It is my observation that most stage performers don't try to engage with patrons outside the context of their formal performances. Being deliberately broad so as not to offend anyone, I would note that most musicians, magicians, comedians, fire performers, dancers, and acrobats I have seen perform their shows and then either disappear or see the faire without adopting a persona and interacting improvisationally with patrons after the hat pass is complete. Another way of looking at it is that there is little overlap between performers and cast.
I'm wondering...
a) Is my observation accurate?
b) Is this deliberate on the part of faire EDs or just a consequence of non-overlapping skills and interests on the part of the performers?
c) Any good examples of stage acts that don't fit this pattern?
Quote from: Prof. John Bull on November 13, 2009, 01:15:09 PM
It is my observation that most stage performers don't try to engage with patrons outside the context of their formal performances. Being deliberately broad so as not to offend anyone, I would note that most musicians, magicians, comedians, fire performers, dancers, and acrobats I have seen perform their shows and then either disappear or see the faire without adopting a persona and interacting improvisationally with patrons after the hat pass is complete. Another way of looking at it is that there is little overlap between performers and cast.
I'm wondering...
a) Is my observation accurate?
b) Is this deliberate on the part of faire EDs or just a consequence of non-overlapping skills and interests on the part of the performers?
c) Any good examples of stage acts that don't fit this pattern?
Prof., I have to say that your observations are correct in some cases but not all. Some performers feel that maintaining an aloofness sets them apart from the patrons. Usually those performers who feel this way are not the ones that patrons feel a loyalty to or get to know personally. I can only speak for PRF and GLMF where I perform. The nationally known acts are more prone to adapt that attitude and it does make them seem more like "celebrities". However they miss out on one of my favorite parts of faire and that is getting to know patrons as friends and interacting with them to preserve the intrastice. At PRF, we have a stage very close to the pub. All the acts on that stage normally spend what little free time we have in the pub talking and interacting with patrons and each other. I have formed bonds with patrons in the pub that have carried over into the mundane world all year long. Unfortunately, the busy schedule of shows, parade, busking on a schedule and trying to find time to eat cuts into that important time.
As far as improv in the lanes, I love doing that but that is not our function. If the cast is open to it then it will work but the cast usually feels like we are intruding on their space just as much as if they walked onto our stage during a performance. I do have friends on cast that will include me in bits in the lanes but I think I am a rare case.
I think many performers also have the attitude that they are being paid to perform on stage and the cast is being paid to interact with patrons. That distinction is a professional one that changes from faire to faire.
Besides meself and the other acts on the Pirates Pub Stage at PRF, another good example is Pirates Royal at MRF. They have an area that is theirs alone to relax, sell CDs and talk to patrons. They are approachable and enjoy meeting fans. Unfortunately, most of us don't have the luxury of a camp site for that purpose. I wish we did.
I'm sure others will give examples of stage acts that don't fit the pattern you have observed. It will be interesting to see who is considered approachable and what benefits that approachability bring.
I think it's also important to consider what the performer has been contracted to do. If a performer isn't paid or contracted to put in the extra hours of work that working the street entails... well then, they probably aren't going to do it.
Because doing street work is just that- work. Time spent running around in the streets could instead be spent relaxing, rehearsing or -depending on the show- recuperating before the next performance. And as a performer, it doesn't make financial sense to give away your work without compensation. It's like my Grandma always said, though she was talking about something slightly different, "why buy the cow when you can get the milk for free?"
Yes, there are some groups that don't do this. But again, they're contracted to work in the street as well as on stage. The Aerial Angels, Theatre in the Ground, the Knotty Knickers and Crye and Cudgel all spend as much or more time in the street as they do on stage. That's one of their selling points, "We will give you more hours of entertainment."
At RPFS, at least, the public is a part of the overall show. We have extensive workshops on meet and greet, improv, BFA and how to interact with one another as well as the public.
Some of the stage shows do perform primarily on stage, but the Queen and her Court are active in the street--to the extent that we have the occasional "Oh (%#" reaction because we haven't realized that she was in the area and have to play catch up.
My function is primarily that of meet & greet and to interact with children and other mobility challenged folks. I also provide something of a photo op since I'm riding around in probably the biggest anachronism at Faire.
However, interaction is pretty variable from event to event. I sometimes don't choose to be in character when visiting some other events because other visitors think I'm part of the show and, if I'm not familiar with the layout, it's sometimes difficult to tell them such things as the location of the nearest privies. I can also have a bit of fun with folks who might not recognize me out of character, but who I recognize from other events. The latter was easier to do back when I was on foot.
Some of the folks in the stage shows also have a dual function of actually being stage performers and a separate role as street performers or theme characters.
This discussion also brings to mind some AFR discussions several years ago which included some stage performers from some of the Eastern events who really resented the concept of large numbers of virtually unpaid participants. It seemed to me that they found this to be threatening.
I have noticed this quite a bit. I remember back before Ded Bob hit it big, it was normal to find him walking the streets, entertaining. Nowadays, the only time I see him away from the stage, it's without the puppet. The same with a lot of the 'big' name acts. You rarely see the Zucchini brothers when they aren't on stage,or Manolette or Tartanic or alot of the musical groups, more specifically the ones with instruments.
However, I have had the fortune of knowing a lot of stage acts that DO hit the streets. Shanty Man and Bonnie Lass, The Rogue Blades, The Bucaneer Blades in whatever incarnation they might be in, the Washing well Wenches, Tritons Fury, Ric Rock, Bocca Musica, all wander the streets in between sets, interacting with patrons, and, well, making friends. Of course, a lot of these shows also tend to be the ones who, if not encourage hecklers, don't mind them quite as much as certain acts.
I think some of it might be an audience building thing. Smaller named groups need to spread the information of their shows a little more then the big names who are gaurenteed an audience.
But thats just my opinion.
And some folks just enjoy playing in the street as well as on stage. It's also a function of whether they get mobbed in the street. I suspect that reduces their desire to play in the street.
Quote from: Captain Cornelius Howard Duckman on November 14, 2009, 01:11:44 AM
However, I have had the fortune of knowing a lot of stage acts that DO hit the streets. Shanty Man and Bonnie Lass, The Rogue Blades, The Bucaneer Blades in whatever incarnation they might be in, the Washing well Wenches, Tritons Fury, Ric Rock, Bocca Musica, all wander the streets in between sets, interacting with patrons, and, well, making friends. Of course, a lot of these shows also tend to be the ones who, if not encourage hecklers, don't mind them quite as much as certain acts.
I think some of it might be an audience building thing. Smaller named groups need to spread the information of their shows a little more then the big names who are gaurenteed an audience.
But thats just my opinion.
Audience building and networking are different than gigging on the streets though. That's more marketing. Kevin from Boca is going to hit the streets and talk with people and say "Hey, come see our show." rather tahn getting into a bit with Mary Jane the seamstress about finding a husband.
Not all stage acts come from a street/improv background, too. I started on local cast at my home fair and trained at Sterling as a BTM, so I love getting to improv in the streets as a "villager", but this is not everyone's experience, and it can be intimidating to plunge in without knowing a lot of people on the local cast, not knowing what's a scheduled interaction with lines or a repeated daily bit, etc. Doing shows is our first job and priority, so we don't get to spend time sorting out from day to day what's join-able and what needs its own performance space and time without interruption.
Other handicaps - we don't know the whole village cast by sight, and it's hard to figure out who's a patron/playtron in a great outfit and who works here; often the village cast doesn't know us by sight, either. I just joined one of our teams that had been at a renfest for a couple of weeks, and were having a hard time interacting because the local cast thought they were weirdly-dressed playtrons and treated them as such. (It was a bit shocking to have the Queen dismiss us with barely a glance, clearly thinking we were weird patrons, when I tried to give her a flowery compliment).
And often we're not aware of the relative improv skill levels of the local cast - are they going to enjoy playing with someone new or be freaked out that someone they don't know wants them to say yes? I've had a fair number of experiences where I've tried to start a bit and they other actor was having none of it or was intimidated by my being a stage act and that hindered their ability to play.
Thank you all for the insightful replies. Please keep them coming.
Quote from: GirlChris on November 13, 2009, 11:18:25 PM
I think it's also important to consider what the performer has been contracted to do. If a performer isn't paid or contracted to put in the extra hours of work that working the street entails... well then, they probably aren't going to do it.
Because doing street work is just that- work. [...]
GirlChris,
It is my understanding that, real world, most experienced performers negotiate contracts on the basis of their prior year contribution. As such, the performer that makes the extra effort to work the lanes between stage appearances would presumably set themselves up for a more lucrative contract the following year (as well as drawing tips or perhaps publicizing an upcoming stage show). I'm presuming an appropriate and competent level of engagement that speaks to the performer's strengths -- sleight of hand, puppetry, music, fencing, juggling flaming torches -- so as not to duplicate the efforts of the cast.
My experience is that most performers are not mercenaries but rather people who love what they do yet insist on a certain level of compensation to defray the expenses of performing and to rationalize their involvement to their families. Actors who are in it for the money do TV commercials instead.
Quote from: aerial angels on November 14, 2009, 10:56:19 PM
(It was a bit shocking to have the Queen dismiss us with barely a glance, clearly thinking we were weird patrons, when I tried to give her a flowery compliment).
I find it shocking to have a queen dismiss ANYONE with barely a glance.
Aerial-
It's not really a problem if the folks who pay at the gate are considered to be part of the show. The only time we have a problem is when someone in a costume misbehaves and we need to determine whether the culprit was or wasn't a participant. Participants can get their passes lifted. Non-participants can be asked to leave.
The folks who've played our queens have always interacted with the public. There's been a participant workshop for several years on interacting with the queen, but a lot of this concerns do's and don't's and specific queues such as whether something given to her is to be returned or not. The young woman presently playing our queen sometimes causes us problems when we're not expecting her to be in our area, she appears, and we have to play catch up.
About the only time we try to limit the interaction is when we have to hurry to something that's been scheduled. In that case, we'll excuse ourselves and explain that we need to be somewhere.
I do know that some events limit caste to a few theme characters, but there are over 1,000 participants at RPFS on any given day including the theme characters and shows. The whole site is a stage.
Quote from: Prof. John Bull on November 14, 2009, 11:34:57 PM
It is my understanding that, real world, most experienced performers negotiate contracts on the basis of their prior year contribution. As such, the performer that makes the extra effort to work the lanes between stage appearances would presumably set themselves up for a more lucrative contract the following year (as well as drawing tips or perhaps publicizing an upcoming stage show). I'm presuming an appropriate and competent level of engagement that speaks to the performer's strengths -- sleight of hand, puppetry, music, fencing, juggling flaming torches -- so as not to duplicate the efforts of the cast.
Here's the thing with that. Cast has rehearsals a couple of times a week to develop their gigs and interactions with each other. Stage acts are not part of that process of development of the 'show'. It is not to exclude them, it's just their role at the show.
Also, most main stage acts at MIRF have 4 or 5 scheduled shows a day, a pretty big schedule, so there is not much time to gig in the streets inbetween shows if they want to get something to eat. Then there are acts like Tartanic, who put on one hell of a show on their own stage, then show up to preform at Queen's Tea and then later at Pub Sing. They are BUSY! So, it's not really an issue of making themselves more 'marketable' or 'useful' around the faire site. The stage acts fullfill their role at faire and the lane acts fullfill theirs.
Quote from: Prof. John Bull on November 14, 2009, 11:34:57 PM
It is my understanding that, real world, most experienced performers negotiate contracts on the basis of their prior year contribution. As such, the performer that makes the extra effort to work the lanes between stage appearances would presumably set themselves up for a more lucrative contract the following year
Oh, would that it were so. At some faires, regardless of what you do, if you ask for more money the following year you are gone. I have even negotiated extra work to get a raise and the next year my pay went down and I was told "we don't need you to do that this year". It had nothing to do with the quality of what I did. Just budget cuts.
Quote from: Prof. John Bull on November 14, 2009, 11:34:57 PM
It is my understanding that, real world, most experienced performers negotiate contracts on the basis of their prior year contribution. As such, the performer that makes the extra effort to work the lanes between stage appearances would presumably set themselves up for a more lucrative contract the following year (as well as drawing tips or perhaps publicizing an upcoming stage show).
This would be a logical conclusion, however it does not always happen this way. As stated in a couple of previous replies, when the buget for a Faire is cut, the performer is often asked to take LESS the following year, despite any extra work they did. It's not uncommon for Faire Management to expect the same level of participation
in addition to cutting contract amounts, simply because the performer has already done the extra work for no additional compensation the prior year.
It is much like the 'milk and cow' situation in GilChris' post.
Quote from: Prof. John Bull on November 14, 2009, 11:34:57 PM
My experience is that most performers are not mercenaries but rather people who love what they do yet insist on a certain level of compensation to defray the expenses of performing and to rationalize their involvement to their families. Actors who are in it for the money do TV commercials instead.
You missed a large category here - people who do this for a living because they love it, but need to do far more than "defray expenses". While they're not in it to get rich, they definitely need to eat and pay the rent. These people will usually do extra, such as perform at pub sing or join in a bit - if they are invited. Otherwise, the issues aerial brought up come into play. Moreover, much of the extra time and energy apart from performances has to be spent on networking and plugging the act. When performing at faire is one's primary means of support, there's not nearly as much available time to run around and do street as there is for a cast member whose primary reason for being at faire is to do just that.
Quote from: Katie Bookwench on November 15, 2009, 12:49:23 PM
It's not uncommon for Faire Management to expect the same level of participation in addition to cutting contract amounts, simply because the performer has already done the extra work for no additional compensation the prior year.
It's also not uncommon for faire management to cut contract amounts and contract numbers, and then expect performers to do more than they've ever done to pick up the slack. Faire ownership/management, by and large, is not known for its largesse. :P
I've not found anyone who made a lot of money backing a faire. I've known a number who have had little or no return on their investments or lost money. At best, faire is a marginal enterprise. If we want to play, we live with it. If not, we move on.
Quote from: Prof. John Bull on November 14, 2009, 11:34:57 PM
It is my understanding that, real world, most experienced performers negotiate contracts on the basis of their prior year contribution. As such, the performer that makes the extra effort to work the lanes between stage appearances would presumably set themselves up for a more lucrative contract the following year (as well as drawing tips or perhaps publicizing an upcoming stage show). I'm presuming an appropriate and competent level of engagement that speaks to the performer's strengths -- sleight of hand, puppetry, music, fencing, juggling flaming torches -- so as not to duplicate the efforts of the cast.
Nope :)
SOME entertainment directors value it when acts also work the street. Some don't notice, don't expect it, or don't care.
SOME owners take their ED's recommendations into account when hiring and offering pay. Some don't.
Also, it is not only difficult but often undesirable for a performer to participate in the street in the way you describe. An Aerial Angel interacting with a court member to further the daily story = A-OK and a positive contribution. But an Aerial Angel starting a fire-eating bit on the street could take the focus of every audience member within 100 feet, destroying everyone else's ability to interact one-on-one with patrons, and stepping on neighboring scheduled shows. It's darn hard to find an area at a festival to perform anything of size (have you spent a moment thinking about how big a circle one needs to safely fence near patrons, without a stage separating them from the performers?), and it's hard to do anything beyond a simple interaction with 1-10 patrons, using only improv and hand props, unless you're really dead-on with the entire scenario schedule.
QuoteMy experience is that most performers are not mercenaries but rather people who love what they do yet insist on a certain level of compensation to defray the expenses of performing and to rationalize their involvement to their families. Actors who are in it for the money do TV commercials instead.
Maybe you should think about talking to some professional performers sometime :) I'm going to take a moment and rephrase here:
"Most doctors are not mercenaries but rather people who love what they do yet insist on compensation to rationalize their involvement to their families...Doctors who are in it for the money become brain surgeons instead."
Gosh, that doesn't sound patronizing at all!
Performers do generally love what they do - it's too tough a job to do without genuinely loving it. And, as in ANY job, in order to be good enough at it to make a living, it's generally necessary to do it full time. It's the chicken and egg dilemma - it's much harder to be a good "part-time" doctor, you have to commit your whole professional time to it in order to be good enough to keep making money at it.
There are no actors who are in it solely for the money. And working professional actors in New York and LA generally don't "choose" to do commercials full-time - the work is too chancy for that. Are they grateful to get those gigs when they can? Absolutely. But it's rare to say, "I'm a full-time commercial actor" because that's not usually a choice the actor personally gets to make.
Here are three likely scenarios:
Actor A - Working NYC actor, degree from Harvard/ART. Loves stage work best of all, and is able through his superior talent and excellent work ethic to work with prominent directors in theatres that hire Equity actors. Does commercials when he can, because they subsidize his ability to do stage work. Recently got Jose Cuervo campaign (after many callbacks - he's the guy who pretends to be a senator in the back of a limo) and can now choose to take jobs when he wishes and do stage work regardless of pay. His compensation pays his rent in NYC and allows him to live a comfortable life. His family is darn proud.
Actor B - Working NYC actor, degrees from I can't recall where. Loves stage and screen, does Law and Order, NYPD Blue, and Gossip Girl as well as Off-Broadway and West End work. Recently discovered a talent for narration (he's the voice of The First 48) and makes a lot of his money from audiobooks. His compensation pays his rent, allows some investment, and maintains his family.
Actor C - Renaissance Festival performer (that's me!) who also does busking festivals, corporate events, and private parties. Has been a theatre professor, still works as a guest artist and guest director for colleges and theatres. Sometimes does a straight play if the schedule is right. Likes a mix of performing, playwriting, and teaching. Has written one of the top-ten-most-produced plays in North America, but you've never heard of it because it's for the high school market, whose money is as green as anyone else's. My compensation as a performer/writer/guest artist is higher than it was when I was a full time professor.
So I'll close this long-winded screed with this :)
"Defray expenses" MY EXPLETIVE.
I am not a performer, per say, though as a dedicated playtron, I would say that as part of the "supporting cast" of at least my home faire, I do perform, though not on a stage. I have, however, worked for a stage act. Not all stage acts are local to the festival at which they are performing, and travel on Friday and either Sunday or Monday. The Rogues have mostly non-local, at least to Scarborough, members. One flies in on Friday (having taught school all week), usually arriving VERY late, and flies back out on Sunday, arriving home close to midnight if he's lucky, so he can get up and teach on Monday. Two others teach in Houston during the week, and drive up usually Friday & home after faire on Sunday evening. Not all festival acts work ONLY as festival performers, I'm sure that there are others besides The Rogues who work full time, or nearly full time jobs during the week, at least during some of the festivals.
Between shows, generally, The Rogues aren't in the lanes drumming up shows, or busking, and if they aren't contracted for a wedding or some other event in addition to their shows, they have a few favorite places that they can just have some downtime, yet visit with patrons, other performers, or friends. They are usually not in the keep, but in public areas where they can interact with anyone who wants to interact with them.
Quote from: aerial angels on November 16, 2009, 08:04:28 PM
....
"Defray expenses" MY EXPLETIVE.
Well, no offense intended. Please note that this being the R/F board I was speaking in the context of faire performers. In other contexts, yes, I do know any number of actors and musicians who are able to build successful and lucrative careers, often through a combination of teaching and performance.
And true enough, there are a handful of fully professional performers making real money at the larger festivals. But it's rare. At the other extreme there are people with volunteer contracts that include no hat pass privileges who are just there because they want to be. The large middle is made up of people who either a) have few expenses or b) have day jobs that pay the mortgage.
Here I go limb walking again. It's dangerous but the perspective is very different out here on this limb. Let's see if I can word my thoughts so as not to offend anyone.
Is it possible that the generally offered low pay, in comparison to the mundane world, and the many acts that are willing to work for that amount may be lowering the curve of quality acts at faires?
I know there are quality acts working faires and those are the people who will be offended by that question. Those are probably the people that will answer this but those are the people that will probably agree with the generalized theory. Think about the acts that you have seen at renaissance and medieval faires that you thought had no business being on a stage anywhere. You know there are some. Those same acts wouldn't get a gig at a pub, bar, night club, TV or other types of festivals and yet there they are taking up a stage and patrons seem to be satisfied with their performance.
I can make as much playing 4 hours in a pub as I do working all day at a faire. The hat and CD sales make the real difference but the garb and traveling expenses usually eat that up.
I guess my point is, if faires could afford to pay for top quality talent it probably wouldn't draw any bigger gate and, in line with the other Economic thread on this same section of the forum, it wouldn't be good business. Therefore, the top quality acts don't have a place in that genre but are working elsewhere. The exceptions are those that are quality but can supplement their income with other means like a weekday job or outside gigs or they have such a reputation that they can demand more money and work faires all year in all parts of the country. Such acts are rare as has been said.
It is my observation that most stage performers don't try to engage with patrons outside the context of their formal performances.
a) Is my observation accurate? Depends...seriously. Some faires we work want us out there and for the more gregarious-this is a faster way to pass the day. Some want us to melt away and disappear because we take attention from the cast (seriously, if us joking around in the food line is 'competition for the cast,' one might care to reconsider the cast) and at other faires we just wing it if we're bored and it is small.
b) Is this deliberate on the part of faire EDs or just a consequence of non-overlapping skills and interests on the part of the performers?
Some faires are in more sue-worthy territory. We had to clamp down HARD when a patron dressed *similarly* to our group was pointing a flintlock at merchants, yes, we had to do a LINE UP to prove it wasn't us. Hard lesson, we travel with badges and identifiers now. As pointed out earlier milk/cow analogy as well. And one faire we work has 5 different groups that all do a little fire or swordwork, it's mostly to avoid dancing on the toes of others and setting up 'teh drama' for the ED. (PSA: Ask me about the stupidity of sword user bravado)
c) Any good examples of stage acts that don't fit this pattern?
Fire acts, specialty animal or weapons acts, geek acts are a bad idea in the lanes-too much chaos so they wouldn't interact. I could see singers or magicians sneaking out a taste/hook. We've been known to be the outside gate with a banner doing a few things but we never "work" the lanes. We have been known to play cards (historically accurate) or just do what we do to one another with a BFA or be the straight men/women for another act. We'll interact between sets but it's all personal interplay because we don't carry our equipment around-and we will back off if the cast is in our vicinity. Some faires want us to come in and act seamlessly with cast but they are the exception, not the rule.
Quote from: Prof. John Bull on November 17, 2009, 01:03:38 AM
Quote from: aerial angels on November 16, 2009, 08:04:28 PM
....
"Defray expenses" MY EXPLETIVE.
Well, no offense intended. Please note that this being the R/F board I was speaking in the context of faire performers. In other contexts, yes, I do know any number of actors and musicians who are able to build successful and lucrative careers, often through a combination of teaching and performance.
And true enough, there are a handful of fully professional performers making real money at the larger festivals. But it's rare. At the other extreme there are people with volunteer contracts that include no hat pass privileges who are just there because they want to be. The large middle is made up of people who either a) have few expenses or b) have day jobs that pay the mortgage.
Ahhhh...so you're not talking about "professional faire performers", you're talking about "everyone I ever see who appears in costume at the renfest and didn't buy a ticket to get in."
I'm not sure what to call your category, but it's not "professional performers." Or even, for that matter, "performers."
What you mean is, "the people in costume who work at the festival, of whom 80-90% are local cast".
And if you want to paint the category that broadly, then yeah, "rare" and "handful" are probably accurate. However, in the context of "professional faire performers," MOST acts at MOST faires are making a living. Why don't you take a walk backstage sometime and check out the giant trailers with the pull-outs and the big shiny pick-up trucks?
Quote from: Prof. John Bull on November 17, 2009, 01:03:38 AM
And true enough, there are a handful of fully professional performers making real money at the larger festivals. But it's rare.
Not really rare. There are a lot of acts that clear $100,000 a year plus, and, remember, all of that hat is CASH.
Local cast? Yes, they usually are working for little money, or comps, or food books. But, then again, they agreed to this, and often have few duties other than adhere to a grid system of scheduling. For many it is their social life, or break from their ordinary lives.
My last show (MiRF 2009) had 8 scenes and like 38 sword fights, we did 1 1/2 hours at front gate at opening, and at least an hour at closing. My part (just the bad guys) posed for 429 pictures in one day (I have no idea how many were snapped that we didn't pose for).
If you want to get paid, you have to work.
Dear God, Dale, I never thought I'd agree with you on anything :)
Quote from: aerial angels on November 17, 2009, 09:42:17 AM
Dear God, Dale, I never thought I'd agree with you on anything :)
In the end, I usually find those I butt heads with are more alike than different. Those that aren't passionate about what they do just roll over, or run away... ;)
Quote(It was a bit shocking to have the Queen dismiss us with barely a glance, clearly thinking we were weird patrons, when I tried to give her a flowery compliment).
Good God If I ever do that, please feel free to give me a swift kick in the ar$e!!!!!!!!!
Quote from: Prof. John Bull on November 17, 2009, 04:09:15 PM
Possession of a bright, shiny pickup truck attached to a fancy trailer is, at best, a poor marker for the financial success of a performing career.
Not in the renaissance festival circuit, it's not. If that's the professional arena we're talking about, then you may want to familiarize yourself more with the venue and talk to some of the participants - truck and trailer have reached cliche status as a marker for success in our world. When you live on the road, visible house and transportation have a great deal to say about one's level of success. Are there top-level pro acts living in tents? Maybe, but I've never met one.
At this point, Steve (John Bull), I'm interested to know more about who you are and why you're here - I've been on this forum for awhile, and I recognize the other people in this debate. You're new (welcome) and we'll all be able to address your questions with more accuracy if you fill in a bit of background.
Since you're new - I'm a professional street/festival/event performer, and have been on the renfaire circuit for going on 21 years. I've worked at festivals including Florida, Sarasota, Bay Area, Tennessee, Maryland, King Richard's, Pennsylvania, Ohio, Sterling, Bristol, Kansas City, Scarborough and numerous smaller fairs. I've been volunteer and professional cast, street act, stage act, administration, crafter, and drafted proposals and business plans for new faires and faires doing a change of direction. I wrote the cast handbook on improv and interaction for Bay Area. I'm familiar with most major management companies and corporations on the circuit. I also work in corporate entertainment, and have performed at events and street festivals all over the world, most recently doing a 7 week tour in the Balkans. As a professional playwright and director, I serve as a guest artist for existing companies, theatres and schools. Most recently I created and directed Fallen at the University of Alaska, directed Midsummer Night's Dream for Rollins College (Florida), and taught workshops as the American representative at Mondial du Theatre in Monaco. My plays are published through Theatrefolk.
As a working artist, I'm vested in not only my own success and that of my friends and colleagues, but also in noticing more about the perception of artists in the world. Right now I'm reading blogs by Neil Gaiman, Hazel Dooney (who has awesome things to say about art and marketing), Amanda Palmer and Hugh Macleod (Gaping Void). I am fascinated by all of their takes on art, money, and the profession of being a full-time working creator and performer, and how all those things intertwine. Amanda Palmer recently addressed the issue of virtual hat pass in a brilliant post called, "Why I am not afraid to take your money", and Hugh Macleod has just put out a fabulous book, "Ignore Everybody" that expands on his post, "How to Be Creative", which is about being a working artist (Hugh, btw, advises people NOT to quit their day job, and he's been writing lately about the evolution of his "day job" - which is now the part of his artistic career that pays the bills).
What's your faire experience and theatrical background? Why are you invested in these particular issues? What brings you here? What is your research and sources up to this point, and why do you seek additional information from this forum?
Allison Williams
Artistic Director
Aerial Angels
www.angelsintheair.com
I suspect that part of the problem is a lack of familiarity with the differences between East and West Coast events.
Out here (California) the emphasis is not on the stage shows but on the entire venue. The whole site is considered to be a stage.
I suspect that Bristol is probably a good example of this since both it and RPFS are owned by REP and we have shared entertainment directors.
Since I've not yet had the opportunity to visit an event on the opposite coast, I can only base my suspicions on the threads I've seen here and on other forums.
I get the impression that there is a much greater emphasis on stage shows. Out here, stage shows are important, but I don't feel that they have as significant an impact on the overall production.
RPFS has evolved over a period of 47 years from what was basically an outdoor classroom exercise in Elizabethan history to an event with stage shows, games, crafts, joust, and a large number of street characters who are basically the villagers. The latter come with varying levels of artistic skill, but they all contribute to the overall ambiance. They have to attend workshops and have an approved costume. A significant number of workshops are geared to developing improv skills.
When I first started faire, I was basically a construction hand and banner carrier. I became sufficiently confident that I began doing minor gigs with others and did meet & greet.
Unfortunately, the body no longer permits a more physically active role so I and my wife went to a fair amount of effort creating a major anachronism called Lightning Scooter-Horse. This allows me to continue to interact with the public, provide an amusing photo op, interact with the children of visitors and others who have mobility problems.
My wife and sister give demonstrations of household skills of the period such as spinning, crocheting and knitting. In fact, my wife was asked to and created a group to provide such demonstrations at other events in the area.
The stage artists are important to the show, but they are one part of it. We make up another part which I feel also makes a significant contribution.
To be truthful, I rarely have the time to attend stage shows since I'm usually out in the street. The folks who pay at the gate don't have this limitation.
Quote from: aerial angels on November 18, 2009, 10:43:40 AM
Amanda Palmer recently addressed the issue of virtual hat pass in a brilliant post called, "Why I am not afraid to take your money", and Hugh Macleod has just put out a fabulous book, "Ignore Everybody" that expands on his post, "How to Be Creative", which is about being a working artist (Hugh, btw, advises people NOT to quit their day job, and he's been writing lately about the evolution of his "day job" - which is now the part of his artistic career that pays the bills).
Thank you for sharing those Allison,
and that's quite the dossier!
Again, I'm very late to the discussion, and although it appears to have veered off the side of a cliff, I have a slightly different answer for
some of the questions.
Quote from: Prof. John Bull on November 13, 2009, 01:15:09 PM
It is my observation that most stage performers don't try to engage with patrons outside the context of their formal performances. Being deliberately broad so as not to offend anyone, I would note that most musicians, magicians, comedians, fire performers, dancers, and acrobats I have seen perform their shows and then either disappear or see the faire without adopting a persona and interacting improvisationally with patrons after the hat pass is complete. Another way of looking at it is that there is little overlap between performers and cast.
I'm wondering...
a) Is my observation accurate?
b) Is this deliberate on the part of faire EDs or just a consequence of non-overlapping skills and interests on the part of the performers?
c) Any good examples of stage acts that don't fit this pattern?
You say "outside the context of their formal performances". I have to ask what that means. do you mean stage performers doing a street act as opposed to interacting with you about coming to their next show? If you mean they don't do street bits with the street cast, then you are mostly correct. The reason is most stage acts just arrived days before the festival opened, having come from their last festival and as such have not rehearsed anything with the cast to do anything in the street(nor were they hired to do such). The cast has usually been rehearsing for several weeks at least before a faire opens and have their own thing going.
Is this deliberate? it's a consequence of the scheduling. Are you going to pay a stage act money for all the weeks of rehearsal that they will be missing some other show? Very doubtful.
However, I think you're missing something very important. There are other things that need to be taken care of before and after a stage show.
Why don't you think you ever see the jousters out and about? They are taking care of the horses. I've had this same conversation with many people in casts all over the country who always look at the jousters as this aloof group of snobs because they never hang out after the show with the cast or the stage acts. It's because while you've gone off to dinner after the faire and are sitting there relaxing, they are cleaning, grooming, and feeding those horses. ...and THEN they get to go to dinner. I have several friends who are jousters and they are very much tied to the maintenance of the horses, they can't be more than 2 hours away from them unless they have a day off and someone else is taking care of them.
My own show is physically demanding, and afterward I need to stop, drink water, reset props, fix anything that broke, and any number of things to do before the next show. to give you an idea, at King Richard's my schedule goes like this: be at front gate and welcome guests, talk up my show, do some juggling at the gate, talk up my show, make some jokes, talk up my show... then I have 2 stage shows, back to back. I then have one hour to eat something for lunch after having been on stage for almost an hour and a half. then I have 2 more shows back to back. I then take a short break (sarcasm). I then go back to the front gate and do a little juggling, talk to fans, wave bye to people, and the day is over. ...I'm swamped.
Do I have interaction with the cast? Sure, if/when I actually see them. Is it some sort of planned lazzi ....no, but sometimes by half-way point of the faire, sometimes certain things work out. At one particular faire I was always running to get some food at the same time of day, and passing by some street characters that were always doing some lazzi by this particular tree, so I would stop and interact with them each day, almost a drive-by sort of thing. eventually we worked out some witty banter, so by the last day of the faire, it was brilliant... But that was all the time I had to interact.
As for some stage acts that specifically have characters that interact with people (usually, like me, on the way to another show); Don Juan and Miguel, Giacomo the Jester, Looney Lucy... there are so many more, but each one of these people have such strong characters, the interaction can be just a "hello, good day" and you remember it.
Then there is Sir Real the puppet man, who does The Flying Freak show (Sterling, King Richard's, FLARF). he does a stage act, but he is also out with stilts and hobby horses and other things that have nothing to do with his show. He doesn't talk about his stage show while doing these other characters. So, I guess that is the example you're looking for. Someone who does a stage show and also street that are unrelated. There are plenty of stage acts that interact, but it is usually related to getting people to their show... after all, it is their main way to make money, the more people at the show, the more potential hat, and the better they look to the ED and faire owner.
...ta da.
Paolo