Weekend Thoughts

[Storm]

Andy....

A lot of the leather and wood mugs you see people with out there will hold 2 drinks. If you ask servers to fill your mug they will usually do so. They will pour 2 glasses or 2 bottles into your mug. When you walk away then you are only walking away with 1 drink so they know you aren't handing it off to someone. Of course, it does cost twice as much to do this, but it will usually prevent you from running out in the middle of a show and needing more!....LoL

[William_MacKean]

Asking around, this weekend's sales were down again from last year.  I know my booths are down 15% from last year's numbers.  Picking up the third booth puts me at par from last year, maybe a tad ahead.  Still, I feel for the crafters who use the faire for income and livlihood.

I cannot help but wonder if the ownership made an error in trying to target families, instead of the 21-28 year old singles with high discretionary income.  Families just don't have that.  Once you have a child, you are pretty much on a permanent budget.  The moment a recession hits, parents get nervous and lock up all discretionary spending, like festivals, in favor of parks, zoos, and walks around a lake.  I think the trends show me to be correct.

[LadyFae]

I cannot help but wonder if the ownership made an error in trying to target families, instead of the 21-28 year old singles with high discretionary income.  Families just don't have that.  Once you have a child, you are pretty much on a permanent budget.  The moment a recession hits, parents get nervous and lock up all discretionary spending, like festivals, in favor of parks, zoos, and walks around a lake.  I think the trends show me to be correct.

I can't disagree with you there!  I have three little budget hogs on my hands, but I still LOVE to take them to Fest!

[Hatter]

I have been saying for years that the move to a family show is a poor financial decision.  Four tipsy 20 somethings are going to spend more in every venue than a cash strapped family of four. 

[Noble Dreg]

...I cannot help but wonder if the ownership made an error in trying to target families, instead of the 21-28 year old singles with high discretionary income...Once you have a child, you are pretty much on a permanent budget.  The moment a recession hits, parents get nervous and lock up all discretionary spending, like festivals, in favor of parks, zoos, and walks around a lake.  I think the trends show me to be correct.

Hogwash!  First, the fest targets all the markets you mentioned.  Twig the faerie...Ales and Tales...Home-brew competitions...Longbow contests, Weddings, Children's realm, etc.

Second, I too know booth owners, many who sell to the "nervous parents on a permanent budget"...they're sales are up this year compared to last.

I so tire of the "parents don't spend money on their kids, let's dump them" BS so common here lately.  "Kids suck", let's discourage them from coming...seems to be a common theme lately.  I dumped hundreds in one day on my two kids and their two friends, I know of other parents who did the same.

Look around at the numerous booths that sell wooden swords, puzzle benches, fairytale hats and magic wands...Twig alone drags 'em in by the hundreds, perhaps thousands (compare her FB page to that of any other "festie" page)!

21 to 28 year olds with "high discretionary income"?  Seriously?  Not the ones I know.

Everyone's hurting in this economy including the marketing budget of most companies.  You may not have kids, you may not want them at fest.  But I do and I tire of the anti-child attitude many here and at Fest have taken.  "Parks, zoos, and walks around a lake", are you kidding me?  Been to a twins game lately?  The stands are filled with families dropping big buck so their child can sit with them to enjoy the game.

Your market may not be to those under 21 but no need to disparage those that do.

[LadyFae]

...I cannot help but wonder if the ownership made an error in trying to target families, instead of the 21-28 year old singles with high discretionary income...Once you have a child, you are pretty much on a permanent budget.  The moment a recession hits, parents get nervous and lock up all discretionary spending, like festivals, in favor of parks, zoos, and walks around a lake.  I think the trends show me to be correct.

Hogwash!  First, the fest targets all the markets you mentioned.  Twig the faerie...Ales and Tales...Home-brew competitions...Longbow contests, Weddings, Children's realm, etc.

Second, I too know booth owners, many who sell to the "nervous parents on a permanent budget"...they're sales are up this year compared to last.

I so tire of the "parents don't spend money on their kids, let's dump them" BS so common here lately.  "Kids suck", let's discourage them from coming...seems to be a common theme lately.  I dumped hundreds in one day on my two kids and their two friends, I know of other parents who did the same.

Look around at the numerous booths that sell wooden swords, puzzle benches, fairytale hats and magic wands...Twig alone drags 'em in by the hundreds, perhaps thousands (compare her FB page to that of any other "festie" page)!

21 to 28 year olds with "high discretionary income"?  Seriously?  Not the ones I know.

Everyone's hurting in this economy including the marketing budget of most companies.  You may not have kids, you may not want them at fest.  But I do and I tire of the anti-child attitude many here and at Fest have taken.  "Parks, zoos, and walks around a lake", are you kidding me?  Been to a twins game lately?  The stands are filled with families dropping big buck so their child can sit with them to enjoy the game.

Your market may not be to those under 21 but no need to disparage those that do.

LOVE this!

[saphire_glade]

I agree with Noble Dreg:

There are sooo many families that come out there right with the other groups. I mean you can't take your kids to the homebrew competetion, but I see plenty of parents being led around by their kids, buying a ton of things. And if you can bring your kids more and more people are willing to make it like there vacation for the year. And I know they are not the stingiest customers ever. I made more tips this weekend than I have made total in past years.

Now are they the ones going to be buying the super expensive weaponry and armor and thousand dollar outfits? probably not, but there will more than likely be a teenager who will see one want it, and when they have the money come back for it, maybe not the next weekend or the next year, but remember... the kids now, will be your customers later you just have to keep their interest so that one day they will be that 21-28 and hopefully have that income to spend.

But being a newly married, out of college and paying off that 4 years of private catholic college and the 2 years of the not privated university education, I guarentee you that if I wasn't there to work I certainly couldn't afford to be out there, let alone drop any money on buying things. A lot of my friends are the same way,. we look we love, we haven't a dime to spare. In the recession they are taking those with experience over us with enthusaism. I get lucky... I am federal employee... I am assured pay, just not that much. In the future it will be better

[groomporter]

To put it in a little perspective, the festival has been talking about cleaning up the acts to make them more "family friendly" in recent years, (My understanding is that it may have been in reaction to some specific jokes/incidents ) Last year Vilification Tennis was wondering how this was going to effect them (Haven't asked how/if they have changed things) but we do still have a couple shows in the program listed as "loose cannons" that are not recommended for children.

In any case, some Renfairs have been focused a bit too much on the party aspect and the "3 B's" (Boobs, boots and beer) in recent years, and the pendulum has swung a bit the other way. What they really have to remember is that they need to market to as wide an audience as possible. Families help keep attendance high and help keep the food/soft drink/toy and cheap souvenirs volume up. Younger legal adults help the beer and wine sales more as well as certain other crafts and acts.

But they also need to market to the arts community better to support the fine arts crafters on site, and I was happy to see a "featured crafters" page on the website, since the artisan aspect has been a minor part of advertising for a number of years and MNRF used to have a good reputation for hand made art. Another problem is that fest seems to be looked down upon by the local live theater community whereas I would think some form of outreach could be mutually beneficial.

[Noble Dreg]

...But they also need to market to the arts community better to support the fine arts crafters on site, and I was happy to see a "featured crafters" page on the website, since the artisan aspect has been a minor part of advertising for a number of years and MNRF used to have a good reputation for hand made art. Another problem is that fest seems to be looked down upon by the local live theater community whereas I would think some form of outreach could be mutually beneficial.

Here hear!

[Lady Nicolette]

Thanks to both Dreg and Groomporter.  Personally each end of the pendulum (totally G-rated family entertainment and/or bawdiness just for the sake of it) tend to not be my particular thing, but the Faires have to appeal to as many people as possible, just as much as regular fairs or theme parks do in order to survive and even better, turn a profit so we can all keep enjoying whatever it is that we like to do best there.

Modified to add:

And indeed, attention to the artisans/crafters and also the real theatre (and music) aspects of the Faire are much welcomed and have been lacking more over recent years...

[William_MacKean]

I sell booze.  My market is the 21-28 year olds with discretionary income.  I talk to them all day every day.  I hear their lamenting of the taming of the faire a LOT more than I hear them praising it for the families.  (A thought echoed by most participants with more than 5 years at the faire.)  If I sold fairy wings, I would think differently.  But I do not, so I protect, defend and boost my target market.  This does not mean that I am putting other markets down.  I am not.  Let's boost our own target markets and the totality of the market will increase for mutual benefit.  (I jest, but drunks make kids that eventually buy fairy wings.)  But seriously.  One angry mother sends a letter and the whole show has to change?  C'mon.  Some perspective is needed, here.

On one hand, the faire is trying to clean up all the acts and focus on period entertainment.  On the other hand, they now have a sports bar to watch TV at and have added 3-4 more alcohol booths.  They tell Vil to calm down, but the Smoker cuts lose.  All with management approval.

I think the time is long past for 'White Weekends' and 'Blue Weekends.'  I think we also need to take a realistic look at 5-Finger Friday.  Schools are cutting back their budgets.  I don't think many take advantage like was hoped.

[Prince Thomas]

I think the time is long past for 'White Weekends' and 'Blue Weekends.'  I think we also need to take a realistic look at 5-Finger Friday.  Schools are cutting back their budgets.  I don't think many take advantage like was hoped.

I'm still relativly new to Ren Fest, what do these terms mean?

For the past 4 years, I've been doing Rendezvous (1800 time era) and have noticed a decline there also. You can blame it on a down economy, and you can blame it on the way managment wants to handle things. Like always, you can blame it on the weather some weekends. What I have noticed, is that we are participating in an art that is dieing. 5 years ago, my wife said, "Let's go to Ren Fest", my first thought was, "get dressed up in goofy clothes and prance around like fairies..... nope!". And that is the mindset of MOST people outside of the fest! The reason why people walk through the gate is BECAUSE of the kids, or wives that want to look at stuff. Your 18-21 group only shows up to "be themselves" and not be judged for dressing emo or goth because, let's face it, we accept it. The main focus we should be looking at, is we are all here for fun, we can all walk away if we don't like what we here, and if people can spend money, they will. Also, the more firends you have a fest, the funner it is... so bring a friend... who knows, they might just become a regular!!

<3

[saphire_glade]

@ William: Even I don't know what the Blue and White weekends are... but 5-Finger friday is called Festival friday by the management. It is a day where schools are encouraged to send buses full of kids to the festival, they put on some special programs for them and in general let them have the run of the festival. It is called 5-Finger friday because that is when a lot of shop merchandise dissappears in the 5 fingers of the kids running around.


Now on the note of complaint letters, if any of you are patrons out there and were bothered by the massive attack of the minnesota state bird *the Mosquito* I would encourage you to send a letter. They pass around diseases and in general make for an unhappy time. If they get enough letters about it, MAYBE NEXT YEAR THEY WILL DECIDE THEY AREN'T TO CHEAP TO SPARY FOR THEM!!!!!! *at least rumor among cast says they didn't bother to, as it was "too expensive"

If they need something to fix lets start with the bug population cause you know what that is bad for all targeted audiances, as I know no one who likes being eaten alive.

[Kiss-me-Kate]

Well said Dreg.    I know we were discussing this very topic of kids this weekend.  If I gave you the impression that I was family bashing, I apologize.   I must clarify that I hate naughty/misbehaving kids.  (Not that mine is an angel...)Like the one the clocked me in the face with my own whip this weekend. 

That said, I have a 14 kid, and we have been attending for seven years together.  Fest is our happy place.

If we weren't participants; be it on "cast" or, as a sales person selling shoes at Willing Soles, *shameless plug* I would only be able to attend once or twice per season.  It would be my staycation too.
I save all year for Twig and MNRF to buy a few shinys and support my local artisans and musical acts.    

I also have a 20 year old, and let me tell ya, he has NO discretionary income.  He probably won't for a few years,being a starving college student, and then he will have the lovely loans to pay back.   You live in Disneyland if you think otherwise.  Most people in their twenties are broke.

As for the family friendly, Vil Ten can not tell pedophile jokes, and they can't say penis, vagina, or the F word.   Too many complaints.   If you want the super raunchy jokes, attend their shows at the BLB.  *another shameless plug -for my kid*

I personally have attended Fest for 25+ years, and it is my experience that we can't make everyone happy.  

[andy]

I don't post on here a lot, but I do have a passion for the MNRF. My family has been attending as playtrons for the past 7 years. Like Kiss-me-Kate, fest is one of the things we can all do and enjoy together. One of the things we like most about the MNRF as opposed to other faires is that "anything goes" at the MNRF, whereas other faires are more traditional, like frowning upon anyone that wears purple other than royalty (my wife has a purple dress and nobody at the MNRF has ever said anything to her). If someone wants to dress in goth, so be it. There is something everyone. After 40 years, I would assume that most people know this about the MNRF. People that are easily offended should not go and then complain about the things they are easily offended by, just as those that enjoy being offended should not complain about things that are family oriented. The fest is large enough to accommodate both crowds.