RenaissanceFestival.com Forums

One of our most beloved forum members has asked the question, "Can at least one of the Friend of the Faire area be made nonsmoking?"  We believe that it is a reasonable request and thought that we would ask for comments.  So what do you all think about limiting smoking in the Friend of the Faire area?  We would appreciate any and all replies.

Berit

Never thought of it as a problem before. I don't smoke and am allergic to the stuff. But being in wide open areas there is sufficient air flow to keep the air fresh. I hate smoking, but hate restrictions more.

As an ex-smoker I would say...
No
It's an outdoor event, and anyone walking beside can be smoking and that would waft into the area regardless.
Personally if I were smoking still and bought my pass and then found that one of the areas I paid extra to be able to be in wouldn't let me smoke... I would ask for my money back.
A better solution is a posted sign reminding smokers to be courteous of nonsmokers and stay upwind in any FoF area when smoking.
Smokers... Please... The one thing that used to annoy me to no end was when other smokers would not watch where the smoke was going and bothered nonsmokers
Nonsmokers... Please... If you see someone smoking, don't walk up and stand right where the smoke is going. And really... If you ask a smoker to change seats they will almost all be happy to do so. (And please don't make that face like someone just farted when you see someone light up... that's just as rude in my book)

Hopefully I didn't make anyone angry with this post... Really wasn't my intent. I just want people to see both sides and realize that courtesy is the answer to the problem.

*Rum for whomever I offended!*

 The FoF pavilion near the mud pit was so smoky all of the time I never could even go in there. I paid my money too! I am very allergic to cigarette smoke.
I think there should be possibly 2 pavilions? One for smokers- one for non smokers. Or more?  Sometimes there seems no way to escape the smoke.

I understand the smoker's arguments about it being an outdoor event, but I paid my money too.
When the FOF areas are full of smokers we can't go inside because the smoke in the relatively
confined space makes it unpleasant for those of us allergic to cigarette smoke.
I usually don't complain, I just walk away.
If just one area was non-smoking, I can't see that being a hardship to the smokers who can light
up across the rest of the faire.

What Teach said, and a bit more...

I'm a smoker, but I do try to be mindful of the nons in any area I am in. The smokers should be respectful of the nons, but it's an unfortunate problem sometimes. I won't even fly because there aren't areas for this ridiculous habit. I'd pay more for a smoking section on a plane or bus within reason. I don't smoke in other people's cars if they don't, and won't if I've got a nonsmoker in mine. It's called respect. Some don't want to be around it, so I respect that.

I despise being a smoker, and the health troubles it brings, and I'm trying to quit. I understand the disgust some have. But, an outright ban in one area tends to be the first step to an outright ban everywhere.

JMO

I'm a smoker and do try my best to be respectful of non smokers. I do see the point though and can understand them wanting a non smoking area, as I wish there were more smoking areas for us. One a faire is only fair.

Being one who truly does not care where there is a cloud or not, here is my observation:
The rather larger FOF section in Pecan Grove can have an unspoken rule, it sorta does now.
I see many smokers who'll puff near the fence, put out the butt, toss it in the trash, then head into the main
area for gatorade and water.
The FOF over near Dr. Kaboom has a more casual approach; I have noticed that the smokers will subconcisouly
move when they are outnumbered by nons.
If there is a butt can, smokers move towards it. So, possibly strategic placement of trash cans?
Now, this would only work for the respectful of the bunch. Which I am proud to say is a fair amount of FOF types (Thank you!!!)
The ones that would run over a puppy just to save time, well... there is no hope for them, and they share this world with us.
A kind word usually goes a long way, if we ask and respond to one another even without a law to back it up, we are usually kind and respectful to one another.
That is a reason I love Scarby so much, there is an air of chivalry even if the shiny knights are all at the joust.

I too am an ex smoker, but still enjoy an occational pipe or nice cigar, and for someone to ask the question of making on smokey and one non is begs the question of making them both nonsmoking.  If it bothers you that much, then just ask then to be more considerate of others, and if they already are, then too bad so sad.  can't stand the heat get out of the kitchen.

 There in lies the problem. You pay for FOF and because you do not smoke- and so many others are smoking in the areas- you just don't use the area. It is a question of health- not just good manners and courtesy. Smoke and people who smoke are hard to stay away from when you are allergic.
I am so pleased at least the shows are non smoking.

I'm with you, QB.  You notice I don't do FOF?  One BIG reason is that smokers make me physically ill.  Not just the smell of smoke from the actual cigs/cigar, but the nicotine saturated clothing and the after smell where smokers have been. You won't find me at the White Horse (or inside the sidewalk at the Sea Devil at TRF) unless there is a strong wind blowing, and even then not for long.

I do appreciate the courtesy of most smokers, particularly those who know me and how much it affects me.  Most smokers at Scarby are courteous.  In no way am I belittling their efforts or intent of their courtesy.  I think they are all the better human beings for it.  The bottom line is any smoke is bad for me, even from those with the best of intentions.

Now I can see the pubs having smokers... no biggie to me.  I concede that smokers congregate there.  I don't 'need' to be there when at faire.  I REALLY don't appreciate places of necessity being off limits because of smokers.  Places I (might) 'need' to be... like restaurants (any place where food is at Scarby, but specifically where benches are inside).  Now places where you pay premium to get in for necessities (water, not booze) also make me sick.  To this point I haven't considered it an issue, I don't really like Gator Aide, and the extra perks of FOF are not terribly important to me.  The only thing I really lose is the companionship of friends that everyone else enjoys at FOF.  Remember, that is at FOF AND at the pubs AND at the indoor eateries for those who can't stand smoke.   

Bottom line is that smoker's DIRECT choice make it impossible for me to enjoy all of what I have paid for at faire.  Me, my wife, Bonnie, and a dozen others that I know of that frequent Scarby need to stay clear of even the considerate smokers.  We are not a small number.  I think it may be time for a SAFE area be made at faire, and it might as well encompass a 'premium' service that is already paid for, or at least a small part of it.

The way I see it, unless the person is belligerant about it, hey, it's their life.  Just keep it out of my face.  But, I draw the line at crass comments made because someone has an allergy.  Normally I am live and let live... in this case anyone who has that type of attitude I actually would wish my allergies on them.  Then let's see them spew 'too bad, so sad'.  Live it, then you have a right to condemn it based on intelligence, not just your own arrogance.

Stalk well...

I too am allergic to cigarette smoke, but I still buy my FoF pass, and am grateful for the perks it brings.  The smoke doesn't bother me as much as it used to years ago, and I usually just try to get upwind of a smoker if one happens to be nearby.  However, I have to carry my inhaler in my pouch when going to any faire, and usually have to use it at least once during the day, but I'm also allergic to other things outdoors.  Having one of the FoF areas be smoke-free would be a large benefit for me and my family.  Would it be possible to maybe setup a 3rd area in the middle of the grounds (like near the Crown Stage) that is smoke-free?  I wouldn't want to take away anything from FoF that do smoke.

There are many reasons to have a non-smoking FOF area.  But when you cut thru all the rest.  It is the right thing to do.

I am a smoker and do not mind a non smoking area at fair as they are quite common in the dane world and I am used to having to look for a smoking area. I for one will walk away from a group of people (adults or kiddos) to smoke a cigarette. I don't feel that everyone should be exposed to my "nasty" habit. But there are certain areas that I believe should be smoking areas; bar, pubs, etc are one of them. They are not health clubs. However there are also areas that I wish were NON-smoking areas, like restaurants, shows, and places where children gather in mass. I, as a smoker, cannot eat if someone is smoking near by. I also do not want someone smoking in an area that my children must be exposed to it. I don't smoke with them around and will leave anywhere that someone does.
  I guess what I am saying is that if I did buy a FOF pass, I live too far away to take advantage of one, I would not mind if a FOF area was made non smoking.

As a smoker myself,  and having a husband who enjoys the occasional cigar...I even now have a tendancy to step "away" from the masses to have a quick smoke.  And I always snuff it out and dispose of the butt properly. 

Even in the Friends of the Faire areas, I would sit away from others that aren't smoking.  , but having a nice place to rest is one of the perks I'd hate to lose

 Have the shows gone back to smoking? I had to leave the Iris and Rose show because of too many smokers. They used to have No Smoking signs up last year.

I don't recall ever seeing no smoking at shows
I used to smoke at the I&R shows... and that was only a few years ago... so I am pretty sure it was allowed otherwise also

*as long as they don't cut out the rum at shows I am ok...*

 I believe there were No Smoking signs up at the  Scarby shows for 2 years- but did not see them this year.

Cant help but post in here. While I understand what every smoking person have a right to do so, there absolutely have no right to endanger health of others.

Here is a link to a Mayo Clinic article what points out  that second hand smoke is poisonous and dangerous for health.

http://quitsmoking.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?zi=1/XJ&sdn=quitsmoking&cdn=health&tm=73&gps=49_1429_1180_701&f=00&su=p284.9.336.ip_p674.5.336.ip_&tt=2&bt=0&bts=0&zu=http%3A//www.mayoclinic.com/health/secondhand-smoke/CC00023


You may argue that you walk away from crouds when you smoke but wind will blow smoke right back to our faces; when multiple people smoke around, it is absolutely miserable. You also may say that noone yet died from inhaling second hand smoke for one weekend but here is just a short list of what second hand smoke inhaling will do to many right off the bat:

Chronic coughing, phlegm and wheezing
Eye and nose irritation
Reduced lung function
Irritability

Why should us,  non- smoking folks ,have to pay with our health for someone's bad habit? There are areas for smokers everywhere- FoF places, pubs,  Bonnie reported awful smoking at shows.. Where are the non smoking areas, I wonder?

Thanks for listening my ranting, I never smoked  when I have to inhale someone else's smoke, not only I have to smell the stink but my throat  will get scratchy and depending on the proximity, my eyes irritate as well.. So , have Mercy , smoking folks....

..... o.O

<----is a smoker, and can't smoke in malls, restaurants, clubs, bars, movie theatres, grocery stores, Wal Mart, pizza joints, gas stations, liquor stores, pharmacies, schools, hospitals, offices, paint factories, refineries, nail salons, hair salons, strip clubs, sushi bars, government buildings, food banks, the DPS (where I REALLY need to smoke), divorce court, 24 Hour Fitness, poker tournaments, 80's themed parties, Dave and Busters, comedy clubs, Burger King, Claires, crawfish boils, and practically NOWHERE in the states of California and Colorado.

When  I asked about non-smoking areas, I really meant Scarby areas...Just to clarify

Don't know how many current Scarborough folk remember Ed Westfield (The Scribe).  I believe he was also a Scarborough Squire.  He was a dear friend that we lost several years ago to throat cancer.  He waited too long to quit smoking.  Ellen sent me some of his ashes for distribution on some of our sites.

I quit in 1987 after being a heavy smoker for 27 years.  Still reach for my pocket every once in a while.  When you've gotten to my age, the number of friends lost to lung and throat cancer really brings home the need to quit.

Sorry for the rant, but we rennies are few enough as it is.

I was really just joking LOL....

 I love the shows- but can't deal with being surrounded by smokers- so have to leave.I had been looking forward to a smoke free Iris and Rose show. The Sea Devil at TRF is way too smokey for me to attend their shows.
Lord A died of Lung Cancer.He gave up smoking. I had to ask a few folks to not smoke around him on his last visit to Scarby. Glad they were nice. He loved faire so much.

I've been lurking in this thread, even though I haven't been to TX yet.  And the operative word is - yet!

My mom died of lung cancer, my father died of emphysema.  All due to smoking.

Just because you can't see someone's reason for not smoking doesn't mean it doesn't affect them.  I had a kidney transplant.  A gift from a friend, and I do everything I can to keep that gift.

Know what they told me at the hospital?  Keep away from all smoke.  Even secondhand, it can affect the kidney, and because it's not my own kidney, the smoke can affect it more, and long term effects can cause me to damage it, and possibly lose it.

How many people in a huge crowd might be in the same circumstances?  Liver, kidney, pancreas, heart transplants.  You never know.  So that is 1 more reason to have non smoking areas.

Looking forward to one day visiting your fine state and the magnificent faires (whose pictures I see on these boards).

I do still see a few "Please put out Thy Butt" signs up at some of the shows (Doktor Kaboom, Chess Field and others), but they are not very visible.  We went to several shows Opening Day, and the only time someone's smoking really bothered me was at the final Joust.  They were sitting on the row just behind us, and it was blowing right into me.  I just patiently endured, and was glad they didn't chain-smoke.

I thought all shows were supposed to be non-smoking due to the close proximity of sitting in a crowd.

A Dutch study published last year in the Public Library of Science Medicine journal said that health care costs for smokers were about $326,000 from age 20 on, compared to about $417,000 for thin and healthy people.

The reason: The thin, healthy people lived much longer.

Bringing it back to the question at hand, I think that the point is that Berit was asking about making ONE of the areas non-smoking, not all of them.  If it's just one area, I think that's rather fair (get it?  Fair?  Faire?  MWAHAHAHAAA!  I crack myself up!).  That way the smokers still have space, the non-smokers have a space, and it's all good.  Smokers can still go into the non-smoking area, they just can't smoke there, and non-smokers who can tolerate the smoke can still hang out in the smoking area.

Just my $0.02.   :)

Lys

This is from the FAQ of the Scarborough website.

Smoking:  Although smoking is allowed throughout the park, we ask that guests refrain from smoking in the audience of our shows.

For a minute there this thread was getting pretty darn tense!  Of course, that happens anytime you talk about things people are passionate about:  drugs, sex, war, rum...smoking....

So-
I think- based off of original post/request/issue that perhaps their should be a non-smoking FoF area.  Those who are more conscious of their health will appreciate the gesture and safe haven, while those who don't care/doesn't bother them can still have their place to get their fix, fill their need, kill a lung - ack that slipped in there, I swear it!!-

There will always be stupid people- stupid people who don't smoke, stupid people who do smoke.  So, it seems as if whatever gestures of goodwill (clean air) are made, there is still the great chance that some of those stupid people will get in a small crowd at a show and light up.  Unless you hire the faire ogre to do something about those people...hmm actually, that is a thought...

If you smoke- be aware of those around you and direction of wind ;)
If you don't smoke- be aware of those around you and direction of wind ;) 
If you are stupid (which, as I established can be either)- well, I am looking into my options with the ogre on that one...

Alright- got smoking tackled- who wants to take on drugs, sex, war or rum?!?!

*Rum now?*

You want to hear a little secret...


but don't freak out or anything...


I've only had rum once!

I, like Queen B and others, am allergic to smoke. My vote would be to make one of the areas non-smoking and one smoking. That may be too simple to enact as usually something needs to be complicated and discussed in detail, voted upon, rebelled upon and....
I did notice some mundanes smoking at some of the shows (in the middle of the seating, not near the edges) where smoking is banned. There are inconsiderate smokers, and inconsiderate non-smokers (one large lady who sat in front of us at Dr. Kaboom farted like thunder the entire show) so this will likely continue.
I appreciate most smokers in that they do try to be considerate of those of us who need to avoid smoke. I don't want to infringe on anyone's rights, the right to smoke or the right to breathe fresh, clean air...a debate which will continue as long as fire exists.
One non-smoking, one smoking. Too easy.

Quote from: CassandraR on April 13, 2009, 11:41:14 PM
You want to hear a little secret...


but don't freak out or anything...


I've only had rum once!

We'll have to fix that... a lot

*Rum... It's what's for breakfast!*

The FOF areas weren't all that full this past weekend, especially the one next to the Dirty Duck. So smoke didn't seem to be an issue. The smokers seem to have preferred the FOF booth near the coin stamper.
I did notice a big increase in smoking at the shows. And try as I might, I saw not one 'no smoking' sign.
They must be pretty obscure.

I know that they have a no smoking sign over at the Rose and Crown.
( I watched the site crew post it)
Not sure about the other signs.
DonaCatalina is right, the Duck FOF is where it is almost deserted.

 I know they had No Smoking signs at the stages for the 2 years before this! I had to point them out to a few smokers. The shows are not pleasant for non smokers. I hope the No smoking signs return. No way I can sit through a show surrounded by smokers.

The RPFS FOF Garden has a specific smoking area that's separate from the rest.  Helps restrict the spread of the smoke.