I have a feeling I'm going to be needing a lot of help with my bodice, so this is probably going to be a thread fulll of questions. Any help that anyone can give would be awesome.
So, first question: I've been following the Baroness Doune's instructions for making a bodice from a big three pattern. (instructions found here: http://www.karen.htmlcreators.com/renbodice.html (http://www.karen.htmlcreators.com/renbodice.html)) I understand most of it, but I got stuck at figuring out my size. I made the custom corset pattern, but it seems as though I'm too small for all the sizes, which isn't possible. How are you supposed to line stuff up and compare it? Do the edges of the front and back pieces meet at the sizing lines? Or do they overlap more? Can I just use the sizing on the pattern envelope?
Thanks again!
The big 3 run big. I buy my size with them and usually have to end up taking more away because I end up being smaller than what they make you beleive.
Pin the pattern pieces together along the seam lines to compare them. If the center front is on a fold, you don't need to do anything about it. If it's open. fold the seam allowance out of the way. Do the same at the back.
BTW, I always trace off patterns and do all the alterations on a copy in case things go wrong...
I, too, heard that the big 3 run big, however... I did also hear (possibly even from several others on this forum) that their newest patterns are showing true to size for the first time... so... I'd still make a cheapo mockup
I just noticed a fold line on the front pattern pieces, about an inch and a half away from the middle of the front(where the grommets will be). Should I be measuring to the fold line? If not, I'm too small for the pattern, which I don't think is true- I have a 34.25 inch bustline.
Edit: If I measure to the fold line, size eight fits me perfectly. I think tomorrow I will copy this on some other paper, and try making a mock-up to see how well it fits. Wish me luck!
Good luck. Hope it works out for you.
Do post pix of the mock-up (toile) on you, so we can help with the fit. I'm looking forward to this. You are doing all the right things so far.
Which pattern are you using?
The same one used in the instructions- Simplicity 5582.
Whenever I have time, I'm going to trace the front onto new paper, and remove the darts. I already traced the back.
OK, seems clear to me that you have a good set of instructions. ;D
And if you get stuck, there are plenty of us here to tow you out of the tangles... ;)
Don't forget that the pattern pieces have a 5/8" seam allowance. If you're pinning the pattern together at the lines that show your size, it will be 1 1/4" too big when you try it on.
That said, Simplicity does have an issue with sizing. And sometimes they just do things weird. I made a bodice pattern that I discovered upon investigation was designed with 4 INCHES of ease in the bust! o.O So, I made it again, in a smaller size, and it got 3 or 4 inches shorter. Neither result looked like what the girl on the package was wearing. Clearly they custom modified the garment to fit the model, not made the pattern as it was designed. I've run into that problem a couple of times with Simplicity, and not just the bodices.
When I'm making bodices from Big 3 patterns, I chose the size based on the finished garment measurements, rather than the size it says should go with my measurements. I've had better luck getting the right size that way.
QuoteDon't forget that the pattern pieces have a 5/8" seam allowance. If you're pinning the pattern together at the lines that show your size, it will be 1 1/4" too big when you try it on.
Also, remember that a bodice should fit *very* snugly. If it's loose anywhere, it will be uncomfortable and it won't look right. So: mock that baby up!
Here's what the Baroness told me, to compare sizes between patterns:
Quoteslide the patterns down the center front line until the top line and bottom line of both patterns match up fairly closely at approximately the side seam area. It is more important to match the top line than the bottom. Look at the center back line of the corsets to see how close or far apart they are.
So after tracing the pattern and removing te darts, I cut out some muslin and just sewed the 2 side and shoulder seams. I tried it on, and much to my surprise it was too small. I was expecting it to be too big, and was thinking of making a six instead of the eight. Good thing I made the mock-up. Looks like I'll be making the ten. After testing out that mock-up, I will definitely need some help with fabric choice. Do I really need six layers of fabric?
Six layers - you'd be cooking. I use two layers of cotton duck for the boning & an outer fashion fabric.
I think I misread what Baroness Doune was saying. Six layers would definitely be an awful lot!
After all the reading I've done over the years I believe 6 layers is right. In the bodice I'm making I did 2 muslin layers for the boning, then canvas on either side, then front fashion fab, and inside/lining.
Most of my bodices are four layers--the duck/canvas layer IS the boning layer (and is often my mockup as well, which then converts to being the boning layer), then I add a lining layer on the inside and a fashion fabric layer on the outside.
Margrett
Yes, what Margrett said, sandwich the boning between two layers, then apply a front fabric and a lining.
Dayna
I've always seen the outside and inside referred to as being made out of fashion fabric-what exactly does this mean? Any fabric that looks good? Or should I stick to a certain fiber content/weight? I know natural fibers are always the best, ny other recommendations?
The outer fashion fabric is usually a brocade, damask, silk, or velvet. I do the outer fabric, two layers of duck for the bone channels (or 1 layer if I'm using bone casing), and cotton twill for the lining since it's not as rough but almost as strong as the duck.
What about for a peasant? I'm guessing less expensive fabrics would be used. Also, Baroness Doune refers to making a turned bodice. I'm guessing this means you sew it inside out, the turn it, but I really can't picture it, especially with the boning. How does this work? And is there any way to make an unturned bodice?
Also, if anyone's curious, I made two mock-ups, size 8 and ten, and decided to make the ten.
To make a turned bodice you sew the boning channels, sew one edge shut (for mine usually the neckline and straps), turn it inside out, sew the sides, insert the boning, and handstitch or edgestitch the bottom closed. Most people use upholstery fabrics for peasant, or you could go with wool if you wanted to stick to natural fabrics.
I did a turned bodice. Sewed the boning into the lining first, sewed that into the fabric, turned the whole thing. The plastic zip ties are very flexible! ;D
Hopefully this weekend I'll be able to buy cotton duck for the boning channels, and upholstery fabric for the outer layer.
I'm still really confused about sewing a turned bodice. Is there any way to do an un-turned bodice?
If you don't want to turn it, you could finish it w/bias trim.
After all the reading I've done over the years I believe 6 layers is right. In the bodice I'm making I did 2 muslin layers for the boning, then canvas on either side, then front fashion fab, and inside/lining.
Quote from: Margrett on May 10, 2009, 12:36:41 PM
Most of my bodices are four layers--the duck/canvas layer IS the boning layer (and is often my mockup as well, which then converts to being the boning layer), then I add a lining layer on the inside and a fashion fabric layer on the outside.
Margrett
That is how I did my first few but liked having canvas in between the boning and fashion fabric so you can't see the boning channels through. I believe this is a tip I got from Lady Kathleen ?? but instead muslin she uses all canvas?
Goody!!
When I do a Bodice muslin, I do that so the client I am making a bodice for, gets the correct fit. My muslin is an exact copy that I use for the actual pattern for after adjustments are done to avoid poor fit.
The actual Bodice itself is underlined in 2 layers of Cotton Canvas Duck where I make the boning channels. If the fashion fabric is too light, I underline it with Broadcloth to give it more stability. Then the lining underneath. There can be 4 to 5 layers all together.
Hope this helps you.
Thanks Lady K!
With my middle class (front lacing) bodice, I used sew-in interfacing (the heaviest one they had at Hancocks) and sewed it to the cotton lining. Then I did boning channels out of bias tape (31 in all) and used cable ties for the boning. I found this awesome sort of country-colored plaid quilted upholstery remnant, and used that for my outside. I stitched the outside to the inside, and used burgundy bias tape (it matched the burgundy of the plaid) to bind it all. Then I added waist and shoulder tabs of cotton, the quilted fabric, and iron-on interfacing, which I turned at the edges, And the finishing touch were hand sewn cotton burgundy shoulder rolls. I'm really pleased with it, and it's pretty much as stiff as a corset, because of all the boning.
My gown bodice was fairly similar, but the boning was laid out very differently (it laces up the sides of the back) and I used canvas interlining (that I attached the boning channels to), instead of interfacing.
Does anyone have any clear, step-bystep instructions for making a turned bodice? Preferably with pictures? Thanks in advance!
Does anyone have any opinions to if a turned bodice is better than a bound bodice or not? I haven't tried one, but it seems like it would be very difficult.
I would also be very interested in the answer to Lady Rebecca's question.
The Baroness Doune has some options on her website.
http://www.karen.htmlcreators.com/renbodice.html (http://www.karen.htmlcreators.com/renbodice.html)
Towards the middle of this page it gives options on different ways to turn a bodice.
I've used the ones listed there for a side lacer. I found that that those directions assume that your bodice has no boning and you will be wearing a corset for support. You can check out my experience with the side lacer on my dress diary here:
http://coamrey.livejournal.com/1364.html#cutid1 (http://coamrey.livejournal.com/1364.html#cutid1)
I have a questions about the mock-up. Does it include the boning? I would think that after the boning is put in place, the garment would be smaller than it was before. Any help?
Quote from: tigrlily64 on May 03, 2009, 12:40:32 PM
I have a feeling I'm going to be needing a lot of help with my bodice, so this is probably going to be a thread fulll of questions. Any help that anyone can give would be awesome.
...
Thanks again!
While there may not be too many guys who would help with the sewing of a bodice, if you need any help (un)lacing one, there are probably quite a few who would help with that ... ;D ;)
Have fun with your project!
Take Care,
David Baldock
Guy who has sewn a few (literally) bodices here...
A boned bodice will be a tiny bit smaller, but just to account for the size of the boning. The difference is pretty minimal, in my experience. The last bodice I made for my wife is very heavily boned, and I lost maybe a 1/4 inch at the most once it was all boned. Doing a mock up, I would include at least some boning to get the material to hang right, as otherwise high tension parts (lacing areas, etc) could buch, and you won't see the fitting right through the wrinkles. Last one I made, I did a simple mock up for fitting, that had some boning, and was only two layers. From there I was able to do a few mino adjustments, and use the mock up as my actual insides, with the boning channels. I did make the mock up out of a heavy bottom cloth that I had a bunch of sitting around though. I would not suggest doing that with muslin, or something similar.
When making the mock-up, and then later the underlining, would you first sew the fronts to the backs at the seams for both parts, or would you sew the left fronts, right fronts, and backs together, then sew the front to back seams? In my mind, the first one makes more sense, but I could definitely be wrong. In fact, I probably am.
I sew the front panel together along the top.
I sew the side pieces together around the neckline and arm holes.
The back pieces I sew together along the neckline, arm holes and up the middle of the back. (if it's back laced)
Then I iron them the correct side facing out and then complete the assembly.
Tigrlily, what pattern are you using? It should include directions for turning it (usually through the straps). It's been a couple of years since I've made a boned bodice, and I have zero memory for how I make things (which is *so* helpful. ::)), but IIRC, the two front-lacing bodices I made were open at the bottom of the back and the straps. There should be enough room in the un-sewn portion of the straps to pull a fully-boned front section through easily. I usually turn it once to check that I did everything right, then turn it back inside-out and trim all the seam allowances. Turn it back, press everything, tuck the raw edges of your openings in, pin, press some more, and then topstitch around the entire bodice, closing those openings you used for turning.
You certainly can construct the bodice using "flat" construction (just stack everything together and sew around the edges), and then bind all the raw edges with bias trim (you may want to make your own, which will give a smoother finish than store-bought polyester bias). I think many seamstresses find binding to be fussier and more difficult than turning, even though turning *sounds* more confusing until you've done it. Neither way is right or wrong or better or worse. It's just what you prefer to do. If you're interested in binding your bodice instead of turning it, read the Baroness's guide to binding a corset by machine (http://www.karen.htmlcreators.com/tebindingcorset.html). The techniques are exactly the same. (Of course, you can also bind it by hand.)
My bodices are usually 4 layers: two layers of cotton canvas, a lining layer, and a "fashion fabric" layer. "Fashion fabric" simply refers to whatever fabric you've chosen for the visible outer layer--NOT the lining or the interlining. It's not making a judgement about your taste. ;) I like to make my bodices reversible, using tapestry for the "fashion fabric" layer and corduroy for the "lining" layer (lining refers not to the fabric that's inside the layers of the garment, but the fabric closest to your body as you wear it).
I'm including a picture of the canvas layer from one of my boned bodices, with the boning channels marked:
(http://pic50.picturetrail.com/VOL417/1033223/4707019/260713176.jpg)
I cut those two layers together, then graded the seam allowances and cut off the strap from the top layer, to reduce bulk*. I then marked the boning channels with a ruler and a pencil, and sewed along them (with the layers pinned together). I then marked each channel with an X, and sewed around the edges, stopping at each X (you don't want to accidentally sew the boning channels closed. It makes it hard to get the boning in. ;)). *I actually do the grading of seam allowances after I've sewn the pieces together, but it made more sense to explain that first.
The next thing I do is sew the canvas layer to the corduroy layer, so I can treat them as one piece of fabric. I *think* I put the boning into the channels next. I then assemble the bodice as Dona Catalina described. Then turn, finish the raw edges, topstitch, and add those grommets/eyelets/lacers!
Good luck! I sympathize with your confusion... but things become clearer as you actually do them. Sometimes it's hard to just read the instructions over and over and try to figure out what they're telling you to do. But once you have the fabric in hand, they make a lot more sense.
Here are a couple more image links to help you:
Turned bodice:
http://meritaten.com/costumes/cinnabod.jpg
Bound bodice:
http://www.oddbodkin.com (http://www.oddbodkin.com/shop/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=112_113&products_id=498)
I've had a problem with both bodices I've made so far: they fit fine through the body, but the straps fall off of my shoulders. Is there anything I can do to correct this? It hasn't been so much of a problem with my middle-class bodice, especially after I added the shoulder rolls, but then again, it is sleeveless. My noble bodice, however, it's a major problem on - I have sleeves that lace in to underneath the shoulder rolls on that bodice, and the sleeves (which are very elaborate and heavy), just pull the straps right off. Is there anything I can do about them?
My bodice straps are always too long, too. So my first suggestion is to make them shorter. ;)
You can also experiment with cutting them on the bias (or partially on the bias), so that they will stretch and conform to your shoulders better. If you do a google search for "corset straps" and other similar terms, you'll find lots of dress diarists who address this exact issue, show their strap patterns, etc.
A third option is to make sure that they're well anchored high and farther in on your back (think how a racer-back bra works). The lower and wider they are in back, the greater the likelihood of slippage.
Gem, I'm using commercial pattern 5582. It has instructions for sewing it flat, which I may end up doing. It makes more sense in my mind, and I'm uncomfortable experimenting too much on my first try. Especially since I'm pretty sure there will be a few more bodices in my future. ;) I'm just going to write out what I think I should be doing. If anyone sees any glaring errors, let me know!
1) Cut out four front interlinings and two backs. Then cut out two fronts and one back each of the fashion fabric and lining.
2) Sew the back interlinings together along the top, and the fronts along the top and down the middle.
3) mark and sew the boning channels.
4) Sew around the rest of the edge, skipping over the boning channels.
5) Insert boning.
6) Sew the boning channels closed.
7) Sew the fashion fabric and lining to the interlining.
8) Sew the fronts to the backs.
9) Apply binding tape around edges.
10) Put in grommets.
I think that's how it goes. I don't even have my fabric yet, so we'll see when I'll actually have time to put this together.
I'm so excited! I'm almost done with the bodice, I think I might be able to finish it today...except for the grommets.
So, now I have questions about those. Where do you buy them? What kind to buy? How do you put them in? And where do you put them in?On the inside or the outside of the first boning?
1) O l l O or 2) l O O l ?
O=grommets, l=boning
I can't wait to finish this bodice!
Use industrial grommets, NOT the ones you find in JoAnns. They will not hold up to the stress of a bodice. They also require a special setter that is different than the ones you buy there.
I get my grommets from Alter Years.
http://www.alteryears.com/index.html?c202.html&1 (http://www.alteryears.com/index.html?c202.html&1)
They have the setters and different sizes and colors of grommets. I perfer the 00 size.
The first bone should be at the edge of your bodice where it comes together. Then a 1/2" space. Then another bone. I put my grommets between the two bones in that 1/2" space. That way the outer bone takes stress and distributes the tension evenly.
I have never had any pull out.
I know others here bring their projects to shoe repair people for setting. I'm sure Lady Kathleen will chime in about that.
QuoteThe first bone should be at the edge of your bodice where it comes together. Then a 1/2" space. Then another bone. I put my grommets between the two bones in that 1/2" space.
What she said.
I buy my grommets from Ace Hardware. Now I just take the old package with me and ask for more, but I think the ones you want are sold as "tarp grommets." You get a kit that comes with a setting tool (which you can also use to punch the holes) and a bunch of grommets. They also sell the grommets by themselves.
Now, if the boning is at the edge of the bodice, will I need to handstitch the bias tape to those edges? Like a whipstitch? Or should there be a little bit of room from the edge, that I could machine sew it on?
Thank you!
There should be at least 1/2", not only to make room for attaching the bias, but so the bones don't poke you.
Thanks! This actually saves me a lot of trouble, since I already have it boned 5/8" away from the edge. I hae unpicking stitches. Then I'd have to handstitch, which is also not my favorite activity, as well as being one I'm bad at.
I was bad at it, too. Until I hemmed a velveteen Irish gown by hand (the entire skirt circumference + up the front opening). My hand-sewing took a giant leap forward in quality. Now, after having entirely hand-sewn a linen chemise (with French seams, no less!), my hand-sewing is pretty darn good. Here's a shot of the bound neckline (which is similar to your corset binding), which was my favorite part of the whole project:
(http://pic50.picturetrail.com/VOL417/1033223/17273772/315580369.jpg)
A lot of fine finishing skills require hand-sewing, so it's really worth it to practice. It really doesn't take much to get lots better at it. Promise! Plus it's *so* rewarding!
You also get pretty quick at it too! ;D