Paranoia at the Farie rant

[Marietta Graziella]

Majik, I think they are leaving you alone because you are an on staff photographer and a known person.  Other people are just "potential criminals" with cameras. 

It's good to be aware, it's not good to be a jerk about it.  Perhaps some sensitivity training for the SS folks?  LOL  They have a difficult job out there so there needs to be some education.

[groomporter]

Hmm, and I was thinking about bringing the 500mm out just to use up the 35mm film I was gifted with.

[DeadBishop]

It sounds to me like the situation was poorly handled by those on Safety Services that were doing the leg work.  There are quite a few newbies there over the past two years.

In my specific instance, it was a safety service person who has been there several years, so there shouldn't be an excuse for that.

Let me state that I do support safety services and know several of them (hi Nessa! ) , but it's instances like this that I wanted to say to this particular person "c'mon, really? I thought you were trained professionals."  I think a little PR instruction is in order.

[groomporter]

I coulda sworn this same issue was being discussed in another fair thread here very recently, but I couldn't find it again.

[groomporter]

I think the other thing to remind SS is that there is a photography contest that has been specifically promoted on the MNRF Facebook page.

[DeadBishop]

I think the other thing to remind SS is that there is a photography contest that has been specifically promoted on the MNRF Facebook page.

A perfect example of "the left hand not knowing what the right hand is doing"... 

[Noble Dreg]

I think the other thing to remind SS is that there is a photography contest that has been specifically promoted on the MNRF Facebook page.

At first I was willing to give the "other side" a chance to 'splain themselves...but this is just beyond belief!..."We have a contest with prizes!  But if you are stupid enough to try and win we'll kick your can off site"!

Maybe not their intent but certainly the way it appears.

Let's talk about something a bit more positive about 'fest...how 'bout parking?    

[Charlotte Rowan]

I think the other thing to remind SS is that there is a photography contest that has been specifically promoted on the MNRF Facebook page.

At first I was willing to give the "other side" a chance to 'splain themselves...but this is just beyond belief!..."We have a contest with prizes!  But if you are stupid enough to try and win we'll kick your can off site"!

Maybe not their intent but certainly the way it appears.

Let's talk about something a bit more positive about 'fest...how 'bout parking?    

Oh we're already talking about parking... see the What's New thread!

[majikboxman]

I'll also put in a note 'should of before' that I highly respect the SS and the job they do.

[Random Girl]

I was intending on getting clarification from the SS big man but didn't get around to it, just too much going on.  I will look into it next week.  Or if my internets are working at home, sometime this week. 

I see both sides of this and I wasn't there, we had gotten reports of a man with a large camera lens taking pictures of children that was making people uncomfortable.  There was a vague discription. Therefore ALL people seen meeting the requirements of a person with a larger camera lens were asked to desist. 

Whatever implications were made towards pedophelia I don't know.  I don't think DB was exaggerating but I can't see that coming from the SS person in question at least not to that tone.  Probably more of a "we've had problems with this in the past" etc but not so blatently expressing their opinion of you as a pedophile.

I would also like to note that we are NOT trained professionals.  We are a group of people that probably knew someone on the team that didn't mind getting yelled at and abused for 13 hours a day for minimum wage.  Yes some of us are security professionals in our real life (I am not one of them) but a majority of them are just friends of existing crew that were willing to work for what was provided to them.  We go through some basic scenario training and do have an SOP to follow from but that just doesn't cover everything.  We do our best based on the situation and what we have available to us. 

Now, as I said I will talk to the big cheese and get clarification on the photography rule.  My best suggestion for everyone would be to stick with people and subject you actually know.  If approached by SS please don't get defensive and be cooperative, there are a lot of prudish people that come out to fest who make complaints about EVERYTHING, be willing to display the pictures you have taken either on your own or after being prompted. 

That's all I've got on this one.  I'll give you a better answer when I get one.

[KeithR]

Oh... B/T/W Keith, I've met you a-couple of times in Mankato @ training camp.  Love your work.

Thanks for the kindness! I know we met and talked last season at the first P&S show(with the new guy). I ended up getting a lot of really nice pics and after talking with him before a performance, I thought I'd give him a couple pics from that. Think he'd like it?
Anyway, I find the this discussion interesting. While I have never followed a kid around, I have waited for a moment to repeat itself, or I'll move to get better light. But never would I stalk a kid just to get a shot. If anyone where to follow me, they'd quickly learn that I have no set plan to follow. I did that one year, as I wanted to see a lot of the shows and ended up not taking as many pics as I like. So, for the past few years I just meander. And there is absolutely no way I hide or disguise what I do.
As for what happened this past weekend, like I said, I was spoken to in a very polite manor, but had I known what's printed on the ticket, or thought about any contest, I would have brought that to their attention. And while this may have been about a parent and a child, what if an adult just didn't want their pic snapped? Where is the line to be drawn? I have to agree with DB as the intent as to what is on the ticket. If someone has a compaint, it should be pointed out to them that photography is allowed, and even encouraged by way of a contest. And security should have been aware of this. As I stated before, if anyone wanted to see what I shot, all they had to do was to ask. Heck, I've offered to show people what I just shot if they looked like they'd like to see it.
As an aside, I do find the fact that(what I perceive as) security personnel are referred to here as "SS" and given the actions, I find it nervously amusing.

[groomporter]

But, even going on those assumptions, according to the wording on the ticket, photographers DO NOT need permission to take photos of anyone at fest.  And I quote:

"Ticket Holder further assumes for himself/herself, as well as for each minor in the charge of ticket holder....consents to the use of ticket holder likeness incidental or primary to any promotion, display, transmissions, or reproductions of the event."  

The problem is I think that clause is probably intended to only apply to usage by Mid-America Festivals. It gives MAF the right to use any photos or video they take for the promotion of MNRF

I suspect that it does not actually give any usage rights to outside photographers who are not promoting MNRF. Non-MNRF usage is probably only protected by the normal right to take pictures at a public event.

[Carl Heinz]

I suspect that the major reason I'm able to have Lightning Scooter-Horse is that it provides a photo op.  The release that's included in our participant agreement is, I suspect, intended to allow use of photographs by the event but it's sufficiently broad that you'd have a difficult time arguing that it doesn't permit pictures by the public, too.

That being said, we unfortunately live in a time when innocent intentions can be distorted into something else.  My 13 year old grandson has a second degree junior black belt in karate and I've threatened to get him a T-shirt that says "Predator Bane".  But I don't think many children would be so able to defend themselves.  I don't have a problem with people taking random photos of adults, but I think permission should be given for taking pictures of children.

I also find it interesting that many people ask me for permission  If nothing else, it is a courtesy.

[tcindie]

The only problem with stopping someone to ask permission to photograph them before snapping a photo or two is that it means you wind up with mostly posed photos, which are decidedly less interesting to look at.  Any professional or enthusiast photographer would agree with that point...

[Carl Heinz]

In my case, I have props that can come into play when someone wants to stage a picture.  I have a number of hand puppets with me so that if folks want a picture with their children, I can use a pony finger puppet.  If folks want their picture taken with their lady, I can use the lecherous colt.  Sometimes posed can be more interesting.