Can't find my tartan!

[Julianne]

I got an "earful" from a "military" Scotsman.

Served in Iraq he did.

Even though publicly the Blackwatch is considered "open".....as he explained it...that's because the taxes paid it thus.  This is not the thinking upon the men and women who serve under that regiment.

Blackwatch is a tartan that is earned....not lived nor expected.

I respect deeply this particular Scotsmans revelations.
I encourage you all to embrace it.

[groomporter]

Well, for purposes of Renfairs, I wouldn't worry about it since the period at fair predates the notion of clans being assigned specific tartans. I usually wear a generic tartan, or as a friend refers to it "mere checkered cloth" anyway.

[Julianne]

Well, for purposes of Renfairs, I wouldn't worry about it since the period at fair predates the notion of clans being assigned specific tartans.

I agree that renfairs are about fun.  This forum is about all things Celtic in that arena.

But it's not okay to purposely direct a person in a direction that will provoke dismay or folly.  New Kilt affecianados whether they be Scottish or not should know the protocol.

We do try to not piss the clans off...don't we?

[groomporter]

I don't know, with all the misinformation about kilts and tartans that are still spread around, it's kind of fun to tweak some of the snobs on occasion 

[Julianne]

I personally would be drawn to someone doning my tartan...I'd see them as a cousin...and then to find out they just picked it because?

I'd be heartily offended and would give that person a Scotswoman tongue lashing that they'd never forget....
And I have many...Reid, MacQuarrie, Wallace (two lines), Chisholm, Rutherford, too many more etc.
I recognize these people by their tartans.


I'm suggesting that the Blackwatch Tartan should be respected as a Scottish Military tartan for those who have served....and not something that any R/F member would casually don. If you served in the Military during wartime...and you are Amercian with proven Scottish descent...then you may don the Blackwatch proudly at a Ren Faire.


To pick it as a casual and "free" tartan..the answer in my mind is no.
If that strikes you as "snobby"....sobeit.

[groomporter]

I think what it comes down to is, while I respect servicemen, if you Google "universal tartans" it seems like the horse has left the barn... and it may be a battle the gallant Forty-twa may have unfortunately already lost in the War of Etiquette.

[Julianne]

I think what it comes down to is, while I respect servicemen, if you Google "universal tartans" it seems like the horse has left the barn... and it may be a battle the gallant Forty-twa may have unfortunately already lost in the War of Etiquette.

Undersood.

[Julianne]

Iiiiiim, just saying

[Angus]

I wear a Kilt.
I am a "Scotsman".
I have a "Family" Tartan.
I wear a Black Watch Tartan kilt. (not my "family" tartan...)
I served for 12 years in the ARMY, with some combat experience.

Personally, I have no problem with anyone wearing a Black Watch Tartan.  I do not find it offensive to see anyone who has not "served" wearing a Black Watch Tartan.  I can understand why someone would be offended, I just don't think it matters.

...as for directing some inexperienced potential first time kilt-wearer to wear a Black Watch Kilt, is quite appropiate.

Victorian era etiquette proposed a "right" or "entitlement", as to whom should wear what type of Tartan, specifically tartan attributed to clans or families. This concept of the 'entitlement' to certain tartans has led to the term of universal tartan, or free tartan, which describes tartan which, in the opinion of some, can be worn by anyone.

Traditional examples of such are the Black Watch, Caledonian, Hunting Stewart, and Jacobite tartans.

In the same line of opinion, some tartan attributed to the British Royal Family are claimed by some to be 'off limits' to non-royals.

I find that mind sets of folk, that hold to the belief that none but those whom have served, are "entitled" to wear the Black Watch are simply honoring those who have served, and I thank them for that honor, yet I cannot find fault with others who wear it, either not knowing of the "tradition", or wishing to connect themselves with those whom have gone before us in Military service.

I, as a Vet, would be more upset watching another Vet berate some new Faire Patron for wearing the "wrong" Tartan, than I would with the Patron.

...now I've said my $0.02 worth,

[Julianne]

I understand and appreciate your point of view.

And really in the end....this is all about respect.
Respect for the service and country.

Please understand my Scot kin in service as well.  You may not care ...but he does.

I'm asking that you turn it around in some way that is beholden to you solidly as an American in Service but that has been lessened in some public way.  e.g.....I can go and get all kinds of military insignia whether I'm entitled to wear it or not...I can get it.

I'm generously assuming that our folk here are of the most honourable in nature and would not assume to don something they are not.

The education is thus...Blackwatch may have been assumed to be a "free" tartan ...but it is not.
Lesson ended.

[groomporter]

I have to admit since the Black Watch was officially assigned their tartan by the government in the 1740's they (and perhaps by extension, the other various regiments that have worn it) do probably have more right to complain about it becoming a universal tartan than the people who get uptight about their civilian tartans that were invented by a couple "Polish" Scots in the 1800's.

[Angus]

Some ungrateful "poser" with a chest full of false medals, wearing a "Military" kilt proudly, does not diminish my, or anyone else's service to their country, but diminishes themselves...

"Never try to teach a Pig to sing, it wastes your time and annoys the Pig." --Lazarus Long

[Laird Fraser of Lovatt]

Talk to any Scottish regiment of Her Majesty's Service and they will indeed "educate"
you.

My dear Groomsporter, Blackwatch is off limits.  If an American dons it it shows not only an ignorance of gaelic pride but a disrespect of those celts who died in service for country.


Just saying.

 

Ma'am, i wear Blackwatch tartan.  My cousin was a Sergent Major in the Black Watch and served for over 20 years... as have other members of my family.  I am a Fraser of Lovat but i don't like wearing my formal kilt to faire, so Blackwatch serves me fine.

I too have done my time in the military and wear my kilts proudly

 

[Julianne]

Fraser of Lovatt,  Inasmuch all you say is true then I, and more importantly a born
Scot, would consider you entitled to don it sir

[Zardoz]

Well, One of the fun things about kilts and tartan is hearing all the myths, legends and wildly divergent expert advice that is out there!  

There are a few tartans that are privately owned and who's sale is restricted, But Black Watch (always two words, experts) , or 'goverment sett' is not one of them.  Like it or not, BW, like many of the tartans used by the military (like the Royal and Hunting Stewart you always see) has been considered a "universal" tartan for well over a hundred years. One theory is that a lot of used military kilts found their way into the rental market. Some think it's because it's just a simple sett to produce.
It is indeed one of the most commonly seen setts on everything from kilts and other clothing to throw rugs and soup cans.

Like many of the tartans used by the British military, it also was a family tartan, in this case a Campbell tartan.  In 1725 six Independent Black Watch companies were formed. Three from Clan Campbell, one from Clan Fraser, one from Clan Munro and one from Clan Grant. These companies were known by the name Reicudan Dhu, or Black Watch.  The regiment was then officially known as the 42nd Regiment of Foot.  So the bulk of the original 'Watch' was raised from Campbell clans.

So Campbell's and their septs  can certainly wear it, although most seem to favor the weathered version. It is also used as a hunting tartan by Clan Grant. Now there are some other clans that didn't like the Campbells or the Black Watch too much, because of clan war or run-ins with the goverment.  But honestly, that stuff happened like 300 years ago!

So if you like the looks of the Campbell/ Black Watch/Govt. Sett/Grant Hunting Tartan, by all means wear it,  If anyone asks you why, just tell them you really like soup!