Need new middle-class skirt (More questions, post #8)

[gem]

For years I've been using the same Simplicity peasant skirt pattern for all my skirts, but I've become increasingly less satisfied with the lack of "oomph" at the waistline/hips (and I can almost not believe I'm really saying that. The mundane clothing gods will never let me shop again.  Sigh.).  Anyway.  It's time for an upgrade to something cartridge-pleated.  BUT! I want to wear this (scandalously!) with my pink damask corset as outerwear sometimes... so it needs to be flatish in front.  Tigerlilly posted a beautiful linen middles gown in the Finished Projects thread a couple of months ago that looks just about exactly what I want (and I'm going to snag one of her photos):



Does anyone have suggestions for constructing such a skirt?  I have all the POF books, Tudor Tailor, and all the Margo Anderson patterns, so chances are pretty good I have what I need to make it, but I need some directing!

Gramercy!!

[Taffy Saltwater]

I like the flat front idea, too, and should be easy enough w/the combination of knife & box pleats.  Thanks for sharing the pic.

[Adriana Rose]

Is the simplicity pattern you use the one that has like 4 variations of the skirt? If its the same one that i use it has the same kinda front panel that Tigerlilies has, and i add 3 or 4 extra side panels..

[Margaret]

What I usually do is this:

1.  Fold the top edge of the skirt over 3" or sew on your marking fabric for your cartridge pleats.

2.  Find the Center Front of the skirt and measure 5" on either side of CF.  YMMV depending on how
     much of a flat front you wish.

3.  Start your cartridge pleating lines at that 5" mark and run them back to the Center Back of skirt.
     Or, if you prefer, start at CB and run the pleating lines along the skirt, stopping 5" before the CF.

4.  Attatch the pleats to the skirt and hand stitch the flat front section to the bottom of the
     waistband.

Hope this helps.

[Cilean]

Okay Gem,

So you know I tend towards more H/A than fantasy, so I have been looking at the Fete at Bermondsey as it has diverse Gentry together.  So you can look at this lovely piece it is the Fete at Bermondsey it is from the 1560's to 1570's and has many many classes merging together:



People to check out:

#1. Woman on the right in a blue Payre of Bodyes with a pinkish skirt and an apron on,  Extreme Costuming has an example of this with the skirt as well



This is her Payre of Bodyes with sleeves, I hope she will have her pattern one day, keeping fingers crossed.

And this one is her Gentry Gown


#2. On the right as well there are a couple of 'English Fitted Gowns' what others have termed as 'Flemish' Gowns, and directly to the Salmon lady you will note a black EFG as well.

Here is a pic of the Kirtle



And another of kirtle with different sleeves and overgown


Or you can look at this Pattern from Reconstructing History



#3. In the middle you will see I am going to say lower gentry as a Nurse to a baby wrapped in a red blanket with black trim and if you can see her outfit it is pretty awesome.

Like this one




So? If you want your skirts to really have some moxie? You can pad the pleats, I tried this after listening to several people mention this over and over again, I used fleece instead of wool as I did not have any wool at the time to use, and it did work very well I put in 4 layers of fleece at 6 inches wide and when I cartridge pleated it made the fabric look fuller and stick out nicely.

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To look like this


I hope this helps!

Cilean

[gem]

Cilean!!

1. Were there supposed to be two pictures of your pleats? I'm having trouble picturing exactly what you do with the wool/fleece.

2. Oh, sigh... now you're making me wonder if I need to make sleeves for my pink corset (I have plenty of the damask left to do it, too.)!

3. Thank you for those images--the ones from Extreme Costuming are exactly the sort of thing I had in mind.  I was thinking I would have to wear a bumroll, but now I'm wondering if padding alone will be enough.  The fabric I'm using is a crisp polished cotton--so a little bit of stiffness but not a lot of body.

Margaret--thank you!  I think once I actually sit down to do this, your instructions will make perfect sense. And it would not have occurred to me to start in the center front and work around to the back!

So now I'm wondering which direction I should go in:
1. Use the pattern I'm currently using, and pleat the panels (which are gored) to the waistband instead of gathering them.  OR...
2. Use either straight panels or just a length of fabric pleated to the WB.

Anyone have thoughts either way?

[Cilean]

[size 11pt]


I know I am with you on the whole sleeves for my Payre of Bodyes!!! In fact I am trying to get some people together to sew during this next year from the skin out project, so that by the end of the year we would all have outfits complete, or as complete as you can make them!

I have asked the Extreme Laurel if she could send me her information on her Payre of Bodyes and I some awesome fabric (duh) and I am hoping some people will join in on this fun thing.

Cilean

[/size]

[Don Giovanni de' Medici]

Ciao Ragazzi,

I am afraid that I have nothing to contribute to the search, however, I would again like to commend you for creating something in the middle class.  So often at shows I see a drastic jump from peasant to nobility and rarely see any characters truly middle class and with the correct style of garb for such a character.  By this time, the middle class was rapidly becoming the dominant class and already was in some areas and this fact I think that most shows forget.  I love that you are bringing this class to it full potential and helping to create a more realistic world in production. Gracie e bouna fotuna!

[gem]

Gramercy, Visconte!  I've really fallen in love with H/A middle class dress; the more research I do, the more I prefer it to the nobles'.

So... I have a couple more questions, if anyone wishes to weigh in.

--Cilean suggested padding the pleats with wool or fleece.  Can anyone go into more detail about how that's done?

--I'm trying to decide between using my current skirt pattern (gored panels) and pleating them instead of gathering them to the waistband *OR* just cutting rectangular panels and pleating those to the w/b.  I have 4 yards of material to work with.  Is there a compelling reason to do one over the other?  Or is there a third option (some combination of straight and gored panels)?

Gramercy!! 

[Genievea Brookstone]

--Cilean suggested padding the pleats with wool or fleece.  Can anyone go into more detail about how that's done?

I believe this is done by adding a strip of fleece or felt onto the skirt where you are going to do your pleating.  So if you were going to fold over the top 3 inches for your pleating you would cut  3 in piece in the wool/fleece the same length and baste it onto the fold or sandwich in between the fold and pleat.

[tigerlilly]

Wow!  I'm glad you liked the skirt, Gem.  it was the result of a bit of trial and error.  No one wants more "oomph" added to their tummy!  lemme see if I can remember exactly what i did....

The skirt has about a 30-inch waistband and it's made from slightly less than 4 yards of fabric.  I used one biiiiiig rectangle, it's not gored.  The skirt opens on the left side, closes with a big hook and eye, and the waistband is safety-pinned to the bodice to keep it in place and prevent my chemise poofing out.  The waistband is about 2 inches wide.

First I took a 4-yard by 4-inch strip of gingham and sewed that to the top of the skirt to use as a pleating guide (still a big rectangle at this point, the side seam didn't get sewn until last).  Then I folded the marking fabric and the top of the skirt down to the inside so that there's about a half-inch border of skirt fabric at the very top (you can see this in the pictures) and pressed it to mark the fold.  Then I took a 4-yard by 6-inch strip of craft felt and sandwiched it in between the marking fabric and skirt fabric so that the top edge of the felt butted up against the inside of the fold, and machine-basted it in place. 

Now comes the fun part...I put Ladyhawke in the DVD player and put a really long piece of upholstery thread in a needle and made one-inch stitches all along the top of the skirt, including the front panel.  I think I did three rows, but took the third one out later to make the pleats lie right.  You''ll have to experiment and do some math to see what size pleats looks best with your fabric and how much fabric is taken up per inch of pleats. 

After all the stitches were in, I started pulling the threads to get the pleats where I wanted them.  I had a big section of pleats going from where the left side seam would be, all the way around the back and to the front where I wanted the box-pleat panel to start, and then another smaller section of pleats starting where I wanted the box-pleat section to end and going over to the front of the left side seam.  I clipped the threads in the middle of where the box-pleat section would be and secured the cartridge pleats on either side.  Then I put a box pleat in the center of the front section and put knife pleats to either side to take up the slack and make the skirt fit the length of the waistband.  Then I sewed up the side seam and hand-sewed the pleats to the bottom edge of the  waistband, using the technique that a bunch of other people have described in the cartridge-pleating thread.  I tried the thing on and realized it was still way too poofy in the front, and solved that problem by clipping the felt out from under the front section.

The felt gave some "oomph" to the pleats, but not a whole awful lot so in the pictures I'm wearing it over a small bumroll and farthingale.  here are a couple pictures of the inside of the skirt.

I hope that helps!

[Artemisia]

::bookmarks thread for tigerlilly's excellent tutorial::