Or am I just being too crabby? ::)
We love the musical acts best at the faire. Our regular favorites and acts that are new to us. We try to buy the performers CDs, as do many other patrons. Hence, after listening to our CDs time after time, we, like others, know the words to most of the songs. Which is great. However......
It drives me absolutely nuts when we sit down to hear a musical act, and somebody (or bodies, it depends how many) starts singing along. Not during an audience sing along, but while the performer or performers are playing and singing. And some of the singers are not in key or even defined as "good" singers. I end up hearing them - which I really don't want to - instead of the performer(s) I wanted to hear.
Does this bother anybody else? What do you do? Since the performers never ask the audience to stop singing, I don't feel it is my place to ask the person next to me or in the row ahead of me to please shut up. But it really makes me go batty.
I will caveat my reply by pointing out that I am very ne3w too all of this, but I have been going to VaRF all this season. I would not have come at all were my girlfriend not a performer. At VaRF there seem to be two different kinds of venues, the stages, and the tavern. In the tavern I sometimes cannot hear the performers for all the miscellaneous noise, exclusive of those singing along. It all seems to depend on weather and crowd size. During a downpour, the acts were very hard to hear. I think that singing along in the tavern is not a great offense. OTOH, were such singing along to occur at the various stages, it would seem very intrusive. A further complication, is that often entertainers will join each other spontaneously. A patron could easily misinterpret this as an invitation to join in.
I have been volunteering at the gate,so sometimes I mis the intricacies of what happens elsewhere. I can tell you this from what I see at the gate: the faire is a lot of different things to many different people. Some are very authentic, some have dramatic costumes, some are oriented to the entertainment, and others come in mufti to watch it all. The militia guys want to talk technology, while the cast is surreptitiously glancing at timepieces which would have been the envy of a period navigator. I don't see how one can create a common etiquette of behavior at shows, unless there is some kind of written guidance for all to see and accept.
My vote would be for three different standards of behavior at three different kinds of performance venue. For a tavern-like environment, I suggest that anything short of directly hindering the performance would be alright. For informal stages, a mix of sing-alongs would be appropriate, with a performer being in a position to ask if the audience would be quietly attentive only for a limited set of songs. Finally, some venues would be like concert halls, with an emphasis on not making sounds that could diminish your neighbor's enjoyment.
Not as much as the people that talk on their cell phones or to someone sitting next to them. Sat some a hole sitting behind me were so load I couldn't hear half the songs the Moor of Dunee was singing.
Yes it bothers me.
Lady B I promise not to sing along with any performer at Bristol. ::)
Like Bear said Cell phones and loud talking aggravate me too. It is hard enough to hear some of the ones at Scarby with no mikes or PA's.
Doesn't bother me at all. People want to sing along and have fun, fine with me.
I am guilty of singing along, at times. I just get caught up in the moment....
I do agree about the cells going off and people yakking. Get up and leave or better yet........turn the darn thing to vibrate! (get a tickle that way! lmao! :P)
I agree with Lady Renee. I d0 not come to hear anyone else sing but the performer. Those singing or on cell phones should be asked to stop or leave, period.
And ren fests are not the only place there is a problem. I remember one Moody Blues concert several years ago that was practically ruined by one woman who "knew the songs by heart" (Hah!) and "just can't stop because I am so happy".
If you want to sing along, get the CD and stay home, or join the group.
My 2 cents worth.
I would have to say I disagree...I sing along. I sing along with Three Pints Gone...I sing along with RUSH....I sing along with American Idol. Music moves me, always has. I have also performed, and nothing was worse than singing to a bunch of mannequins (I honestly have no clue how someone can feel music and sit like a stone...but that is just me). I took it as a compliment that people sang along. HOWEVER...I do not try to sing at or over the volume of the performers (except for RUSH, it's too loud to matter), or so that those around me can only hear me instead of the performers they are there to hear.
Personally, I think that at faire, singing along is part of the experience. Just as the random fae getting up and dancing at a show is....just as wearing garb when you aren't on cast is. I think that the performers would be really disappointed if we just got the CD and stayed home...but I can recommend that if you want a purely "Act Only" performance.
If you are talking loudly or on a cell phone however...take off....move to the side...AWAY from the audience...GO...scat!!!
Just my thoughts.
I have to agree with Lady Renee.
Thankfully I haven't encountered this much at faire as most people at my local faire are sticks in the mud.
However I have encountered at concerts before.
One time at a Goo Goo Dolls concert I had to turn around and tell two teenage girls to either move or shut their trap or I would call security. I had laid out a nice blanket (on the grass) for my friends and I to sit on- we got there 2 hrs early to do this. These two came at the last minute and got their muddy feet on our blanket and stood literally 2 inches behind us (I could feel their breath on the back of my neck) screaming their guts out.
I am all about singing along- but sing along in a tone of voice for yourself, not so everyone else in the vicinity can hear you instead of the performer. You want to stand up and dance around like a maniac- go for it as long as your not totally blocking someone else's view or bumping into people.
AmyJ- see that to me is totally good because your singing for your own enjoyment- not trying to lose your voice.
See I'm the "jerk" that if someone starts yakking on the phone next to me at a performance/movie I will turn around and tell them to move away or keep it down. I guess it helps that I am almost 6' tall and have a very good "scary face"
Wow....actually a topic that I find myself on both sides of the pub.
I like to just listen to certain groups - and "sometimes" get annoyed when someone else sings along. Although those that sometimes annoy me are the ones that are loud, off key, out of rythm and stop jerk (sing part, then stop because they forgot or don't know the words, then start again at the chorus)
Other times, I like to sing along - and I am the one that is loud, off key, out of rythm and stop jerk (because I either never learned all the words or my oldshiemers has caused me to forget them).
Usually it is in direct correlation to the amount of pints "I might ave been drinkin"
As for people that talk on a cell phone, just carry on conversations or let a baby cry when sitting in the "Audience" section. I have the unique ability to turn and politely ask them to please SHUT UP so that I can go back to listening or annoying, whatever the pint rate may be.
But then again, usually about the time I say I am going to go to a show and sit in the audience section, some member of the group or one of their fans usually sends a pint my way in the pub, and like most know about my AADD, the pint is like a squirrel.....I get distracted and wind up staying in the pub.
I also feel that any performers that actually are in a PUB and those that go to PUBS to listen to them, that is the place you must deal with any and all distractions.....Not everyone that is in the pub even cares that an act is there, some are just there for the Pints.
I sing along, but quietly. If people sing too loudly, it sometimes gets on my nerves.
Quote from: Auryn on June 04, 2010, 11:44:37 AM
See I'm the "jerk" that if someone starts yakking on the phone next to me at a performance/movie I will turn around and tell them to move away or keep it down. I guess it helps that I am almost 6' tall and have a very good "scary face"
You're my favorite person at a performance/ movie. I'd love to tell them to shush it, but I'm too much of a chicken (unless it's one of my students- then I have no problem)
I completely agree with music in a pub. Other people talking isn't the problem.
I also sing under my breath, no one can hear but me. If you look at me, it looks like I'm talking or singing without any sound, so I am happily joining in, but I don't bother other people.
It's just at a stage, when the performers are up there, singing and playing, that it bugs me when people around me sing like THEY are the person everyone else came to hear.
maybe put a nickel in their mug and they'll get the hint?
I'll sing along TO MYSELF, if I know the words. But people singing out loud annoys me in most instances. I guess what's worse was one time while I was enjoying a instrumental band, no vocals, and this lady pushes up to the front with her camcorder, and parks right in front of me. No biggie, she was shorter, so she was getting an unobstructed view for her video. But then she starts singing anyway. Remember there's no vocals, so she's just "La La lalala " etc... Since the camera was next to her head, I'm sure her video sounded great!
I hate loud cellphone talkers. Thought the acts usually discourage them by taking the the phone away and talking to whoever is there. after that other people don't use theirs during the show.
I did have someone ask me if I was recording. Good thing I wasn't or she would have ruined the video.
Actually it doesn't bother me at all if people sing along. A lot of the time that is the interaction the group wants, especially from the people that are constant followers. Audiance participation... It lets the group know people are very interested and even know their lyrics. I have been one to sing along as well, not over the performer, and it immerses me in a different time and place. To me it makes for a more realistic time of faire. People are having fun, being entertained and joining in as it would have been on a period faire day. Of course not everyone has a good voice either, but that makes even more for the realism. I am more of a realist on that side. When I go to a faire, and walk the streets, I want to hear music, hawking, period conversation, instruments, people joining in, especially when I am in a conversation with someone. It puts me in that period. To hear a flute or harp playing in the vicinity of my conversation has me Right There in the time. I have been to faires where these things have been cut big time and not to hear other rennies singing along or participating in some way leaves me in a different place then faire. We all don't like little kids whining or crying at performances either, but it is part of life and kids add to the realism. Some people with kids will get up and leave so as to not to bother everyone else, while others will use the music to calm them. I think it makes for more atmosphere. But thats just me.
On the other hand, I am not for cell phone talkers at performances. or the ones who just go and then just talk loud through the show with friends. Those are the ones that if you want to just talk, then move away. I happen to find that way more annoying. But this is me. To me if people are having a good time, that is what it is all about. If they are being rude, then there is an issue and I have and will tell them.
Lord Clisto, Duke of York
Ok...from a musician's standpoint: The genre of music and the venue will have some bearing on what is going on in the audience.
At the faire, unless the performer WANTS you to sing along, keep it down. BUT, most folk performers like for you to sing the chorus. If the performer is having trouble being heard over the crowd, it's really up to them to lead the audience.
Some of the stages are in bad places to have an attentive crowd. Those next to the main eateries (like the King's Pavilion and Sea Hag stages at Scarby) are going to have trouble. It's inevitable. The performer is generally there as background. At the outlying stages, those should be taken as concert venues. If you want to talk on your cell phone, GO AWAY!!! Let the rest of us enjoy the show, since you obviously aren't interested. (If I had my druthers, I'd install a magnetic dome over the faire to stop cell phone transmissions!) If you want to engage in a loud, extended conversation with your friends, please GO ELSEWHERE! Quit being so bloody rude to the performers and to the others around you. We really don't CARE that your 4-year-old wiped his arse with the cat.
KeeperOfTheBar, I'm a long-time Moody Blues fan. Like you, when I go to a show, I'm there to hear THEM perform. ...and I know most of their music as well, and perform a lot of it with my band.
In summary, most folk music performers will bring their audiences in at some point. Take their lead.
I am guilty of singing along. Only when I KNOW the songs; and I DO have a nice singing voice. It really depends on the group, however. I'll sing like crazy with Bramblebush (with all of their turnovers last year I don't think that they minded) but with groups like De Cantus I only sing when they ask for audience participation. When the spirit moves you sometimes you just have to sing! =)
I also sing along. I must admit that it does sound really nice when the performers sing the verses and the audience all sing the chorus together. I really enjoy that!
I dislike when people sit on the benches and have conversations completely unaware that there is a performance going on around them. I prefer that they leave.
Haven't been aware of the cel-phone talkers.
Quote from: Merlin the Elder on June 06, 2010, 10:41:42 AM
...We really don't CARE that your 4-year-old wiped his arse with the cat.
LOL Actually, that's something I wouldn't mind overhearing, though I would have to leave since I'd be cracking up
Quote from: Amyj on June 04, 2010, 11:30:42 AM
I would have to say I disagree...I sing along. I sing along with Three Pints Gone...I sing along with RUSH....HOWEVER...I do not try to sing at or over the volume of the performers (except for RUSH, it's too loud to matter),
Rest assured, my entire family and I will definately be singing along to RUSH when we see them in concert again in July! ;D
I'll sing along, but quietly enough not to disturb my neighbors, unless the band asks us to sing along (like the Jolly Rogers and "One For The Road"--they ENCOURAGE us to be as loud as possible, even though it's mostly the joke of "Sing with the chorus, it's easy!" and then they go through the list of 20000000 drinks and everyone who hasn't heard it before is going "???"). Sometimes performers want the audience to join in, sometimes they don't. It's a matter of respecting both the performers' wishes and, when you do sing, being respectful of your neighbors and keeping it at a level where they can hear the performer and not you.
Speaking as a musician who has spent years in a band, I want my audience singing along. I write most of our music and it's quite honestly a rush to see people singing the words that I wrote. I also sing when I attend concerts, though not loudly (with the exception of seeing James in Cambridge, UK). No one's ever complained but then I also know that I can actually sing...
The cell phone thing has never been an issue; I've never had someone do that at a concert or during a show. I suppose I'm lucky.
Quote from: Merlin the Elder on June 06, 2010, 10:41:42 AM
The performer is generally there as background.
Yes, it's the same old discussion, isn't it? Most of the shopkeepers/artists/craftspeople view the entertainment/music as background. The entertainers/musicians view the shops as backdrops/sets.
I am an artist and I used to belong to an art organization, where that topic came up frequently. The musicians wanted to be the main attraction, with a few pieces of art hanging up on the walls. The visual artists wanted to be the highlight of the show, with music playing in the background. My close friend is one of the musicians, so I understand that side of it.
Where my shop is now located, there used to be a stage about 2 shops north of mine. It was nice that we could watch some of the shows, while not leaving the shop. Sometimes, though, the noise from the stage was so loud that we couldn't hear what our customers were asking. To the west of the stage began the row of food booths, so that added more people, who were standing in line and talking/yelling. Directly in front of my shop was a pickle barrel and they are quite loud. They took that stage down a few years ago, but there are still street performers that draw a crowd. It becomes a bottleneck at times and really noisy. It's just part of the show, though. When I go home at night, my ears are ringing. That's just how it is.
It's really difficult to cover all of the bases... you please one, you alienate another. The artisans and shopkeepers are there to make their living, but so are the performers. Both sides are absolutely essential to the faire. But this is drifting from the original topic (my fault, methinks).
Regarding the "singalongers," I say again, follow the lead of the performer(s).
Don't get me wrong, if the performer asks for the crowd to sing along- I sing back just as loud as anyone else- but only when the performer asks it.
Another real life example that just happened.
Went to see Prince of Persia finally this weekend (due to finances we can only see a handful of movies a year instead of the 15-20 we would like to see in the theaters)- went to an old people matinee.
Everything is fine first 15 minutes- then a band of about 10 12yrolds come stomping into the theater and sit all the way back (about 4 rows behind me) and proceed to chit chat, giggle and be obnoxious.
Of all the people in the theater (about 20 not including the kids) I am the one that had to get up after 15 minutes of not being able to hear any dialogue and tell them to shut it or id have them removed from the theater.
So its not just a faire thing.
My general rule is that if your having of a good time doesn't disrupt or impede someone else's good time- its all good.
Quote from: Auryn on June 07, 2010, 11:31:13 AM
My general rule is that if your having of a good time doesn't disrupt or impede someone else's good time- its all good.
Well said Auryn!
I like it when fans sing along with the chorus, or even softly along with the rest. It's an experience I can't get from a cd and it adds to the spirit of faire for me. I find it joyous!
I also find it joyous when Christophe the Insultor gets ahold of a phone weilding boob and we get to vote him/her in as the grand insultee for that show. hehehe... :D
The thing that gets me is the people who come up to buy anything and stay on the phone! That makes me not a very happy garland girl!
In the lanes I start SCREECHING that they have a diease and try to hustle as many patrons out of the way that will let me.
I am one of the ones singing along, however since I know that my ability to be in the correct key is pretty much a crapshoot, I tend to sing quietly enough that nobody can hear me.
What I find much more annoying is someone who brings their own instrument (usually percussion of some sort), on which they've been getting "lessons"... which have NOT been successful, then proceed to "play along" with the band. Yeah, umm, you there, with the doumbek/djembe/bodhran/spoons/bones, STOP IT, you are FOLLOWING, not playing along, therefore you are a half-beat or so off, and while the musicians on the stage may not be able to hear it, I can, as can the other people sitting within 5 feet of you, and it's damned irritating, having the sound of some of my favorite tunes screwed up by a twit like you. I understand that you would like to learn to play whatever tune they are playing, and I applaud your efforts, but PLEASE, sit in the back, or off to the side, instead of in the front row, smack in the middle.
Nope, doesn't bother me at all. I've been lucky not to be near anyone loud, off-key, and obnoxious. I like seeing people get into the spirit of the show, and if I really love a song I'll sing along myself. What annoys me to no end are screaming kids who won't stop, and their parents who refuse to leave. If the kid insists on having a prolonged tantrum, it's time to get up and walk away.
Quote from: raevyncait on June 07, 2010, 10:35:01 PM
What I find much more annoying is someone who brings their own instrument (usually percussion of some sort), on which they've been getting "lessons"... which have NOT been successful, then proceed to "play along" with the band.
Wow, I can't believe anyone would do that (well, yes, I can technically believe it, but I've had the luck never to have seen it happen)
Owain Phyfe and the New World Renaissance hand out percussion style instruments to folks just *so* that they may play along. Not everyone gets it right, but it makes for a fun jam like session.
I have to wonder, Renee. If you were in church and the choir were singing...something not meant to be sung along to, and some child behind you suddenly lifted her not so on pitch voice to sing along and loudly...would that be so awful? Would you want to shush her, or would you be glad she was so happy to be there? Isn't it sort of the same thing?
You know, Anna, I was thinking that very thing, but didn't want to post it. Thanks for bringing that up.
I didn't mean to veer off the original post in my post yesterday. My point was that to me, it all becomes background noise, so it doesnt' matter who is singing what. After listening to the pickle hawkers, the street performers, etc. for 10 hours a day, I just tune it out.
Quote from: Anna Iram on June 07, 2010, 10:11:59 PM
...I also find it joyous when Christophe the Insultor gets ahold of a phone weilding boob and we get to vote him/her in as the grand insultee for that show. hehehe... :D
I think I
like that young lad! Bravo!
I thnk there are certain times for sing-alongs and certain times to listen. Pub sings, rowdier groups, or groups with such a fan base that they MUST have the largest stage I think are okay to sing along with. If the king is singing, I sit quietly. if it is a quiet, soft song, I listen and sing in my head.
Get the Bawdy Boys going and I don't shut up.
Start with some Johnnie Jump Up and I'm YELLING lyrics instead of singing them
Some groups WANT the audience participations.
I must agree that I get more irritated with cell phones or other convos at shows. I've gotten up and walked away when my phone rings or someone wants to chat.
To each their own! I'll make sure to not sing if YOU'RE at the same show, Lady Renee! :)
Quote from: Anna Iram on June 07, 2010, 11:41:22 PM
Owain Phyfe and the New World Renaissance hand out percussion style instruments to folks just *so* that they may play along. Not everyone gets it right, but it makes for a fun jam like session.
I have to wonder, Renee. If you were in church and the choir were singing...something not meant to be sung along to, and some child behind you suddenly lifted her not so on pitch voice to sing along and loudly...would that be so awful? Would you want to shush her, or would you be glad she was so happy to be there? Isn't it sort of the same thing?
Anna, church is not faire. Anyone who sings praises to God, loud or soft, on key or off, should never be quieted. And it doesn't bother me at all, because it usually happens almost every Sunday at church. "Those who sing, pray twice."
Faire is different. Someone sitting right next to me, singing loudly, so I can't hear or enjoy the show I came to hear - that is what bothers me. If the act encourages singing along or like Owain does, gives out instruments to play along, that is fine. The performer wants the participation. But if not, I'd prefer that someone sing to themselves, softly. Not stop singing totally. Just not bellowing.
Kate, I'll sit and sing with you, how's that! ;)
Quote from: Lady Renee Buchanan on June 08, 2010, 07:03:32 AM
Kate, I'll sit and sing with you, how's that! ;)
Sounds good! For what I lack in tone, I make up for in passion! :)
Quote from: Merlin the Elder on June 08, 2010, 05:08:37 AM
Quote from: Anna Iram on June 07, 2010, 10:11:59 PM
...I also find it joyous when Christophe the Insultor gets ahold of a phone weilding boob and we get to vote him/her in as the grand insultee for that show. hehehe... :D
I think I like that young lad! Bravo!
Yeah, it's pretty funny. What really cracks me up is they stick around and take the insulting instead of just leaving the stage. :D
It's all in good spirited fun.
I can't stand cell phones at faire.
Afraid I do sing along sometimes- but try to be quiet about it- unless I am performing. I can't help myself! LOL!
I remember a few years ago, when I was serenaded in front of my shop. In that case, I would not want someone singing along, well...unless they were serenading me also! ;D
I can say that the sing-along people annoy me a whole lot less than people talking loudly on cell phones, screaming at their kids who are out in the lane and just generally holding a loud conversation amongst themselves.
The King's Pub Stage at Scarborough is right next to the bungee swing. Unless you go to the 10:30am show you can't even hear the performers over the screaming kids.
Quote from: Queen Bonnie on June 08, 2010, 02:37:57 PM
I can't stand cell phones at faire.
I can't stand cell phones
anywhere, except for emergencies.
If you were in the middle of a conversation with someone, and another person walked up and interrupted, you wouldn't put up with that, would you? Well, if you're having a conversation with me, and you answer your phone, don't expect me to be around when you get through with your phone conversation. Cell phones have made people extremely rude. Nim got me one to keep in my car for emergencies. If I have an emergency, the first thing I'll need to do is figure out how to turn it on.
I don't know if this has been said yet but I felt the need to say it...
I've been involved in stage and choir for 15 years.
There is a difference between a stage performance at a closed venue and a stage performance at a faire. Just like there is a difference between and opera and a rock concert.
I find it to be a compliment when people start singing along because 1. I'd rather they be singing along (even with a newer song, or a version of a song) showing that they are enjoying the music than sitting down and then getting up to sit somewhere else because they weren't enjoying it and 2. because it's expected in such an open place! I've only been to BARF and Sarasota Medieval Faire so I don't know what it's like at other faires.
I have a friend who is a faire performer and I sing along to his songs. I even get up and dance behind the back seatings. I asked him if it's too much and if he wants me to stop and he said, "NO! It helps get people into it. Keep doing it!"
There have been times in Faire audiences that I have started singing the words to a song I know and someone else pipes in, and then two or three others will and before you know it, the artist has said that if anyone knows the words to any song to feel free to pipe in!
If a performer doesn't want someone to sing along at an event like a Renaissance Festival then book a concert hall where no one can open the doors except between songs.
If no one does anything during the songs except clap, the artists sees it as the audience didn't enjoy the show and feels obligated to clap because they happen to be sitting there.
That's how I felt when I was on stage...
Just wanted to pipe some two cents in...
I am also a lot more bothered by cell phones than a noisy audience.
Jade, I'm with you. I get into the music and will sing along with songs that I like. I've also had feedback from performers that they're glad to have people in the audience who are "getting into it." I think the key is moderation....do what makes you enjoy the moment more, but don't interrupt the performance or bother the neighbors!
Bob of the Lake, I see it mostly as a venue issue. If one is located in a large place where drinking, make believe, dancing, and singing along with yelling, shouting and loud noises are prevelent, then audience singing is not only expected, but encouraged! I've been in many Faire audiences where, right from the start, the artist says they want the audience to make as much noise as they can so that "the passerbyes get jealous of all the fun we're having."
And the same goes for a concert hall venue. If you are in a place where there is little drinking and frivolity, then yes, singing outloud is not only unexpected but downright rude. Unless, of course, all of my choir teachers were incorrect on telling us these things when we took field trips to the State Fair and the Strawberry Festival for outdoor concerts...