TRF, How big is too big?

[brier patch charlie]

Funny I never really noticed the large crowd at TRF, I know their there. But for I treat it as if it's a small village and everybody has come out. But if it is as over crowed as many think it is, then they could expand the place, or add a whole nother day on, and make it 3 days. But I don't see that happening. Before long attendance will drop and it will go back to the numbers that it was. It's some thing to do that's close to home, unlike driving across the state to see or do. And when the new wears off and it's become the same thing as the last year we might see a few less danes.

[KeeperoftheBar]

I like to go to TRF very early.  I am usually there about an hour or so before cannon.  When you get inside the gates and leave the front area, there are very few people around.  Mostly hardcores like myself and a few danes.  It is later in the day when the crowds become thick.  And by then I am so at ease being "home" they don't bother me, except at the Sea Devil where you almost need a shoehorn to get in.  Luckily most people are understanding and try to get out of my way before I run them over (Can you say "Ramming Speed!").  I do tend to leave earlier than I would like because StudMuffin starts pooing out.   So, no, I don't think TRF is too big and I have not missed a year since 1991.

[ravic]

Almost comes down to a Small Town/Big City debate. They each have their pros & cons. Some people thrive better at one than the other.

[Zardoz]

This years total was total was 449,786. Black Friday had half the crowd as last year, 15,000 vs. 38,000. If it had not been cold and rainy in Houston (didn't rain much at the faire) on that Friday morning, there might have been another 15,000 folks in that total. There were 2 Saturdays with over 30,000, and 2 Sundays with over 25,000.

[Delireus]

I went this past Saturday, my friend and I left early and didn't have a problem with traffic, but my cousin came an hour later and had 2 hours of traffic going there! It was her first time there and I hope the crowd/traffic didn't put her off. We also sat still for an hour after fireworks when they finally let us out through the camping entrance/exit. One woman told us she had been there for an hour and a half as we were walking to our car to leave. Kinda glad we stayed for fireworks

[Fenster]

Speaking of fireworks does anyone know why they made us all wait so long to start them?  Seems the last few years they started as soon as it was dark enough.

We had no traffic issues on Saturday after fireworks, but we were headed towards 105 which is usually less crowded.

[Morrigan]

Speaking of fireworks does anyone know why they made us all wait so long to start them?  Seems the last few years they started as soon as it was dark enough.

We had no traffic issues on Saturday after fireworks, but we were headed towards 105 which is usually less crowded.

The start time of fireworks is determined largely by the gate count.  More people in the gate = later start time.   This is because the primary function of the fireworks is to slow down and spread out the exodus at the end of the day, which helps to mitigate the fustercluck in the parking lot.   It doesn't eliminate the problem completely, but believe me, it DOES help.

[Aiacha]

The start time of fireworks is determined largely by the gate count.  More people in the gate = later start time.   This is because the primary function of the fireworks is to slow down and spread out the exodus at the end of the day, which helps to mitigate the fustercluck in the parking lot.   It doesn't eliminate the problem completely, but believe me, it DOES help.

Thank you, that was very interesting.  We were wondering why Fireworks on friday were 6:30 pm or so, but not until after 7pm on Saturday.

*ding* The More You Know

[Fenster]

The start time of fireworks is determined largely by the gate count.  More people in the gate = later start time.   This is because the primary function of the fireworks is to slow down and spread out the exodus at the end of the day, which helps to mitigate the fustercluck in the parking lot.   It doesn't eliminate the problem completely, but believe me, it DOES help.

Thanks, good to know for the future.  I wonder if there's way to let everyone know this though.  There are a lot of people out there wondering about the wait when the program says dusk.

[Morrigan]

Thanks, good to know for the future.  I wonder if there's way to let everyone know this though.  There are a lot of people out there wondering about the wait when the program says dusk.

Why the need to "let everyone know this"?  It's not a big secret, but it's not exactly vital info, either.  Sure, they could list on the schedule some complicated explanation of why the start times can vary and what things factor into the determination... but that would have to be some awfully tiny writing to fit in that little space.  Or, they can use the term "dusk", which most people understand to mean "sometime around sunset".  (Please, no pointless debates to the exact definition of dusk.)   Personally, I think they've made the right choice in using the second option, as a little wondering and/or waiting never killed anybody!   

[SaucyWench]

Just a random comment from someone who is behind the scenes a bit:

TRF has been 8 weekends longer than TRF has been going over Thanksgiving weekend.  A few years.  I think TRF went from 7 to 8 weekends in... 2005.  I could be mistaken, though.

TRF's 8 weekends were moved back because Minnesota (our sister faire) moved their faire back a week.  Had TRF not moved back to encompass the last weekend in November (convenient that it was Thanksgiving and includes Black Friday) they would have lost a great deal of their cast and vendors due to overlap for the first weekend in October .  Many, many folks do both MNRF and TRF and that one week overlap would force them to choose.  Considering both are huge, money-making festivals, this would have been a tremendous problem.  Solution?  Move TRF back a week!  Ta-da!

Adding a weekend to TRF would NOT reduce the crowds on other weekends.  It would just mean another weekend of big crowds.  However, it's unlikely they would add another weekend.  If they add it in the front, they overlap with MNRF.  If they add it at the end, they overlap with Dickens on the Strand.  Neither is a winning situation for anyone involved.

HOWEVER, please take everything I say with a grain of salt.  I am no expert and I don't know George.  The only thing I know about George is that he likes to change things

Oh, and Black Friday was really low this year.  According to the Beefeaters, it was only 14,491.  No big screen TVs at TRF!  Ha!

Thanks!

[Singed]

I think the weather on Friday had more to do with the crowds than any other factors.  My casual and completely unscientific observations made Friday out as a crowd mostly composed of those who are more than casual attendees,  rennies, playtrons, peoplewho enjoy the experience, whatever words you wish to use to describe those who are more "in" to faire than the average guy on the street.  It looked like a higher percentage of people in garb, or attempting to be in garb, or at least doing something interesting / funny, than a normal day, it also seemed laid back and friendly.  I enjoyed Friday. 

[ravic]

Saucywench,

TRF did not go to 8 weekends until the Thanksgiving move. 2007 i.e. the frozen hell. He made the Thanksgiving decision as a marketing move. Seems to have paid off for him.

The only relation between MNRF & TRF is the fact that George started both of them. He sold MNRF to free up the capital for TRF.

George could give a rat's weed puller about how his schedule affects vendors. There may be many mutual vendors with MNRF but it's not necessarily the same physical crews. Lots of absentee landlords at TRF.

Many of the vendors complain about the 8th weekend because it denies them holiday time with their families, denies them time to make or receive inventory, trashes their travel time to other faires & events forcing them to cancel portions of their circuit.

[Delireus]

I caught the last joust of the day at 5 and after that was over, they announced a direct time for the fireworks, 7:15. I was really surprised because it was getting dark around 5:30 and we still had almost 2 hours before the fireworks! But now I know why it was later than 'dusk' and I'm glad I stayed because while the wait for traffic was bad, at least I caught fireworks and avoided another hour in the car

[Zardoz]

Adding a weekend to TRF would NOT reduce the crowds on other weekends.  It would just mean another weekend of big crowds. 

I agree with that, so the question sort of comes down to how to deal with the crowds that are there. If things keep going the way they have, next year might see a total close to 500,000 people.