According to the TRF website.
yeah i saw that. wonder if they've done anything to the campground or are just hiking the price up for revenue's sake....
WHAT THE HELL????? I have a prediction for this season...
15.00 turkey legs...
I believe it is due to several factors:
Increase in security coverage due to extended period (remember some of us come in on Thursday), plus having to deal with the "problem" group(s).
Increase in cleanup crew work. Those of you who leave on Sunday don't see the mess that is left Monday.
The increased cost may turnback some of the young groups who only come out to party.
I'm not saying that it's not worth the 20. It's just that WOW, what a hike from last year. There wasn't even the 15.00 buffer LOL.
Quote from: mpullen on June 30, 2009, 08:58:24 AM
I believe it is due to several factors:
Increase in security coverage due to extended period (remember some of us come in on Thursday), plus having to deal with the "problem" group(s).
Increase in cleanup crew work. Those of you who leave on Sunday don't see the mess that is left Monday.
The increased cost may turnback some of the young groups who only come out to party.
This makes sense. Whatever has to happen will happen. We will budget it in.
Does this come with KY, A stick of butter or a handful of sand and ground glass? >:(
I can understand an increase but to double?
I'm assuming this is still per carload?
I'll be interested to hear from those of you going earlier weekends how this effects the camping... I'm sure it's well intended (HAH) but I doubt that the only effect will be to hopefully run off those 'darn kids' (waving my cane) who shouldnt be there in the first place,
Mostly, though, George is an evil bastard and wants more money.
Well, there was a noted increase of police presence after the 1st weekend last year. I personally saw them kick some to the curb that didn't have tickets, and were disruptful even in the line to get in. I'm happy to pay it...
maybe it will cut down on the youngsters... that way us old people can really get down! :P
It might be the city/county too. Due to falling home appraisels (hence lower property tax revenue) they've jacked up rates on everything from garbage collection to base tax rates.
The boat ramp I use did have a $5 fee and now it's $10 because the city started to tax them to death. Crappy economy screws us on all levels.
Quote from: Hercules on June 30, 2009, 10:34:24 AM
It might be the city/county too. Due to falling home appraisels (hence lower property tax revenue) they've jacked up rates on everything from garbage collection to base tax rates.
The boat ramp I use did have a $5 fee and now it's $10 because the city started to tax them to death. Crappy economy screws us on all levels.
King George owns the town too, so that is not the excuse.
I won't claim that profit is evil, it has given us what is arguably the greatest faire in the country. But I do like to see extra service for extra money.
I did appreciate the extra police presence last season and if that's what they want to use to justify the increase, I'll go along. I've heard rumors there was some expansion if not improvements to the campgrounds. As MPullen can tell you, clearing land for camping is not cheap or easy.
the problem is that the Powers That Be make this sort of price hike without taking into consideration other factors, and it hurts the faire as a whole. Remember when they jacked the gate fees up through the roof? It hurt attendance pretty bad. Now, we have an economic slump where people don't have a lot of spare cash, this is not the time to raise any fees.
*shrugs*
Oh well, it fits the four year cycle of faire, one great year, one horrible year, and two years in between
Quote from: Zaubon on June 30, 2009, 11:11:37 AM
I've heard rumors there was some expansion if not improvements to the campgrounds. As MPullen can tell you, clearing land for camping is not cheap or easy.
[/quote]
No rumor there, there has been extensive expansion and ground work done at this point in time, and the groundscrew isn't done yet.
Quote from: captfletcher on June 30, 2009, 05:48:38 PM
Quote from: Zaubon on June 30, 2009, 11:11:37 AM
I've heard rumors there was some expansion if not improvements to the campgrounds. As MPullen can tell you, clearing land for camping is not cheap or easy.
No rumor there, there has been extensive expansion and ground work done at this point in time, and the groundscrew isn't done yet.
[/quote]
Captain Fletcher, a boon to ask. Do you have a contact person I can ask to allow me to come onsite and view the campground modifications, so that I can include them in my annual map?
Quote from: mpullen on June 30, 2009, 06:01:55 PM
Quote from: captfletcher on June 30, 2009, 05:48:38 PM
Quote from: Zaubon on June 30, 2009, 11:11:37 AM
I've heard rumors there was some expansion if not improvements to the campgrounds. As MPullen can tell you, clearing land for camping is not cheap or easy.
No rumor there, there has been extensive expansion and ground work done at this point in time, and the groundscrew isn't done yet.
Captain Fletcher, a boon to ask. Do you have a contact person I can ask to allow me to come onsite and view the campground modifications, so that I can include them in my annual map?
If they let you visit, maybe you could take a few photos to share with us. :)
I plan on going up there sometime soon. In fact, Ace was there this past weekend. I don't think that he took a peekers at the Patron Campground, but I'm sure we can work it into our schedule next time...
Quote from: Zaubon on June 30, 2009, 11:11:37 AM
Quote from: Hercules on June 30, 2009, 10:34:24 AM
It might be the city/county too. Due to falling home appraisels (hence lower property tax revenue) they've jacked up rates on everything from garbage collection to base tax rates.
The boat ramp I use did have a $5 fee and now it's $10 because the city started to tax them to death. Crappy economy screws us on all levels.
King George owns the town too, so that is not the excuse.
I won't claim that profit is evil, it has given us what is arguably the greatest faire in the country. But I do like to see extra service for extra money.
TRF hires cops from 3 different counties. Many communities set rates for hiring their officers. If those rates go up, TRF has to pay more or go find different cops, who may not be experienced in the whole TRF scenario. Also, TRF traffic has a massive impact on Magnolia. They have to hire more cops to deal with it. Guess who pays that bill? I doubt $20 a car covers all that, just takes the edge off.
Outrageous /// What about us poor folk that has no money!?
I blame Obama.
Well, I blame B.O also, but I'm will ing to pay 40 dollars to camp, I spend 300 dollars just to come to TRF, and drop no less than 300 dollars there. So 20 dollars, NO BIG DEAL!
mpullen, did you receive a PM from me?
Quote from: captfletcher on July 01, 2009, 11:39:47 PM
mpullen, did you receive a PM from me?
Yes. Just replied.
2 1/2 months is plenty of time for me to save the extra money. And if it cuts down on the riff-raff, it's well worth it.
I for defiantly noticed a huge difference in the RIF RAF category last year. If this increase will help pay for more armed security then I am more than happy to pay it and then some. Having said that I can see where it would make a difference to those who make it every weekend. What about the idea of a season pass for camping as well?
Oh by the way bless whoever added spell check for a poor old dyslexic like me
Just looked at the website- it says, specifically, that the charge is $20 with purchase of festival tix... has anyone gotten clarification on whether we will be required to show tickets on arrival? We'll likely pre-order, but just wondering...
Quote from: bellevivre on July 06, 2009, 01:00:33 PM
Just looked at the website- it says, specifically, that the charge is $20 with purchase of festival tix... has anyone gotten clarification on whether we will be required to show tickets on arrival? We'll likely pre-order, but just wondering...
expect to show your tickets when you arrive at the campgrounds. :) if you don't have them, you can buy the tickets from the officer working the gate. we had to show our tickets every weekend last year.
Abbynormal, I think you have brought up some valid points. Depressing, but valid.
Just like things out in the general population, where the police have openly stated that they cannot protect people, we have to be aware that the police will not always be there to protect us. Our tax dollars go for paying for our home protection. Notice that there are constant reports of robberies, car thefts, assaults, etc. that the police cannot be there to stop? It's a matter of too much territory and too little police coverage. It's the same thing at TRF. The tax (the camping fee) goes to pay for the security coverage. The security force cannot be everywhere. All they can do is look for the hot spots. Folks have to be proactive while camping. Never have anything openly available. Have someone staying in the area to keep an eye open for unwelcome visitors.
BTW, the camping fee also goes for paying the cleanup crew labor. Seriously, the amount of trash folks leave in the area has increased vastly over the past 10 years. If you were in the campgrounds Monday morning, you would see the piles of trash that folks leave in their camping areas (and not piled at the trash receptacles).
As the campgrounds manager for the upcoming Sherwood Forest Faire, all these costs are on my mind. We will be charging $5 per person for a weekend. I intend that all the trash in the group (reserved) camping areas be the responsibility of the groups. We will only collect the trash in the general camping areas. If a group trashes their area, they will lose it and it will be available for another group to claim or it will be made a general camping area.
I believe in personal responsibility. If a group isn't responsible enough to take care of their area, they don't deserve the area.
Abbynormal, I'm not going to get into a message troll session.
I am just a Playtron camper of 12 years experience and not privy to what the TRF staff have decided. I can only observe and give my opinion. I can do a bit deeper investigation of reasons and whys from the other TRF staff folks I know, but most are not "official" opinions.
Forgive me if I have stated anything to offend. I only live to enjoy the camping experience and pass on to any new campers advice on what to expect. 10 years ago there were many tent campers and few RVs. Now many folks who have found a RV a more comfortable experience have joined the camping groups. As an old phart (59) I need my A/C at the end of a long day in faire.
Can we please watch the language?
It's not a matter of censoring, its a matter of politeness.
Thank you!
Abby,
I'm not here to argue the point you are trying make regarding camping, just asking you to watch your language. Yes, we are all adults and as such, should be able to behave appropriately. If you would refer to the forum regulations you will see that it specifically addresses vulgar language. One of the things that many of us here enjoy about this forum is being able to have a conversation or read a topic without it being littered with curse words.
If you have issue with this, please take it up with John or Deadbishop.
Thank you.
The topic of this thread is the raised camping fee.
It is a bummer. If we don't camp, then we don't have to pay the extra cash. If we decide to camp then, well, we pay. The economy is pinching everyone and I hate to see the fee go up, but I will not let it deter me from camping and enjoying myself. I will adjust my budget accordingly or whatever I need to do.
Well that is the thing about any private park, football stadium or baseball field, they can suck us dry and we just keep giving over the cash like cows, lol!
Quote from: Abbynormal on July 11, 2009, 09:38:45 PMAnd the reasons behind the fee aren't justified as far as I can see.
Then don't go. That's the beauty of free expression. No one is holding a gun to your head. There are other private campsites close by or a hotel/motel.
Quote from: Abbynormal on July 11, 2009, 08:21:54 PM
Quote from: Trillium on July 11, 2009, 07:39:13 PM
Can we please watch the language?
It's not a matter of censoring, its a matter of politeness.
Thank you!
Why? Colorful language is a part of us humans, is it not? I thought most of us
were/are adults and can handle colorful language.
What I am disappointed with, is the mere fact that my words are censored, without provocation or question.
One can be polite while cussing. It's only a matter of perspective.
edit -- and btw, if all you care about that is you're offended by the language, then you just aren't getting the message. It's just not that hard to read.
Hi Abbynormal,
I'm speaking out of turn, Sir Martin is the moderator of the TRF forum.
This message board is configured to replace several bad words with something else.
We like it that way because it makes the forum more appealing to others.
We're a diverse group and keeping the language polite is a small price to pay for their company.
Cheers!
John
Admin RenaissanceFestival.com
972-259-8081
Hey guys ... I for one am glad to see that folks are passionate about all aspects of TRF. The campgrounds are part of the long and storied history of our grand faire and I believe it is legitimate to ask why the camping fees are increasing. During our discussion, let's try to keep the proceedings commensurate to a "PG" level. The reason for this is because, unlike John's Inn, this forum can be accessed by anyone of any age at any time without even establishing an account at renaissancefestival.com. Even Christophe and Sound & Fury give disclaimers before their shows. ;)
I understand the intensity of emotion when faced with expenses that seem hard to justify. Hopefully TRF management will help clarify this for us in the near future.
Ok seriously guys we are complianing about at most $80 more than last year for the entire season? I look at it like this, yes it is $10 more than it has been to camp, and yes it may be a false since of security, but really how many people who are complaining about it waste $ 10 on needless crap every week and continue to justify that. I am not saying that I really support the raised fee but is it really worth getting worked up over? Go to fair have fun and pay the extra $10 if you want to camp. If you start saving now you can put back $80 at less than $8 a week. Lol come on guys it's $10
Shawn
Well they did clear more land and put in two new roads the last couple of years. That at least is something for the increase. given the increase in my WSG bill the last couple of years I'm sure their trash bill has gone up too. Since my insurance has gone up I'm sure theirs has too. Still all things togeather its cheaper than the alternatives. There are things we can control and things we can't this is one we can't. As for the the reason being BS comparied to the BS we get from the government, union thugs, corporate thugs, etc this is small cap bs.
Is it $20 per day or $20 to get in and stay regardless of the duration?
Quote from: Hercules on July 12, 2009, 04:25:23 PM
Is it $20 per day or $20 to get in and stay regardless of the duration?
It is $20 per weekend with ticket to camp.
Its $20 per car for the weekend.
We drive from MN with 6-8 people in our van, they look at our plates and don't bother asking for tickets.
Isn't it still a great deal cheaper than shelling out the $200-300 for a hotel for the weekend?!? I mean, sure... you'd have a shower and an ice machine... woohoo... ::) :D
It's also way cheaper than a DWI, which is the reason I started camping in the first place.
And until camping is more expensive than the Best Western on 105, I'm paying my money and thanking the Gods we have a campground.
Just my opinion.
i agree- I would much rather only have to worry about staggering safely back to camp than having to make our way to a hotel! And, in my opinion, camping is just as much fun as faire itself, so I dont really mind paying 20 for a 2 night party!
Quote from: captfletcher on June 30, 2009, 05:48:38 PM
No rumor there, there has been extensive expansion and ground work done at this point in time, and the groundscrew isn't done yet.
Groundscrew? Sounds kinky!
Quote from: Abbynormal on July 11, 2009, 04:42:19 PM
[abridged]
Don't you guys get it?? It's NOT THE MONEY that bothers me... it's the entire principle of it all. Who really cares about twenty bucks. screw that... the RIFF RAFF has twenty bucks!
I'm paying twenty bucks to sleep on a piece of property, while taking my own camp stuff, my own water and gas.
And what am I getting in return for these funds?
A primitive campsite with limited ability for security, a false sense of security, and a nasty puke-filled privy.
Wow. Same shine I got 20 years ago at TRF camp.
Were that everything could be seen in simple black and white...
Provided that the additional revenue is spent on the camping (not assured), then there will likely only be an incremental improvement. A true Utopian camping area would cost many times the asking price to provide. It has always been "you pays yer money and you takes yer chances".
Since TRF is hiring off-duty law enforcement instead of a private security firm or getting a letter of authority and developing their own in-house security team, they are paying out the nose for it. Extra-duty job coordinators for the departments generally set the rate based on the probable threat level their officers might face (often exaggerating the hell out of the threat to milk the victi... err... client. Sorry, working in law enforcement one comes to love the extra jobs, but hate the coordinators), and having cops doing security out there probably runs a minimum of $40/hour per officer. Todd Mission PD and Grimes County Sheriff's Dept are the only local outfits that are probably doing it on their tax-paid schedule, so you're looking at an average of a dozen officers at LEAST that are EDJ hires. That's almost $500 an hour. So, while the rebellious Libertarian in me gets a significant eye twitch at the rate hike, the professional in me sees what most don't- for every incident that does happen, the presence of the officers probably prevented or mitigated twenty others that would have happened. It sure as hell isn't perfect (and I think the security could be better with what they already have with a little extra training and give-a-damn), but the money is having some effect, even if it is inefficient.
I just had a Friend ask me this cause she will be working there for her first time this year and has always liked being out there. ( what about workers who have passes but want to go over to the other side to see there friends and family for a hour or two.)
The standard rule for participants are you are to pay the camping fee. The only way I know around it is if you park over by there in and morning and visit then leave. However that being said if they are cracking down more and more every year I could forsee them checking those cars for camping tags in the foreseeable future.
It is actually frowned upon that participants go to the patron campgrounds. If you show your participants pass at the camping gate, they will tell you that you can't go in at that entrance.
Yup yup, they don't want participates to be mingling outside of character with patrons. Then to get in the morning you have to go all the way back out and then down and park back at the EB to go in. They will not let you in the front gates with a pass.
Quote from: blue66669 on July 19, 2009, 05:49:13 PM
It is actually frowned upon that participants go to the patron campgrounds. If you show your participants pass at the camping gate, they will tell you that you can't go in at that entrance.
Yes, you have to pretend to be a patron. I usually get a ticket & hang onto it all season to make the guard happy & then give it away the last weekend.
unless you want to go on foot, in which case just walk out the front gate with everyone else ;D
It's just as I thought I just wanted to make sure what to tell her so she would not freak out later and say I didn't tell her everything.
Thank you all.
Kat, remember how they used to threaten to remove our passes if we got caught using them to enter playtrons camp at Charlie's guard shack? I believe when we get our picture taken for the pass we still have to sign a form that states this. They are trying to keep rennies who are giving Meth to the kids at drum circle out of playtrons. Bad things have been happening that threaten having camp shut down completely. If the fee keeps these folks out, then so be it.
Rennie drug dealers? Say it ain't so! :o
Ha! Good one Pyro. ;)
But there's a diff between folks who CHOOSE to buy drugs and kids who unknowingly get spiked in order to get hooked. I know the threat of closing camp has been there for years, but I don't know if it's a rumor like the whole Disney buyout, or if I should be concerned. I don't want to take any chances; camp is my fav part of faire.
Closing playtron camp would hurt the faire's ability to make money. George won't do ANYTHING that would hurt the income, even risky stuff up to and including skimping on lighting and security in the parking lot.
I saw and increase in civility last year from the added security.
I have heard about the extra space that has been cleared. Looking forward to seeing exactly where it is. Over by where Celtic Rogues camp, if I heard right.
I have no problems with the extra camping fee. Still a lot cheaper then the alternative.
Yes, the trash left behind is truly impressive. A handy sort of person could cull through some of that stuff for all kinds of fixable items though. Chairs, stoves, coolers, etc... I advise sanitizing whatever you find though.
Quote from: Grov on August 01, 2009, 09:36:23 AM
I have heard about the extra space that has been cleared. Looking forward to seeing exactly where it is. Over by where Celtic Rogues camp, if I heard right.
Negative, the new land clearing was in the row 0 area.
I'm going to download a satellite/aerial view of the area and create a new grid map of the area. I'll be posting that in a week or so. Since there isn't a satellite/aerial view that has been updated recently, I'll add notes to the map.
Of course, if you will be at Sherwood Forest on August 8th, I'll have pictures that show the newly cleared areas.
Hmm, so does everyone shift one row down, or do we elect some to take the new spots? I guess there might be a mad dash in store for some. As long as I bring my earplugs for sleeping, I don't really care.
Quote from: Grov on August 01, 2009, 06:10:57 PM
Hmm, so does everyone shift one row down, or do we elect some to take the new spots? I guess there might be a mad dash in store for some. As long as I bring my earplugs for sleeping, I don't really care.
Not sure what the clans that have traditional camp areas are doing...if anything. If ML decides to shift/move we will let everyone know. :)
Got the new pics, hosting them here (http://ciarraide.org/temp/pics/TRF09/), but here's some of the pertinent ones of the new camping space-
From left to right
(http://ciarraide.org/temp/pics/TRF09/TRF09_patrons2.jpg)
(http://ciarraide.org/temp/pics/TRF09/TRF09_patrons3.jpg)
(http://ciarraide.org/temp/pics/TRF09/TRF09_patrons4.jpg)
The newer camping area back into the treeline at the back
(http://ciarraide.org/temp/pics/TRF09/TRF09_patrons5.jpg)
One of many new culvert sections
(http://ciarraide.org/temp/pics/TRF09/TRF09_patrons1.jpg)
(http://ciarraide.org/temp/pics/TRF09/TRF09_patrons7.jpg)
Hope that helps :D
I really like our camping spot by the wash because not that many folks could get behind us. Looks like those days are over. Oh well! We'll just have to put out the welcome mat and make the best of it!