I purchased about a yard of orange/fuschia embroidered silk off of ebay, the tags on it say it was originally $211 a yard so I want to plan an idea out carefully before I go cutting into it. It's a bit loud for most designs, so I was thinking maybe a courtesan bodice. I found a matching dupioni at Joann's that's almost the exact same shade of orange with the fuschia crossweave, was thinking that would be good for breeches. Does anyone have any ideas for an over skirt? Also, I really like the open shoulder chemises, but I have no idea how to go about making one, if anyone has a pattern they can point me to it would be greatly appreciated. I don't need my costume until our faire here next Spring, so I have lots of time to plan. Pics of the fabric are below, any help with trims or patterns would be very helpful since I've never done this kind of garb before. Thanks :)
(http://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z257/bonnielorraine22/fabric027.jpg)
(http://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z257/bonnielorraine22/189861270_o.jpg)
I'd say it's a bit too loud for the 16th c but might work for a pseudo 18th c outfit. Can you image that as a pirate's waistcoat? :-)
Wish I had taken a picture: There was a noble gal at the Escondido Ren-faire who used orange on her dress.........with black.......it looked kind of Halloweenish....
If she's wearing it again come next year in the spring, I'll try to remember to get a picture of her.
You could pair it with a more muted color for some Elizabethan sleeves.
Orange is period, even though this shade is a little garish.
(http://sixtydegrees.josephlogue.com/natlgall/lucretia.gif)
Orange is definitely period, but the pattern is not...
Do you WANT it to be period? If not, it could be used for multiple awesome projects. Tell a bit about what you want, and I'll see what ideas pop into my head (or what reference pics I might have).
I was watching Dangerous Beauty this afternoon with my boyfriend and saw her first dress as a courtesan, an orange silk bodice and overskirt with gold trim and a see through chemise. I have no idea how accurate the costumes are from that movie, but most of the websites that I see making courtesan costumes seem to base their designs off of it. I'll try to get a screenshot from the movie later to post, I couldn't find one of that costume anywhere online. I'm not looking for complete historical accuracy, I know anything I make from that fabric will be loud, I'm just trying to stay away from obnoxious or over the top.
Quote from: Lorraine on November 10, 2008, 08:01:39 PM
I was watching Dangerous Beauty this afternoon with my boyfriend and saw her first dress as a courtesan, an orange silk bodice and overskirt with gold trim and a see through chemise. I have no idea how accurate the costumes are from that movie, but most of the websites that I see making courtesan costumes seem to base their designs off of it. I'll try to get a screenshot from the movie later to post, I couldn't find one of that costume anywhere online. I'm not looking for complete historical accuracy, I know anything I make from that fabric will be loud, I'm just trying to stay away from obnoxious or over the top.
The courtesan outfits are lovely but not accurate. If you look at the portraits of the time, the only difference between the courtesans and ladies was that the courtesans were to have yellow veil. :-) Now, the courtesans did have some interesting outfits but not quite like in the movie. One of the most interesting is currently in Patterns of Fashion 4 by Janet Arnold.
Yeah, I kind of figured they weren't accurate. Most of the information I've been able to find says they were indistinguishable from noble women, but I read somewhere that they would occasionally wear mens clothing (I'm guessing thats where the shorts came from in the movie). Our faire here isn't very accurate anyways, with men walking around in leather thongs and women baring just about everything, my costume would probably come off as tame.
Actually, the pants were very period. Ladies of all classes wore them beneath their dresses.
http://realmofvenus.renaissanceitaly.net/library/drawers.htm
Quote from: Lorraine on November 10, 2008, 09:20:33 PM
Yeah, I kind of figured they weren't accurate. Most of the information I've been able to find says they were indistinguishable from noble women, but I read somewhere that they would occasionally wear mens clothing (I'm guessing thats where the shorts came from in the movie). Our faire here isn't very accurate anyways, with men walking around in leather thongs and women baring just about everything, my costume would probably come off as tame.
I recently bought the book
"Private lives in Renaissance Venice", and it deals a bit with Venetian courtesans. It makes a sharp distinction between common brothel prostitutes and elevated courtesans, and it also tells a bit about the adaption of male garbs as a specific strategy.
The Italian word "cortigiana" means basically a court lady, or a lady of an elevated rank. And even temporary people had difficulties separating the courtesans from "honest women", as seen in this 1543 treaty from the Venetian Senate:
"There are now excessive numbers of prostitutes in this our city; they have put aside all modesty and shame, and go about openly in the streets and churches, and furthermore are so well dressed and adorned that on many occasions our noble and citizen women have been confused with them, the good with the bad, and not only by foreigners but also by those who live there, because there is no difference of dress".Legislations was passed, making it possible for courtesans to wear only
"cloths of Bergamo and Brescia, and these must be plain and have no pattern cut upon them", and they were prevented from wearing "gold, silver, or silk and jewels of any kind". These laws had little impact on the fashion, though... Which probably means the courtesans had supporters high up in the system, and that they were a necessary part of Venetian economy.
In 1598 people complained that courtesans had began to
"go out of the house often well covered in white veils of silk, a habit particular to young married ladies or nuns, noble as well as citizen". Page 185: "Or she might obfuscate her gender. Cross-dressing was one more weapon in the courtesan's arsenal of seduction, and some wore men's clothing - perhaps a coat or a shirt "
alla mascolina", or even breeches concealed beneath their skirts."
The fashion of adapting men's garbs into female fashion wasn't unique to Venice, and not unique to courtesans either. It seems to have been a general tendency in at least all of Italy, with women adapting hats, doublets and coats as a part of their attire. The officials and the church naturally didn't like this trend, but it didn't prevent it from becoming the leading fashion of the time (brilliant Eva has written an article about it, it might be on her page somewhere: http://web.comhem.se/~u31138198/main.html ). But Venetian courtesans seems to have used it in another way - they used singular masculine pieces of garbs
just because they were masculine, not fusing them into a female garb/fashion (as did elsewhere) - maybe with the exception of breeches, which they wore underneath their grand dresses.
This is indeed a parenthesis... Back to orange sparkle now!
I am a non sew-er person. After reading what you have written, here is what jumps out at me:
1. You really don't care about H/A.
2. Your faire isn't H/A.
My two cents: There probably won't be many, if any, people at your faire who really know what is and what isn't H/A, either in choice of material or what style you are wearing. I have found this to be true at so many of the faires we go to. 99% of the people who look at your garb will have one of 2 thoughts in their mind: "wow, that's pretty" or "I don't like that."
Now, your silk is so beautiful, my non-professional opinion is to make the bodice, make the orange overskirt with a split in the front, make some breeches for underneath (I'd choose the hot pink in the flowers),and you will look smashing. It's all about having fun, isn't it?
Thank you for all the wonderful research and ideas Ladies!! I like the orange overskirt and pink breeches part, I was originally going to do the reverse but the bodice matching the skirt would probably work better than the bodice matching the breeches. I'm still struggling with the chemise part, maybe because the thought of working with sheer silk still terrifies me. I really like the drawstring neck chemise with detached sleeves attached by trim but all of my chemise patterns have the top of the sleeve being part of the neckline and I'd need a pattern with separate sleeves, anyone know of a good one?
Bonnie, it's really hard to tell from the picture/sketches, but this Simplicity pattern might be what you're looking for:
http://www.simplicity.com/dv1_v4.cfm?design=3632
Quote from: Lorraine on November 09, 2008, 07:06:28 PM
I purchased about a yard of orange/fuschia embroidered silk off of ebay, the tags on it say it was originally $211 a yard so I want to plan an idea out carefully before I go cutting into it. It's a bit loud for most designs, so I was thinking maybe a courtesan bodice. I found a matching dupioni at Joann's that's almost the exact same shade of orange with the fuschia crossweave, was thinking that would be good for breeches.
Here is what I was thinking with the lovely embroidered silk as your bodice and then the shot dupioni as your skirtting
(http://bp0.blogger.com/_f3mHwdbzQ3Y/RYnm9D09FkI/AAAAAAAAAHs/8Vn7K53EpaQ/s1600-h/Dangerous+Beauty+36+copy.jpg)
I have a couple of pictures of Courtesans of the time
Check out this one, I think the bold pink is as good as your orange!
(http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1435/1414959463_dfce9e17e9.jpg?v=0)
Here is one of a lady with pants on, I think this is what you had in mind? Although a horrible rendering, I don't think the skirt and the bodice fabrics are a match eh?
(http://www.costumes.org/HISTORY/uafcollection/shoehist/Mvc-008f.jpg)
And another lovely lady of ....indifferent means!
(http://www.medici.org/graphics/DOMJune2.jpg)
This one claims it is a Courtesan with her client but her bodice is modest so I am not sure however she does have horns in her hair so perhaps??
(http://www.costumes.org/history/stibbert/144.jpg)
Here are a couple of dress diaries who seem to be doing what you want to do with the sleeves.
http://bauhausfrau.livejournal.com/tag/courtesan (http://bauhausfrau.livejournal.com/tag/courtesan)
This one as well is a lovely gown with the sleeves I think you want
http://killeri.net/prauda/puvutmuille.html (http://killeri.net/prauda/puvutmuille.html)
So do what you want to do! If it will make you happy and you are not trying out for the Faire! Make what you want!!
I hoped I helped you figure out being a Courtesan!
Good Luck
Cilean