input and critique

[rengypsy]

sherwood forest faire opens it's gates one month from today to its 5th season..

i have been reading various blogs online about folk's experiences at sherwood.  they have been inspiring.

from the onset of the faire, there was the intent to create community.  i think we are well on the way of a viable, thriving and lively community who enjoy the experience, love to gather both during the faire and in the off season, and hopefully, one day, we may actually be fortunate enough to have a year round community called nottingham adjacent to faire.

another interest and core value was to have sherwood be a inter-generational setting where anyone from the very youngest to the elderly would feel at home.

i realize we drink.  i realize we partake in the revere of medieval tavern fun.  but there should be places for families and kids.  often times in the past, this happened on work days, at the seven sisters, and at the cover dishes during gatherings.

i really want your thoughts on ways we can encourage and enhance the family experience without negating the authenticity and obvious desire of many to partake in beverages and enjoy adult conversation, as well.

so...share your thoughts.

rengypsy

[KiltedPrivateer]

Through my short life history (37 years), there was a time for the kids early in the night.  The kids were dismissed around 8p and the time following was adult time.

Your problem will be getting the adults who have little concern for others to control themselves during the family time.

Current world dilemma - the "ME" syndrome.  Others be damned. 

Foster a community that has an inclusive respect throughout its membership, and worries such as when to be an unruly adult and when to behave in front of the children will work themselves out on their own.

[PollyPoPo]

Sigh, I started to type up some examples of mean, sloppy drunks I have personally seen at Sherwood and it was so disgusting I could not in good conscience put the words here.

I'll try to submit some suggestions but it will take some thinking to do so without asking for a gibbot.

[Merlin the Elder]

Polly, I suppose it's either because we tend to leave mid-afternoon, or because we only come opening weekend, but I haven't run into any of the drunken idiots. That said, wherever there is alcohol, there are going to be abusers.  Without alcohol, you will still have idiot jerks, but they will be sober.

Focal points for those who wish to party hard and those with children should be physically separated.  Only the parent can decide which is best, and not all parents will make a good choice.  This is where the community should kick in: a parent making a poor choice may possibly be swayed by friends within the community, gently ushering and urging them into a more suitable environment. It might even require someone watching the kids while the parent sleeps off a drunken stupor.  I don't know...it's a really tough call to make.

[Crimson]

My kids are older teenagers (18, 15).  I brought them to faire as younger kids but didn't start camping with them until last year.  They are pretty responsible kids and the things they see at this age are things they're going to see in college.  That said, even when they were younger we just avoided the rowdy bunches.  Or pointed and laughed.  Sorry, I didn't really give suggestions, did I...

[PollyPoPo]

Without a way to change people's individual attitudes and behaviors, perhaps faire management could look how amenities for families are handled as opposed to catering more specifically to drinking adults.  I am making the assumption that you are looking for a community atmosphere for the commercial Faire, camping, and gatherings.

During Faire hours:

1.     Seating - other than stages the first year there was little seating except the Pub; people with children were (and still are) actively discouraged from sitting there.  This has been partially rectified by placing more picnic tables and benches throughout the faire.  More seating not situated right by a tavern might help.  As an example, a major draw is the tea party, which draws dozens of children.  Yet, where are the parents supposed to sit while the tea party is going on?  Are they supposed to just wander off shopping?  That's not what they are going to do.  They're going to stand there, get tired, and be ready to leave faire. 

2.     Shelter for wet cold weather.  Is there any shelter with or without seating that is not the center of drinking and adult entertainment?  The Pub and 3 Stags are not suitable for families.  Is the new Hall another adult tavern?  Is it going to be available for shelter during the faire?  Parents may bring the kids out once and get caught in the rain; they probably aren't going to bring them back again if there is no place to get out of the rain for a while.

In the campgrounds:

1.   ...   nope.  Not going to post here.

2.   ...  nope.  Not going to post here.

During gatherings:

1.   Ask the various leaders to encourage their groups to avoid extreme drunken behavior until 10:00 (a formerly stated cutoff for family-time).

2.   Keep an eye out for behavior that is not conducive to inclusivity.  Not everyone appreciates some of the activities performed at the bonfire, whether they have children with them or not.  If certain activities are driving several people away, perhaps management could discourage that behavior.  If such behaviors are left unchecked, eventually, only those people who enjoy such behavior will remain.

[rengypsy]

as i mentioned in a private email to you, i wholly appreciate your responses and suggestions.  we will be meeting with our admin team to address these concerns and ideas you have provided.  it will take the entire community to help assure the faire provides adequate safe environment for families to feel at home and comfortable.

some of your suggestions require structural construction and its too late this year to accomplish that, but we will take that up at the end of faire when planning.

i encourage others to voice their ideas.

i want to see the faire generational.  i want kids and their parents to believe this is a comfortable and decent venue where they can spend time--during faire and at our gatherings.

many thanks
rengypsy

[prothos]

Not everyone one feels the same as Polly. I rarely drink and dont get wild or stupid. But people go to the faire to let thier hair down and enjoy themselves and the fun of others. Granted some things can go a bit far like the Bondage camp that was at TRF. I get a laugh out of the drunkeness. The wishes of a few should not be forced on the masses. I could spin it and say that children under 18 should not be allowed to camp. If you dont want your kids seeing things they shouldnt keep them at your camp or at home.
The is a free country not a police state and we as a country has seemed to forgot this and try to push the views of the minority on the masses.

Sorry if i offended anyone

[dbaldock]

Not everyone one feels the same as Polly. I rarely drink and dont get wild or stupid. But people go to the faire to let thier hair down and enjoy themselves and the fun of others. Granted some things can go a bit far like the Bondage camp that was at TRF. I get a laugh out of the drunkeness. The wishes of a few should not be forced on the masses. I could spin it and say that children under 18 should not be allowed to camp. If you dont want your kids seeing things they shouldnt keep them at your camp or at home.
The is a free country not a police state and we as a country has seemed to forgot this and try to push the views of the minority on the masses.

Sorry if i offended anyone

Just wondering if you read the original post that started this discussion?

Quote from "rengypsy":

"...
another interest and core value was to have sherwood be a inter-generational setting where anyone from the very youngest to the elderly would feel at home.

i realize we drink.  i realize we partake in the revere of medieval tavern fun.  but there should be places for families and kids.  often times in the past, this happened on work days, at the seven sisters, and at the cover dishes during gatherings.

i really want your thoughts on ways we can encourage and enhance the family experience without negating the authenticity and obvious desire of many to partake in beverages and enjoy adult conversation, as well.
..."

[PollyPoPo]

No offense taken, Prothos. 

As Dbaldock kindly pointed out I was replying to a specific request from Rengypsy as to how Sherwood (commercial faire, campgrounds, community) could be made more inclusive, meaning to include families, not just adults.

There are many who would prefer an adult-only atmosphere.  If that were the goal, it would be simple to achieve by creating a minimum age.  However,a minimum age of 21 would be more appropriate.  That is the age for most establishments advertised as adult only.  The 21 age would help to protect management/owners from any legal action involving underage drinking.   

It would be very easy to create a 21 and older campgrounds or the entire faire if that were what management/owners wanted. 

[RenStarr]

Not everyone one feels the same as Polly. I rarely drink and dont get wild or stupid. But people go to the faire to let thier hair down and enjoy themselves and the fun of others. Granted some things can go a bit far like the Bondage camp that was at TRF. I get a laugh out of the drunkeness. The wishes of a few should not be forced on the masses. I could spin it and say that children under 18 should not be allowed to camp. If you dont want your kids seeing things they shouldnt keep them at your camp or at home.
The is a free country not a police state and we as a country has seemed to forgot this and try to push the views of the minority on the masses.

Sorry if i offended anyone

I am not sure that your statement "try to push the views of the minority on the masses" is a true and accurate statement.  I believe just the opposite is true.  The majority of folks would agree with Polly and also agree with RenGypsy's view of having an environment where families are welcome and feel comfortable.  At the same time, there should be a "time and place" where adults can let thier hair down and not worry about offending a parent that has kids present.  Parents should understand that as the evening progresses in the camp grounds, kids should be off to bed or at least be shielded from certain activities and areas.  Parents should also realize that a pub is place where some saltly language is going to fly around some, and that should be taken in consideration BEFORE taking any minor into said pub.   
Polly's observations about having a covered gathering area that doesn't center around a pub is a good idea.  I hope Faire Administration looks into that at some point in future.
I don't want to see any Faire turn into Disney World (on several different levels), at the same time the long term future of any Faire is bringing new people into the environment that enjoy themselves and want to come back year after year.  Getting kids involved is part of that process. 
 

[PollyPoPo]

As an aside,

One thing I have seen offered (here and in the many adult vs family conversations) is the idea of keeping children in their own camp or putting them to bed at a specific time.

I have personally found that this is not a viable solution.  Adult misbehavior wanders into our campsite, at all hours of the day and night.  Literally, fighting drunks have to be chased out of campsites in the mid-afternoon. 

If the intrusive adult behavior becomes too extreme, people with children will either not bring them or stop camping.  If some behavior becomes so objectionable to certain groups, those groups will look to management to see what solution might be possible.  If there is no solution, those groups will stop camping.   

[KiltedPrivateer]

Not everyone one feels the same as Polly. I rarely drink and dont get wild or stupid. But people go to the faire to let thier hair down and enjoy themselves and the fun of others. Granted some things can go a bit far like the Bondage camp that was at TRF. I get a laugh out of the drunkeness. The wishes of a few should not be forced on the masses. I could spin it and say that children under 18 should not be allowed to camp. If you dont want your kids seeing things they shouldnt keep them at your camp or at home.
The is a free country not a police state and we as a country has seemed to forgot this and try to push the views of the minority on the masses.

Sorry if i offended anyone

Actually, you've pissed me off.   I'll refrain from ripping you apart here though.  I will suggest that you learn the definition of community.

Michael Wrenn
Lorde Charles
Current Captain of Clan Procrastination

[rengypsy]

one of the things i really like is the creation of clans with their own designated space.  the clans can then set their limits in a general sense.  and they can manage most of the behavior they deem inappropriate from within and without...calling on security when the matter is beyond what they desire to control.  that is community.

i want this thread to continue.

administration is reading and discussing the ideas and concerns (on either side of the discussion)...

thanks so much

rengypsy

[rengypsy]

another note.

we have no intention of creating a disney-esque environment.

authenticity is one of our core values.

so is family friendly.