people just don't get it.
Quote from: Element of Air on October 13, 2008, 01:16:54 PM
I am so sorry about that. :( It is always really frustrating when that happens.
I got stopped a few times by mundanes AND cast. (Cast is the worst because they DON'T leave you alone) If I am busy, I tell them generally, "I don't work here or I do work here (if it is cast) and I have not eaten all day/have to use the rest room/am speaking with friends I have not seen in years, I am sorry but at this time I can not take a picture with you, perhaps later"
Most of the time I have Chris with me to escort me around so I don't have to deal with that. And if i do get stopped, he does all the talking for me. ;)
Just to reiterate what Mad Queen Juana said, Performance Company members (cast) DO NOT carry cameras and are not taking photos on site. There may be some photographers who are allowed to wear the white performers medallions, but that is to designate that they fall under Jeff Baldwin's department (Entertainment). I don't know who it was that was asking you for photos, and whom you thought was a performance company member, but I can assure you, a member of the performance company it was not. We are there to perform, entertain, and personally engage as many people who walk through those gates as possible, not to take photos of patrons and others in attendance. Were we doing otherwise, I can assure you that we would be in big trouble. Do you remember who it was (assumed cast members) who were asking for your photos? I can tell you once and for all if they actually are on cast. Performance company members are designated by a white medallion on their left lapel, or somewhere in the vicinity of the left shoulder. There are many performance company members who are members of this forum and would concur with me.
I just wanted to chime in on the topic of being photographed non-stop, having experienced it myself when I filled in for Rosella (Queen Catherine) for two weekends in 2006. Wearing a gorgeous costume like that and being a high profile character, one may as well be walking around with a huge neon sign saying "HI!!! I'M THE QUEEN!!! STOP ME EVERY FEW STEPS AND TAKE MY PICTURE, INVADE MY PERSONAL SPACE, AND THEN GET MAD AT ME IF I CAN'T STOP BECAUSE I AM ON MY WAY TO A SHOW AND CANNOT BE LATE." But, it is part and parcel with the role and the fabulous look. My own personal advice is just to accept that if you are going to wear something spectactular, then be prepared for the weird phenomenon that the public feel as if they have some sort of entitlement to you. Its strange, I know, but just be gracious and accept it as flattery, and try to keep moving. People aren't TRYING to be rude, they just want to be able to get that beautiful photograph to keep forever. Its not like they get to see this stuff every day. : )
Cheers!
Can't remember the last time my feet hurt that bad, but hey it was day one and I can't remember if I sat down at any point other then to punch a hole into a hat. Though hilights of the weekend can easily be described. Meeting Dragon was a pleasure, as was meeting Blue (even if it was to give us hugs really quickly on her lunch break). Wish I had the energy to meet more of you, but after work I crashed on Saturday and headed home after inventory on Sunday.
Hopefully I'll get to meet more in the coming weeks, of course I need folks to come by Excalibur Leather and say hi since so far there hasn't been much time to take a walk around faire. Specially since I know after Faire ends this Saturday I'll probably be sitting next to my car listening to the Longhorns beat Mizzo, and now I'm rambling.
Quote from: Element of Air on October 13, 2008, 09:23:54 PM
Quote from: Mad Queen Juana on October 13, 2008, 07:59:07 PM
Element of Air, there is no WAY that TRF cast would be stopping you and asking for a picture. We aren't allowed to carry cameras, for one, and we're in character at all times inside the gates, for another.
No the cast do not stop me asking for my picture. But the cast and hawkers try to tell you jokes and get you to laugh and they play jokes on you and try to get you involved. And make it difficult for you to be on your way. They will stop you on your way somewhere. It is highly annoying.
You do realize that performance company members read and participate in this forum. All you have to do is politely say you are in a hurry and thank them. They are only doing their job. I know it's annoying for hawkers to try to sell to cast members but I usually just show them the badge and say I work there, then thank them and go on my way if I'm in a hurry. Or maybe don't make eye contact if we are that aggravating to you.
Opening weekend
Wow
Just now feeling human again, I don't recall the last time I was that tired. I don't think I ever stopped moving from the walkabout Friday night as we invaded a few other camps picking up stragglers along the way to getting my brand new purty boots first thing Saturday to getting new garb for the Lovely Lady Trinn to seeing Iris and Rose to more shopping to the train wreck show to the loki challenge to dinner at McLotofus to the next days shopping trips and shows.... wow what a blast!
Met tons of new friends, had a fantastic time. Can't wait for All Hallow's Eve!
*and there was a lot of rum mixed in there as well*
QuoteYou're wrong, there. We do. Perhaps even more so, as we're actually interacting with them. Greg and 'Lela's guards don't refuse requests, and I can pretty much promise you that traveling in a group of people isn't going to stop the onslaught of photo requests.
I've purchased the materials for and constructed (or commissioned) every single one of my court gowns, but even if I hadn't - you're right, I'm paid to do just that. You're not. You pay to get in and enjoy your time. It's unfair, but when you wear such an outrageous costume, you're going to get photographed. Like I said, avoid eye-contact, pretend you didn't hear - whatever. Put yourself in those shoes and try and think of the best way to get out of offending someone.
Plus, we might have hiding-holes, but you're always welcome to go back out to the parking lot and hide in your car.
So, you can say all you want about me sticking up for my sis and being bias, but really this chasticement is completely uncalled for.... I bet u have never met us or even seen us. so how can u know how we interact with the crowds?
You have a good point, liz could simply come in no costume. it is her choice. but really, i doubt u don't dress up. i love to dress up and so does liz. and we simply love love love acting the part of whoever we dress as. we love interacting with patrons, mundanes and everyone else that comes up. we love getting out of the day to day life and reinacting the past, fully engrossed in the time period!! we are the nicest and friendliest people to everyone we meet. so no way will i allow u to address her in such a way!!!
i spent 30 min dancing around and playing with some random mundane kids who came up to me. i held 4 babies. talked to all kinds of mundanes all day long. engaged sorely looking people just to see them smile, talked to anyone just looking at me, was extremely friendly and nice to all of them!!! i interact, play along, crack jokes and am generally extremely nice to everyone--- same goes for liz.
however, there were some people who came up to us at very inopportune moments and simply demanded that we pay attention to them, like they owned us. they were extremely rude. now, i understand they want pics of us. we look great. but really, there is a way to ask and a way not to. The costumes won't look any different whether we are smiling at you or trying to have a conversation.
if we were paid or these weren't our costumes or we could have more than a 3 min conversation without being interupted, it wouldn't be an issue. but this is a forum of friends. of rennies who support each other and try to understand the issues others have. so please withold your judgement princess until u've walked a mile in our shoes.
neither she or i would ever think for a second about pretending to not hear someone or trying to ignore another person, we are NOT rude people. that's being just as bad as those people who were offensive to us. and i'm sorry, but going back out to the car to cower is not an option. and btw, neither liz or i offended anyone to our knowledge the whole day, but thier offenses did weigh on us... and that is why she mentioned something on here.... among 'understanding friends'.
(I am removeing my postes because people are making this an argument. I said nothing about cast taking pictures, and nothing about unwanted attention. Only that when i have to be somewhere, I dont like to be stopped. Just as a person in general, Not even at Fair.) Sorry for the arguments
I hate to say it but, rude people are just a fact of life. And the person that feels entitled to taking a whole memory card of photos with you is probably the same sort of person who honks when you don't move as quickly as they would like when the light turns green, cuts you off in the grocery checkout line, and answers their cell phone in the movie theater.
Part of the reason, I believe, people come to faire is to see the pageantry and suspend reality.
As a playtron and fellow "big dress wearer", if I can provide even an inkling of aid toward this end, its a good thing. I love the fact that kids think I'm some sort of princess, and by taking the time to speak to them I feel I am helping to cultivate a future generation of Ren-Folk. Granted, I'm probably mildly narcissistic and I thrive on the attention, which is usually positive and sincere, because faire is a way for me to exhibit my talents and the attention is good for my self esteem. ;)
However, for every positive encounter there will likely be an equally negative one. When one considers the concentration of people, of all sorts of walks of life, add to that impaired judgment, either from too many libations or the "magic" of faire, and negative encounters are inevitable.
Keep in mind that part of faire's charm, the whole other world aspect, may induce culture shock in the mundanes. Many of them really just don't know how to behave, be it insisting on photo after photo or stepping on the hem of a skirt and then laughing inanely when the wearer nearly keels over.
Keeping in mind these things, one must come up with one's own coping strategy, be it dress less ostentatiously, explaining that you don't work at faire and buy a ticket like the rest of the hoi poli, or taking it in stride with grace and dignity befitting someone of your station.
Quote from: rumy on October 14, 2008, 12:00:17 PM
QuoteYou're wrong, there. We do. Perhaps even more so, as we're actually interacting with them. Greg and 'Lela's guards don't refuse requests, and I can pretty much promise you that traveling in a group of people isn't going to stop the onslaught of photo requests.
I've purchased the materials for and constructed (or commissioned) every single one of my court gowns, but even if I hadn't - you're right, I'm paid to do just that. You're not. You pay to get in and enjoy your time. It's unfair, but when you wear such an outrageous costume, you're going to get photographed. Like I said, avoid eye-contact, pretend you didn't hear - whatever. Put yourself in those shoes and try and think of the best way to get out of offending someone.
Plus, we might have hiding-holes, but you're always welcome to go back out to the parking lot and hide in your car.
So, you can say all you want about me sticking up for my sis and being bias, but really this chasticement is completely uncalled for.... I bet u have never met us or even seen us. so how can u know how we interact with the crowds?
You have a good point, liz could simply come in a no costume. it is her choice. but really, i doubt u don't dress up. i love to dress up and so does liz. and we simply love love love acting the part of whoever we dress as. we love interacting with patrons, mundanes and everyone else that comes up. we love getting out of the day to day life and reinacting the past, fully engrossed in the time period!! we are the nicest and friendliest people to everyone we meet. so no way will i allow u to address her in such a way!!!
i spent 30 min dancing around and playing with some random mundane kids who came up to me. i held 4 babies. talked to all kinds of mundanes all day long. engaged sorely looking people just to see them smile, talked to anyone just looking at me, was extremely friendly and nice to all of them!!! i interact, play along, crack jokes and am generally extremely nice to everyone--- same goes for liz.
however, there were some people who came up to us at very unopportune moments and simply demanded that we pay attention to them, like they owned us. they was extremely rude. now, i understand they want pics of us. we look great. but really, there is a way to ask and a way not to. The costumes won't look any different whether we are smiling at you or trying to have a conversation.
if we were paid or these weren't our costumes or we could have more than a 3 min conversation without being interupted, it wouldn't be an issue. but this is a forum of friends. of rennies who support each other and try to understand the issues others have. so please withold your judgement princess until u've walked a mile in our shoes.
neither she or i would ever think for a second about pretending to not hear someone or trying to ignore another person, we are NOT rude people. that's being just as bad as those people who were offensive to us. and i'm sorry, but going back out to the car to cower is not an option. and btw, neither liz or i offended anyone to our knowledge the whole day, but thier offenses did weigh on us... and that is why she mentioned something on here.... among 'understanding friends'.
thank you for your defense of liz below...
QuoteYou're wrong, there. We do. Perhaps even more so, as we're actually interacting with them. Greg and 'Lela's guards don't refuse requests, and I can pretty much promise you that traveling in a group of people isn't going to stop the onslaught of photo requests.
I've purchased the materials for and constructed (or commissioned) every single one of my court gowns, but even if I hadn't - you're right, I'm paid to do just that. You're not. You pay to get in and enjoy your time. It's unfair, but when you wear such an outrageous costume, you're going to get photographed. Like I said, avoid eye-contact, pretend you didn't hear - whatever. Put yourself in those shoes and try and think of the best way to get out of offending someone.
Plus, we might have hiding-holes, but you're always welcome to go back out to the parking lot and hide in your car.
Okay, I think my tone was a little misunderstood. I didn't mean to chastise - really, truly I didn't. The internet is weird - here, I thought I was being fairly even-toned, but I can see how that came off as a bit stiff. So, lemme rephrase. :)
I agree - it's highly annoying to be insistently stopped when you're on your way to do something. Anything. Especially when you're obliged to be somewhere. I've learned, through years of dealing with this, that there are ways around it (such as explaining that you're obliged elsewhere, that you're on your way to pee - no one can refuse that - or, when all else fails and you HAVE to get somewhere such as a joust, like, five minutes ago, running flat-out, no matter what, until you get there). I didn't mean that she needed to be rude about it - at several points, I
did say "polite refusal" and "place yourself in their shoes." :)
I just got this vision of a group of people ganging up on photograph-requesters - and that disturbed me. What if that group of people got really aggravated, and insisted on standing up "In the Name of the Queen?" *That's* what I was pointing to, not your (understandable) wish to ward off your sister's hasslers.
Honestly, though, I do understand where you're both coming from. All I was trying to do was point to a reasonable compromise. And your sister
did say that she got noticeably less *unwanted* attention when she wore her pirate costume.
Again, I'm really sorry that my intentions were misinterpreted - but I can totally see how easy it was. :)
Quote from: LadyElizabeth on October 14, 2008, 11:53:54 AM
I camp at fair, so my site is a good 20 minute walk from the front gate in all my garb... not really an option for a respite!
I know that many of those on cast are wearing gowns owned by TRF, so you are more of one of the unusual there.
I really don't mind the photos and I also "interact" with the crowds, I just mind it when they are rude, abusive, take up my entire day, or make me late. Sat was the only day I've ever worn my QE1 garb and actually found the crowds and attention a bit much.
I hope you didn't take that car comment as, "If you don't like it, go take your toys and play elsewhere" - there are times when I definitely wish for that particular freedom! :) But I agree - 20 minutes is a bit long to shlep for some peace and quiet.
Surely one of your friends mans a booth - could you not hide out there?
Many do wear TRF-owned gowns, you're right. I share that same "love to make 'em AND wear 'em" passion.
all is forgiven as misunderstandings often occur without ur facial expessions to show true feelings. it's no big deal. some people outside of the forums have ACTUALLY chastised her for her remarks. so i wanted to make things absolutely clear and unmistakeable. not just for u princess f.
QuoteI just got this vision of a group of people ganging up on photograph-requesters - and that disturbed me. What if that group of people got really aggravated, and insisted on standing up "In the Name of the Queen?" *That's* what I was pointing to, not your (understandable) wish to ward off your sister's hasslers.
I just keep picturing the brute squad from the Princess Bride.
We had a great first opening weekend! It did seem really busy on Saturday. We are really excited to get back there again in a couple weeks.
We wore our can tab outfits and had a really good response to them. We got stopped quite a bit, which is totally new to us, but great. I can just imagine what it's like to be stopped every few steps trying to go somewhere in those beautiful gowns. I must say it was strange having strangers snapping pics. :) We actually had more people running up to touch us and ask questions than taking pics. It was a hoot!
Sorry, everyone, we had to dash away from the POW. My daughter wore her sandals after we warned her not to. She tripped on a crack scrapping her knee and then got a blister. Poor girl, we needed to get her back to camp for repairs. She says she still had lots of fun, anyway.
Quote from: Element of Air on October 14, 2008, 12:06:06 PM
(I am removeing my postes because people are making this an argument. I said nothing about cast taking pictures, and nothing about unwanted attention. Only that when i have to be somewhere, I dont like to be stopped. Just as a person in general, Not even at Fair.) Sorry for the arguments
NO NO!! No arguments here.
As one of the directors of the Performance Company, and a fellow performer, I need to clarify where things might be misunderstood, miscontrued, misrepresented or not realized. Its also my job to support my fellow player as they come under my tutelage.
On the other hand, if there is someone out there representing themselves as a member of the performance company and they are in fact NOT, we need to know about that. And if there is a member of the performance company behaving innapropriately, that needs to be known too.
We all, actors, attendees, vendor personnel. are busy, have things to do, places to be, and sometimes we just have to accept that there are going to be obstacles to us getting where we need to go and getting done what we need to get done. We have a saying in the Performance Company; "We are like reeds. We bend in the wind."
I've done royal guard at Four Winds and Scarby you would be surprised how just having a excort leading the way will clear a path and stop people from asking for a picture. You just put on a serious face and march and 9 times out of 10 people get the idea that you are in a hurry and not to be stopped. First couple of times I saw people start to move forward see the escort and back off was a surprise its like hey do they think we are really guards or something? Body clues go a long way most of the time.
We had a great opening weekend. Though we're completely and totally exhausted. We bought lots of new items for camp this year, but that means a whole helluva lot more to put up and take down. But other than Thursday night being so cold, it was a great weekend. I haven't had that good of time at TRF since the Don Miguel proposed back in 2003. *Barbara Streisand singing Memories ensues*
The wee one had a blast chasing the fairies and playing with them. She got her very first set of wings and was playing butterfly all day. I didn't think she'd keep them on being only 2, but we couldn't get them off her! And all she wanted to do was play with the "Faywees".
I can't wait to get back. Nov 1 seems so far away right now......
Quote from: Tudor-Diva on October 14, 2008, 12:54:54 PM
Quote from: Element of Air on October 14, 2008, 12:06:06 PM
(I am removeing my postes because people are making this an argument. I said nothing about cast taking pictures, and nothing about unwanted attention. Only that when i have to be somewhere, I dont like to be stopped. Just as a person in general, Not even at Fair.) Sorry for the arguments
We all, actors, attendees, vendor personnel. are busy, have things to do, places to be, and sometimes we just have to accept that there are going to be obstacles to us getting where we need to go and getting done what we need to get done. We have a saying in the Performance Company; "We are like reeds. We bend in the wind."
and when you don't bend you call for a BROADSIDE..... and he will clear a path. :P This is why i love being a PIRATE.... The Flying V works well to move people from you path....
P.O.B.
Quote from: x0x_teach_x0x on October 14, 2008, 07:41:22 AM
Opening weekend
Wow
Just now feeling human again, I don't recall the last time I was that tired. I don't think I ever stopped moving from the walkabout Friday night as we invaded a few other camps picking up stragglers along the way to getting my brand new purty boots first thing Saturday to getting new garb for the Lovely Lady Trinn to seeing Iris and Rose to more shopping to the train wreck show to the loki challenge to dinner at McLotofus to the next days shopping trips and shows.... wow what a blast!
Met tons of new friends, had a fantastic time. Can't wait for All Hallow's Eve!
*and there was a lot of rum mixed in there as well*
And with all that - I still have Trinns bottle of Tequila... Eventually I'll get this bottle to ya... Our next visit will be Pirate weekend, Saturday only though. After that we'll be back in the campground for Highland Fling and Celtic Christmas (closing weekend).
See y'all then,
Michael
Quote from: Broadside on October 14, 2008, 01:31:08 PM
Quote from: Tudor-Diva on October 14, 2008, 12:54:54 PM
Quote from: Element of Air on October 14, 2008, 12:06:06 PM
(I am removeing my postes because people are making this an argument. I said nothing about cast taking pictures, and nothing about unwanted attention. Only that when i have to be somewhere, I dont like to be stopped. Just as a person in general, Not even at Fair.) Sorry for the arguments
We all, actors, attendees, vendor personnel. are busy, have things to do, places to be, and sometimes we just have to accept that there are going to be obstacles to us getting where we need to go and getting done what we need to get done. We have a saying in the Performance Company; "We are like reeds. We bend in the wind."
and when you don't bend you call for a BROADSIDE..... and he will clear a path. :P This is why i love being a PIRATE.... The Flying V works well to move people from you path....
P.O.B.
And toss my name along side Broadsides, I doubt very many people would stand in the way of two *ahem* gentlemen our size barrelling towards them.
Yep, being a pirate does kinda rock.
*another effective path clearer would be to toss out a bottle of rum and tell me I can have it if I catch it.... and watch the mundanes fly like bowling pins out of my way*
Quote from: x0x_teach_x0x on October 14, 2008, 01:50:03 PM
*another effective path clearer would be to toss out a bottle of rum and tell me I can have it if I catch it.... and watch the mundanes fly like bowling pins out of my way*
Bwahahaha! I just had the BEST mental Image EVAR! ;D
Quote from: blue66669 on October 13, 2008, 03:42:50 PM
Quote from: PyroMaster on October 13, 2008, 03:31:38 PM
Quote from: blue66669 on October 13, 2008, 02:57:37 PM
Hey PyroMaster, what was up with us getting shorted that last *BANG* at closing cannon???
ONLY TWO NOW?????
Oh. Um. You noticed that, then? ... Yes, we are doing 2 booms now. 2 are as good as 3, right? And besides, these are LOUD booms! We set off a chariot alarm for the first time in years on Sunday :o
Think you could squeeze off 3 good booms for me next Saturday? I promise, I'll leave you alone for the rest of the season...
Ohgoodlord if he does that then we're not going to know when the heck we're supposed to go out onto the dais to sing when they are over. We had a huge Mac Truck moment there on Saturday with the two at the end and not realizing for about 30 seconds they were over, until of course we realized they were over. O_o
Just a random thought, but it appeared to me that there were a lot of first time tourists on Saturday. With that I wonder how many of thought that any fancy dressed person must be a part of the ensemble and as such they think they can treat them like garbage. Which sadly is sort of the world we live in with the feeling of entitlement you see, where folks think it's ok to say or do something merely because they purchased a ticket.
I saw QueenE through our window when she walked by and MacLauren hollared at her to say hi. You looked absolutely stunning and may have been easily the greatest outfit I've ever seen at a Faire.
The bottom line is this weekend did see a lot of (colorful metaphor) at Faire, thankfully at the same time saw a lot of great folks as well.
Quote from: Tudor-Diva on October 14, 2008, 04:57:27 PM
Ohgoodlord if he does that then we're not going to know when the heck we're supposed to go out onto the dais to sing when they are over. We had a huge Mac Truck moment there on Saturday with the two at the end and not realizing for about 30 seconds they were over, until of course we realized they were over. O_o
Hell, we sat around in our shop for 5 minutes waiting for the last one LOL!
Just a little FYI when discussing the people who pay money to enter the gates and choose not to dress up.
We refer to them as patrons or visitors to our village. We simply never refer to them as 'mundanes'.
All cast members, vendors and participants to this faire work very hard to maintain the illusion of a historic village. Do we always succeed? No. But do we give it our best? You bet.
So would any person, of any rank, social standing or nationality refer to the local villagers as 'mundane'? Our King and Queen would refer to each person coming through that gate as 'Welcomed Guests and Visitors'.
The 'mundanes' are the reason many of us are in business. 80% of the people walking into the gates are so called 'mundane'. These are the 80% that the cast interact with, the 80% that the vendors sell too and 80% of the reason why the festival is open. The 80% are the reason the remaining 20% can play in fabulous outfits and earn a living.
Referring to them as 'mundane' simply sounds elitist and downright rude.
I, for one, will continue to refer to them simply as guests, valued customers and new friends.
Quote from: MadamNina on October 17, 2008, 11:35:31 PM
Just a little FYI when discussing the people who pay money to enter the gates and choose not to dress up.
...
I, for one, will continue to refer to them simply as guests, valued customers and new friends.
Excellent point and very enlightening. Sometimes we get so caught up in our own little world that we forget that its those regular off the street folk who keep TRF open.
Quote from: KiltedPrivateer on October 18, 2008, 09:16:07 PM
Quote from: MadamNina on October 17, 2008, 11:35:31 PM
Just a little FYI when discussing the people who pay money to enter the gates and choose not to dress up.
...
I, for one, will continue to refer to them simply as guests, valued customers and new friends.
Excellent point and very enlightening. Sometimes we get so caught up in our own little world that we forget that its those regular off the street folk who keep TRF open.
Of course one should not look down upon others, however calling someone a mundane is not derogatory at all to me
A mundane is simply a person who doesn't wear garb for whatever reason
I myself go occasion in mundanes and see no problem calling myself such. It's the same thing as saying you're going naked to faire... doesn't mean you're actually naked (generally at least).
Words are just words... it's the feeling behind them that makes them harmful or not. I could call someone a patron while sneering and then patron would be a bad word.
I will never moderate my language on the off chance that someone *might* get offended. If I did that then I would never be able to speak at all and Lord knows that ain't happening.
*I often get called "that rum guy"... doesn't mean I do nothing but drink rum... wait... yeah.. it does, but it's ok. I likes me rum.*
Quote from: MadamNina on October 17, 2008, 11:35:31 PM
Just a little FYI when discussing the people who pay money to enter the gates and choose not to dress up.
We refer to them as patrons or visitors to our village. We simply never refer to them as 'mundanes'.
...
Quote from: MadamNina on October 17, 2008, 11:35:31 PM
Referring to them as 'mundane' simply sounds elitist and downright rude.
I personally don't consider the term "mundane" elitist. And technically, since I don't yet have garb, I still qualify as a "mundane", even though I'm on this forum and into the renfaire scene.
If for some reason the consensus shifts that "mundane" is now considered derogatory, elitist, or ambiguous, we still need agreed neutral terms for someone not in garb and/or something less clumsy than "non-rennie" that means, well, non-rennie. In fact, the only issue I see with "mundane" is one of possible ambiguity.
Now prefacing "mundane" with a profanity...
that would be elitist.
I've just found over the years that the more and more I've heard 'mundane' being said, it is said with a HIGHLY derogatory tone. So when I see it typed, especially as was stated previously in this forum towards those that would dare to bother someone wearing a costume, I take high offense to it.
Quote from: MadamNina on October 19, 2008, 12:14:36 AM
I've just found over the years that the more and more I've heard 'mundane' being said, it is said with a HIGHLY derogatory tone. So when I see it typed, especially as was stated previously in this forum towards those that would dare to bother someone wearing a costume, I take high offense to it.
I'm curious, what would you suggest as a non-derogatory, unambiguous replacement?
Also, do you think we need a separate term for relatively new rennies that just haven't acquired garb yet, versus those that are happy as tourists wearing 21CSC (21st century street clothes)?
We're all patrons of the faire I don't think I've used the term mundane in a derogatory tone just as short hand for someone not in grab just as playtron is one not only in grab but also playing with cast, maundanes and other playtrons.
I heard someone on the radio say you don't give offensive someone takes offensive. One has to work at giving offensive but taking offensive is easy. just my 2p
All a matter of perspective. If I'm not wearing garb to faire, I say that I'm wearing my mundanes or civies, you know? Never been used as an insult, as it's something that I would call myself at times. My 'mundane' life, or talk about someone's 'mundane' job, referring to outside of faire.
If i'm not in garb at faire I say I'm nekkid....
But yah. "Dane" has never been anymore derogatory than most other tag titles. It's kinda like when parents go "Ugh... Children"... or when you women folk go "UGH, MEN!" etc etc... It's all in how you use it, and at faire, mundanes are kinda like children in soem of the things they do... it makes perfect sense to them, but we look at them like they are crazy!
But remember, we men think all you women are the sun and that you are ALWAYS right, in every single circumstance and instance... we just sometimes forget is all.
I have used "mundane" in a derogatory fashion, but only when speaking about my brother. I have been trying to get him to attend in garb for years but he refuses. I almost have his wife convinced to try garb but she won't unless he does. It is embarrassing to be seen with him. Just call it sibling rivalry.
Otherwise "mundane" is just a title to describe other people who glory in the magnificence of Faire but haven't gone all the way.
Quote from: Lord Duelist on October 19, 2008, 01:08:21 AM
Quote from: MadamNina on October 19, 2008, 12:14:36 AM
I've just found over the years that the more and more I've heard 'mundane' being said, it is said with a HIGHLY derogatory tone. So when I see it typed, especially as was stated previously in this forum towards those that would dare to bother someone wearing a costume, I take high offense to it.
I'm curious, what would you suggest as a non-derogatory, unambiguous replacement?
I'm with Madam Nina. Call them Patrons.
Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1) - Cite This Source - Share This
pa·tron /?pe?tr?n/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[pey-truhn] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun 1. a person who is a customer, client, or
paying guest, esp. a regular one, of a store, hotel, or the like.
2. a person who supports with money, gifts, efforts, or endorsement an artist, writer, museum, cause, charity, institution, special event, or the like: a patron of the arts; patrons of the annual Democratic dance
So, okay, out of curiousity - what do you refer to patrons who *do* dress up? I.e., what's the opposite of "mundane" within the patron arena?
:)
Quote from: princess farcical on October 20, 2008, 09:04:39 AM
So, okay, out of curiousity - what do you refer to patrons who *do* dress up? I.e., what's the opposite of "mundane" within the patron arena?
:)
Playtron :)
Quote from: HollyAtFairyEffects on October 20, 2008, 09:06:18 AM
Quote from: princess farcical on October 20, 2008, 09:04:39 AM
So, okay, out of curiousity - what do you refer to patrons who *do* dress up? I.e., what's the opposite of "mundane" within the patron arena?
:)
Playtron :)
Well, see, but you're a participant - if you'll beg my pardon for saying so, *you* calling them playtrons is kind of an "us vs. them" thing. :) I'm really interested in knowing what the non-participants label those people that you refer to as playtrons.
I've heard participants get down right pissy if someone makes the faux pas of calling themselves a Rennie without having had a full season of work experience at the faire. Hell, fights almost ensued!
A few of the participants that I've met do have a clear dividing line between Rennie and Playtron. When you stop and think about it, playtrons are as much a part of the show, and the feel of faire as those who are paid to do it! Rennie to me means Ren Faire Enthusiast- one who delights in the magic that is faire. Even before I was a participant, in my heart, I have always been a Rennie.
I've been going to the faire since the mid 90s as a 'mundane', and I've never seen the label used in a negative light.
I always understood the terms as such:
Patron = any non-cast or non-worker at faire... i.e. someone who comes in thru the front gate.
Rennie = patron, worker, mundane, dressed up, doesn't matter. it's someone who comes to fair almost every weekend and spends the whole weekend whether inside or outside the fair. just being near ren faires is thier joy in life.
Mundane = non-dressed up person who comes to fair. could be a rennie or not. can't be a cast person or fair worker.
Participant = opposite of patron.
now. maybe that's too formulatic and defined, but i was a math major :)
p.s. i was never aware that mundane was derogatory. but really, when did rennies get so PC?
Has anyone gotten a copy of the participant checklist of things to look for? It's like a scavenger hunt! It has things like "How many Jack Sparrows have you seen?" LOL! Too many!
Anthropologically speaking, things tend to get derogatory when we "other." When we refer to people as "mundanes," we're "othering" them - looking at them as separate and distinct. It's much easier, then, to deride someone "other" than our selves/group; they're different. It doesn't matter what term we use, though - it's kind of *all* derisive when it's "us vs. them."
I think MadamNina made a good point - after all, "Rennies" and "Playtrons" pay to get in, same as "Mundanes." I "participate," but I "patron"ize the vendors, same as everyone else. I dunno - I'm the last person to consider anyone I don't know personally as my "extended family," but I don't get all of the stratifying. It seems kind of clique-ish (in person *and* over the internet). We're all drawn to the same place for *generally* similar reasons, right?
Just my two cents. :)
I hope opening weekend being so beautiful is an omen for closing weekend to be beautiful as well. ;D
Satellite Photo (http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=30.257829,-95.835763&z=15&t=h&hl=en)
Honestly I usually call mundanes cones or cows myself! LOL! Cones because they stand in the way, cows because they're fun to heard! But hey what would we do with out them? We we're all faire mundanes at some point or another! I know my first year I came in a crappy store bought costume. By next year I had made myself my first set of wrap pants!
getting philosophical:
i think stereotypes and genres are extremely helpful from a distance. without them, we can't know how to interact with the world. there are certain ways we should act in certain settings. in order to determine these settings, we must make assumptions bout our surroundings. so placing borders and boundaries btwn environments is helpful and necessary as human beings interacting in a unique and everchanging world. that is the reality of life.
HOWEVER,
when up close, nothing and NOONE fits into a box or stereotype or genre. everything is unique just as everyone is unique. so when u get to know someone or something intimately, u realize that all ur stereotypes were off. when at a distance, u can summarize. but when close, u must pay attention to the details.
ok.... so that's my defense for definitions and definite terminology. however vaguely that fits in. but without definition, there is chaos.
i do agree princess f that u must not go to far in ur definitions by placing others outside of ur own circle and erecting a huge fence for them to cross. but realizing that they are not the exact same as u, just states the obvious.
Quote from: Tudor-Diva on October 14, 2008, 04:57:27 PM
Quote from: blue66669 on October 13, 2008, 03:42:50 PM
Quote from: PyroMaster on October 13, 2008, 03:31:38 PM
Quote from: blue66669 on October 13, 2008, 02:57:37 PM
Hey PyroMaster, what was up with us getting shorted that last *BANG* at closing cannon???
ONLY TWO NOW?????
Oh. Um. You noticed that, then? ... Yes, we are doing 2 booms now. 2 are as good as 3, right? And besides, these are LOUD booms! We set off a chariot alarm for the first time in years on Sunday :o
Think you could squeeze off 3 good booms for me next Saturday? I promise, I'll leave you alone for the rest of the season...
Ohgoodlord if he does that then we're not going to know when the heck we're supposed to go out onto the dais to sing when they are over. We had a huge Mac Truck moment there on Saturday with the two at the end and not realizing for about 30 seconds they were over, until of course we realized they were over. O_o
And with that firmly in mind, we ended up with 2 booms this weekend too. It was decided that changing things would just add unnecessary confusion to the process.
- Mark
Quote from: PyroMaster on October 20, 2008, 12:23:42 PM
Quote from: Tudor-Diva on October 14, 2008, 04:57:27 PM
Quote from: blue66669 on October 13, 2008, 03:42:50 PM
Quote from: PyroMaster on October 13, 2008, 03:31:38 PM
Quote from: blue66669 on October 13, 2008, 02:57:37 PM
Hey PyroMaster, what was up with us getting shorted that last *BANG* at closing cannon???
ONLY TWO NOW?????
Oh. Um. You noticed that, then? ... Yes, we are doing 2 booms now. 2 are as good as 3, right? And besides, these are LOUD booms! We set off a chariot alarm for the first time in years on Sunday :o
Think you could squeeze off 3 good booms for me next Saturday? I promise, I'll leave you alone for the rest of the season...
Ohgoodlord if he does that then we're not going to know when the heck we're supposed to go out onto the dais to sing when they are over. We had a huge Mac Truck moment there on Saturday with the two at the end and not realizing for about 30 seconds they were over, until of course we realized they were over. O_o
And with that firmly in mind, we ended up with 2 booms this weekend too. It was decided that changing things would just add unnecessary confusion to the process.
- Mark
Mark,
Someone was asking what the symbol was that lit up in the middle of the arena?
You know, we can go 'round and 'round about what is offensive and what is not... But Nina brings up a valid point. In fact, I was a little surprised when I read her post, because I wondered how the heck she somehow got inside my head and plucked the exact thoughts that had been bouncing around. I will admit, I was also a bit taken aback and offended by QEII's original post on this thread (not to open up another argument, just using the example).
As the cast seems to be a bit under-represented on this forum (after all, we are renfolk, too!), I'd like to offer a little bit of insight into how WE view some of the issues that have been known to come up. This isn't a scolding, or a "schooling", just a peek into another point of view that may not have occurred to some...
We are completely aware that the term "mundanes" is common vernacular among renfair enthusiasts, usually used by those in garb to refer to those who aren't. And I will concede that much of the time when it is used, it is for exactly this purpose, with no negative intention attached. After all, one definition of the word is "of this world", or "secular". But keep in mind, the other common meaning is "ordinary, commonplace, boring"; who wants to be referred to as ordinary and boring? And unfortunately, I have to agree with Nina that in recent years, I have seen the term's usage occasionally take on a more negative tone, ranging from slightly superior and condescending to terribly disdainful and derisive. These ungarbed patrons are really our primary reason for being out there; devaluing them devalues us and our efforts... and God, we work SO hard out there. Is it so very hard to understand, when you step away from feeling defensive and try to see from OUR point of view, how it might raise our hackles a little bit when we hear this tone taken towards the people who give SO much back to us for our efforts?
Generally, we refer to everyone who walks through the front gate as "patrons". This term is only used with a negative connotation when they are, in some way or another, misbehaving. To make distinctions, we commonly refer to garbed patrons as "playtrons" or "pet patrons". I will admit, I have heard the term "playtron" used negatively (and have probably done so myself) on rare occasion; in these cases it is invariably in response to either outright misbehavior or inconsideration, or in response to a snotty, disrespectful, or superior attitude. When these factors are missing, the term is most DEFINITELY a positive one. Generally, we love our playtrons, as they tend to add to the atmosphere and the illusion, and therefore enhance the experience for other patrons around them.
As performers, we tend to focus our efforts towards patrons in civvies and in costumes (as opposed to garb). They tend to be the most responsive, the most entertainable, and the ones most likely to really appreciate our efforts. I, personally, do not approach patrons in garb, and only interact with them when they approach me. This is not because of any negative feeling; it is simply because (A) garbed patrons often have their own agenda, and simply don't need my help to buy into the fantasy, and (B) I'm paid to entertain patrons, not vendors or artisans, and frankly sometimes it's hard to tell who is who.
As far as the question of what word we use to refer to "normal" clothes... I believe the most common one is "civvies". It just doesn't have the same connotations as "mundane".
I'm not going to go shaking my scolding finger at anyone, nor am I going to presume to tell anyone what words they should use for which people. But I figured it couldn't hurt to put the info out there, to help people to understand why we feel the way we do about it.
Quotewhen up close, nothing and NOONE fits into a box or stereotype or genre. everything is unique just as everyone is unique. so when u get to know someone or something intimately, u realize that all ur stereotypes were off. when at a distance, u can summarize. but when close, u must pay attention to the details.
How many people, though, actually get past those initial assumptions and stereotypes? How many people just continue to assume that their first analysis was the correct one?
Even when one does get past the initial characterization it will, more than likely, continue to color any future interactions.
QuoteI've never heard the opinion that the word "mundane" was at all derogatory. I've only ever heard it used as a description of the normal world, i.e. my mundane job, my mundane clothes, my mundane life, and then those that enter fair still in their real life are mundanes by default. But I guess that's just me.
Mundane can also mean common; ordinary; banal; unimaginative, none of which seem to be remotely positive attributes.
I've used the term in the past but I am making strives to break myself of it. Kind of like my asking people to find a nicer term to replace garb Nazi. Most people mean no harm in using such terms, but out of context or to someone who doesn't understand, it may come across as patronizing or insensitive.
A more neutral term I heard for one's "real life" is "my life in sooth." It's also useful because it allows one to speak of one's day to day, without breaking character.
Quote from: princess farcical on October 20, 2008, 10:54:49 AM
Anthropologically speaking, things tend to get derogatory when we "other." When we refer to people as "mundanes," we're "othering" them - looking at them as separate and distinct. It's much easier, then, to deride someone "other" than our selves/group; they're different. It doesn't matter what term we use, though - it's kind of *all* derisive when it's "us vs. them."
I think MadamNina made a good point - after all, "Rennies" and "Playtrons" pay to get in, same as "Mundanes." I "participate," but I "patron"ize the vendors, same as everyone else. I dunno - I'm the last person to consider anyone I don't know personally as my "extended family," but I don't get all of the stratifying. It seems kind of clique-ish (in person *and* over the internet). We're all drawn to the same place for *generally* similar reasons, right?
Just my two cents. :)
werd. 8)
When did this conversation go from "what you observed on Opening Day" to "what group are we tossing ourselves into"? This conversation is silly, as it doesn't matter what we're called. We all love faire, we all spend our time and hard earned money, as well as months of effort just gearing up for "the Big Show". As for not approaching "playtrons", you may as well say that you don't interact with a certain race of people because they don't respond to you. Or hell, it's like not giving good service to teenagers in a restaurant because you think that most of the filthy little buggers don't tip worth a damn. Does that make any sense? Of course not. And what would our agenda be anyways??? We just came to the faire, like EVERYONE ELSE, to enjoy the magic. That INCLUDES cast interactions. Danes are just playtrons that haven't caught the bug yet, plain and simple. And maybe our dearest performance company wouldn't mind playing with US sometime as well. I know I would appreciate it!
So, any observations from SECOND weekend???
Just an observation. From everyone's posts here, I guess I'm not a true rennie. I enjoy faire and camping. I go to escape from all the crap of everyday life. To relax, enjoy some live music, meet new people, etc. I've been around people that use the term "mundane". Most of the time they are using it in a derogatory way. Little do you realize that you are discouraging people that really enjoy faire, to feel like they do not belong. It's kind of like elitism of the Rennie World! ;) Can't we all just get along? :)
FYI - I have removed all my comments from this thread. I never meant to be offensive to people. I only meant to share my "Opening day observations" as this thread is titled. Not all my observations were taken in context or were seen for what they were, observations and not meant as judgemental.
Quote from: blue66669 on October 20, 2008, 01:37:48 PM
We just came to the faire, like EVERYONE ELSE, to enjoy the magic. That INCLUDES cast interactions. Danes are just playtrons that haven't caught the bug yet, plain and simple. And maybe our dearest performance company wouldn't mind playing with US sometime as well. I know I would appreciate it!
So, any observations from SECOND weekend???
Oh dear. Either you took the worst possible interpretation of that, or I didn't express myself clearly. I'm MORE that happy to play, at any time, with any patron who wants to play with me. And when a patron makes eye contact, with an open expression, I consider that an approach, and never intentionally rebuff just because a patron is garbed. All I was trying to convey is that when I am scanning a crowd, targeting my next "mark", I invariably choose a person/group who is either in civvies, or in an obviously patron costume. This is the easiest and quickest way to make sure I'm actually approaching a patron, and not someone who is working. I certainly didn't intend to imply that I would hide behind a tree if I saw you coming!
As far as observations from THIS weekend... Crowds were great, very receptive and playful, and the weather couldn't have been better. Did anyone see the noon proclamation on Sunday and get a glimpse of the little girl who won the Scavenger Hunt??? They just don't come any cuter. Oh, and I got TAGGED.
I had a nice litte titotat with one of the French cast opening weekend. She started it by dropping her mug and asking oh were oh were is my mug. Sad to say I'm really bad with names so can't remember the character name she introduced herself with. We had fun playing for the patrons about the ole allance and the best why to annoy King Henry. Also about her Queen who was sister to my Queen and both sisters to Henry. First time in a number of years I've had a chance to play with a cast member at TRF.
We'll coming back this weekend for all Hallow Eve and I plan on watching out for her and asking how Queen Mary is and how the ole allance is holding up in France.
Quote from: Morrigan on October 20, 2008, 01:54:40 PM
Oh dear. Either you took the worst possible interpretation of that, or I didn't express myself clearly. I'm MORE that happy to play, at any time, with any patron who wants to play with me. And when a patron makes eye contact, with an open expression, I consider that an approach, and never intentionally rebuff just because a patron is garbed. All I was trying to convey is that when I am scanning a crowd, targeting my next "mark", I invariably choose a person/group who is either in civvies, or in an obviously patron costume. This is the easiest and quickest way to make sure I'm actually approaching a patron, and not someone who is working. I certainly didn't intend to imply that I would hide behind a tree if I saw you coming!
As far as observations from THIS weekend... Crowds were great, very receptive and playful, and the weather couldn't have been better. Did anyone see the noon proclamation on Sunday and get a glimpse of the little girl who won the Scavenger Hunt??? They just don't come any cuter. Oh, and I got TAGGED.
Oh darling dearest- I guess I'm just a little off because I'm not one for "pigeonholing", and that is what this thread has turned into. NO thanks. I'd love to share a moment with you in the lanes sometime, that is, if the master lets me out of my hole :P
Hi, my name is Blue, and I'm a Ren-aholic...
Quote from: Tudor-Diva on October 14, 2008, 12:54:54 PM
And if there is a member of the performance company behaving innapropriately, that needs to be known too.
Man, you are just not gonna let us have ANY fun, are you?
Or do you wish to be informed so you can join in?
Hello, I'm Charlie and I too am a Ren-aholic
Quote from: Mad Queen Juana on November 04, 2008, 04:45:57 PM
Quote from: Tudor-Diva on October 14, 2008, 12:54:54 PM
And if there is a member of the performance company behaving innapropriately, that needs to be known too.
Man, you are just not gonna let us have ANY fun, are you?
Or do you wish to be informed so you can join in?
I'll decide when I see it thankyouverymuch! *smoochies*
Just thought I'd add a note. First weekend I got to play for a short moment with a cast member in the french quarter. One of the french ladies hollered at me as I passed "ANGUS, WHERE ARE YOU GOING ANGUS...". I was of course dressed in my highland garb. It was a pleasant and fun exchange.
Pirate weekend we had the opportunity to be visited by the King as we sat around one of trees between the sea devil and the arena. Ole Broadsides was there with us as well. The King was hilarious.
I kinda wish there were more interaction between cast and playtrons, (the lack of probably due mostly to my own avoidance). I'm not as quick witted as many of the cast. Most of that wit I'm sure just comes from the experience of playing the characters. And I can't do an accent worth a darn. But its fun none the less.
All in all it was a great time.
Quote from: KiltedPrivateer on November 07, 2008, 11:48:17 AM
Just thought I'd add a note. First weekend I got to play for a short moment with a cast member in the french quarter. One of the french ladies hollered at me as I passed "ANGUS, WHERE ARE YOU GOING ANGUS...". I was of course dressed in my highland garb. It was a pleasant and fun exchange.
Pirate weekend we had the opportunity to be visited by the King as we sat around one of trees between the sea devil and the arena. Ole Broadsides was there with us as well. The King was hilarious.
I kinda wish there were more interaction between cast and playtrons, (the lack of probably due mostly to my own avoidance). I'm not as quick witted as many of the cast. Most of that wit I'm sure just comes from the experience of playing the characters. And I can't do an accent worth a darn. But its fun none the less.
All in all it was a great time.
This is why I am happy my character does not speak. I have spoken to the King before and he does have a great personality. I love interacting with cast! Papa Elf is REALLY GOOD at adlibbing with other characters. As was a French character with a big fan (I think he name is Voice Box) as he does not speak either, but he is great at comign up with exchanges simply by using sign language... and the general audience thoroughly enjoys such shows, especially if you can in some way involve them in your improv skit.
I can't wait till Thanksgiving weekend!!!