I want to pop this out here and see what you all think because I was told I was over reacting.
On Saturday morning about 6:45 am I was walking to the bathroom and a small very young little girl enters the bathroom before me. I see no one else in the bathroom she enters a stall I enter a stall I come out and the little one is trying to wash her hands, she can't reach. I lifted her up and helped her and talked to her...
" I'm a big girl and I can do this myself, I'm 5." so I ask where is your mommy? "She's at the Texas Renaissance Festival"..ummm we are at the Renaissance festival, okay so..where did you sleep lastnight....BTW still no adults or anyone. "in the Van" ..okay so where is the van? "over there" she points in a a vague direction. I take her hand and say let me walk you home okay? "okay she says and leads me out the door and way down the lane,there is a person standing in a door way looking around and the little one says "there's my sissy" So I let go of her hand and let her go. The kid was coughing like she was dying!
So I went a little bonkers and went off ranting to my employer and was told it's no big deal.
I was a victim of sexual abuse as a kid. ALOT of sexual assaults happen in bathrooms! SHE IS 5 years old!! 5!!! not old enough to be wandering the faire grounds ALONE!!
So rant over...did I over react? Would you feel comfortable allowing your 5 years old to wander alone?? Is the "Faire" safe enough to allow this???
It really stuck with me and caused me distress and worry....I am still worrying about a little coughing 5 year old girl.
Knowing what kind of people exist in this world, and having heard comments being made by very... questionable people about young girls, I most definitely would not let a five year old wander anywhere by herself. Especially not a place with that many people where a child could so easily be lost. You never know what can happen, and it's not a safe risk to take.
No, it is never safe to allow them to wander alone like that. However, and at Faire particularly, there are people like you that would watch over the little ones. Heaven help any creep trying to snatch one away and the child screams out bloody murder, for the wrath that would be visited upon them would be terrible indeed. But, when you are talking about that many people in one place, at one time, of all different types... no. Allowing children, especially the very young ones, to wander around alone is not a good idea.
Sissy or not, I probably would have found security to return her to her "parents". We had a wandering child at my former complex & a bunch of us sat with her outside until the police came. The officer said the one thing you should never do with a lost child is to bring them into your dwelling or enclosed space; i.e., automobile, etc.
Ok, I think that pre-cannon faire is totally different. 5 is still too young for my tastes, but I understand how a parent would be ok with letting their kiddo run to the potty alone that early. I'm usually out in the grounds doing the same at that hour, so I know that it's usually pretty quiet and peacefull. My son is 6 now and I think I'd be ok with letting him run across the lane to go potty before cannon. After cannon? That boy is attached to me like freaking VELCRO!
A child that age should be supervised.....end of story.
Personally, I think five is way too young, although, as you say, it's pre canon and most likely the village is safe enough for little ones. I agree bad things can happen when you least expect and I think it's sweet of you to care so much. Perhaps you might stop in and say hello to her family one day in their shop. Not to bring up your worries, but to reassure yourself that she is cared for.
The Dirt Fairy just turned 5 last month...and there is ABSOLUTELY NO WAY I would let her wander around by herself! >:( Being a good parent is not always fun...and that includes getting your butt up early in the morning when you may be hung over and walking your child to the potty! If you don't want to be responsible for your child at faire...don't bring them to faire!
*steps off soapbox*
Outside of the possible of abuse bathrooms are naturial dangerious places. We just had a guy slip on some water and fall and break his arm in two places in the rest room at work. The little one could have tried climing the sink to wash her hands and fallen or slipped on some water and fell and got hurt. or just got turned around and got lost. I think 5 is to young to wonder out of ear range.
Quote from: RSLeask on November 09, 2009, 10:59:11 AM
No, it is never safe to allow them to wander alone like that. However, and at Faire particularly, there are people like you that would watch over the little ones. Heaven help any creep trying to snatch one away and the child screams out bloody murder, for the wrath that would be visited upon them would be terrible indeed. But, when you are talking about that many people in one place, at one time, of all different types... no. Allowing children, especially the very young ones, to wander around alone is not a good idea.
This is a bit off the topic, but it reminds me that there are some parents who take the "people like you that would watch over the little ones" for granted. I'm sure you've seen more than a few examples at the White Hart where parents seem to treat the tavern as a supervised play pen, leaving patrons to keep them from throwing rocks on stage or performers to ask whose child this is and can somebody claim them before they start singing about synonyms for intercourse and venereal disease. I'm actually *thrilled* when one of these unsupervised individuals is at least five years old; that means they're old enough to reason with (at least compared to unsupervised three year olds).
Quote from: will paisley on November 09, 2009, 02:29:02 PM
Quote from: RSLeask on November 09, 2009, 10:59:11 AM
No, it is never safe to allow them to wander alone like that. However, and at Faire particularly, there are people like you that would watch over the little ones. Heaven help any creep trying to snatch one away and the child screams out bloody murder, for the wrath that would be visited upon them would be terrible indeed. But, when you are talking about that many people in one place, at one time, of all different types... no. Allowing children, especially the very young ones, to wander around alone is not a good idea.
This is a bit off the topic, but it reminds me that there are some parents who take the "people like you that would watch over the little ones" for granted. I'm sure you've seen more than a few examples at the White Hart where parents seem to treat the tavern as a supervised play pen, leaving patrons to keep them from throwing rocks on stage or performers to ask whose child this is and can somebody claim them before they start singing about synonyms for intercourse and venereal disease. I'm actually *thrilled* when one of these unsupervised individuals is at least five years old; that means they're old enough to reason with (at least compared to unsupervised three year olds).
Personally, I think that age is too young. But, I'm going to have to agree with RS here. At least with participants, in participants camp, there's a good chance that some random person you point at is going to be someone of decent morals and at least caring of a human life. Is that an excuse to let your kids run wild...absolutely not, because unfortunately, every crop has a few bad seeds in it, so you never know.
Now if this was out in patron's camp, I'd slap the silly out of those parents
Our baby hasn't even ejected yet, and Tiff is already hyper-overprotective: already picked out her first training rifle (pink camo .22), Aikido classes by age 4-5, Krav Maga by age 10, GPS transponder built into a locket with a long-life NiCad battery, and no end of overprotective kinsmen and women. This is just what my wife has planned, we need not get into my own plans for her. I pity any boy she dates.
That being said, I will be the first to admit that we take protecting our young to veritably psychotic levels (though, to be fair, we do so by teaching them to protect themselves), so our standards can't really be applied to normal people. In this case, I think Sir Richard has the trump-card of points: yes, pre-cannon faire may be quite safe from predators (though not 100% safe, there will always be some freak), but accidents can happen, and a 5 year old is more prone to them, and less able to get out of them.
That is absolutely too young and you did not overreact!!! My boy is six and isn't allowed out of mine or my hubby's sight with the exception of inside our house or someone's home we trust explicitly. If he has to go to the bathroom, he goes with daddy or me. I know we can be overprotective but he's our life and we do our damdest to be sure he is safe. I have had to get up at 4 in the morning while camping to take him to the privy...it's not fun but it's my responsibility as a parent.
Shandi, you did not over react.
I agree with the previous posts. It is a parents' responsibility to parent. If they don't see it as a privelage, then they should hire a babysitter or stay home from faire.
Overreact? Oh hell no! Although I wasn't a victim (thank God), it's my understanding that a great number of abusers are people the victims know. Considering your own awful experiences, it's natural that you'd be especially aware of the risks and protective of little ones. Hugs to you; I pray that you've found healing...
Quote from: Chris B on November 09, 2009, 12:14:05 PM
A child that age should be supervised.....end of story.
I couldn't agree more!!
Overprotective, overreacting, paranoid?
Nope, our children are our future. My youngest Daughter is now 29 with one grand-son at about 2 years old and one grand-daughter in the oven about 1 month away from being done.
When Daughter is with me at Faire, I am about the most paranoid individual around, even though her future husband [okay Robin, when the heck is the wedding] is along side. Can't imagine when grand-kids come to spend the day at Faire in the future.
Guess I'll have to get back to wearing a sharp pointy sword when the grand-kids are with me. Annoy my kin and you get a free limb removal. That peace-tie can come undone real fast.
Quote from: mpullen on November 09, 2009, 06:31:25 PM
Annoy my kin and you get a free limb removal. That peace-tie can come undone real fast.
Peace-tie won't slow an angry daddy for a second!
Quote from: will paisley on November 09, 2009, 02:29:02 PM
Quote from: RSLeask on November 09, 2009, 10:59:11 AM
No, it is never safe to allow them to wander alone like that. However, and at Faire particularly, there are people like you that would watch over the little ones. Heaven help any creep trying to snatch one away and the child screams out bloody murder, for the wrath that would be visited upon them would be terrible indeed. But, when you are talking about that many people in one place, at one time, of all different types... no. Allowing children, especially the very young ones, to wander around alone is not a good idea.
This is a bit off the topic, but it reminds me that there are some parents who take the "people like you that would watch over the little ones" for granted. I'm sure you've seen more than a few examples at the White Hart where parents seem to treat the tavern as a supervised play pen, leaving patrons to keep them from throwing rocks on stage or performers to ask whose child this is and can somebody claim them before they start singing about synonyms for intercourse and venereal disease. I'm actually *thrilled* when one of these unsupervised individuals is at least five years old; that means they're old enough to reason with (at least compared to unsupervised three year olds).
That really isn't off-topic at all, in my opinion, Will. Because in fact, it goes hand in hand. Regardless of where it is, leaving the little gremlins to their own devices is not a good thing. For exactly that reason. They do get into mischief, and when they do scurry away, who's paying attention at that point? We might try to keep track, and I would be one of the first stomping the face of some sick freak trying to mess with someone's kid, but do I pay close attention to their whereabouts? No. They aren't mine. I'm sure most everyone's of that mind. But there's the other less obvious stuff, too, such as the particulars of shows. Hence the ratings, of course, but like kids pay attention to that.
thank you all for your support~!!
The incident really shook me.... when you have been abused you worry for the little ones. No one ever watched out for me no one took notice to the monsters that assulted me. I so worry for the little ones and I do overeact and I do tend to see the negative in people. It hurt me to see this frail little coughing thing all alone. It hurt me more when I was told not to worry about it from a friend.
Thank you!! you made me feel better about myself! :)
You should never feel hurt about, or think you did the wrong thing in watching out for others. Especially those unable to watch out for themselves. I wish the world had more people like you in it, Shandi. We'd all be that much better for it.
Instead of Aikido I'd recommend Kuk Sool Won but only because I've studied it for 20 years and have been teaching it for 10. Any martial arts is good for the little ones not so much for selfdense except for bullies close to their own age but it really helps the eye hand, balance and teachs how to fall without getting hurt.
My daughter is now just 2, and while I may trust her to go out a bit from me and wander where I can see her, except in a unfamiliar place or that is teemings to and fro with comings and goings, I would not allow her at that agewander into a generally open-ended bathroom such as that. I trust faire, immensely..let me restate that, I trust rennies immensely, and even those only that I know well. I am a lackidaisacal kind of guy, but mess with my child and...as Edward Norton said in Fight Club:" Skinny (little) guys will fight until they are hamburger." You didn't over-react. Sometimes people who accept the responsibility of attending a young one NEED to have their ear chewed off. Heck, I ask the same for me if I am doing something as asinine as that. Though, I will admit, sometimes they get it wrong. My kid falls into things. SHE'S 2! I had a lady at the store come up to me and tell me "Don't you hit her anymore," finger in my face. Kiddo has a long bruise across her forehead from where she hit the table. But, you were in the right. As for peace-ties being quick to remove. I prefer bludgeoning weapons myself to blades, so am not against beating someone with a short sword in a scabbard. That way, assault isn't with a deadly weapon, but I promise you, they give you morphine for a severed arm...they don't for 4 cracked ribs and a punctured lung. Okay, done being papa bearcub (I am 5'2 after all.) I applaud you for having the courage to stand up for that girl.
Quote from: Breandan on November 09, 2009, 05:33:43 PM
Our baby hasn't even ejected yet, and Tiff is already hyper-overprotective: already picked out her first training rifle (pink camo .22), Aikido classes by age 4-5, Krav Maga by age 10, GPS transponder built into a locket with a long-life NiCad battery, and no end of overprotective kinsmen and women. This is just what my wife has planned, we need not get into my own plans for her. I pity any boy she dates.
That being said, I will be the first to admit that we take protecting our young to veritably psychotic levels (though, to be fair, we do so by teaching them to protect themselves), so our standards can't really be applied to normal people. In this case, I think Sir Richard has the trump-card of points: yes, pre-cannon faire may be quite safe from predators (though not 100% safe, there will always be some freak), but accidents can happen, and a 5 year old is more prone to them, and less able to get out of them.
It's way better to be over-protective than sorry. I want to have kids one day, and I plan on being incredibly over-protective. None of this "Oh~! Five is old enough to walk around the mall alone!! She's a big girl!" crap. Being a parent is a huge responsibility. I don't think enough people realise that once you have that kid, a lot of the fun & games are over. You're going to have to get up at four in the morning sometimes when you
don't feel like it to take said kid to the bathroom. You're not going to be able to party as much. Etc. >.< </rant> I tend to dislike irresponsible parents... can you tell? ^^;
The majority of society walks around with blinders. After being law enforcement myself, I have seen first hand that crime is much more prevalent than most people care to admit. You shouldn't walk around being paranoid your whole life but taking precaution is the wise thing to do. I believe in the addage, an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. It only takes one incident to change someone's life forever. Most people are good, but it only takes one bad one crossing your path at the wrong time, and it would be too late.
You rarely see neighbors of sex offenders, drug dealers, or serial killers saying that something was wrong with that person. They always say what a nice quiet person he/she was until they got caught. It is the parent's responsibility to provide for the security of their child and you cannot delegate or pass that responsibility. I understand that all of us have had times where a child can give us the slip, but giving a 5 year old free reign is not a good idea for any reason. I may be somewhat skeptical of people until they earn my trust, but I have seen too much to ignore human nature. I hope for the best in people, but always prepare for the worst.
Quote from: dobbydog on November 10, 2009, 07:55:54 AM
You're going to have to get up at four in the morning sometimes when you don't feel like it to take said kid to the bathroom.
Or, for poor Holly, every twenty minutes throughout the run of faire ;D
We see her zipping by past the forge with her adorable daughter headed for the privy several times a day while trying to run a shop. THAT'S dedication :)
Ok...so my son is only 1 yr old...but I cannot see letting him out of my sight for one second...you don't know who is lurking where these days. I wear sharp pointy things at faire and I agree with how fast a peace tie can come undone...if anyone ever attempted to lay a finger on my boy...they would very quickly be without said finger (or any other body part for that matter). So, my point is....NEVER let the wee ones wander without supervision, regardless of the situation and if you are unable to attend to supervising them...leave them home with someone who can...
Sorry...I am done ranting now...thank you... ;)
I don't have kids. Yet. I want them, I love them.
And there is no way that I would ever for a second allow some creep to any chance to harm my baby. I don't care how inconvenient it might be to me...that precious angel/hellion is mine to protect! I wouldn't even let my sister run off at my home faire, and trust me it is no where near as big as TRF! Nope, not happening. Creeps are everywhere....I feel the same way when I see five year olds running around at work (Wal-Mart) I want to smack the parents. We have a least one code Adam a day (missing child)
Don't they know how many perverts there are out there?
*gets off soapbox*
I am just glad that I am part of an overprotective clan and fairemly. When I do have kids, you all have express permission to use the free limb removal if for some reason I do not get there first.
Remove limb first, ask question later. They can always be reattached! :)
Nope...not overreacting. If I had sent my 5 year old to the privy, not matter what time of day, I'd be very close. Early morning, low traffic area, I can understand not being within 2 feet of her, but to not be in sight...no way. You did a good deed Shandi and although I (obviously) don't know the parents, and haven't met you yet, thanks for keeping an eye out on the young'ns - I'm proud to "know" you!
If anyone read Seamus' post about being slipped something in his mug, with friends around in broad daylight at faire, this discussion will come to a screeching halt. If that can happen to an adult, I shudder to think what can happen to an innocent young child.
I lost my son once in Sears (coincidently, the same Sears that Adam Walsh was taken from and later found murdered). Tony was about 18 months, and he actually was near me, he just slipped under the round rack that the clothes were on and I couldn't see him. I was a maniac for the 2 or 3 minutes I couldn't find him. When he came out, I sat on the floor, hugged him, and cried. That was the first and last time that I didn't keep my eye on both my sons.
The world is different now, than even 27 years ago, and I think you were absolutely right to be concerned for that child's welfare.
We had one our younglings go MIA on us during AHE (Sunday morning)... as the word spread, you had 10 men fall into a military search pattern and canvas camp in less than 30 seconds. The helpful little booger was one row of tents over, helping another McLot member break camp. You can't take any chances, these days, with creeps & freaks coming out of the woodwork.
The Order of Culloden Moor has many purposes but the safety of women & children are paramount to us.
My daughter is 8, and our first visit to TRF was during All Hallows Weekend, with all the craziness that entails. Inside the gates she was occasionally allowed to get up to 30 feet away to go look at one particular center lane kiosk (Ananda, with all the crystals), as long as she stayed on the sides that I could see easily, and to play with the Crystal Styks in the open grassy area, also where I could see her. Restroom visits were always supervised, walking was always side-by-side, and she was never allowed to run ahead or lag behind more than 10-15 feet. Closing gate was hand-in-hand, because of the throngs of people and the lack of lighting. In patrons camping we always went to the privy together, and waited for each other before walking back into camp (which was right behind them). Even at 8, she's never allowed out of eye sight or ear shot, and she knows to make sure I can see her. I can't imagine that changing even when she's 10, or 12... possibly not even at 14, although the leash might get a tiny bit longer. I can't imagine sending her off somewhere I couldn't even see her... I'd lose my mind with worry! What sort of parent does it take to allow a baby of only 5 years old to wander around by herself?!?
Always react, it's horrific cases when people say, why did no one do anything.
I have to add to the chorus that you did absolutely nothing wrong. My kiddos are older than the little girl in question (9 & 12) & we've just started, within the past year, giving them a bit of freedom at Scarby and Middlefaire. However, Middlefaire is very small & we can almost see them from any point on the grounds. At Scarby, we're friends of the faire so they can go to one of those areas for help, they know the grounds like the back of their hands & we have several friends who are playtrons & on cast who they can go to if they need help.
TRF, IMO, is a horse of a completely different color. Its huge and we only visit it once a year. Therefore, the kids are with us.
Too many parents are too 'lazy' about watching their kids. I'm not saying you need to be on them 24/7 when they're 15YO but at 5 they need to be either in your sight or with a trusted adult or older teen of your choosing.
I too agree that children should be supervised at all times. However, I had an experience this weekend that reminded me how thankful I am for rennie friends. We have 5 kids ages 2,4,6,8,and 10. They are never allowed to go anywhere alone, and if they go somewhere out of arms reach, even where I can still see them, they have to be with one of the oldest ones. My almost 11-year-old likes to get pretzels "by himself" while I am standing nearby. Yesterday, I was watching a friend's children while he went to get something, and my pretzel-purchasing child got out of my sight. I couldn't leave all the kids at the show until the friend got back, but I got really stressed and was very worried. The friend returned quickly, and as I was rushing off to find my son, my phone rang. I have instructed the big two that if we get separated, they are to immediately go to one of the stages where their dad performs, and someone will get one of us. He was on his way to the stage when one of our rennie friends saw him and stopped him. He called me and brought my son over to where we were. The whole thing happened so fast, but everything went just like it should. My son remembered what to do if he felt lost, and our friends were watching out for him. I know that this world is a dangerous place, and unfortunately, faire is no exception. However, good friends make life much safer and more comfortable.