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Offline LadyJessica

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Rules Disscussion and Ideas
« on: June 13, 2009, 10:48:45 AM »
In response to several questions about the rules and if/how they should be changed I am opening up a discussion thread.  I ask that you keep it civil.  If you have any ideas for rules or changes to the rules please list them here.

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Offline LadyJessica

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Re: Rules Disscussion and Ideas
« Reply #1 on: June 13, 2009, 10:49:25 AM »

These are the rules and regulations as they stand now:


Faires

1.The U.S. will be split into 7 sections:

a.Northeast: Maine, New Hampshire, Vermont, Massachusetts, Connecticut, New York
b.East: Pennsylvania, Delaware, Maryland, New Jersey, Virginia, West Virginia
c.Southeast: Tennessee, North Carolina, South Carolina, Georgia, Florida, Alabama, Mississippi
d.Midwest: Ohio, Michigan, Illinois, Indiana, Kentucky, Wisconsin, Minnesota, Iowa
e.Southwest: Kansas, Missouri, Texas, Louisiana, Arkansas, Oklahoma, New Mexico
f.West: California, Arizona, Nevada, Utah, Colorado
g.Northwest: Washington, Oregon, Idaho, Montana, Wyoming, North Dakota, South Dakota, Nebraska

2.A faire cannot be considered again for ten years or until the section has been chosen twice.

3.A section cannot be considered for four years. (In other words in 2010 the Southwest section can be in the running but Texas Renaissance Festival cannot be in the running until 2016.)

4.On the slightest off chance that a faire should decide to close it's gates after it has been chosen the faire in 2nd place will get the RenDezvous.


Planning Committee

1.On May 1st, LadyJessica will post what faires are open for volunteers to come forward to say that they would like to plan a RenDezvous.

2.Everyone will have one month in which to announce that they’d like to plan a RenDezvous.

3.In order to be in the running for the RenDezvous the faire must have at least two people to plan the gathering.


Voting

1.On June 1st, LadyJessica will post which faires are in the running for the RenDezvous.

2.A members’ vote will only count if they were a member before June 1st of that year and have at least 25 posts.

3.Everyone will have one month in which to place his or her vote.

4.Each member has one vote and one vote only.

5.For that vote to count the member must make the vote themselves. You cannot ask someone to make it for you.

6.Please keep the voting thread to votes only.

7. Votes must be made in the thread. You can not Renmail your vote.


Campaigning

1.After we know which faires are in the running we ask that each person planning the gathering to write up a paragraph or two about why we should choose their faire and to give us general information about the faire; i.e. times, dates, prices, camping, etc.  You can do a write up as a group.

2.These paragraphs will be sent to LadyJessica who will post the paragraph along with who wrote it under one thread, which will remain locked.

3.If you have any general questions about what someone has said please Renmail that person and ask them.

4.There will be no why-my-faire-is-better-than-your-faire politics. If the Mods start to see these posts they will be deleted.

5.If you want to have more people vote for your faire you may post reminders within said faire’s section in the forum.
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Offline LadyJessica

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Re: Rules Disscussion and Ideas
« Reply #2 on: June 13, 2009, 10:50:19 AM »


These are the proposed new rules that I have posted in to the Mods:

The changes are in bold:


Rules and Regulations for faires, planning, voting, and campaigning.

In learning from past experiences of choosing a RenDezvous location the Moderators have decided to lay some ground rules for those members old and new to our RF.com family.

If you have questions, comments, or concerns about the rules please ask them here and the Mods will answer them as best we can.

If a rule needs changing then the mods will change it accordingly.

Faires

1.The U.S. will be split into 7 sections:

a.Northeast: Maine, New Hampshire, Vermont, Massachusetts, Connecticut, New York
b.East: Pennsylvania, Delaware, Maryland, New Jersey, Virginia, West Virginia
c.Southeast: Tennessee, North Carolina, South Carolina, Georgia, Florida, Alabama, Mississippi
d.Midwest: Ohio, Michigan, Illinois, Indiana, Kentucky, Wisconsin, Minnesota, Iowa
e.Southwest: Kansas, Missouri, Texas, Louisiana, Arkansas, Oklahoma, New Mexico
f.West: California, Arizona, Nevada, Utah, Colorado
g.Northwest: Washington, Oregon, Idaho, Montana, Wyoming, North Dakota, South Dakota, Nebraska

2.A faire cannot be considered again for ten years or until the section has been chosen twice.

3.A section cannot be considered for four years. (In other words in 2010 the Southwest section can be in the running but Texas Renaissance Festival cannot be in the running until 2016.)

4.On the slightest off chance that a faire should decide to close it's gates after it has been chosen the faire in 2nd place will get the RenDezvous.


Planning Committee

1.On May 1st, LadyJessica will post what faires are open for volunteers to come forward to say that they would like to plan a RenDezvous.

2.Everyone will have one month in which to announce that they’d like to plan a RenDezvous.

3.In order to be in the running for the RenDezvous the faire must have at least two people to plan the gathering.


Voting

1.On June 1st, LadyJessica will post which faires are in the running for the RenDezvous.

2.A members’ vote will only count if they were a member before June 1st of that year and have at least 25 posts. If your post count is below 25 posts your vote will still count if you have been a member for at least six months from the beginning of the voting thread.

3.Everyone will have one month in which to place his or her vote.

4.Each member has one vote and one vote only.

5.For that vote to count the member must make the vote themselves. You cannot ask someone to make it for you.

6.Please keep the voting thread to votes only.

7. Votes must be made in the thread. You cannot Renmail your vote.


Campaigning


1.After we know which faires are in the running we ask that each person planning the gathering to write up a paragraph or two about why we should choose their faire and to give us general information about the faire; i.e. times, dates, prices, camping, etc.  You can do a write up as a group.

2.These paragraphs will be sent to LadyJessica who will post the paragraph along with who wrote it under one thread, which will remain locked.

3.If you have any general questions about what someone has said please Renmail that person and ask them.

4.There will be NO why-my-faire-is-better-than-your-faire politics. If the Mods start to see these posts they will be deleted.

5.If you want to have more people vote for your faire you may post reminders to go and vote within said faire’s section in the forum.  i.e. You can post “Go Vote” threads in the South section if one of those faires are in the running.  You cannot post  “Go Vote for XYZ Faire” threads.

6.You cannot Renmail people asking for their vote.
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Offline *Teach*

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Re: Rules Disscussion and Ideas
« Reply #3 on: June 13, 2009, 12:30:27 PM »
I don't like the posting the vote rule.
If my vote must be made public then I shall refrain from voting. A secret ballot allows people to vote for what they truly wish.
I have friends from every faire on the list, some very close, and I do not want to upset any of them by voting "against" their faire.
For example:
Scarby is one of my two home faires, if I vote for Scarby then I vote against my very good friends the Bayou Scoundrels.
The Bayou Scoundrels are some of my dearest friends, if I vote for LARF then I am voting against my friends at Scarby.
This is my own personal conundrum. I should not have to share my thoughts on this with anyone but myself. I should not have to post in public which faire I am voting for because that is my own private choice.

On the other side of things, I very much like the eligibility rules as posted. Given the option of a number of posts or tenure makes much sense to me.

I don't understand why we cannot post things like "Go vote for XRF" in our own faires threads though. It's not like someone is automatically going to do it just because someone else said to. I also don't see it as pressuring or anything like that. It's just showing pride in your faire. If someone whose home faire is a different one is reading that, I wouldn't expect them to go vote because they are in it. I agree that you should not have a "My Faire is Better Than X faire" thread, but having a "pride" thread talking good about your faire seems to be a great option. The rules could be simple: 1- Only post about the faire the thread is in. 2- Visitors may ask questions about the faire in this thread. 3- Nothing negative may be posted regarding the faire, only brags and/or straight information. The reason why I think that is a good thread idea is that no one is ever going to write a paragraph (no matter how long) and cover EVER good thing about a faire. There are far to many things to mention for any one person to remember to write them all out. But in a brag thread, everyone who loves their faire may post their own wonderful thoughts and experiences about it. (Seriously, every faire's thread already has something along those lines anyways, this just makes it official for voting information)

I do agree with the no renmail rule on asking for votes. That is pressuring and spam (and spam is nasty).

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Offline Cobaltblu

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Re: Rules Disscussion and Ideas
« Reply #4 on: June 13, 2009, 12:33:21 PM »
Regarding the "cannot post asking people to vote for XYZ faire" there should obviously be an exception allowing such posts in that Faire's Specific Forum Area (I.E. in the forum area with that faire's name).

Regarding the "No why my faire is better than your faire" rule, there should also be an exception for such posts in the forum of the faire which the person thinks is better.  If people in faire X want to discuss why they like their faire better than faire Y they should be able to do it.  Besides if this rule is used then a lot of posts from all over the forum would need to be removed which describe why people thought one faire was better or worse than another.  If this rule was used it would chill any discussion comparing different faires.

Regarding no renmails asking for votes...in theory this sounds like a good idea however in practice any number of communications or discussions via renmail could be construed as violating the rule.  The moderators shouldn't moderate what people discuss in private communications.

I suggest having people renmail votes to two selected moderators and therefor no votes would be posted publicly in a vote thread.  This would assure anonymity.  The moderators could then count and compare the vote results.  This would remove any politics and everyone could vote however they liked in anonymity.

The 25 vote count requirement should remain because it represents the important principle that we want people who participate in the forums to be the ones who vote.

Regards,

CB
« Last Edit: June 13, 2009, 12:40:25 PM by Cobaltblu »
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Offline Lairde Guardn

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Re: Rules Disscussion and Ideas
« Reply #5 on: June 13, 2009, 01:09:01 PM »
1st Proposed rule change under "Faire"

No section that has already hosted a rendevous or is scheduled to host a rendevous will be considered again until all other sections have had a rendevous or a section that has not had a rendevous fails to propose a faire for selection. 

If for some reason we fail to get a proposed faire from an area that has not already hosted a rendevous, then the process will be open to all areas except the current and/or scheduled rendevous areas.

(this rule will ensure that each section of the country will get a fair shot at hosting the rendevous)

2nd Proposed rule change under "Faire"

A state within a section that has already held a rendevous, will not be eligible to run again until at least one other faire from another state in that section has hosted a rendevoux or if no other state from a section proposes to host a rendevous and the section is eligible, then the same state can propose a faire.   

(this rule will ensure that more states get a fair shot a hosting a rendevous)

I agree with the voting rule change of 25 posts or 6 months if under 25 posts.....it makes it fair for the quiet types that don't post and just lurk or find information on the forum.

Proposal for change to voting for Rendevous

I think that we could come up with a Voting Committee, to include mods and at least one representative from each area of the country.  Then create a group email address so that one email goes to every member of the committee.   Then members must email their vote to the one address, then the Committee will be able to count the votes and ensure that each has the same count based on the emails.

(this will ensure that votes are kept private and that there is a system of checks and balances)
« Last Edit: June 13, 2009, 03:17:30 PM by Lairde Guardn MCrack »
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Offline Aaroncois

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Re: Rules Disscussion and Ideas
« Reply #6 on: June 13, 2009, 01:16:27 PM »
In general, I like the proposed new rules.

I could support a change to vote via renmail rather than voting publicly if public votes were going to make some people uncomfortable.

I definitely agree with the prohibition against renmail spam for Rendezvous voting. I got some this season and didn't much care for it.

I think this rule is problematic as written:

Quote
i.e. You can post “Go Vote” threads in the South section if one of those faires are in the running.  You cannot post  “Go Vote for XYZ Faire” threads.

I can see where you wouldn't want to have multiple threads spamming a given faire's forum, but certainly there's going to be a thread in each candidate faire's forum where the proponents of that faire discuss the voting and their prospects. Some of these posts will show general renaissancefestival.com community spirit and some won't (ie. "We are soooooo kicking NY's arse."), but either way threads and posts will be made encouraging voting for each given faire in that faire's forum. I can't come up with an alternate wording that I like better just now, but I think it's too vague/restrictive as currently written.

Offline Marcos Charron

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Re: Rules Disscussion and Ideas
« Reply #7 on: June 13, 2009, 04:40:56 PM »
OK

Once more I am going to out on a limb here (most likely to get pushed off)

1) If we can't as a community vote, and vote fair, let a council or board make the choice

2) This place and the pastime and lifestyle it represents is about fun and having a good time, should we be endorsing or helping out a gathering that has even a hint of underhanded activity like shill votes?

3) A gathering like this could make or break a smaller faire, the voting has to be fair so that even the small faire get the same chance as the big ones.

4) Say screw it, do away with the idea of one a year, and let people rendevous where they want to, or can afford to, and then gather here and report on it. Next year, people can make their own choice.

Viscomte

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Offline Blue66669

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Re: Rules Disscussion and Ideas
« Reply #8 on: June 13, 2009, 05:01:59 PM »
I personally like the idea of not voting in the thread. I don't like my vote plastered for everyone to see. I wish there was a way to keep the poll honest. I really dug being able to see where everything stood!

I, however, DO NOT believe that there is any reason that a state shoud be excluded just because one of the faires has been hosted for a RenDezvous in the past. I mean, seriously, Texas is a large enough state that our two faires are at least a 4 hour drive away from each other. Hell, most people on the East Coast can get across their entire state in that time. Our two faires here are completely different cultures with a completely different group of RFers that support it. True, there is some crossover, but not as much as one would think.

If I'm going to be spending my money on a RenDezvous, I want the opportunity to choose it. I want to see the more well known faires, mostly because there's a lot of hype surrounding them that I just HAVE to see them for myself. A smaller faire sounds good, every once in awhile. But I want to see those faires that really give me more bang for my buck.

I'm sorry if our bid for hosting Scarborough has upset anyone. The rules stated that we could, and I know that a lot of people would like to see that faire. It sounded like a great idea, and there was a chance for us share our faire with our out of state friends. We haven't violated any of the rules that were posted, we haven't fought dirty, we haven't slammed any of the other faires (I personally can't wait to see AZRF). I'm getting the feeling that most of this drama stems from the fact that there is some animosity towards us for offering to host. We just want to throw a party LOL!!!!!
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Offline Sir Ironhead

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Re: Rules Disscussion and Ideas
« Reply #9 on: June 13, 2009, 06:47:07 PM »
My 2 pennies:  I think we got enough rules already, if we're not careful, there'll be so many rules no-one will want to get involved.

Secret vote?  We're not deciding national security issues here, I don't care if anyone knows how I voted.  Whattaya gonna do if i don't vote for your faire, sic the mafia on me?  Not worried, got my own witness protection program (if ya wanna know what it is, ren-mail me)  ;D

That being said, I only need to know 3 things:
1.  What are the nominees
2.  Where do I vote
3.  How do I vote (post, ren-mail, whatever)
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Offline Captain Jack Wolfe

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Re: Rules Disscussion and Ideas
« Reply #10 on: June 13, 2009, 06:55:02 PM »
I agree, there's really no need for a secret ballot in this case.  If you don't agree with the outcome, then you most likely won't go, simple enough.

And if I hear anyone bring up a "council of elders", or what have you, to decide for us one more time, I'm going to scream.  We're all adults and can think for ourselves, thank you very much.
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Offline Marcos Charron

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Re: Rules Disscussion and Ideas
« Reply #11 on: June 13, 2009, 07:00:20 PM »
I agree, there's really no need for a secret ballot in this case.  If you don't agree with the outcome, then you most likely won't go, simple enough.

And if I hear anyone bring up a "council of elders", or what have you, to decide for us one more time, I'm going to scream.  We're all adults and can think for ourselves, thank you very much.

Jack

Free exchange of thoughts, right?

Switch to decaf brother, we all have our own thoughts and opinions and getting knotted up over someone elses is just silly.

Viscomte
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Offline Welsh Wench

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Re: Rules Disscussion and Ideas
« Reply #12 on: June 13, 2009, 07:13:08 PM »
Whoa, gentlemen!  :D

This is going to be respectfully intended so please no one take offense.

I want to go to a faire where I KNOW the people who are hosting it.
Some who are hosting it really do not post out of their faire forum. While I understand familiarity with your own kind, I would like to go to a faire where I know the people and am friends with.

After all, while the faire counts for something, it is the people who make it.
And I voted for the faire where my friends will be.
« Last Edit: June 13, 2009, 07:21:58 PM by Welsh Wench »
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Offline Leyla

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Re: Rules Disscussion and Ideas
« Reply #13 on: June 13, 2009, 07:17:58 PM »
I liked the way it was done before. All of it. All the old rules. The old public voting.

I think it would be nice if there was a place for those who have volunteered to host to place an "advertisement" for their fair.  No insulting or comparing to other fairs simply, "this is what our faire has to offer and what you can expect from us as hosts" sort of thing. Lock the thread, don't allow replies or further campaigning. Sometimes it's hard to vote when you don't know much about the faires. I'd like a little extra info.

Offline Lairde Guardn

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Re: Rules Disscussion and Ideas
« Reply #14 on: June 13, 2009, 07:24:47 PM »
I am arguing my points as to the fairness of the situation.  Not to argue against Texas, although I can see where it appears I am.   If the next faire had been proposed in the Midwest where there had already been a rendevous, I would be arguing exactly the same point.  As a matter of fact, with the rules the way they are now, next year will see the midwest eligible again and we will still have areas that have not hosted an event.   I just want to see the rules be faire to each region of the country, and to be honest, I don't think that the southwest or midwest should even be eligible to host two rendevous within 5 years when we have three regions (two of which have proposed to host the event in 2010) that have not had one at all.  As a matter of fact, since the first vote, only one area of the country (the Northwest) has not proposed at least two faires to host rendevous over the varios years.

I also want to see a bang for my buck, but I don't want to travel to the southwest or midwest every 4 or years just because they have so many faires that are great and the votes to keep the the rendevous there, there are other regions that deserve the chance to host one.   I would like to see the rest of the country as well and see the differences to how they do things.  There are a lot of great faires out there and although I realize because of the economy that not everyone can get to them all.  Rendevous just by virtue of the name should make every attempt to be fair to all the rennie communities

If my proposed changes get voted down, I am fine with that also and will fully support the rules that come out of this.  At least it was an entire membership vote.

« Last Edit: June 13, 2009, 07:31:59 PM by Lairde Guardn MCrack »
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