which one would it be?
Personally I can't stand to make something without changing it up a little, but I can dream about making that exact copy.
(http://www.costumes.org/history/greatwomen/10340_08.jpg)
YUP that very one is on my wants too
(http://www.pemberley.com/janeinfo/2vladies.jpg)
(http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m5/BadDogNoBiskit/Email%20Pics/ottheinrich.jpg)
(http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m5/BadDogNoBiskit/Email%20Pics/o_01559a-OttheinrichKurfuerstVonDer.jpg)
I love playing Portrait Gowns! Thanks, DC!!
Right now I'm working on a recreation of the figure on the right. It's French/Flemish, c. 1520. AFAICT, not any particular personage:
(http://pic50.picturetrail.com/VOL417/1033223/19463764/312897494.jpg)
And I've given serious thought to Caravaggio's St. Catherine:
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c7/Michelangelo_Caravaggio_060.jpg/300px-Michelangelo_Caravaggio_060.jpg)
It's hard to see the detail in that version--but there's some beautiful gold trim down the front of the gown, and the camica is trimmed in blackwork and goldwork (swoon). See more here (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c7/Michelangelo_Caravaggio_060.jpg).
Last summer, I did this Botticelli:
(http://www.prestigepaintings.co.uk/bmz_cache/3/33f5afd0fd1d3873948c177b28c28b43.image.323x500.jpg)(http://pic50.picturetrail.com/VOL417/1033223/17691164/316520959.jpg)
(Still need to make the sleeves. The white caul looked *awful* on me. :))
There was a portrait posted on the other forums and when I saw it I thought Wow...I really love to have a gown that looks like that!!! Unfortunately, I didn't think about saving the picture, I can always go back and find it again right? So, now I have no way of finding it again. :'(
Lady Ann, if you can tell us what you remember about it (period, color, any details, etc), we can probably find it for you. We've got some pretty portrait-savvy members here!
Well...hmmm...I think there was a young boy in the picture with the woman (I'm not sure about that, I could be thinking of a different portrait), I believe he was standing to her right, or on the left side of the portrait.
One of the things I do remember and that I liked so much about the dress was the criss-crossed strips of material at the top of the bodice with pearls sewn at the points where the strips of material crossed.
Does that help???
Oh, that was too easy!
You seek Bronzino's portrait of Eleanora di Toledo with her son Giovanni di Medici
(http://www.nehelenia.de/Ye_Olde_Online_Shoppe/Renaissance_/Tudor_Mode/ELEONORA_DI_TOLEDO.JPG)
The criss-cross with pearls you refer to is her partlet, which is not actually part of the gown:
(http://pic50.picturetrail.com/VOL417/1033223/17480040/316525149.jpg)
I'm pretty sure Sealion has made an Italian caul using that method; you might ask her how she did it.
THAT'S IT!!!
Thanks Gem!!! :-*
OMG, I love that gown and I want one *just* like it!
*sigh*
Lady Ann- I knew exactly which portrait you were talking about as soon as I started reading the description! LOL
I haven't figured out the woven partlet and caul, yet. I've been studying dress diaries for ideas but it seems there are as many methods for making this as there are people who've tried it.
The next dress I am planning to make is the lady on the left in the medium green here:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v680/HappyStamper/img405.jpg)
I had Lady Oren make the white shoes and slippers for me (she did am amazing job!) Then I realized the wool I bought a few months back is this color so why not make the dress?
And someday, after I have a little more confidence in my sewing abilities to justify using the expensive fabric, I want to try this:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v680/HappyStamper/70789Marie-De-Medici-1573-1642-Wife.jpg)
Quote from: gem on May 08, 2008, 04:00:54 PM
Oh, that was too easy!
You seek Bronzino's portrait of Eleanora di Toledo with her son Giovanni di Medici
(http://www.nehelenia.de/Ye_Olde_Online_Shoppe/Renaissance_/Tudor_Mode/ELEONORA_DI_TOLEDO.JPG)
The criss-cross with pearls you refer to is her partlet, which is not actually part of the gown:
(http://pic50.picturetrail.com/VOL417/1033223/17480040/316525149.jpg)
I'm pretty sure Sealion has made an Italian caul using that method; you might ask her how she did it.
YES Another I love and would love to have
I definitely want to make Cranach's Saint Magdalene
(http://z.about.com/d/arthistory/1/7/F/Z/lce1107_12.jpg)
And at least one of the gowns from the Cluny tapestries and others in that category, like the one gem posted. I haven't picked which one yet, they're all so beautiful.
I love this painting "Portrait of a Florentine Noblewoman" that is part of the San Diego Museum of Art collection. I could stare at it for hours. I would love to be able to sew a copy, not for me, but for my daughter. She looks a bit like this noblewoman
(http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb26/calanthium/RenStuff/2floren14.jpg)
I've actually done this for a production of "Ruddigore" by Gilbert and Sullivan in 2002 (and I think the resembleance is astonishing)
(http://www.thedorsetpage.com/people/Images/Thomas%20Coram.jpg)
A protrait of Thomas Coram painted by Hogarth in the mid 18th century
(http://thumb8.webshots.net/t/69/469/7/99/2/2396799020078878788yUghWq_th.jpg)
Sir Mervyn Murgatroyd (one of the bad baronets of Ruddigore)
This is another one I'd love to do. It looks so comfortable.
(http://www.habsburg.net/typo3temp/pics/3eb24220a6.jpg)
Quote from: Athena on May 08, 2008, 02:16:50 PM
(http://www.pemberley.com/janeinfo/2vladies.jpg)
Oh! The red dress is lovely! I'd love to know more about the portrait. Anyone?
Quote from: gem on May 08, 2008, 03:08:15 PM
And I've given serious thought to Caravaggio's St. Catherine:
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c7/Michelangelo_Caravaggio_060.jpg/300px-Michelangelo_Caravaggio_060.jpg)
I'm basing my ren gown on that portrait this year, sort of. I can't do the blackwork, but I can get the basic shape and the fullness of the skirt, it's what I based one of my sketches on. Don't expect the portrait. I'm not nearly on par with most of you.
Quote from: Sorcha on May 09, 2008, 08:54:15 AM
Oh! The red dress is lovely! I'd love to know more about the portrait. Anyone?
Two Venetian Ladies by Vittore Carpaccio ca. late fifteenth or early sixteenth century
I agree with you Sorcha! I love that red gown!
(http://render1.snapfish.com/render2/is=Yup60Pn%7C%3Dup6RKKt%3AxxrKUp7BHD7KPfrj%3DQofrj7t%3DzrRfDUX%3AeQaQxg%3Dr%3F87KR6xqpxQQ0exnl0xaQ0xv8uOc5xQQQPlG0eQ0JGnqpfVtB%3F*KUp7BHSHqqy7XH6gXPP0%7CRup6JaQ%7C/of=50,294,443)
My daughter and I are planning on attempting this project if time allows this summer.
This is Sybil of Cleeves, the older sister of Anne of Cleeves briefly the German wife of Henry the VIII
Sadly we can't see the rest of this gown, but I'm sure I could do something that went well with the part we *can* see. Now I just gotta grow my hair out. This gown just looks fun!
(http://www.elizabethan-portraits.com/ElizabethBohemia.jpg)
Just in case anybody is interested: http://www.artchive.com/
You can search for an artist, time period, or area.
I'm not good enough at sewing to re-create a dress, but I aspire to.
Quote from: CapnFayeCutler on May 09, 2008, 07:43:55 PM
Sadly we can't see the rest of this gown, but I'm sure I could do something that went well with the part we *can* see. Now I just gotta grow my hair out. This gown just looks fun!
(http://www.elizabethan-portraits.com/ElizabethBohemia.jpg)
AH Elizabeth of Bohemia.... the bases for my daughter's new dress as the princess of Romania.
I am currently working on this project, I am using silver instead of gold so as soon as it is done I will post pics!
(http://www.marileecody.com/maryqos/maryqos1.jpg)
I have 10 yards of black cotton velveteen and 24 yards of cording and I will couch it down.
so I hope it will be awesome!
Cilean
Quote from: FaireMare on May 10, 2008, 12:24:37 AM
AH Elizabeth of Bohemia....
Exactly! I'm sure your daughter will be lovely in that kind of gown! :)
I think I'm drawn to it because of her hair just being wild and freeflowing... which kind of reminds me of the "Bohemian" look that was popular a year or two ago. (Which I still love hehehe)
Cilean, you should consult with Lady Kathleen of Olmstead; she's done a spot-on recreation of that exact portrait.
**
I have a new one! This is mostly in the realm of "Oh, god, wouldn't that be STUNNING?" than the realm of anything I'll actually ever *do,* but it's fun to imagine how it might be done.
Galizia's Judith (unfortunately, the biggest pic I could find online). Italian, c. 1590:
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/br/0/08/GaliziaJudith_with_the_head_of_Holofernes.jpeg)
Some details:
(http://pic50.picturetrail.com/VOL417/1033223/17480040/316755357.jpg) (http://pic50.picturetrail.com/VOL417/1033223/17480040/316755364.jpg) (http://pic50.picturetrail.com/VOL417/1033223/17480040/316755363.jpg)
Beyond the trim and the unbelievable beadwork on those straps, I am absolutely in love with that camica. SWOON!! Are we at all surprised this was painted by a woman? :D
Never gave it much thought til reading this thread. OMG I think I'm in love. Will have to research the perfect gown.
Quote from: gem on May 10, 2008, 01:21:17 PM
Cilean, you should consult with Lady Kathleen of Olmstead; she's done a spot-on recreation of that exact portrait.
**
I have a new one! This is mostly in the realm of "Oh, god, wouldn't that be STUNNING?" than the realm of anything I'll actually ever *do,* but it's fun to imagine how it might be done.
Galizia's Judith (unfortunately, the biggest pic I could find online). Italian, c. 1590:
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/br/0/08/GaliziaJudith_with_the_head_of_Holofernes.jpeg)
Is she holding someones head?
Yeah, it's Judith (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_of_Judith). She's always pictured holding the severed head of Holofernes. My other favorite Judith portrait is the one by Caravaggio (http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/41370000/jpg/_41370800_060224-rembrandt4.jpg). I just love the expression on her face--not horror, not fear, not rage or triumph... just a mild distaste, as if she's gutting a fish, not beheading her mortal enemy and saving the Israelites.
(http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:zOVP7_AH3oushM:http://blog.thelifer.com/up/t/th/blog.thelifer.com/img/.resized_tl_caravaggio_judith_beheading_ca103.jpg)
OMG gem! That is a gorgeous gown! Will you plese post the link to it?
Cin, it's Fede Galizia's Judith, which I just Googled until I found a decent image. I discovered the painting in--and took the detail shots from--a book I have here called Women Who Ruled (http://www.amazon.com/Women-Who-Ruled-Goddesses-Renaissance/dp/1858941660/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1210484775&sr=8-1) (you'll recognize a friend on the cover ;)).
But I *think* I got the image at Answers.com:
http://www.answers.com/topic/fede-galizia?cat=entertainment
Thanks gem! You've now given me an excuse to attempt a Venetian gown in blue instead of the typical red. lol
Cilean- Your image isn't showing up (red x). To which gown are you referring?
If anyone is interested, I have a few images of details of this (http://www.karen.htmlcreators.com/fleleonora.jpg) painting stashed away in My Pictures section of my computer. Somebody actually took these detail pictures of the painting while it was was part of an exhibit a few years ago. I won't post them publicly, but you can send me a private message and I will give you link(s).
One of the pictures just showed up on the slideshow screensaver which reminded me of their existance.
Also, since I intend to make a Florentine gown in a similar style someday, I have a webpage started with pictures and other references. Clicky here (http://www.karen.htmlcreators.com/florentine.html).
Outfits I have in progress that are supposed to look like the portrait that inspired the outfit. I have superhuge images of the portraits on my website, so I don't post the images on forums - just links to the appropriate page.
Anne of Austria, Queen of Spain (http://www.karen.htmlcreators.com/anneofaustria.html)
Henry VIII (http://www.karen.htmlcreators.com/tudorgentleman.html)
Now if Uncle Sam would just hurry up and put that stimulus money in my account so that I could buy the embroidery machine to start working on the Baron's Tudor.
I've found one Titian's portrait of Empress Isabella. I'll have to do something about the high neckline. Can't stand anything up around my neck. But what do you think?
(http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj29/teresaskinner/isabel.jpg)
Honestly, I would do the portrait of Lady Guildford.
(http://www.uvm.edu/~hag/sca/tudor/guildford.jpg)
I just love love love the chains and the pintucked foresleeves. So nifty!
Oh DonaCatalina- that is a dress for me! I have a vintage dark mink cape and I'm dying to use it on a dress. I think it would be STUNNING. :) :)
CountessofPhoenix, I was contemplating the same painting of Isabella just the other day, I adore that gown...
I also like this one of Jane Seymour... They are actually sort of similar, by way of color and relative simplicity to some of the other more heavily decorated gowns.
(http://images.onesite.com/ladyselwyn.renspace.com/janeseymore1537.jpg)
Who did you do Ruddigore for?! I help with the Houston Gilbert and Sullivan Society and was just curious...
- Kitty
Quote from: Sorcha on May 09, 2008, 08:54:15 AM
Quote from: Athena on May 08, 2008, 02:16:50 PM
*picture removed*
Oh! The red dress is lovely! I'd love to know more about the portrait. Anyone?
The painting is by Carpaccio, and was long referred to as "Two Venetian courtesans". This was because the women wears very elaborate costumes, and there are lots of hard-to-read iconography in the painting. There's a bold cut/closeness in the formate which is quite unusual for the period. Also, they're sitting on a balcony, looking bored, probably waiting for customers.
Or not... After the discovery of the painting (still in Venice) being a part of another Carpaccio painting; that of the "Hunting on the Lagoon" (in the USA), the context changed and it's now intepreted of being two noblewoman waiting for their husbands:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v31/operafantomet/renaissanceportraits/venezia1/carpaccio1480s2.jpg)
The cut and formate makes much more sense this way. It is also believed that the re-united paintings aboe makes 1/2 of a bigger composition, and that it was cut into four pieces so whoever owned it could make a bigger profit when selling it. The ladies are probably looking at something specific rather than staring blank/bored into the air. They are depicted in Venetian fashion ca. 1490-1510, with high-waisted dresses and slashed sleeves. The hairstyle is also very distinctive. Look up "Carpaccio" on the internet (for example www.wga.hu ), and you'll find lots of period garbs in his paintings. I agree that the red dress is gorgeous!
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v31/operafantomet/renaissanceportraits/venezia1/th_dorotheazacarias1505.jpg) (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v31/operafantomet/renaissanceportraits/venezia1/dorotheazacarias1505.jpg)(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v31/operafantomet/renaissanceportraits/venezia1/th_durer1495.jpg) (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v31/operafantomet/renaissanceportraits/venezia1/durer1495.jpg)(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v31/operafantomet/renaissanceportraits/venezia1/th_ca1500.jpg) (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v31/operafantomet/renaissanceportraits/venezia1/ca1500.jpg)(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v31/operafantomet/renaissanceportraits/venezia1/th_Carpaccio1510s.jpg) (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v31/operafantomet/renaissanceportraits/venezia1/Carpaccio1510s.jpg)(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v31/operafantomet/renaissanceportraits/venezia1/th_carpaccio1480s.jpg) (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v31/operafantomet/renaissanceportraits/venezia1/carpaccio1480s.jpg)
My next Renaissance project?
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v31/operafantomet/renaissanceportraits/firenze1/raphael1505.jpg)
Raphael's painting of "Lady with a Unicorn" (Previously "St. Catherine of Alexandria", until restored in 1936). The fabrics are so vibrant and tactile, and I love the simplicity in shape, cut and details. Plus, moss green and wine red? *swooooon*
OF, the what kills me on that dress are the velvet guards and the tiny tooled belt with the gold clasp (joins OF in a swoon)!
I'd love to do the Anne of Cleves portrait someday. It looks rather comfy.
(http://www.tudorplace.com.ar/images/Cleves,Anne01.jpg)
Done:
(http://i32.tinypic.com/ofsnde.jpg) (http://i28.tinypic.com/2lj46fo.jpg)
Me want:
(http://i30.tinypic.com/211tny1.jpg)
(http://i706.photobucket.com/albums/ww63/Multifarious_Depository/Circle_of_benson_st_cecilia-1.jpg)
I absolutely fell in love with this. I'm nowhere near being able to make this yet, but one day I will attempt it.
Quote from: Sagittarius Uisce Beatha on May 20, 2008, 10:09:33 AM
http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j247/Sagittarius_Uisce_Beatha/Circle_of_benson_st_cecilia-1.jpg
I absolutely fell in love with this. I'm nowhere near being able to make this yet, but one day I will attempt it.
Ooooh yes! The doublet (and overall style) actually remind me a lot of Jennifer Thompson's Bergamesque outfit: http://www.festiveattyre.com/gallery/moroni/index.html I would love to see that portrait recreated - I especially love the hematite (?) pearls.
Quote from: operafantomet on May 14, 2008, 02:47:48 AM
My next Renaissance project?
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v31/operafantomet/renaissanceportraits/firenze1/raphael1505.jpg
Raphael's painting of "Lady with a Unicorn" (Previously "St. Catherine of Alexandria", until restored in 1936). The fabrics are so vibrant and tactile, and I love the simplicity in shape, cut and details. Plus, moss green and wine red? *swooooon*
Quoting myself... this dress is soon-to-be finished! The bodice is finished, except the trims, and ditto for the sleeves. I'm attaching the skirt as we speak... Pics to come.
I'm more of a Working Class Women, and lately I've been leaning towards these two paintings. The seem to call to me. I'm sure slowly I'll start pulling together the fabric to and research to do them this winter for next year.
(http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa313/LOTOT/work1.jpg)
(http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa313/LOTOT/work14.jpg)
I love the colour scheme in that first one! And the apron of the second one. Campo shows some really interesting detail in the dresses he painted.
OMG!!!!!! Thank you so much for posting this pic. I had totally planned to do a Cranach style dress and this is the only image I have seen that does not require the black spiral lacing of the bottom with white behind that then has the yellow stripe over the upper torso that quite simply was going to kill my brain. I totally love and will be using this picture. Wow, my life just got a lot simpler since I really was going to have a hard time doing the spiral lacing correctly and accurately. If anyone has ever seen any good sites on how to do that particular style of garb, I would totally love the help.
Quote from: Mythrin on May 09, 2008, 04:39:35 PM
(http://render1.snapfish.com/render2/is=Yup60Pn%7C%3Dup6RKKt%3AxxrKUp7BHD7KPfrj%3DQofrj7t%3DzrRfDUX%3AeQaQxg%3Dr%3F87KR6xqpxQQ0exnl0xaQ0xv8uOc5xQQQPlG0eQ0JGnqpfVtB%3F*KUp7BHSHqqy7XH6gXPP0%7CRup6JaQ%7C/of=50,294,443)
My daughter and I are planning on attempting this project if time allows this summer.
This is Sybil of Cleeves, the older sister of Anne of Cleeves briefly the German wife of Henry the VIII
Quote from: amber_freya on June 01, 2008, 02:27:59 PM
OMG!!!!!! Thank you so much for posting this pic. I had totally planned to do a Cranach style dress and this is the only image I have seen that does not require the black spiral lacing of the bottom with white behind that then has the yellow stripe over the upper torso that quite simply was going to kill my brain. I totally love and will be using this picture. Wow, my life just got a lot simpler since I really was going to have a hard time doing the spiral lacing correctly and accurately.
Spiral lacing isn't hard. You can just off center each hole slightly from the other side and that's it. It's actually really easy to do if you are like me and hate measuring between each eyelet or lacing ring. :)
I'm currently working on http://www.elizabethan-portraits.com/ElenoraToledo4.jpg (http://www.elizabethan-portraits.com/ElenoraToledo4.jpg) this dress. The dress, itself, is done. I just need to finish the couching of the gold braid. That's taking forever. ;D
Sneak preview of the Unicorn dress.... Ssssh!
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v31/operafantomet/unicorn/th_unicorn9.jpg) (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v31/operafantomet/unicorn/unicorn9.jpg)
(sorry if this is the wrong place to post it... :-[ )
Quote from: isabelladangelo on June 01, 2008, 03:23:19 PM
I'm currently working on http://www.elizabethan-portraits.com/ElenoraToledo4.jpg (http://www.elizabethan-portraits.com/ElenoraToledo4.jpg) this dress. The dress, itself, is done. I just need to finish the couching of the gold braid. That's taking forever. ;D
Ooooh, I can't wait to see it! Probably way too late to tell this now, but there's an online fabric store who carries broad trims perfect for the mid/late Florentine fashion, and not too unlike that portrait:
http://www.hansson-silks.co.uk/embroideredborders2.html
Ever since seeing this image (http://www.npg.org.uk/live/woladygrey.asp) in National Geographic, I've wanted to do the dress from the supposed portrait of Jane Grey. I've found a pattern almost exactly like it, too.
Has anyone seen a full photo of the painting? I'd love to see the bottom of this dress....I'm guessing its just plain based on the bodice of the dress.
Good day all,
Lady Jayne
Quote from: jmkhalfmoon on June 02, 2008, 10:19:21 AM
Ever since seeing this image (http://www.npg.org.uk/live/woladygrey.asp) in National Geographic, I've wanted to do the dress from the supposed portrait of Jane Grey. I've found a pattern almost exactly like it, too.
Has anyone seen a full photo of the painting? I'd love to see the bottom of this dress....I'm guessing its just plain based on the bodice of the dress.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/spl/hi/pop_ups/06/entertainment_enl_1137508932/html/1.stm
There is a larger picture of the portrait at this site. The picture you have is the full picture of the portrait. It's very rare to have a full length portrait commisioned during the 16th c so, there isn't anyway to see the bottom of the dress. What you see is what you get.
However, one of the interesting things to note is the scarletwork on the sleeves. It's reminisent of this dress at:
http://www.elizabethan-portraits.com/TBBodenham.jpg
Thank you, I figured that is why there were no full length images of the painting anywhere. I love the redwork on the collar and cuffs. The use of red seems unique, I've really only noticed blackwork in most paintings.
On another note, there was a portrait at the Clark Museum in MA of a woman in a green dress. It was renaissance period (as I recall and I remember thinking it would be a good one to re-create), but the kids were being terrors so we had to make a quick exit and I don't recall the artist or the woman in the portrait. I could not find a picture of the painting on the museum's website. I've never seen an image of the painting online before. Does anyone know anything about this painting. I'd love to see it again. I emailed the museum about it a year ago, but got no response.
Many thanks,
Lady Jayne
One day...
(http://avenuedstereo.com/renaissance/hol_henry.jpg)
Sir Henry
There are many, but I do so love this gown.....
(http://i299.photobucket.com/albums/mm297/goodgirl73/09woman.jpg)
Quote from: jmkhalfmoon on June 02, 2008, 03:07:18 PM
Thank you, I figured that is why there were no full length images of the painting anywhere. I love the redwork on the collar and cuffs. The use of red seems unique, I've really only noticed blackwork in most paintings.
Nope. Scarletwork was actually very popular. It's just very hard to see online. Some examples include:
http://englishhistory.net/tudor/monarchs/maryage28.jpg
http://www.elizabethan-portraits.com/CatherineParr.jpg
and possibly http://www.elizabethan-portraits.com/Mary.jpg
Toward the middle of the 16th c, various colors started being used to the point that many polychrome chemises and shifts can be found later on.
I'm not sure about the green dress. can you remember a shape or style to it? About what year?
Oh, I am doing that one, too, Henry Sidney!
The only thing I am waiting on is the embroidery machine.
Quote from: jmkhalfmoon on June 02, 2008, 03:07:18 PM
Thank you, I figured that is why there were no full length images of the painting anywhere. I love the redwork on the collar and cuffs. The use of red seems unique, I've really only noticed blackwork in most paintings.
Although Italian, there are some redworked surviving chemises here:
http://realmofvenus.renaissanceitaly.net/workbox/extcam.htm
:)
Sir Henry, you'll look smashing! I dig that portrait and his outfit.
Thanks for the moral support! I did the embroidery for this image for a guildie of mine a couple of years ago. It was 95 stitchouts on my embroidery machine at 45 min each!
(http://www.sca.org.au/rapier/WS_images/Raleigh.jpg)
And here is how it turned out after the tailor took my work and put approx 3000 (yes, that is 3 thousand!) freshwater pearls on it:
(http://www.stgeorge-va.com/Images/ncrf2004/new/fullimages/P1220002_JPG_f.jpg)
The embroidery I can do, it is the time and talent for contruction that sometimes evade me.
Sir Henry
OMG!!!!!!!!!! That is amazing!!!!!!
*gaaaaasp*
Marry me?? ;D
Holy Toledo!
Huzzah Sir Henry!
I have about decided that this will be my next project for myself.
I may be bald headed by the time I get the French Hood made, so I expect lots of moral support.
(http://www.nationalgalleries.org/media_collection/6/NG%201930.jpg)
I have the materials Gathered for this gown, I just have to get up the nerve to start it.
Quote from: GirlChris on May 12, 2008, 06:09:06 PM
Honestly, I would do the portrait of Lady Guildford.
(http://www.uvm.edu/~hag/sca/tudor/guildford.jpg)
I just love love love the chains and the pintucked foresleeves. So nifty!
(http://www.elizabethan-portraits.com/Elizabeth22.jpg)
This is a recreation I have been wanting to do for some time. I can only assume that I am going to need a lot of 40% coupons to pull this off. Not to mention an Embroidery machine that can upload a Blackwork design from a disc.
You people all know that blackwork and other embroidery call all be done by hand, right? Ya don't need all that fancy modern technology.... ;)
True, but I think most of us would like to be done in under two years... ;D I will make the attempt this winter, when things die down a bit... ;)
There are those like me, gem, that have not done Embroidery since they were young girls.
Lady Rosalind is correct. Doing a gown from a portrait in 2 years time is doable with the aid of time, money, and modern technology. ;D
Lady Kathleen, email me. Did you know that I just bought a new Husqvarna embroidery machine that can do embroidery designs up to 14" x 12"? I can help you. ;)
I have a client who is thinking about having me make either that dress, or the Ditchley: http://www.marileecody.com/gloriana/elizabethditchley.jpg
*SWOON*
I'll be happy with either one. . . Now, if only I could talk her into letting me do both!
Andrea Solario's Head of John the Baptist: (http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z290/wattsupdoc/andrea.jpg)
Quote from: gem on June 09, 2008, 03:05:22 PM
You people all know that blackwork and other embroidery call all be done by hand, right? Ya don't need all that fancy modern technology.... ;)
I do my blackwork by hand. Great past time while watching TV/movies, but it sure would go faster with a machine.
Ah heck, why not! ;D
I am always looking for ideas about this dress, particularly color analysis and if you look closely, just below her bust at her waist, it looks as though there is a different fabric. I would welcome any input from anyone who is experienced in Italian gowns or who has made this before.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v244/stacybakri/PhotoMona-Lisadever_1913C.jpg)
This image was taken from this site: http://www.monalisarevealed.com/
The Mona Lisa! I had a grandmother who was crazy about it (and Leonardo da Vinci), and it seems I inherited her obsession...
I think if the painting was cleaned it would have a more even colour scale than above. The one above has "cleaned" the sky like the newly restored Ginevra de Benci, but the dress seems pretty unaltered, with only a light yellowing of the sleeves.
It looks like the gown is a full gown tied in the waist (rather than a tight-bodice-and-full-skirt) and it was a popular style in Tuscany. The neck opening has a fine golden embroidery which looks "allegorical", a sort of Vinci knot pattern which can also be seen in the "Lady with Ermine" portrait and the Sforzfa castle ceiling decorations (both in Milan).
VINCI KNOTS: http://www.emis.de/journals/NNJ/images_number1/Rosin01b.gif
THE DRESS EMBROIDERY: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v31/operafantomet/pisslei/monares4.jpg
ANOTHER DRESS WITH EMBROIDERY: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v31/operafantomet/pisslei/monasmock.jpg
SIMILAR DRESSES:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v31/operafantomet/renaissanceportraits/siena/pinturicchiosiena1509.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v31/operafantomet/renaissanceportraits/milano/luini1520s.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v31/operafantomet/renaissanceportraits/firenze1/bdgiovanni1488.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v31/operafantomet/renaissanceportraits/firenze1/bartolomeolucca1515b.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v31/operafantomet/renaissanceportraits/brescia/romanino1510brescia.jpg
The only striking "attribute" in the Mona Lisa painting is the embroidery on her dress, so the pattern of the embroidery has been intepreted in many, many ways. One reason for this is that Leonardo loved puns, according to his note books, and would often give a clue on the sitter in the motif (Galé= Cecilia Gallerani, Ginepro= Ginerva de Benci etc). He took a special interest in Vinci knot patterns. "Vinci" is a sort of decorative basket braiding, and also his last name. This (and other elements) has made many believe the painting might be a self portrait. Some link the pattern to different dynasties. I personally see the embroidery as fictional (cause it doesn't correspond with the dress pleats underneath), but I'm not sure what to think of why it was added and what it's supposed to mean.
If one use basic colour skills on the sky, it will give this conclution: the sky appears green, but the sky looks blue (if somewhat misty) in most other Leonardo painting. Granted the sky in the Mona Lisa painting once was blue as well, there must be a yellow vanish layer on top distorting the original colours. Blue + yellow = green, right? If the same applies to the dress, the sleeves would still be yellow, but not as dark as they are now, and the dress would not be in this muddy green-grey nuance, but have a bluer teint.
Leonardo da Vinci worked basically with three colours for female outfits; seagreenish blue, mustard/golden yellow and clear red. It can be seen in the "Lady with Ermine" painting, as well as various Madonnas:
LADY WITH ERMINE: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v31/operafantomet/renaissanceportraits/milano/ceciliagallerani.jpg
ANNOUNCIATION: http://www.artchive.com/artchive/l/leonardo/leonardo_annunc.jpg (this dress also remains a tad of the Mona Lisa)
MADONNA BENOIS: http://www.zeno.org/Kunstwerke.images/I/11k0085a.jpg
MADONNA OF THE CARNATION: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/8/8f/Madonna_of_the_carnation_EUR.jpg/300px-Madonna_of_the_carnation_EUR.jpg
MADONNA OF THE ROCKS: http://www.fotos.org/galeria/data/522/3Leonardo-Da-Vinci-Virgin-of-the-Rocks---London.jpg (London version)
It seems quite likely to me that the same colour scale (minus red) was used in the Mona Lisa. Whether it is because it was fashionable or Leonardo's favourite colours... have no idea. Red and blue are the traditional colours of the Madonna (blue reflecting her heavenly/celestial connections, and red emphasizing the grand emotions), so it's not an unusual choice per se. It also appears in other dresses of the era.
The sleeves on the dress seems to be tie-ons, with the chemise sleeves poking out at the shoulder. It was a very fashionable touch in Florence ca. 1480-1520 (and it also makes a comeback in the mid-1500's):
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v31/operafantomet/renaissanceportraits/firenze1/botticelli1475.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v31/operafantomet/renaissanceportraits/firenze1/raphael1506.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v31/operafantomet/renaissanceportraits/firenze1/sarto1513.jpg
Her dress is actually quite fashionable, but it's hard to spot it under 500 years of grease and dirt. The right shoulder and left sleeve is also covered by a transparent black shawl which distorts the view a bit, and makes the sleeves look larger than they are.
My quick sketch of the dress:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v31/operafantomet/pisslei/monalisaorange.jpg
(the sleeves should be narrower, and the neckline more square)
I hope this helped a bit... I'm not a 100% sure of what the colours and details are, but the dress can easily be placed within contemporary dress fashion (as I hope the examples above has shown). It's just so hard sometimes to look past her all-too-familiar face and the mentioned grease and dirt... :)
Operafantomet, your take is great! I have just been wondering what to do about the waist, is it tied, or is it constructed to be fitted. Of course ease of construction could win out on this one and I could just go with the tied waist. Honestly, this body dress could be made just like any chemise. How's THAT for ease! Thank you so much for your comments and insight. I've had much discussion amongst friends about how to best build this and I'm feeling much more confident now in the direction to go.
Actually, the Mona Lisa's outfit is a post-pregnancy gown. You can read all about it here:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/5384822.stm
You can see the same style here:
http://www.wga.hu/art/t/tiziano/10/1/06vanity.jpg
and here:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/ab/Alessandro_Botticelli_Portrait_of_a_Lady_%28Smeralda_Brandini_.jpg
There are variations on it through out the 16th c in Italy. It's non-restictive and looks to be worn with "short pair of bodies" beneath it normally.
operafantomet, great research! Well done!
WOW, operafan - amazing research! Thank you for sharing it here! :)
You never see anything this simple at Faire......but I love the color combination.
(http://ladysarafina.home.att.net/1550_Portrait_of_A_Lady_by_Agnolo_Bronzino.jpg)
I hadn't though about that, but you're right - that colour combo would be smashing!
I found the opposite - a portrait that matched my garb. (see my icon)
(http://i37.tinypic.com/xlmdd0.jpg)
Now I need those sleeves! :D
Quote from: DonaCatalina on September 16, 2008, 01:44:23 PM
You never see anything this simple at Faire......but I love the color combination.
He he, I love this color combo, which is why I use it! http://www.renaissancefestival.com/forums/index.php?topic=3212.15 (http://www.renaissancefestival.com/forums/index.php?topic=3212.15) - Photos from Celtic Lady, from DMRF this year, second pic.
I really love this painting! I may have to make something similar!
Quote from: Lady Rosalind on September 29, 2008, 03:17:23 PM
Quote from: DonaCatalina on September 16, 2008, 01:44:23 PM
You never see anything this simple at Faire......but I love the color combination.
He he, I love this color combo, which is why I use it! http://www.renaissancefestival.com/forums/index.php?topic=3212.15 (http://www.renaissancefestival.com/forums/index.php?topic=3212.15) - Photos from Celtic Lady, from DMRF this year, second pic.
Oh, your colour combo really is close! Very gorgeous colours, especially together.
And Artemisia, I agree about the painting. Your dress is rather similar! These sleeves: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v31/operafantomet/renaissanceportraits/venezia2/bonveronese1540s.jpg reminds a lot of yours, so those two paintings combined = your dress. :)
I want a stripy 1530's Veneto dress!
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v31/operafantomet/renaissanceportraits/venezia1/th_bordone1530s1.jpg) (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v31/operafantomet/renaissanceportraits/venezia1/bordone1530s1.jpg)(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v31/operafantomet/renaissanceportraits/venezia2/th_bonveronese1530sb.jpg) (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v31/operafantomet/renaissanceportraits/venezia2/bonveronese1530sb.jpg)(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v31/operafantomet/renaissanceportraits/venezia2/th_tizian1537.jpg) (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v31/operafantomet/renaissanceportraits/venezia2/tizian1537.jpg)(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v31/operafantomet/renaissanceportraits/brescia/th_morettobrescia1530s2.jpg) (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v31/operafantomet/renaissanceportraits/brescia/morettobrescia1530s2.jpg)
Quote from: Lady Rosalind on June 09, 2008, 04:12:42 PM
True, but I think most of us would like to be done in under two years... ;D I will make the attempt this winter, when things die down a bit... ;)
I
have carpal tonal syndrome, I choose not to have surgery so no doing the loads of embroidery with my hands? Not going to happen, it is the reason I have my Designer SE, while I know you don't need the highest end machine? I have it because it fit the needs of my sewing, for what I wanted to do next. I am now thinking about upgrading to the Diamond because of the awesome expanse of the embroidery hoop, the down size is the embroidery feature is now always on your machine. It is HUGE, and I like having mine separate. So now I am in a ponder about the upgrade but I can tell you? I adore ADORE my Designer SE goes through 8 thicknesses of fabric easily and only kavetches a little! LOL
I love designing and creating historical designs and then doing them on my garb! I have a bunch of Celtic Knotwork I plan on doing on several of my son's clothing. He has a cloak I want to embroider the heck out of and I can do this in 1 to 2 afternoons not my entire life. I do beadwork and it is easier for my hands for some reason but even that I must go slowly. For me? I am goal oriented, I want the garb to wear!! Sometime in my life! So my machine makes my imagination soar!
Cilean
I wouldn't be able to do this amount of embroidery by hand.
(http://www.elizabethan-portraits.com/ElenoraToledo2.jpg)
If I could find a machine capable of this density, I would give it a try.
What about colouring a cut-out trim or lace? (similar to the trim on Eleonora di Toledo's funeral dress). Could give a funky result, with less work. :)
I am going to be doing the Pelican Portrait for a friend of mine. I have shopped for the main fabric of the gown, a lovely Brick Red Cotton Velveteen. The emerald jewels I will need to order from Sapphire & Sage to sew onto the gown. There will be a lot of them. I have what I need to make a corset, Bumroll, Farthingale, Drawers, Chemise, ruffs, etc.
When I was at Bristol last month, I did find a brooch tht resembled the Pelican in the portrait. Not an exact replica, but mighty close.
I have pearls yet to order as well as a few more things. I will post photos in the Progress thread as I progress.
(http://www.liverpoolmuseums.org.uk/walker/collections/graphics/large/er1.jpg)
I absolutely love everything about this portrait
(http://i706.photobucket.com/albums/ww63/Multifarious_Depository/Catherine_Parr.jpg)
Sagittarius Uisce Beatha, I also adore that portrait. I've been meaning to make fur lining for my dress that's simliar to that for a very long time to match this portraits...
Lady Kathleen, I am so insanely jealous of this "friend" of yours. I adore this portriat of Elizabeth, it's one of my favorite outfits of hers because of the detail in the partlet and the very large gems. I wish you luck in your grand pursuit, I hope it comes out wonderfully! PLease do post pics!!
Quote from: Sagittarius Uisce Beatha on October 06, 2008, 10:46:31 PM
I absolutely love everything about this portrait
(http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j247/Sagittarius_Uisce_Beatha/Catherine_Parr.jpg)
I feel so blessed as Lady Kathleen made me a dress based on this one, just done in burgandy red's golds and a deep brown fur. When I wear it, people at CoRF think I am the queen. I know I feel like one.
I wouldn't mind a 2nd in the tans and red's with ermine fur.
Thank you Lady Elizabeth. The gown is questiuon will be part of the front and back cover for a Historical novel my friend is writing on the life of Queen Elizabeth from the time she was a child to her dying day. She is going more for the psychological aspect as to how the reign of her father, King Henry VIII, influenced her life, attitudes towards men and marriage, relationships with her Father's other wives, etc. The novel will contain actual conversations conducted during that time. It's going to read like a James Michner epic fillwed with historical context in a novel format.
AS for the Catherine Parr portrait, I used that portrait to base a Tudor ensemble for Lady De Laney earlier this summer...
(http://thumb9.webshots.net/t/69/469/6/58/78/2952658780025619629paSLki_th.jpg) (http://home-and-garden.webshots.com/photo/2952658780025619629paSLki) Showing the neckline detail and that of the French Hood.
(http://thumb9.webshots.net/t/50/650/1/24/68/2129124680025619629rDmbBq_th.jpg) (http://home-and-garden.webshots.com/photo/2129124680025619629rDmbBq) The Front View. Simpler lines of the Tudor Period.
(http://thumb9.webshots.net/t/50/650/8/49/8/2664849080025619629GEtxBf_th.jpg) (http://home-and-garden.webshots.com/photo/2664849080025619629GEtxBf) Side view showing more of the fur oversleeves. The Undersleeves attach via ribbon to the inside.
The jewels around the neckline and French Hood were ordered from Sapphire & Sage. I just ordered a ton more in Emerald and Gold for the Pelican Gown. Some in Ruby as well. It ws the closest I could find that would look best against the Brick Red of the Pelican Gown.
That sounds like an excellent novel, and one I would very much like to read. I've read 2 biographies on her thus far, but a James Michtner style epic would be a lovely change! If u could let me know when it comes out and the name I'd be quite grateful!
The inverse coloring on the Lady Jane Grey portrait is quite stunning. I can understand why Lady De Laney would feel like the queen... even if it was for only 9 days... haha.
Quote from: LadyElizabeth on October 07, 2008, 02:20:20 PM
That sounds like an excellent novel, and one I would very much like to read. I've read 2 biographies on her thus far, but a James Michtner style epic would be a lovely change! If u could let me know when it comes out and the name I'd be quite grateful!
The inverse coloring on the Lady Jane Grey portrait is quite stunning. I can understand why Lady De Laney would feel like the queen... even if it was for only 9 days... haha.
But, I never wanted to be the Queen, That was for Mary after good King Edward died. But that Evil Northumberland and my over ambitios family made me do it. I never wanted to be the queen Honestly
Of course you didn't, you were a slave to mens and family ambition, but I do think you are a very intelligent woman and therefore also inherently ambitious in part...
Hello Everyone,
So I have found another portrait I would like to bring to life
(http://elizabethangeek.com/costumereview/images/104.jpg)
Now the funny thing is I don't want to do QEI's gown, but her lady in waiting sitting the forefront of the picture on the left side I want the blue one! Notice all of the ladies are wearing coifs done in red? I would also like to do the QEI gown sometime in the future but I really like the lines of these gowns and how they are portrayed!
Here is what I am working on for my Hubby in black corduroy and warm grey flannel as the lining material.
(http://elizabethangeek.com/costumereview/images/33.jpg)
Cilean
Quote from: Cilean on October 20, 2008, 02:54:10 PM
Here is what I am working on for my Hubby in black corduroy and warm grey flannel as the lining material.
(http://elizabethangeek.com/costumereview/images/33.jpg)
Cilean
Which one? the long or short one?
>> Which one? the long or short one? <<
Sorry!! The Long Gabardine with the sleeves, I am going to put some faux fur at the cuffs I think it will lend some nice panache!
and I forgot this one as well. I have so many in the mix I could make clothing for the next 6 years and still would want to make yet more
LOL I am a Garb Fiend! Okay here is one I really want to do as well
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:Called_Christina_of_Denmark_Dowager-Duchess_of_Milan_and_Lorraine_1568-72.jpg (http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:Called_Christina_of_Denmark_Dowager-Duchess_of_Milan_and_Lorraine_1568-72.jpg)
I am currently collecting trim that is out now (Thank you Cheaptrims) and I will have 40 or so yards to really make this outfit POP!
Cilean
OI, that's a lot of trim! Wow...
That's on my list also
WOW!!!!
What a stunning portrait!!!
I have been wanting to do a Doublet gown esnemble for some time. The chemise looks to be a Silk Organza. LOVELY!!!
I had no idea that nobles ever had sleeves in silk organza or any kind of see-thru material... That is one absolutley stunning gown and just SO very unique!
Most sheer material was worn over a patterned sleeve. I can think of only two noble English/French/ Spanish Elizabethan paintings that show sheer sleeves. The above being one, and the other was .... I can't find the link, but it was worn over a shift sleeve.
I am loving those sheer sleeves. They would be so nice in hot weather. Adding that one to the list of gowns to make!
well, it's not a portrait... not even sure how authentic it would be... but it looks cool
(http://www.noos.org/mecs/joseph/jseph1.jpg)
Mine would be The Accolade, for sure. I read somewhere that it would pretty much be impossible to make it exactly like the dress in the painting though.
Doublet,
I really like that Doublet. I am a leather kind of person and it really is cool looking. ;)
Quote from: Bugsey on November 04, 2008, 07:44:51 PM
Mine would be The Accolade, for sure. I read somewhere that it would pretty much be impossible to make it exactly like the dress in the painting though.
(http://www.revilo-oliver.com/Kevin-Strom-personal/Art/BlairLeighton_TheAccolade.jpg)
Oh the dress could be made. Lady Amalia does them all the time. But it would only look like this on someone who is nearly anorexic.
(http://i36.tinypic.com/2rze3av.jpg) (http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=2rze3av&s=4)
http://www.frick.org/assets/PDFs/Press_2008/antea.extended.pdf
Not the greatest gown but something about it makes me want it. Maybe it's the apron.
Quote from: operafantomet on May 14, 2008, 02:47:48 AM
My next Renaissance project?
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v31/operafantomet/renaissanceportraits/firenze1/raphael1505.jpg)
Raphael's painting of "Lady with a Unicorn" (Previously "St. Catherine of Alexandria", until restored in 1936). The fabrics are so vibrant and tactile, and I love the simplicity in shape, cut and details. Plus, moss green and wine red? *swooooon*
I have been pouring over that image for two weeks! I have a Museum Replicas gown I scored on Ebay a few years ago that I want to make sleeves for, just like the ones in that painting. I love the necklace just as much as the gown!!!
I've (basically) finished this dress now. It can be seen here:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v31/operafantomet/unicorn/th_unicornchi7.jpg) (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v31/operafantomet/unicorn/unicornchi7.jpg)(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v31/operafantomet/unicorn/th_unicornchi10.jpg) (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v31/operafantomet/unicorn/unicornchi10.jpg)
To my big surprise, the museum where the portrait is today (Villa Borghese in Rome) has started making replicas of the jewellery for commercial sale. I really wanted to buy it, but it was a tad expensive. Plus, it was smaller than the portrait one, so it wouldn't be perfect anyway. Many museums I visited (I've just spent a month in Italy) had such replica jewellery for sale. Seems like the hottest souvenir thing these days! ETA: photo:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v31/operafantomet/th_unicornjewel.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v31/operafantomet/unicornjewel.jpg)
Excellent job operafantomet!! You look so lovely in it as well, very much like the beautiful woman in the portrait, minus blonde hair that is!
Very Beautiful Operafantomet
I've just found a new one I really want to do.
(http://z.about.com/d/dc/1/0/g/6/FONTANA.jpg)
Portrait of a Noblewoman of Bologna, Italy, by Lavinia Fontana ca. 1580.
Can anyone say exactly how authentic that leather doublet outfit is from Shakespeare in love because that is one of the hottest outfit ever on a guy!!!
(http://www.24hourmuseum.org.uk/content/images/2007_4130.jpg)
(http://www.noos.org/mecs/joseph/jseph1.jpg)
Quote from: LadyElizabeth on February 13, 2009, 11:21:22 AM
Can anyone say exactly how authentic that leather doublet outfit is from Shakespeare in love because that is one of the hottest outfit ever on a guy!!!
If you have the "Patterns of Fashion ca.1560-1620", there are various pics of extant garbs in the front, also some padded and slashed doublets that reminds of the one in question.
There's especially one at page 21 (item 126) that reminds a lot. Description reads: "Padded and embroidered leather doublet (...) with sleeves and a padded peascod belly. It fastens with lacing by the double row of buttons at the front and is closed below, opening at the back seams c. 1585-95. Metropolitan Museum of Art, New York."
I would like to copy this one, but in greens and tans:
(http://i592.photobucket.com/albums/tt9/redkimba_photo/elizawhitehalltudorperiod.jpg)
Kimberly
Not Renaissance, but historical nonetheless.. The Duchess of Devonshire.
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/08/Thomas_Gainsborough_Lady_Georgiana_Cavendish.jpg/384px-Thomas_Gainsborough_Lady_Georgiana_Cavendish.jpg)
The Hat she wears in this Gainsborough portrait was one of the most popular styles in the 18th Century. The Duchess was a clothes horse so to speak. Whatever she wore, she set off fashion trends for the rest of upper English Society and Nobility.
(http://www.terminartors.com/image/image_gallery_fs?img_id=painting.1017117&img_size=130x130)
You can see a larger version of this painting AMBERGER, Christoph
Portrait of a Young Woman
after 1548
at the web gallery of Aart.
I really am intrigued by the beaded hair net.
http://www.wga.hu/index1.html
Want.the.Gainesborough.hat. How much false hair (weave) do you think this babe is wearing?
I can barely sew. But if I had infinite time, infinite skill, and I knew that I could pull off something that only HRH QEI could probably ever get away with, it would be The Hardwick Portrait:
(http://www.midnightferret.com/images/elizabethhardwick.jpg)
I mean, sea monsters! Sea monsters, I tell you!
Quote from: midnightferret on March 26, 2009, 01:08:28 AM
I can barely sew. But if I had infinite time, infinite skill, and I knew that I could pull off something that only HRH QEI could probably ever get away with, it would be The Hardwick Portrait:
(http://www.midnightferret.com/images/elizabethhardwick.jpg)
I mean, sea monsters! Sea monsters, I tell you!
The forepart is amazing! But I often wonder if it really looked like that or did the artist take liberties (maybe even at the sitters request)?! ;)
Quote from: Dinobabe on March 26, 2009, 11:17:24 AM
Quote from: midnightferret on March 26, 2009, 01:08:28 AM
I can barely sew. But if I had infinite time, infinite skill, and I knew that I could pull off something that only HRH QEI could probably ever get away with, it would be The Hardwick Portrait:
(http://www.midnightferret.com/images/elizabethhardwick.jpg)
I mean, sea monsters! Sea monsters, I tell you!
The forepart is amazing! But I often wonder if it really looked like that or did the artist take liberties (maybe even at the sitters request)?! ;)
The Petticoat or Forepart for this gown, according to Janet Arnold's ELIZABETH'S WARDROBE UNLOCKED, the peticoat was said to have been embroidered on White Silk by the Countess of Shrewsbury for the 1597 portrait.
Talk about having a lot of time on one's hands!!!!
You know what I find interesting, the Countess of Shrewsbury was actually the person who jailed Mary Queen of Scots. They actually would talk and hang out together, so I've always pictured the Countess embroidering this beautiful forepart for Queen Elizabeth while sitting next to her arch-enemy (of sorts) Queen Mary of Scotland.
My thought on this is somewhat related: I have read books about how a noble lady would ostensibly be embroidering a project, but that her maids, friends, sisters, etc would help. I mean, it's true that as a woman you really didn't have a lot of stuff to do, especially if you were a noble and didn't have things like chores. (Unless you were QEI and had to run the country.) Still, I would think that you would need help to embroider a big forepart like that by hand.
So do you think Queen Mary helped? That would be even weirder!
Quote from: LadyElizabeth on March 26, 2009, 12:03:21 PM
You know what I find interesting, the Countess of Shrewsbury was actually the person who jailed Mary Queen of Scots. They actually would talk and hang out together, so I've always pictured the Countess embroidering this beautiful forepart for Queen Elizabeth while sitting next to her arch-enemy (of sorts) Queen Mary of Scotland.
I have seen a bit of discussion and research about this forpart. Even tho it was more common to have your gown sewn with embroidery, they did employ a painting technique or staining the fabric. I am leaning towards that thought myself. If you will look at the shiny spots especially near the hem, many of them cross the figures. If they were embroidered then they would not shiny the same as the "satin" shines. With all the other attention to all the other textural details, I would not think he would have over looked a sewn vs painted effect. I also agree with the way of thinking that the top figures are the artist trying to make it look nice. It has also been suggested that this could have been the fabric itself. I personally don't think that would be the case. The weaving of the time was very fine, but I do not think they had the skill or technology to produces such fine details in satin. Look at tapestry, they are detailed, but not so sharply detailed.
We know that people did use animals and other allegorical figures on gowns, so this could be a true possibility.
Anyone have a time machine so we can check it out?????
My sister read a biography on the Countess of Shrewsbury since she plays her at the faires and she's always told me she embroidered this... Of course the idea of it being painted on it quite interesting... I've never heard that suggested!! I definitely agree that it's not a weave since that fine of detail wasn't really there.
Not really adding anything to the "embroidered VS painted" pondering... But have y'all seen this recreation by Ninya Mikhaila?
http://www.kissthefrog.co.uk/queen.html
She/her workshop went for a painted front, and it looks quite awesome.
Quote from: Taffy Saltwater on March 25, 2009, 10:30:59 PM
Want.the.Gainesborough.hat. How much false hair (weave) do you think this babe is wearing?
All of it? ;D
Quote from: operafantomet on March 27, 2009, 12:41:07 AM
Not really adding anything to the "embroidered VS painted" pondering... But have y'all seen this recreation by Ninya Mikhaila?
http://www.kissthefrog.co.uk/queen.html
She/her workshop went for a painted front, and it looks quite awesome.
I kept the National Trust magazine article about this being made a few years back. Ninya's research did seem to point towards it having been painted. Must look out the details...
I go to her website, just to drool.... :o
Incidentally, it's interesting to read all the different discussions of this portrait that are available. The professor said in my 16th c art class that this portrait was painted by Nicholas Hilliard and that Elizabeth Hardwick, Countess of Shrewsbury, embroidered the forepart. But of course, this is academia, and nothing is that cut-and-dried, so you get researchers who say that the painter might NOT have been Hilliard (or his crew), and there is evidence that the forepart might have been painted instead of embroidered. I don't know if we'll ever *really* find out, but that painted recreation was truly stunning. Good stuff!
I agree, that painted recreation is quite amazing! Do you know what kind of paint they used on that? Is it washable or drycleanable?
Quote from: midnightferret on March 27, 2009, 08:31:29 AM
Incidentally, it's interesting to read all the different discussions of this portrait that are available. The professor said in my 16th c art class that this portrait was painted by Nicholas Hilliard and that Elizabeth Hardwick, Countess of Shrewsbury, embroidered the forepart. But of course, this is academia, and nothing is that cut-and-dried, so you get researchers who say that the painter might NOT have been Hilliard (or his crew), and there is evidence that the forepart might have been painted instead of embroidered. I don't know if we'll ever *really* find out, but that painted recreation was truly stunning. Good stuff!
Problem with (art history) academia dealing with historical clothing is that once a truth has been established, it takes decades to get rid of it. I'm working on a MA in art history now, and I won't even start to tell you all the times I've come across otherwise brilliant Bronzino researchers claiming that Eleonora di Toledo was buried in her famous 1545 dress ( http://www.geocities.com/pisslei/eleonoraditoledo )... It's enough for one researcher to claim such a "truth", and once established it will be quoted over and over again, and newer researchers will quote one who quotes one who quotes one etc...
Not saying the statement about the embroidery isn't true! I have no idea. But it can also be that one brainbox with good imagination in the 19.th century wrote a plausible theory on it, and that it's become one of those things others just quote, because they've read it somewhere, sometime...
In response to the comment that weaving techniques in the Renaissance weren't that
sophisticated.
As the Marquesa de Villafranca, Eleonora de Toledo's dowry included revenues from textile manufacturing in the district. Many of her dresses are estimated to be products of that industry and include woven and embroidered fabrics.
(http://farm1.static.flickr.com/153/359053929_43b47d1315.jpg?v=0)
My words were may have been mis-understood.
"The weaving of the time was very fine, but I do not think they had the skill or technology to produces such fine details in satin. Look at tapestry, they are detailed, but not so sharply detailed. "
There are many wonderful examples of detailed woven fabrics. Most fabric are in the floral and geometric patterns. There are others with animal and human, from that "medieval" era. I was stating that I do not believe they could do that fine of work in the satin weaving.
One of the things we tend to forget these days is just how good those weavers were. They produced stuff on hand looms that we still cannot imitate with our fancy electronics! ;D
Having seen some of the old textiles in places like the V&A and the Museum of London, I wouldn't rule out anything... Some of the satin brocades from China are incredibly intricate and detailed, even from so long ago. We have lost a lot of the knowledge that went into the making of some of these textiles.
Quote from: Kate XXXXXX on April 01, 2009, 03:01:58 AM
Having seen some of the old textiles in places like the V&A and the Museum of London, I wouldn't rule out anything... Some of the satin brocades from China are incredibly intricate and detailed, even from so long ago. We have lost a lot of the knowledge that went into the making of some of these textiles.
We've also lost the crazy rich people who were willing to pay for them... ;)
Quote from: operafantomet on April 02, 2009, 02:04:16 PM
Quote from: Kate XXXXXX on April 01, 2009, 03:01:58 AM
Having seen some of the old textiles in places like the V&A and the Museum of London, I wouldn't rule out anything... Some of the satin brocades from China are incredibly intricate and detailed, even from so long ago. We have lost a lot of the knowledge that went into the making of some of these textiles.
We've also lost the crazy rich people who were willing to pay for them... ;)
And most of the folk willing to work at intricate handwork like this for all the daylight hours if the year for 40 years...
I do know where to find the folk who STILL do nothing but hand stitch buttonholes for west end tailors. Mad... ;)
I do digress, and acknowledge that that fine of weaving May have been possible. To the gown in question, I still hold that it was stained/painted. Yes, the Asian art's were amazing, but they were less known in the English parts.
As it has been stated, many of the technique and knowledge is, sadly, lost to us.
I just stumbled across this portrait (http://imagencpd.aut.org/4DPict?file=20&rec=18.028&field=2) and I'm in LOOOOVE with the simplicity and elegance of her bodice contrasted with the fine cuttes on the sleeves. It's a Bronzino ("young woman with a prayer book" or something like that)...I have some rust colored fabric that might work for a recreation of that gown...
AND if I were a man, I'd just JUMP at the chance to make this for myself: another Bronzino (http://free1090.blogspot.com/2008/07/bronzino-agnolo-portrait-of-young-man.html) (Portrait of a young man). Again, so simple, yet so complex!
BUT I have to finish my repro Ditchley Portrait (http://www.myfairelady.com/?page_id=20) gown first...it's been ages...and I'm still working on those damned poufs...
Quote from: mollymishap on April 11, 2009, 09:02:00 AM
I just stumbled across this portrait (http://imagencpd.aut.org/4DPict?file=20&rec=18.028&field=2) and I'm in LOOOOVE with the simplicity and elegance of her bodice contrasted with the fine cuttes on the sleeves. It's a Bronzino ("young woman with a prayer book" or something like that)...I have some rust colored fabric that might work for a recreation of that gown...
(http://www.erasofelegance.com/arts/gallery/bronzino/bronzino5.jpg)
I agree that this would make a lovely dress. The contrasting trim and all the slashing make this a standout.
I'm not often tempted to make exact copied of things (I prefer to use them for inspiration and have more design input myself, but that's just a personal preference), but I might make an exception for that one... I've seen some pewter coloured silk taffeta recently that would be perfect...
And you kick yourself in the bum, Kate, if you do not snatch up that Silk Taffeta while it is available!!
Nah, Joel & Son, Pongee's, Beresford Silk, Henry Bertrand, or one of the others will have something similar... There are advantages to living this close to London, and having a telephone! ;D Costs and arm and a leg, mind, but hey, for such a project I could save up...
Quote from: PrincessSara on November 04, 2008, 05:31:56 PM
I am loving those sheer sleeves. They would be so nice in hot weather. Adding that one to the list of gowns to make!
I found some gorgeous sheer material for a partlet, lightly embroidered with vines and purple flowers. A blessing on hot fair days!
Quote from: chelamarie on April 12, 2009, 04:51:28 PM
http://homepages.wmich.edu/~rowen/renbk/ghirlandaio2.jpg
This painting is one by Domenico Ghirlandaio-- it's part of The Birth of Saint John the Baptist, I believe. I love the pink gown on the far left. I think those are flowers? It's stunning, whatever they are. I have zero sewing skill (my grandma had to make my current costume haha) but if I did...
I have a slightly bigger picture online, here:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v31/operafantomet/renaissanceportraits/firenze1/ghirlandaio1486f.jpg
The "flowers" at the side looks similar to decorations Burgundian Houppelandes could have on the sleeves, like here:
http://www.geocities.com/soho/coffeehouse/6572/houppelande.jpg
http://www.hobbitronics.com/images/womens/houppenande-02.jpg
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_cpToIwY89Rc/SWEi6VEy9MI/AAAAAAAABH8/h0g5M3OsQ50/s1600-h/houppelande.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f7/415px-Houppelande_damski.jpg
I think it's merely fabric cut into various shapes (in your case, "flowers"). It might not be hard to make, but it looks like a time-consuming task. :o
Wouldn't this partlet be fun to make?
Catherine of Lorraine ca. 1570
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3071/3081737846_49292fbe00.jpg?v=0)
I would love to see a reproduction of this partlet indeed!! I've thought of doing one similar in the past, I might one day...
Interesting idea, that.
Hm...
First question: Which side of the fabric would one put the pearls?
Second question: Why does she look like Data? ;)
Not quite sure where to put it, so...
http://realmofvenus.renaissanceitaly.net/yourgarb/2009/Isabella.htm
Isabella d'Angelo's lovely Eleonora di Toledo dress is now a featured attire at Realm of Venus! (and reason why I post it here, is that the dress is based on a Bronzino portrait...)
Does the inspiration have to be from a portrait?
This is my current dream list - Some are portraits, some are modern photos
p.s. It's becoming obvious that I must begin work on a high-necked bodice project ASAP :P
<insert garb porn here>
(http://www.needlewoman.org/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/158x_11.jpg) (http://www.needlewoman.org/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/2608153300_505939bdcf1.jpg) (http://www.needlewoman.org/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/bluedress1.jpg)
(http://www.needlewoman.org/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/blacksilverdoublet1.jpg) (http://www.needlewoman.org/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/creambodicecloseup1.jpg) (http://www.needlewoman.org/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/0000038761_200703271622321.jpg)
(http://www.needlewoman.org/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/cap0031.jpg) (http://www.needlewoman.org/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/cap0041.jpg)
(http://www.needlewoman.org/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/epping-2-000061.jpg) (http://www.needlewoman.org/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/marytudor_best1.jpg) (http://www.needlewoman.org/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/venetian-half-front-full-length-cropped1.jpg)
The Tudors - Henry's Hunting doublet (I got out of bed in the middle of the night to draw this so I could remember what it looked like - I finally found some pictures)
(http://www.needlewoman.org/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/gw180h338.jpg) (http://www.needlewoman.org/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/gw420h549.jpg) (http://www.needlewoman.org/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/gw218h331.jpg)
If you right-click any of the images above and go to 'view image' it will show you the image in full size - I shrunk them to save space on this page.
Quote from: Tixi on May 15, 2009, 08:54:51 AM
(http://www.needlewoman.org/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/bluedress1.jpg)
That is going to get me my Laurel one day. *drools*
ELIZABETH R :).....one of my FAVES for garb drooling. :o So many beautiful gowns to make and so little time.... :(
Quote from: Artemisia on June 09, 2009, 09:04:56 AM
Quote from: Tixi on May 15, 2009, 08:54:51 AM
(http://www.needlewoman.org/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/bluedress1.jpg)
That is going to get me my Laurel one day. *drools*
That one is on my "someday" list, too. Cuz, hey, anything blue catches my eye! lol
Quote from: sealion on May 08, 2008, 04:49:42 PM
Lady Ann- I knew exactly which portrait you were talking about as soon as I started reading the description! LOL
I haven't figured out the woven partlet and caul, yet. I've been studying dress diaries for ideas but it seems there are as many methods for making this as there are people who've tried it.
The next dress I am planning to make is the lady on the left in the medium green here:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v680/HappyStamper/img405.jpg)
I had Lady Oren make the white shoes and slippers for me (she did am amazing job!) Then I realized the wool I bought a few months back is this color so why not make the dress?
And someday, after I have a little more confidence in my sewing abilities to justify using the expensive fabric, I want to try this:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v680/HappyStamper/70789Marie-De-Medici-1573-1642-Wife.jpg)
I might actually get started on that green dress soon. I was planning to wait until fall but might move it up on the "to-do" list and do it as my Margo'd Iron Dress entry.
This would be mine... it's just so UNUSUAL! (https://www.1st-art-gallery.com/thumbnail/98984/1/Portrait-Of-A-Lady-$28possibly-Countessa-Lucia-Albani-Avogadro$29-1557-60.jpg)
I love the simplicity of that one.
Quote from: Tixi on May 15, 2009, 08:54:51 AM
Does the inspiration have to be from a portrait?
This is my current dream list - Some are portraits, some are modern photos
p.s. It's becoming obvious that I must begin work on a high-necked bodice project ASAP :P
<insert garb porn here>
...
(http://www.needlewoman.org/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/venetian-half-front-full-length-cropped1.jpg)
...
:o BUT--that's ME!!!
I don't know how I missed this earlier. Thanks for the compliment, Tixi! It's an honor to be listed among such outstanding work! ;D
Okay, so in reading the "Other Boleyn" thread... this imagine came up.
(http://www.tate.org.uk/britain/exhibitions/holbein/images/works/holbein_annecresacre.jpg)
and I don't know... I just love it... even in the sketch form. I'd like to do this one, in the greys and blacks with the touch of yellow. How lovely would that be?
Meg, I totally LOVE that idea!
You know what I just noticed about that picture.....the bodice slants outward at the bottom, just like my corset. Hmm.
The first of a pair:
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2093/3662440840_b3e8d3d467_o.jpg)
Dame Dorothy Selby, one-time owner of Ightham Mote.
Quote from: DonaCatalina on May 14, 2009, 11:12:08 AM
Wouldn't this partlet be fun to make?
Catherine of Lorraine ca. 1570
Yes it would!! Awesome piece it would be I have a TON of pearls from the Gem Shows that come about bought like 40 strands for a $1.00 per strand so I could do that lovely piece without an issue!!!
I love her hat as well!
Cilean
Here is the portrait I would want to match. I already have the feathered accessories: www.birdsofthegauntlet.renspace.com
I received this picture on an invitation. I asked the hostess about it, and she had received a card with this picture on the front. She didn't know anything about it, but she liked it, so she copied it onto computer paper. She doesn't have the original card anymore.
The gowns are 2 different colors. That's how it was on the invitation. I'd love to see the original painting to determine what the colors really are. A friend of mine has offered to buy material and make me a gown for Christmas this year. Although there are many gowns I'd love to have, I am drawn to the gown on the right, although the one on the left is beautiful, too.
Any help you could provide to give me the name of the painting and the website where you found it would be appreciated. Thanks!
(http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e109/LadyReneeBuchanan/P1010038-1.jpg)
It's definitely a Pre-Raphaelite style to that painting, so I would guess Dante Gabriel Rossetti, John Everett Milais, William Hunt or someone from their circle. I think Rossetti himself has a more classic flair to his models (poses and clothes), so I don't think it's by him - but I must admit the Pre-Raphaelites aren't my forte. I'm more of a "post-Raphaelite", being a fan of Italian Mannerism. ;D
The style is inspired by the Italian art as of how it was before Raphael left for Rome (the High Renaissance). If you want to see what inspired the pre-Raphaelites, check out the art of Botticelli, Lippi, Pollaiuolo and other early Renaissance artists (as well as Medieval/Gothic artists).
The outfit in your painting seems highly inspired by Botticelli:
http://www.bergerfoundation.ch/Sandro/images/Img_big52.jpg
http://dic.academic.ru/pictures/enwiki/86/Venus_and_Mars.jpg
http://www.freewebs.com/isabelladangelo/12primav.jpg
http://www.historylink101.com/art/Sandro_Botticelli/images/03_Fortitude_jpg.jpg
Erm... I realize this doesn't help you in your search for the painting you posted, but at least it gives you some clue on where and when in history it belongs (Pre-Raphaelites in the mid 19.th century), and what it's inspired by (early Renaissance art, especially Botticelli for that outfit). :)
Thank you, this is great! I'll start with the sites you mentioned and go from there. I appreciate your finding the info for me. ;D
Quote from: Lady Renee Buchanan on July 11, 2009, 10:47:21 AM
Thank you, this is great! I'll start with the sites you mentioned and go from there. I appreciate your finding the info for me. ;D
You're welcome! Glad it was somewhat helpful. I hope you'll find the painting eventually, or that someone else will stumble across it. :)
Time for a bump! Found this at Festive Attyre. Take a look at that red gown in the back. Isn't that the most amazing combination of fair fantasy and historical accuracy?! Look at those fabulous sleeves!
(http://www.festiveattyre.com/research/florentine/images/floren29.jpg)
Lorenzo Costa: Allegory of the Court of Isabella d'Este (detail), 1504-1506
***
And Lady Renee, I'm 9 months late on this, but the picture you posted is by Kate Elizabeth Bunce, and it's called "The Keepsake."
(http://faculty.css.edu/phagen/hon4777pr/kepsake.jpg)
Quote from: gem on April 15, 2010, 04:00:37 PM
Time for a bump! Found this at Festive Attyre. Take a look at that red gown in the back. Isn't that the most amazing combination of fair fantasy and historical accuracy?! Look at those fabulous sleeves!
(http://www.festiveattyre.com/research/florentine/images/floren29.jpg)
Lorenzo Costa: Allegory of the Court of Isabella d'Este (detail), 1504-1506
***
Actually that red dress is a Portuguese style made popular by Isabella of Portugal.
(http://hoocher.com/Tiziano_Vecelli/Titian_Empress_Isabel_of_Portugal.jpg)
Wow! And here's a statue of her:
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/5d/Isabel_de_Portugal_%28Pompeo_Leoni%2C_Prado_E-260%29_01b.jpg/200px-Isabel_de_Portugal_%28Pompeo_Leoni%2C_Prado_E-260%29_01b.jpg)
Makes me wonder why we don't see this style more often!
If I ever figure out how to make a bodice with that high a neckline that actually *fits,* I might be tempted to give this one a try!
Believe it or not, Simnplicity pattern 2589 (http://www.simplicity.com/p-1547-costumes.aspx) has the proper neckline and bodice for this dress. You would need to draft your own sleeves.
Quote from: gem on April 15, 2010, 04:00:37 PM
Time for a bump! Found this at Festive Attyre. Take a look at that red gown in the back. Isn't that the most amazing combination of fair fantasy and historical accuracy?! Look at those fabulous sleeves!
http://www.festiveattyre.com/research/florentine/images/floren29.jpg
Lorenzo Costa: Allegory of the Court of Isabella d'Este (detail), 1504-1506
***
I have a slightly bigger version here, if you feel like it:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v31/operafantomet/renaissanceportraits/ferrara/lcostaesteferrara.jpg
Iberic fashion was made popular in northern Italy before Isabella of Portugal. Reason is that there was various Spanish domination in Italian different city states in the late 1400s, and it was fashionable to adapt elements of Iberic dress traditions. The coazzone (hair roll) seen in Milanese portrait is of Spanish origin, same goes for the farthingale and the wide sleeves. Some of these features started appearing in the 1470s sometime, while Isabella of Portugal was born in 1503. So she's not to "blame" in this instance.
That said, she and her husband Charles V run a powerful kingdom, joining Austria and Spain and claiming more land by the hour, and directly or indirectly made Spanish fashion THE fashion in Europe. But that was in the 1530s.
Edited to remove img tags...
Quote from: Holbein on November 04, 2008, 07:35:51 PM
well, it's not a portrait... not even sure how authentic it would be... but it looks cool
(http://www.noos.org/mecs/joseph/jseph1.jpg)
I'm pretty sure that RPFS's costume trailer has a copy of this one. Our Shakespeare at the time wore it one season right after the movie came out....
Quote from: gem on April 15, 2010, 04:22:40 PM
*picture removed*
Makes me wonder why we don't see this style more often!
If I ever figure out how to make a bodice with that high a neckline that actually *fits,* I might be tempted to give this one a try!
The trick with such a neckline is to place the shoulder straps far out. They're not suppose to lay over your shoulder like the straps of a backpack, but rather just hug the outer part of the shoulder, hardly touching the collarbone at all. To make them stay in place, the bodice needs to be tight enough over the back.
I wore my copy of this dress to Scarborough last week.
Though I used chocolate for the overdress and pale lilac for the underdress.
See hat in my icon photo .
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3332/3344003157_b5c5278df1.jpg)
Quote from: Davyes on April 15, 2010, 04:44:47 PM
Quote from: Holbein on November 04, 2008, 07:35:51 PM
well, it's not a portrait... not even sure how authentic it would be... but it looks cool
(http://www.noos.org/mecs/joseph/jseph1.jpg)
I'm pretty sure that RPFS's costume trailer has a copy of this one. Our Shakespeare at the time wore it one season right after the movie came out....
Yep, House wore our copy on last night's episode....
Quote from: Davyes on April 20, 2010, 11:24:31 AM
Yep, House wore our copy on last night's episode....
I
knew it was that outfit! :D
Wouldn't this trim be perfect?
Trim: http://cgi.ebay.com/Our-Finest-Hand-Beaded-Trim-Renaissance-Style_W0QQitemZ400072375132QQcategoryZ86820QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp4340.m8QQ_trkparmsZalgo%3DMW%26its%3DC%26itu%3DUCC%26otn%3D20%26ps%3D63%26clkid%3D9014392537228306766#ht_3867wt_894
Portrait: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v31/operafantomet/renaissanceportraits/firenze2/bronzino1551mariadm.jpg
One would only need to swap the red rhinestone with a pearl. One would also need to be rich, though...
Oh that trim is gorgeous and a small fortune!
(http://freepages.family.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~jacklee/Birmingham/images_other/Art-Manet-BarFoliesBergere.jpg)
It is definitely not renaissance in style, but if I could make anything from a portrait, it would be this lovely little Manet woman... I want her outfit so badly. I've actually been trying to figure out how to draft it up.
Quote from: Sami on April 29, 2010, 12:27:03 AM
http://freepages.family.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~jacklee/Birmingham/images_other/Art-Manet-BarFoliesBergere.jpg
It is definitely not renaissance in style, but if I could make anything from a portrait, it would be this lovely little Manet woman... I want her outfit so badly. I've actually been trying to figure out how to draft it up.
Maybe you could tweak this lovely Truly Victorian pattern a bit for the bodice? It's pretty similar:
http://trulyvictorian.com/catalog/410.html
Greetings, ....great forum topic !.......I am halfway done with the Romeo costume from the Dicksee painting, now working on the small brocade doublet.(http://i822.photobucket.com/albums/zz147/adventure-art/adventure%20garb/other/DickseerandJ.jpg)
Quote from: operafantomet on April 24, 2010, 01:03:47 AM
Wouldn't this trim be perfect?
Trim: http://cgi.ebay.com/Our-Finest-Hand-Beaded-Trim-Renaissance-Style_W0QQitemZ400072375132QQcategoryZ86820QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp4340.m8QQ_trkparmsZalgo%3DMW%26its%3DC%26itu%3DUCC%26otn%3D20%26ps%3D63%26clkid%3D9014392537228306766#ht_3867wt_894
Portrait: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v31/operafantomet/renaissanceportraits/firenze2/bronzino1551mariadm.jpg
One would only need to swap the red rhinestone with a pearl. One would also need to be rich, though...
The trim is absolutely GORGEOUS!!! I have Heritage Trading as one of my saved ebay sellers. But unfortunately, I would need more than a yard. The hand beaded trims would work perfect for Tudor gowns.
Quote from: William of Armagh on May 01, 2010, 10:07:20 AM
Greetings, ....great forum topic !.......I am halfway done with the Romeo costume from the Dicksee painting, now working on the small brocade doublet.(http://i822.photobucket.com/albums/zz147/adventure-art/adventure%20garb/other/DickseerandJ.jpg)
Looks interesting- pics anytime soon?
I just stumbled across this wonderful Melchior Lorch woodcut from 1569, and I'm completely enchanted by her:
(http://pic50.picturetrail.com/VOL417/1033223/17480040/387975446.jpg)
Gorgeous German costume... and more sleeve fabulousness!
Oooh, I love those sleeves gem!
*bump*
(http://centuries-sewing.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/English_Lady_by_Hans_Holbein_the_Younger.jpg)
I just came across this and am horribly in love with it.
Quote from: CenturiesSewing on July 05, 2010, 01:51:10 AM
*bump*
(http://centuries-sewing.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/English_Lady_by_Hans_Holbein_the_Younger.jpg)
I just came across this and am horribly in love with it.
Is that a cameo on the side of her hood?
Isn't that crazy!
Quote from: DonaCatalina on July 05, 2010, 07:09:54 AM
Quote from: CenturiesSewing on July 05, 2010, 01:51:10 AM
*bump*
http://centuries-sewing.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/English_Lady_by_Hans_Holbein_the_Younger.jpg
I just came across this and am horribly in love with it.
Is that a cameo on the side of her hood?
Definitely a cameo. Amusing! I wonder if Tudor ladies had to bow to sumptuary laws, like Tuscan and Venetian ladies? There they had rules about how much jewelry a woman was allowed to wear around her neck. So they put it on their heads and shoulders instead... *giggles*. But soon enough there were laws limiting this use as well. However, when reading about these laws, I found it interesting that a lot of pendants was made both with a loop for necklace, and a pin for pinning it on clothes. That might be the case with Holbein's lady as well (though it is of course only speculations).
Nonetheless a gorgeous portrait, so wonderfully understated.
Looks like a cameo. But more than likely a miniature. Miniatures were common as pendants and pins of a loved one or Betrothed during Tudor and Elizabethan periods.
I've always liked this dress for its detail. I have made something similar but I still need to figure out how to engineer these exact sleeves.
(http://i33.tinypic.com/27xovft.jpg)
LOVE the balzo. And the sleeves look like they are very loosely pulled up... there are pictures of the Italians pulling their full camicia sleeves up and tucking them into their shoulder straps or pinning them to their shoulders... I wonder if this is a take on that idea?
Moda a Firenze has a full-page feature of baragoni (sleeves like that) in detail, which is worth checking out, and Kat's Purple Files has a page on the construction (http://katerina.purplefiles.net/DOCO/Florentine%20Sleeves%20to%201550.html), as well. I think it could be fairly simply achieved as Jaqueline suggests: by drawing up long, strong gathering stitches in a wide tubular sleeve. They remind me a lot of poufy drapery treatments, actually, which makes me think drapery hardware (like the strung-together pull rings that draw up Roman shades) might be employable here.
This one would be meticulous if the silk ribbons had to be sewn to the silk sleeves individually, but it is a striking dress.
(http://www.elizabethancostume.net/finalprojects/tiziano.jpg)
For myself, I like the guy in the middle with the yellow sleeves (but the woman in the green dress is awesome...however, I don't look good in drag ;D )
(http://i778.photobucket.com/albums/yy68/wtdees06/PredigtdesHlAmbrosiusbyBernardvanOrley.jpg)
Quote from: Drudonn on August 16, 2010, 11:19:10 AM
(but the woman in the green dress is awesome...however, I don't look good in drag ;D )
That is an awesome dress. Thank you for sharing the picture, I might have to make me a dress like that now. And I admire the honesty :D
*snorts at Drudonn's comment*
But I agree, lovely dress! Flemish? Dutch?
It's "Predigt des Hl. Ambrosius" by Bernard van Orley, a Flemish painter.
I leave the drag to my fiance, the future Mr. Drudonn. I've done a bit of drag for the drag show for charity at University of Houston, but I'm told I don't make a very good girl :P
Quote from: Drudonn on August 16, 2010, 11:19:10 AM
(http://i778.photobucket.com/albums/yy68/wtdees06/PredigtdesHlAmbrosiusbyBernardvanOrley.jpg)
Those sleeves (on the woman in green) *are* completely awesome! Ophelia's (http://www.opheliasonline.com) double-puff Juliet chemise, in a nice green silk, would be perfect for those.
I'm longing to make a Roman renaissance dress! I love that the dresses are so understated, with the details being in the cut rather than colours and sashes, and I also love that grand golden veil. The first portrait, if identified correctly, is Giulia de' Medici. She was Florentine, but this portrait is thought to have been painted while she lived in Rome. The other one is thought to show Vittoria Farnese, granddaughter of pope Paul III Farnese. The third is Giulia Gonzaga, countess of Fondi (a bit south of Rome).
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v31/operafantomet/renaissanceportraits/roma/th_allori1559rom.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v31/operafantomet/renaissanceportraits/roma/allori1559rom.jpg)(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v31/operafantomet/renaissanceportraits/roma/th_vittoriafarneseromaelurbino1540s.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v31/operafantomet/renaissanceportraits/roma/vittoriafarneseromaelurbino1540s.jpg)(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v31/operafantomet/renaissanceportraits/roma/th_altissimo1535giuliagonzaga.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v31/operafantomet/renaissanceportraits/roma/altissimo1535giuliagonzaga.jpg)
Roman style is very little researched; most often the ladies portrayed is though to be in mourning because they wear dark colours and a veil. But this is not the case. The Roman/Lazio style followed the basic cut of dresses in Florence/Tuscany and Venice/Veneto, but a whole different kind of modesty applied to the noble ladies of the holy city. The restricted use of silks, and the muted colours and large veils are a result of this. I've found two period sources describing the Roman style:
A courtier described the indecent behaviour of the second wife of Cosimo I de' Medici in the late 1500's:
And she adorns herself with finery and vanity more than ever, and even this morning decided to go to Mass all decked out and with a golden veil on her head in the Roman style...
Another source is a letter a father, Sperone Speroni, sent to his daughter when she and her children were to move from Padua to Rome in 1575:
You will need to dress them according to the custom here, I would advice you not to dress them in the Paduan way, and here they do not wear silk either, except for sarsenet in the summer. This is my opinion.
If I ever get around to start on this project, I'll try cardboard stiffening and padding for the bodice, and I'll hopefully make the dress of a fine twill wool in black. Maybe it would be an excuse to try out cutwork sleeves as well... :)
ETA: they don't always wear black, although it looks that way. Giulia de' Medici actually wears a dark blue dress, according to the latest conservations. Dark grey and green colours are also seen.
ETA 2: Roman ladies rarely bleached their hair either, like the Florentine and Venetian women almost always did. Don't ask me why, they just didn't. Courtesans might be the exception, but despite the big economical contributions they made to the city, they suffered from harsher laws in both living situation, work conditions and clothing, especially after the counter-reformation. They were restricted to live in a specific area as well - the Ortaccio. So if courtesans did indeed bleach their hair, they would hardly be mistaken for honest women.
Thanks to operafantomet who showed me this portrait last year
I have been thinking about making it since last summer.
I think this might be the time I actually do it.
I don't know if I have the talent and skill to do it but I will try. You will all definitely be getting lots of questions from me once I start.
Don't know who the artist is.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v31/operafantomet/renaissanceportraits/venezia1/brescia1535.jpg)
Auryn, there's a woman on the Margo Anderson Yahoo group who's just starting a recreation of that gown. You might sign up and check it out!
Quote from: Auryn on August 17, 2010, 12:05:54 PM
Don't know who the artist is.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v31/operafantomet/renaissanceportraits/venezia1/brescia1535.jpg
The artist is Moretto from Brescia, and the portrait is from ca. 1535. :)
I love you guys, such enablers ;D
gem- how do I get to that yahoo group?
I happened across this portrait and thought, WOW! would that be an ambishus project
(http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj83/dragonwing1961/Sewing%20projects/37829_446707254251_56114489251_5960293_5242657_n.jpg)
Quote from: DragonWing on August 18, 2010, 08:21:55 AM
I happened across this portrait and thought, WOW! would that be an ambishus project
Perhaps...but quite handsome too!
::) True, true. I am loving the jewels and pearls on it. And how about those 4 fluffy feathers on the hat?
Lol! The hats my favorite part!!!
I'm using this dress as the inspiration for mine. I'm using a pattern, but have done some modifications to make it look more like this dress. I love the red dress with black sleeves =)
http://realmofvenus.renaissanceitaly.net/wardrobe/CarpaccioBetrothed.jpg (http://realmofvenus.renaissanceitaly.net/wardrobe/CarpaccioBetrothed.jpg)
Quote from: LadyAnna on August 22, 2010, 01:51:21 AM
I'm using this dress as the inspiration for mine. I'm using a pattern, but have done some modifications to make it look more like this dress. I love the red dress with black sleeves =)
(http://realmofvenus.renaissanceitaly.net/wardrobe/CarpaccioBetrothed.jpg)
http://realmofvenus.renaissanceitaly.net/wardrobe/CarpaccioBetrothed.jpg (http://realmofvenus.renaissanceitaly.net/wardrobe/CarpaccioBetrothed.jpg)
Of course all those pearls on the sleeves call to me too.
Auryn, I renamed the Moretto da Brescia portrait you had linked to above. That is why the deleted symbol comes up. Hotlinking drains my bandwidth, especially in forums cause every time people load the site it eats a bit of the little bandwidth I have. I noticed several of you hotlink (meaning putting IMG tags around a .jpg link), and without wanting to sound like a forum police, do think about what this does to other people's sites. I'm sorry if this comes off as pointing fingers, but I just visited my Photobucket and found out I was almost out of bandwidth for this month, even though the storage percent is only at 46%. And the reason turned out to be hotlinking in several forums (not just here).
If it's possible to upload the picture to your own server, or to post the link without IMG tabs around it, I think this is a better way of sharing pictures.
Now that I found this in one of my new, free books, I really want to make it! Just lovely and simple!
(http://lh5.ggpht.com/_z9cN4ycfueI/TG6xajzw1iI/AAAAAAAAARQ/UO3ua6OBQXY/s640/IMG_5149.jpg)
I'm thinking light blue linen, as I don't look the best in green...
This has to be the most unattractive Renaissance era portrait that I've ever seen.
RAFFAELLO portrait of Elisabetta Gonzaga (http://www.wga.hu/art/r/raphael/1early/061gonza.jpg)
c. 1503
(http://www.wga.hu/art/r/raphael/1early/061gonza.jpg)
Quote from: DonaCatalina on August 26, 2010, 03:35:10 PM
This has to be the most unattractive Renaissance era portrait that I've ever seen.
The dress has potential though!
She does look as if she is saying, "If you do not finish this portrait NOW, you will be fed to the rats."
Quote from: Lady Kett on August 26, 2010, 08:03:19 PM
Quote from: DonaCatalina on August 26, 2010, 03:35:10 PM
This has to be the most unattractive Renaissance era portrait that I've ever seen.
The dress has potential though!
She does look as if she is saying, "If you do not finish this portrait NOW, you will be fed to the rats."
I think that might be the scorpion on her forehead talking. LOL.
Quote from: DonaCatalina on August 27, 2010, 04:53:04 AM
I think that might be the scorpion on her forehead talking. LOL.
Haha! :D The portrait was a part of a large exhibit in 2009. It was paired by a similar scorpion jewelry from the mid or late 16th century, I think it was from Kunsthistorisches Museum in Vienna. I never saw the exhibition myself, I just read about it, but I remember being curious in the actual meaning of a scorpion in the 16th century. Especially since she wears it so prominently on her forehead. Might just have been fashion, but I choose to think it relates to her in some way.
This was not in my Moroni catalog, but its shown up recently identified as his. I am itching to do this sleeve treatment.
Moroni portrait of a lady (http://www.wga.hu/art/m/moroni/reddress.jpg)
Click the link since its a large photo.
Wow, I've never seen that one before. Gorgeous!! It actually reminds lot of the crimson Pisa dress in terms of sleeves and trim placement, but the bodice is a lot stricter (continental) than the Florentine style. I would almost have guessed Cremona and Sofonisba Anguissola for this one.
Thanks for sharing!
Quote from: DonaCatalina on August 27, 2010, 11:41:32 AM
This was not in my Moroni catalog, but its shown up recently identified as his. I am itching to do this sleeve treatment.
Moroni portrait of a lady (http://www.wga.hu/art/m/moroni/reddress.jpg)
Click the link since its a large photo.
And yet another to add to my list of favorites! I can't remember seeing this one before, either!
Another pink Moroni! I wonder if that man had access to any other colors of paint. Ha!!
The most striking female renaissance portrait ever painted, IMHO:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v31/operafantomet/renaissanceportraits/cremona/donnacremona.jpg)
Portrait of Bianca Ponzoni Anguissola, painted ca. 1557. The painter was Sofonisba Anguissola, the sitter's daughter and one of the most celebrated portraitists in the late 16th century.
Nevermind that the dress is utterly gorgeous, look at that face, those eyes! And see how it's balanced with the golden hair and the golden marten. This is to me extreme beauty, and if I ever find a similar fabric I just need to recreate this dress. Though, as mentioned, it's the face that fascinates me the most.
Can someone tell me the term for that accessory she is holding... the marten? What were those fur pieces called. I have 3 beautiful minks I would like to play with and make one, but I need to research them. Thank you!!!
Quote from: amy on September 03, 2010, 03:30:57 PM
Can someone tell me the term for that accessory she is holding... the marten? What were those fur pieces called. I have 3 beautiful minks I would like to play with and make one, but I need to research them. Thank you!!!
Too tired to give you a proper reply right now, but here are two links:
http://sablegreyhound.com/ZibelliniPicsAndInfo.html
http://operafantomet.livejournal.com/202696.html
Thank you so much for the help! They are beautiful! I will give it some kind of shot!
This is the best copy of this portrait that I have yet seen.
I love it- all that gold embroidery.
(oh and it might actually be pink also)
(http://www.sandstead.com/images/cincinnati_museum_of_art/BRONZINO_Portrait_of_Eleonora_di_Todelo_and_her_Son_c1549_CMU_source_sandstead_d2h_54.jpg)
How is he claiming copyright on that image?
I love that portrait, too, DC. :)
Quote from: DonaCatalina on September 10, 2010, 02:23:32 PM
This is the best copy of this portrait that I have yet seen.
I love it- all that gold embroidery.
(oh and it might actually be pink also)
http://www.sandstead.com/images/cincinnati_museum_of_art/BRONZINO_Portrait_of_Eleonora_di_Todelo_and_her_Son_c1549_CMU_source_sandstead_d2h_54.jpg
A tricky portrait, that one... Cause there exists so many versions of it. The original by Bronzino is the one where she wears the white dress with black and gold pattern. THAT dress, you know... She's depicted towards a blue evening sky, and has the son Giovanni by her side:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v31/operafantomet/renaissanceportraits/firenze2/bronzino1545.jpg
Some years later the same artist made a new version of the portrait. Because it was meant as a gift and needed to be sent ASAP, Bronzino was ordered to simplify the dress of the countess, and to depict the son as an adult, as he appeared in Genoa the previous year(*). In documents about this portrait it's described as "pagonazzo/pavonazzo", a purplish hue. She was also set towards a green curtain, and with the elder son Francesco by her side.
Some years later, a copy of that second portrait was made, probably by Bronzino's workshop. Amusingly enough, they've tried to copy the pattern from the first dress, but the style and colours from the second dress... The facial expressions are also sweetened. That's the portrait you posted overneath, from Cincinnati. But it's a later copy of this portrait:
The "Pisa" version:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v31/operafantomet/renaissanceportraits/firenze2/bronschooledt1550s.jpg
From that second link, you can see that the portrait dress originally was browner in colour and wasn't patterned, while the son had a red outfit. In the portrait copy you posted both outfits has a purple/pink hue. But that is not how the artist originally painted it. It might be due to the use of inferior painting, which could lead the second version to fade or react differently. That's what happened with a copy of the original portrait, in Detroit - the sky has turned grey, and the outfit of the son brown. Originally the sky was blue, and his outfit purple with gold.
The "Detroit" version
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v31/operafantomet/eleonora/portrait2.jpg
There exist even more of this portrait. It is an oddity in many ways, because it's the first Florentine secular portrait depicting mother and son, and because later copies and versions shows her with different sons. Sorry for me obsessing over it, but I'm working on a master thesis about the original compared to the Pisa one. I'm still so thrilled when people post about it! :D
ETA: In a Medici letter from 1549:
(*)
"Their Excellences say that they are content that for the convenience of Bronzino and in order to hasten the completion of the paintings which the most Reverent Monsignor of Arras desired of them, that the clothing of the Duchess should not be made of broccato riccio but some other figured textile that would give a beautiful effect" (...) So her Excellency suggested that I should write to your lordship to make it known to Bronzino that, as for the saio of Don Francesco, he should paint one of red triple-pile velvet (tertio pelo) the most beautiful that he knows and is able to do, but that he should accompany it with a robba lined with marten or sable, as it did not seem to her that the young lord should be portrayed any longer in just a saio but in a robba, as he was seen at Genoa. And concerning the robba which was requested of her Excellency, she told me the same as for the saio of Don Francesco, that Bronzino may paint one of his own way in the same colour."
Quote from: gem on September 10, 2010, 03:07:28 PM
How is he claiming copyright on that image?
Copyright will be of the photo, not of the portrait. If he took that photo, he owns the rights to it.
The Pelican Portrait Gown is finished. See Finished Projects thread.
(http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash2/hs205.ash2/46821_472274421279_568686279_7066483_6431199_n.jpg)
The Pelican Portrait gown
My version as done as closely to the portrait as possible, guessing the distances of pearl and jewels placements.
(http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/hs635.snc4/59570_472273321279_568686279_7066445_7578844_n.jpg)
(http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/hs635.snc4/59570_472273316279_568686279_7066444_7048672_n.jpg)
Quote from: Kate XXXXXX on September 11, 2010, 01:16:54 PM
Quote from: gem on September 10, 2010, 03:07:28 PM
How is he claiming copyright on that image?
Copyright will be of the photo, not of the portrait. If he took that photo, he owns the rights to it.
Yes, except photographs that are "slavish reproductions" of the original artwork aren't subject to copyright protection. See Bridgeman v. Corel (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bridgeman_Art_Library_v._Corel_Corp.#Subsequent_jurisprudence).
(I should point out that I make my living by my copyright, so I'm certainly not out to rob creators of their intellectual property!)
I realize this has appeared in the thread before, but I stumbled across this portrait today, and decided my next project will be based on it. I already had sketched out a navy blue velvet doublet bodice and skirt, with gold brocaded forepart, and am now slightly altering my sketch to make it a little bit more like this portrait. It's such a striking picture!
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v680/HappyStamper/70789Marie-De-Medici-1573-1642-Wife.jpg)
If you Google "embroidered partlet," you'll find a recreation of this gown (I think it's in Katrina's Purple Files, but I may be mistaken).
Quote from: Lady Rebecca on September 28, 2010, 12:54:11 AM
I realize this has appeared in the thread before, but I stumbled across this portrait today, and decided my next project will be based on it. I already had sketched out a navy blue velvet doublet bodice and skirt, with gold brocaded forepart, and am now slightly altering my sketch to make it a little bit more like this portrait. It's such a striking picture!
Isn't it? It's one of the daughters or wards of Cosimo I de' Medici and Eleonora di Toledo. Problem is that no-one knows exactly who... The museum in Vienna (where the portrait is) names it Maria de' Medici. But she died in 1557, and the style of dress is a bit later than that. It might be the younger Isabella de' Medici, who adapted her mothers love for drop pearl earring and pearl necklaces (which you find in this portrait). Moda a Firenze suggests it is her, and it reminds of her except other portraits shows her with very dark eyes. Or it might be Dianora di Toledo de' Medici, niece of Eleonora, as the colours seems to match the Toledo heraldry. Gabrielle Langdon has convincing a chapter about that in her "Medici Women" book.
It's definitely not Marie de' Medici, queen of France, as people often mistake it as!
Whatever the case, the portrait is drop dead gorgeous! It was painted by Alessandro Allori, which was pupil and adopted son of Bronzino. Moda a Firenze drescribes the dress as "
a gown of sky blue taffeta, with a French-style bodice fastened with invisible hooks, with embroideries of gold purle on bands of velvet." (page 99).
There has been several lovely recreations of this portrait, some shown here:
http://realmofvenus.renaissanceitaly.net/yourgarb/2009/Kerri.htm
http://realmofvenus.renaissanceitaly.net/yourgarb/2008/Deb-Ginny.htm
http://katerina.purplefiles.net/garb/diaries/FLGeorgiera_Maria_dMedici.html
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/__YfwK4DqANw/S8I9-gkeE2I/AAAAAAAAG1s/FQcpyC-_4mo/s1600/Picture+1.png
(the latter one is my favourite, both details and silhouette. And it's made of paper! Amazing!)
I like this portrait of Queen Elizabeth I. The gown is simple enough. A deep Burgandy velveteen would be indeed striking. Finding the right tarnished gold trim would be the challenge. The overskirt appears to close as well as open. I prefer the open look to show the underskirt forepart.
(http://www.elizabethan-portraits.com/Elizabeth44.jpg)
Quote from: operafantomet on September 28, 2010, 03:35:34 AM
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/__YfwK4DqANw/S8I9-gkeE2I/AAAAAAAAG1s/FQcpyC-_4mo/s1600/Picture+1.png
(the latter one is my favourite, both details and silhouette. And it's made of paper! Amazing!)
Is there a blog that goes with this one, or is it just the image.
And thanks for all the info! It was Kerri's reproduction showing up on a google image search that led me to this gown in the first place.
I've always loved this gown. My monitor shows almost a dark olive for the sleeves, a terracotta for the silk gown and black (or possibly olive) velevet trim on the bodice. Along with the soft and very full sleeves of the chemise, well ,I think it's just lovely.
(http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l142/Marianna00/1540_moretto_young_woman.jpg)
I'm wondering if anyone can tell me more about this style of dress. I can't make much of it. Fur lined? Loks like an overdress of some sort? The hat is unusual, and I really like it. Anyone have pictures of something similar? My curiosity is piqued.
(http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l142/Marianna00/Portrait-of-a-Young-Woman-1530s.jpg)
Quote from: Anna Iram on September 28, 2010, 08:47:43 AM
I've always loved this gown. My monitor shows almost a dark olive for the sleeves, a terracotta for the silk gown and black (or possibly olive) velevet trim on the bodice. Along with the soft and very full sleeves of the chemise, well ,I think it's just lovely.
(http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l142/Marianna00/1540_moretto_young_woman.jpg)
That is so interesting because I see Eddie Bauer green sleeves, salmon gown, and DEEP teal trim. Funny how monitors show differing colors. Very beautiful regardless. ;)
Quote from: Anna Iram on September 28, 2010, 08:47:43 AM
I'm wondering if anyone can tell me more about this style of dress. I can't make much of it. Fur lined? Loks like an overdress of some sort? The hat is unusual, and I really like it. Anyone have pictures of something similar? My curiosity is piqued.
(http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l142/Marianna00/Portrait-of-a-Young-Woman-1530s.jpg)
I'm curious about this too. This type of rigid flat brimmed hat isn't common outside of Spain (Sombrero Sevillano) before 1570.
Anyone have some insight or other information?
Quote from: Anna Iram on September 28, 2010, 08:47:43 AM
I've always loved this gown. My monitor shows almost a dark olive for the sleeves, a terracotta for the silk gown and black (or possibly olive) velevet trim on the bodice. Along with the soft and very full sleeves of the chemise, well ,I think it's just lovely.
(http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l142/Marianna00/1540_moretto_young_woman.jpg)
I'm wondering if anyone can tell me more about this style of dress. I can't make much of it. Fur lined? Loks like an overdress of some sort? The hat is unusual, and I really like it. Anyone have pictures of something similar? My curiosity is piqued.
(http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l142/Marianna00/Portrait-of-a-Young-Woman-1530s.jpg)
Someone was selling a reproduction of this gown a year or so ago on Ebay. The sleeves weren't quite right but overall the look was great. The colors were closer to what you describe (those are how I see them, too.)
Quote from: Anna Iram on September 28, 2010, 08:47:43 AM
I'm wondering if anyone can tell me more about this style of dress. I can't make much of it. Fur lined? Loks like an overdress of some sort? The hat is unusual, and I really like it. Anyone have pictures of something similar? My curiosity is piqued.
(http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l142/Marianna00/Portrait-of-a-Young-Woman-1530s.jpg)
That's one of Tiziano's many "courtesans" - that is, variations that seems to be the same woman. He's said to have depicted her in the Urbino Venus and the "La Bella" too, so it seems she was a real model. But for all we know it might have been his generic idea of beauty.
What she's wearing is a chemise under a loosely draped "zimarra" (overdress). The zimarra was much in vogue both in north and mid Italy. These might give a better impression of how they looked when worn (properly... ;D ):
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v31/operafantomet/renaissanceportraits/venezia2/countessliviabyveronese.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v31/operafantomet/renaissanceportraits/venezia2/micheli1565.jpg
http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v31/operafantomet/renaissanceportraits/roma/altissimo1535giuliagonzaga.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v31/operafantomet/renaissanceportraits/firenze3/dog1560-70.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v31/operafantomet/renaissanceportraits/firenze2/bronschooledt1550s.jpg
http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v31/operafantomet/renaissanceportraits/venezia2/domenicoriccio1567palazzothiene.jpg
The zimarra is throught to have been imported from/inspired by the Ottomans and their kaftans. The wide shape and decorative frog closings they usually had reminds of the kaftans. They could be sleeveless, or with sleeves, sometimes removable. They were overclass garbs, which implies that they were also worn by well-to-do courtesans (as the lady in your portrait probably is depicting). They could be lightly lined with silk for summer, or with fur for winter. "Moda a Firenze" writes that the Tiziano lady has a zimarra lined with sable. Her plumed hat has ostrich feathers and a medallion with a motif I can't depict. Probably an allegory. Such hats were common enough for noble ladies, especially when out riding or in public. Eleonora di Toledo, who loved the zimarra, wore such hats over snoods.
There is also a variant where the lady only wears a sleeveless zimarra, without hat and camicia. If I'm not mistaken that is the original of the two versions. It originally showed a richly dressed lady in a traditional Venetian dress. It was later overpainted, but don't ask me why. The overpaint is by Tiziano, though, and he followed up with the lady you posted picture of. Here's the other one:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v31/operafantomet/renaissanceportraits/venezia2/tizian1537fur.jpg
The latter is in the Kunsthistorischen Museum in Vienna, the former in Hermitage in St. Petersburg. They were painted (I think) the same year - but double check so I don't mislead you... Whatever the case, the zimarra were a rather new fashion item in Italy in the 1530s, which might be why it's so central in the paintings/portraits.
Tiziano also painted a similar "Venus" in two versions, wearing a draped zimarra. Those are later in style:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v31/operafantomet/renaissanceportraits/venezia2/tizian1555mirror2.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v31/operafantomet/renaissanceportraits/venezia2/tizianvenusspeil.jpg
Quote from: Lady Rebecca on September 28, 2010, 07:54:04 AM
Quote from: operafantomet on September 28, 2010, 03:35:34 AM
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/__YfwK4DqANw/S8I9-gkeE2I/AAAAAAAAG1s/FQcpyC-_4mo/s1600/Picture+1.png
(the latter one is my favourite, both details and silhouette. And it's made of paper! Amazing!)
Is there a blog that goes with this one, or is it just the image.
The paper version is by an artist called Isabelle de Borchgrave. She's made lots of garbs based on Medici portraits, and they're all OH SO gorgeous. Most are featured in a book called "Paper Illusions", here:
http://www.amazon.com/Paper-Illusions-Art-Isabelle-Borchgrave/dp/081097133X
She's also made a couple of the "Kyoto" dresses. Drool, drool, drool!
As for the hat in the Tiziano painting, it's not wildly uncommon in Italy. But it rarely shows up in portraits, as it was an outdoor/traveling garb, while ladies are usually depicted in their finest dresses. It derived from the male wardrobe, which is why some
snotty moralists found it improper for ladies to wear (in Milan there were even a law (of 1565) allowing women to wear hats ONLY in case of illness and foul weather...) This might add another aspect to the Tiziano painting, as Venetian courtesans were no strangers to the subject of blurring the distinctions between the genders in their dressing, as seen in this later image:
http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v31/operafantomet/renaissanceportraits/venezia2/vecelliostreetwhore.jpg
(doublet and breeches and transparent skirt... kinky!)
The wearing of such "male" hats is one thing the "Moda a Firenze" for sure ascribes to Eleonora di Toledo's influence. Lots of Spanish fashion is said to derive from her, but the books hows how much of it were already in use, and/or bound to come into fashion shortly with or without her. But due to her highly active life and big demand of traveling clothes, she set a new standard in female traveling gear, and she made the hat fashionable in the mid 16th century at least in Tuscany. She had hats made of both straw, felt and linens; the finest in her collection is said to be one from 1546, in white, "with two white feathers fastened by a precious medal portraying the biblical heroine Judith". That's not too unlike the Tiziano painting!
Quote from: Anna Iram on September 28, 2010, 08:47:43 AM
I've always loved this gown. My monitor shows almost a dark olive for the sleeves, a terracotta for the silk gown and black (or possibly olive) velevet trim on the bodice. Along with the soft and very full sleeves of the chemise, well ,I think it's just lovely.
(http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l142/Marianna00/1540_moretto_young_woman.jpg)
In both my monitors (home and work) I see this gown as a bright reddish orange(with some gold undertones) with black trim and dark green sleeves.
I am finally sitting down planning out my reproduction of that dress and thats the colors I will be going with (since I already have the orange fabric for it).
Oh God, I'm spamming this thread today.... Sorry! But to throw in my two cents on the colour of the Moretto portrait:
The trims are dark bottle green velvet, not black. Such green shades have a tendency to appear black - something similar can be seen in a velvet costume I made some years ago (not sure how this looks on other peoples computer, but it's definitely a green fabric, that one!):
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v31/operafantomet/elissa/details/hnblbeads1.jpg
The sleeves are of a rather different green shade; it isn't as blue in colour as the velvet trims (but I wouldn't call it teal, I don't see it as that blue). As they appear to be tie-ons they might not have been made exclusively for this dress originally. To my eye the bodice and skirt seems to be made of a salmon silk, but I guess it depends on the reproduction.
SPAMMER!!! :D
Opera, as always you are a bounty of information. :)
Thank you everyone! I appreciate the input. I do see now that the trim has a bit of blue to green in it. Yes, exactly like your gown, Opera. As for the color, I can see a dark salmon, but I call it terracotta because of a fabric I purchased some time ago and the thread that seemed to match best was "terracotta". I don't know if I have enough for this gown, but I love this color so I'll look for something dark Salmon to light Terracotta.
Auryn, that's so cool that you are making this gown. I'll enjoy reading along as your work. Perhaps we'll both have the chance to show them off next season. Even if we were to wear them at the same event, the nice thing about making your own is that with the different choices of fabrics they will each still be unique.
..and thank you for the information on Titian's Courtesan. Dona said she might be such a Lady and I figured as much with the half undress. . I'll have to look into the zimmara more. Might be too big of a project, but it'd be such a nice change from a cloak on cold days, and it would be fun to know the inner story of this lady if I were able to match the garb well enough. Any thoughts on where to start for a pattern?
Anna,
I actually think that would be kinda cool. Plan to both go to BARF in a similar dress. That would totally mess with people hehehe
Eureka! Here is a now-and-original picture of one of the Tiziano portraits which was mentioned in the previous page. You can see how the X rays reveal the lady fully dressed, with the right arm hold down rather than in front of the torso. Sorry for the bad quality, it's the best I could find:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v31/operafantomet/renaissanceportraits/venezia2/tizianonowbefore.jpg)
The overpainted version reminds me quite a bit of Tiziano's "La Bella". The lady is by all accounts the same. Again, it might not be meant as a portrait of a specific lady, but rather a depiction of beauty, or a depiction of a well-beloved courtesan or professional model. The one above might have been painted after the same cartoon as "La Bella", especially the placement of the hands are similar. But the later overpaint has changed the pose and clothes, dunno why. Maybe because an eventual patron wanted a pin-up for his collection? ;D
Thanks for sharing this...its very informative.
Have you considered posting in The person behind the portrait? (http://www.renaissancefestival.com/forums/index.php?topic=13214.0)
How interesting! Thank you for looking for that. Love the pin up theory. :D
Yes, please do add that to the above mentioned thread as well. :)
This.
I don't know anything about this portrait (looks like Queen Elizabeth I), but I've totally fallen in love with it. I'm fascinated by the cloak/robe (please garb experts, explain what that is :)) she's wearing. Is it green or teal (looks teal to my eyes)? Silk or velvet?
The colors, jewelry, and accessories go together beautifully. Her gloves are exquisite! I love the color of the gown, it reminds me of the gold gown in QE I's coronation portrait.
(http://img651.imageshack.us/img651/7652/eliza1590s.jpg)
Yes this is QEI. I believe this one is referred to as the 'glove portrait' because of the embroidered gloves that are displayed so prominently.
I would have called that a mantle at first glance, but in looking closer it seems to have a sleeve on her left arm. It almost looks like a ropa - but the style of gown looks to be from after the time when the ropa was popular in England (correct me if I'm wrong, I'm not as knowledgeable on late Elizabethan fashion as I could be). And again, it looks a bit too un-tailored for a ropa, so it may just be something added for pretty drapery in the portrait? If I were to make the gown though I would probably make it a ropa for ease of wear so I wouldn't have to carry a big drape of fabric everywhere.
But I absolutely love the colour combinations - I'm a slave to teal. ;D
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v31/operafantomet/renaissanceportraits/venezia2/fasolo1560paologualdo2.jpg)
Not sure I necessarily want this dress, but the fabric and the red jewelry is super funky. And surprisingly she wears a very green underskirt with gold pattern visible in the split skirt front. The detail above is from a larger portraits painted by Fasolo, and is of Paula Bonanone Gualdo and her daughters. It was painted in Vicenza near Venice in the 1560s. Fasolo also painted a triple portrait of the father with two sons. Fullshot of both portraits here (they're huuuuge):
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v31/operafantomet/renaissanceportraits/venezia2/fasolo1560gualdos.jpg
http://www.museicivicivicenza.it/en/mcp/opera.php/10484
Sara, if you look closely, you can see a second green sleeve on her right arm. The poor quality of the preservation on the painting makes it hard to see, but it's there! I don't know if that helps interpret what she's wearing, though.
Anea, that striped fabric is really unusual! I don't think I've seen anything like it in period before.
Check out this portrait! It is Anna of Austria and look at the diamond jewels, as well as a Habsburg double eagle. This was done in 1616 and not in 1570's by Bartolomé González y Serrano. I love the trim on this and I can see the slashes in the Kirtle with red trim.
(http://www.gogmsite.net/_Media/1616_copy_of_1570_origina-7.jpeg)
Cilean
WOW!
Quote from: Cilean on December 29, 2010, 10:19:16 PM
Check out this portrait! It is Anna of Austria and look at the diamond jewels, as well as a Habsburg double eagle. This was done in 1616 and not in 1570's by Bartolomé González y Serrano. I love the trim on this and I can see the slashes in the Kirtle with red trim.
http://www.gogmsite.net/_Media/1616_copy_of_1570_origina-7.jpeg
Cilean
I think it's a doublet bodice and not a kirtle, but agreed: wow! The details are amazing, especially the trims and the jewelry. I also love the red bows/loops with large golden aglets on her sleeves. Funky!
Quote from: Cilean on December 29, 2010, 10:19:16 PM
Check out this portrait! It is Anna of Austria and look at the diamond jewels, as well as a Habsburg double eagle. This was done in 1616 and not in 1570's by Bartolomé González y Serrano. I love the trim on this and I can see the slashes in the Kirtle with red trim.
http://www.gogmsite.net/_Media/1616_copy_of_1570_origina-7.jpeg
Cilean
I need my wedding gown and a seam ripper... :)
Quote from: operafantomet on December 30, 2010, 06:41:46 AM
I think it's a doublet bodice and not a kirtle, but agreed: wow! The details are amazing, especially the trims and the jewelry. I also love the red bows/loops with large golden aglets on her sleeves. Funky!
Looking at it, since we can't see what is under the overgown because it is closed but since the sleeves and the inner doublet is awesome I was extrapolating that the skirting inside would be the same! I would love to pink the crap out of an entire thing!
Only of course I am not a red person so I am thinking....! If I did the inner gown in deep blue and silver? Then did the over gown in white? Hmmmmmmmmmmm!!!! I would need Bridal Silk Satin for the outer gown...?? I think I could use blue ties and hmmmmm it seems I will be doing all sorts of things, not that I can sew any time soon! LOL
Cilean
Cilean
Quote from: Cilean on January 01, 2011, 02:34:20 AM
Quote from: operafantomet on December 30, 2010, 06:41:46 AM
I think it's a doublet bodice and not a kirtle, but agreed: wow! The details are amazing, especially the trims and the jewelry. I also love the red bows/loops with large golden aglets on her sleeves. Funky!
Looking at it, since we can't see what is under the overgown because it is closed but since the sleeves and the inner doublet is awesome I was extrapolating that the skirting inside would be the same! I would love to pink the crap out of an entire thing!
Only of course I am not a red person so I am thinking....! If I did the inner gown in deep blue and silver? Then did the over gown in white? Hmmmmmmmmmmm!!!! I would need Bridal Silk Satin for the outer gown...?? I think I could use blue ties and hmmmmm it seems I will be doing all sorts of things, not that I can sew any time soon! LOL
Cilean
Cilean
I love the plan! Blue is an underrated colour for period outfits.
As for what she wears underneath, both ways are plausible, definitely. But judging from portraits where you can see the underskirt, it appears that when a lady wears a high necked garb, it's a doublet (with sleeves), and it's a separate item than the skirt or forepart. I haven't any Spanish examples uploaded in my Photobucket, but here is examples from Italian fashion:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v31/operafantomet/renaissanceportraits/bologne/lavfontanaparrot2.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v31/operafantomet/renaissanceportraits/bergamo/moroni1560s.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v31/operafantomet/renaissanceportraits/firenze3/bartpassarotti.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v31/operafantomet/renaissanceportraits/bergamo/lolmogiovanpaolo1580sbergamo.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v31/operafantomet/renaissanceportraits/bologne/lfontana1580nobbol.jpg
In Italy the doublet bodice was often skipped as well, and the overdress (there called "veste") buttoned up so only the partlet/collar or a bit of the chemise was visible - like here:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v31/operafantomet/renaissanceportraits/firenze3/bronschool1560isabellauffizi.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v31/operafantomet/renaissanceportraits/firenze3/allori1560sisdmdog.jpg
THAT said... although the two examples overneath are more frequent, there are some examples of what you are suggesting as well (or something similar):
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v31/operafantomet/renaissanceportraits/bergamo/pulzone1580s.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v31/operafantomet/renaissanceportraits/bologne/lavfontana158090lady.jpg
(I know these are Italian examples and can't automatically be transferred to Spanish fashion. But the style depicted in these portraits are influenced by Spanish way of dressing, as was much of the fashion in Europe in the late 1500s. And I think you'll find the same is the case in Spanish portraits. Michaela de Bruce probably have the answer in her site: http://sayaespanola.glittersweet.com/ )
Can we revisit this lovely portrait again. That skirt is obviously gored and not pleated... is there a waist band? So smooth over the hips and that skinny skinny waist. ( been catching up on threads today )
Anna, which portrait did you mean?
Quote from: Cilean on January 01, 2011, 02:34:20 AM
Quote from: operafantomet on December 30, 2010, 06:41:46 AM
I think it's a doublet bodice and not a kirtle, but agreed: wow! The details are amazing, especially the trims and the jewelry. I also love the red bows/loops with large golden aglets on her sleeves. Funky!
Looking at it, since we can't see what is under the overgown because it is closed but since the sleeves and the inner doublet is awesome I was extrapolating that the skirting inside would be the same!
Cilean
The skirt might be the same material. but not treated the same since it is based on male fashion of the same time period circa 1570
(http://faculty.arts.ubc.ca/rfedoruk/dress_decor/images/Ren_dress/Northern/1570_leicester_tn.gif)
Quote from: Cilean on December 29, 2010, 10:19:16 PM
Check out this portrait! It is Anna of Austria and look at the diamond jewels, as well as a Habsburg double eagle. This was done in 1616 and not in 1570's by Bartolomé González y Serrano. I love the trim on this and I can see the slashes in the Kirtle with red trim.
(http://www.gogmsite.net/_Media/1616_copy_of_1570_origina-7.jpeg)
OOps... Sorry. I got so excited with the picture I completely forgot about the other conversations going on! haha.. sorry
Well, and I called you by the wrong name! Sorry about that!!
Since the dress is Spanish, I suspect that it is flat gored in the front and pleated to fit in the back.
See the construction on Eleonora de Toledo's burial gown (http://realmofvenus.renaissanceitaly.net/workbox/extwomclo2.htm) which had the same look, very flat in front.
(http://www.hartwoodcastle.com/images/Eleonora_burial2.gif)
Oh that is extremely helpful! Thank you Dona! I love that smooth front look.
Glad to help, and as an amusing side note.... Dune 1984
(http://images.wikia.com/scifi/images/5/5b/Irulan.jpg)
One of my favorite movies (yes, it is not a great movie) , and I have watched those costumes over and over!
Giggle. Best part of the movie...
I just skimmed through all 19 pages of this thread, looking for a particular portrait.
Somewhere around page 4 I totally forgot what I was looking for! Ha! So much gorgeousness here.
Just saw this looking through some Cranach paintings for ideas. I absolutely love the sleeves :)
(http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/n571/magpieflynn/107395_594.jpg)
Oh, How I want to make it.
(http://img864.imageshack.us/img864/6483/fmlac1052608a.jpg)
And this too. Just look at the ruff!
(http://img196.imageshack.us/img196/7922/ladyportrait.jpg)
Quote from: DonaCatalina on January 25, 2011, 01:30:42 PM
Since the dress is Spanish, I suspect that it is flat gored in the front and pleated to fit in the back.
See the construction on Eleonora de Toledo's burial gown (http://realmofvenus.renaissanceitaly.net/workbox/extwomclo2.htm) which had the same look, very flat in front.
(http://www.hartwoodcastle.com/images/Eleonora_burial2.gif)
From what Ive read you are right, flat in front and then pleated although not sure if it's a cartridge or other type of pleating. I want to do that look for my daughters dress. It lays beautifully and nothing dances as well as gores. I learned the magic of them making evening gowns for pageants. It moves beautifully!!!!
Quote from: ladyharrogate on April 11, 2011, 10:05:38 PM
Quote from: DonaCatalina on January 25, 2011, 01:30:42 PM
Since the dress is Spanish, I suspect that it is flat gored in the front and pleated to fit in the back.
See the construction on Eleonora de Toledo's burial gown (http://realmofvenus.renaissanceitaly.net/workbox/extwomclo2.htm) which had the same look, very flat in front.
(http://www.hartwoodcastle.com/images/Eleonora_burial2.gif)
From what Ive read you are right, flat in front and then pleated although not sure if it's a cartridge or other type of pleating. I want to do that look for my daughters dress. It lays beautifully and nothing dances as well as gores. I learned the magic of them making evening gowns for pageants. It moves beautifully!!!!
The zig-zags in front waist area shows where the pleats originally were. The skirt of Eleonora di Toledo's funeral dress was pleated all around. The contemporary crimson Pisa dress, however, have cartridge pleats. Maybe because the velvet is thicker and stiffer than the satin silk used in Eleonora's dress, and would not look as good if pleated flat?
The use of gores and panels is nearly identical in the Eleonora and Pisa dress, to the point of researcher wondering if it might have been made by the same tailor. The Pisa dress: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v31/operafantomet/extant/redpisa1.jpg
Note that although people mention Eleonora's Spanish origin and name her clothes as Spanish, it's not entirely accurate. She lived much of her youth in Naples (which was Spanish per se, but still in the Italic peninsula), and most of her life in Florence and Pisa. Her tailor was Florentine, and as the funeral dress as well as her portraits reveals it separate from true Spanish fashion by having a fuller skirt, more neckline, and also brighter colours. Florentine way of dressing was softer overall than Spanish fashion, with little or no use of farthingales and stays. Eleonora did however move the slightly old-fashioned Tuscan style into more continental style.
Quote from: Magpie Flynn on April 10, 2011, 09:44:42 PM
Just saw this looking through some Cranach paintings for ideas. I absolutely love the sleeves :)
http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/n571/magpieflynn/107395_594.jpg
I agree, those sleeves are spectacular! I love quirky German fashion.
lol I need to stop looking at all these portraits, theres waaay too many pieces I need want, and not enough time or money to do it all!
This one is for Lady Renee! I found a really nice large image of Kate Elizabeth Bunce's "The Keepsake," (http://www.bierstadt.org/upload1/file-admin/images/new17/Kate%20Elizabeth%20Bunce-982484.jpg) which she posted about last (?) year:
(http://www.bierstadt.org/upload1/file-admin/images/new17/Kate%20Elizabeth%20Bunce-982484.jpg)
The link takes you to a version that's even bigger!
bbeauutiful
I dont know which i like better, the green or the white
IIRC, she was admiring the green, but I can't even imagine trying to find that fabric. Although there are some Amy Butler prints that actually might work--especially if you tea-dyed them to take down the brightness a little. Hmmm...
Well, in fact, check this out:
(http://www.amybutlerdesign.com/images/fabrics/main_new.jpg)
It's all cotton, and doesn't have the drape of the gown in the painting, but maybe if you lined it...?
Quote from: gem on May 06, 2011, 10:28:56 AM
This one is for Lady Renee! I found a really nice large image of Kate Elizabeth Bunce's "The Keepsake," (http://www.bierstadt.org/upload1/file-admin/images/new17/Kate%20Elizabeth%20Bunce-982484.jpg) which she posted about last (?) year:
(http://www.bierstadt.org/upload1/file-admin/images/new17/Kate%20Elizabeth%20Bunce-982484.jpg)
The link takes you to a version that's even bigger!
Thank you, Gem. I think you know how much I love this picture! ;D
More new images of old favorites!
A museum in Madrid (http://www.museothyssen.org/microsites/exposiciones/2011/heroinas/index_en) has my beloved Caravaggio's St. Catherine on display this summer, and has produced a gorgeous new high-quality image of it (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c7/Michelangelo_Caravaggio_060.jpg).
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c7/Michelangelo_Caravaggio_060.jpg/459px-Michelangelo_Caravaggio_060.jpg)
I have this painting in at least three books about Caravaggio, and I had no idea that the drape behind her was blue.
ETA: Hee! I just looked at the first page of this thread, and saw my first post about St. Catherine--and the image I posted back then has been replaced by the new one!
I love the gold embroidery on her chemise.
I know! Isn't it spectacular?
(http://pic50.picturetrail.com/VOL417/1033223/17480040/396755960.jpg)
We're talking about it right now on my blog (http://elizabethcbunce.livejournal.com/76278.html). :D
I'd like to copy this outfit if its history wasn't so creepy.
Don Carlos
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_1JccNhhDQ3U/TDNRVgVyItI/AAAAAAAABRA/7abNp8Du4OM/s1600/11+Velours+rge+1558+Coello.jpg)
Why is the history creepy, Dona? My google-fu is not coming up with anything. :(
Don Carlos fell down a stairway and broke his neck. Since he was a raving lunatic as well as heir to the Spanish Empre, there are some who believe that he was murdered by his keeper on the orders of his grandfather Carlos I. Murdered while wearing that suit.
Agreed, creepy! Thank you Dona.
(http://www2.springfield.k12.il.us/schools/springfield/eliz//images/FashionLadyssper1)
An interesting look..Hmm..
(http://www.elizabethan-portraits.com/CountessWarwick.jpg)
Look at the interesting sheer sleeve! Would the sleeve under it be her Chemise?
Quote from: Devangelon on May 17, 2011, 02:02:08 PM
(http://www2.springfield.k12.il.us/schools/springfield/eliz//images/FashionLadyssper1)
An interesting look..Hmm..
(http://www.elizabethan-portraits.com/CountessWarwick.jpg)
Look at the interesting sheer sleeve! Would the sleeve under it be her Chemise?
Love the color and stripes of the first, not sure about that intense ruff.
Possibly a blackwork chemise? the sleeves look fairly form fitting, would there be room to fit chemise sleeves underneath? regardless, its a spectacular look.
I like her head piece. I wish I could get a better image of it.
I am not so keen on the 17th century Spanish ruffs either. But I do believe the bottom image shows a blackwork chemise with sheer sleeves over it.
There are several Elizabethan portraits with outer sleeves that are so sheer you almost have to go see the actual painting to see them.
I've seen several portraits with those sheer oversleeves--but I've never seen anyone recreate them. Does anyone know a costumer who's done it?
Quote from: gem on May 23, 2011, 12:50:57 PM
I've seen several portraits with those sheer oversleeves--but I've never seen anyone recreate them. Does anyone know a costumer who's done it?
I haven't seen anyone making such sheer sleeves for 16th century dresses, but I've seen some make it for 1860's dresses. It's the same concept, really, with removable lower sleeves of sheer material - but of course, the 1860's dresses doesn't have chemise sleeves underneath. Here's some examples of extant and newer dresses with sheer sleeves:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/24031486@N08/5753270694/
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-cGSIjSMcp8Y/TcK_115RR0I/AAAAAAAABUU/vHpFp1MfJDE/s1600/sheer%2Bpainting.JPG
http://kathleencrowley.blogspot.com/2008/09/autumn-colors.html
Our own Syrilla's new Elizabeth I gown being worn this season at the TNRF has amazing sheer oversleeves with a gloriously beaded undersleeve. I will find some pics and edit the post. But feel free to search around for them ... BRB!
Find pictures of this gown and you will see the amazing sleeves!
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3460/5708148685_3d99f707fa_z.jpg)
Oooh that's her new gown! wow she looks beyond fabulous!
I was oohhing and aahhing as well!!! Amazing ensemble!!
Gorgeous and breathtaking gown, for a lovely queen and lady. :)
I am always on the lookout for a new sleeve treatment in portraits.
This one looks promising.
(http://katrowberd.elizabethangeek.com/projects/2003-lucia-gown/00inspiration2.jpg)
As well as this one.... Though I wish I could find a larger version that shows the sleeve detail better.
(http://www.artantique.info/images_art/european/images_large/paolo_caliari_il_veronese.jpg)
Quote from: DonaCatalina on October 07, 2011, 11:41:41 AM
I am always on the lookout for a new sleeve treatment in portraits.
This one looks promising.
(http://katrowberd.elizabethangeek.com/projects/2003-lucia-gown/00inspiration2.jpg)
As well as this one.... Though I wish I could find a larger version that shows the sleeve detail better.
(http://www.artantique.info/images_art/european/images_large/paolo_caliari_il_veronese.jpg)
I think I may have that second image in a book at home. I'll take a look and see if I can find it, and I'll scan it Monday...
Are we talking about the sleeves on the lady-in-waiting in the back--the orange ones that look like petals, with the green velvet undersleeves? They *are* pretty spectacular, and so unusual!
I like the petalish cap sleeves, I wonder how that could be done?
I think they'd be pretty easy, really; just take a good sleeve pattern, crop it, and draft in the petal shape. But I'm guessing there's more detail there than we're seeing--trims or piping or something yummy. If you look at the *other* lady-in-waiting, the one in green on the left, she has similar sleeves, except that hers look more like extended tabs than a flower-shaped sleeve (they're not as long and seem to project more from the shoulder/strap). Either way, very fun!
Dona C, what's the origin of this painting? At a wild guess, maybe late 16th. C. Spanish?
Quote from: gem on October 07, 2011, 06:39:09 PM
Are we talking about the sleeves on the lady-in-waiting in the back--the orange ones that look like petals, with the green velvet undersleeves? They *are* pretty spectacular, and so unusual!
all three?
No actually its Italian Paolo Caliari aka Paolo Veronese.
Quote from: gem on October 07, 2011, 10:42:20 PM
I think they'd be pretty easy, really; just take a good sleeve pattern, crop it, and draft in the petal shape. But I'm guessing there's more detail there than we're seeing--trims or piping or something yummy. If you look at the *other* lady-in-waiting, the one in green on the left, she has similar sleeves, except that hers look more like extended tabs than a flower-shaped sleeve (they're not as long and seem to project more from the shoulder/strap). Either way, very fun!
Dona C, what's the origin of this painting? At a wild guess, maybe late 16th. C. Spanish?
Thank you thats what I was thinking, I may be brave and put them on the gown that I have in my head for next summer ( if it actually gets out of there its another story)
I just totally need a Florentine dress like this. I DIG the fit of the bodice and those spiraled sleeves:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v31/operafantomet/renaissanceportraits/firenze2/florschool1550sladyzeri.jpg)
Oh yes, and is that partlett not scrumptious
Yes that partlet and those sleeves are fabulous.
Ok, I've had this one planned for awhile, though the making of won't happen for a few years.
(http://i1110.photobucket.com/albums/h460/emeraldeskimo/WANTS.jpg)
I swear I see this portrait everywhere when I'm not looking for it, but now that I'm looking for it I can't find it. Can anyone tell me who the subject is? I like reading up on the people in the garb :). Past me was extremely unhelpful by saving the picture simply as "WANTS".
This is Isabella Clara Eugenia de Austria. Daughter of Phillip II of Spain.
I swear, DC! You're a walking encyclopædia! :) You never cease to amaze me... I was thinking Liberace in his younger years...
Quote from: DonaCatalina on February 09, 2012, 05:04:37 AM
This is Isabella Clara Eugenia de Austria. Daughter of Phillip II of Spain.
Thank you Dona!! It was driving me crazy that I couldn't find it!
Quote from: Magpie Flynn on February 09, 2012, 09:23:19 AM
Quote from: DonaCatalina on February 09, 2012, 05:04:37 AM
This is Isabella Clara Eugenia de Austria. Daughter of Phillip II of Spain.
Thank you Dona!! It was driving me crazy that I couldn't find it!
To put it like that: every time you see a hefty jaw sitting on top of noble clothes of the 16th and 17th century, it's probably a member of the Habsburg family... They were so notoriously known for their heavy jaws that the prognathism syndrome is still called a "Habsburg jaw"... The princess Isabella wasn't the worst example, she was fairly early in the run. But interbreeding in the 16th century cause the mid and late 17th century Habsburgers to look like this:
http://hoffstrizz.typepad.com/.a/6a0128773aba66970c0128775b7393970c-800wi
http://speedy.theanneboleynfiles.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/Charles-Vs-Habsburg-Jaw-300x300.jpg
But it is a nice portrait of the princess Isabella, and a gorgeous gown!
Actually that red dress is a Portuguese style made popular by Isabella of Portugal.
(http://hoocher.com/Tiziano_Vecelli/Titian_Empress_Isabel_of_Portugal.jpg)
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Wow, this is an inspiring thread! Thanks for so many great examples.
This painting is making me want to make something like this for my wife, in blue with gold and red trim.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Pisanello_016.jpg
I came across this one day and it's been on my mind since. I'm thinking this is wool? So unusual. I could almost imagine this being worn on the fashion runways of today. Wish I could see the rest of the gown.
Quote from: Merlin the Elder on February 09, 2012, 06:25:20 AM
I swear, DC! You're a walking encyclopædia! :) You never cease to amaze me... I was thinking Liberace in his younger years...
lol there is a strking resemblance.
Quote from: Anna Iram on February 09, 2012, 04:20:36 PM
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Pisanello_016.jpg
I came across this one day and it's been on my mind since. I'm thinking this is wool? So unusual. I could almost imagine this being worn on the fashion runways of today. Wish I could see the rest of the gown.
In Italy it is more likely to have been a weave of raw silk or silk combined with wool, or silk combined with linen. Though they did use wool also.
Quote from: DonaCatalina on February 10, 2012, 05:04:46 AM
Quote from: Anna Iram on February 09, 2012, 04:20:36 PM
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Pisanello_016.jpg
I came across this one day and it's been on my mind since. I'm thinking this is wool? So unusual. I could almost imagine this being worn on the fashion runways of today. Wish I could see the rest of the gown.
In Italy it is more likely to have been a weave of raw silk or silk combined with wool, or silk combined with linen. Though they did use wool also.
I think Anna Iram might be right. In mid Italy in the 1300s and 1400s people were more likely to wear wool cloth than silk. The wool industry in Florence alone employed around 25,000-30,000 of the city's population of 95,000; partly for export and partly for their own use. They did have a solid silk industry too in Tuscany, especially in Lucca, but the silks were mainly exports or for grand events like weddings and processions. It wasn't common for regular clothes, not even for nobility. Their silks were exported to European courts, and to the Ottoman empire.
But it should be remembered that wool cloth made of imported English wool or Spanish merino wool, and with rich Italian dyes, was considered very fine fabrics. A good wool fabric with a dark, saturated colour was more worth than your average silk.
For the Pisanello dress it is hard to tell. He was a Tuscan artist (from Pisa, hence Pisanello), but the lady in question is thought to be from the Este court in Ferrara in between Florence and Venice. If her dress has Venetian influence she might very well use silk. The pattern on the back could remind of a fine damask. But a patterned silk would usually be patterned all over. She only has it on the back of what I assume is hanging sleeves. So I would think an embroidery adorned with pearls. It's the dry texture of the fabric that makes me think it's wool.
My guess would be that her dress looks like that of the lady in Filippo Lippi's double portrait from the 1440s. There the sleeves are "a gozzi", which basically means they had a bag shape with a large hole around the elbow, and a smaller one at the wrist. It could hence be worn hanging or "regular". Underneath a dress of accenting colour was used, and the width was gathered with a belt in the waist. It's a style showing transaction from Mediaeval to Renaissance fashion.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v31/operafantomet/renaissanceportraits/firenze1/lippi1440.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v31/operafantomet/renaissanceportraits/temporary/cassonemid1400ven.jpg)
Thankyou ladies. :) Don't see myself making this, but I'm so curious about how it's put together. I understand Tudor and Elizabethan garments, but not so much medieval. I tried to search for
gozzi but nothing came up. I'm thinking it's a cousin of the houplander?
As for the underlayers, not sure what I'm looking at. Is there a sort of linen shift that I see at the throat above the rope of the gozzi and at the shoulder, the cap sleeve of linen between the orange sleeves and the gozzi? Are the sleeves tied in or sewn to a matching undergown?
Can you point me toward a link where I might see how it all goes on? Thanks!
Quote from: Anna Iram on February 10, 2012, 10:56:18 AM
Thankyou ladies. :) Don't see myself making this, but I'm so curious about how it's put together. I understand Tudor and Elizabethan garments, but not so much medieval. I tried to search for
gozzi but nothing came up. I'm thinking it's a cousin of the houplander?
As for the underlayers, not sure what I'm looking at. Is there a sort of linen shift that I see at the throat above the rope of the gozzi and at the shoulder, the cap sleeve of linen between the orange sleeves and the gozzi? Are the sleeves tied in or sewn to a matching undergown?
Can you point me toward a link where I might see how it all goes on? Thanks!
Italian style is easy enough to understand. A chemise (shift, smock, call it what you want) towards the skin, a fairly plain main dress, and a more elaborate overdress. They didn't always use an overdress, but for this particular style they did.
The last picture I posted shows the plainer dress to the right, with a high waist and wide upper sleeves, and the outfit with an overdress to the left. The overdress follows the lines of the main dress, but the sleeves are different. What I wrote - A GOZZI - just refers to the sleeves, with an opening on the elbow, and an opening at the wrist. It means "like a ball" or thereabout, if you translate it through google it calls it "goiter". :lol: Probably same origin of the word.
What you see around the neck opening and the sleeves is merely a trim, or possibly the lining of the gown finished like a roll meant to be visible from the outside. You can see the same in the double portrait I posted.
A cousin of the houppelande seems like a good description! A houppelande with two sleeve openings.
Ah! a gozzi. I didn't put in the search corectly. That opened up a whole bunch of information!
Including your site, Anea. :)
Yes, now that I look at it better I see the cap at the shoulder and the drape at the throat is just a continuation of the ovrrgown. If that is indeed wool it has an amazing drape.
So, I now know she is wearing a chioppa with sleeves a gozzi over a gamurra. Now I know a little more than I did.
..and houppelande. *laughing* I knew houpelander wasn't the right word..mean't to work on that before sending
Quote from: DonaCatalina on October 07, 2011, 11:41:41 AM
I am always on the lookout for a new sleeve treatment in portraits.
As well as this one.... Though I wish I could find a larger version that shows the sleeve detail better.
(http://www.artantique.info/images_art/european/images_large/paolo_caliari_il_veronese.jpg)
My new sage green dress is modeled after the dark dress of the kneeling woman on the left. The caplet sleeves proved much more difficult to design as a one piece sleeve than I would have thought. If I make these again, I will do the 'petals' as individual pieces and not use a thick pile velvet.
Quote from: DonaCatalina on March 16, 2012, 02:22:43 PM
My new sage green dress is modeled after the dark dress of the kneeling woman on the left.
I knew it!! You should post the image to this thread, too, Dona C! ;D
As one can see, I am attracted to the color RED!
(http://www.folger.edu/html/exhibitions/elizabeth_I/images/EXH0039.jpg)
Quote from: Lady Kathleen of Olmsted on March 16, 2012, 03:45:36 PM
As one can see, I am attracted to the color RED!
(http://www.folger.edu/html/exhibitions/elizabeth_I/images/EXH0039.jpg)
*Sigh* I would hate to sew the dress, but I would
love to work on the trim.
My daughter gifted me with a few pounds of freshwater pearls in various pastel colors when she decided she didn't want to make jewelry anymore. I literally have a cookie tin full of them, still on the strings. I also have a decent amount of semi precious beads and crystals.
Rowan!!
If I make this gown, in my spare time??? , it will be out of a rich Maroon rather than Red. The right Gold Trim, plus tons of pearls, wouls make this an eye turner. I have some fabric i bought 8 years ago that i could embroider and put pearls on for Sleeves and Forepart. Perhpas for 2013.
Quote from: gem on March 16, 2012, 03:42:33 PM
Quote from: DonaCatalina on March 16, 2012, 02:22:43 PM
My new sage green dress is modeled after the dark dress of the kneeling woman on the left.
I knew it!! You should post the image to this thread, too, Dona C! ;D
Link here :)
http://s185.photobucket.com/albums/x71/Dona_Catalina/Garb%202012/?action=view¤t=IMG_1114.jpg
In a thread a couple of weeks ago, we were talking about vertical slashing in bodices. I can't remember what that discussion was, but I found one of the portraits I was thinking of!
Sorry it's so tiny; I wanted to post this before I forgot about it and lost it again.
(http://www.oldmastersonline.com/e/P/CLF/0402.jpg)
This is Hans Holbein's portrait of Dorothea Offenburg (or one of them (http://www.gutenberg.org/files/29150/29150-h/images/img16.jpg), anyway).
Another find stumbled across today... a Nicholas de Neufchatel portrait "of a young lady" from 1561:
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/44/Nicolas_de_Neufch%C3%A2tel_-_Portrait_of_a_Young_Lady_-_Google_Art_Project.jpg/448px-Nicolas_de_Neufch%C3%A2tel_-_Portrait_of_a_Young_Lady_-_Google_Art_Project.jpg)
I saw this and *immediately* thought of a certain fond-of-pink forum member who could make a spectacular version of this! ;D
You should post that in the Pink Thread. ;D
But its a great dress.
some interesting possibilities
I really like the red velvet one. The pinking could be problematic.
(http://www.myartprints.co.uk/kunst/master_of_the_female_half_len/portrait_lady_magdalen_hi.jpg)
(http://www.arthermitage.org/Paris-Bordon/Portrait-of-a-Lady-with-a-Boy.jpg)
(http://www.artclon.com/OtherFile/Portrait-of-a-Lady-xx-Bernardino-Licinio.jpg)
(http://media-cache-ec5.pinterest.com/upload/204913851765964894_nVrxwpNS_b.jpg)
This one, for Kings Musketeers.
Our Elizabethan Group in Yahoo is thinking about helping each other get through a Complete Elizabethan taken from a Portrait during the whole of 2013, so if you would like to join the group and have fun with us? Please do so at this link: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Elizabethan-Garb/ (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Elizabethan-Garb/)
Cilean
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(http://media-cache-ec3.pinterest.com/550x/78/6b/28/786b289a486160bde151c5581885e50b.jpg)
Florentine School, Woman said to be Vittoria Colonna
Wouldn't this lovely miniature of a young Queen Elizabeth by Lavina Teerlinc (http://www.artcyclopedia.com/hot/women-artists-of-the-renaissance-1.html) be wonderful for younger teen?
(http://www.artcyclopedia.com/hot/images/women-artists-of-the-renaissance-levina-teerlinc-elizabeth-i.jpg)
Bordone- portrait of a young woman.
While I would love to see a color copy of this, I think it would be stunning in black velvet.
(http://starlightmasquerade.com/PortraitGallery/Ladder-Laced-Venetian/inspiration-images/starlight-masquerade-venetian-renaissance-costume-10-paris-bordone.jpg)
I would love to have something like this to wear... even though I'm guessing I would be stoned in the street for wandering about in my underwear!
(http://uploads4.wikipaintings.org/images/titian/portrait-of-a-lady.jpg!Blog.jpg)
It just looks so wonderfully comfortable!
Actually, Rani, that is a dress in the Turkish style - VERY popular in Italy. I've made several (I might wear my purple and blue one this weekend - we'll see) and have a page up on the differences between Turkish and Italian wearing of the style.
http://isabelladangelo.webs.com/turkishcoat.htm (http://isabelladangelo.webs.com/turkishcoat.htm)
So, nope, no stoning. ;D
Oh, really? Good to know! I adore the cut, and the color is simply amazing! The trim is gorgeous, as well... and the chemise looks as fine as silk. I am definitely into lovely comfort...
Thank you for the link, Isabella! I'll go take a long look this evening! :)
The chemise is done in a very fine linen most likely. Cotton is a good possibility too - as it was used among the upper classes in Italy (Egypt was known for cotton even then and had really good trade routes to Italy)
I've seen the painting often as it's just downtown for me. :-)
http://www.nga.gov/content/ngaweb/Collection/art-object-page.435.html (http://www.nga.gov/content/ngaweb/Collection/art-object-page.435.html)
Ohhhh... the magnification tool is wonderful! Now I REALLY want to wear this! It's lovely...
How lucky you are to have these treasures so close! :)
(https://scontent-b-dfw.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn2/1208914_10151808979121280_1310325867_n.jpg)
I am going to make this gown in a Blood Red Velveteen. I have wide, bright gold trim that I will use with 8mm pearls down the center. Not sure what the contrast fabric will be. I am also going to add tabs along the waist line of the Bodice, as well as a double row of Shoulder rolls.
Gown should be ready by Mid march 2014, as I will be at my goal weight by then. I have lost 26 1/2 already.