SWFF Patron's Campgrounds

[PollyPoPo]

Perhaps I can add a bit in answer to few queries from my limited experience camping at Sherwood, TRF, and various  non-faire camps through the years.

Someone asked about where groups can set up reserved areas.  Management has made certain areas available for open camping and others for reserved.  The groups choose their area and are responsible for that area.  There had been a waiting list for reserved areas and perhaps still is.  It is not a land-grab such as at TRF each weekend. 

As for blocking off access to port-a-potties, etc., no.  However, some groups do have their own port-a-potties which they arrange for and pay for themselves.  If a port-a-potty has a lock or is enclosed by barrier, it is private. 

The reserved areas are set up so as to not block any entrances to the main camp road, the open camping, and the faire.  Some entrances are actually driveways into the reserved areas – that is why they seem blocked – they are dead ends.  I believe other road barriers prevent customers from accidently driving into the workers campground (never driven down them myself).

Regarding plainly marking reserved areas, the groups are limited as to what materials they can use.  For instance, the plastic flags or plastic warning tapes are not permitted.  There are new reserved areas where they simply have not had time to put up fences or markings.  Anything outside of the open camping area should be viewed as reserved whether it is marked or not. 

The reserved areas also include parking spots that the groups have cleared and possibly surfaced themselves (bull dozer, wood chips, etc.).  Including parking spots in their area is part of what groups are required to do in order to have a reserved site.

As for wandering into "unmarked" areas, a basic rule of thumb is that open camping area campers should probably be encouraged to follow the "rock-paved" roads rather than cutting through any areas outside of the open camping.  This is not just to avoid possible intrusion on other campers, but also because many places are not cleared.  It is easy to get turned around in the late afternoon or night, not to mention face-planting into uncleared brush.  We have had people stumbling through campsites between tents, not having a clue which way to go because they tried to take a short-cut and found themselves in the middle of a jumble of undergrowth.  We have seen them follow a fence line trying to find an opening – a fence that separates the customer campgrounds from the worker campgrounds - there is no entrance to get in there. 

As for privacy and entitlements, please keep in mind that there are many and varied clans/groups.  While some may be young adult party groups that actually restrict themselves to age 21 and up, there are others that are comprised of mostly older people who retire early or maybe they party all night, too.  Still others have children with them.  Walking through a campsite might put you walking between tents with children in them.  If a stranger seems to be sneaking around the children's tents, they can expect to be stopped and escorted out.  Just because a tent might look empty does not mean there is nobody there. 

Many of the reserved areas have an obvious entranceway approaching the fire.  It's like the front door. You can wave at the people around a fire and may be invited to sit a while – or not, if they don't want company.   Some will have parties to which everybody is invited.  Some might let a newcomer pitch a tent with them if you fit in with the group.  Others allow only persons they personally know to stay in their camps.

There is a camping etiquette that sometimes gets forgotten at some faire campgrounds.  Just Google "campground etiquette walking through other campsites" to get an idea of what is generally okay and what might be considered rude.  They are not "rules" but guidelines. 

Sherwood is trying to encourage all types of campers to feel comfortable there.  A little respect for differences goes a long way.

[9sparksfly]

RowenD - that's my point precisely.  I saw MANY other clan areas; all were clearly (and awesomely!) marked.  I read that enclosures had to meet certain guidelines, but a simple rope (or even a sign) would have been pretty effective.

But, to their credit, it wasn't just a case of someone wandering in.  Like I said earlier, even though my husband and I had no idea what was going on, these guys had pointedly asked our camping buddy to stay the eff out.  Do I think that gave them the right to vent their frustrations on his two companions, who'd clearly never met them?  Nah.  And I certainly don't think it gave them the right to detain us, prevent us from leaving the way we came, or threaten us. 

It does make sense, though, that if I was the one who'd cleared the land and who'd created the shortcut in the first place, I'd feel pretty possessive.  I'm glad I know, now! 

[Bonny Pearl]

I'm a bit lost on all of this.  I thought this was in 'clan camping' not general.  Either way I wouldn't think anyone would have legal right to 'detain' anyone.  Usually a state/fed badge, a crime committed, etc., is required for something like that...??

Would you please clarify your use of the word 'detain' just to be sure something isn't lost in translation?  Are you stating that they physically blocked your ability and attempt(s) to leave their camp area even though they wanted you out of it?

Thanks!

[Morrigan]

mpullen and pollypopo, thank you for helping clarify what actually goes into having designated "clan" areas.   Overall, I think it's a fantastic idea, and completely understand and support a group of people having a sense of propriety and possession over a "home" that they have worked so hard to prepare and maintain.   Even beyond designated, mapped "Clan" areas, the same concept still applies in general camping, doesn't it?  I have camped in community campgrounds, and understand perfectly the concept of "Our camp", and "your camp" and "their camp".    You get there, you set up a camp of several people, set up whatever social areas and amenities (portapotties, kitchen area, etc) you want in said camp, and use rope/ribbon/arrangement of tents and cars to help designate that area as "yours".  And you ask others NOT to traipse through it, and have a reasonable expectation that others will respect those boundaries.   I GET that.  And I SUPPORT it.

9sparksfly is bending over backwards here to accommodate and understand the viewpoints of people who verbally assaulted and abused her and her husband, disallowed them to leave when they desperately wanted to do so, and in general behaved in such a way that she felt very frightened and traumatized... which in my eyes suggests that she is NOT exaggerating her description of the altercation for the purpose of stirring a pot.  Rather, I suspect that she may even be downplaying it a bit, considering that days later she is still shaken by the experience.

The big issue of concern here - and the one that it would behoove mpullen to address w/ camping groups (especially the group in question) - is this: If someone DOES violate the boundaries of your camp, whether by accident or intent, that does not give you the right to handle it in ways that BREAK THE LAW.   I don't care if the situation had been completely different in character, if someone had blatantly disregarded a roped off area and repeatedly crossed a camp despite being asked not to... That camp is not an autonomous land, and its residents are not a law unto themselves.  They are not law enforcement officers, and thus they actually ARE fairly limited in what they are LEGALLY allowed to do to prevent people from merely trespassing on ground they have claimed as theirs.   If I am to understand this situation correctly, it sure sounds like some laws were broken.  The "trespassers" were verbally assaulted, and if that verbal assault contained any language that directly or indirectly threatened violence, that's a Terroristic Threat. - a Class B Misdemeanor.  They were willfully detained, without their consent, and by people who were not law enforcement officials, and that's False Imprisonment or Unlawful Restraint - a Class B Misdemeanor.  She did not specify whether this detention involved simply bodily blocking their path and verbal intimidation, or actual physical restraint.. but if it did involve the latter, we are talking about Assault by touch or threat - a Class C Misdemeanor.   See where I'm going with this?  The PROPER way for this group to have handled this - especially if they had reason to believe that their boundaries were being willfully and repeatedly violated - would have been to call security, point out the violators, and have THEM deal with the situation LEGALLY.  Instead, they chose to handle this situation by victimizing some people who made an innocent mistake, and break several laws in the process (laws which still would have been broken even if their targets HAD been intentionally trespassing.)

Now, I'm truly not trying to be gratuitously inflammatory, here.    And I am absolutely not holding SFF responsible for the actions of this particular group... yet.  But I am certainly alarmed at the very idea that this type of behavior would be allowed, defended, justified, or sanctioned by ANYONE, especially by the organizers of the campground.   But if it IS?  And this is considered OK?   Yeah, it would certainly prevent me from camping there, or from recommending anyone else do so.

   

[Bonny Pearl]

Yes, that is why I would like a bit more clarification on what these people did.  I do not believe this event is false, being blown out of proportion on purpose by Sparks, etc., just want to break it down a bit.  Words are powerful and convey a lot and when reading them in forums they can sometimes be misconstrued.  I am shocked by it to say the least.

I am not so sure I would have handled things so calmly as Sparks and her husband did.... oy that would have been a scene lol.    Anyone who knows me can attest to that lol! *whistles innocently*

[PollyPoPo]

Just so people who have not been to Sherwood know, there is campground security available. 

Absolutely there should be no laws broken.  However, in this case, for whatever reason, the incident was apparently not reported to security nor were law enforcement notified.  Had security been notified, this entire thread would probably not exist. 

If someone believes they are in danger, or a crime has been committed, all they have to do is report it to someone in security.  The open camping area is close enough to the entrance gate to just walk over and tell them there is a problem.  The guy there has communication with security.  Campers could always call 911 if they have a phone, but it's probably easier and quicker to get security.

People have been evicted (from reserved as well as open camping) for fighting.  Push it far enough and security can easily bring in law enforcement.

[Merlin the Elder]

I'm not a camper there, but Bonny is correct in asking for some clarification. Someone from the "other" side of the altercation might be nice.  Based on what I've read, the clan felt threatened (for lack of a better word) by the friend of the couple, having had previous run-ins during the day.  If the previous run-ins involved theft of property or some other illegal activity, then maybe they did have some right to be a bit edgy.

Without knowing all of the details from both sides, none of us can really be an effective judge of what went on.

[Bonny Pearl]

Either way I am sure Mike will get to the bottom of it if he hasn't already and handle it accordingly.  I love Sherwood and am excited about going this coming weekend, and yes we are camping.  We didn't get to go last season at all so I won't let a one time event deter me nor should it deter anyone else.  It really is a great faire and has a lot of warmth and friendliness to it. 

[scarletnyx]

Either way I am sure Mike will get to the bottom of it if he hasn't already and handle it accordingly.  I love Sherwood and am excited about going this coming weekend, and yes we are camping.  We didn't get to go last season at all so I won't let a one time event deter me nor should it deter anyone else.  It really is a great faire and has a lot of warmth and friendliness to it.

Amen to that! Sherwood is SO MUCH MORE than the weird, one time off thing that these two lovely ladies experienced. It is warmth and fun and great conversation and beautiful scenery. It's a quiet, tranquil pool away from the torrents that crash each and every one of us into jagged rocks every day. I cannot tell you how much my mood has been improved this year by simply going to SWFF each weekend at least for one day. I feel rested and revitalized and quiet among the loudness of this world.


..... Is it Friday night yet? I want a fire, a good book, a good hookah set up and my fairemly.

[PollyPoPo]

Perhaps we'll see each other, Bonny Pearl.

And, yes, I am certain Mike Pullen will handle the situation. 

I will not speculate as to what actually happened.  However, I do know that Sherwood management and security, working on conjunction with law enforcement, are doing all they can to make camping safe for all campers.

[spikey]

I would like to assure everyone that this event did NOT happen at the Impaler campsite.

[KiltedPrivateer]

I think MissMoo, who was not part of this event, needs to curb her/his comments as they have repeatedly taken the comments of 9sparksfly and misconstrued them.  Additionally, Miss 9sparksfly has left out some details which are required to understand the full story.

That said, the event described should never had happened.  All clans are required to have a 2-way radio that is programmed for the faire frequency in order to call security.  Mike, you should probably remind some of the clans of this.  We keep two in our camp, just in case the batteries die on one.  Assuming a legitimate clan in their reserved area, and not general campers assuming control of their temporary land grab, I would expect Mike to address the group leader and the leader in turn to address his/her members.  I agree that this is out of line and no visitor to our camp ground should be treated like this from a clan.

I would like to echo the remarks of others that this is not typical of the Sherwood campground.  This may be a new clan who needs to be reminded of how we are expected to behave ourselves.  In the end, the land belongs to SWFF and we can be evicted at any time.

9sparksfly, I apologize for the mis-treatment that you experienced.  I surely hope that this event will not deter you from camping again in the forest.  The forest is a beautiful and magical place.  Sometimes, we have to fend off the trolls to enjoy it.

All the best,

Lorde Charles

Clan Procrastination

[GryffinSong]

Is there a thread somewhere on the general forum that describes, in general, what's expected at a faire camp? I don't even know what people are talking about with clans. If I camp someplace this year, will someone explain all the "in crowd" assumptions to folks who are only familiar with KOA camping and such? Quite frankly, whatever happened in this specific instance, this has me a bit nervous about faire camping in general, especially as I'd probably be by myself with no faire-savvy people to show me the ropes.

[9sparksfly]

Detained as in surrounded by five angry people, yelled at, and, when I asked to simply return the way we came, not allowed to (in lieu of handing us over to security that we might be thrown out or otherwise punished). I broke down I tears, and it was only at that point that we were "allowed" an escort out (by the clan leader, I'm assuming - he walked us out).

I assure you, I'm leaving out no details (save the name of the clan, as I feel it does no good to throw that around a public forum). 

[9sparksfly]

Also, we did report the incident to Shane with campground security.