RenaissanceFestival.com Forums

....but

Lets try to not have to use this sentence.  I have seen it an awful lot lately.  If its not period it doesnt belong.   There are just TOO many things happening here to have non period items or comments.

Current comments can stay up (reluctantly) but new ones will be burned as plague.

Thank you for your help!

Could we maybe set up an area in the Back Stage area to show/discuss non-ren projects?

THis was discussed some time ago in the old room by the moderators.  RF provides a large number of areas to it's members.  To keep adding more areas would be a strain on the system and the Amdin.  We are very careful about new areas being added.

At this point the answer will have to be .... No.

 *blushes* I sorry I am an offender of such a topic.... I do think it would be nice if we had a place, perhaps not a new area, but an area that would be appropriate for such topics... because many of us do dabble in mundane projects and sometimes we need support in whatever we're working on... I'd like to offer my help if we can figure something out to do for that... although I am myself having issues racking my brain to find a solution for this.

I, too, would love a place to discuss out-of-period sewing projects - but if that's beyond the forums capacity at this time, I guess we have to be content with what we have. :)

As a reminder to folks, we DO have a place to discuss general crafty-type stuff, here:

http://www.renaissancefestival.com/forums/index.php?board=17.0

I understand it might be straining the system - but couldn't there be a pinned thread for "non-period" projects? So everything was posted there? Or transform the craft thread into an "everything else that can be sewn" kind of thing? I understand if you want to save the banswidth for what the forum is dedicated to, I really do. But it seems like many makers of historical costumes makes other stuff as well, and that they want to discuss it. It's just so nice to hang out in one place instead of visiting multiple forums.  :)

(said the girl who's visiting at least five different forums daily....  ::) ;D )

Taking stand folks...

This is Renaissance Festival dot com.

Operafan does make a good point.  One home to discuss off period would be handy.  I also understand FaireMare's point.

While Tudor/Elizabethan is my strong area for recreating period clothing, I also dabble in other periods be that 18th Century, Regency, Victorian/Edwardian, Fantasy, and beyond, I do not have the time to be a member of various message board communities pretaining to those periods.

to play off of what lady olmstedd just said, if we did take the time to go offsite for such things, it would take away the energy and time we have to spend here... :( I love everyone so much!

Well, given I've seen everything from caveman to Klingon at a faire, perhaps some clarification might be in order as to what "period" is defined as, hmmm?

Quote from: HenrySidneyKG on May 29, 2008, 01:58:37 PM
Well, given I've seen everything from caveman to Klingon at a faire, perhaps some clarification might be in order, hmmm?

Valid point!  Especially since the 'Pirate Coats' and tricorn hats that are so terribly popular nowadays are most decidedly NOT from the Renaissance - they were historically popular from about 1680 - the mid/late 1700's.

Allowing the crafters to discuss non-Renaissance related sewing projects is only going to build community by encouraging us to be more active on the boards and allow us to share resources, tips, and tricks that *are* applicable for Renaissance related sewing projects, but that we can't share in the regular sewing threads because we chose to use that technique on, say, a 17th, 18th or 19th century project.

I think it would be a valuable asset to the community, and by placing it in the 'Backstage' area, it wouldn't draw any attention away from the Renaissance-related sewing threads.  So many of us make our 'home' here at R/F, and I know we'd all love the opportunity to show off our other works. :)

I'm in agreement--this IS Renaissance Festival.com's Sewing area.  To me, that means so much more than just "historically accurate 16th Century clothing only--"  as we've stated so much in the past, and tried so hard to make everyone feel welcome, regardless of whether they're sewing H/A period clothing or not.

We happily discuss lots of medieval garments here, not to mention fairy costumes and pirate outfits... how is the 13th Century any closer to the Renaissance than the 18th?  Why can we talk about one non-Renaissance period, but not another?  And how is anyone supposed to know which is OK?  If we say we can ONLY talk about Renaissance costuming, then to me that sounds like we should ONLY be talking about H/A Renaissance period costuming... and that would destroy the attitude of welcome we've worked so hard to establish here.

If we were being *overwhelmed* by non-period (or, more to the point, non-Fair, discussions) that would be one thing.  But it realy only comes up rarely.

And besides: you guys are my sewing community.  You're the ones I want to share my triumphs with, ask my questions of.  I may not *have* other people to ask how to put a zipper in.  I have no plans for zippers, mind you--but if I have a question, I would really like to feel as though I can ask it here.

Mare does a fabulous job moderating this forum... but we're really a well-behaved bunch.  I feel like a responsible teenager asking for an extension of my curfew.  If we promise not to abuse the privilege, could we have a little more leeway?

Quote from: gem on May 29, 2008, 03:58:32 PM
We happily discuss lots of medieval garments here, not to mention fairy costumes and pirate outfits... how is the 13th Century any closer to the Renaissance than the 18th?  Why can we talk about one non-Renaissance period, but not another?  And how is anyone supposed to know which is OK?  If we say we can ONLY talk about Renaissance costuming, then to me that sounds like we should ONLY be talking about H/A Renaissance period costuming... and that would destroy the attitude of welcome we've worked so hard to establish here.

This is exactly what I have been thinking about the last few days/nights. Where is the line going to be drawn? It did sound to me like we were supposed to only post/post photos of historically accurate Renaissance time frame garb. That would mean I wouldn't have anything, because I have never tried to be THAT accurate, as our faire does not require it. I think it is interesting, as background information and I might attempt it one day, but really that is not my focus right now. My focus is making garb for my family, including pirates and fairies, for MNRF.

Quote from: HenrySidneyKG on May 29, 2008, 01:58:37 PM
Well, given I've seen everything from caveman to Klingon at a faire, perhaps some clarification might be in order as to what "period" is defined as, hmmm?

All things Ren Faire Related.   We have discussed this topic before.  Ren Related:  Renaissance All 300 years, a smidge Medievil, a smidge fantasy..... cross over pirate from wrong era... I have issue with that, but it is acceptable at RenFaire so there for its acceptable here.

Cheer Skirts?  Flapper Dress? Titanic Dress? Starfleet issue shirt?  we may see them at faire, but not worn by someone serious about "REN". 

There are so many excellent groups and forums for all sorts of non-renfair related sewing that access to advice for such items is readily available.  I'm not sure we need to include those areas here, but would it be allowable to ask where to find such advice, and for those of us who know to be able to point those who would like to know in the right direction?  There are a goodly number of us sewing folks who dabble in many periods outside the already generous boundaries of this forum, and who will provide a familiar face in those places for folk needing specific advice.

I think the answer may be... the difference between "Period" and "historically accurate"..
Yes, pirates are technically not quite either, but there are a lot of them at faire,like me. :)

As for the non-ren sewing projects,we have a "mundane" section, would that be the appropriate place for this?

Quote from: FaireMare on May 26, 2008, 12:42:00 AM
....but

Lets try to not have to use this sentence.  I have seen it an awful lot lately.  If its not period it doesn't belong.  there are just TOO many things happening here to have non period items or comments.

Current comments can stay up (reluctantly) but new ones will be burned as plague.

Thank you for your help!

Wait, I know this is not an area that I post but I do read here from time to time. Fairemare you are a moderator not a director. You & DB can burn me for that comment if you wish but thats way out of line to tell people they can not make posts like that, this is a public forum, yes its ren based but non-topic things get posted all the time. If you don't think they should be in this area then bump them to mundanes "burning them like the plague" is uncalled for and I personally think you should not be a moderator if you act in this manor.

Quote from: FaireMare on May 29, 2008, 11:07:02 PM

Quote from: HenrySidneyKG on May 29, 2008, 01:58:37 PM
Well, given I've seen everything from caveman to Klingon at a faire, perhaps some clarification might be in order as to what "period" is defined as, hmmm?

All things Ren Faire Related.   We have discussed this topic before.  Ren Related:  Renaissance All 300 years, a smidge Medievil, a smidge fantasy..... cross over pirate from wrong era... I have issue with that, but it is acceptable at RenFaire so there for its acceptable here.

Cheer Skirts?  Flapper Dress? Titanic Dress? Starfleet issue shirt?  we may see them at faire, but not worn by someone serious about "REN". 

First I jsut say to say,I have tried to keep this post not snarky and I do apologize if it comes across that way.

I am not a very good sewer, I have just started to learn about things. I am not the type of person to use what seems like such restrictions. I know that some of my garb (is garb a "period"word?)  MIGHT not be considered "period" by others but does that make it wrong? I see things like this and it makes me not want to come in here for fear of being burned or plagued or banned or snarked upon for asking a question.

This is a forum we are all here learn from other people and have some fun, not to get burned,snarked,banned,plagued,ect.ect.about what is the correct/period way of things. And I understand that YES there is garb and clothing that is "period". I don't dress to "period" sometimes, does that make me not serious about "Ren"? Just because someone is serious about one thing and not another,doesn't mean they are less of a person.  Some one who works in a higher up corp. may wear a business suit to work but on their days of or out on the town they may change into a biker with tattoos. Does this mean they are not serious about what they do?

I guess I don't understand how this can be regulated SO much that it just doesn't seem fun to even come in to ANY sewing thread or anything. Can someone please give listings or a syllibus to us or me, so that I know what EXACTLY is considered period?

Looking at it from this side of the fence. Firstly, lets all take a breath and step back for a second. I can see where Rage and ladiedragon are coming from. I'm hoping that what FaireMaire was meaning may have been taken wrong. Having said something in the old boards that upset both my self and someone I love dearly and having hurt a good friendship.  I'm reading it the same way Rage and ladiedragon are, meaning if your not going to do a true ren period outfit, then it doesn't belong. If your putting something on here that's not period it will be removed.

I would have to say, that attitude would not be as totally open as this community really is.  You would never tell a person going into fest that they can't come in if they aren't period.  No more so, do I feel it would be beneficial to this online community to do the same.  Please correct me if I'm wrong here FaireMaire, but I feel you may be being a little heavy handed in your view.

Quote from: FaireMare on May 29, 2008, 02:42:35 AM
Taking stand folks...

This is Renaissance Festival dot com.

FaireMare I really hate to jump into the fray on this one but, yes we are a ren community site and yet we still have an entire area devoted to Mundane Topics which have absolutely nothing to do with the ren community other than we are all on here.  Maybe a sticky thread or something could be set up in there to discuss sewing projects other than those ren related.  Taking the stand that this board is ren only unfortunately doesn't hold a lot of water when we have a Mundane Topics section of the board.  Just my 2 pence.

I don't think that FM or any of the moderation staff would EVER say that all garb or sewing related posts have to be purely historically accurate.  As a matter of fact, the moderation staff has worked VERY hard to ensure that this is an open and welcoming place to discuss historically accurate, 'just-for-fun', and fantasy costuming. 

From what I understand, the issue has come up where folks have posted about their later-period costume projects - 18th and 19th century stuff, primarily.  IIRC, most of these have been either in the form of comments as a suggestion to someone asking a question (offering up a solution that worked on their 18th c. costume) or making a post in the 'finished projects' thread of a project that was a later period than is TYPICALLY seen at Renaissance faires.

What some of us are asking for is a section where it WOULD be appropriate to post these out-of-period projects - perhaps an area in the 'Backstage', where off-topic posts are acceptable and welcomed.  Many of us like to dabble in other costume periods, and we'd love to have a place to show off to our R/F friends.  We have such a wonderful community here, and I love seeing what all of our costumers create - whether it be 14th c., 16th c. or 19thc.! :)

Personally, I don't think that this would detract from the faire costuming area - I think it would only add to the depth of knowledge that we have here.  There are sewing techniques that people use in later-period costuming that are directly applicable to faire costuming that we can't share because we happened to use them on a later-period costume, and that's a darn shame - IMHO, of course.

Edit: from the forum rules:

We welcome all level of Festival garbers from fantasy to Down right accurate.  From Novice to verteran performer....  We are all encompasing.

So I think our fairy costumes, pirate coats and underbust bodices are safe. ;)

ladiedragon and rage, piling on FaireMare does nothing for your case.

I don't believe anyone is meaning to pile anything on FaireMare John, and if my comments did imply that, I heartily apologize to her.  I would never mean to do that. I think what people are  doing is using their form of open discussion to come to an agreement and understanding. Please though forgive if anything was taken in the negative.

Quote from: Master James on May 30, 2008, 12:15:39 PM

Quote from: FaireMare on May 29, 2008, 02:42:35 AM
Taking stand folks...

This is Renaissance Festival dot com.

FaireMare I really hate to jump into the fray on this one but, yes we are a ren community site and yet we still have an entire area devoted to Mundane Topics which have absolutely nothing to do with the ren community other than we are all on here.  Maybe a sticky thread or something could be set up in there to discuss sewing projects other than those ren related.  Taking the stand that this board is ren only unfortunately doesn't hold a lot of water when we have a Mundane Topics section of the board.  Just my 2 pence.

I was going to be nicer and suggest this same thing. I have already been talking with DB. My issue is that you need to loosen up and listen to the people in your forum.

how are pirates not period i thought they always had pirates they still have pirates

Quote from: Lady Christina de Pond on May 30, 2008, 01:23:07 PM
how are pirates not period i thought they always had pirates they still have pirates

Pirates - renegade sailors who illegally board ships and do bad things - are period to the Renaissance.  There have been pirates since the dawn of sailing ships.  There are historic accounts of piracy dating back to the Greeks and the Romans, and piracy continues through the modern day (http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2006/07/060706-modern-pirates.html). 

However, the trend of "pirate coats" and tricorn hats, made popular by the Pirates of the Caribbean franchise, is not technically part of the Renaissance period.  These garments were worn primarily from 680-1720's or so. (http://www.reconstructinghistory.com/patterns.php?c=22&d=36&w=24&r=Y)  This period was known as the Golden Age of Piracy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_Age_of_Piracy)

Pirates of any era simply wore the clothes that everyone else wore - with modifications that made life on a working ship easier.  Reconstructing History's English Sea Dogs pattern (http://www.reconstructinghistory.com/rh210-elizabethan-sea-dogs.php?s=&c=22&d=30&q=1&p=285&w=21) is an excellent representation of what a sailor would have worn during the Elizabethan era. 

Here are a few sites on sailors in the Renaissance:

http://ilaria.veltri.tripod.com/sailorboys.html
http://home.comcast.net/~calderon/clothing.htm

Edit:  I made a new topic of discussion about period pirates here! (http://www.renaissancefestival.com/forums/index.php?topic=1139.0)

This is an entertaining thread in and of itself.... 

Quote from: John on May 30, 2008, 12:24:28 PM
ladiedragon and rage, piling on FaireMare does nothing for your case.

John,

I sent you a PM about this. LD's post did not have to do with mine, hers was not the same as mine and she is not trying to back me up.

Quote from: FaireMare on May 26, 2008, 12:42:00 AM
....but

Lets try to not have to use this sentence.  I have seen it an awful lot lately.  If its not period it doesnt belong.   There are just TOO many things happening here to have non period items or comments.

Current comments can stay up (reluctantly) but new ones will be burned as plague.

Thank you for your help!

um...would it be possible to change "period" to "ren-related" ?

For example:  "If it is not ren-related  it doesn't belong."

To me, and I could be wrong, "period" and "historically accurate" are the same thing and there are a lot of us that don't give a hoot about being historically accurate, but if "period" means something else then please let me know.

I was just thinking that "ren-related" might be more specific or descriptive than "period", but again I could be wrong.

Forgive me, but I'm just trying to understand the terminology and what is acceptable and what isn't.  ;)

Everyone, please take 3 minutes after posting to calm down and re-read your posts before posting them, most of the things we say in anger or annoyance or when we're otherwise upset are often not what we really want to say, or should say.

(This is not to say that I have not had my personal greivances with things on the forums at times and acted against my better instincts, but I think since this is kind of important to people we should try to think carefully about what we are saying)

Quote from: gypsylakat on May 30, 2008, 02:48:57 PM
Everyone, please take 3 minutes after posting to calm down and re-read your posts before posting them, most of the things we say in anger or annoyance or when we're otherwise upset are often not what we really want to say, or should say.

(This is not to say that I have not had my personal greivances with things on the forums at times and acted against my better instincts, but I think since this is kind of important to people we should try to think carefully about what we are saying)

I was going to ask that everyone just stop posting here for now (yes I know I am the outspoken one). Alot of points have been made. FM has not had a chance to respond and needs to be given that chance.

Right now this is all in John & DB's hands. If they feel that what FM posted is ok then I will leave it alone. If they think it wasn't then they will talk with FM. They need time to decide this.

FM if you would rather respond in private please PM me. I am more then willing to talk with you.

I think Lady Ann has a great idea!
It may reduce the amount of misunderstandings/misinterpretations about what to post pics of.


Now can go forward peracefully? :)

Quote from: renren on May 30, 2008, 04:01:46 PM
Now can go forward peracefully? :)

Yeah, either that or we start taking using the Pirates rule. Where "The floggings will continue, until morale improves." SO THERE!!!!!!

Quote from: renren on May 30, 2008, 04:01:46 PM
I think Lady Ann has a great idea!

Actually it was your post that gave me the idea renren!  ;)

Quote from: Lady Ann of Draycott on May 30, 2008, 04:17:39 PM

Quote from: renren on May 30, 2008, 04:01:46 PM
I think Lady Ann has a great idea!

Actually it was your post that gave me the idea renren!  ;)

We make a good team! ;D

What I see at this point is words being taken totally out of context.  And there are those that seem to really want to give their own meanings to my words... Regularly.   I am the first to admit that I am no where near perfect.  If I were, I would not be dealing with this. I would be assended.

IF You know me at all you know that I stand for all things Ren Faire related.  To say otherwise is wrong.   The use of the word "Period", obviously not my best choice of words, But it DID mean "ALL THINGS REN RELATED".  Nothing more or less.

So here is the new deall....

Post what ever whenever you want.
You all win...... Hope you feel wonderful.

Here's the deal people.  Ideas were misconstrued, and many things were taken out of context and then ran with.  Guidelines for not only the garbing/sewing but the site as a whole were set in place some time ago, on the old forum, and people seem to have forgotten what they were.  And even with those guidelines in place, we've tried to be flexible.  When the garbing section wasn't good enough, we split it into garbing and sewing to differentiate and help keep things better organized.  Now some think a third area is needed.  Where will it stop?  Any further expansion in this way, and we'll lose our identity.  I didn't spends countless nights of frustration without sleep to rebuild our home just so that it could get torn down again because something was taken out of context.  This is supposed to be our escape from real world drama.  This is my happy place; and hopefully it is other's as well.  I'm getting very little of that recently, but I'm striving to rebuild in the hopes that this site will be even better over time.  I have faith.  Do you?

I want everyone to step back and look at the bigger picture.  Do you enjoy your time here?  Then why all the drama over something so trivial?  We built this site for faire related discussions.  We've done some growing since then.  Some time ago I set up a new "mundane" area to help broaden the forums so that people could share additional interests beyond faire itself.  Now, I don't want to start adding more and more to the site to the point that faire is no longer the focus or R/F.com.  That's the primary function of this site; faire.  Yes, we all have many interests that fall outside of faire.  Everything has it's place, and some things just don't belong here.  That's not to say that we only want faire related topics, but that's our focus.  If anyone really feels the need to bring up other subjects, which is fine, that's what "mundane topics" is for.  This site still has a long way to go before it gets back up to speed where the old site was, so everyone is just going to have to be patient while we work through it.  There are still many adjustments to be made, but that doesn't mean we've forgotten our purpose. 

A large percentage of this site's traffic is focused on the garbing/sewing area because it IS such a huge part of faire.  We need to maintain a level of commitment and focus to this area because of that; both from our members and our moderators.  There's no reason to question the moderators on how they do their job, when in the end they are doing a huge service FOR you, not against you.  Let them do their jobs; don't make it harder for them.  Our members have an endless knowledge base and provide a HUGE resource for those needing more info for things related to faire.  We don't want to confuse/overwhelm new people seeking this knowledge.  If we lose focus, we lose interest.   No interest means no new members to share ideas with.  And that would truly be a tragedy.  Let's try to support each other and make this site better than before.

Keeping in the spirit of ren;

Deadbishop

 

Let's give Maire, DB, John, and all the other mods a big thank you, for putting up with us!

Thanks guys and gals, for doing what you do, I know I couldn't!

Things that would be worn to fit in at a faire = garb
Things not worn at the faire = other

Loose definition yes, I'm probably biased against a strictly-Renaissance-only rule because I'm [1] playtron and not cast and [2] portraying a fantasy character.  However, I won't slash my wrists in angst if I have to post about quasi-period fantasy garb in an "other" section because I understand the need of people who are cast or otherwise work at the faire and NEED to be period/HA.