News:

Welcome to the Renaissancefestival.com Forums!  Please post an introduction after signing up!

For an updated map of Ren Fests check out The Ren List at http://www.therenlist.com!

The Chat server is now running again, just select chat on the menu!

Main Menu

non-Scottish wearing kilts

Started by Ser Niall, June 10, 2011, 12:26:12 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Ser Niall

As far as I know, I have no Scottish blood in me (although I have some Irish).  In an effort to diversify my ren fest outfits, and to get something different to wear, I'm considering belted plaid.  Would it be strange to do this given no Scottish ancestry in my background?  Are there any other non-Scots out there who wear kilts to the ren fest?

I know the tartans are specific to family names, but do vendors create "generic" or non-family specific tartans?
If more of us valued food and cheer and song above hoarded gold, it would be a merrier world.

Rogue Hidesmith

#1
I promise that you can wear a kilt regardless of your ancestry. I've seen vendors selling kilts made from nondescript plaids, sometimes referred to as "clan MacPicnic". Only the pedantic really care. Just go with whatever you like and you're comfortable in.

For instance, I wear a Clan Mackenzie tartan and I'm as scottish as kung pow chicken.
If you can do a halfassed job of anything, you're a one-eyed man in a kingdom of the blind. - Kurt Vonnegut
IBRSC #1603

Francisco Paula

There is always the Nightwatch which any clan can wear. They also have tartans out there for branches of the military and some states have there own tartan as well.


Ser Niall

Thanks for the replies, and the tartan ideas.  Did a google search and found this for the state of Michigan: http://www.tartansauthority.com/tartan-ferret/display/3473/michigan-state-of-district
If more of us valued food and cheer and song above hoarded gold, it would be a merrier world.

Rogue Hidesmith

That's actually a very snazzy Tartan :) I like it!
If you can do a halfassed job of anything, you're a one-eyed man in a kingdom of the blind. - Kurt Vonnegut
IBRSC #1603

Merlin the Elder

Even though my Celtic ties are mostly of the eastern European variety (before they settled in western Europe), I do have a Scotty-in-the-woodpile. I can wear the tartan of Clan Hamilton, should I choose to.
Living life in the slow lane
ROoL #116; the Jack of Daniels; AARP #7; SS# 000-00-0013
I've upped my standards. Now, up yours.
...and may all your babies be born naked...

Kruzar

There is nothing wrong with wearing a kilt no matter what your ancestry.  I currently wear a Kommando Kilt as part of my ren faire garb, and although it is not historically accurate it is very comfortable.  I went with a straight forward black kilt, and it works well with all my other pieces that I have.  And since most of the fairs I attend are in warmer climates, it is much more comfortable than some of the pant options that I have.

Outside of this, there are several kilt fabrics out there that follow a more traditional tartan look, but have no familiy ties.  As mentioned, there are some state tartans out there, but I have even seen some that go as far as having a tartan to support your favorite sports team.

I'm personally in the market for my next couple of kilts. I am really looking at doing a traditional tartan that I can claim ancestry for, but I am also looking for a couple more fun options since I do wear my kilt outside of ren faires as well.
Gentleman Rogue

Ser Niall

Well, I'm glad I won't inadvertently bring the wrath of any true born Scots by wearing a kilt then :)

That Michigan tartan is indeed sharp.  It will probably be on the short list of plaids when I start putting the outfit together.
If more of us valued food and cheer and song above hoarded gold, it would be a merrier world.

Hatter

I'm of Scottish decent.  My mother's maiden name was Macdonald.  I think it is great for anyone to wear a kilt.  To me it is an honor that non Scots wish to identify with this noble heritage.  Just a side note... the Irish wore kilts too.  You can find Irish tartans on most tartan finder sites.

groomporter

There are dozens of tartans that are not associated with specific clans. There's a list here
http://www.scottishclansman.com/finder.html

Here's a list of U.S. state tartans with pictures
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._state_tartans

And for Renfair purposes it doesn't matter anyway. At the time, tartans were not assigned to specific clans, that is a Victorian misconception. So at a Renfair no one should question what tartan you wear, (at Scottish fairs people can occasionally get more snooty about it). Many of the current "clan tartans" were actually designed in the 1800's since some clans never had specific patterns/colors associated with their family.

In the Scottish reenactment group I was in we kind of discouraged people from wearing Royal Stewart since many people recognize that as being connected to the British royal family, but that was just for theatrical reasons we didn't want the audience to assume someone's persona had royal connections.

(I've done Scottish since before a Highlander was a TV cult)
When you die can you donate your body to pseudo-science?

Nighthawk

#10
First off, something that Groomporter has mentioned is that the clan tartan system is a Victorian period invention. Before that, tartans were regional, simply because the weavers used yarn that was dyed using the local resources. A tartan woven by the MacLeods of Skye would have looked very different from the tartan woven by the MacLoeds of Dunvegan, for example. It wasn't a "Hey!! Look at what clan I am!!" kind of thing; it was simple usage of local resources. So in reality, regional tartans, like a state tartan or the Isle of Skye district tartan, would be more historically accurate.

Second... Very few of us (and I mean VERY few of us) who are of Scots descent and who do carry the culture and traditions would bat an eye at a non-Scot wearing a kilt, or even wearing a kilt in our clan tartan. If you want to dump $600 into a MacLeod clan tartan kilt, knock yourself out!! I'm honestly flattered when someone not of my clan likes our tartan enough to spend that kind of cash on it. As to the kilt thing... You don't have to be a cowboy to wear jeans, do you? A kilt is not costume- it's clothing. How you wear it determines weather or not it's a costume.

Which brings me to point number three...

Third- While we don't care about non Scots wearing the kilt, and even encourage it, one thing a lot of us do get bothered by is someone wearing it incorrectly. (Like the guy I saw last year with nine yards of cloth wrapped around himself so tightly that he could barely walk! Kilts do in fact get pleated!) It is, in fact, a cultural icon that is deeply important to a lot of us- myself included. Give it the respect and dignity it deserves- do some research. Learn the correct ways to wear the kilt, both the great kilt and the little kilt, and the modern tailored kilt. That way, if someone does ask you a question or offered a critique, you'll be able to give an intelligent reply. I, for example, wear my kilts longer than most. The reason is that I wear them with a military rise, which means the waist of the kilt is 2 inches higher than the normal kilt. I'm a big SOB. I need the extra length when I sit; otherwise, sensitive things come in contact with hot things... and that's just not fun!

So with all this in mind, I am in an historical reenactment/living history group called the Renaissance Scots Living History Association. I can set you well on your way to looking the part. Feel free to shoot me a private message with any questions, and I'll run you over all the culturally correct accessories and such.

Was this answer long-winded enough? I sure hope so... because I will NOT be typing any more to it!!  ;D

Nighthawk

Quote from: groomporter on June 12, 2011, 01:04:04 PM


In the Scottish reenactment group I was in we kind of discouraged people from wearing Royal Stewart since many people recognize that as being connected to the British royal family, but that was just for theatrical reasons we didn't want the audience to assume someone's persona had royal connections.

(I've done Scottish since before a Highlander was a TV cult)

Like my avatar?  8)

groomporter

Yup nice targe!

The mention of people wearing kilts wrong reminds me we caught several newbies last season at MNRF and a 18th century event who were wearing their "modern" kilts backwards with the pleats across the front. We also occasionally see guys wearing great kilts that hang down to mid-calf and they often get teased that they are either bashful about wearing a kilt or bragging about their size... I don't menton this to be catty, but to help others avoid getting catty comments.

Bag pipe bands, and from what I've seen in pictures of modern Scottish regiments, often wear kilts that cover the knee, but for civilian wear, to the top of the knee cap is suposed to be acceptable. There was a thread on Xmarksthescot ( http://www.xmarksthescot.com/forum/f100/traditional-kilt-length-11911/ ) that suggests that Americans tend to wear their kilts slightly longer.

A while ago I posted a thread with some tips for new kilt wearers
http://www.renaissancefestival.com/forums/index.php?topic=687.0
When you die can you donate your body to pseudo-science?

groomporter

Well you don't have to even wear a kilt to be Scottish -I've said more than once who says plaid pants aren't sexy ;-)
When you die can you donate your body to pseudo-science?

Nighthawk

#14
Quote from: groomporter on June 12, 2011, 07:44:25 PM
Yup nice targe!

The mention of people wearing kilts wrong reminds me we caught several newbies last season at MNRF and a 18th century event who were wearing their "modern" kilts backwards with the pleats across the front. We also occasionally see guys wearing great kilts that hang down to mid-calf and they often get teased that they are either bashful about wearing a kilt or bragging about their size... I don't menton this to be catty, but to help others avoid getting catty comments.

Bag pipe bands, and from what I've seen in pictures of modern Scottish regiments, often wear kilts that cover the knee, but for civilian wear, to the top of the knee cap is suposed to be acceptable. There was a thread on Xmarksthescot ( http://www.xmarksthescot.com/forum/f100/traditional-kilt-length-11911/ ) that suggests that Americans tend to wear their kilts slightly longer.

A while ago I posted a thread with some tips for new kilt wearers
http://www.renaissancefestival.com/forums/index.php?topic=687.0

I have more than once given pleating/wrapping demos on the jousting field at the Colorado Ren Fest...
Quote from: groomporter on June 12, 2011, 08:10:47 PM
Well you don't have to even wear a kilt to be Scottish -I've said more than once who says plaid pants aren't sexy ;-)


Ah! Truis! I personally prefer a nice great kilt for warmth, but you can't beat truis for convenience!  ;D I like those- they're unusual. They look a lot like the diced hose of the 1800's. Where did you get them?