I first like to start by saying that in no way am I trying to start a thread with any intent or offending anyone or their Faire fun.
I am a performer for a few shows that each have there own respective time periods that they are representing, give or take a few exceptions. I notice that at many of the pirate shows there is rarely anyone dressed in garb from the 16th century. However at many Renfaires around the country from photos posted it seems that pirates in waistcoats and overcoats from the 18th century have invaded the 16th century of many shows. Granted, while not everyone is of course, looking to be completely historically accurate for whatever reason, most of the time it being that people are just looking to dress up and have a good time, I find it perplexing that very rarely do you see people playing pirates as they were in the Elizabethan Era. The Spanish and English most assuredly pirated each others ships giving rise to such names as Francis Drake. Why do you suppose it is that people never attempt to play this sort of pirate at a Renfaire rather than the stereotype? I think it would be a welcome change...thoughts?
Vincente
Who wants a challenge? We go to faire to have fun.
I think it's because 16th century seaman's clothing just doesn't scream "pirate" like the 18th century Hollywood-esque pirate garb does. And lets be honest- The majority of fairegoers is more interested in "Ooooooh! Shiney!" than historical accuracy.
That be the way of it, sealion. As performers, we gots to give the public what they wants.
Pirates in pumkin pants, tights and doublets is not what they are expecting. And your right seamens clothes of the 1500-1600 time frame def don't look like the GAoP ( 1680-1720) pirates. In fact historically correct seamens clothes from the GAoP doesnt really look like screen pirates stuff either. The Brigands are at least
70% HC in our garb, but for the GAoP.
But we work at the faires. Patron, playtron and the like can do what ever the heck they want and the Faire pirates get pretty out there, as we all know. I says if yer having a good time, wear what you like.
But pirates, in what ever guise, are a part of Renn Faire, for what ever reason. THANK GOD!
GAoP = Golden Age of Piracy - re-enactor speak for this period.
Yeah, not many people would recognise someone in a short coat, knee pants, latchette shoes, and a thrum cap as a pirate.
Besides, bucket boots are so damned cool! ;D
I think it's gotten to be a little overdone. But I also thinks it's a fad that will fade in time.
The next big period action movie will probably spawn a lot of characters.
Sort of like Kingdom of Heaven did, though not on as large a scale as Pirates of the Caribbean did.
Do you remember the hordes of kilts at Faire after Braveheart?
Now the Scots barely have enough members for their pike brigade.
But there will always be affionados of the Henrician and Elizabethan periods who continue to go to Faire also. Because that's what we love and that's how we have fun.
Quote from: DonaCatalina on August 28, 2009, 07:55:59 AM
The next big period action movie will probably spawn a lot of characters.
Sort of like Kingdom of Heaven did, though not on as large a scale as Pirates of the Caribbean did.
Hey!!!! Why did you have to go there?! :'(
Madame Catalina, I tend to respectfully disagree that pirates will fade the way of the kilted pseudoscot.
Why? From my own experience at Faire. I first attended NYRF many years ago ( 15+), in chain mailed, mantled, helmed glory. BUT, the pirates ( and yes pirates at faire were present even then) had much more fun. Better adult beverages. Better songs! And bucket boots are damn cool, as we all know.
Perhaps the discussion should be instead of Pirates and Rennfaire, Rennfaire vs Reenactment ?
Renfaire is entertainment with perhaps some education shoved in sideways
Reenactment is education with some entertainment ( though some reenactments you need to look mighty hard to see the entertainment factor).
Perhaps we can inculcate more of both into both? I know we try to bring more historically correct music to the stage ( as much as we can get away with).
Is there not room for both at Faire?
Quote from: Mad Jack Wolfe on August 28, 2009, 07:53:23 AM
Besides, bucket boots are so damned cool! ;D
They certainly get
my attention. Besides, I'd rather look at a pirate than a noble anyday!
Their hats are better, too! ;)
Personally, I think it has to do with the entertainment and fun value of it.
Its the same reason you don't see many playtrons in peasant garb, its just not fun. Who wants to spend their few fun days being and feeling as "boring" as they feel they do in mundane life and work.
Granted I don't have much experience compared to most people on the board and I have only been attending faire for a few years, but it really seems that generally the people that are sticklers for historical accuracy in costume are generally playing nobles or at the very least middle class.
I hope no one takes my comments in the wrong, I am just giving air to my observations.
Personally, I plan to attend pirate faire this fall and have spent several months doing research on the type of justacorps that I will be making for myself, making sure I create something that would fit in the time frame that I want to inhabit. I'm going for mid 1600s privateer (who thinks quite highly of herself) with a few maybe captain hook style flairs :), but definitely not going to hang up on being historically accurate about everything.
It's faire, not SCA. If people are playtrons, not employees, then it's their nickle & their garb. I get a kick out of it all, from the HA sticklers to the kilted stormtrooper. I don't think GAoP pirates will fade from fashion - it's just too much fun. Some Jack wannabes will fade away, but we've been promised a new POTC in, what, 2012? to repique that faction and piracy in general. Besides, pirates is schmexy in their cool bucket boots.
Quote from: Taffy Saltwater on August 28, 2009, 09:04:57 AM
It's faire, not SCA.
Sorry for straying off topic but I have to say that I've not found the SCA to be
that different from faire as far as garb goes. You have a few in fabulous historically accurate garb, you have those (like me) who are trying but still have a long way to go, and you have more than you might think who are dressed in what we think of as the typical ren faire garb. The only real difference is that everyone is in some kind of garb. No one wandering about in jeans and a t-shirt. I personally feel like the SCA is sort of the middle ground between faire and the re-enactment groups where everyone is trying to recreate a specific time and place with very high standards for garb and equipment.
The cold bitter truth is Pirates = $$$ (at least by a Faire production standpoint).
It's exposing a new crowd to the Faire environment and I think that something we can all appreciate. Even if the garb isn't 100% HA, oh well no-one likes the garb Nazi.
That being said I personally enjoy the unique pirates much more than the Jack Sparrow wannabes. The true pirates will continue to garb as they please long after the luster of those movies subsides.
Quote from: Welsh Wench on August 28, 2009, 08:30:31 AM
Quote from: Mad Jack Wolfe on August 28, 2009, 07:53:23 AM
Besides, bucket boots are so damned cool! ;D
They certainly get my attention. Besides, I'd rather look at a pirate than a noble anyday!
Their hats are better, too! ;)
ahem...
;D
Quote from: Count Adolfo on August 28, 2009, 10:35:42 AM
Quote from: Welsh Wench on August 28, 2009, 08:30:31 AM
Quote from: Mad Jack Wolfe on August 28, 2009, 07:53:23 AM
Besides, bucket boots are so damned cool! ;D
They certainly get my attention. Besides, I'd rather look at a pirate than a noble anyday!
Their hats are better, too! ;)
ahem...
;D
Yeah, the truth can be painful. ;) :D
I'm cool with it.
What I am deadly tired of is all the "Zombie Jacks" I see (my term for them anyway). I'm sure you've seen them. They dress like Ol' Jack Sparrow but don't have the drunken drag queen walk down so they walk with their hands extended in front of them like a T-rex...unmoving.
Personally I like to see Pirates in waist coats, Gypsies in bangly scarves, Scotsmen in pleated kilts, Noble gentry in bright hose and Ladys in over the top bodices. Love the Fae and fantasy folk too. And still I truly appreciating the HA garb too! It's all "Rennie" and I love it!
I do dislike Sci-Fi types at fest but won't make a deal of it.
Ciao,
There are some well noted points here. And I think it is true that many people enjoy the pirates era. I saw something in another thread to that did mention as we have in here that pirate=money, and it is true. Since there are so popular, especially now, vendors will stock the merchandise that sell and in turn it can be seen around the sites.
I have never been a complete HA garber, I will admit. As an actor I try to do as much research as possible to make something as close to the period as possible, but there is the unsaid rule that, "What the audience cannot see, does not betray the effect" (i.e. a hidden zipper on and undergarment or something to that effect). There is a certain element of show that is observed and the conventions that go with it. I guess what I was getting at with the OP is that, when I go to a Pirate Faire I like to play a member of society from that century (normally a HMRN Officer), if I go to Renfaire I want to wear something from the 16th Century. I don't think it is a question of whether it is the definition of the type of show, whether being entertainment (Faire), or historical (Reenactment). While there is a difference that is not the issue here really.
Again, to each their own and I am glad that everyone has a good time when they come out, that is indeed the most important thing. I guess I would just like to see some more ideas from the renaissance that are overlooked at various venues coming back to the shows (Commedia dell'Arte, Alchemists, Inventors, Visiting Nobility, Members of the Church, Yeomen, and the like).
Just saying...
Vincente
P.S. Not sure about playtrons, but I know many a performer who would much rather play lower and middle class characters as they claim them to be more fun. Something about less rules when no one of "authority" is around leaves them open for really great and person bits of fun with guests and in the lanes.
Quote from: Welsh Wench on August 28, 2009, 08:30:31 AM
Quote from: Mad Jack Wolfe on August 28, 2009, 07:53:23 AM
Besides, bucket boots are so damned cool! ;D
Besides, I'd rather look at a pirate than a noble anyday!
AAAAAWWWWWW wenchie you hurt my feelings!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Blakduke, you are in a class by yourself!
I'd run down the hill for you anyday.
Or meet you halfway. ;D
Quote from: Visconte Vincente on August 28, 2009, 03:11:00 PM
P.S. Not sure about playtrons, but I know many a performer who would much rather play lower and middle class characters as they claim them to be more fun. Something about less rules when no one of "authority" is around leaves them open for really great and person bits of fun with guests and in the lanes.
Yes, yes. Kicking peasants and beheading dissenters of the Holy Roman Empire is only so much fun in a day. After a while, they all muddy-up and their heads all roll the same. ;)
Though I have known nobility to have fun jumping in puddles when it rains. It's only after that you look at your garb and say, I did WHAT?!? :o
Fantasy, pirate, peasant, nobility...it's all fun (albeit different shades of fun) if the faire bug has already bitten you and your garb/the weather-of-the-day combination isn't killing you. I think we can all agree that passing out is NO fun no matter who you're playing.
QuoteI guess I would just like to see some more ideas from the renaissance that are overlooked at various venues coming back to the shows (Commedia dell'Arte, Alchemists, Inventors, Visiting Nobility, Members of the Church, Yeomen, and the like).
Indeed, yes!
To answer your original post: It is more the mindless Jack Sparrow copycats that bug me more than later-era-pirate characters who actually take the initiative to develop their own personality. It's not so much even H/A pirate vs. later pirate: Just give whatever you do some flair/personality and not just use it as an excuse to get drunk and then harass others.
It would be nice to see more Renaissance characters.
I concur with Kathryn... I am more perturbed by those who seem to lack even a shred of originality... than those who are anachronistic in their timeline choices.
As for visiting Nobility, my friend... you're stuck with me
Quote from: Mad Jack Wolfe on August 28, 2009, 11:02:08 AM
Quote from: Count Adolfo on August 28, 2009, 10:35:42 AM
Quote from: Welsh Wench on August 28, 2009, 08:30:31 AM
Quote from: Mad Jack Wolfe on August 28, 2009, 07:53:23 AM
Besides, bucket boots are so damned cool! ;D
They certainly get my attention. Besides, I'd rather look at a pirate than a noble anyday!
Their hats are better, too! ;)
Just for that, I am going to have the MOST AMAZING hat put together...
;D
ahem...
;D
Yeah, the truth can be painful. ;) :D
I have seen enough Jack clones to make me wanna hurt something!
But this summer I got into a pinch this summer and had to shanghi a friend of mine to work for a bit. I sell garlands so there ya go but my friend dresses like a pirate he pulled more girls is just stand there than me hawking my brains out!
But I like the pirate element at fair thats what I dress as when i am not at my shop so there ya go..
I am getting paged by an angry 2 year old so I must leave it at that
Quote from: Count Adolfo on August 28, 2009, 11:13:12 PM
As for visiting Nobility, my friend... you're stuck with me
Don't you mean they are stuck with us, il mio fratello? ;)
Quote from: Sir Sebastian Phoenix on August 28, 2009, 10:24:33 AM
The cold bitter truth is Pirates = $$$ (at least by a Faire production standpoint).
It's exposing a new crowd to the Faire environment and I think that something we can all appreciate. Even if the garb isn't 100% HA, oh well no-one likes the garb Nazi.
That being said I personally enjoy the unique pirates much more than the Jack Sparrow wannabes. The true pirates will continue to garb as they please long after the luster of those movies subsides.
Pirate dollars help pay for my playpen just like we saw Star Wars characters and the ladies in the chain mail bikinis. If it won't get you thrown into jail, wear what you want.
The 18th century garb isn't acceptable if you're a participant, but we have our own privateers and some visitors are starting to have their costumes evolve. Sir Francis Drake as been a major theme character at RPFS for decades.
I occasionally have a bit of trouble when folks expect me to interact at an 18th century level so I generally try to have them educate me by questioning them about where they're from, etc.
As has been pointed out, we're there to entertain, not be costume nazi's. We have to satisfy the costume department and be in character, ourselves. Visitors don't have that requirement. and it's really counter productive and hurts the event to try to make it so.
After all, I'm rolling around on probably the biggest anachronism at faire.
Quote from: Adriana Rose on August 29, 2009, 12:13:43 AM
I have seen enough Jack clones to make me wanna hurt something!
Making a game of it can be interesting--something like a scavenger hunt. How many Captain Jacks have you seen in the last hour, etc.
We played Slap Jack ;D
Its like slug bug but with Jacks it was fun!
Well - Pirate or not, I think it is mostly in good fun.
My first experience with being a patron at faire was only three years ago. Since then I can still count all the times I have ever been to faire on one hand and not yet use all my fingers. (Though I will finally add the fifth finger next weekend - HUZZAH)
In that time I have seen incredibly convincing Jack Sparrow, Jack Sparrow who ordered their costume online and can't act to save his life, scotsmen, kilted pirates, knights, wenches, nobles, elves, etc... I personally love the history of the renaissance, but I also love pirates and the sea, and then I turn around an LARP as an elf. So I see and love all aspects of the faire. What drew me in so much was not the perfect historical accuracies in it.
I like historical accuracies, don't get me wrong. It's part of the reason I love places like Colonial Williamsburg or Plymouth Plantation. But at the same time I loved being in an environment that had many things I loved and had people that didn't care who I was in a sense that, they weren't going to pick on me for not fitting in. They accepted me for who I was, historically acurate or not and that was very welcoming.
So to me? Who cares which period of pirate arrives. As long as you have some of the historical characters as well, you have a very welcoming environment with something that most everyone can enjoy!
Quote from: Visconte Vincente on August 29, 2009, 01:02:31 AM
Quote from: Count Adolfo on August 28, 2009, 11:13:12 PM
As for visiting Nobility, my friend... you're stuck with me
Don't you mean they are stuck with us, il mio fratello? ;)
si, mio fratello, mi dispiace! Non ho pensato!
Are the pirates I see at most renfaires accurate? No. but are they having fun? I hope so. Thats what they pay to get in for. The pirates aren't the worst that you can see at a faire. from the stories I've heard from friends working at other faires around the country, the Sparrow wannabe's are more accurate then the majority of the cast at select fairs. At least pirates did exist in pre-industrial European culture at some point. Some of the characters I've heard about don't even exist in the stories. Lets face it, some faires are more H/A then others, some, H/A doesn't even enter the equation.
Quote from: sealion on August 28, 2009, 09:30:42 AM
Quote from: Taffy Saltwater on August 28, 2009, 09:04:57 AM
It's faire, not SCA.
Sorry for straying off topic but I have to say that I've not found the SCA to be that different from faire as far as garb goes. You have a few in fabulous historically accurate garb, you have those (like me) who are trying but still have a long way to go, and you have more than you might think who are dressed in what we think of as the typical ren faire garb. The only real difference is that everyone is in some kind of garb. No one wandering about in jeans and a t-shirt. I personally feel like the SCA is sort of the middle ground between faire and the re-enactment groups where everyone is trying to recreate a specific time and place with very high standards for garb and equipment.
I'll admit, there are some SCA members who are VERY good at the historical research and make very impressive outfits and recreations of the trades. Despite that though I'm unsure how the SCA got a reputation as being a standard of accuracy for middle ages and Renaissance living history. For as many of the gems that put in all the effort of accuracy, I've met many more that have fully interpretive theories about what "could have been" and claim, "if they would have known about it, they would have used it" I work at an educational renfaire and work very hard at creting an H/A
appearance to the faire grounds and an accurate presentaion of how things were done. its hard for me to take seriously someone who points out "Thats not historically accurate!" when they are wearing garb made from polyester fleece and come from a group that host an online directory that has instructions on how to make armor from stopsigns and old computer cases, and how to make "historically accurate candles" by buying cheep candles from walmart and heating them in water to give them a more irregular look. </end rant>
BACK TO THE PIRATES!!If you think there are a bunch of jack look-a-likes at a renfaire, you should head to St Louis for our 3 weekend Pirate festival that starts in 2 weeks. One year there were so many Jack Sparrows running around, you could toss a rock across the road and hit at least 4 before the rock hit the ground!
You know, it you take away the stupid eye shadow, dreads,. dangly crap in his hair and bucket boots, Jack Sparrows costume is not all that off from HA. In fact I use a JS weskit in my garb, made in fabic that is HA and infact discolors and wears like HA material ( some sort of linen I believe). For brown eyed, dark long haired pirates, the temptation to do a JS imitation must be pretty compulsive. For us red haired, blue eyed pirates.. well we forge our own image.
Pirates are here to stay at faire, and ye best make chummies with them, since there is naught for dirty tricks like a freebooter of the sea.
I don't mean this negatively, but it seems like this topic comes up really often. Why are people so concerned with the presence of pirates at Faire? They are certainly not the only non-HA aspect. I never see anyone discussing the presence of belly dancers or fairies at Faire. What is it about pirates?
Again, don't take this the wrong way. I'm just wondering.
I've been wondering the same thing myself, Charlotte. The fact is, pirates ARE period correct, for virtually any period in history. Granted, pirates from the Golden Age of Piracy aren't HA for the Renaissance, but neither are fairies, elves, dwarves, wee kilts, fops, Steampunks, etcetera, but those never seem to come up in these discussions. Why some are apparently eager for pirates to disappear is most curious to me.
pirates are just hot...plain and simple, and a welcome sight at faire in my eyes!
Mad Jack Wolfe hit the nail on the head!
Quote from: ~pixie~ on September 01, 2009, 09:07:38 AM
pirates are just hot...plain and simple, and a welcome sight at faire in my eyes!
Now THAT is the God's Own Truth!
Quote from: ~pixie~ on September 01, 2009, 09:07:38 AM
pirates are just hot...plain and simple, and a welcome sight at faire in my eyes!
And as long as there are Wicked Wenches, there will be pirates sighted! We have more fun...
"something ....something....something......Dark Side!"
Quote from: Mad Jack Wolfe on September 01, 2009, 09:05:26 AM
Why some are apparently eager for pirates to disappear is most curious to me.
I don't think it is pirates that are really being slammed so much. Maybe some aren't articulating it quite right here, but in the conversations I have had at more than a few faires in the northeast is more a criticism of the impression of the lack of imagination and originality one is left with when seeing a dozen or more Jack Sparrows in a single day.
I mean, for most characters you see at faire, it is rare to see two of anything even close to being the same. I have been to a few faires where there are many elves wandering about, but I have never seen one and thought "Hey, that's a pretty good Legolas."
I love seeing a little bit of everything at the faire. The pirate thing isn't for me, but I have found myself having a good look at many men (and women, Arrrrgh) of the sea and walking away impressed with the creativity and attention to detail of the costumes and the characters the person has developed, whether H/A or not.
I just don't want to see a dozen Jack Sparrows in a day, although it is funny seeing them eye each other's garb jealously at the pub or try to avoid being too close to each other on the grounds. It's like two women wearing the same dress to a function.
Robert, could it just be that you folks in those clanking suits are a wee bit envious of the pirates ( not you personally). I mean Knights used to be the hot ticket to be at Renn Faire. Hell, I was one once too.
I dare say pirates eclipse even the most dashing Cavalier or pumpkin panted nobleman in that regard.
Pirates have leeway to do the most dastardly tricks ( for faire), drink the best beverages, wear cooler ( temperature wise) garb. Pirates are not dashing or noble or even particularly good natured - but the wenches love us!
WHo esle but a Pirate at Faire can call out to patrons with kids "Sell us your daughter! Yes, all your childeren! We have gold for them! " , brand passers-by with the pirate P and generally cause mayhem?
Plus , if you're adept at seamans shipboard terms, you can freely insult anyone and they will have no idea !
It's all in good fun, and that IS the most important thing!
Quote from: Seamus Ex Machina on September 01, 2009, 07:12:59 PM
Quote from: ~pixie~ on September 01, 2009, 09:07:38 AM
pirates are just hot...plain and simple, and a welcome sight at faire in my eyes!
And as long as there are Wicked Wenches, there will be pirates sighted! We have more fun...
"something ....something....something......Dark Side!"
Yeah, Seamus does OK.....(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e65/welshwench/DSC01103.jpg)
Can you even FIND Seamus?
I love pirates at faire! Of course, I usually am one ;)
But I also love knights, nobles, fairies, belly dancers. And even Storm Troopers. I'm just there to have fun, to indulge my love for history, fantasy and theater all at once. And to be with my fairemily. As long as we're ahving a good time, all else matters very little to me.
Quote from: Mad Jack Wolfe on September 01, 2009, 09:05:26 AM
I've been wondering the same thing myself, Charlotte. The fact is, pirates ARE period correct, for virtually any period in history. Granted, pirates from the Golden Age of Piracy aren't HA for the Renaissance, but neither are fairies, elves, dwarves, wee kilts, fops, Steampunks, etcetera, but those never seem to come up in these discussions. Why some are apparently eager for pirates to disappear is most curious to me.
Touche'. It is very true that there are many different things found at faire that are not necessarily HA or even real for that matter. I know that some faires are Renn and Fantasy and in that case the fairies, elves, dwarves, etc. are great additions. Though I will say that it is my experience and also having talked to casts at other shows that many Renfaires now have fairies as a part of their cast. As for the steampunk and stormtroopers and Halo (yeah, we had one this year) characters, I would say that there is not necessarily a niche built into the faire for those types of characters; though again guest come wearing what they like to have fun in and they are paying so, whatever.
As for singling out Pirates, you are right in that all the other above should be mentioned as well. I guess that since I am in an area where we have quite a few pirate festivals and a few Renfaires, it just has me wondering why folks don't open themselves up and try to diversify the looks for different shows. I know garb is expensive. But as you said there are pirates in almost every period in history. I for one would love to see some Ren style pirates! It is not something that is done that much compared to pirates from the GAOP. Then again too, it may be that in many places, there are not so many shows available for pirates as there are in my local. That then would create a situation in which one does not have the opportunity to go to a show set in the GAOP, so what is the next closest thing...renfaire.
All in all, I think pirates are great additions to any show, but I personally, would just love to see them in the right era of piracy for a show. Again, not trying to offend anyone, but that is just where I am coming from.
The only time you have to be HA is if you're a participant. And woe to the participant who criticizes a customer's garb. We're there to entertain, not kill the gate.
Quote from: Visconte Vincente on September 03, 2009, 06:45:19 PM
Quote from: Mad Jack Wolfe on September 01, 2009, 09:05:26 AM
I've been wondering the same thing myself, Charlotte. The fact is, pirates ARE period correct, for virtually any period in history. Granted, pirates from the Golden Age of Piracy aren't HA for the Renaissance, but neither are fairies, elves, dwarves, wee kilts, fops, Steampunks, etcetera, but those never seem to come up in these discussions. Why some are apparently eager for pirates to disappear is most curious to me.
Touche'. It is very true that there are many different things found at faire that are not necessarily HA or even real for that matter. I know that some faires are Renn and Fantasy and in that case the fairies, elves, dwarves, etc. are great additions. Though I will say that it is my experience and also having talked to casts at other shows that many Renfaires now have fairies as a part of their cast. As for the steampunk and stormtroopers and Halo (yeah, we had one this year) characters, I would say that there is not necessarily a niche built into the faire for those types of characters; though again guest come wearing what they like to have fun in and they are paying so, whatever.
As for singling out Pirates, you are right in that all the other above should be mentioned as well. I guess that since I am in an area where we have quite a few pirate festivals and a few Renfaires, it just has me wondering why folks don't open themselves up and try to diversify the looks for different shows. I know garb is expensive. But as you said there are pirates in almost every period in history. I for one would love to see some Ren style pirates! It is not something that is done that much compared to pirates from the GAOP. Then again too, it may be that in many places, there are not so many shows available for pirates as there are in my local. That then would create a situation in which one does not have the opportunity to go to a show set in the GAOP, so what is the next closest thing...renfaire.
All in all, I think pirates are great additions to any show, but I personally, would just love to see them in the right era of piracy for a show. Again, not trying to offend anyone, but that is just where I am coming from.
Not offended! I just find it curious, that's all. I think that you are right that for instance, in Minnesota, there are no pirate faires. (Okay, there is a little one on the other side of WI, but I've never been able to make it out there.) If I had the opportunity to go to a GaOP event, I might wear my pirate garb less often at MNRF. Maybe. I might not, though. I really like my pirate garb. :)
I'm not so sure that having a Pirate festival in the same area as a Renaissance festival really changes too much how many people show up as a pirate to the renfaire. here in STL we have both a renfaire and a pirate-fest hosted on the same grounds about 2~3 months apart. the piratefest is set in the mid 1700's, and the renfaire in the early 1500's.
I definately see more pirates at the p/f, but there don't seem to be fewer pirates at the r/f then there were before we started the p/f a few years ago.
I've been a pirate from my first step onto renn faire soil. (That goes without saying if you know me for longer than five minutes.) I have also attended separate pirate themed events, many of which were created by my friends. Those events don't take away from anything, but give us another reason to drink and be merry.
Between the fake costumes, the fantasy characters (elves, faeries, etc), and movie characters who show up every day, why are the pirates getting picked on? I carry a much bigger dagger...
PS I didn't hear any arguement from the knights I met this weekend! In fact, I never do.
Quote from: Catastrophe on September 10, 2009, 10:56:49 AM
Between the fake costumes, the fantasy characters (elves, faeries, etc), and movie characters who show up every day, why are the pirates getting picked on? I carry a much bigger dagger...
Who's picking on the pirates? You're more than welcome. Have a good time whatever you're wearing. The only folks who have to be HA are the participants (exceptions are made such as Lightning Scooter-Horse). Otherwise, if it won't get you arrested, enjoy.
I was thinking of trading in me pirate persona o' Mickey Flint and becomin' one o' those STORMTROOPERS. They seem to get all the wenches.
As fer HA, our fair at BARF be graced with His Majesty, King Henry VIII. I do have in me possession, a copy o a letter of marque signed by his hand in the year of our lord 1543. I do be hoping fer him to present a copy o' this letter to our Crew of the Harbinger this season, As such, I do be looking into creating a garb ensemble to match the period.
I don't think my countryman ;D was "picking on" anyone at all... and those who live elsewhere may not really fully understand from where he comes in this inquiry... but here in Florida, there are a great number of Pirate festivals.
Specifically pirate.
Now, truth be told, if you attend one of those multiple festivals, you may be treated to the sight of a few non-pirate rennie types... so we do the "turnabout is faire play" thing here...
Now, I DO think it's kinda funny when the stormtroopers arrive at Faires... but then again... I've gone to a Sci-Fi convention in garb... so...
Mickey, I think that's wonderful that you are working on a more period correct pirate persona. True, many may not instantly "get" that you are a pirate compared to something more expected, but I think you'll add something very interesting to the tapestry of our faire while still being true to your character. :)
Ok, now I now I am getting old.... I thought the subject was PRIVIES at ren faire - your thoughts...... and my thoughts were nae verra good.....
Pirates on the other hand - that's much better!
LOL..I have the same problem now and again, just mis read now and again. Someone started a thread abouts boots and leaking and I read it as boobs!! I thought...yikes!!
..and don't even *want* to think about HA privies....
Quote from: Anna Iram on October 06, 2009, 12:50:03 PM
LOL..I have the same problem now and again, just mis read now and again. Someone started a thread abouts boots and leaking and I read it as boobs!! I thought...yikes!!
..and don't even *want* to think about HA privies....
OK LOL
H/A Privies might not be so bad, if a little weird, depending on your rank. A noble's gentleman or lady of the stool in the Renaissance was responsible for emptying the pots under the velvet chamber stools. So a noble might never have first hand knowledge of a general use privy.
-no smells, no muss and no fuss.
Read a little about Henry VIII's longtime Gentleman of the Stool and his dealing with Henry's chronic constipation.
- no offense meant to VIII of course -
Dress as pirate? Fine.
Get into pirate character at faire? Fine.
Have a few drinks while you're there? Fine.
Embrace the child within at faire? Fine.
But, please, don't use "being at pirate" as a reason to get terribly sloshed and then as an excuse to harass others. I don't know, maybe it's because of all the guild BS at my home faire, but I'm sick of the pirates who have turned the whole matter into a mass-produced, in-thing, exclusive club used to bully and cause trouble with others both inside and outside the gates. Maybe if it were just at faire, and folks left the drama at the gates, it would be fine, but when it spills into everyday life as well, it gets on my nerves. As much as we would like to think otherwise, faire is NOT the real world. The sad thing is, the people who cause it don't even realize it. I'm sorry, but it ruins my fun at faire when false rumors are being spread, I'm treated like garbage, and I'm being taken advantage of by those who are too far gone to understand that "no" means "NO", with their excuse being "I'm a pirate, I can get away with anything since pirates aren't meant to follow the rules". It makes me not want to go back when the maltreatment extends even further to outside of the gates via the Internet by the Pirate Guild.
That being said, if you can keep it so you have fun without infringing on others' rights or fun, go ahead! I'm not a tightwad by any means, I just wish for the same right to have fun and respect as the next person.
Taken at MNRF on Sept. 19th, Talk Like A Pirate Day! This was just a small portion of the pirates that can be found at any given time at MNRF.
(http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e231/piekkola/RF/TLaPD2009.jpg)
And the pirates are *the nicest* people at MNRF! :)
I love pirates at faire, though I'm sick to death of all the Jack Sparrows. I remember around the time Dead Man's Chest came out it seemed like every faire I went to was invaded by a Jack Sparrow army. It got really bad at GLMF when pirate weekend rolled around, you couldn't walk ten feet without bumping into a JS wannabe. We were bird watching all weekend!
;D ;D ;D
It was amusing, there were something like 20 of them counted in ONE DAY. Sheesh.
Other than JS, I loves me some pirates at faire. H/A, GAoP, and everything in between. Granted, real life pirates were NOT nice people, but pirates at faire - there's just a certain kind of glamour there!
Since I caught some flack from my post, let me just say:
NEVER did I say ALL pirates are bad! I just said I'd had some bad run-ins with people who can't always distinguish the fantasy of faire from reality, taking things wayyy too far into the real world where it has no place to be. By all means, dress as a pirate (I do for the pirate events in my state, would at the Ren events if I hadn't just gone through a custom order nobility ensemble that a. cost a lot and b. I love) if it suits you. Just be nice about it. I've met some very nice, sexy, cool pirates so I know you are out there!
Quote from: Kathryn (Fae) Weldon on October 07, 2009, 11:53:12 PM
I've met some very nice, sexy, cool pirates so I know you are out there!
Why, thank you....
Quote from: Kathryn (Fae) Weldon on October 07, 2009, 11:53:12 PM
Since I caught some flack from my post, let me just say:
NEVER did I say ALL pirates are bad! I just said I'd had some bad run-ins with people who can't always distinguish the fantasy of faire from reality, taking things wayyy too far into the real world where it has no place to be. By all means, dress as a pirate (I do for the pirate events in my state, would at the Ren events if I hadn't just gone through a custom order nobility ensemble that a. cost a lot and b. I love) if it suits you. Just be nice about it. I've met some very nice, sexy, cool pirates so I know you are out there!
I think I know what you mean, Kathryn, and I agree with you. Yes, dress like a pirate and have fun. Even though pirates in those days were swashbucklers who got away with stuff because they were pirates, and who knows how much of it was myth and legend and how much was really true, you are NOT a pirate. You are a person dressing up like a pirate. And conventional laws of behavior for this century demand that you act like we expect you to, and not do what you normally wouldn't do under the excuse that a pirate can get away with it.
Is that what you're saying Kathryn? Because that's how I feel.
And I love pirates at faire! After all, sometimes Lady Renee Buchanan becomes the dreaded pirate Redbird Annie Cardinal, keeper of the parrot on the Ocean Motion. ;D
NO EXCUSE FOR ACTING INAPPROPRIATELY ! Wet faires have a responsibility to the patrons in general to remove those who are past the point of public intoxication, just like any bar or club.
If the excuse is 'Pirates were nasty guys and we're just acting like pirates", call them out on thier garb. Chances are they are typical Renn-Faire pirates and have zero to do with historical accuracy. If they actually looked like threadworn, dirty, smelly and unkempt seamen, on shore for a short bit before returning to thier smelly, dirty, threadworn and frequently wormridden ship, then you could easily avoid them.
Quote from: Lady Renee Buchanan on October 08, 2009, 05:52:34 AM
Quote from: Kathryn (Fae) Weldon on October 07, 2009, 11:53:12 PM
Since I caught some flack from my post, let me just say:
NEVER did I say ALL pirates are bad! I just said I'd had some bad run-ins with people who can't always distinguish the fantasy of faire from reality, taking things wayyy too far into the real world where it has no place to be. By all means, dress as a pirate (I do for the pirate events in my state, would at the Ren events if I hadn't just gone through a custom order nobility ensemble that a. cost a lot and b. I love) if it suits you. Just be nice about it. I've met some very nice, sexy, cool pirates so I know you are out there!
I think I know what you mean, Kathryn, and I agree with you. Yes, dress like a pirate and have fun. Even though pirates in those days were swashbucklers who got away with stuff because they were pirates, and who knows how much of it was myth and legend and how much was really true, you are NOT a pirate. You are a person dressing up like a pirate. And conventional laws of behavior for this century demand that you act like we expect you to, and not do what you normally wouldn't do under the excuse that a pirate can get away with it.
Is that what you're saying Kathryn? Because that's how I feel.
And I love pirates at faire! After all, sometimes Lady Renee Buchanan becomes the dreaded pirate Redbird Annie Cardinal, keeper of the parrot on the Ocean Motion. ;D
Exactly, Renee!
I take exception to the "Fairies and Elves aren't real" thing. I've seen them, haven't you? So to the Fae and Elves some of us know that there you are out there. I do belive in fairies...
Jay Byrd