We in the US live in a society dominated by extroverts. Introverts are a minorty (about 25% of the population) that is widely misunderstood by most of the other 75%. Introverts are frequently accused of being "aloof," "anti-social," "awkward," and sometimes even "slow" or "dull-witted" due to their need for alone time, preference for solitude or small gatherings over big parties, and desire for time to reflect and gather their thoughts before speaking.
Furthermore, reading through employment ads, it's pretty common to see phrases like, "Seeking outgoing, energetic individual...", "team player" and "must enjoy working with people." It's not as common, but not unheard of, to see, blatantly, "Introverts are not a good fit for this position."
Do you think our society discriminates against introverts?
(See also: an insightful and funny-but-serious article about relating to intoverts, "Caring For Your Introvert": http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2003/03/caring-for-your-introvert/2696/
Iam very introverted around people till i really get to know them and I understand why people, and buisnesses seak extroverts for some positions. If someone isnt good for a position, they arent good for it. I could never be a bar tender or a hostess I just dont have what it takes to just randomly chat to perfect strangers as if they were a close friends, knowing this and knowing myself I wouldnt apply for a job where being introverted would make it difficult. I think most introverted people are aware of this and avoid such jobs, to me a statement like "Introverts are not a good fit for this position." is similar to "must be willing to work nights".
I just recently redid my Myers-Briggs/Jung personality test and scored even more introverted than I had in the past. 78 point introvert in fact. Most people who know me find this to be almost unbelievable. Years ago when I first did a test of this fashion, it gave me a better understanding of myself. With that knowledge, I decided to focus on my "weaknesses". I still need to get away and recharge occasionally but I am completely able to function around people and in groups. I am able to do this because I faced my lack again and again. I am a big fan of personal responsibility so I took on the task of being able to mimic extroverts. This has made me much more personable in nearly every aspect. In short, we are masters of ourselves. Once you know something, you have power over it if you chose. Any discrimination we suffer from is due to ourselves. Sometimes you just have to hang it out there and fake it til you make it. Risk a bit and you'll find that the rewards can be quite fruitful.
I am not a psychologist...but I am interested in the subject and read a great deal. The Myers-Briggs/Jung test defines Intro/Extro not as an outward personality trait but as how an individual "re-charges". Do you gain energy from crowds and parties or from solitude and reflection? You can be a social "extrovert" and still be an MBJ "introvert" (which pretty much describes me too!).
I believe the original post is discussing "social" introvert/extrovert.
I'm in engineering, the last bastion of introverts everywhere! I would not call it discrimination but much like the "waitress" analogy, social introverts make lousy public facing employees but I know they are preferred by personnel departments for accounting and finance for example.
Being socially "introverted" is no more a personality defect than being "extroverted". True, some need to come out of their shell to see the real world and get a life where as some extroverts need to put a sock in it! But difference is what makes the social soup taste so good.
I can think of plenty of successful introverts, Bill Gates, Steve Jobs, I'm sure there are other non-geeky one's too! ;D
I would say i tend to be an introvert and i am in customer service. The thing with me is once i am comfortable in my surrondings i have no problem interacting with people but i do enjoy my alone time alot.
When i first started faire people thought it was strange i would just wander and watch and pretty much stay in my own little bubble but as i got use to the people and the enviroment my bubble grew.
Quote from: Sir Garath on June 07, 2010, 07:41:05 AM
I would say i tend to be an introvert and i am in customer service. The thing with me is once i am comfortable in my surrondings i have no problem interacting with people but i do enjoy my alone time alot.
When i first started faire people thought it was strange i would just wander and watch and pretty much stay in my own little bubble but as i got use to the people and the enviroment my bubble grew.
I'm pretty similar. I have no problem getting up infront of my students, but when I'm around people I don't know, it takes me a while to come out of my shell.
I have noticed that I'm more outgoing as a persona than as myself, and more outgoing online than in person.
Quote from: Tink on June 07, 2010, 12:20:33 PM
...I have noticed that I'm more outgoing as a persona than as myself, and more outgoing online than in person...
Funny how that seems to work. I'm totally a social inept person. I like the safety of those I know, even if it is only slight. I am trying to force myself to be more outgoing. It seems to help some to be Merlin rather than my real self. I do plan to work on improv skills in order to be able to hold my own when I run into a cast member who tries to engage me, or even a muggle who assumes me to be a cast member. (I'd love to be in the cast but live too far away!)
Anyone with knowledge of sources for working on improv skills, I'd love to hear from you!
As long as any exclusionary thing decides what you are...then you will be.
Introvertism/Extrovertism is really a psycobabble term and should not be used in modern society. :)
So...I'm ok, you're ok? ;) That gives me some hope for a normal (?!?) life, whatever there is left of it.
what's this "normal" you speak of?
Quote from: Julianne on June 07, 2010, 05:18:52 PM
As long as any exclusionary thing decides what you are...then you will be.
Introvertism/Extrovertism is really a psycobabble term and should not be used in modern society. :)
It feels relevent to me.
The thing I have a problem with is people saying over and over again, "Well, you can overcome your introversion if you want to." Why on earth would I want to do that? I don't want to overcome any other aspects of my personality!
I don't know if I necessarily think introverts are discriminated against, but I certainly feel we are misunderstood and that we can have a tough time in life simply because there are more extroverts out there (at least in the US) and thus society is geared more towards them.
Yes, and I'm tired of it because if the world didn't have us, keeping to ourselves and thinking through situations before acting, then we'd be in a lot more trouble than we already are. So introverts unite. There's nothing wrong with it.
Quote from: Tink on June 07, 2010, 08:30:10 PM
what's this "normal" you speak of?
"Normal," friend Tink, is a state of mind, and one of several states I've never had the pleasure to visit.
I think there are certain jobs that require someone to be an extrovert. If you are an introvert why would you WANT to get into an "extroverted" job where you are required to put on a happy "people-person" face and be outgoing? I think that would make someone, not an extrovert, but shy or not a people-person.
As a teacher I HAVE to be an extrovert. Even if I'm not feeling it one day I MUST be outgoing if I want to get my kids hooked on whatever it is I am saying. Having been in sales and marketing as well, being an introvert never would have worked.
Maybe it isn't abou "getting over" your introversion, but instead finding a job that works with your personality.
Best of luck to you!
@Merlin Everyone is crazy in their own way. If you step out with confidence, however you do it, people will be less likely to categorize you as odd. I think "normal" is controlling your crazy enough to allow others to enjoy their crazy.
i don't know maybe we are.
i know i enjoy my quiet time i also enjoy a close group of people. i talk to people but i don't get into deep conversations with others unless i feel safe or comfortable. I used to jump in all the time until someone stabbed me in the back now i'm more cautious about speaking up. as an introvert it took me a bit to speak to a few people last year at garf i also struggle at work where they expect you to be outgoing
I can and do speak to any and everyone. I'm in IT. It's part of the job. Interestingly enough, in my field, a large percentage of IT geeks are introverted. But we are forced, by business purposes, to deal with the population at large. Much of the time it's frikken hilarious watching the geeks trying to negotiate a common ground with a user, in conversation. But I digress.
I deal with people. All day long, every day. But I much prefer my own company, and the company of a very few people. And I think that's also part of why I like faire; I can get lost in the crowd. I don't consider being introverted a draw back or a handicap. Actually, looking at it from this perspective, those people that I allow to get that close to me are just that special.
Am I discriminated against for being introverted? I couldn't care less. If someone does discriminate against you, it's only because they aren't good enough to be in your circle.
I quite agree Rapier. I like my small select circle of friends and they like me. That's all that matters.
Am I a people person? I am friendly and happy when I meet and chat with people and my job requires that I present myself in an outgoing manner. Doesn't mean I have to put on a dog and pony show or tell them my life story. I'm private but welcoming. I do consider myself by nature more introvert than extrovert, but while I'm perfectly happy to work on my own or in my private life have adventures on my own, the right people along can make the journey or the work place even better. It's just not a requirement.
My point, unless you are an extreme introvert I believe you can make any position you wish into your own. Don't worry about how you measure up to an extroverted personality. Introverts have their own gifts to offer.
If you had a room full of crazy people wouldn't the norm be crazy?
Anyways Grov who you calling crazy, just cause my mom was locked away for 10 years dosn't mean i'm sane.
Oh and yes i do find when i'm my pirate self and i am in an enviroment i like i tend to have alot of fun. But then again give me a good book my cockatiel Rocket and i'm just as happy.
Quote from: Merlin the Elder on June 08, 2010, 05:12:58 AM
Quote from: Tink on June 07, 2010, 08:30:10 PM
what's this "normal" you speak of?
"Normal," friend Tink, is a state of mind, [...]
Nonsense! "Normal" is a setting on the wash maching.
As for the topic of the thread, I really don't know. I don't know which category I would fall into, either.
Society at large, I think, tends to encourage extrovertism, but I don't think that necessarily equals discrimination against introverts. I would guess that it has to do with the way social dynamics have changed (or not) from the earliest societies.
If everyone sits off by themselves, the whole group doesn't get very far, so you want lots of people who like being around and interacting with others. But that one guy who prefers to mostly be by himself probably makes a pretty good guard, sitting off at the edge of the firelight watching for intruders while everyone else parties.
How that translates into modern times? I'm not really sure. I know there are some things that require extroverted tendencies (but not necessarily people), and that there is a big push in the corporate world for everything to be done by teams, but I don't think that means introverts are discriminated against.
There is also a distinction between a personality and behaviour. I tend to be shy around people I don't know. But at the same time, put me in a job where I MUST talk to people, and I really enjoy that-as long as I get down time, as well. I'll talk to guests more than my co-workers, if I don't know them, though. *shrug*
I think I'll stop rambling now...
Quote from: Charlotte Rowan on June 06, 2010, 07:41:03 PM
Do you think our society discriminates against introverts?
Not in an active sense.
As someone who was sometimes painfully shy as a child, I would suggest it's more a matter that introverted behaviors can hold people back from taking advantages of certain experiences or opportunities as they come along. It's more like something that can be self-limiting, as opposed to outside discrimination.
Quote from: Kate on June 08, 2010, 06:52:13 AM
I think there are certain jobs that require someone to be an extrovert. If you are an introvert why would you WANT to get into an "extroverted" job where you are required to put on a happy "people-person" face and be outgoing? I think that would make someone, not an extrovert, but shy or not a people-person.
As a teacher I HAVE to be an extrovert. Even if I'm not feeling it one day I MUST be outgoing if I want to get my kids hooked on whatever it is I am saying. Having been in sales and marketing as well, being an introvert never would have worked.
Maybe it isn't abou "getting over" your introversion, but instead finding a job that works with your personality.
Best of luck to you!
This isn't about anything specific... it's actually a question that I saw on another forum and thought was interesting. For discussion, not because I necessarily feel discriminated against when trying to get a job.
But, I have experienced difficulty getting a job because of my introversion. I had to jump through a couple of extra hoops to get my current job. The reason I wanted it is because it's in a field I love an am passionate about - study abroad. It does require some extrovert things like making presentations, networking and committee work. I had to convince my interviewers, who knew I am an introvert because I was an internal candidate, that even though I don't PREFER to do those things, I'm certainly capable of it. Extroverts may not like to sit quietly in meetings, but they certainly can do so if it is required of their job!
Quote from: Rapier Half-Wit on June 08, 2010, 10:49:34 AM
I don't consider being introverted a draw back or a handicap.
I totally agree. In fact, I think it's a point in our favor! :) But I think society in general does tend to look at it as a handicap. I can't tell you how many times I've heard things like, "I don't really like my brother's new girlfriend. She's just kind of quiet and not very talkative" and wanted to say, "So it's better to be loud and a blabbermouth?"
@ Garath I wasn't referencing anyone in particular but you sound like you took it that way. Guilty conscience?
Quote from: Charlotte Rowan on June 08, 2010, 03:09:58 PM
But I think society in general does tend to look at it as a handicap. I can't tell you how many times I've heard things like, "I don't really like my brother's new girlfriend. She's just kind of quiet and not very talkative" and wanted to say, "So it's better to be loud and a blabbermouth?"
I've been this girlfriend. It gets tiresome having to explain over and over, yes, I'm enjoying myself, I like your family, I just feel like being quiet. Sometimes, I just don't have anything to say, and I'd rather not say anything than come up with fluff.
First, I want to apologize, Tink. I made the assumption that you were the person on the right in the picture, based on another post somewhere. I beg forgiveness...
I've been around people that you couldn't get a word in with a pry bar, and others that you can ask "Well! What do you think of this Eric Clapton concert??" "s'ok..." (** insert pregnant pause ** [wait] [wwwaaaiiittt] ** deliver newborn pause...full term **) We're all different.
Everyone has their own set of unique characteristics, and bound to have some good ones in there somewhere. I've done a lot of different things in my life, very few of which is interesting to anyone but those in that particular line of work. Many of my interests tend to be of a technical nature. But I have also been a performer most of my life, but pretty much a sideman, so I never had to get too extroverted! I hate going solo and get tremendous stage fright, but with the band, I'm just fine.
There's a comfort level we all reach and it can be difficult to break that imaginary barrier. The truth be known, however, being loud and obnoxious doesn't make you an extrovert, it merely makes you loud and obnoxious. In any social situation, I'd rather deal with someone that is a little shy than a loud boor.
Of course, then there's the line in the song by The Who "The Quiet One":
"I ain't quiet, everybody else is too loud"
http://www.lyricsdownload.com/who-the-the-quiet-one-lyrics.html
Quote from: Merlin the Elder on June 08, 2010, 05:15:32 PM
First, I want to apologize, Tink. I made the assumption that you were the person on the right in the picture, based on another post somewhere. I beg forgiveness...
LOL no, that's Pan (yeah, I know, Tink and Pan, but we had the names before we met.) No worries. Makes me wonder which post, though. :)
Kate, is right if your job requires you to be out going then I guess you must. I think all introverts are personable when the occasion arises, we all are very educated/learned. We just don't go out and put ourselves in the situation of talking with evryone in the world. We just aren't social butterflies if you will. More like solitary wolves, bears, and cats. When they come together you see they are very social, and it's usually only with a few other animals. But, I don't think it's an all out discrimination, I think employers are at least looking for people that are willing to interact with people, but the out going part means you'll do evrything in your power at work to please the customer, not so much as be social. It's all in the terminology really. So to be introverted or not to be introverted that is the question. I think most of us are a little of both, especially for us introverts to attend faire and interact with people it's fun, and we aren't over geeked up to see or talk with people.
"The meek shall inherit the Earth", but not the mineral rights.
I say, introverts need to speak up.
And I say that extroverts need to learn to pipe down. "Tis better to be quiet and be thought a dullard than to open your mouth and prove it."
Well spoken, Half-Wit! You just earned the other half! ;)
LOL thanks!
Quote from: Rapier Half-Wit on June 11, 2010, 08:31:06 AM
And I say that extroverts need to learn to pipe down. "Tis better to be quiet and be thought a dullard than to open your mouth and prove it."
:) :)
Quote from: Tink on June 08, 2010, 04:58:13 PM
Quote from: Charlotte Rowan on June 08, 2010, 03:09:58 PM
But I think society in general does tend to look at it as a handicap. I can't tell you how many times I've heard things like, "I don't really like my brother's new girlfriend. She's just kind of quiet and not very talkative" and wanted to say, "So it's better to be loud and a blabbermouth?"
I've been this girlfriend. It gets tiresome having to explain over and over, yes, I'm enjoying myself, I like your family, I just feel like being quiet. Sometimes, I just don't have anything to say, and I'd rather not say anything than come up with fluff.
And I'm sure you're perfectly kind, and interesting when you do have something to say. :) I've probably been this girlfriend too, or this new person at work, or this person in class. Glad to know there are people who understand. :)
Thanks, Charlotte :)
Absolutely. A huge part of career success and advancement is reliant on social connections/networking, etc. People that don't experience anxiety in social situations think it's just innocent shyness when in actuality it's a lot deeper than that. I remember being told by several of my friends how their first impression of me was way off due to my shyness and that they thought it came across as awkwardness or that I "didn't like" them.
No, shyness is just our way of sizing up the extroverts, once we find you acceptable to join in our conversations we'll let you know. I mean being quiet, that's what we were taught in school, don't speak until spoken too by extroverts. Ha! Ha! But, seriously, I say let the big mouths speak first then put yer 2 cents in. It's more fun that way.
Yes, I am one of those introverts too. There are worse things in the world. ;) At least until I get to know and trust someone. Growing up in a huge family, teasing mercilessly was our way of showing you were loved! :D
Are they discriminated against? I would say not so much as they arent heard like the extroverts are.
This is a very interesting thread for me. Like many of you guys, I'm "guilty" of the introvert behaviors, needing large amounts of alone time, etc. I do find that there's some merit to this question, though. Especially after things like Columbine and such, it seems like there's a good deal of suspicion in some quarters for people perceived as "loner" or "antisocial". I work with someone who is fond of saying things like "shyness isn't a characteristic, it's a symptom" from time to time. The pervading attitude I sense is mostly one of "it's your problem, and if you'd just act like everyone else you'll be happy" from people around me. As if the fact that I'm not an outgoing person proves that I'm unhappy!
Look at evryone in history that has followed evryone else, instead of what they knew was right in themselves. Most seem to be dead, or in jail.