Reading along today I thought of something that happened around me on Labor Day weekend.
To put it into a situation for you - I was standing outside of Potomic Leather (MDRF) and a young man and lady in mundane clothing were sitting on the steps stuffing their faces. A curvy lady in full leather (girl must have spent a fortune at that store!) walked past them and entered. The young man snickered loudly and pointed it out to the girl at his side. I had half a mind to walk over to him, bend over and put my ample bosom in his face and carefully remind him that he is in OUR world and a woman comfortable enough in her own skin should be applauded and not mocked. Other thoughts came through my head (evil, evil thoughts) but I think what bugged me most was that he came to the Fest - what was he really expecting to see?
Now, I'm a curvy girl myself but I keep most of myself tucked and cinched in, I just happen to bubble out at the top :p I'm even proud to say that my usual brown skirt is so big on me that I can pull it up without zipping (lost 30 pounds this year, still going). Perhaps in the real world showing off so much skin would be unacceptable, but it's the faire! Am I wrong for wanting to throttle the little brat? How would you handle that situation? BTW in the end before I could walk over and say something he and his girl walked off...I didn't want to play mommy on my day off.
I would have flirted with her in front of him, going so far as pressing my cleavage against hers to exchange glitter - then look over at him and turn my nose up. Actions speak louder than words.
It is unfortunate that manners are in such short supply these days. A fun way to handle said brat would be to make a scene of it and challenge him for not showing a lady the proper respect and ask his companion if she approves of his actions. If done right you should have a brat that turns red with embarsament. That may give him pause the next time.
I always try to keep in mind that without mundanes there would be no faire.
That said ... water off a ducks weed puller butt. Seriously, I hear so much of that stuff I think I am mostly immune to it ... especially from the dane lassies and ALL the constant questions about the kilt. I am sure you have all heard them before.
Thank goodness I am blessed with a quick wit and 3 beer buzz that keeps the danes on their toes ... if they dish it out they better be prepared to take it.
I have a picture of Scotsman's quick wit that I may just have to show...:-) Love ya, man!!
Chances are that any reaction to the rudeness of a "Dane" will go unoticed anyway by said "Dane", simply because someone like that lacks the basic intellect to even realize that they are in a battle of wits, much less the ammo to respond. Choose polite civility...it drives the boorish crazy every time!!
Amras "When Coarseness Becomes a Substitute For Wit, You've Already Lost" Elfwine
I have to second m/lady 'Cleavage and agree that it's a wonderful wonderful thing to be comfortable inn your own skin, no matter the size thereof. Not only does beauty come in all shapes and sizes, it resides mainly in the largest sex organ of all, the brain. Those that snicker need look inward at thier own lack of beauty.
HUZZAH to the above! (the stinking Brat)
By the title of this thread I thought it was going to be about Rennies mocking mundanes, not the other way around... But given that it is the other way around, I'd say do nothing and know that you are the bigger person. He couldn't hold inside himself his opinions of others that happen to be hurtful and rude, you on the other hand were fully in charge of your words and your emotions and were able to let a very obnoxious and rude man just live with himself as is!
I personally feel sorry for others who aren't comfortable with their own scantly clad/nakedness or that of others. HE was probably feeling out of place and needed to make himself look "cool" infront of his lady friend. If I had been said "lady friend", believe me when I said I'd have put him in his place...
Quote from: Amras Elfwine on October 28, 2008, 11:57:28 AM
I have a picture of Scotsman's quick wit that I may just have to show...:-)
I have the eye bleach ready ;D
Since it's unlikely that Sir Clueless will be back, the temptation would be there.
But, keep in mind that tickets and sales pay for our playpen. So, unles you have to physically defend yourself, ignore. Trying to educate would most likely be wasted.
Now, on the counter topic of rennies mocking mundanes. That a GIANT no-no. Repeat the mantra "Those who buy tickets pay for our play."
Something that came to my mind -- first thing, actually.
People not familiar with faire think that everyone who is in garb is an employee of the faire. They don't know any different. Thus, if you insult him/her, how soon will the reputation spread to his/her other friends that the workers are snotty, obnoxious, etc. ? Just what a faire needs -- bad publicity, and not even due to its own employees.
So I would say take the high road. If the faire management get enough complaints over their "workers" being rude to the patrons, then might there come a day when garbing is restricted to cast and registered volunteers. *shudder*
The sad thing is that the people that go to fair look at us who dress up for fair like they are in a zoo that the animals are allowed to walk around at.
I have turned the tables on those who choose to mock in my ear shot..
Why get all put out of shape for a idot who was just there for the boobs
Quote from: Lady Renee Buchanan on October 28, 2008, 06:00:24 PM
Something that came to my mind -- first thing, actually.
People not familiar with faire think that everyone who is in garb is an employee of the faire. They don't know any different. Thus, if you insult him/her, how soon will the reputation spread to his/her other friends that the workers are snotty, obnoxious, etc. ? Just what a faire needs -- bad publicity, and not even due to its own employees.
So I would say take the high road. If the faire management get enough complaints over their "workers" being rude to the patrons, then might there come a day when garbing is restricted to cast and registered volunteers. *shudder*
Theres a lot of truth in that, last year for example, there was a patron at the pub in garb similar to someone on cast. (or close enough to a mundane patron's point of view) Anyhow, the patron in garb likely had more then enough to drink and was very obnoxious and when someone reported it, the cast member was the one who was blamed. There was alot of bad drama over that.
That being said, don't let them hold you hostage thinking there's more to lose then correcting bad manors. If you see someone being rude, or hurtful, that ruins everyones fun, and hurts the feelings of the target if they are in earshot. You don't have to call attention to everyone in the area that the lout is a jerk, you can go over to him privately and tell him that what he's saying is rude and inappropriate.
I'm willing to bet that he didn't know anyone else was paying attention and once he realizes that others are able to hear him, that will be enough of a private embarrassment that he will knock it off. And if he doesn't, or he pushes the case, just walk away. It's not worth making a scene.
I agree with taking the high road. I've never been sorry for having done that. Ever. Save up the arch comments that you felt like saying (or actions you felt like taking) to tell your renfriends who understand them in the first place. There are certainly times that clever repartee is appropriate when faced with something like this, but in general, if they're that clueless, they'll remain so.
At fair, I do take the high road for many of the reasons given, and because I'm an employee of a vendor.
As a private citizen out in public, I use extremely loud four letter words. Without the restraints of my position at fair, I feel that the first person to display rudeness doesn't deserve any courtesy at all. You should see me in a movie theater when there's a group of loud mouth teenagers, I've cussed the paint off the walls. Generally, the more you're outnumbered, the more you need to appear to be a psychotic on the verge of murder. It's crude, but effective. One time about half the audience in a theater clapped after I silenced the offenders. Rude patrons don't know what they're missing out on. ;D
I personally would have to consider approaching the offender to see if he might start to interact. I might even have to ask why he is there, if he finds the atmosphere so offensive and point out that he paid to be there, so he might as well try to enjoy it. Most of us are so comfortable and at ease with each other, that we don't even see what we must look like to others, who don't participate. I can understand how they could view our world as totally alien, but if we took the time and had the patience to try to draw them into it, they might even become converts. The first time I went to a ren faire, I must admit that, eventhough I kept my mouth shut, there were moments that "gave me pause". Of course, I was a little envious of the people that had the self-confidence to participate. Now, I have been at this for years, and I love being one of the "weirdos". And I feel so very fortunate to have gained my ren family. The poor little "danes" should be so lucky. Have patience with them.
Quote from: Synikul on October 28, 2008, 08:06:30 PM
Generally, the more you're outnumbered, the more you need to appear to be a psychotic on the verge of murder. It's crude, but effective.
You sound like my husband. *LOL* Perhaps for next year I'll have to think of some witty (if not embarassing) lines should I encounter such a situation (which I'm sure I will). As I mentioned I've been working hard to lose alot of weight, and I promised myself I was going to buy something a bit more "showy" cause I deserved it. I'm still gonna be a curvy girl - can't reshape all of what God gave me! and I guess I just want to brace myself for shallow minded individuals. While I can apprecaite and wholly understand the ideal of taking the higher ground, I think rude people should be sometimes reminded their words/actions sometimes do have repercussions. Not all jokes are harmless.
Quote from: The Frog Lady on October 29, 2008, 12:56:46 PM
You sound like my husband. *LOL* Perhaps for next year I'll have to think of some witty (if not embarassing) lines should I encounter such a situation (which I'm sure I will). As I mentioned I've been working hard to lose alot of weight, and I promised myself I was going to buy something a bit more "showy" cause I deserved it. I'm still gonna be a curvy girl - can't reshape all of what God gave me! and I guess I just want to brace myself for shallow minded individuals. While I can apprecaite and wholly understand the ideal of taking the higher ground, I think rude people should be sometimes reminded their words/actions sometimes do have repercussions. Not all jokes are harmless.
Remeber for every shallow minded brat there are ten gentlemen that quietly appreciate ladies. Maybe good gentlemen like myself need to step up and voice the compliments we tend to keep to ourselves.
This past season while visiting MIRF I was walking with friends and passing through a crowded spot near a pub we came upon a group of young men. I was first in our group to pass through. I smiled and received a smile back and they stepped aside making a way for us to pass . What I didn't realize was that as I passed one of the "gentlemen" made an attempt to grab my bottom. Now I wear hoops so my bottom is a bit difficult to get to. I just thought it was an innocent jostling of the crowd that I felt. Well, my girlfriends behind saw the whole thing and raised all kinds of hell with them. It was quite a scene. The men of course played the innocent card. While it's not my first choice to go wild on someone like that( I'd have probably given him whatfor more privatly) I think a quiet scathing remark would have fallen on closed ears. In that situation I think he deserved to be outed, and loudly. He went to far and other ladies in the area needed to be warned to watch out for him and his friends.
Just a thought here, but getting into a battle just get's everyone fired up and nobody ends up feeling good about the thing. Perhaps quiet words to the offender letting him know you heard what he said and thought it unkind would wake him up. Maybe not. Always worth a try. Perhaps also making a point of passing along a kind word to the target of his comment. A complement might balance out the unkindness.
I know the temptation to jump down the throat of people can be overwhelming, especially in that initial surge of irritation, but it's generally counter-productive. 'Wow, faire people don't only wear stupid outfits, they're also yelly and bitchy too. What jerks.' is not the memory we want them to go home with, right? Besides, quite often that sort of thing is sparked by their own uncertainty -- they're out of their element and don't know quite what to think about us so they mock. Usually I just let it slide but there are a couple of times I've idled over to the snickerer and co. and engaged them in conversation where I am genuinely curious about what they think and why, maybe point out some particularly nice details about the outfit they might not have noticed or maybe just chat about garb in general, see what they'd get if they could have any one item of clothing for free, etc. It usually gets them thinking about garb and the people in it in a different way -- and it also subtly lets them know that their initial reaction was indeed noticed by other people so if they're going to keep being paychecks, they want to be much more careful about it in the future. ;)
By the way, that's in reference to cases like the snickerer in the first post. In the case of grabbers as mentioned above, fry them. BUT NOT with a long-winded rant. That gives them time to gather their (small) wits and react, whether it's acting indifferent or just turning and walking away. The best way I've found to deal with grabbers is to make solid eye contact and announce, 'If it isn't yours, YOU DON'T TOUCH IT' in a level but very clear, carrying voice. Then walk away. If they act like they're shrugging it off, ignore it. They heard you -- and they know everyone around them heard it too and knows they were paychecks. That'll stick with them much better than a tirade, shrill, fluent, or otherwise. :)
i usually just ignore there presence when they say stupid stuff about people in garb..
however.. them little bastard kids with those wooden weapons.. thats a whole nother ball park.. just cause i have leather armour on does not mean, hey come hit me.. then parents getting mad at me when i yell at them.. or after that there parents watch them hit or attempt to hit me again, wooden weapon is now in my possession with the treat of breaking it. i have no resevations on telling those kids and parents what i think. though i did get security called on me once when after the 3rd time of some kid wacking me when not looking in the back of the claf (no armor there) i took the weapon and threatened the dad that if he even swong that thing again within 10 feet of me it was going up his arse and getting broken off.
I would have found somehow to demonstrate that I am regimental under the kilt, there usually is no come back for that. I know I know I am supposed to take the high road but hey sometimes I just have to take a short cut on the low one.
I was at TRF on Saturday the 1st,Pirate Weekend and I throughly enjoyed myself all day ,that is until late in the afternoon. That is the length of a day at fair,always seems to get to me and I tend to lean on my walking staff more than normal. Reaper and myself were trudging along and we passed two couples,cunningly garbed as REDNECKS, when one of he men reached out and staff! I turned to him and requested ,very nicely,that he let my property go. His answer was to state "The day is almost done and you need to give this stick to me ,you don't need it anymore!" I stopped about twenty feet away so I turned to this gentleman and asked,in my best Scot accent "Well sir why do ye need it?" "I just want it. You need to give it to me." Was his only answer. Now I am a tolerant man and used to people admiring and/or offering to BUY my staff, but this DRUNK was expecting me to GIVE it to him!! So I did. Holding it up so the stones set in the ball at the crown sparkled in the sunlight I asked "Well Sir, where would ye like it and which end would ye like first,the Staff or the Ball?" "I want 'em both" he answered "Give it!" With as smooth a smile as I could muster I addressed his gigling cohorts and wiggled my eyebrows "BOTH,He says!! He MUST be a Hell of a man if he can take the whole length!!" His friends burst into laughter and the throughly redfaced man sat down!! Then I rejoined Reaper,who had a big smile on his face,and we continued destination!!!
Quote from: Messyn McCleavage on October 28, 2008, 09:59:55 AM
I would have flirted with her in front of him, going so far as pressing my cleavage against hers to exchange glitter - then look over at him and turn my nose up. Actions speak louder than words.
ditto this!
or at least said really loud how hot she was.
When you're in costume, keep in mind that other customers probably assume that you are a participant. So please remember that the event generally likes repeat business.
So it's best to attempt to exit a problem situation by keeping in character assuming that the event might want the offender as a returning customer. The second is to get event security involved. In the latter case, the offender will likely be removed and invited not to return. But the "and don't come back" is a decision that should be left to the event.
Years ago, if a fellow guild member addressed you as "Cousin" while interacting with a customer, that indicated that they were in a problem situation and wanted you to help. This was usually done by reminding the fellow guild member that they needed to be at "X" and walk away with them. This convention seems to have fallen out of use, though.
As an aside, I generally won't be in costume at other than my home events. This is generally because I'm unfamiliar with the layout of the event and would have difficulty assisting other customers when they ask me such things as the location of the nearest privies nor do I know if the scooter I use for Sparky/Lightning can maneuver the site. I've also been known to start interacting with folks I know from other events but who may not recognize me in "civies". This can be fun especially if you come up behind someone and start talking. They'll know the voice, but keep looking for the face. (I used to shave the beard off between events. These days I generally have it much shorter than for an event.)