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Author Topic: curious about certain rules stated on website  (Read 6596 times)

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Offline BLAKDUKE

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curious about certain rules stated on website
« on: March 20, 2009, 01:37:07 PM »
"Costumes: Patrons can attend in costume. Costumed patrons are not allowed to interact with patrons on a character level."

I saw the above on the KCRF website.   If this is not true and/or not enforced then it should be removed.  If it is true and/or enforced then it just gives me another reason not to attend this faire.   I cannot imagine going to a faire and not playing with patrons.  That is half the fun.
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Offline Dinobabe

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Re: curious about certain rules stated on website
« Reply #1 on: March 20, 2009, 03:21:41 PM »
I think they mean in the sense that makes the patron think you are a part of the faire.  It's just a cover their butts statement.  ;) I wouldn't read anything into it.  ;D
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Offline kcdcchef

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Re: curious about certain rules stated on website
« Reply #2 on: March 22, 2009, 08:24:15 PM »
"Costumes: Patrons can attend in costume. Costumed patrons are not allowed to interact with patrons on a character level."

I saw the above on the KCRF website.   If this is not true and/or not enforced then it should be removed.  If it is true and/or enforced then it just gives me another reason not to attend this faire.   I cannot imagine going to a faire and not playing with patrons.  That is half the fun.

try and remember, the faire, like any ren faire, is paying costumed characters to entertain paying guests. by being a paying guest, and interacting with a character like you are part of the show, you can detract from that costumed character interacting with many other patrons. i used to wear garb at kcrf, and, when you start talking to the people, who, are playing a part, you do engage them for a while without them realizing it. and you also give off the impression you are a paid employee or a representative of the kansas city renaissance festival. and remember, you are not. other patrons may think things you say and do represent the festival and its management, and again, they dont. so, it makes perfect sense on a whole variety of levels.

when i used to attend kcrf in garb, last time i did so was 2004, they never had any issue with you saying a quick "fair thee well" or a simple "good morrow" to the mayor, the queen, madame red, the executioner, etc. it is when you start to become part of the revelry and act right there in the lane, and then the many other patrons have no idea who is who. good for you, perhaps, but good for the others? yes and no. and that is why the kcrf ( most faires, actually ) do this. they have to protect the integrity of the roles they spend a lot of time and money to prepare their employees for. at the end of the day, people forget that renaissance faires are a business. it is hard to remember that these things are businesses. so many people ( particularly at kcrf, sadly ) get caught up in the moment, and forget that if you owned a business, how would you run it? probably the same.

Offline TKM

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Re: curious about certain rules stated on website
« Reply #3 on: March 22, 2009, 11:05:56 PM »
"another reason not to attend" you say? What reasons could you possibly already have?

anyway, i never go without my garb, and honestly, i'm sure most patrons think i work there. i act and mingle amongst patrons and performers alike without a second thought on that rule every day i'm there. It's just part of the fun. Just keep in mind that to every patron who thinks you're a performer, you represent KCRF's good name. I'd hate for a few rude costumed patrons to spark complains about the cast and make the KCRF staff crack down on patron interaction.

Offline BLAKDUKE

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Re: curious about certain rules stated on website
« Reply #4 on: March 23, 2009, 08:13:57 AM »
"another reason not to attend" you say? What reasons could you possibly already have?

Reason???????  A  "STRICT" no weapons policy and from what I have been told(though, admittedly never experienced) my walking staff would be considered a weapon.  And believe me I have heard all of the excuse, the drunk, the odd incident, etc. etc.   As to what both of you have said, I do not agree.  In 26 years of faire going, I treat every faire as my home faire and conduct myself accordingly.  Maybe, as you say others do not, but I would like to think that, people in general, should be given the benefit of the doubt.   I for one have NEVER seen or heard of the situation you suggest, even with the most drunken playtron.   I have engaged many a patron in conversation beyond a mere "Good day unto thee" or "Faire thee well".  I am also very quick to say that I am not a part of the faire and am only visiting.  I would humbly suggest you rethink this policy.  If you are so afraid of a bad scene then maybe you should rethink your purpose in this business.  How would it sound if when asked a question, I were to tell the poor hapless patron that "I cannot talk to you because I am not on staff".  If I were that patron I would turn around,  head for the gate, and ask for my money back.     As to (getting caught up in the moment, and forget that if you owned a business, how would you run it? probably the same.)  Not bloody likely.  I have been to many a faire and I have never run into the situation that you speak, maybe it is particular to KCRF, I don't know.  I know that some of the faires that I have run into if you said so much as a "Good Day" to one of the performers they would be stuck for an answer, because it was not part of their preconstructed scenario of lines.    At the faires that I perform at(2) we are absolutely are thrilled if costumed patron interact with our paying patrons.  It could be because we have so few lane volunteers to do that.  Maybe KCRF is blessed with many volunteer lane characters, if so great, but when I read that line in the website, as I said it just added another reason not to go to it.

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Offline kcdcchef

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Re: curious about certain rules stated on website
« Reply #5 on: March 23, 2009, 10:58:57 AM »


Reason???????  A  "STRICT" no weapons policy and from what I have been told(though, admittedly never experienced) my walking staff would be considered a weapon.  And believe me I have heard all of the excuse, the drunk, the odd incident, etc. etc. 



absolutely not true. many non paid members of faire have weapons, they are just peace tied. and many have walking staffs. not sure where you are getting your information.

.   As to what both of you have said, I do not agree.  In 26 years of faire going, I treat every faire as my home faire and conduct myself accordingly.



hey thats super. i have 31 years of faire going. all of those 31 at kansas city. also each season, i attend the pennsylvania and new york renaissance faires. sometimes the pittsburgh renaissance faire. in years past, have attended the mighigan faire, the minessotta faire, the texas faire, the maryland faire, the ohio faire, and the arizona faire. paid my renfaire dues. again, super on those 26 years.

   I for one have NEVER seen or heard of the situation you suggest, even with the most drunken playtron.   I have engaged many a patron in conversation beyond a mere "Good day unto thee" or "Faire thee well".  I am also very quick to say that I am not a part of the faire and am only visiting.  I would humbly suggest you rethink this policy.  If you are so afraid of a bad scene then maybe you should rethink your purpose in this business.  How would it sound if when asked a question, I were to tell the poor hapless patron that "I cannot talk to you because I am not on staff".  If I were that patron I would turn around,  head for the gate, and ask for my money back.      



and now you are being selfish and thinking of yourself. but since you choose to be self centered on the matter and focus on number one, lets do it that way. we'll make it all about you. so, say for example, you come in your cute little faire costume, and choose to interact with all the lane characters, in olde english accent. do you think the paid help spends more time interacting with you, or with the 20 or so nearby people wearing chiefs jerseys, nascar t-shirts, and abercrombie and fitch attire? why are you more important than the other patrons? please explain that to me?? when you interact with the lane characters and acts, on a character level, you tend to forget, you can engage them longer than the average patron, by a long shot, and in turn cut down on the amount of time the talent interacts with average folks. not good. and you should know that.

now as far as the scenario you choose to ignore, people that act like employees but are not, they need to speak to someone with faire management about planning a wedding there, or the rudeness of someone, or some dog that bit someone, something, who knows. they go ask you, because, you are busy interacting with the employees like you are one. what answers do you give them? "oh, i dont work for the shire of canterbury. many apologies governor!! please take thine self to the nearest information knob, they will gladly be of service to you........." yeah, some help you would be.

  If you are so afraid of a bad scene then maybe you should rethink your purpose in this business. 



save a LOT of money and open your own renn faire perhaps, it sounds like you are an expert on the matter. perhaps owning your own would be beneficial to us all. heck, it would give me another one to try maybe.

.  Maybe KCRF is blessed with many volunteer lane characters, if so great, but when I read that line in the website, as I said it just added another reason not to go to it.



hey, you gotta do what you gotta do, eh? the kansas city renaissance festival is one of the most attended in the country, while, being one of the smaller ones. the faire hovers between 180,000-200,000 annually, while, only holding court for 7 weekends, instead of 10-12 like some of the larger ones that attract less people. they are doing fine. you attending or not attending will not break the scales either way. i can tell you of all the faires i go to, well, there is a reason i still fly 2 hours to go each fall. it is an amazing faire, with many employees that have been around 20 years ++. And they are so good at what they do, i feel the need to keep coming back. a very authentic feel in kansas city. and a feeling of home. and i love it.

Offline BLAKDUKE

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Re: curious about certain rules stated on website
« Reply #6 on: March 23, 2009, 12:50:37 PM »
First let me apologize for the mis-post if anyone read it, I meant to hit the delete button.



 
Quote
absolutely not true. many non paid members of faire have weapons, they are just peace tied. and many have walking staffs. not sure where you are getting your information.

First I was not speaking of faire members and/or cast members, I was referring to Playtrons.    "not sure where I am getting my info from.   Try reading the pronouncements on the faire directory, which states it clearly "weapons are prohibited".  Now I will grant you that your current website does not say this, but a lot of people use the faire directory for info.  There were many discussions in the past in the old forum about prohibiting weapons 1 to 2 years ago in which I actively participated and I recall some one posting about Kansas City.   So if the info in the directory is not accurate someone should see to it that it is update


Quote
and now you are being selfish and thinking of yourself. but since you choose to be self centered on the matter and focus on number one, lets do it that way. we'll make it all about you. so, say for example, "you come in your cute little faire costume,"


Until that last little comment I was content to discuss with you on a fairly adult level but since you have reduced your self to the level of a jackass I will treat you as such.

Quote
now as far as the scenario you choose to ignore, people that act like employees but are not, they need to speak to someone with faire management about planning a wedding there, or the rudeness of someone, or some dog that bit someone, something, who knows. they go ask you, because, you are busy interacting with the employees like you are one. what answers do you give them? "oh, i dont work for the shire of canterbury. many apologies governor!! please take thine self to the nearest information knob, they will gladly be of service to you........." yeah, some help you would be.

Selfish?????  self-centered????  Now I will ask you SIRRAH  where is this coming from.   First of all you attribute qualities to me that I have never exhibited.  Whether I worked for the faire or not, if someone were to ask me any of that I would not respond in the fashion that you seem to think I would.  So I will ask you point blank,  in 31 years of faire going how in the world did you become such a mindless twit.

Now since this discussion has devolved to this level, I will choose to end it.   You have given me many more reasons not to attend KCRF.   I do not think myself so high as to beleive that KCRF management will quiver in their boots over that, just reflect that if you are any indication of what one might encounter there, that, in and of itself would be reason enough to stay away.   Oh  BTW if in 31 years of faire going you have not mastered old English any better than that Give it up.     I'm outta here!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
« Last Edit: March 23, 2009, 01:22:37 PM by BLAKDUKE »
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Offline kcdcchef

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Re: curious about certain rules stated on website
« Reply #7 on: March 23, 2009, 04:29:13 PM »


Selfish?????  self-centered????  Now I will ask you SIRRAH  where is this coming from.   First of all you attribute qualities to me that I have never exhibited.  Whether I worked for the faire or not, if someone were to ask me any of that I would not respond in the fashion that you seem to think I would.  So I will ask you point blank,  in 31 years of faire going how in the world did you become such a mindless twit.

 


you were arguing the point of the faire not being able to enforce rules that are indeed set in place to ensure that every patron, not just those in garb, have a good time. like it or not, you were arguing from the point of view of yourself. that by definition is self centered. check. mate.

real nice talking to you, you appear to be a very well mannered person. for a 4 year old.


Offline Count Adolfo

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Re: curious about certain rules stated on website
« Reply #8 on: March 24, 2009, 01:07:27 PM »
I, too, am very interested to hear an answer to this question.
Why?  Because after a full page, there has not really been an answer except the very first one, which seems to get to the crux of the issue...

Please, correct me if I am wrong, but the question was not about interacting with lane acts.  I believe the wording of the 'rule' is that costumed patrons (playtrons) are not allowed to interact with non-costumed patrons (patrons) on a character level.

I concur with BLAKDUKE... if this is anything more than lip service, it's a blatantly obvious indication that KCRF management should be in another line of business.  That's what playtrons do...

I have never been to the KCRF and chances are, I never will be.  I have been at Faire many years myself, though that really isn't relevant... and I am at several different Faires a year... though all that does is show I've seen how it's done in many places.  Such a rule, if it exists at KCRF, is likely only at KCRF... for it is not expressed anywhere else.  In fact, at my home Faire, I am often addressed BY the cast and occasionally we engage in conversation for the benefit of the patrons.  I believe if someone were playing a part and trying to pass oneself off as cast when one was not, then that individual should be dealt with.  Making such an absurd rule based on said offense would be, well, absurd.

Once again, I think that perhaps something happened there at one point that brought about this wording... but even if this is so, it seems ridiculous to 'punish' everyone for the sins of one... and it's really not a good business model.
Truth is, though... I also concur with BLAKDUKE about another point... this was a question posed to see if the information was accurate and really didn't warrant a personal attack in response.  I know that is not how things are done here on R/F.

Offline kcdcchef

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Re: curious about certain rules stated on website
« Reply #9 on: March 24, 2009, 01:29:57 PM »
my first response was not a personal attack. my last one was, in response to his. i stand by what i said. arguing this point is moot. the faire doesnt like it, it wont happen. i agree with kcrf on this one, sorry guys. nothing personal at all folks. just pointing out the obvious, why the rule is in place. to keep people from engaging with the talent on a personal level longer than the average patron. simple rule. i get it, you two dont. looks like TKM gets it too. so right now it is 2-2, correct?

Offline Count Adolfo

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Re: curious about certain rules stated on website
« Reply #10 on: March 24, 2009, 01:44:52 PM »

I do believe 'twas you who made a disparaging remark regarding a 'costume'.  Considering your stance, I can only assume you look down on those who wear garb to Faire, since you 'stopped' doing so years ago, yourself.  This means the personal attacks originated with you and I believe your motive is pretty clear.  What you are doing on a forum filled with such people, then, defies explanation... unless it is with the intention of starting discourse.

Secondly, it is also apparent that you are not interested in actually answering the originally posted question, nor did you even read it.  You keep making reference to 'engaging the lane acts' and, quite frankly, that was never the issue... so apparently you don't 'get it' at all.

Finally, I am not here to 'keep score' and it really doesn't matter to me if you perceive it to be the purpose of this forum... I shall not engage in such childishness.  Going forward, I wish no further interaction with you.  You've not answered the original question and you've displayed no desire to even acknowledge the actual question so your input has been nothing useful.  In addition, your statement of 'most Faires do this' is an inaccurate one and so any answer you gave at this point would have to be tempered with that knowledge.

Does anyone actually know the real truth about this matter?  It does seem sort of silly that if I were to attend KCRF with a non-costumed patron, I could not, by rule, interact with someone I am WITH because they have deemed that it is against Faire policy.

Offline TKM

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Re: curious about certain rules stated on website
« Reply #11 on: March 24, 2009, 03:00:40 PM »
This is all so rediculous. Let's stop the arguing right now. No one is attacking anyone. This issue is nothing to hold against KCRF or us who are loyal to it. The rule Blakduke read on the site is merely a beureaucratic weed puller-saver, so that when the issue DOES happen that a playtron offends a patron, KCRF isn't responsible. I assure you, ask any street performer or administrative person... hell, even the maestro, in person, and they will tell you they have nothing against it. Everyone in KC loves the faire experience and the fun that's there for everyone to have. But, if McDonalds has to actually tell people that their coffee is hot these days, then a faire should have to cover its own hide by claiming no responsibilty for the actions of playtrons.

And as for the walking staff issue, that's taking the rule out of context. I think KCRF may be a little more strict on blades than other faires, but anything wooden, no matter how heavy or resembling an actual weapon it may be, is fine.

Offline Count Adolfo

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Re: curious about certain rules stated on website
« Reply #12 on: March 24, 2009, 03:08:17 PM »
thanks, TKM
see, that's what I thought it was... just lip service
something they can fall back on if someone misrepresents them

I've been to many Faires and such wording isn't in their 'rules' and I think it's because it's a rare instance... at best... so I wonder if, at one time, something happened there?

As I said, where I am, the playtrons are encouraged to add to the atmosphere.

Offline kcdcchef

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Re: curious about certain rules stated on website
« Reply #13 on: March 24, 2009, 04:01:25 PM »

 .

Secondly, it is also apparent that you are not interested in actually answering the originally posted question, nor did you even read it.  You keep making reference to 'engaging the lane acts' and, quite frankly, that was never the issue... so apparently you don't 'get it' at all.

 

i get it quite well actually. kcrf lists those who walk around the faire and not really appear in any shows of any kind "lane acts". the rule is in place for a particular reason. he was asking why can you not wear garb and interact with those who pay a ticket like you work there. i made that real clear, crystal clear. because they dont want confusion over who works at the faire, and who does not work at the faire, for the reasons i listed. i listed them and then blakdude acted as if i didnt. if there was someone who needed to discuss a problem with faire management, or had a faire emergency, i mean, they need answers. not someone who has no idea where to point the wayward guest. i pointed that out.

then i further branched out saying the rule is ALSO in place to deter from the lane acts ( wandering ones who are not in a show, madame red, executioner, etc, etc. ) and the main reason is in place not ONLY because of patrons being confused by who works there and who represents the faire, but to keep them from interacting with the kcrf employees on a character level. because then you tie them up longer than other patrons do. i was merely pointing that out.


I do believe 'twas you who made a disparaging remark regarding a 'costume'.  Considering your stance, I can only assume you look down on those who wear garb to Faire, since you 'stopped' doing so years ago, yourself.  This means the personal attacks originated with you and I believe your motive is pretty clear.  What you are doing on a forum filled with such people, then, defies explanation... unless it is with the intention of starting discourse.
 

 .

i look down on no one. i no longer wear garb based on the amount of time i have to dedicate to faire. i have actually thought about going back to it. in 2007, i did wear garb when i went to the pennsylvania renaissance faire multiple times. my stance on kc is that i am only there 2-3 days each season, generally dedicated to hanging out there with my wife, who, is non garb, and sometimes my family, who, for sure are non garb, and it was weird for me, so i decided to just go sans garb unless i have 2 weekends to dedicate to the cause. i love wearing the garb, makes me feel so much more involved. by the way, dont judge me for being on this forum and your interpretation of me. you dont know me. judging by the attitude, i am happy to keep it that way permanently.


 

Secondly, it is also apparent that you are not interested in actually answering the originally posted question, nor did you even read it.  You keep making reference to 'engaging the lane acts' and, quite frankly, that was never the issue... so apparently you don't 'get it' at all.

Finally, I am not here to 'keep score' and it really doesn't matter to me if you perceive it to be the purpose of this forum... I shall not engage in such childishness.  Going forward, I wish no further interaction with you.  

i have now clarified it AGAIN, and will not do so any longer. but i agree about not interacting with you. gladly. not sure which faire you go to, but i am happy to not have to worry about seeing you at one i go to.

This is all so rediculous. Let's stop the arguing right now. No one is attacking anyone. This issue is nothing to hold against KCRF or us who are loyal to it. The rule Blakduke read on the site is merely a beureaucratic weed puller-saver, so that when the issue DOES happen that a playtron offends a patron, KCRF isn't responsible. I assure you, ask any street performer or administrative person... hell, even the maestro, in person, and they will tell you they have nothing against it. Everyone in KC loves the faire experience and the fun that's there for everyone to have. But, if McDonalds has to actually tell people that their coffee is hot these days, then a faire should have to cover its own hide by claiming no responsibilty for the actions of playtrons.

And as for the walking staff issue, that's taking the rule out of context. I think KCRF may be a little more strict on blades than other faires, but anything wooden, no matter how heavy or resembling an actual weapon it may be, is fine.

it may indeed just be lip service. but i have seen them ask people to cease and stop acting like employees in recent years. i know not only do they not want it, but they do enforce it. moreso in recent years. i do agree on the walking stick issue. they dont care. i have seen many patrons there with walking sticks, and have seen many with weapons that were peace tied.

Offline Amyj

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Re: curious about certain rules stated on website
« Reply #14 on: March 24, 2009, 06:13:05 PM »
I'm going to follow up on what TKM said.  The "not interacting on a character level" really just means, playtrons can't try to make money off other paytrons and should not represent themselves as being employed by or contracted by KCRF.  As far as playing....play away, just play nice.

As for the weapons policy...yea, bummer we can't wear our swords...but I think the staff should be ok...as long as it's not covered in metal spiky things...I've never tried though, I'll let you know for sure once I do.  However, you might try emailing the contact listed on the faire website for confirmation...

As for the arguing...how about just come out and check the faire out before getting upset?  It's a great faire and I think you will have a great time.  If not, oh well...I'm sure there are others...but I sure love it!

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